WEBVTT 00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:04.559 All right. 00:00:04.719 --> 00:00:06.000 Well, welcome back to the follow-up. 00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:12.080 I'm your happening host, Pastor Ryan, and I'm joined by Pastors Jeff and Arlen. 00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:12.720 What's up, you guys? 00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:13.519 How are you doing today? 00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:14.640 I'm doing good. 00:00:14.960 --> 00:00:16.079 Fantastic. 00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:17.600 Wonderful. 00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:24.640 We had the privilege of closing out the series on Jonah, getting to preach on Jonah chapter four. 00:00:25.039 --> 00:00:27.280 And you guys preached on this chapter before? 00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:31.359 Uh with student ministry like three years ago. 00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:32.000 Yeah. 00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:33.600 But it's been a minute. 00:00:34.159 --> 00:00:37.759 I did a sermon on the whole book, like a few years ago. 00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:42.799 And so we just like we just basically did like a flyover like the entire book. 00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:48.719 And so yeah, we didn't we didn't like hunker down into the passage to the specific verses like we got to in this one. 00:00:48.799 --> 00:00:50.960 So yeah, this was this was fun. 00:00:51.280 --> 00:00:52.000 That was fun. 00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:57.840 I have been through Jonah a handful of times in youth ministry and in big church stuff and never gotten in there to preach on this passage. 00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:07.439 So and the other thing is that like I was looking at my kids' storybook Bibles, like a lot of them don't have this chapter, uh, don't have this part of the story where Jonah's like all mad, you know? 00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:11.040 Um, it cuts it off after three. 00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:12.079 Right, right. 00:01:12.319 --> 00:01:18.959 So um, you know, we we all kind of talked about it, but there's an abrupt ending here for the book, ends with a rhetorical question from God. 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:22.319 Um, should I not also care about the Ninevice and also many animals? 00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:23.599 That's how that's how it ends. 00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:28.079 Um so as you studied, as you learned, why do you think the book ends this way? 00:01:28.159 --> 00:01:29.599 What what do you think is going on there? 00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:36.640 Uh one thing that I said when I was preaching through, I I kind of posed the question for all the questions that God's asking, right? 00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:38.879 Because he asked twice, is it right for you to be angry? 00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:40.959 And then he asks this question at the end. 00:01:41.200 --> 00:01:43.599 And I lovingly just challenged us. 00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:45.680 I think God's also asking us these questions, right? 00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:47.920 I said it doesn't end with Jonah's answer. 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:55.359 Uh, but Jonah, I'm sure, did answer, but we don't need to see his answer because I think that this is the ending of Jonah 4's asking directly asking you that question. 00:01:55.439 --> 00:02:00.640 I think that that's what scripture is trying to get you to think um and and get you to process. 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:08.240 So I think it ends more on the ambiguous side because it's asking us to actually consider our own hearts in that same way. 00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:10.159 It's a good call. 00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:54.800 And I yeah, I think there's a there's a confrontive nature there where um I think you see throughout the story of scripture, God's people are, I guess, confronted with how much they tend to prioritize themselves, like the just the in terms of being like the privileges of being within the covenant versus seeing their role as like actually it's cosmic, it's bigger, it's much bigger than than just, hey, let me just sit here and and um enjoy the privileges of being in the Lord and in right covenant with God, but it's also an opportunity, I think, that um uh to recognize, even as the Israelites would have been reading this, you know, a generation later, um, like their own hearts, their own posture towards the nations. 00:02:54.960 --> 00:03:00.960 Um so yeah, I I mean I think that in, you know, Arlen, you said the same thing I did in terms of like the the mirror. 00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:06.960 I think this is the mirror aspect, like where it's like it's it wants you to to answer the question. 00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:09.919 Like, and then so we don't get to see Jonah's answer. 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:12.159 Um, because it probably it wouldn't have been good. 00:03:12.319 --> 00:03:13.599 I mean, I think it I don't know. 00:03:13.680 --> 00:03:20.400 I mean, maybe I have a bad like opinion of Jonah, but it I don't picture him going, you know what, you're right, Lord. 00:03:20.479 --> 00:03:23.439 Like, I'm I'm wicked, you know, you were merciful to me. 00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:25.039 I should have compassion on them. 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:27.360 Thank you for saving the Ninevehites. 00:03:27.439 --> 00:03:30.479 Like, I'm so grateful that you did that for them and for me. 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:35.120 Like, I just I don't know that there was uh any of us are set up for that response from him. 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:38.879 Um yeah, but yeah, yeah, absolutely. 00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:43.280 I think it is meant to cause us to reflect, the original readers, the Israelites to reflect as well. 00:03:43.360 --> 00:03:44.560 So just interesting. 00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:52.960 I I love noticing those unique kind of literary things in the Bible that um, you know, when you're younger and you're first exploring the Bible, you don't always pick up on that. 00:03:53.120 --> 00:04:01.919 But uh God, God in his wisdom has given us um a diversity of kinds of literature and and it does different things, it impacts us and it acts on us in different ways. 00:04:02.080 --> 00:04:03.360 So it's very cool. 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:15.680 Um, I wanted to ask, you know, sometimes we prep for messages, we spend time reading and discussing, you know, we we read this much or we study this much, and we gotta condense it down, you know, we gotta like narrow it into that that window. 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:21.360 So was there anything that you guys felt like you left uh, you know, left on the cutting room floor, any little tidbits? 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:31.439 I I had one that I wanted to share, but I don't know if you guys had anything that you're like, ooh, this is an insight that really struck me, or something that um I learned, you know, afresh studying the passage this week. 00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:37.600 Um I I kind of mentioned it, but I didn't zoom in on it. 00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:40.800 The fact that God asked twice, is it right to be angry? 00:04:41.199 --> 00:04:46.000 Um I think that there's uh I I heard a long time ago, uh repetition is important. 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:49.839 So if you see something in scripture more than once, it's actually a really important thing. 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:55.920 And so for um for God to be asking Jonah twice, is it right for you to be angry? 00:04:56.079 --> 00:04:58.399 And he's asking about two different things in that way. 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:01.920 And so he's asking, is it right for you to be angry about the the Ninevehes? 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:05.120 Isn't it right for you to be angry about the about the plant? 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:12.800 Um, and so it's a whole it's a whole in like intensely deep dive into the heart of Jonah in that. 00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:23.600 And I didn't want to you could you could rabbit trail in a million different ways in that, but I think the fact that God his response twice is is it right for you to be angry? 00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:26.240 Yeah, that's so good. 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:28.720 Yeah, I you know, there were two things I think. 00:05:28.879 --> 00:05:36.160 One occurred to me later, actually, I was listening, Arlen, I was listening to your sermon, and the fact that he's he doesn't ask, is it right to be angry? 00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:38.480 He is it right for you to be angry? 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:43.120 Like, like, I mean, there's a like a there's a personal nature of like, Jonah, really? 00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:53.279 Like you for you to be angry, you who have been extended mercy and grace and are in a situation that you're only here because I showed that to you. 00:05:53.439 --> 00:05:58.720 Um, I think that that piece of like it's not just abstract, is it right to be angry in this situation? 00:05:58.879 --> 00:06:15.439 But then I didn't get to to focus a whole lot, and I'm sure there's a lot of like hyperlinks, you know, right as you like to say with uh with Exodus 34, like in like the the times where we see that show up throughout the old testament because it's it's such a repeated phrase. 00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:19.920 I know Bible projects done, you know, um entire series, you know, dissecting that. 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:31.680 And so I'm sure there's some real applicability of like him mentioning that and and when did we see that earlier, and and some of those uh aspects that I I felt like I just didn't have the time to really hunker down. 00:06:31.759 --> 00:06:34.560 I'm sure there's there's a lot of like tussle. 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:35.680 Uh yeah, what's up? 00:06:36.079 --> 00:06:37.439 I touched on it briefly. 00:06:37.600 --> 00:06:44.800 I was like, hey, in this moment, he's quoting it back to him, and then basically I'd I pointed out like uh imagine saying these things to God. 00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:49.680 Like imagine being in that position and like I knew you were too good, God. 00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:52.000 I knew this because you you told me this. 00:06:52.079 --> 00:06:57.199 And so again, there's a million sermon illustrations, and and there's a million ways to dive into that. 00:06:57.279 --> 00:06:59.120 But yeah, that actually is 34 piece. 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:01.439 Yeah, very much couldn't dive. 00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:02.000 Yeah. 00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:08.480 So one thing, one thing that uh jumped out at me, I just felt like it was gonna take us too far afield, and I'd lose most of the people. 00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:11.759 But Jonah builds a shelter for himself. 00:07:11.839 --> 00:07:13.439 Maybe you guys studied this or you saw this too. 00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:16.079 He builds a shelter, and it's the word sukkah. 00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:22.000 Uh, the festival of booths that Israel celebrates is sukkot, which is the plural form of sukkah. 00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:25.120 So he builds himself a booth there up on the hill. 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:34.800 And at least one commentary I read said there's probably an illusion here that you're supposed to see Jonah is sitting up there and he's kind of celebrating the festival of booths himself. 00:07:34.959 --> 00:07:42.639 And the festival of booths was meant to like look back to Israel's deliverance from slavery, so their own salvation. 00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:48.480 And in Zechariah 14, Zechariah gets a vision of the eschatological like age, the new creation. 00:07:48.639 --> 00:07:56.800 And part of what God projects into the future is there's gonna come a day when all the nations of the earth are gonna come and celebrate the festival of booths with God's people. 00:07:56.959 --> 00:08:03.839 So there's this like ingathering of the nations, people from every tribe telling nations doing the festival of booths and celebrating God's deliverance. 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:09.680 So that festival is meant to be a backwards looking to their previous salvation and a forwards looking to what God's gonna do. 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:16.480 And here Jonah is up on a hill, mad that God's delivered the Ninevehes, and he's up there celebrating by himself. 00:08:16.639 --> 00:08:20.800 And you're you're supposed to be like, oh man, it's so so. 00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:28.000 I'm like, so I saw that, but I was like, man, just take too much, take too much time, you know, and um really uh an interesting connection. 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:29.839 Yeah, those rabbit trails. 00:08:29.920 --> 00:08:40.080 I mean, even the fact that he built the shelter and his shelter wasn't good enough to cover him, and then God had to give him a plant anyway, you know, like like the fact that there's there's a million things to even look into that. 00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:44.320 Just the fact that Jonah was so inadequate in so many ways, his shelter even fell out. 00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:46.159 I know, I know, I know. 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:59.200 Well, so one thing that we all, you know, kind of drove home a little bit is you have this theme in Jonah that he loves mercy for himself, loves God's grace for himself, but he wants justice for the Ninevehes. 00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:04.320 It's like uh, you know, you guys said, you know, basically like grace for me or mercy for me, justice for thee. 00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:07.519 Um, so I mean, let's do a little bit of self-reflection here. 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:11.360 What are the ways that that shows up in in our lives? 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:24.480 How do you how have you seen that, whether that's just personally or people you've interacted with, um, where we can fall into that rut of, man, I I love God's mercy for me, but you know, wanting to see others held to account. 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:25.360 What does that look like? 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:28.639 So that's a good question. 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:31.919 I I, you know, uh there's a little bit of an example. 00:09:32.320 --> 00:09:34.399 It was, it's not necessarily a straight one. 00:09:34.559 --> 00:09:39.120 We had this uh project in seminary where we had, it was called a grace paper. 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:44.000 And essentially people got to uh it was an extra credit assignment. 00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:50.799 And so you could opt in and get extra credit and it would increase and give you, you know, kind of a little bit higher standing in the class. 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:53.360 And so you didn't have to do it, but you could do it. 00:09:53.519 --> 00:10:00.240 And so what ended up happening, you know, probably half the class did the paper and a number of me included, I didn't do the paper. 00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:06.240 And then when it came time to turn the paper in, everybody got credit for for having done the paper. 00:10:06.559 --> 00:10:14.000 And you should have seen just the the look of on the faces of the people who did the paper, you know, and they worked hard. 00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:19.600 It was, I mean, it wasn't a huge paper, it was four or five, you know, like term paper on the subject of grace. 00:10:19.759 --> 00:10:26.879 And they were really like just, you know, there's those fleshy moments of like being frustrated, like, no, I earned this and you're getting it. 00:10:27.039 --> 00:10:29.200 Like, you know, just the frustration of it. 00:10:29.279 --> 00:10:32.399 Um, I was super happy because I'm like, man, I did nothing. 00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:34.559 And I got credit for having written that paper. 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:41.759 My roommate was not happy, like having stayed up late and you know, and and toiled through just really wrestling through that. 00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:45.919 But still, there's we both like got to enjoy the the fruits of that. 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:51.679 And I think that there is that it's the horizontal aspect that's so difficult at times. 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:54.799 And and maybe it is just that we think we've earned it. 00:10:54.960 --> 00:11:01.440 Like we think, oh, you know, like I I know me, I know my story, I know all the the reasons why I do the things I do. 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:04.960 Um, and and God understands that, and that's why he gave me grace. 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:11.519 But you, even though you may have done the same things, I don't, I don't even stop to consider what what may be going on with you. 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:24.000 Um, and so it's just, I don't know, I I deserve it because I have all these extenuating circumstances and things going on in my life, but but you, even though you did the same thing, you you should get, you know, the consequences of your actions. 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:31.679 Um you're saying like deep down, deep down, there's a part of us that believes that we deserve salvation or we deliver we deserve God's mercy. 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:42.399 Like there's a there's if we really were to be gut level honest, there's a part of us that's like, yeah, I mean, God had to be gracious with me, but like I'm also kind of, you know, I kind of deserve what I'm getting. 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:44.879 I think that's I think that's pretty natural though. 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:47.279 Like if you ask most people, are you a good person? 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:49.120 What's our answer gonna be? 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:57.039 I think most people are gonna say, Yeah, I, you know, I I I uh don't commit that many crimes or I don't do that many bad things, you know. 00:11:57.120 --> 00:12:00.799 I think I think the vast majority of people probably see themselves as good. 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:15.679 Um and and that's that's a hard reality when when confronted with the gospel that like, hey, uh whether or not you did something that was good or kind, like you're still separated from the Lord and you're still you're still need to be to be saved. 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:23.519 I think where I notice it the most is sometimes I think um from from like Christian to non-Christian, right? 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:28.240 This like, hey, you are doing wicked stuff. 00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:32.879 The Bible says that that's not good, so therefore justice and all this stuff. 00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:38.080 And so I think that that's where I see it a lot, um, or even from brother to brother within the church, right? 00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:45.759 Like uh just almost like an abusive level of accountability, like, hey, I'm gonna come after you in justice. 00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:58.399 And I'm not saying that that it happens all the time, but those are areas where it's where it can pop up, um, where we want grace for ourselves, um, and then we look at somebody else and we're not super willing to extend it. 00:12:58.559 --> 00:13:08.080 I use the example of imagine you're getting you get pulled over, the cop lets you go, and then somebody speeds past you the next day, and you're like, I hope there's a cop to go get them. 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:11.759 And we just that's just kind of an innate human reality. 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:12.559 Yeah. 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:14.080 Can you imagine? 00:13:14.559 --> 00:13:15.360 Oh, sorry, go ahead. 00:13:15.759 --> 00:13:16.080 No, go ahead. 00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:16.639 No, you're good. 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:16.960 You're good. 00:13:17.039 --> 00:13:17.440 Can you imagine? 00:13:17.679 --> 00:13:22.480 I was just saying, can you imagine God coming back and going, Oh, oh, Jonah, you want justice. 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:23.120 You know what? 00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:26.399 Let me let me just throw you back into the sea and let you drown. 00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:28.720 Like, like you really want justice? 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:30.960 Okay, we can be all about justice. 00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:32.559 Let's let's just rewind the tape. 00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:39.840 You know, let's go back and think at that point be like, okay, yeah, no, I'll I'll take I'll take the grace, I'll take the mercy that I don't. 00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:41.039 Absolutely. 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:54.320 I was really impacted um by a a teaching and book a number of years ago that really focused on um kind of fruit to root, or sorry, root to fruit, you know, like, okay, there's a root in my heart, and then how is the fruit coming out of my life? 00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:59.759 And nailing it back down to these like four, you know, statements about God that I do or don't believe in. 00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:03.679 Um, the one that's like, God is gracious, so I don't have to prove myself. 00:14:03.919 --> 00:14:10.240 The fruit that I don't believe that is like I'm angry and I'm not patient with others. 00:14:10.399 --> 00:14:17.039 Um, I am judgmental, I'm quick to like be harsh towards other people or to make snap judgments. 00:14:17.120 --> 00:14:31.519 And what that reveals about my heart is that like somewhere deep down inside, I believe that like I am good enough or I have, you know, um I would pass the test, you know, if if if judgment came, and that like I'm not living in grace. 00:14:31.679 --> 00:14:34.559 Um, so that other people should have to live up to my expectations. 00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:40.480 Um and I I don't need to be patient and gracious with others because I'm I'm good enough, you know. 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:43.039 Um, and so I I look for that in my own heart. 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:55.120 Like there are times where I'm again harsh towards people, overly critical, and it's like, oh boy, that just reveals like I don't uh I haven't I believe, but I don't yet fully believe, you know, in in God's grace. 00:14:55.279 --> 00:14:59.440 Um certainly not living into it for sure. 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:14.159 Um I want to talk a little bit about uh justice because you know some people might hear this and be like, okay, I I see God's grace, I get that, but also like the Ninevites, and and each of you pointed this out, you know, the Ninevites were bad people. 00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:18.080 Like they they mutilated people, they tortured people. 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:23.120 Not saying that every person in the city was doing that, but they were completely a wicked society. 00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:28.159 And um, many of the people who were spared from God's judgment probably had done, you know, heinous things. 00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:31.759 So how do we like how do you guys hold this intention? 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:34.879 Do you do you pray for God's judgment ever on other people? 00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:38.080 Is it okay to pray for God's judgment against other people? 00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:39.039 Is it never okay? 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:39.440 I don't know. 00:15:39.519 --> 00:15:41.039 What what do you what do you say? 00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:46.639 Yeah, that's a I think that's a hard question to to start to wrestle with. 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:49.759 Um for me, here's where here's where I land. 00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:56.799 Um I really just pray for God's will in a lot of areas, and and I trust that He is gonna He's gonna move through that. 00:15:56.960 --> 00:16:01.120 Um I do think that we should, as Christians, call out wrongdoing. 00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:01.679 I do. 00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:14.080 I just think I think when we see something that is not right, or especially within within a body of believers or within something, I do think we have an obligation to speak up against and and say, hey, this isn't good, this is not of the Lord. 00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:16.159 I think that we have that responsibility. 00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:25.519 Um, but I think on the same level of responsibility that we have for accountability, we should also really desire restoration and reconciliation just as equal, right? 00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:29.039 And so, so should I call out when something is not right? 00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:33.440 Absolutely, but then should I be willing to really want to walk with somebody and restore them in the Lord? 00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:34.159 Absolutely. 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:42.320 And so that's a that's a hard tension to hold because sometimes we just want to call out the bad and not help them move into what the Lord wants. 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:47.759 And so uh, yes, we should want the we should want what is righteous because that's what the Lord wants. 00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:56.399 And we should want what is good and what is what is holy, but also at the same time understand that we are not the definitive decider of what that is. 00:16:56.480 --> 00:16:57.600 Uh, that's the Lord. 00:16:57.759 --> 00:17:00.480 And so operating within the will of the Lord. 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:14.079 It's like because I'm I'm not holy, like I'm not sinless, I might fool myself into thinking that I can righteously call for judgment for other people when actually like it too quickly gets twisted into me thinking I'm righteous. 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:14.480 Yeah. 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:21.680 And um kind of like kind of like everybody thinks that uh, you know, like it's it's possible to have righteous anger. 00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:25.920 That's true, that is true, but everybody thinks that their anger is righteous, you know? 00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:31.359 And it's like probably most of the time, my my anger, my anger at least, is not righteous. 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:33.920 Um, but I could trick myself into thinking it is, you know. 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:35.039 Um yeah. 00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:36.640 Uh Jeff, what were you gonna say? 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:48.640 Yeah, I mean, I think uh I guess uh there's a tension there when we have like the imprecatory psalms, you know, that are like out of the teeth of the wicked, and I mean, like it is praying, judgment come down. 00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:58.160 Um I think I I tend to see those as definitely most applicable to who screw, you know, the I think the New Testament highlights are real spiritual enemies. 00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:06.960 I mean, I think that there's absolutely like a sense of God's will being done to push back evil, to press light into the darkness. 00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:17.200 I think when we get into the New Testament, um, I'm just trying to think of like there's a number of times where I will absolutely play, Lord, ruin them for everything but you. 00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:20.319 Like ruin someone that they might see you. 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:29.839 And and if that, like there are times where I know y'all probably had loved ones where you're like, man, they're going through a hard season, suffering, you know, health scare, those kind of things. 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:33.759 It will this be the thing that maybe will snap them out and go, oh man, I need you. 00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:42.160 Like I can't rely on the things, all the things that I was relying on previously, and I pray, Lord, that they would be ruined for everything but you and see you. 00:18:42.319 --> 00:19:17.759 And you kind of even see this with dis of the discipline process, where if you're walking someone through and they're not repenting from their sin, like it's a fellow believer, um, then the while the the process ends with, okay, actually you do say, okay, because brother or sister, you're not repenting, you're not walking with the Lord, what we're gonna do is we're gonna we're gonna disfellowship with you and the hopes, and scripture even says that like Satan would like basically like attack your flesh and again make like like reveal those things that you might behold God all the more. 00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:28.880 And so there is a way in which you're, I mean, even in that process going in even in your mercy, would would this exile create a tension in you that would then pursue the Lord all the more? 00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:40.000 And so you almost see that even within like the church as well as I think people that that don't know him, that they might see him even if calamity were to come, that there would be a response there. 00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:45.920 Because I think at the end of the day, if you look at the law, like the law has provision for people to repent. 00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:53.599 And so, I mean, it's it's not always a one and done death sentence for transgressors of of even the Levitical law. 00:19:53.839 --> 00:20:04.160 And so, I mean, their repentance in that process, like they could do all the things, you know, in terms of, you know, obviously there's probably individual repentance that will be required for Ninevites. 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:06.960 Um, but Jonah seems to want destruction. 00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:15.359 Like, I mean, I don't think there's any desire to, oh, maybe they'll like step into the sacrificial system and do all the right things and walk in faithfulness. 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:17.759 He didn't he don't want any of that, he didn't want any part of that. 00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:28.640 And so um, so it's vengeance that he that he desires more than just yeah, I think I think where Jonah was not wrong for saying that the Ninevehites did bad stuff. 00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:29.759 They did, right? 00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:34.240 And so it's not wrong for a Christian to say what's going on is bad, right? 00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:43.759 Like if you see something that is just not right and abysmal things like this are happening, it's not wrong to say, this is not of the Lord, this is not okay, this is not righteous. 00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:56.480 I I think where Jonah's heart fell short and where he got off track was then he started wanting, he did not want restoration or reconciliation for those people, but he wanted those people to suffer and eventually die, right? 00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:58.000 Like that's what he wanted for them. 00:20:58.160 --> 00:21:05.680 And so I think again, accountability is not a not a bad thing, but accountability needs to be partnered with a desire for reconciliation with the Lord. 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:19.440 And and so I think I think kind of what Jeff is saying, like, hey, if something is going on, our heart is to walk with them through that and to like to love them through that, and to, and then eventually if they decide not to, I mean, that's a whole different conversation. 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:27.119 But I think restoration and and reconciliation with the Lord should be our heart for anybody and everybody. 00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:32.319 And and that's a hard place when you are seeing something that can be so egregious. 00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:43.759 Yeah, and Arlen, you had a really good line about I think you're you're referencing something a pastor had said to you once about, you know, if you're wishing for the death of your enemy, basically you've like forgotten the grace that rescued you or something like that. 00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:44.559 Yep. 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:46.559 Yeah, I I think that's really true. 00:21:46.640 --> 00:22:05.359 And Jeff, I think you're right that when we trace um basically that theme of retribution and justice into the New Testament, what we find is like, yeah, there are enemies, God's people have enemies, but as we get a fuller and fuller Revelation in Jesus and in the New Testament kind of expands on what we have in the Old Testament. 00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:15.119 We see that our real enemies are not the human beings who are made in the image of God, but the dark powers who have, you know, are working their will through sinful humans and deceiving sinful humans. 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:22.160 And so we never look at, we never look at individual humans, no matter like what their agenda is, what they're, you know, they're captured by. 00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:25.519 We never totally say they are irredeemable. 00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:26.640 That person is the enemy. 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:29.599 It's like, man, they're in bondage to sin, they're in bondage to Satan. 00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:30.559 We pray for them. 00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:34.079 We pray that we pray for justice, that God would make things right. 00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:37.839 Um, but the best thing would be if they're redeemed and they're rescued. 00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:41.200 And so always keep that in mind, even as we long for justice. 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:52.000 Um, well, hey, we got to wrap up here pretty quick, but I want to just quick want to ask, you know, we really tried to highlight how Jonah's heart is not aligned with God's heart, not matching God's heart. 00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:53.759 And we see that in the way he responds. 00:22:53.920 --> 00:23:04.319 Um, and I heard from a couple people as they were leaving, and maybe y'all did as well, this sort of like, oh man, feels like you were meddling a little bit, God's meddling a little bit, and maybe he's revealing some stuff about my heart. 00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:15.279 So, you know, to somebody who's who's still, you know, walking around with this passage rolling around their brain, um, what would you say if they recognize, like, man, my heart's my heart is not mashed up with God's? 00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:17.359 What might be some next steps or response to this? 00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:19.519 Pray. 00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:21.519 Pray, pray, pray, pray, pray. 00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:25.440 I think that like sometimes it's the answer that we like to just throw out there. 00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:34.240 Um, but my goodness, praying is such a healthy, healthy thing for Christians to do because it doesn't move God, it moves us, right? 00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:37.599 Like to pray constantly to say, and I even shared this. 00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:42.480 I prayed over and over, God, give me eyes so that I can see people the way you see them. 00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:44.640 And that changed my heart. 00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:46.240 That changed who I was. 00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:49.680 That was not, that didn't move God closer to Arlen's view. 00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:53.839 I didn't pray that God uh have my eyes so that I'm justified, right? 00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:54.799 Like that's not what I prayed. 00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:57.920 I prayed, God, give me your eyes so that way I can see people like you do. 00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:13.119 And and I think that man, it all starts with prayer, it all starts with prayer, and then I think you really do have to do your best to understand what God's calling us to do through the teaching of his word, through this uh study of his word, but it's it's praying. 00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:21.119 God humble me, break my heart for people, give me eyes, give me ears, give me uh give me an opportunity to practice these things. 00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:26.960 I think like when you pray for patience, that's when you find yourself behind the slowest drivers on planet earth. 00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:29.279 I think that's the Lord's answering your prayers. 00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:38.799 And and so I think man, it never underestimate prayer in the Lord and asking him for some stuff. 00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:46.960 And I think if you can really center your life around asking the Lord to align you with him, it's gonna it it just does. 00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:49.279 And and I know that from experience. 00:24:50.559 --> 00:24:51.359 That's so good. 00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:52.240 I it's funny. 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:58.559 You uh I had someone come up and said, Hey, I I think you kind of prepped us for the uncomfortable series today. 00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:10.000 Um like there were a number of moments where I was I felt very uncomfortable, like just you know, like as far as just the you know, the the questions that were being the self-examination that was happening in the midst of it. 00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:10.799 I'm like, that's funny. 00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:21.359 I wouldn't I that it wasn't I wasn't even a forethought in my mind of like, yeah, this actually is kind of a good, like, oh, you got to kind of sit in the heaviness of it because it it's meant to per to to push you in there. 00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:36.480 And I and I think that that's where you know the the the last things I highlighted were man staying close to to the Lord, you know, in his word and prayer and worship, like that's how you become like your heart begins to start to look more like his. 00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:45.920 Um there's there's these passages that I wish I could have gotten time just talking about how our relationships to idols, you know, that that those who worship idols become like them. 00:25:46.079 --> 00:25:51.119 And so I think that in the same way as we behold the Lord, we become like what we worship. 00:25:51.200 --> 00:26:08.640 And so um, so I think that, yeah, the intimacy with God, those, those ordinary, like the spiritual disciplines um that are not just for like, you know, good good health, therefore, hey, I want to hope my heart to be stirred, to be aligned, to to match with the Lord all the more. 00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:10.640 Like those are those are huge. 00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:13.119 Um and I think we we undervalue that. 00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:19.200 Um, we think that there's maybe some big, you know, grand gestures that that need to take place in order to change that. 00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:25.039 But but in reality, I think communion with the father begins to align our hearts with him. 00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:28.319 Yeah, we never we never graduate from those things, you know. 00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:31.200 We just go further, further up, further in, deeper. 00:26:31.359 --> 00:26:33.759 So, well, gentlemen, it has been an honor. 00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:35.519 I'm so grateful for Faithful Brothers. 00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:37.119 Uh, we get to teach the Bible alongside. 00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:38.079 It's just wonderful. 00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:39.920 Um, thank you guys so much for watching. 00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:42.240 We are um just honored that we get to do this. 00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:45.839 If you haven't yet uh subscribed or followed us, we'd love for you to do that. 00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:50.240 Just it lets um more people it alerts more people to the channel and get to see what we're doing. 00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:54.240 And um, we will hopefully see you guys next time on the follow up. 00:26:54.319 --> 00:26:55.759 Thanks so much for watching.