Kristin Aquino-Pham admits she had no business (literally or otherwise!) being a livestock farmer when she bought her first piece of land in 2020 in the north Georgia mountains. An urban lawyer and mother of three young kids, what started as an exploration - even just a distraction - for her during chaotic times became a full-fledged mission, business, and so much more (goats, sheep, pigs and all!) as Kasama Farm Foundation / OOBD Products. Today, we'll hear how Kristin:
More on Kristin Aquino-Pham, Kasama Farm Foundation and OOBD Products in Elijay, Georgia at https://kasamafarmfoundation.com/ on Instagram at @tintinpham and @oobdfarm, Facebook at Kristin Aquino-Pham: Livestock Farmer, and on YouTube. (And for more on her 'other' professional life and background, including in law, check out her LinkedIn.)
And SUBSCRIBE to your host's *Leap-in-Progress* blog here (very bottom of the page) and catch up past posts here!
***
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Subscribe to Life Leaps Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts! Follow, rate and review us - we're *brand new* so, it means a lot - and be the first to know when we launch new episodes each week:
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Kristin Aquino-Pham admits she had no business (literally or otherwise!) being a livestock farmer when she bought her first piece of land in 2020 in the north Georgia mountains. An urban lawyer and mother of three young kids, what started as an exploration - even just a distraction - for her during chaotic times became a full-fledged mission, business, and so much more (goats, sheep, pigs and all!) as Kasama Farm Foundation / OOBD Products. Today, we'll hear how Kristin:
More on Kristin Aquino-Pham, Kasama Farm Foundation and OOBD Products in Elijay, Georgia at https://kasamafarmfoundation.com/ on Instagram at @tintinpham and @oobdfarm, Facebook at Kristin Aquino-Pham: Livestock Farmer, and on YouTube. (And for more on her 'other' professional life and background, including in law, check out her LinkedIn.)
And SUBSCRIBE to your host's *Leap-in-Progress* blog here (very bottom of the page) and catch up past posts here!
***
Have guest ideas? Can't wait to hear what leaps will be next?
Subscribe to Life Leaps Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts! Follow, rate and review us - we're *brand new* so, it means a lot - and be the first to know when we launch new episodes each week:
*ACCESSIBILITY: Transcripts are available for each episode here. (Just click your episode of choice, and then click the "transcript" tab! And if you have any issues at all don't hesitate to reach out.)
Kristin Aquino-Pham: [00:00:00] I'm covered in mud. I cannot find a happier place for myself to be, to be honest.
Life Leaps Podcast: Welcome to Life Leaps Podcast. Hear inspiring stories of ordinary people who made extraordinary life changes. What drove them, what almost held them back. Insights for the rest of us considering life leaps big or small, because hearing someone else do it reminds us that we can too.
Happy Wednesday, everyone. So I was recently reading through the reviews for the podcast and I wanted to share one. It says, I love the variety of guests on this show. All ages, backgrounds and stages of life. It gives me ideas and inspiration.
It makes me feel like there's a path and hope for everyone. Even if the particulars of someone's leap are totally different than your life, there's always something to learn and take away. thank you. I appreciate that. that's my hope, And if you also are enjoying the show. Please, [00:01:00] please, please go to your podcast app, apple, Spotify, whatever it is.
And give us five stars. Write a review, especially on apple podcasts. Their views are amazing. but Okay. Without further ado. Today we are with Kristen at Keno fam. Who admits she had no business literally or otherwise.
Being a livestock farmer when she bought her first piece of land in 2020 in the north Georgia mountains. An urban lawyer and mother of three young kids. What started as an exploration, even just a distraction. For Kristen during chaotic times became a full fledged mission business and so much more. Goats sheep.
Pigs and all As cassava farm foundation, O O B D products. Today, we'll hear how Kristen decided to do this thing in the first place. Was pushed by an unexpected hardship in her law world now manages to do law and farming. [00:02:00] Reminding us, you don't have to leave your old life completely to pursue a dream.
Talks about being a woman of color she's Filipina in this space. And offers really solid advice, which we haven't heard before about approaching a leap when loved ones are leaping with you. Side note, two things that I love here R one. How Kristen talks about dabbling on the farm at first, seeing how it felt testing a dream.
So another episode, number 14 with career coach, author, and Yale professor Astro. Baumgardner digs into this too, and explains how exploring your interests, deciding what feels good. What brings you into flow? And what doesn't with curiosity instead of immediately always trying to figure it all out is actually more likely to set us up for success.
Because it creates less pressure. So Kristen did that. And number two, I love how Christian readily admits that. Now [00:03:00] looking back, her progression might all make a lot of sense, but at the time she didn't feel that she had this clear passion or direction or goal. And I think that's important because look, when you hear these podcast episodes,
You're getting like a more cogent, clear story with the benefit of hindsight. But the reality is a lot of these life Leaper's don't know at the time and are just connecting the dots later on for us, for themselves. And we have to remember that before getting intimidated by someone else's story. Too harshly judging our own.
and just, wouldn't trying to make sense of our own lives. as we live them in the moment. So, okay. Without further delay. Here is Kristen and stay tuned at the end of this episode four scenes from next week.
Also y'all. I am so sorry, but when I was recording this conversation with Kristin, I never knew all along that my microphone was off Which means in fact, my very crummy little computer speaker was actually recording me [00:04:00] and was slightly covered. So I sound kind of muffled.
I think you can still hear me. You get the gist. And the good news is that just makes Kristin sound all the more amazing, so, okay. Enjoy.
Life Leaps Podcast: So I was born in Elgin, Illinois, right outside of Chicago.
Kristin Aquino-Pham: I moved from Elgin when I was three to Atlanta, Georgia. and I have lived in Georgia ever since. taking only a brief two years away to go to law school in DC
I transferred back to Georgia State. my father got sick, so I wanted to be closer to family, and it turned out to be the best move I could have made because I ended up really building my career here as a lawyer.
Life Leaps Podcast: And your life now, you are now currently in
Kristin Aquino-Pham: l j Georgia, right? I, my farm is in l j Georgia, but I still live in Atlanta. I drive up to LJ three to four times a week to, to tend to the farm.
it's about an hour and a [00:05:00] half drive. an hour
Life Leaps Podcast: and a half, but probably like a world away, right?
Kristin Aquino-Pham: Yep. so LJ is the first, mountain town, on the Appalachian Mountain range that starts in Georgia.
Life Leaps Podcast: you could drive 25 minutes and be in North Carolina and, or another 30 minutes and be in Tennessee from lj. So very different from Atlanta. Okay. so you mentioned law school. You started your career as
Kristin Aquino-Pham: a lawyer, right? so I was a paralegal for four years and then I went to law school and became a lawyer.
knew I wanted to go to law school.
it was something that I'd wanted to do since I was a little kid.
What drove you to go to law school in the first place?
my mom tells me that when I was three, I announced that I wanted to be a lawyer. I really have no idea , what made me want to become a lawyer. I, and I just held onto it. And a lot of people,in, not in a mean-spirited way, but would say to me that they didn't think that I would make a good lawyer because I was too [00:06:00] friendly or I, I didn't seem very, bookish or, or didn't seem like I would be too into like rigorous academic study.
but it's interesting because what I've found is that, there are many kinds of lawyers. we're not all writing appeals to the Supreme Court. we're, thank you. I know.
so I, I have found that, my skillset actually worked well with the type of law that I ended up in, which was, immigration. So I did business, immigration law, and so working with businesses, it went well with my skillset because I was very, I am very sociable. I can talk to people easily.
And then, I'm very entrepreneurial, so I was able to have that business sense that, I probably, I may not have if I were someone who was always just writing appeals to federal torts . and then I, and then I got into immigration, which I appreciated a lot because of my experience being,the child of immigrants and also, being,fluent in other languages and things like that.
I found that [00:07:00] people told me I wouldn't make a good lawyer, but now that I look back on it, having, I've had my logged, license for 12 years now. I look back on it and I'm oh no, I think you were wrong. I actually do make a pretty good lawyer. This kind of lawyer, maybe not that kind of lawyer, but I'm good at this kind of law that I do.
all that to say is I've, one thing is I'm not, I don't listen to other people a lot when they tell me that I can't do something . or I wouldn't be good at, something's not a bad trace. It's not terrible. my parents probably didn't love it , but, but yeah, so that's how I ended up becoming a lawyer.
And,I haven't regretted a moment of it since. it wasn't always a fun path and it was not easy to get there, but it, I think it matches be well still, even though I'm not fully a lawyer now. I was gonna say,
Life Leaps Podcast: okay.
What happened, , what happened? Cause now you run a farm and it's an amazing one [00:08:00] and I wanna talk all about it. But like when did farming start mixing in with law books and immigration? not like the most natural
Kristin Aquino-Pham: progression ,
Just tell me all the things.
I had always liked the idea of having a farm, like from when I was a little kid. Okay. Mo many little kids liked the idea of having animals and, going to a farm, milking a cow and all that. And I was one of those kids, but I always, told myself and my husband, I really want to have a farm one day when we retire.
not live on it all the time, just like a nice little farm with animals. And we would have, maybe we'd have some, a family that lived there to help take care of it. But we can go visit and we could, go pick our own eggs and milk a cow when we felt like it. And then we would go back to the city.
I I had all these ideas of how I would spend my retirement years. and then 2020 happened and,think everyone almost started to reevaluate, life and priorities and [00:09:00] time. what, how much time do we actually have to do the things that we set out to do or that we say we want to do?
And I just started looking at farmland and it was also a good time,real estate wise, because interest rates was, was low. And I found, a small piece of property that I thought would be a good fit. It was just two acres. And I was like, okay, I'm going to try this out.
I'm going to try out this farming thing. And I went ahead and bought it and at the time I was working full-time as a lawyer at a big corporate, multinational firm. And financially I could afford it,to buy this property. So I said, this is also a good investment.
it doesn't work out. At least I have, I've invested in some land and some property. but what happened is it really worked out. I really enjoyed, being able to work the land. I got some chickens and I got some goats, and then I got some pigs and then some sheep and a couple cows.
[00:10:00] And so,
Life Leaps Podcast: Before there were chickens, pigs, sheep, cows. Before there was that, there was this idea, and I need to hear more. So you are working full-time at this corporate place, COVID hits, and you're like, you know what? I'm just gonna buy a farm.
what is your husband saying? What is your family saying?
Kristin Aquino-Pham: had two kids as all the time. Yes. Three, Three kids. Okay.
Life Leaps Podcast: so what is everybody else in your life saying?
Or have you even shared the
Kristin Aquino-Pham: idea yet? I shared it as, as soon as I started looking, I shared it. my husband was. I don't know, 2020 was such a weird year that I think I could have said that I was, planning to buy shares of the moon, or buy a seat on whatever the rocket ship that's going to the moon and nobody would've really quashed in it.
we were dealing with the kids in virtual learning, school shutting [00:11:00] down, what do we do with them next kind, all of that, which, a lot of people know about. And, and then my husband, he owns his own business and he was, he was like, I can't stop. And so he was moving forward as if.
Not as if nothing was happening, but a little bit as if nothing was happening. I think that was his way of coping. . And so when I said, oh, I'm going to look at farmland, he was just like, okay, I guess that, that's what makes you happy. So I think it was actually a really good time for me to approach this whole thing, this whole idea of having a farm, because it was just such an odd year that I think you could have thrown anything at anyone, and they would've just said, okay, whatever.
if this keeps you sane during this time, then fine. and also, my husband didn't worry about it as much from a financial perspective because I was, gainfully employed in this, law firm. And I'd been in these big law firms for, most of my career.
And so he knew, okay, she's comfortable. She can afford [00:12:00] this. No biggie. and the kids were excited, of course, for them, this was like, not only were they not really going to school in a real sense, , they were also like getting to, buy, go with me to buy goats that they, and they never interacted with goats before
So they were going all over Georgia to the most remote parts of Georgia to go pick up goats and put them in our car. ,
Life Leaps Podcast: had you ever interacted with goats before?
Kristin Aquino-Pham: , what are your qualifications here? I have no qualifications for being a, I didn't at the time had, I had no qualifications for being a livestock farmer.
I had a, I had a dog. I've had a dog. I have had hamsters and, gerbils. but I have never had a goat. Now I did. I always been,
very friendly with animals and comfortable with them, but I have no, no prior experience owning livestock . So I love it. I
Life Leaps Podcast: did Did you know at the time that you were going to, as a [00:13:00] result, end up scaling back your work significantly, spending most of your time on the farm, becoming a farmer, like starting a business, doing all the things you're doing now, did you have any idea, or were you just dabbling or saying one foot in front of the other?
Like what was your vision if you had one?
Kristin Aquino-Pham: I was pretty much dabbling. really,I didn't even know if I wanted to focus on animals or on plants. Honestly. I had grown a garden before, but I was, I think my vision was to grow or raise enough food for just my family and me.
because I did, as like 2020 progressed and then we got into 2021, then there started to be all the talk about. Food supply chain. And then some people thought the apocalypse was going to happen . And so I was like, I'm not, I don't go that far, but I do like to be prepared.
I like to be self-sufficient in general. So I was like, oh, maybe I'll grow my own stuff. I think if, as far as vision goes, that was really as far as it went. but, I, because I am pretty [00:14:00] like a natural entrepreneur and that's just always been my, my thing is like oh, I have a business idea.
I saw opportunity to start a business after I bought the land and started dabbling. I started getting, some animals I got chickens and they were laying eggs and they said, oh, we are getting way too many eggs, more than we can eat, so I think I should start selling eggs.
And then it just snowballed from there, to selling, vegetables maybe, and then just selling meat, , all kinds of meat, which is what I focus on now. So it was not,I hope,it probably sounds very, I don't know if it sounds immature or irresponsible, but really I went into it with the idea, like just to try it and to dabble and see what I liked.
yeah,
Life Leaps Podcast: I think most people who say they had a singleminded vision for something in their life, Are probably either exaggerating or they're going back and connecting a bunch of scattered dots later on to bring [00:15:00] purpose. Cause humans are purpose and meaning creating creatures. And so it sounds to me like you're just being very honest, like you're doing and probably in a much lower stressed way than someone who is convinced they have a vision at the front end.
sometimes you're describing what you were doing. Ok. . So where are you selling this stuff at first are like farmer's markets
Kristin Aquino-Pham: or in Atlanta or in, so in Atlanta. So I'm glad you brought that up because that was my. Aha moment was that
I was always traveling back and forth and I had access to farm fresh products, like, like eggs and eventually vegetables and things that I grew on the farm and I was always coming back to Atlanta and I, so I had this ready market of people who were looking for farm fresh items. a lot of folks now are interested in supporting local farmers, but we don't have farms next door in Atlanta, right?
But now I was able to actually bring the farm, fresh products to Atlanta with very little. inconvenience to myself because I was coming back [00:16:00] here anyway. And so that was actually where the, that moment came in where I said I could make a business out of this. So my first market was really, my first customers were our neighbors,family members.
so with eggs for example, there, I mean there are obviously laws that cover, selling these things and I was selling, a few dozen eggs at a time. I wasn't too worried about whether I needed some kind of license or anything like that. And my kids would set up a little table outside on our driveway and we got a bale of hay and brought it down and they'd sit on it and they'd put up a little sign that said Family Farmer's Market.
And, oh my God. You know how everyone has neighborhood groups now on Facebook or Next door or any of these things? So we just, I just post a picture of my kids with dozens of eggs in front of them. It said Farmer's market. and people would just come and grab eggs, , and go. So that was how we started selling them.
and we have, it was, it's been really good because they also, my kids are also very entrepreneurial. and I don't know if that's my influence or if [00:17:00] they're born that way, or a mixture of both, but it just started out as that, just a fun thing for us to do together during the pandemic
and something different. And we're providing a good to people that they actually really wanted and needed.
so yeah, that's how it started.
Life Leaps Podcast: So when and how? Cause it hasn't been that long. maybe it feels like a lifetime for you now, . Yes. But 2020 wasn't that long ago. No. at some point you leave your big law job and now you're doing contract work.
That's a big transition and a risk. And then obviously at some point you move from just selling eggs to you were running a farm and you're spending 60% of your time there and grabbing a couple of spare eggs when you chickens lay them is a far cry from now you're producing meat.
that's a big operation,what is the in between ?
Kristin Aquino-Pham: I will say, so the, there was a pivotal moment, that's really important for this story, which is that,I didn't leave my big law firm job. I lost my job. [00:18:00] And that was last year. So 2022. and at that point I had been farming, I owned the farm for about almost two years.
And in my law career,in big law firms, you get to a point where you have to decide if you wanna stay forever and be a partner and do all the partner things, or if you want to, scale back and take a different path. And I had realized how much I loved farming and I really thought that I wanted to take a different path.
and there were other things. the work environment that, I just wasn't sure that corporate, environments in general were the thing for me anymore, and so I was really questioning, even before I lost my job, I was questioning whether I should farm full-time.
And then I said, nope, that doesn't really make that much money, if any, at all, . and then I thought, maybe I'll go into government, or maybe I'll go into non-profit, or maybe I'll go in-house, which is also corporate, but maybe, it's not law firm. And I was [00:19:00] having those conversations, which I think, which I found that most of us professionals, not just lawyers, we have those conversations with ourselves every, so often.
Some of us, maybe more often than others. But yeah, I was having a lot of those conversations with myself and with my, husband, with my boss, my mentors. I was talking with them about that. And I think that, losing my job was very unexpected, andI'm not ashamed to say that it was a hardship and it hurt me.
it did not feel good at all. and so I, I think though that it was the best thing that could have happened to me because it provided me with a clear path forward. so by the time I, I knew that I was leaving that particular employer I had, two things that I knew for sure.
One is that I wanted to keep farming and I wanted to do livestock farming and meat production. I'd figure that out pretty [00:20:00] quickly with my. With my first property that I just really liked working with animals more so than growing plants for sale, or vegetables. And then the second thing that I knew for sure was that, I, I wanted to have something, whether it was in law or in farming, I have something that I could, feel proud of that I was a part of building as opposed to just clocking in and answering to somebody else all the time.
. And, and I decided, I think that if I hadn't lost the job, I might've just said, okay, this is the safer route and money-wise, this is safer. And I'll just keep paying on a farm manager like I've been doing, and I'll just keep, keep my head down and do my work so that I can just keep making the money to invest into the farm.
but then I never would've, I might not have taken the leap to go out and really do it myself. Yes. and now what I've found is that [00:21:00] because I had no prior experience with livestock, I mean me being able to jump in, and do it myself, be there, there was a time when I was there almost every day that was the best learning experience I could have had.
and or it is the best learning experience, honestly, cuz I'm still learning. I
YouTube can only go so far. , I learned a lot on YouTube, but it doesn't really help until you actually do it yourself, And so as much as it was a very difficult time, it was difficult to, to lose a job. I think that it was also a blessing. and it it forced me to make a choice, . And so Wow. And so I did, and I'm glad, and I'm also very, I think it also happen in a, at a good time, because I'm I'm experienced as a lawyer and I had built a lot of relationships over the past, 12, even in law school, right?
You built a lot of relationships as a lawyer. And because of that has actually helped my ability to get contract work [00:22:00] because people know me and they trust me. and for a lawyer to trust you with their clients is a big deal. I don't never take that lightly. And so I, I think that, it couldn't have happened at a better time, honestly.
So that's,I guess a long answer, but
Kristen,
Life Leaps Podcast: that is such a powerful, sorry, backing up to like the, your job that is such a powerful part of the story and one that I didn't know and
That actually it sounds like pushed you closer to what you really feel like you're meant to be doing or really want and wanted to be doing. And you may not have done it otherwise.
it's almost like this new life of yours was forged by fire and things out of your control pushed you to take more into your control what you wanted to do.
Kristin Aquino-Pham: Which is fine. That's right. that's [00:23:00] exactly right. And and it's really, liberating because especially when you get into,and this is a conversation for different podcasts, the structure of law firms especially control is a thing, right? . It's something that, and it's very liberating to have, some control over my day-to-day and really my time and also like my values, what I'm working for, how it's being done.
how you mentioned my interns, you know how pe the people who are on my team are being treated, the resources they're being given, are they being empowered? Like I actually have control over that. and that, is really meaningful to me. And you're right, it was, it didn't feel great but now that I look back,there was a reason I think.
so yeah, that's a part. you know, it's hard to put that in a, like on my, website or whatever, but I, but I do, when, whenever people ask, I'm not so brave that I left Big law [00:24:00] on my own and said I'm going to go be a farmer
I wasn't that brave. but, I'm bravely pushing forward now. so I say
Life Leaps Podcast: Christian, but you are brave enough. Were and are. Plenty of people get fired and you, I am certain, 12 years into practicing law, 12 minutes into practicing law last summer could have found another law job.
You could have kept doing what you were doing with all of your time like you were before, and you still made a choice, not that's still brave.
Okay, with that new perspective, I'll say speak. Speaking of that choice you made, so you take two paths. Number one, you start ginning up sort of contract work, I guess you're looking with to other lawyers you interacted with in the past, and you're saying, look, I can lend myself out on an hourly basis to keep pulling in money to.
Keep my foot in the legal world. And then on the other side of that, you're [00:25:00] like, I've been doing this farm part-time, paying a farm manager and doing it with like eggs and maybe and vegetables. And I know that I wanna really dive in and specialize in the meat thing. So you're taking two new tracks
Kristin Aquino-Pham: at once, is that right?
yeah, pretty much.
I, I am still doing law, about 40% of my time. cuz I, there's this little thing that I've found that I need, which is called Money . It is just such, it is , it's the bane of my existence. I think if I could, trade eggs for things, I would be a much, much less stressed person.
But, I do still practice law a little bit. I still have my license. I do contract work for, various firms that might need just an extra set of experienced hands and an experienced brain.
it's definitely very different, than what I'd been used to, which was collecting a paycheck, having health insurance, all those things set up for me and coming to me like regularly.
Life Leaps Podcast: But that has actually been a [00:26:00] really good fit for me because I am very entrepreneurial.
Kristin Aquino-Pham: So I've been able to, go out there and. Set my, my terms and my prices and work with people that I, have a good relationship with. and I've been really fortunate because I had these relationships already in Atlanta with other immigration lawyers and they just, they saw on LinkedIn that I'd posted that I was, going into this farming thing, but was doing some contract work and they reach out and they're like, Hey, I would love to have you do this thing for me.
I can't do it. Can you do it? I trust you. I know you, I know you do a good job.
but I think. the good thing about it is that I have the freedom to say, I can't take that right now. But, a freedom I'm sure
Life Leaps Podcast: you did not have working at a big law firm.
No. Right now my plate's feeling a little full. So
Kristin Aquino-Pham: not a thing fill it more. No. Yeah, that was definitely, I, it's funny too cuz you know, you, when you're, a young lawyer, right? You just, you [00:27:00] absolutely never can say, I can't take any more. you say Yes, please give me more, I need more
yeah. And then it doesn't get any better as you become a seasoned attorney. And then so it is pretty nice to be able to say, this is not something that I can handle and I appreciate. now I can say I feel comfortable saying, that's not something that I feel. comfortable handling on my own,
and not feeling guilty about it. Yeah, that's,
Life Leaps Podcast: And so, there hasn't been as much hustle, I would say, on the side of the contract work, more of the hustle and the sales and the trying to get myself out there has been on the meat selling side,
Kristin Aquino-Pham: most of my time now, like you said, is spent, managing my farm.
Life Leaps Podcast: So speaking of the resources and the hustle, The meat stuff. , what drove you? you were very confident and like I wanted to do meat production. what drove you to do that?
Kristin Aquino-Pham: at the risk of sounding a little bit creepy, I, I slaughtered [00:28:00] some meat for my family when I, very early on, in, when I got my first property. So I, and I should mention that I grew from having two acres and I I moved to a new property that's 24.
Acres. oh, wow. I heard you
Life Leaps Podcast: earlier. You said first property and I made a mental note. I was like, first
Kristin Aquino-Pham: property . Okay, so you've already grown. yes. I knew, I l figured out pretty quickly that, and with livestock farming, having enough space is, will help keep some of your feed costs down.
but I, so I slaughtered some, some meat with my brother, my older brother, he's a hunter. He is been hunting most of his life and he showed me how to process an animal and there was just something about it that was so organic and, and almost spiritual to me. and so I just really enjoyed being a part of that, being a part of this is something that I raised and now I am, I am, taking its life, but I'm doing [00:29:00] it in a way that, I feel thankful for it.
I'm not, I don't look at it as a commodity. Yeah. I look at it as something that's giving me, that's doing something for me by feeding me. and I guess maybe having control over that, knowing that it was me doing it and not somebody else, or some machine, some heartless machine, I guess I should say.
And then, and then I got to, after we slaughter, butchering and learning all the different parts and cuts of meat, I, there's something about that I really enjoy. It's almost like a, like therapy for me. . That's why I risk, I realize I'm sounding a little creepy, but. once you see the body, of an animal and you realize how complex this system is and how well everything works together and it's just, there's just something about that, that, that really moved me
Life Leaps Podcast: and you mentioned, when you and I briefly spoke before this episode one of your big taglines was, one bad day. And you told me that, look, that wasn't just my phrase, that's something that's spoken in the farming community, but that it [00:30:00] stuck with you your animals are pasture raised, they're humanely raised, they're living better than 99%.
I'm making the percentage up, but I have a feeling . the 99.9% of the animals, that are farmed in the United States for the living well, they're raised well and your whole goal was they will have one bad day and that one bad day is the day that, they'll pass
it's just that one bad day. And you were saying that you really wish there were more farms like yours because. the animal's quality of life is significantly different. and
Kristin Aquino-Pham: that was important to you? Yes. Yeah. the, that phrase I heard it from, I've gotten to know many farmers in the past, couple years, and that's how they describe it.
the slaughter day, just very matter-of-factly, oh, they're gonna have their one bad day today. . And, yeah, it spoke to me, that, like I'd mentioned, I didn't have any experience with livestock, but I've always been very comfortable with animals. And so the thought that, [00:31:00] that we can have some say in, how the animals that we raise for food are treated in their lives and in their death.
I don't know, some, there's something revolutionary about it to me. And I think also, in 20 20, 20 21, there was such a feeling of like loss of control. as people that we just, we, I felt we were, it was like we are having the one bad day far too often , like people were right.
and not just in the sense of death, but in the sense of just everything felt like it was falling apart and we didn't have any control over it or any say. And, I was, I thought to myself like, if we could just, this is one piece of life, the meat that, that I consume, my family consumes.
If I could just have a little bit of say in how this goes, it felt very empowering, and not just on my side as the human but also on the side of, once I started to research more about how meat production is done, I realized that it's also,there's a little bit [00:32:00] more, power in it for the animal, right?
wow. and I will say, these are all like, I am not the only farmer who follows these methods and that, that philosophy, but, one thing that all is also not lost on me and that I take very seriously is that I recognize that I'm a woman and a woman of color who's in a business that is not, that people like me don't really occupy.
and we're definitely not the, generally the owners we're generally, the workers, the employees. And so it, it's important to me to do it well and to set some kind of a standard because I recognize that I'm not, there aren't many of me trying to get into meat production, and so I, yeah, I, that's another reason why I, take it very seriously the way that I do things on the farm matters,
Life Leaps Podcast: how has it been for you occupying that space? what you've been doing is so new in so many ways, right? Like it's new for you personally. and like you [00:33:00] said, not only is it new for you personally, but you are new for it.
Kristin Aquino-Pham: meaning like the industry,
Life Leaps Podcast: it has definitely been both positive and negative.
Kristin Aquino-Pham: And since, I've definitely had my experiences of, getting strange looks,just in terms, just when I wanna walk into a feed store and some rural part of Georgia, not in, no one's been openly, I've only had one experience where someone was openly hostile to me.
and I, I have a blog on my farm website that I it's just for my random musings. It's more for, it's just more of my outlet. But, I talk about that one, I knew the feeling. Yeah. , I just started. You need have an outlet. I, yes. Nobody reads it. Maybe two people will
Life Leaps Podcast: read it and one of them, maybe my mom's read it.
Kristin Aquino-Pham: I, that's exactly, I hear you. That's exactly what it is. That's exactly what it is. And so I write about that one experience. And, but other than that, people have been very, very civil.[00:34:00] All the way to friendly and kind. but have gotten weird looks and I've gotten slight, where, someone has said to me, I don't know how you do things where you're from, but this is how we do them.
And I'm, and I want to say I'm from Chicago. I'm from Elgin, Illinois, , that's where I was born. but so that's this sort of been the more, the negative, which it hasn't been as bad as, some may imagine it to be. but then on the positive side, which I see I try to see more of, is that I have received really good reception from other minority, men and women, teenagers.
Who live in in LJ who know that I own a farm. And they've said, oh, you own the farm, and it's, they, it's, they had trouble they're try, they're like putting it together and they're piecing each other she looks like a little like me, and she's a, she and she owns this, the farm.
And she's actually the farm owner. and also she's clearly [00:35:00] raising me, not just, growing herbs or whatever, because maybe they would think that's more traditionally something that a woman would do is have a vegetable garden or whatever. But, anyway, it's just, I think it's causing them to like, Rethink stereotypes, which I think is good, right?
Yeah. and
Life Leaps Podcast: I should mention, because obviously people who are just hearing your voice, I guess they can tell you're a woman, you are Filipino American,
Kristin Aquino-Pham: Yes. Filipino. So both my parents are just a podcast and
Life Leaps Podcast: no one can see,
Kristin Aquino-Pham: Oh, that's right.
Hear that you're
Life Leaps Podcast: a woman . I guess I'll put your photos on social media. you're a woman of color, but Yes. Got it.
Kristin Aquino-Pham: yeah, so it's, I don't take that lightly,
whoever I encounter,I hope that when, if they ever aspire to something like owning a livestock farm or being a butcher or, whatever, owning land or just
Life Leaps Podcast: entering a space where people who look like them have not entered
Kristin Aquino-Pham: before Period. Right That they'll feel like, okay, maybe I can do it and it's not going to be, it'll be hard, but it won't necessarily be, a nightmare.
[00:36:00] and so it's not lost on me that that is my role, especially now. I was, my complete happenstance, I was on this TV show in l j. my realtor who helped me find the new property I'm at, she has this TV show, and she said, oh, I want you to be on my show one day.
And I actually didn't know it was a TV show. I thought it was a radio show. And I showed up and with pretty much looking like this, headband t-shirt. I love it in my, oh, I had on overalls actually that day. And then I said, you have two braids right now. Two braids. I'm two pig tails, by the way.
It's
Life Leaps Podcast: spinning the, but also like adorable
Kristin Aquino-Pham: glasses. So you just, I can't afford contact lenses. Thank you. I can't afford my contact lenses right now, so I'm just wearing my glasses.but she did this whole thing about me and it turned out a lot of people watch her show in the North Georgia Mountains.
And so I've actually had the three or four, instances where some stranger has come up to me and they've said, I saw you on [00:37:00] tv. you're that lawyer, farmer, girl, .
I found that, the community there, they've come to figure out that okay, she's, maybe she's just figuring out what to do.
cuz there's clearly the guys at the feed store know that there are a lot of things I don't know. But I feel like we've grown a mutual respect, they respect the fact that I'm trying.
Life Leaps Podcast: that's very powerful and so cool. I love it. What you mentioned the hustle and the business side and you mentioned earlier like I'm, Turing, this meat to feed my family. You are not now just feeding your family, you are selling it. You are running a small commercial operation, which is feeding other people and growing.
So what is the current status of what you're doing
Kristin Aquino-Pham: and where it's headed?we so I have sold out of all the meat that we can produce this year, it's only February, so that is very, it's, we've, we, I, so I did pre-sales,of expected meat,
And, and we just actually finished. I, like last [00:38:00] night I was up very late, or I should say early this morning, packaging, goat meat, because we sold, about 260 pounds of goat meat. And wow. Yeah, it's been,
my vision is really to always stay this size.maybe do an extra1000 or 2000 pounds of meat in the year.
But I don't really want to get much bigger than that, to be honest.
what I'm hoping to do, is to say small and to just produce the best quality meat that I can.
but also I would like to figure out how to lower the price so that it can be more affordable because. Right now, I do only organic grass fed pasture rays and it's expensive to raise animals that way. It sounds weird because they're eating grass, but keeping them safe and alive out when they're living out of confinement is actually quite difficult.
And so I would love to figure out how to make that work, but then I would love to be able to get a point where I even accept food stamps [00:39:00] for really high quality meat, and I just don't know the answers to that. I know that they're very smart people who work on stuff like that.
I'd love to connect with them when I'm ready. you are one of them. Yeah. , I'm one of the farmers and there are all these great groups But yes, I would love to be one of those people that is in that conversation trying to figure that out.
Okay.
Life Leaps Podcast: I have two rapid fire questions I
Kristin Aquino-Pham: have to ask, of course, that I ask
Life Leaps Podcast: everyone. Any points so far where, you just wish you had turned back or had a moment where you were like, oh my God, what am I doing? I should have just applied for that next law job. kept my head down and had a farm manager.
Kristin Aquino-Pham: yes. Oh yes, there was definitely,I've gone through a couple of farm manager or three or four farm managers. Not all of them because they left or because I let go of them. it was really just bad circumstances. And there was a period when one le [00:40:00] left, and then another one.
Didn't work out, and I just felt so overwhelmed and at the time I still had my law job and I just, I really did think about giving up. and I will also add, the spirit of authenticity, which, and I, just keeping it real. My husband, also, had struggles during Covid with his business and, we've had a lot of really intense discussions about the farm and we haven't always agreed.
We, we've definitely butted heads a lot and even my kids have said that,da daddy and mommy fight about the farm too much. And, and there were moments when that was def those were definitely moments when I thought maybe I should just stop. but we've figured it out. We've come to a place where we both can be happy with it.
so I, we just had to ride through that moment,
Life Leaps Podcast: But thank you for sharing that because on the money side, I think a lot of people, are in, might hear that, your husband, oh, he has a business. Oh, he is [00:41:00] still working. Obviously he must, they must be very comfortable, he's been growing all this.
If she's able to just dabble around and play and have fun. And if that's the case for someone, no judgment, that's great for you. but you've shared now that no, this is not just like a casual endeavor. This is something that like, was a financial risk and at times a strain. and, I think that's important.
Yes. what did keep you going during the moment? The struggle or during the downs or, ah,
Kristin Aquino-Pham: I'm,That's a good question. I'm like, insanity. maybe a little bit of insanity. I've, I, have strong faith in, I know I can't, that was really the first answer that came to mind.
I I have strong faith in God. so I believe in a higher power. And, and I do believe that there were, there's, there were signs, of things going well and things working out as they should, even if it didn't feel good, like the whole job loss thing.
And so I think to myself that is, that, that kept me going. And I guess the third part, it was just,[00:42:00] just being so deeply invested at this point, right? Like I have all these animals and yes, I could just turn around and sell them, Or I could, I technically, I guess I could eat them all
but I'm not quite ready to do that yet. and then I have a mortgage and I have, I guess it's that sense of responsibility for all these living things and then this contract that I have to maintain this to own this property and continue to pay it for it on time and all of that.
And so,I think that also keeps me going.
Life Leaps Podcast: Kristen, is there also, you mentioned that it was like therapeutic for you when you actually were in there doing the thing. is there still the strong sense of The why. Oh yes. That keeps you going because, we all have obligations and we all can, if it makes sense to get rid of them, then in the end, if it, if the reasons to not go forward or strong enough, then like most of us will cut losses.
And you haven't done that. So there must be something in you that's like still really ticking and [00:43:00] still really gets a lot of purpose and meaning. Maybe I'm projecting, but is that
Kristin Aquino-Pham: still there? It's definitely still there. Yes. IYeah. it's hard to feel the why unless I'm out on the farm when I'm there.
The why I got it feel it so strongly and it re-energizes me. I come back to Atlanta and then I'm like, oh, these bills are due, or, whatever. And then I'm like, now I don't feel the why as much. So then it's the other things that I mentioned that kind of fill in. And make me keep going.
Yeah. But yes, no, when I'm out on the farm and I'm interacting with the animals and I'm, scooping, poop, or whatever I'm doing, I'm covered in mud. I cannot find a happier place for myself to be, to be honest. And it just, there's something about it that I love. And, And so I think that's the why is definitely still there.
It's just, it's an LJ , the why is an lj, which is yeah. Which is fine. because, there's a, there are a lot of other, motivating factors here in Atlanta too. but yeah, it's,[00:44:00] I'm just appreciative of people who are interested in knowing about this journey and taking time to listen to it and who don't think I'm crazy, or if you don't think it in a negative or judgmental way.
Life Leaps Podcast: good Carroll quote is like something about. The craziest people are
Kristin Aquino-Pham: the best.
All. I think I remember that secret.
Life Leaps Podcast: I dunno. I'll up.
final thing is you had heard, or that someone had said to you, or that you just wanna share to other people considering life leaps, entering new spaces,anything that you would like to share
Kristin Aquino-Pham: I was lucky that, I just didn't hear a lot from growing up in terms of you can or you can't, like I heard things from people who said I wouldn't make a good lawyer. But I think what I wish that I had,
listened to, because I'm sure that I was told,
because I feel like someone's gonna hear us be like, I told her, and, but I did. Let's, so what I wish I had listened to is [00:45:00] that,when you take a life leap, you're bringing other people with you.
once you've decided to involve other people in your life, right? Spouse, kids, . and I wish that I had listened a little more,when people said, you need to make sure that you're communicating well with the people that have chosen, that you've chosen to be part of your life and been open with them about the entire situation, when it comes to making big life choices.
Because,this isn't the, this isn't the first time that I've tried to have my own business. I dabbled in that briefly a few years ago, not in the same way and not as intensely . and I made some mistakes. my husband and I as growing as a couple, we didn't speak openly about.
any of it and just kind of move forward. It, I treated it as one of those things, like when I go, when you go sh back when I used to be able to go shopping and I would buy something, I'd come home, be like, and I'd be like, oh, I just bought a little something. [00:46:00] It was on sale. I would say that to my husband, but it wasn't actually on sale.
I don't know if you . Yeah, I'm one of those, if you're out there, , so I'm, I treated even , I would treat even like big life decisions that way sometimes in the past. And you with life leaps, it's not like that, you know? And so all of that to say is that when you choose a path, you choose the people in your life, you're all going together or you're not.
and I I should have been better about carrying the other people along with me as I chose to do that. it's been a difficult period, in general for many couples.
And families sit in the past, oh my God, four years not, putting the farm and everything else aside. So it's just, that's the one thing that stuck out in terms of,challenges and then also just advice that I wish that I'd internalized.
it's one
Life Leaps Podcast: thing to not let the people around you in the universe doubt you and chart your own path. But it's also another thing to be like, your immediate stakeholders, your immediate [00:47:00] family, your spouse, your kids, the people who are gonna be impacted to really get their buy-in and Then stay in communication
Kristin Aquino-Pham: as you're going through all of that.
That's exactly right. And one thing I've definitely learned with farming for sure is it's best done, like not alone. It's a collaborative effort cuz it's a big lift. And I'm grateful that, my husband, my kids, my mom, my immediate fear of influence is supportive of it.
because there would be no fulfillment in it if I was just me by myself and I'm just doing this and nobody else who cares what everybody else thinks. so yeah, that's, that would be my answer to that question. .
Life Leaps Podcast: I don't think anybody said that yet. And it could not be more true. So thank you
Kristin Aquino-Pham: Thank you. Thank you. And thank you for taking the time. You have been amazing.
Life Leaps Podcast: Thank you all for being here. We're a brand new podcast, so if you enjoyed it, go ahead and follow rate and review us in your podcast app so that we [00:48:00] can know what you liked and others can find us. It would mean a lot. Last but not least, we'll keep you posted on brand new episodes each week when you follow us on Facebook or Instagram at you Guessed it like LEAPS podcast.
Till next time.
next Wednesday on Life Leaps Podcast.
Liliya Reshetylo: Yeah. I was talking to other moms just asking,
do you talk to kids about clothes? Like, how do you talk to them about like, is it something you even bring up? like how do I even start this conversation?
I started meeting the people who helped me on this crazy new adventure of mine, and I am just a couple of weeks away or less from launching the brand. So I love it.
Life Leaps Podcast: Till next time.