Chad (00:00)
today we want to address a common pattern that so many couples experience. And it's this idea that what do you do when you feel like you're the only person that brings stuff up? This is such a common frustration for so many couples. So we want you to feel seen and heard, and we also want you to know you're not alone. Now, the good news, if you were to go to a doctor and they were to say, wow, I've worked with this over and over, there'd be a sense of hope there.

It's like, they're not just trying to figure this out or wing it, right? My whatever I'm dealing with isn't a mystery. And so today we are going to share with you a couple steps that support hundreds of other couples navigating this similar tension. And so Babe, why don't you get us started with just what are some of the things when we're dealing with this common dynamic that can support couples?

Sarah-Gayle (00:49)
Yeah, so we're going to address the one who feels like, ⁓ I'm always the one who's bringing things up. And we're also going to address the one who might feel like, ⁓ my spouse is always bringing things up to me because we interact differently depending on who we are. And so we're gonna look at three different areas and the first area will be awareness, and then just so you know, the next area will be perspective, and then the last one will be how. How do we have the conversation?

So if you are the person who typically is the one bringing something up, I know in our marriage that's typically me. And if that's you, I just want you to be a little bit introspective because sometimes we might bring things up because just top of mind, and we don't really know what the purpose is, we don't really know the the why behind it. Like, why am I actually bringing it up? What am I hoping to get? We just start sharing. We're just wanting to talk about something and get some kind of reaction, but we're not bringing clarity on

What we're actually wanting from our spouse, and so some introspection goes a long way to also recognize what are we focusing on? If we find ourselves constantly bringing up things that our spouse can change or our spouse can grow in, things that we don't like about our spouse, then it's recognizing: wait a minute, what am I fixing my eyes on? What am I focusing on? And I think of that scripture in Philippians where it talks about whatever is true, whatever is noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable. If anything is

excellent or praiseworthy think on such things because if we are constantly bringing up negative things to our spouse then that means we're not focused on all of those good things and that can be a little bit draining if it continues to happen.

Chad (02:30)
And so I want to take a moment and talk about the awareness on the person that's like the receiver. Yeah. Right. So in our marriage, that is me. At least more often than not, that is kind of our pattern. Yeah. And so for me, it's being aware of how am I responding or reacting. early on in our marriage, and maybe my more toxic pattern or unhealthy pattern is to be highly defensive. And so Sarah Gill will bring something up and I'll have an explanation or some level of defense.

That takes whatever this gap between the two of us and it grows. Right? So for me, my focus on awareness is how am I showing up? And if I were to show up.

As somebody who wants to close this gap, or or how would somebody show up if they wanted their spouse to feel heard? If I'm showing up that way, then that's probably good, right? But if I'm showing up significantly different than that, then my awareness will support me taking a step towards you. And I think a lot of this on all of these different things that we're gonna look at, there's an element of part of the awareness is identifying how do I take a step towards my spouse? Because ultimately,

We're on the same team. Yeah. So the sooner we can get to approaching any topic as teammates instead of opponents, then that changes it right there. And so part of this idea of awareness is recognizing like

How on these topics am I taking a step towards my spouse? Or is my initial initiation or is my initial reaction actually taking a step away or putting us kind of in that courtroom? We talk about that quite a bit, but where it's like, if I feel like I'm on trial, it spikes that defensive response even more. But that's something that I can kind of take ownership of. Yeah.

Sarah-Gayle (04:18)
Okay, so moving on to the the next part would be perspective. And if I am one who is bringing something up consistently to my spouse, then sometimes it's helpful just to pause and recognize that my spouse has a different perspective than I do Because we are different people, so we don't see through the same lens that our spouse sees through. And this is significant because if I can recognize

You know they just have a different perspective. Then I also don't assume that they're not bringing things up because they don't care. And I hear this a lot with my couples. It's like, well, I'm the one who always has to bring something up. He sees, and I say he because stereotypic, this is the ladies, although it can be both, right? Yeah. But typically, it's like they see what's going on, they know we have a problem here, yet they don't say anything. So they must not care. I'm the one who's gonna have to bring it up yet again. Yeah, and when we

Recognize, they just have a different perspective. they might not see, they might not even care They don't need to qualify themselves to us, but we can always ask and we can always be assertive and bring it up if it's bothering us or if it's on our mind.

Chad (05:29)
there's so many of the couples that we coach, this idea of the perspective that you're talking about, it's not just their individual frustration, right? It's the judgment that they're attaching to the assumption of what their spouse's perspective. Exactly. So it's not that you don't bring stuff up, it's that you see that there's a problem and my narrative about you is that you don't even care. Yeah. And so it kind of like stacks, it almost makes this like

this source of hurt or frustration and it amplifies it to potentially even bigger. And so often, traditionally the husband but the the other spouse or the other partner isn't matching that same level of intensity. Yeah. And then this is where

They end up off topic. Yeah. Because then the other spouse is defending that's not what I think, that's not what I feel, I'm not doing that. And now they miss each other. Yeah. And so this idea of the perspective is so important. Your perspective matters. And so does your spouses. Yeah. I love the visual of like a Venn diagram where you have these two unique circles and there's some element of overlap. When I think about a marriage, two people.

Depending on the topic, there may be very, very little overlap between the the the circles. Yeah. And where I see couples

create extra tension is when they focus or when their perspective is on the most extreme, the f the parts of the circle that are the furthest apart. And it's like, well yeah, if if we're trying to connect where we're the furthest apart, that's gonna be hard. Yeah. But is there some overlap? And typically on most topics, there's some overlap couples can find. Yeah. But this idea of the perspective of actually even wanting to explore or find it is needed. One of my favorite phrases is this element of the both and.

So a both and can be Sarah Gale shares her perspective on a topic.

And I share some of my ideas around a topic and then we look for the overlap. Right. And so this is this element that maybe a small tangent here, but I think sometimes where you and I get conflict is almost those moments where we forget that we're different. And I kind of go into the conversation like generally just assuming we're gonna be on the same page. Yeah. And then we aren't and I'm like shocked. Yeah. Or I'm surprised or I'm caught off guard. But that's like

I didn't show up or I lost sight that we're different people and we're gonna have different perspectives. Right.

Sarah-Gayle (07:57)
Yeah, and when we see that as negative, that we're different people, then we start focusing on the negative. you were just talking about something like that earlier today as far as there's so much good in a relationship, but what is it that we're choosing to focus on? How did you put that? I really liked how you put it.

Chad (08:13)
there's this idea that most of the time there's something we can be grateful for and there's something we can be critical about. And so it comes down to like almost a little bit more the awareness. Yeah. Like which one am I choosing to highlight? Yeah. You know, so I was working with a husband and a wife, and here they are getting marriage coaching to work on communication and connection. And all the wife can talk about is that he didn't do it earlier. And so it's brutal, right? Because here

They're finally in the environment, and I really wish they would have reached out. And my heart goes out to her. She's been wanting to get support and help for years. Yeah. Well, now they are. But she's stuck that they didn't do it earlier. And so now there's a little bit of a wall, right, that we're working to lower so that they can just show up and do the thing. So it's like, you know, now we finally did it, and it's not good enough because we should have done it earlier. Right. And I think this is something in our humanity that we all have to wrestle with. This desire of things.

being done differently, but when we go back to this idea of perspective, it's like creating space for each other.

Sarah-Gayle (09:16)
When we first start working with couples, we often read a paragraph that is focused on empathy. And it says something like, just like you, your spouse has hopes and dreams they still long to pursue. Just like you, your spouse wants to be loved and respected. And it's a really powerful moment for our couples because it causes them to recognize that, yeah, let's create space. Like my spouse is so similar to me. The very essence of what I'm wanting and what I'm craving, desiring

longing for, they feel the same way.

Chad (09:49)
Yeah, I mean there's this reality that a lot of us want very similar things. We just might express it differently. Yes. And so this is where this idea of the perspective is important. Because oftentimes we can get an agreement, but not if we say, well, you have to express that desire the way I express that desire. This is where this element of the perspective and the both and can support us.

Sarah-Gayle (10:11)
the last thing I'll say on this is many of our couples, the ones who initiate and who bring things up all the time, they will bring something up and they'll expect or think that because they brought it up, it needs to be done. What they brought up is what needs to happen. And you can see that in conversation in sessions, because it's pretty rigid as far as like, well, I I said that this mattered to me. So why wasn't it done? Or why can't it be done?

This goes back into perspective, recognizing, as strongly as you feel about something, your spouse could feel the complete opposite about something. And then it goes back to teamwork. So what do we do? We need to work as a team to figure out, okay, where will we land when it comes to this issue? And there's this scripture in Romans 12, 10, and it says, be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourself. Wow.

This is what we often face in marriage because of the different perspectives. And what we're left with is surrender and really obedience to Christ, as far as what is his word saying. And in this regard, it's like, hey, let me consider you above myself. Let me honor you above myself. It's not about me fighting to get what I want. Just because I put a target out there and said this is what I would appreciate, we're gonna work as a team.

Chad (11:27)
And so kind of recap where we are so far, when there's this element of one person's feeling the burden or the loneliness of bringing things up, we talked about awareness. And so for both people, recognizing what is the pattern and how can I take a step towards my spouse. The second thing was perspective. Am I creating space for my spouse's perspective in a meaningful way? And the third thing that we want to talk about is the how.

these are meant to be guides and support, not laws. But the reality is our how can be helpful or our how can be hurtful. And those can be the two extreme polar opposites. The more we can step into helpful around the how, it becomes easier to work together.

Sarah-Gayle (12:12)
Yeah.

as a person who is prone to bring things up consistently, first of all, I don't wanna villainize us completely, you know, in the sense of we're always bringing something up, because that's proactive. If you're bringing something up, well done. That's one of our mindsets at Hope Relentless, which is proactive versus reactive. so fantastic. How we bring up the issues though, that is so significant, and that's everything. That is the minutia communication. When we look at different research, it's all

About how are couples bringing things up that makes the difference. And so it might feel a little rigid initially, it might feel a bit unnatural, and that's okay. That's a good thing because that means We're starting to consider how are we approaching someone who's completely different from us. We've already talked about the different perspectives. That requires some tact. We can't just say what we want, when we want, how we want.

Chad (13:04)
And so on a really practical level, some common things that support the how, the first one's ownership. This is why in almost all communication studies you hear about the power of an I statement on personal responsibility or ownership. It's simply sharing my thoughts or my feelings, but I'm taking ownership for myself. Another thing can be a positive target. So if you approach your spouse with ownership and something that would move forward in a positive way, we see this consistently.

supports operating as teammates. Anything else that you want to highlight on the how that has been impacted

Sarah-Gayle (13:39)
So something for us that has been super impactful and also our couples would be a check-in. Yeah. we've talked about this, I think on different episodes where we're just checking in, hey, is this a good time to talk to you about the kids in their school? And it's not just jumping into conversation because number one, they might not be in a place where they can be present for that conversation. Oftentimes we just start talking and we don't realize that they literally are not listening. And so

It's not a malicious thing, they literally don't even know what conversation's happening, and so then we'll connect later and say, Yeah, you remember we were talking about, you know, And it's like, no, I have no idea what you're saying we never took the time to get our spouse's attention. And what I tell couples is make sure you're making eye contact when you are bringing something up, because a lot of times we just say stuff out into the open, we think they hear it, but that they don't hear it,

Chad (14:34)
Yeah, I mean, especially today, there's so many screens. Yeah. That so often, whether it's a computer, a phone, a TV, that we're distracted a lot. And so if somebody's trying to share something and didn't actually grab that person's attention, they're maybe just being like, yeah, okay, and she, you know. ⁓ I I think another thing when I think about the how, and what you're talking about is we've seen couples have great success, like what you're talking about, clarifying or creating ⁓

parts within their week that is the check-in. Right? Where it's like, hey, we know we're gonna try and check in with each other on Sunday afternoons to maybe celebrate, but also to bring up like, hey, over this last week, anything that feels unresolved, anything that just got dismissed on a busy Thursday night, whereas now we might actually have the space or the time. Because I think one of the things when we think about the how is I think about a business setting, right? Businesses are famous for creating

Meetings with purpose. And so this meeting has a particular agenda. And because it has an agenda, you know who to invite. People know what are they bringing to the meeting. And then we kind of have a goal as a team. Who are the people that are here and what are we trying to accomplish? If we can bring some of those principles into our conversations and marriage, we will reap the benefit of this, of like who needs to be a part, what is the goal? It makes it so much easier to operate as teammates and move forward on something.

I want to talk about the how from the perspective of the person who is the responder or the reactor. And so for me, oftentimes

My unhealthy how is defensiveness. Right. And so, well, I need a better target. I need a better goal. And so on a practical level, my how can be if Sarah Gill brings something up, one, I need to shift my mindset to like an attitude of gratitude. That the spouse that brings something up is creating an opportunity that is so important as a couple. Creating opportunities to come back together where we've become maybe divided or

maybe just not connected or not in alignment.

Sarah-Gayle (16:46)
Because otherwise in this scenario for you and I, I just hold it in, right? If I don't feel like there's been a space created for me to bring something up and then it just builds and it builds and there's a greater disconnect.

Chad (16:57)
Yeah, or idilify you, right? I I position you as you're the nag. Yeah. Right? Like, ⁓ here's complete and it's like just we're not gonna have a good conversation if my undertone is that my wife is a critical nag. Yeah. And her undertone is that I am a passive, disengaged husband. I want my wife to feel heard. So my how is how do I acknowledge what she brought up? How do I recognize

Her voice might be the thing that helps us get back into alignment and feel like we're actually working through this together. There's so much of our communication that really comes down to our heart posture. What is our heart posture towards each other? And in full transparency, I think this is where our individual faith has such a significant impact in our marriage, whether we want to call it direct or indirect. When I spend time with God,

I show up more equipped to be a better spouse. Yeah. Right? Whereas because when I'm spending time with God, I'm not having to pretend to be kind or pretend to

Be patient. I just I'm the fruit of the spirit starts to overflow and I am those things. So if I am kind and my wife brings something up, it shapes the way. Like I don't have to try so hard. Yeah. Right? And so this is that element where our individual faith helps shape our heart posture towards each other.

Sarah-Gayle (18:27)
Yeah.

with that, it's an understanding that all the conversations we have in our marriage won't be roses and sunshine. No. There are going to be things that your spouse is not pleased with. And this goes into how, how are we communicating those things? But if your spouse feels that they can come to you with difficult emotions, and especially if they're using that I statement, right? It's like, hey, you know, I'm feeling this way, and we're not blaming, we're not criticizing, we're not doing those things. But if your spouse can come to you,

That's amazing, just like Chad said, it is such a blessing, and it also really speaks to the maturity and the depth of your relationship because that means you can talk about hard things, you can do hard things, and you can still end up on the other side together as a flourishing team. And at the end of those tough conversations, you will have an insight and a deeper awareness of where your spouse is and also what would help. We don't want to continue perpetuating the negative things that are going on in the relationship just because.

There's been walls that have been built that we can't go through, and so certain things are off limits. It's counterintuitive to the teamwork that we're talking about, to being on the same page, to having connection, because we all want that, right? Like that's the dream where it's like I just want to be known and I want to be seen, but then we don't do the hard conversation or the the more tense conversation, I'll say, because we we don't want to be uncomfortable, we don't want it to go poorly, and so I just want to.

encourage you listening, there are skills as you are applying the things we're talking about, you can have that hard conversation. I want you to recognize this is a hard conversation. Let's go. That means at the end of it, we are going to get closer together. We're going to be that much more connected because we took the time to have the conversation.

Chad (20:14)
And I loved what you said in there, babe. You you talk about the word skills. And it's amazing because when we're coaching couples, like as people, we develop skills in different areas of our life constantly. Yeah.

Common is professionally, right? People are growing in skills in their profession. Well, it's so important to be doing that inner marriage and so inner communication. How am I doing in my skills to bring something up? How am I doing in my skills to respond or how am I reacting to my spouse? These are skills. The great thing is these are learned. So if currently this pattern is really hurtful and toxic, the good news is it doesn't have to stay that way. And so this is part of the work that we

Do at Hope Relentless, we come alongside and we coach couples and help them develop these core skills in a way where there's safety, where there's support, where there's progress. But there is an element at times where like we have to mature past, like I want to act immature and selfish.

And experience the fruit of a marriage where there's where it's not that. Right. And it's like, no, there's times where like the solution is I need to mature. Yeah. Because I want a more mature fruit. Yeah.

Sarah-Gayle (21:30)
we reap what we sow. If we want to experience the good and the connection, then we want to sow things that promote the good and the connection. And I want to go back because speaking of skills, you reminded me, when it comes to the how we engage, I think it's important on the person who is typically the reactive one, receiving the the conversation,

it's important for them to validate. And we've talked about validation before where it's just kind of reflecting back, just making sure you're tracking with your partner. That is part of the how when it rather than defensiveness. Chad mentioned that he can be defensive at times. what has been helpful for us is when he's been present and hasn't had an agenda to respond per se, but to just make sure am I getting what you're saying?

That's that validation. And then the last part there is we had mentioned the person who's proactive who typically brings something up to check in. What the other person what we want to encourage you to do is if it's not a good time, you know, your spouse checks in, is like, hey, is it a good time to talk about the kids and their school? If it's not a good time, then you can say no, like that's great. If if it's not a good time, we don't want to force a conversation. We don't we don't need to force conversations, but when is a good time? And then let's make sure we come back.

And have that conversation. With many couples, they have the first part where it's like it's not a good time, but then they don't come back. And that breaks trust in the rhythm of a conversation. Because if someone thinks, if if I say, okay, cool, let's pause it, let's come back later, we never come back, I'm going to be less likely, as the proactive one, to really want that. And the next time my husband says it, I'm heck no, I'm I'm trying to talk now. And when we force conversations, you listening, you already

know what happens when conversations are forced and so we don't want that but let's make sure we are coming up with a plan the two of you you're a team you can figure these things out what would work for you two to come back to a conversation come up with a plan be consistent with it

Chad (23:30)
The last thing I want to share before we close today's podcast is this element of building a rhythm of celebrating the baby steps. Because wherever you are, there's an opportunity for growth. Yeah. But in my experience, in my own marriage and in coaching marriages, we don't go from an area being a weakness to a strength overnight. And so maybe you're at a two out of ten is your confidence level of bringing up difficult topics. Or maybe you're here and you're like, yes, that's me. I feel alone and fatigued.

Maybe I feel like my spouse perceives me as a nag or critical, and really I just want us to get in alignment. And so as you're going through this journey with your spouse, celebrate the little things. Maybe typically a conversation falls apart instantly, and maybe you make it five or ten minutes. It's this may seem like a joke, but it's like, man, celebrate. Like we got further, we got further in before it fell apart, right?

Because we want to create an environment where the progress is celebrated. Because when that it happens, then we both have an interest in continuing to develop those skills and show up. If I'm making a lot of effort and then Sarah Gale still criticizes me, I can create that false narrative that what I do doesn't matter. So this is what celebration does is it reinforces for both of us that our growth matters and that we see it. And what I've seen is when couples create that environment together.

Yeah. Then they both have an incentive and a desire and a natural passion to continue to learn. Yeah. Which just makes it like unlocks everything. It doesn't mean they get there overnight, but they start to see the possibilities. Yeah. And that's what I love when when couples turn that corner.

Sarah-Gayle (25:11)
Yeah, I love that. And what goes hand in hand with that is perseverance. Don't give up. Yeah. You guys have what it takes. You're able to figure out what works for your relationship. So you're not going to be perfect. You're not robots. And so when you mess up, because you will, don't give up. Get back up, keep trying. You're on the same team. See your partner as an asset, as your greatest resource. They are not the enemy. And celebrate, just like what Chad was saying. All right, as always,

we are cheering you on.