Sara and Nick Windschitl moved their family of five across the world intending to stay for only a short time and - four years later - realized that that leap was only the beginning. In Ep. 21, the couple reflects on:
They also reflect on how their faith and their relationship with each other played a role in all these changes with - as usual - insights for the rest of us considering making life changes.
Episode 21 of Life Leaps Podcast is live now! Learn more about this podcast and your host's own leap-in-progress here.
Follow Sara and Nick's journey at https://thaischitls.wordpress.com and learn more about the school they founded in Chiang Mai, Thailand - The Nest International School - here.
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Have guest ideas? Can't wait to hear what leaps will be next?
Subscribe to Life Leaps Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts! Follow, rate and review us - we're *brand new* so, it means a lot - and be the first to know when we launch new episodes each week:
*ACCESSIBILITY: Transcripts are available for each episode here. (Just click your episode of choice, and then click the "transcript" tab! And if you have any issues at all don't hesitate to reach out.)
Sara and Nick Windschitl moved their family of five across the world intending to stay for only a short time and - four years later - realized that that leap was only the beginning. In Ep. 21, the couple reflects on:
They also reflect on how their faith and their relationship with each other played a role in all these changes with - as usual - insights for the rest of us considering making life changes.
Episode 21 of Life Leaps Podcast is live now! Learn more about this podcast and your host's own leap-in-progress here.
Follow Sara and Nick's journey at https://thaischitls.wordpress.com and learn more about the school they founded in Chiang Mai, Thailand - The Nest International School - here.
*Sponsored Content*
***
Have guest ideas? Can't wait to hear what leaps will be next?
Subscribe to Life Leaps Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts! Follow, rate and review us - we're *brand new* so, it means a lot - and be the first to know when we launch new episodes each week:
*ACCESSIBILITY: Transcripts are available for each episode here. (Just click your episode of choice, and then click the "transcript" tab! And if you have any issues at all don't hesitate to reach out.)
Sara Windschitl: [00:00:00] A lot of people say when I retire I'm gonna travel. Do some of those things that you're working for in the future. do some of those things now, especially if you have kids.
Life Leaps Podcast: Welcome to Life Leaps Podcast. Hear inspiring stories of ordinary people who made extraordinary life changes. What drove them, what almost held them back. Insights for the rest of us considering life leaps big or small, because hearing someone else do it reminds us that we can too.
Life Leaps Podcast: Happy Wednesday everyone! Today we're with Sarah and Nick Winkle, who moved their family of five across the world and tending to stay for only a short time and four years later, still aren't quite ready to come home. The couple reflects today on number one. What drove them to leave their comfortable lives in Minneapolis and how Sarah never actually thought she'd do it. Number two, how their kids handled the transition. Number three, how a surprise [00:01:00] hardship in their new lives forced them to make a choice about whether to pursue yet another long held dream. Hint, they took the leap. And number four, why doing hard things is more important than you might think. They also reflect on how their faith and their relationship with each other played a role in all these changes with as usual insights for the rest of us considering making life changes along the way.
Sara Windschitl: I grew up on the East coast. Nick is from Rochester, Minnesota and we met in Minnesota.
Nick Windschitl: and we met playing adult kickball. that's like perfect.
Life Leaps Podcast: I love
Nick Windschitl: it. I love it. you probably don't want me to tell you this, but she asked me to slap the bag of wine and drink some of the wine, and that was my first impression.
I was like, yep, I'm interested in
her.
Sara Windschitl: Life has changed a bit
Life Leaps Podcast: I love it. I love it. Okay, And were you guys in Minnesota up until you
you make this massive leap across the world? Yeah,
Nick Windschitl: that's pretty much where we were. We were Minneapolis, [00:02:00] Minnesota living. And I feel like there was a dream of moving abroad at some point for myself in particular, but I kind of like let that go because life happens and you have kids and we had kids who were micro preemies and we just were like, ah, I kinda let that go.
Life Leaps Podcast: you had twins, right? Was it twins? And they were premature. And that was really jarring for you guys. Jarring is probably an understatement.
Sara Windschitl: Yeah, it was a really big life event for us. we always knew we wanted kids. We never envisioned having twins and definitely never envisioned such like a traumatic start to parenthood.
but yes, we were very fortunate even though they were born very early, they're doing great now. they're 10 years old. Oh, super healthy. And we have a son who's now eight. And so yeah, we had our kids in Minneapolis.
we raised them there. And, we had both started our teaching careers in Minnesota and had been teaching. For 15 to 20 years. between the two of us at the same schools where we [00:03:00] started, we were like lifers at our schools. We were very dedicated. We loved our jobs, we really did.
Nick was in a great school district. I was in special ed and, yeah. And our kids, they started school in Nick's class. Our girls were in his kindergarten
Life Leaps Podcast: class. Wow. So Nick, you were a kindergarten teacher?
Nick Windschitl: That's right. Yeah.
But, we were looking for something different, looking for a change and I felt personally that it was, I was swimming upstream. I was spending so much of my life dedicated to Engaging kids and learning, being active in their learning and involving play and outdoor learning.
And I didn't feel like it was reciprocated. I felt the American educational system in general, it was like they wanna put you in a box and the box is four walls of a classroom.
And I was having kids outside and we were learning and super ultra engaged and learning everything and more. That is a part of the standards that we want our kids to learn but I think the [00:04:00] system in general just wants to. turn the page of a manual of the book and do a worksheet.
And for me personally, being passionate and creativity are things thatare my strengths. And I felt like I was just like slowly disappearing from that or losing hope that I could do that anymore.
Life Leaps Podcast: 19 years is a long time to feel like you're swimming upstream in a career you're really passionate about.
Nick Windschitl: And I didn't feel that forever. I just feel for, last five to 10 years, I that's where it was headed. very much. Data driven. And I do believe in that. but I don't necessarily believe all the testing that ha needs to happen.
and the checking of boxes and, a lot of these things are required and just not good for kids and teachers and parents.
And Sarah, was that a similar frustration that you had,
Sara Windschitl: Yes. my, my burnout and frustrations were very different than Nicks.
we had parallel experiences of burnout in very different ways. So I [00:05:00] was in a level four special ed school. I was in deaf education, which I loved. It's where I started my career. It's what I wanted, I knew I wanted to do with my life. I had great coworkers, a really supportive administration, but just, it was the system that was really dragging me down.
so much paperwork, lots of meetings, lot of extra roles that teachers were expected to take on. the students that I was working with had a lot of special needs, a lot of extreme behaviors, a lot of trauma. And I was experiencing a lot of compassion fatigue and I don't think I, I necessarily was able to articulate that's what it was at the time.
I think it took me, like moving away and stepping back to really realize that's what it was. I just thought, oh, I'm just like burnout as a teacher. and we did have really good support at my school.
We had a great mental health team. A lot more resources than most public schools have. And even with all the support we had, I was, all the teachers in my school, I was watching us all slowly just burn out.
And I [00:06:00] thought, I think this is the time our kids are young. how old were they was four and the were, and so they weren't really like deeply embedded in, friendships and activities and, things that would've been difficult to uproot them from. Of course Minneapolis was our home.
It was not easy to leave, but that time in their lives felt like a really good time. It felt like a good age. It felt like a good time in our career to just try something different and, we decided to move abroad.
Life Leaps Podcast: Sarah, you were the first one to say, it sounds like Nick had always had this dream and then when y'all had, very early traumatic.
Beginning of life for your first two kids. You then had another kid. you guys were entrenched in these very involved. Careers that you're passionate about, but that are obviously very draining, even in the best of circumstances. So you guys are right in the thick of it. So I hear you saying like it was a great time, but I think for a lot of people looking from the outsider who are sitting where you're sitting, it's not a great time.
It's like how did you [00:07:00] guys even have the capacity? Sarah, you were the first one to say it. what really happened there?
Nick Windschitl: Honestly,
When she said let's do it, I was like, I'm not asking any
Sara Windschitl: questions. when we were like getting to know each other, he's I would love to teach abroad someday. And I was like, yeah, that sounds great. I was like, I'm never doing that. You're
Life Leaps Podcast: like this guy,
Sara Windschitl: like so romantic.
And then we had kids and I was like, okay, now I'm definitely we're good. And then I don't know, I think it was divided intervention. I just felt really moved to make a change and it seemed like an hour never thing.
Life Leaps Podcast: so there's no one moment, Sarah, that you're like, aha. light bulb,
You just remember like a general feeling all of a sudden that now is a time,
Sara Windschitl: yeah, I don't think there was a moment. I think Okay. I'm the logistics person.
And in this couple, Like I'm a forward thinker, so I think and this was, when did we decide to do this? Like in the fall of the year before?
Okay. I think I'm like trying to picture myself starting another school year. We had just started a school year and I was [00:08:00] so excited. The girls were in Nick's class and Nick's class is like legendary, right? There are parents like request to be in his class.
Everyone knows Mr. He's like this character, right? And I'm like, oh, my kids finally get to be in Nick's class and it's their dad. it was super exciting and just knowing like how much people just revere Nick's educational philosophy and his style. And now I get to experience it as a parent, not just as his partner.
Yeah, I was so excited. But he's still like coming home and he's he's frustrated and he's not feeling really supported. He's I just feel like I wanna do these things, but I have to work so hard to get these ideas across. But the parents and the kids are like, Uber satisfied, And as a parent, I'm uber satisfied. My girls come home every day and they're over the moon about everything they did. And I'm like,why is there this disconnect? And I knew that I was burning out at my job and I knew [00:09:00] people who were burnt outta my job and who were still there.
And I was like, I don't wanna be, I don't wanna be there, Okay. I don't know, there wasn't a moment, but I think just knowing how great of an experience my kids were having in his class and like behind the scenes, how frustrated he was to be trying to deliver that kind of education, that was eye opening for me.
Life Leaps Podcast: You're like, there's gotta be another. Yeah. Okay. So you guys start, and in another way, you have found, so you guys start looking for, did you know you wanted to go to Thailand? Were you,
Nick Windschitl: here's the thing. I was literally like, wherever you wanna go, babe, let's do it. if you wanna go talk about Dubai and lots of places in countries and Sarah, we had so many friends, we were like, have you heard of Cheang Ma Thailand?
I'm like, no, I haven't, I have not heard of that. I'm not, I just, I couldn't pinpoint on a map of anything. And we had so many, we would go to kids' birthday party and oh, I lived in, if you think about teaching abroad, you should think of Thailand, Cheang Ma. [00:10:00] And it had four different people, four different couples kept saying this.
And finally, after we had gone through this, interviewing process with, finding placement abroad, teaching abroad, and we were getting ready to the following weekend to go down and find our placement. We went to his kids' birthday party and had the same situation, same conversation of a family who lived there and were like, okay, let's just go home tonight and just, let's just Google international schools, andt my Thailand,and we sent our information off.
And like literally a day or two later, we had interviews and two days later they were offering jobs. And Sarah I remember her telling me like, I'm like, wow, the salary is a little bit lower. And she was like, I just feel, I feel God's voice and presence and wanting us to go this direction.
And I'm like, all right, I wasn't hearing anything. And she's telling me now she's hearing, I'm like, okay, whatever. let's do this. And. Yeah, everything just kinda snowballed from [00:11:00] there.
Sara Windschitl: Yeah. We never really chose Thailand.
It fell into place for us. Wow.
Life Leaps Podcast: So you go, you managed to tackle, surmount, surpass, all of the logistical hurdles that are involved in moving, which is gargantuan
Sara Windschitl: yeah,
we sold or put in storage, like everything we had, we rented our house out. I mean our lives were there. it was a really big move. And at the same time, wrapping up our school years and also Looking for a job abroad and then looking for a place to live abroad and all of these things.
so the logistics were, they were hairy at the time.
Life Leaps Podcast: I am feeling you, we're doing this now, obviously with one small child. You guys had three. Okay. So I, I can't even,
And you settle, you start teaching, obviously we know there's a new chapter that happens, but before you even get there,
when the heck was your kids' reactions to all of this? I'm like,[00:12:00] Focused on you guys? Yeah. All the things like to moving abroad, adjusting like what
Sara Windschitl: I, we picked the golden age, honestly, it is the right age. They were just like up for the adventure.
Nick Windschitl: they were super excited and they didn't know what they didn't know.
They were like, these are things you get to see like really building up there's
Sara Windschitl: elephants. yeah, it's gonna be magical. And they were like, yes.
Nick Windschitl: there's stuff that they were interested in.
you get to go to this water park and they're like, yes
Sara Windschitl: and stuff. We hyped it up pretty big. Okay. For them, I think the biggest things were like, which toys do I have to sell and which toys go in storage and will they be here when I get back? they were at that age where like it, their world was really small.
Cool. And yeah. Those were their biggest like concerns. can I bring my love with me?
Life Leaps Podcast: I think they really fed off of our energy and it was an adventure for them. As long as we were like, Hey, we're gonna go do this, they were like, yes.
Sara Windschitl: And they, we made like expat friends when we moved here and that was a really helpful community for [00:13:00] us. And,they were just at a great age. They were really game for anything.
Their adjustment was really
Nick Windschitl: magical. I think how they adjusted to life here was way easier than how we adjusted. the first week we got here, we were like, okay, we need to find a house. We need to find, do a lot of things to get ourselves set up. And so our school's yeah, you can put 'em in this school adjacent to us.
And I was like, oh, okay, perfect. It's oh, it's summer. it's the summer academy or something like that. And we're like, okay, great. So we took our three children and put them into this Thai native Thai school where no English was spoken at all.
They would go to school and not hear English and they were the only
Life Leaps Podcast: Americans. I'm assuming none of y'all speak Thai, speak English. Like it's still
Nick Windschitl: speak any Thai. And we, they, when I felt such guilt. I'm like, okay, they don't, nobody else speaks English and they're gonna be, everybody else is speaking to I, [00:14:00] this is not gonna go well.
We picked them up at the end of the day and they're like, I like my teacher. She's nice. She smiles at me a lot and they were just like, so ha. I was. Okay. All right. I love it. Okay. Okay. We were like, I was feeling such guilt that day. That was really nice. And they stayed at the school for two weeks.
Sara Windschitl: it was like the middle of this school year. Like these kids had been there a whole semester.
Nick Windschitl: All of these kids are wearing, all of these kids are wearing Thai uniforms and our kids are wearing target clothes
Sara Windschitl: And like they, they just loved. That's great. Oh my God. And that might gave us some time
Nick Windschitl: even our son Brecken was like, yeah, she doesn't speak English, but she shows me pictures of Jing jokes, which are like, geckos and like that was all you connect.
Like just wow. And we all smile in the same language and they, that's what it meant to them. That was it. Like they were just, they knew that the person that was teacher that was kind and caring and that is what's really most
Life Leaps Podcast: important. How reassuring the resilience of these miniature people. I'm gonna, I need to remember that.
myself. [00:15:00] So resilient. Ugh.
And did they, was the plan, you're saying you're putting stuff in storage, was the plan to come back after a short time? Or you didn't know?
Sara Windschitl: Yeah, so we originally were like, we wanna do a one year run.
We're like one year, and we're coming back and we're looking at jobs in everything is a two year minimum contract. And we were like, oh my goodness. Two years. that's too long. That's a stretch. But we're like, okay.
And at the end of one year we were like, oh my gosh. Like one year would never have been enough. two years is definitely not gonna be enough.
Like we were already,this is gonna be a longer spoiler
Life Leaps Podcast: alert. How long has it been right now?
Sara Windschitl: we're in our fourth year. We're about to finish our fourth year. Okay.
And, a lot of our families still is disgruntled about
Life Leaps Podcast: that. I was gonna say, were friends and family supportive? what were they, are they saying
Sara Windschitl: they were very supportive and they are, but we definitely get the okay,
Nick Windschitl: stop a lot of questions about when are you coming back? And we [00:16:00] just spend step as well.
we'll just give you a one year advance. We're gonna keep doing this a year by year basis. Yeah. and of course our family wants us back and our kids and all of us just miss family and friends so much. but , for me personally, just like my friends who, my core guys, just kept telling me, Hey,
You're doing, you're creating a life and we're so happy for you and we support you at 100%. and that's been really important that like they have their blessing and approval and they're excited and It's almost like they're in some ways living vicariously through us.
Sara Windschitl: yeah, I think during the pandemic too, a lot of them were like, you're not missing anything.
Don't come home, stay abroad. And that was a hard time when we like, missed our people a lot more, but they were reassuring us with, they were like, we're not seeing anyone anyway, just stay there.
Life Leaps Podcast: So your core group, which is not always the case, really supported you and continues to it sounds like.
Sara Windschitl: Yeah, absolutely.
Nick Windschitl: was there like a high point, a low point for you all[00:17:00] in the early days?
Yeah. For me personally, like I loved traveled, I've always loved travel and I just. I thought in a lot of ways I'd go to Thailand and I would swim in this like uncomfortableness and just be I loved it.
like when I travel over the world, I would always be like, I like not knowing the language and struggling a little bit, but there's something changes when you realize that this is your reality for the next year or two. And for me, that's when I was like, Ugh, am I, what are we doing here? Is this right?
And it, there was some expect expectations that didn't live up to that, and so that was really hard. And I'm not one to ever be down, but I felt really down. And it was, from that four to eight month range, I just felt, what did I get myself into? Did I, did we make the right [00:18:00] decision?
Like really questioning a lot of things, just feeling really I miss everything about home. I miss my friends, I miss my support. Like you had, you're rebuilding your life. You have, you're finding new friends, you're finding new family abroad, and it really is a family. You have to find abroad. And, that's was really hard.
It was really hard, especially when you have it all back there. yeah, it was hard.
Life Leaps Podcast: What kept you going through those moments?
Nick Windschitl: Honestly, Sarah, she just kept listening to me and hearing me and trying to be the voice of reason. friends talking with friends abroad and, just working through stuff and also being able to talk to somebody who's, who's been, who's done it before and.
can help you process this. It's almost like grief, there's like a, there's grief and death and like leaving something, behind and starting completely anew in a really different place where you [00:19:00] don't speak the language and you know that when you leave the house and go out, that it's not gonna be easy.
They're not gonna understand you. You're gonna have to use translate apps and you're gonna have to use your hands a lot and something that you would normally do very quickly when you run to Target in and out, it's now gonna take you four or five times the amount of time to do that. it was just really hard and made me feel like, why do I even want to go out?
Why do I wanna go and do this? Cause I know that it's gonna be hard and it's gonna take a lot longer than I really want to. yeah, it's tired. It's hard. That part was
Sara Windschitl: hard. I feel you.
Nick Windschitl: But yeah, Sarah was listening and Al also what got me out of was like really learning the language and and luckily I'm in a place, we're in a place that, like Thailand is the land of smiles for a reason.
they're so kind and generous. And I had this fear like, I don't wanna make a problem. I don't want other people I don't want to make make this be an issue for them.
they were so amazing and really, help me and made [00:20:00] me realize that, you know what? I need to let go of some of that. Listen, I'm just gonna do my best and I'm gonna smile and I'm gonna play the dumb American really well. And yeah, and it always seemed to work out
Life Leaps Podcast: and Nick, I think you touched on something which is really like universal in many ways, which is, there's the glamor.
And the outside perspective of a leap, particularly one that involves travel, but often just a leap, right? look at them, they're jumping, they're making this big change. And of course some people are saying they're crazy, but a lot of people are like, oh my gosh. like they, it's amazing.
And again, there's the glamor from the outside and then there's what it feels like to be inside that picture frame, to be inside that video, that new life, that all the things and all the struggles that come with that. And there can be a real disconnect. And it's interesting also that you mentioned that, one thing that helped me get through, of course, also with Sarah, but.
[00:21:00] Talking to your friends and family that were really supportive and being like, look like you guys are doing this. You're building a life. We support you. You can do this. it's almost like also connecting those two worlds, like hearing and remembering what it can look like from the outside in some ways can also give you the perspective of okay, oh, okay.
And remember the things to appreciate. I don't know, it those resonated with me. Okay.
Nick Windschitl: and they really did. That's how we connected.
Sara Windschitl: and Sarah, did you have the same low points feelings or where are you in all of this Yeah, I think it's a lot of.
That early time, I felt like, we can't both be low at the same time. So I'm like, all right. I'm sure I will have my low points. Like right now we need like a bank account, we need cell phones, we have to get some furniture. Like I think,I'm just more of a doer and even though I was having a lot of the same anxiety and [00:22:00] grief that Nick probably was like, my coping was just to stay busy and get us set up.
And,knowing that we had a very short amount of time And so I think I just busy myself with those things, knowing that if I slowed down and thought about it, like it might.
Consume me. Yeah. So I think, yeah, in the beginning I don't, it wasn't, as much of an emotional struggle for me as like just the leg. The logistics I think sometimes got to be a lot. But, yeah, I think the harder parts for me came later.
Life Leaps Podcast: Okay.
Samson Q2U Microphone-6: Okay, so you make the move, you guys struggle. But obviously not so much that you decided to go home. Your kids, it sound like did swimmingly right away. Yes, they were great. And
Samson Q2U Microphone-7: then life threw.
Samson Q2U Microphone-6: Y'all a pretty big curve
Samson Q2U Microphone-7: ball.
Life Leaps Podcast: yeah So I'm teaching kids who, have mostly are from China and [00:23:00] who have moved here, moved to Thailand to go to this international school, but who have not quite met the English requirements. Okay. So I taught in that program for two years.
Sara Windschitl: It was great. I loved it. And then Covid hit and I was laid off from my position.
They closed my program because, travel was highly restricted in Thailand and so many of my students were from China. They couldn't get back into the country and there were not enough students to sustain this particular
Life Leaps Podcast: program at the school.
Sara Windschitl: yeah, this was days before the school year started,
Nick Windschitl: to back up a second, They had, we had said, hey, we had have a meeting. We're gonna have a meeting. Can you guys come in? And I just, two days before I even heard that we were having a meeting, I had, I heard God's voice saying, there's gonna be a meeting.
You're gonna go in and you're gonna say one of you is gonna lose, like, leave our job. And you're going to say, can she take my position? And I was like, this is crazy. But that's [00:24:00] exactly what happened. We went into this conversation and saying that your position been think eliminated.
Eliminated, basically. it's like, it's gone. And I'm like, all right, here we go. I'm jumping. I'm gonna take a leap again. can she take my position and can I leave? And they were like, yes. I'm like, okay.
Life Leaps Podcast: Wow. So, okay, so they called you two in together.
you're teaching in totally different departments, but of course at the same school and they know you're a couple, so I guess just anticipating this, they called the two of you in together To tell you that? Nick? Yeah. Okay. To tell you that Nick, your job remains, it's still there.
in kindergarten. Okay. Nick, your job is still there, but Sarah, yours is gone. We're sorry. and effective what? Like immediately effective next year. Like
what? like in five days? Wow. Okay. And Nick, you felt like you, you saw this coming [00:25:00] or you had like was a very, divine conversation, that you saw this coming.
Sarah, did you see this
Sara Windschitl: coming? No, I think, and this is how we work, like I could sense his anxiety about it and I was like, we don't know what's gonna happen in the meeting. let's cross that bridge and we get to it, like we'll figure it out. And,yeah, okay. That's how, yeah. Okay.
Life Leaps Podcast: In that it was
Nick Windschitl: just one of those, yeah,
go ahead. no. I was just gonna say in that moment when they say Sarah, your position's gone in five days, Nick, were you just immediately like, can you take my job? I had to, cause that's what I'm, like, I had already, I've already heard him say God, tell me like you're going to say, You have to say this.
And honestly, before I even left America to go to Thailand, I had already been thinking about starting my own school, doing something with education reform. Now, I definitely was not planning to start a school in Thailand. I was thinking like, let's go get a [00:26:00] reset in Thailand, something totally different, then come home and do something.
And, he had a different plan. And in a lot of ways I felt like I've been dreaming and thinking about this for so long. I'm gonna do this someday, I'm gonna do this. And it seemed to be a lot of talk in my head, But was it reality?
Sara Windschitl: No. I mean, people say one door closes, another one opens. And I think like in that moment we didn't really see it that way. It felt okay, this door is closing, this one's opening. and we felt pushed out of it, right? Like we, we knew that this was a dream of Nick's, but would we have ever really done it without being
Nick Windschitl: pushed?
Yeah. And it was a major push and I felt like God was saying like, like shit or got off the pot neck. You've been talking about this a lot and for a long time and it's time to do it now. During a pandemic, after the school, international school year had already started, not having a place to hold a classroom, build a school [00:27:00] like that was seemed crazy
Sara Windschitl: foreign country where foreigners are not in this country.
it's very difficult for foreigners to work unless you're a teacher or a missionary. Like they're Visa departments are very strict here. As many hoops as we would've had to jump through to start a school in America, for example. that was, that also seemed like an overwhelming undertaking.
and in the middle of Covid when everything is shut down and the schools have already started, they weren't, it didn't seem like an ideal time, but when is it was the o like it was the only time we ever could have really done it. We didn't have any other options and I was surprised it wasn't something Nick and I talked about before going into the meeting.
So when Nick was like, you know what, if I left, I was a little bit like, oh, okay, so go on this route. And so y'all
Life Leaps Podcast: hadn't discussed this, he in advanced that he No.
Sara Windschitl: Oh my gosh. But we, like when, I think the more it settled in and in that meeting is [00:28:00] really after that, like maybe this isn't as much of.
a layoff or a, a disaster than it is an opportunity. And yeah, it was not, wow. The circumstances weren't ideal, but what's grown out of it has really been, it's been amazing. And I don't think we would have done this had we not enforced into a situation
Life Leaps Podcast: forged by
Sara Windschitl: fire. Mm-hmm.
Wow.
Life Leaps Podcast: Okay. So you guys walk outta that meeting, and we all know that Nick ends up starting this amazing school, which we're gonna hear about, but like in this moment you guys walk out a meeting, are you just both? like Nick, did you walk out being like, don't worry, this is the plan. I'm gonna start a school, or were you both just kinda I was, what's next?
Nick Windschitl: Was scared. No confidence. I was scared shitless. I knew that. I'm like, and here, and I'm listening to God and praying to God every night. And he's I'm sensing his like, incredible. [00:29:00] Like his, he's so overjoyed with me. I'm, meanwhile, I am like, I'm pooping my pants. I'm like, what am I doing? I've never been without a job.
I've been a paperboy since I was 12 years old. Wow. I've never been without a job, ever. And here I am for a split second. I'm like, okay, I'm don't have a job. But you mean, but you kick it in, you, you kick in gear and you're like, I'm doing this. It's game on. and Sarah's she's we got this.
And she was steadfast like, we're gonna make this happen and this is what, and it was just like one thing after another. okay, like the next two days later, okay, we're looking for a place. Okay, this room is not ideal, but we're gonna make it happen. Place to open the school, you mean? Yeah. Okay. Two days later.
Okay. We're gonna start with just, yeah, just like starting with a,
Sara Windschitl: we just start with like our network of people and we're like, does anyone know a plays direct during the day to do some tutoring and yeah. We found a place that's only kind of used in the evenings for kids activities, so we were able to rent it during the day.
We started with half day classes and it started [00:30:00] out with mostly kids whose schools went on, cuz most kids were enrolled in schools at this point. It was August.
Nick Windschitl: So we had, we started with partial, like kids would come two days a week or three days a week. And I was like, so
Sara Windschitl: we have parents that wanted two days or like their schools went online for a month.
And then, and the parents were like, I don't wanna do online. Can my kid come to your school for Really, COVID
Life Leaps Podcast: became an opportunity for you in that way because you had a lot of kids in Thailand sitting as, as all over sitting at home and parents were probably jumping at the bit for someone to watch them in small groups in a safe, but like Meaningful way.
Sara Windschitl: Yeah.
And we would just say yes to everything. So I went back to school online, the kids, our kids and I started the school year online. And Nick is to go in person. And so everyone, we're all just like envious, right? and I'm teaching online kindergarten, which I've never taught before.
I
Life Leaps Podcast: was gonna say another leap for Sarah. Also, by the way, doing
Sara Windschitl: it. And I'm doing it online, which is [00:31:00] so weird. And Nick is like starting this thing from scratch. We found like a teaching assistant who worked, was amazing. And he's setting up this like full school, like this school room. And he had to set it up and take it down every day.
Cause it was a room that was used by other in
Nick Windschitl: the evening.
Sara Windschitl: It's a popup classroom hundred classroom. And I'm doing like, I'm trying to do all the like advertising and the. And the billing and like I'm doing all of the administrative things.
Life Leaps Podcast: You're CFO on top of teaching CFO your own class. Okay. And
Nick Windschitl: hr and I'm like, by the way, she's a heck of an hr. Oh
Sara Windschitl: gosh. These are not my
Life Leaps Podcast: sounds like might
Nick Windschitl: so
Sara Windschitl: good. So we're like running this thing
Nick Windschitl: I started off teaching
I was like, I'm just gonna do this for five and six year olds. And I was like, okay. I had all these parents saying, I have a four-year-old, can you, okay, I'll take four year olds. And then I have a six year, seven year old. I'm like, okay, I'll take seven. And I've got a [00:32:00] three year old in diapers. And I was like, no.
And then they line, and then this parent was like, so determined, like he said, please just let us, let her be in. I, she really needs. I was like, okay. And she, it was amazing. And I realized that in my brain, I'm like, I've had all this training and education for many years and masters and I believe in this Montessori philosophy and all this kind of Multiple grade levels and like kids interacting.
and I believed it, but I never tested it. But when I actually did it, I was like, oh, this is amazing. Like I really. Genuinely loved it and the kids loved it.
and I saw so much growth, not only like the academic growth, but like the social, emotional, all of that growth and wow. how they took on these leadership roles and it was just, it was amazing. And, it really told me like,
I'm so glad that I pushed myself
Sara Windschitl: Yeah. fast forward in the, it was basically been word of mouth advertising and this [00:33:00] year, his second year we moved to a bigger space. That's his own,
Nick Windschitl: we set, no, we're set up in tech down. No,
Sara Windschitl: we set up our own company in Thailand with the health of our Thai brand because you can't, as a partner, you can't own a business by yourself.
Wow. And so we had this amazing, friend that helped us at the company and we are like a legit company in Thailand now running
Life Leaps Podcast: school. Wow. Are you guys
Sara Windschitl: like what?
Nick Windschitl: Wait, the list,
Life Leaps Podcast: I will keep that in mind in the event that I, you never know where we'll land next. I might, you never know.
That's amazing. Number one, were you guys in the early days and maybe still, were you both exhilarated and exhausted what was it? A ping pong between terror exhaustion? Oh my gosh, what are we doing And, oh, this is amazing.
This is the right thing. Or was it all of just, this is great. Like what were you swimming around in emotionally as a couple, as a family? Not to mention you're reducing your salaries from two to one for that [00:34:00] moment, right? Like obviously you have to, it, it's a financial leap too when you were forced to make, but there were some adjustments.
You're working harder for less money at first, right? I imagine Yeah,
Nick Windschitl: in the beginning. Yeah. Cause you had to put money into the business and put the rent and all of the supplies and the building things you need. And
Sara Windschitl: a lot of the setup. looking back, while it was stressful, it was very easy to do a lot of that here in Thailand.
Like we kept thinking like, if we were gonna do this in America, it would be a lot more complicated. cost of living here is a, is much lower. So finding like an affordable place to rent,supplies that we needed, labor, like to find a teaching assistant also, like very affordable.
so yeah, those things were less stressful than the, the timeline. the timeline felt really rushed.
Like everything was like, start this now.
Nick Windschitl: Yeah, We are gonna start off with three kids.
by the second month I had 10 kids. I'm like, [00:35:00] by the end I was like, okay, I'm full. I'm like, we can't, I can't take anymore.
Wow. Because I really wanted to, my philosophy is I wanna have, getting to the heart before the mind has always been my philosophy, have to build a relationship, and so relationships are so crucial and so I build these relationships. small groups, small numbers, and it just, it became a family.
It became a community, like a community I've always wanted. and
Sara Windschitl: immediately,even though we were in a pandemic and this was a very stressful start, immediately I saw Nick's passion kind of reignite because now he's in complete control of what he's teaching, how he's teaching it, the pace of things, like field trip.
he's and this room that we rented was on the third floor of this strip mall next to this big like market. And, there's no playground, but there was a grocery store and he would take us to the, he's today we went to the grocery store, we brought clipboards and the kids like did SCA young kids to scavenger hunt where they're looking for things to start with B [00:36:00] and the older kids were finding how many things they could buy for a hundred.
But, and like this was stuff like you would have to get approved months in advance. might not even get approved at another school. And he just got to do this, do
Nick Windschitl: authentic learning, like real life learning at every kid's level. And it
Sara Windschitl: was, and he would come home and tell us what he did that day.
And our kids who have been doing online learning were just like, I wanna go to daddy's school. and that's when it felt like, this is something worth investing in long term.
And,people love this. the parents want this, the kids love this. this is a sustainable and really needed type of education that. you have to push really hard for in, in the United States
educators need to be creative and passionate. And if you're not creative and passionate, you're just turning the page.
Nick Windschitl: And that's not, that's robotic and that's not meeting kids' needs. And so I just, I know that when I go, whenever we decide to leave and come back, I wanna make a difference. I wanna make a change. I want to help start something [00:37:00] different, start something new. And part of that's at teacher education.
but it's like just the philosophy that it's important,
Life Leaps Podcast: Nick, you found what you were looking for. It just took an extra step. That you didn't expect. It wasn't just coming to Thailand, push a a leap. A leap. Hey, that's fitting right. A leap. That word should have come first.
it is, it took an extra leap for you once you guys arrived to this next thing, but you also have answered another question that was noodling in the back of my mind, which was, sounds like you're still not done. Sounds like you guys are still thinking, which is great. Nobody ever really is right.
we never reached that magical end place. but it sounds like You guys are still thinking about when I go home now I wanna take this, I wanna take what I've learned.
I wanna take what I've grown. Do it again elsewhere. Advocate for something new. Is that what's next? Where are you? [00:38:00] Where's your head?
Nick Windschitl: I just, I do, I feel this experience has allowed me to be more free, allowed us to be more free. but yeah, I think in the back of my mind particularly, I was like, I, it's always been something bigger, the philosophy to make a difference in a bigger way of how kids should learn and how we can do this and still achieve whatever administrations or educational system wants of us.
It's just, yeah, I feel like there is more. Yeah. Okay.
Sara Windschitl: I think the biggest thing that's changed for us is that, back home we felt like moving abroad was the biggest thing we could do. And then our thinking was like, we'll get refreshed and renewed and re reinvigorated and we'll come back and we'll do our same thing, but with this renewed energy.
And I think now we know we can do hard things. Like we moved our young family to a foreign country. We've weathered a pandemic abroad, we've [00:39:00] experienced the layoff, we've created opportunity out of that job loss, we've opened the school. Like these are things we never planned on doing, minus the moving our family to a foreign country.
and so it, it doesn't feel like, we've always said we're going, we'll go back home at some point. but there was this, I have this feeling of dread, I'm gonna, we're gonna go back to our same jobs. Do we, have we like changed enough? Are we steadfast enough in our result to, do our same jobs different than we really will or will we fallen back into the same kind of routines and patterns and habits and, the culture of just the inertia of like how things are there.
And I, I now see like just more, we now see more possibility. Like we, we don't have to go back to those same roles. we can do things that are not as comfortable. And
Nick Windschitl: I think the,
The taste of doing things that are hard was important. I would've never even considered doing something different because there's that ease of knowing you [00:40:00] have your salary, like you don't have to worry about a lot of things.
Yeah. But there, I feel like we've done the hard stuff now and we know, we just have, we have a mindset. I have a mindset. I can visualize what I want and I already know I'm gonna do it. Cause I've already done it on the most ridiculous conditions. And and I believe in it.
I see, I can visualize what it looks like, how I'm gonna do it, and I believe what we've done already together. So yeah. I'm just super excited.
Life Leaps Podcast: I love you guys. I don't know,
I love what Sarah said, we can do hard things. And it's, and then mm-hmm. Nick, you followed up you guys are so complimentary, probably not the first time you've heard that. Nick, you followed up, I guess as that, you know, that Nick, you've followed up with and not only can we do hard things, but it was really important that we did these hard things, like mm-hmm.
That's not always a mindset, and again, you said mindset that everybody has. And I think it's a really important one,[00:41:00] because hard things are gonna come our way, no matter what, things out of our control are gonna come our way no matter what. And I think that, I am far from the first person to say that embracing the struggle and growing with that is.
Kind of the only way really. And you guys are just such an amazing, beautiful, poignant example of that. And yeah, I'm just so thankful that you have shared your story and I'm so excited for what's next. Whether it's, many more moons in Thailand growing this school, you've started and working your way through the wait list of children who can't wait and parents who can't wait to go there.
or picking up and taking what you've learned or the model you've started and doing it somewhere else, which it sounds like maybe one day you might, and, but knowing you, it sounds like I should just stay tuned because you possibilities existed that you didn't know ex, you didn't even know these things existed for you and you're doing them.
we'll see.
Nick Windschitl: Yeah, I think we're just grateful. We're grateful.[00:42:00]
but I hope you understand how much, yes, I have this idea and we, but this has been a hundred percent maybe like 90 and 10%. I have this vision. You're pointing at Sarah.
She was able to do it. Yeah. Yes. I have a vision in the school, but she was able to do all the stuff that I couldn't do. I know you have to have the right person to do it with too. Cause
Life Leaps Podcast: have, you don't have
Sara Windschitl: CEO and
Life Leaps Podcast: your COO.
Nick Windschitl: and hr. you gotta have hr.
Sara Windschitl: I do pay his salary.
Nick Windschitl: He does, she pays me my salary.
Life Leaps Podcast: I love it. Oh he'd like a raise after this cuz he's done some really good promo for this. Duh.
Nick Windschitl: she did gimme a, a fun shirt and we on vacation. I appreciate that. And she allowed me to drink some good beer,
Life Leaps Podcast: so I'm fine. Gotta start somewhere. my, my final question is always what advice you have for others who are leaping either in the way you did or a totally different way, but we're all seeking the same startup juice and hope and guidance
Sara Windschitl: Yeah.
I love that you asked this question of your guests and I think they [00:43:00] all give such wonderful advice. and we kinda talked about this. the moving abroad part, the hardest thing,
there's all the things that just keep you tied to where you are. for example, like retirement, like money, when we moved to Thailand, we took like a 70% pay cut, but we live very comfortably in Thailand, you know?
Mm-hmm. A lot of people say when I retire I'm gonna travel. There's something to be said about doing it when you're a little younger, when you can do it with your kids.
and if you reframe things that instead of just. Working the grind until I'm finally done and then I can enjoy life. If you reframe it like, I'm using some of that like retirement money now. instead of saving as much as I would have, we're going to spend that now and I think that's a really scary leap.
I think the culture, especially in America with, how important it is to just work really hard, your working years until you reach this golden age [00:44:00] of where you can enjoy your life. I think it's hard to break away from, but I think that would be one of our biggest piece of advice is to. do some of those things that you're, that you envision that you're working for in the future.
do some of those things now, especially with, if you have kids. I think this has been such a wonderful time with our kids to, to have this experience together and to show them a different, not just like this part of the world and different, to live in a different country and experience different culture, but also to see these challenges that we've been through together and, for them to see that we can do hard things as a family.
Nick Windschitl: if I was gonna say like advice, I would definitely say follow your dream, that cliche thing, but, Do it before you're pushed.
I think I, I've had this dream that I was gonna do this, and I just sat on it and sat on it and I just kept pushing it away. And I, and of course,
Sara Windschitl: I don't, we sat on it, but it just, it's never gonna feel like the right time. I think it's never,
Nick Windschitl: you're right, it's never the right time.
Yeah. so just go for [00:45:00] it. and then again, if you are pushed, you see it as no opportunity, a door being opened. I think that's the advice I would go with.
Life Leaps Podcast: You still made the choice. You still I hear, I often have this conversation myself and sometimes others about there's so much privilege in the idea of talking about a leaf because it implies a choice.
And while I acknowledge that, I pushed back a little bit against that also in my head and the imaginary dialogue in my head about that, which is even when things out of your control happen, which in so many of these interviews they have You all included, there's still a choice. There's always a choice. No matter how big or wide that margin for choice is. It depends on the circumstance and that depends on your privilege
. I agree. But it also depends on a mindset and You made choice. You have to tell the mindset. You gotta have the mindset, and you gotta own the choice.
And y'all did that.[00:46:00] More on Sarah, Nick nest International School in Chang, mai, Thailand. In the show notes for this episode.
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Till next time.