SPEAKER_00: Well, good morning.
SPEAKER_00: I expect claps every time I come down here now.
SPEAKER_00: It's good to see you guys.
SPEAKER_00: I'm back.
SPEAKER_00: They let me come back.
SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to get to be with you.
SPEAKER_00: If I've not met you, Bill set my name.
SPEAKER_00: My name is Arlen.
SPEAKER_00: I am the Lawrence Campus pastor.
SPEAKER_00: I'm the outreach pastor for Spring Lake.
SPEAKER_00: Just honored to get to be with you guys today.
SPEAKER_00: We're in the middle of a series, or not the middle, nearing the end of a series called Uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_00: And it has been some uncomfy weeks.
SPEAKER_00: Last time I was here, I helped kick off the series and we talked about politics and not making idols of politicians.
SPEAKER_00: But today we are gonna be just having an honest conversation about LGBTQ Plus or LGBTQIA.
SPEAKER_00: And I want to get ahead of this really quickly.
SPEAKER_00: Today might be hard.
SPEAKER_00: Today might be hard in a lot of ways, and uh some ways that we might not be expecting.
SPEAKER_00: Uh but if we're honest with ourselves, this conversation is happening in the world around us every single day.
SPEAKER_00: And the church has been uniquely quiet when it comes to some of this stuff.
SPEAKER_00: And so my heart was for us to have this conversation because I believe that we should be having this conversation because our kids are talking about this stuff at school and our coworkers are talking about it, and people are talking all the time about sex and marriage and pornography and purity and dating and lust and all of these things come up in everyday conversation.
SPEAKER_00: Right?
SPEAKER_00: In in student ministries, we always tell teenagers that they should take purity seriously.
SPEAKER_00: And as a church, we should tell married couples that uh it is a valuable thing and they should steward it well, and that this is a gift from the Lord.
SPEAKER_00: And we should talk openly about how sexual sin can damage us, and it can damage our marriages and our relationship with God.
SPEAKER_00: We as a church should have conversations about this stuff because it builds the body of Christ.
SPEAKER_00: The world is having this conversation, and so should we.
SPEAKER_00: And so that's what I want us to do today.
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna look at some hard parts of Scripture.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I don't want us to pretend that God's design doesn't matter, and I don't want us to have a conversation, though, in a way that turns people into theological talking points or theological debates or projects to be fixed.
SPEAKER_00: Because if we're gonna talk about something this important, we have to understand first and foremost, we're talking about people who bear the image of God, people with stories, with questions, with real hurt, and people who are in need of Jesus, just like I was in need of Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: And so a few guardrails before we start.
SPEAKER_00: I'm talking to the church today.
SPEAKER_00: This conversation is a conversation we're having with Christ followers.
SPEAKER_00: This is for the people who say, I want to follow Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: That's who this conversation is happening with today.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and if you are not a Christ follower, I want to say this.
SPEAKER_00: I'm genuinely glad you're here, and I'm excited that you're here to hear our heart.
SPEAKER_00: And I hope you listen today, and I hope you do hear our heart, because the goal today is not to beat anyone down, it's to build the body of Christ.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: So let me pray for us, and then we'll jump in.
SPEAKER_00: Lord, thank you so much for today.
SPEAKER_00: Thank you that you've given us the opportunity to love you with the best part of ourselves, to love you with everything that we have.
SPEAKER_00: Lord, we pray in this moment that you give us clarity.
SPEAKER_00: Lord, I pray that you speak through me, that the words that come from me today are from you, not from me.
SPEAKER_00: Lord, I pray that uh those in this room who don't know you have a realization that you love them enough to give your life for them.
SPEAKER_00: Lord, we love you, and we pray this in Jesus' name.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: All right, so first let's define what we're actually talking about here.
SPEAKER_00: Um so you heard me say LGBTQIA.
SPEAKER_00: It's also sometimes known as LGBTQ plus.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and this is an umbrella term that covers like a range of different sexual orientations and gender identities.
SPEAKER_00: And so the letters commonly stand for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer.
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you'll see an I for intersex or a for asexual, and then that plus is uh for other identities and experiences underneath that umbrella.
SPEAKER_00: And I say all of this for a reason because I don't want us to be afraid of the language.
SPEAKER_00: Again, the world is talking about all of this around us.
SPEAKER_00: Our coworkers, our kids, everybody is hearing these used day in and day out.
SPEAKER_00: And so if we're gonna be a church that actually engages the world around us, we should probably understand the conversation that is happening around us.
SPEAKER_00: But understanding that terminology doesn't mean automatically accepting every belief attached to it.
SPEAKER_00: And it's crucial to understand what we're actually talking about.
SPEAKER_00: And what does the Bible teach about human sexuality and God's design for marriage?
SPEAKER_00: And I want to start there.
SPEAKER_00: Because if we're not careful, we can actually get ahead of ourselves and we can start with how we feel about it, or we can start with our politics, or we can start with what culture says, or we can start with what social media says.
SPEAKER_00: But as Christians, we should start with what Scripture says.
SPEAKER_00: Amen?
SPEAKER_00: Because the Bible guides us, we don't guide the Bible.
SPEAKER_00: And that's where I want us to go.
SPEAKER_00: To what does Scripture say about this very thing?
SPEAKER_00: And so there's uh if you talk to a lot of people, there's actually a major kind of debate going on right now that Jesus was actually silent about this, and I would argue that he wasn't, that he did speak very clearly on the standard of marriage.
SPEAKER_00: And so that's where we're gonna go into today is Matthew 19.
SPEAKER_00: Starting in verse 1, we're gonna go through verse 12.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we'll have it on the screens, you can open up your Bibles or uh turn on your phone to get into your Bibles that way.
SPEAKER_00: But Matthew 19, we're gonna start in verse 1, and we're gonna walk through it together, as I believe that Jesus is actually setting a standard before us.
SPEAKER_00: And it says this When Jesus had finished saying these things, he left Galilee and went into the region of Judea to the other side of the Jordan.
SPEAKER_00: Large crowds followed him, and he healed them there.
SPEAKER_00: Some Pharisees came to him to test him, and they asked, Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?
SPEAKER_00: Haven't you read, he replied, that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female, and said, For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.
SPEAKER_00: So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
SPEAKER_00: Therefore, what God has joined together, let no man separate.
SPEAKER_00: Why then, they asked, did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?
SPEAKER_00: Jesus replied, Moses permitted you divorce, to divorce your wives, because your hearts were hard.
SPEAKER_00: But it was not this way from the beginning.
SPEAKER_00: When I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman, commits adultery.
SPEAKER_00: The disciples said to him, If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it's better not to marry.
SPEAKER_00: Jesus replied, Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given.
SPEAKER_00: For there are eunuchs who were born that way, there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.
SPEAKER_00: The one who can accept this should accept it.
SPEAKER_00: So here's what's happening.
SPEAKER_00: So Jesus has been doing ministry, and these Pharisees come up to him and they're like, hey, Jesus, we actually have a question for you.
SPEAKER_00: Uh what are the grounds for divorce?
SPEAKER_00: And this wasn't just like an innocent theological question going on.
SPEAKER_00: There was actually a big debate in Jewish culture at this time.
SPEAKER_00: What was grounds for a divorce?
SPEAKER_00: And so one camp, one Jewish camp said that divorce could happen if there was sexual immorality.
SPEAKER_00: And then the other said uh anything that was displeasing to the husband.
SPEAKER_00: So like burnt toast, displeased, you're out.
SPEAKER_00: That's what this camp was saying.
SPEAKER_00: So there were two major theological camps in this, and they come up and they say, Hey, Jesus, which side are you on?
SPEAKER_00: They tried to do this to him a lot.
SPEAKER_00: They always say, like, which side are you on?
SPEAKER_00: They say, Jesus, which side are you on?
SPEAKER_00: And Jesus, I love how he responds, he says, Hey, I'm not actually going to engage in this debate.
SPEAKER_00: Let's take it back to what it was all designed for anyway.
SPEAKER_00: And so he takes them back and he walks through creation and he is doing two major things here.
SPEAKER_00: First, Jesus does affirm God's design for marriage.
SPEAKER_00: That it is one man, one woman in relationship before the Lord.
SPEAKER_00: He does say that that is what marriage is, but then he also does affirm that God made them male and female, that God designed this.
SPEAKER_00: This is God's design.
SPEAKER_00: And so he takes it all the way back and he affirms God's design was not a mistake.
SPEAKER_00: God's design is what it is.
SPEAKER_00: And second, he's refusing to let culture define the design.
SPEAKER_00: And so the Pharisees, they wanted to argue these exceptions, and Jesus reminds them this is how God designed it.
SPEAKER_00: They wanted to debate loopholes.
SPEAKER_00: And Jesus said, We're not going to talk about loopholes.
SPEAKER_00: We're going to take it back to the beginning.
SPEAKER_00: But let's be honest with ourselves.
SPEAKER_00: How many times do we get caught trying to find the loopholes?
SPEAKER_00: We ask ourselves, like, well, what's the line?
SPEAKER_00: What can I get away with?
SPEAKER_00: But Jesus says, hey, let's talk about what you were created for.
SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about how you were created.
SPEAKER_00: And that's the posture that I want us to have today.
SPEAKER_00: And so, yes, Jesus does affirm the biblical standard of marriage.
SPEAKER_00: He doesn't debate it, he says, God designed it.
SPEAKER_00: So we submit to that design.
SPEAKER_00: That's where we stand as a church.
SPEAKER_00: In fact, if you actually go on springlakechurch.org, you can read.
SPEAKER_00: We have a statement about this.
SPEAKER_00: And we say that this is what we hold that marriage is between one man and one woman before the Lord.
SPEAKER_00: And that's our conviction because we believe that that comes from Scripture.
SPEAKER_00: Again, because the Bible guides us, we don't guide the Bible.
SPEAKER_00: Amen?
SPEAKER_00: So that's God's design.
SPEAKER_00: The bigger question then becomes this how does the church respond?
SPEAKER_00: How does the church respond to people that live outside of this design?
SPEAKER_00: Because if we hold this standard, right, the same standard that Jesus holds, we should grieve when anyone for any reason is outside of this design.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: Because it's what this conversation is ultimately about.
SPEAKER_00: Because look, the Bible's like sexual ethic isn't just exclusive or restrictive to people in the LGBTQ community.
SPEAKER_00: It also says premarital sex is a sin.
SPEAKER_00: It says adultery is a sin.
SPEAKER_00: It says uh pornography or incest or anything outside God's design is sin.
SPEAKER_00: And within the biblical understanding of sexuality that we're talking about here, anything outside that design is not what the Lord wants.
SPEAKER_00: And it should grieve us.
SPEAKER_00: But I think sometimes the church is uniquely targeted to those in the LGBTQ plus community as though their sexual sin is the defining one, that theirs is the worst of them all.
SPEAKER_00: But I want to say this sexuality is not what saves us.
SPEAKER_00: Only Jesus provides salvation.
SPEAKER_00: Amen?
SPEAKER_00: Nobody got saved because they got their sexuality right.
SPEAKER_00: We're saved because of Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: And look, every single one of us has areas in our life where we have desires or actions that we have to submit before the Lord.
SPEAKER_00: For some people it's sexual sin, but for others it's pride and greed and anger and addiction and gluttony and selfishness and unforgiveness.
SPEAKER_00: We are all in need of Jesus' grace.
SPEAKER_00: Amen?
SPEAKER_00: And so as we enter into this conversation, we're gonna do uh if you were with me for my politics one, we did a list of do's and don'ts.
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna do it again.
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna do some do's and we're gonna do some don'ts with how the church should respond.
SPEAKER_00: But before we start that, uh, I want to say three things.
SPEAKER_00: First, I am not a clinical therapist, nor am I a doctor.
SPEAKER_00: And so I don't always understand the reasons somebody may be experiencing same-sex attraction or struggling with gender dysphoria.
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not gonna claim to be an expert in that.
SPEAKER_00: Uh second, though, I do recognize that the church has done a pretty poor job, not Spring Lake, but like church at large has done a pretty poor job at teaching on this subject.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and historically, we have not done a great job at loving on people that are in the LGBTQ camp.
SPEAKER_00: But third, I want to say this.
SPEAKER_00: If you are here today and you do wrestle with same-sex attraction or gender dysphoria, and you wonder whether there's a place for you in this church, I want to say this to you so clearly.
SPEAKER_00: We see you and we hear you, and we are genuinely happy that you get to hear the name of Jesus Christ today.
SPEAKER_00: Amen?
SPEAKER_00: We want you to hear the name of Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: So, as we start this conversation, let's jump into our first do.
SPEAKER_00: How do we respond to people that don't hold the same standards, don't hold the same convictions as us?
SPEAKER_00: And is this do remember that they were made in God's image?
SPEAKER_00: Remember how Jesus took the Pharisees back to Genesis, right?
SPEAKER_00: He says, hey, let's take it back to the beginning.
SPEAKER_00: Let's have that conversation.
SPEAKER_00: Let's go all the way back to the beginning.
SPEAKER_00: Well, Genesis, that gives us the standard for biblical marriage, also tells us something else.
SPEAKER_00: It tells us how we were created.
SPEAKER_00: And in this, Genesis 1.27 tells us that God creates, created mankind in his own image.
SPEAKER_00: In the image of God, he created them, male and female, he created them.
SPEAKER_00: And so God declares that humanity alone bears his image.
SPEAKER_00: And we're the only part of creation, uniquely created in his likeness.
SPEAKER_00: And if we believe that God is who he says he is, right, that he is creator and sustainer of all things, worthy of worship and praise, and that every person is made in his image, then every person is worthy of dignity and respect.
SPEAKER_00: Amen?
SPEAKER_00: Those are defaults.
SPEAKER_00: No matter what somebody has done, no matter what they believe, no matter what sexuality they practice, they're made in God's image and they're human.
SPEAKER_00: And so we love them.
SPEAKER_00: One of the most influential sermons I ever heard from a pastor was he said, as long as I'm a pastor of this church, we will not be a church that ever looks down our nose at somebody.
SPEAKER_00: And he said, Because underneath every external sinful thing going on in their life, every internal sinful struggle is a soul that Jesus bled and died for.
SPEAKER_00: Underneath it all is a soul that Jesus bled and died for.
SPEAKER_00: Amen?
SPEAKER_00: Underneath it all.
SPEAKER_00: And we owe it to Jesus to treat people with dignity before anything.
SPEAKER_00: They are a soul.
SPEAKER_00: They are a person that Jesus lived and died for.
SPEAKER_00: And if Jesus thought that their life that they were worth giving his life for, we can never look down our noses if they walk through the door.
SPEAKER_00: Sin is sin, and we will call it sin, but they are still a person.
SPEAKER_00: And we don't have to agree with everything that someone believes to treat them with dignity, and we don't have to affirm every decision someone makes to love them.
SPEAKER_00: But we don't get to compromise what Scripture teaches about the value of humanity if we disagree with them.
SPEAKER_00: We do absolutely always have to remember who's sitting in front of us a soul that Jesus bled and died for.
SPEAKER_00: And that should change how we look at people.
SPEAKER_00: So the first do, remember anybody that we come in contact with was created in God's image.
SPEAKER_00: But the second do is do build relationships, not projects.
SPEAKER_00: Do build relationships, not projects.
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna switch over to Matthew 9 here for just a second.
SPEAKER_00: And it says this, starting in verse 10, it says, While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew's house, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with him and his disciples.
SPEAKER_00: When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?
SPEAKER_00: On hearing this, Jesus said, It's not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.
SPEAKER_00: But go and learn what this means.
SPEAKER_00: I desire mercy, not sacrifice, for I have come not to call the righteous, but sinners.
SPEAKER_00: And so here's what's going on in this.
SPEAKER_00: In his ministry, Jesus was really known for doing things that people were surprised at.
SPEAKER_00: One of the things that he would do is he would often hang out with tax collectors and sinners.
SPEAKER_00: And in this particular instance, he's having dinner with them.
SPEAKER_00: And side note, I think it's really kind of it's it always makes me laugh that the tax collectors were up to stuff that was so bad they got their own category, right?
SPEAKER_00: Like it was sinners and then the tax collectors.
SPEAKER_00: But uh Jesus is having dinner with these people, and these Pharisees walk in and they say, Hey, what is what is Jesus doing?
SPEAKER_00: How could he do that?
SPEAKER_00: Why is he sitting with them?
SPEAKER_00: How could he sit and have dinner with them?
SPEAKER_00: And I love Jesus' response because his response is basically, how could I not?
SPEAKER_00: How could I not?
SPEAKER_00: I want them to have salvation.
SPEAKER_00: How could I not engage them?
SPEAKER_00: I have to have these conversations with them.
SPEAKER_00: And next he does something so profound.
SPEAKER_00: He actually quotes Hosea 6, 6 back to them.
SPEAKER_00: He says, For I desire mercy, not sacrifice.
SPEAKER_00: It comes from Hosea 6.6, for I desire mercy, not sacrifice, an acknowledgement of God rather than burnt offerings.
SPEAKER_00: And so the Pharisees would have known this verse cold.
SPEAKER_00: They were the experts in scripture.
SPEAKER_00: And so Jesus isn't inventing some new ethic here.
SPEAKER_00: He's modeling the one that was already set before them.
SPEAKER_00: And so there's two words, mercy and sacrifice.
SPEAKER_00: And we're going to look at these for just a second.
SPEAKER_00: Sacrifice in this context represents like religious correctness or purity or codes or rituals, or basically the marker of righteousness in the eyes of the Pharisees.
SPEAKER_00: But f but mercy that Jesus says is relational and it's costly and it's not a feeling and it's an action towards someone, and it's faithfulness and it's goodness.
SPEAKER_00: And so here's the thing: the Pharisees were not wrong that there was sin going on.
SPEAKER_00: These people were not doing what they were supposed to be doing.
SPEAKER_00: They weren't wrong that sin existed.
SPEAKER_00: They were just wrong about what God wanted them to do with that knowledge.
SPEAKER_00: And Jesus was then exposing their self-righteousness.
SPEAKER_00: And so what does this have to do with loving the LGBTQ community?
SPEAKER_00: Everything.
SPEAKER_00: The danger in this passage was the Pharisees watching from the door and judging what they had already decided was an unworthy person to sit with or talk to.
SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes, not exclusively within the LGBTQ community, but I think sometimes we have created a version of that same problem where we've been afraid to associate with somebody as if talking to them, getting to know them, means I'm affirming everything that they believe or do, but that's just not true.
SPEAKER_00: We sit with people that wrestle with sin struggle all the time.
SPEAKER_00: We sit with people that wrestle with sin struggle and lust, or we sit with people that are walking through cases of adultery or affairs, or we've s we walk with people who struggle with addictions or alcoholism or whatever it is.
SPEAKER_00: We sit with people in this.
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean we have to affirm everything, but it doesn't mean that we love them through this.
SPEAKER_00: We can love somebody without affirming everything that they believe.
SPEAKER_00: We can know their name, we can eat at their table, we can listen to their story, and we can care about their life while still holding what Scripture teaches.
SPEAKER_00: Because relationship with somebody doesn't erase conviction.
SPEAKER_00: It just helps us love people more.
SPEAKER_00: And so let me ask you this: who's sitting at your table?
SPEAKER_00: And whose doorway have we stood in judging?
SPEAKER_00: Because mercy isn't the absence of truth, it's truth that walks into a room instead of shouting from the doorway.
SPEAKER_00: Do we know their name?
SPEAKER_00: Before we know their sin?
SPEAKER_00: Would we recognize their voice on the phone?
SPEAKER_00: Would we know what they took in their coffee last week?
SPEAKER_00: Do we know what they're afraid of or what broke their heart last year?
SPEAKER_00: Or is the only thing that we know about them the very thing that we just already said that that's the worst part about you?
SPEAKER_00: Because if we are saving a warmth for a version of them that we hope that they'll become, that's not grace.
SPEAKER_00: That's a fee.
SPEAKER_00: We just need to love people well.
SPEAKER_00: And so when somebody from the LGBTQ community does walk through the doors of our church on a Sunday morning, what's our first response?
SPEAKER_00: Do we celebrate that they have the opportunity to hear the name of Jesus that day?
SPEAKER_00: Do we ask them their name?
SPEAKER_00: Or is our first move, even if it's not what we say, is our first move to look at them and say, how do I fix you?
SPEAKER_00: Because if that's the message that we've sent, we told them that they need to clean it up before they come to Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: We told them the doctor doesn't want the sick.
SPEAKER_00: But Jesus sat with people and he built relationships with them.
SPEAKER_00: And he loved them.
SPEAKER_00: And so this last summer, I took my daughters to the Wisconsin Dells a few months ago.
SPEAKER_00: Um if you've ever been to the to the Dells, it's a trip.
SPEAKER_00: It's it's an ex it's an experience, I'll say that.
SPEAKER_00: And we're we're in the Dells, and uh we're we went there to swim, that's like a huge part of it, but we're still a little newer to Wisconsin, so we didn't realize that it's still cold in June.
SPEAKER_00: And so we go to this water park, and we're like, okay, well, let's go to the indoor water park, right?
SPEAKER_00: It's too cold, there's like 50 some that day, and so we're like, let's go to this indoor water park.
SPEAKER_00: And we walk in, and there are like lights and sounds, and this whole uh water park is crazy, and you just hear kids screaming the entire time.
SPEAKER_00: And there's like so much fun.
SPEAKER_00: And my oldest daughter, my my seven year old, she looks at it and she it's like she went to Disneyland, you know?
SPEAKER_00: She sees it and she's like, bye mom, bye dad.
SPEAKER_00: She just takes off, right?
SPEAKER_00: She's running, we're like, don't run, you're inside, and we're trying to chase her down.
SPEAKER_00: And then we're like, hey, come back, stay within mom and dad's sights.
SPEAKER_00: And uh, but she's just so excited.
SPEAKER_00: But then my my youngest daughter, she walks in.
SPEAKER_00: And she's just so like overwhelmed by it all.
SPEAKER_00: She's just staring at everything that's going on.
SPEAKER_00: And I try and drag her to the pool, and she's like, Nope, nope, not getting in.
SPEAKER_00: And she just stares.
SPEAKER_00: So I tell my wife, I say, Hey, go uh go with our oldest, go swim, have a good time.
SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna sit with our two-year-old.
SPEAKER_00: And so we do.
SPEAKER_00: So we sit on the side of this pool.
SPEAKER_00: And we're, I kid you not, we're on the side of this pool for about 45 minutes.
SPEAKER_00: And the entire time, she's just staring.
SPEAKER_00: She doesn't look anywhere else.
SPEAKER_00: She just stares at this pool.
SPEAKER_00: And I tried to talk to her, but she didn't even hear me.
SPEAKER_00: She's just staring at this pool.
SPEAKER_00: About 45 minutes in, she stands up, doesn't say a thing to me.
SPEAKER_00: And she just goes, So I grab her hand, and we walk to the edge of the pool.
SPEAKER_00: And she puts her toe in and then she takes it out.
SPEAKER_00: And I'm still standing there, I didn't say a thing.
SPEAKER_00: Holding her hand.
SPEAKER_00: And she goes, and she jumps in.
SPEAKER_00: And it's like an inch of water.
SPEAKER_00: You know, she gets in.
SPEAKER_00: And my daughter and my wife see this happen.
SPEAKER_00: And they're in the big pool and they start celebrating.
SPEAKER_00: We look like lunatics.
SPEAKER_00: We're like, woo-hoo! And we start screaming, because my daughter got her ankles in the water, you know, like we're just going so crazy because she did this.
SPEAKER_00: And then my oldest daughter, I love her, but she runs over and she's like, hey, my sister's in the pool.
SPEAKER_00: I have somebody to play with.
SPEAKER_00: And so she starts like dragging her through the pool, and we're like, hey, stop, stop, stop.
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna scare her again.
SPEAKER_00: And we come over to her and we we sit her down and we say, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the right move is just to celebrate that she had the courage to get in the pool.
SPEAKER_00: Church.
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the right move is just to celebrate that they're asking the questions.
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the right move is to just sit with them.
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the right move is to just learn their name and save the water slide for next summer.
SPEAKER_00: Amen?
SPEAKER_00: Just love them.
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean we have to affirm everything, but it just means we're there with them when they're searching and they're seeking.
SPEAKER_00: How are we doing?
SPEAKER_00: Those are the do's.
SPEAKER_00: Those are the easy ones.
SPEAKER_00: We're under the don'ts.
SPEAKER_00: All right.
SPEAKER_00: The next one.
SPEAKER_00: Don't confuse conviction with cruelty.
SPEAKER_00: Let's jump back into that first story in Matthew 19 for just a second.
SPEAKER_00: Jesus talking to the Pharisees, establishing God's design for marriage.
SPEAKER_00: And I know some of some of us probably have questions.
SPEAKER_00: Well, like, is there hope for somebody that does struggle with same-sex attraction or gender dysphoria?
SPEAKER_00: Like, how can they faithfully follow the Lord in this?
SPEAKER_00: And Jesus actually kind of gives part of the answer in this.
SPEAKER_00: After he raises a standard for marriage, his disciples respond.
SPEAKER_00: They say, if this is the situation between a husband and wife, it's better not to marry.
SPEAKER_00: And Jesus says, not everyone can accept that word, but only those to whom it has been given.
SPEAKER_00: And he goes on, he talks about eunuchs, including those who choose a life of celibacy for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.
SPEAKER_00: And I want to be careful here because this isn't like Jesus laser focused on people that struggle with same-sex attraction.
SPEAKER_00: He's talking about celibacy more broadly.
SPEAKER_00: But his words do carry an important implication that, hey, if we want to follow Jesus and we can't do it faithfully in the design that he set forth, then it is something that we don't get to partake in.
SPEAKER_00: And Jesus says, that's a hard reality for some.
SPEAKER_00: And not everybody is going to accept that word, only to those, only to those to whom it has been given.
SPEAKER_00: And it's hard sometimes.
SPEAKER_00: Jesus is saying, hey, notice, this is something that requires a lot of grace.
SPEAKER_00: And that matters because I think sometimes our response just to like sexual ethics is the Bible says don't do it, so just don't do it.
SPEAKER_00: And technically, we're right.
SPEAKER_00: We stated the rule correctly.
SPEAKER_00: But church, don't skip discipleship in this process.
SPEAKER_00: Because following Jesus has never just been about doing a list of things or not doing a list of things.
SPEAKER_00: It's not about things that we're allowed or not allowed to do.
SPEAKER_00: He calls people to give them their whole lives, to take up their cross, to surrender their desires and their plans and their comfort and their pride and sometimes a future that they thought that they might have.
SPEAKER_00: And that's what makes discipleship costly.
SPEAKER_00: And we have to be careful not to minimize that cost for somebody else.
SPEAKER_00: Look, if somebody does experience same-sex attraction, or they do wrestle with gender dysphoria, and they believe that they want to follow Jesus, that means they might be surrendering something that was important to them.
SPEAKER_00: They might be surrendering the possibility of marriage or grieving a relationship or a future that they'd always imagined for themselves, wondering what their life might look like in 10, 20, 30 years from now.
SPEAKER_00: And we don't have to change our convictions because of that struggle, but we do have to acknowledge this probably is gonna be hard for them.
SPEAKER_00: It could be difficult.
SPEAKER_00: And if we're gonna tell somebody, follow Jesus, even if it costs you something, we should probably care about what it's costing them.
SPEAKER_00: We should acknowledge this.
SPEAKER_00: Pointing at the Bible and running away is not discipleship.
SPEAKER_00: If you follow Jesus, and I mean if you truly follow him, we know, we know that following him is better than anything we could give ourselves.
SPEAKER_00: Amen?
SPEAKER_00: We know it to be true, but it can be scary for people on the outside to take that first step of faith.
SPEAKER_00: And that's why Jesus' words in Matthew 19 matter so much.
SPEAKER_00: He says, not everyone can accept this word, but only to those to whom it has been given.
SPEAKER_00: There's grace involved.
SPEAKER_00: And Jesus says, hey, not everybody's gonna accept that this is the reality.
SPEAKER_00: There's a section in Luke 14 when Jesus is talking to people, like this huge crowd comes around him, and they're in.
SPEAKER_00: And Jesus chooses to purposely not soften the cost of discipleship.
SPEAKER_00: He gives them two examples.
SPEAKER_00: He says, first, if you're gonna build a tower, you should probably understand how much the tower costs.
SPEAKER_00: Smart.
SPEAKER_00: Don't build the tower without being able to afford how to build the tower.
SPEAKER_00: Then he says, Kings, probably don't go into war unless they're willing to understand.
SPEAKER_00: That they unless they're willing to say, Am I actually gonna win this war?
SPEAKER_00: Right?
SPEAKER_00: But then he says, following him means you give up your entire life.
SPEAKER_00: Everything, you give it all up.
SPEAKER_00: And for some, again, it's money or pride or forgiveness, some it's ambition, sexual desires.
SPEAKER_00: Every disciple surrenders something.
SPEAKER_00: And look, cruelty doesn't happen because we hold this theological position.
SPEAKER_00: That's not where cruelty comes in.
SPEAKER_00: Cruelty comes in when we minimize the cost of obedience for others.
SPEAKER_00: And we need to be willing to walk with them as they learn what it means to follow Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: Sit with them when obedience hurts.
SPEAKER_00: Listen when they're lonely.
SPEAKER_00: Remind them that their identity is found in Jesus more than it's found in anything else, that their identity is in Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: Build a life that is so full of Jesus and community and friendship and service that their life is not built on what they're missing, but it's built on what they gained in Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: The grace of Jesus isn't an optional accessory to discipleship.
SPEAKER_00: It's the reason discipleship is possible at all.
SPEAKER_00: And so we have to hold firmly to what scripture teaches about marriage and sexuality without becoming careless about the people that we've asked to live that out.
SPEAKER_00: We can say this is what we believe the Bible wants us to do and what God has called us to do, while also saying we're gonna walk with you while you seek the Lord.
SPEAKER_00: Because if we're gonna ask somebody to carry a cross, we shouldn't ask them to do it alone.
SPEAKER_00: Amen?
SPEAKER_00: That was a quiet one.
SPEAKER_00: Alright, the second don't.
SPEAKER_00: Don't compromise the truth to avoid offense.
SPEAKER_00: Don't compromise the truth.
SPEAKER_00: This might feel like a tonal shift, but I actually don't think it is, right?
SPEAKER_00: Truth and grace don't compete.
SPEAKER_00: They actually work hand in hand, they belong together.
SPEAKER_00: Go back to Matthew 19, right?
SPEAKER_00: The Pharisees come to trap Jesus to settle this cultural debate in their terms, and he didn't dodge it, he didn't soften it.
SPEAKER_00: In fact, he went back to the beginning and he reaffirmed the truth.
SPEAKER_00: He reaffirmed God's design for humanity and for marriage, and it wasn't an answer built to make friends.
SPEAKER_00: He challenged the loopholes that had been built in their culture.
SPEAKER_00: And if Jesus was willing to tell the truth, so should we.
SPEAKER_00: We tell the truth.
SPEAKER_00: We should tell the truth.
SPEAKER_00: It's our responsibility.
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes the truth can be offensive.
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you have read the Bible at some point and you're like, I don't like that.
SPEAKER_00: So you skip to the next one, right?
SPEAKER_00: There's things in Scripture that can be hard to swallow.
SPEAKER_00: I know I have read the Bible, and I've thought to myself, it would just be a little easier if that wasn't in there.
SPEAKER_00: But it's in there.
SPEAKER_00: And so we tell the truth.
SPEAKER_00: And Jesus raised the standard in a room full of people looking to lower the standard.
SPEAKER_00: And his own disciples push back.
SPEAKER_00: They say, if that's the standard, it's just better not better for me to not even play that game, to not even get into this.
SPEAKER_00: And uh Jesus is like, hey, yeah, this is a this is a hard thing.
SPEAKER_00: And it's two different audiences with different reactions, but one unmovable truth.
SPEAKER_00: Jesus didn't chase either group down to soften his words, and he didn't say, well, maybe there are some exceptions.
SPEAKER_00: He didn't ignore the weight of what he had just said.
SPEAKER_00: He acknowledged the cost and he dignified people who would carry it.
SPEAKER_00: But if Jesus was willing to speak the truth, we don't have the authority to lower what the truth is, but we also don't have the authority to lower the compassion that he had either.
SPEAKER_00: And he never asked us to choose, he just embodied both.
SPEAKER_00: And so we will be having conversations in our communities and with family and friends about LGBTQ and LGBTQIA.
SPEAKER_00: And we're talking about people, people we love who carry the real cost simply by just walking into these conversations.
SPEAKER_00: And if we're not willing to sit with them in that cost, honestly, that is just not the heart of Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: He wants to walk with people.
SPEAKER_00: And walking with people sometimes means saying, I love you so much that I have to tell you the truth.
SPEAKER_00: I love you so much that I have to tell you the truth.
SPEAKER_00: But we have to be honest with ourselves about what kind of love that actually is.
SPEAKER_00: Is it love that we say because we genuinely genuinely want what's best for them?
SPEAKER_00: Or is it love because we just wanted them to be the person we want them to be?
SPEAKER_00: And we're actually not in the game of teaching them about Jesus, we're just in the game of behavior modification.
SPEAKER_00: We should want them to know Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: Because if our love only shows up when somebody agrees with us, it was never love in the first place.
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I saved this one for last.
SPEAKER_00: Because how it lands depends on whether you've already done the first three things.
SPEAKER_00: Learn their name.
SPEAKER_00: See them as made in God's image, understand what's going on in their life, and then we tell them the truth in we speak in love and grace.
SPEAKER_00: Look, people don't care what you know until they know that you care.
SPEAKER_00: You can know every answer to everything, but if they don't know that you care about them, they're just not gonna listen.
SPEAKER_00: And nobody cared for them more than Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: Amen?
SPEAKER_00: So let's show them Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: Not a self-righteous version of what we think it is.
SPEAKER_00: Let's show them the real Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: Because in all things we have to hold together truth and grace.
SPEAKER_00: Amen?
SPEAKER_00: We have to hold them.
SPEAKER_00: Here's uh the hardest thing I'm gonna have to I'm gonna say today.
SPEAKER_00: Not everybody wants to follow Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: There are gonna be people who hear the truth of the gospel and don't want it.
SPEAKER_00: And that should break our heart and it should grieve them, or it should grieve us.
SPEAKER_00: But we need to remember our calling isn't to transform people into who we think that they should become.
SPEAKER_00: Our calling is to stay faithful to Christ, loving people deeply.
SPEAKER_00: And so I'll say this: we cannot be surprised when the world behaves like the world.
SPEAKER_00: And we cannot be surprised that people don't, that people that don't want to follow Jesus behave as though they don't want to follow Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: That shouldn't be a surprise to us.
SPEAKER_00: But again, our mission has never been about behavior modification, it's about introducing people to Jesus and trusting that the Holy Spirit will change hearts.
SPEAKER_00: We just bear witness to Him.
SPEAKER_00: And so we have to be careful about what we think our job is.
SPEAKER_00: Because our job is not just to make somebody sexually pure so they can meet Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: Our job is to introduce them to Jesus and to then just trust him with the rest.
SPEAKER_00: And so, yes, church, we do have a responsibility, protect sound doctrine, teach what scripture teaches.
SPEAKER_00: But we are not the Holy Spirit, and we don't transform hearts, and we cannot manufacture repentance for somebody.
SPEAKER_00: We just speak truth and we love people and we invite them to the table and we point them to Jesus, and then we trust that the Spirit will do what only the Spirit can do.
SPEAKER_00: And so, look, I know that there were real questions that people have about this topic that I didn't answer today.
SPEAKER_00: And part of that is because if I did decide to go down one of those rabbit holes, I'd be here till 4 o'clock, which is great for me, hard for you, you know?
SPEAKER_00: And so I didn't want to open up all those can of warrants, but I did want to give you a framework to answer some of these questions.
SPEAKER_00: And so when a question does come up, I want you to answer this.
SPEAKER_00: What response most faithfully reflects both the truth and grace of Jesus Christ and what decision will most faithfully point them to Jesus?
SPEAKER_00: And if we stay there, I promise you, you will be better equipped than if I just gave you a yes or a no to a random question that you asked me.
SPEAKER_00: Ask yourself those two questions because again, I think we sometimes we've forgotten our role and we've convinced ourselves that our calling is to drag people to Jesus kicking and screaming.
SPEAKER_00: That is not our calling.
SPEAKER_00: It is to love people so well and to give them a glimpse of how much that Jesus loved them while holding truth.
SPEAKER_00: And before we call the world to repent, I think it's important that the church remember how to do it too.
SPEAKER_00: And so let us confess where we've been harsh.
SPEAKER_00: Let us confess where we've wanted to just be right more than build a relationship.
SPEAKER_00: Let us confess where we have mistaken winning the argument as discipleship.
SPEAKER_00: Let us just confess where we might have been cruel, because the gospel is not ours to gatekeep, it's ours to share and to bear witness to and to speak truth and extend grace.
SPEAKER_00: Because the foot of the cross was never reserved for people who got it right.
SPEAKER_00: It was available to people willing to admit that they didn't.
SPEAKER_00: And we have to speak that truth.
SPEAKER_00: So go repenting and those who have been forgiven, loving as those who have been loved, holding truth and grace together, and with hands that are lifted in surrender so they can't be pointed in judgment.
SPEAKER_00: And let's love people.
SPEAKER_00: Amen?
SPEAKER_00: Let me pray for us.
SPEAKER_00: Lord, thank you so much for today.
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for who you are and the way you love us.
SPEAKER_00: Lord, I confess my inadequacies.
SPEAKER_00: I confess where I've gotten this wrong, where I've enjoyed being right more than loving people.
SPEAKER_00: Lord, I confess my own doubts sometimes, my own struggles.
SPEAKER_00: Lord, I pray in this moment that we are a church that's just known for loving and sharing the name of Jesus with anybody and everybody that we come in contact with.
SPEAKER_00: And I pray for those in this in this room who don't know you.
SPEAKER_00: I pray that they come to find you.
SPEAKER_00: I pray for this for churches all over the world that they come to be in relationship with you.
SPEAKER_00: Lord, we love you.
SPEAKER_00: And we pray this in Jesus' name.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.