D.I.I.verse Podcast: Will it make the boat go faster?

Navigating Workplace Inclusivity: Empowering Stories from Louise Connop and the Thomas Pocklington Trust

• Adam • Season 2

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This episode features a powerful conversation with Louise Connop from the Thomas Pocklington Trust, who discusses her journey with sight loss and the urgent need for greater inclusivity in the workplace. Louise shares insights into the challenges faced by blind and partially sighted individuals, the role of assistive technology, and the impact of societal misconceptions on employment opportunities.

• Discussion on the importance of inclusion in the workplace 
• Louise's personal journey with sight loss and advocacy 
• Exploration of daily barriers faced by the blind and partially sighted 
• Employment challenges and statistics concerning disability 
• Recommendations for organisations to create accessible hiring practices 
• The role of assistive technology in enhancing employment prospects 
• Examination of the costs of being disabled and its economic implications 
• Louise's hopes for a more inclusive future and the importance of allyship

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Speaker 1:

We are recording this podcast at the home of Wolverhampton University's Multimedia Journalism degree in the Alan Turing building on City Campus. The radio studio we are sitting in is kitted out to the same standards as places like BBC Radio 4 and 5 Live. It was installed alongside two studios as part of the new Wolverhampton Screen School. If you want to pop in for a guided tour to discuss booking the studios or to chat about the diverser podcast channel here at the university of wolverham.

Speaker 2:

Now apologies for my terrible, terrible sounding sort of like voice. Today it is winter, almost winter, and that means that everybody's got coughs and colds, and that includes me. So I'm going to try and keep the coughing to a minimum and not hope that doesn't diminish the experience. I'm talking too much again. But I'm very delighted today to have with me in the studio Louise Connop from the Thomas Pocklington Trust. Louise is the Senior Engagement Manager for Central England at TPT. I always find that bit really difficult. It sounds like TCP, which is what I could do with right now. I could do with right now.

Speaker 2:

But anyway, before we get into this conversation, we're going to talk about Thomas Pocklington Trust a little bit later and those of you who take a lot of interest in the events we do here at the university will know that we did a webinar with Thomas Pocklington Trust last year in which we talked about the work they do, particularly in education, to help and support students who are going through HE, and we'll put a link to that episode in the description for this podcast so you can watch it later or even before.

Speaker 2:

But like I say, before we get into the subject of Louise's work with Thomas Buckner and Trust I just want to draw attention to. When we first met and we started, you know, talking about how we're gonna do last year's talk, and you said something to me about Thomas Spockman's Trust. That sort of like literally startled me. I found it really astonishing, but I know really good way, which is you said that 51% of employees at thomas brockman's trust are either blind or partially sighted and I thought, well, for anyone listening, um, that's exactly what inclusion looks like in the workplace absolutely, and since our last discussion about the stats, uh, julian, we're actually up to two-thirds of our workforce that now have lived experience of being blind or partially sighted ourselves.

Speaker 2:

So there really aren't any excuses for any organisation that doesn't want to reach out and, sort of like, literally create an environment that's more inclusive for people with disabilities.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

And of those 70 percent, percent is it now? Um, it's 60 something percent two-thirds but, if you don't mind me saying so, that you are one of those people I am I am indeed so is it okay if I ask you to talk a little bit about your own sort of um? I mean, could you show us a little bit about your own personal journey with um, coming to terms with sight loss?

Speaker 3:

yeah, so I was born with my sight loss um. Many people that experience sight loss acquire sight loss throughout their lifetime, but I I didn't. I'm um. I was born, registered um quite soon after birth as being partially sighted, which is today's terminology for sight impaired, and then at the age of seven, I was re-registered as blind, which is now known as severely sight impaired. So I've only ever known one way. I've learned one way. I haven't had to readjust after losing my vision. So it's a very different kind of experience to someone who might acquire their sight loss later on in life.

Speaker 3:

I would say I don't think I came to terms with my sight loss until I started working in the sector about eight years ago. I very much lived in a sighted world. I went to mainstream education. I tried to fit in, shall we say, with friends and fellow students and my peers, not wanting to stand out, but unfortunately you do. You do stand out and throughout my educational journey and my work history until I joined the sight loss sector when I was 30, I'd always been the odd one out. It had always been me as the blind person, surrounded by sighted people who just didn't get it. They didn't understand, they didn't know what it was like.

Speaker 2:

There's constant battles and barriers that I'd had to overcome, and then I kind of fell into the industry that I'm in now, by accident, to be honest, julian so you talked a little bit there about there's barriers and challenges you faced in, not not in sort of like literally mostly down to people's unwillingness or or inability to understand, uh, you as a as a as a blind person, yeah, um, so, with the benefit of hindsight we all wish we had more hindsight in our lives um, what do you wish you'd known or understood? You know now that you could go back and sort of like reassure you yourself if, oh, what a what a question, what a question.

Speaker 3:

I think if I could turn the clock back, I would love to give my younger self more confidence to know what is and isn't okay and what is and isn't acceptable. When you're young and you come out of education and you start your career and you're you know you go into your first job, everything's new, everything's fresh. You don't really know what the expectations should be, just as a person, let alone as a person with a disability. So I wish that I would have had more confidence to speak up and say when things weren't right and when I was struggling and when people didn't understand. But at the same time, I am the person that I am today because of the life experiences that I've been through and I've overcome. I just hope, by doing the work that we do collectively, that the younger loos of today don't have to go through all of that hard, difficult challenges and barriers and discrimination before they are confident in the way that I am now so, for all those younger loos out there, good luck.

Speaker 2:

Well, hopefully luck doesn't come into it, um, but yeah, we, we know it's, we know. We can't deny that there were many, many challenges and barriers that people face yeah so what? What advice could you give to them? Uh in there, to enable them and help them on their journey?

Speaker 3:

be comfortable with the conditions or the long-term health conditions or the disabilities or whatever it is that you live with. Be comfortable and confident with owning that. The only person, or the best person not the only person, but the best person to know where your strengths lie is you like. You know what you can and can't do and you know what doesn't doesn't help. I would say being open to speak to other people that are in your position as well.

Speaker 3:

I didn't see or meet a single person with sight loss until I was 30, not one. I didn't know anyone. I didn't know of any support groups. I didn't know of anywhere to turn to. I didn't know that. You know there were things available to help. I wasn't aware that. You know, for example, you could do um vi sports. You know. There was just so much that I wish I would have known, as a younger person, to be able to lean into and lean on to people that have already walked that walk and talked that talk and know how to overcome the issues or the challenges or the barriers that you might be facing. So I would say it can be difficult, it can be challenging to speak up and know what your rights are, but more often than not. If you don't, nobody else will know. So be open to engaging with other people that have disabilities. Whether that's your disability or something else, we are born problem solvers, as you know, julian um, and don't struggle. Don't struggle on your own, because there are so many people out there to support you.

Speaker 2:

So, obviously, people with disabilities, we experience, you know, everyday ableism on a well, on an everyday basis.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and you talked about some of the barriers and challenges, but I don't feel that many people really understand what they are Now. We were talking about LinkedIn earlier, which is one of my barriers and challenges, but I don't feel that many people really understand what they are now. We were talking about linkedin earlier, which is one of my barriers and challenges, because I just don't understand how to use it and hopefully one day, if anybody's listening, please help me with that. But, um, one thing I do recall is that you put an absolutely brilliant post on linkedin a few months ago and it was one of those where I felt myself saying yes, punching the air, but not with delight, because that would be a strange thing to be happy about, but it was just like an extraordinary account, like one day, of how many things can go wrong in one day and all the barriers that one person can face that many people just have absolutely no idea about whatsoever. Could you talk a little bit about that?

Speaker 3:

yeah, so thanks, thanks first and foremost for for reading and engaging with that post, and I'm I think it's good to note that I'm not a negative nancy, julian, it's not about this is how difficult life is, and look at all the barriers that we have to face, but sometimes that day was just one of those days where, barrier after barrier after barrier after barrier, and I just was like this cannot keep happening. Like I would say I'm quite a confident person, um, and I do know my rights now, and it's taken a hell of a long time for me to get to that point. But even those people who are confident, we we have days where we can't take anymore, like enough is enough and it can be anything like I think that the post that you're referring to. There was a couple of things that day where I didn't receive, um, like I received a letter for a hospital appointment and it wasn't in an accessible format and then I have to wait for my husband or my children to read it, and then you go out and there's cars parked on the pavement and you've got to deal with people being abusive towards you because you're asking them to move so that you can safely get past to take your children to school, and it was just one thing after another after another that people don't even think they don't realise happen, let alone realising that they're barriers.

Speaker 3:

But there's so many barriers to society, but there are more barriers to like other areas. So it's not just getting out and about, but accessing healthcare, getting getting a job, getting to the job if you've got a job, going out and socializing with your friends, like and it's not about highlighting the barriers, like we work, and I am so passionate about ensuring that we highlight the barriers to give a solution to that barrier. So there was no need for the car to be parked on the pavement, like that just didn't have to happen. It wasn't because something's in the way. It's just that it becomes sometimes a societal norm that it's just accepted because there were no consequences.

Speaker 3:

The letter from the hospital, for example, like yes, there are barriers to that not being sent out in an accessible format, but it doesn't need to happen. Still, like we're in 2024, almost 2025. Um, there should be and there can be ways that the vast majority of our barriers can be taken away. And I think it goes back to the medical versus the social model of disability, like if these things weren't putting on our way to cause the barriers, then actually our disability wouldn't be as difficult as it might be now brilliantly said and um a brilliant account, though, of the kind of um, well, the barriers and challenges that we always face as people with disabilities.

Speaker 2:

But you've also touched on there, the the different, a little bit about the different models of disability, and we've took on listeners will know that we talk about this endlessly, about the difference between the social model and the medical model and how having an impairment doesn't necessarily equal disability.

Speaker 2:

It's when you, when you, when you combine an impairment with a poorly designed environment or equally, sort of like an unsupportive like, sort of like response from from people and um, I'm very, very passionate about like, how we sort of like literally move the dial forwards and how we get away from deficit models of disability, which and I would even include the social model in this, because, even even though it's obviously clearly better than the um, than the medical model, I mean mean what wouldn't be for a start, it still has that deficit focus, it's still very much based on what people can't do. And do you think we need to sort of like move a little bit beyond that and actually move more towards what people with disabilities can do and and actually even what, what only people with disabilities can do, because we we learn so much from overcoming the things that come in front of us. We, we are some of the most creative people you'll ever meet, with, some of the most imaginative, with the most resourceful, with the most innovative people.

Speaker 3:

Because how to constantly overcome things. Yeah, absolutely. I I think like, look there's, there's flaws in all kind of models of anything. Can you know, the social model of disability is by no means perfect absolutely not and I think the issue is that if people were more empathetic, more understanding, more willing to listen, understand and learn, a lot of the work I do basically my job would be become redundant. You know, in an ideal, perfect world, I wouldn't need to be here doing the work that I'm doing.

Speaker 3:

However, there are many, many, many things that are difficult to change because of the world that we live in and the infrastructure that we have as a country, but there are also many things that could change overnight and when we're going out and working with organizations time and time and time again, 95% of problems can be resolved by having clear, accurate, accessible and inclusive communication.

Speaker 3:

A lot of the stuff doesn't need to be physically changed. Yes, there are elements and I'm not saying that there aren't. There absolutely are things that physically need to change, but a lot of time, especially for people who are blind and partially sighted. It's because people don't communicate or they don't communicate in an accessible way, and that should be really easy to change and it's quite deflating at times that it isn't like it really should be. But the more we talk about it and the more we do this kind of work and the more conversations that we have with people that are in a position to change policy or to change business or to change whatever it might be that maybe isn't working so well at the minute, the easier it is then to have that positive impact.

Speaker 2:

But if people were just more empathetic and understanding, I think that would go a hell of a long way as well obviously, we're recording this podcast during disability history month and this year's theme, as we all know, is disability, livelihood and employment, so this is a perfect time to actually reflect on the um employment landscape of people with disabilities which is, despite there being a little bit of progress over the years in terms of um just reducing the gap between people with disabilities and employment and people without disabilities, it's still quite stubborn. It's around about, it's around about 30 percent gap. I believe. It's around about 30% gap, I believe. So the latest figures I have are from the House of Commons library, of all places. I'm assuming they have accurate information there. It said that 54.2% of people with disabilities are currently employed, compared with 82% people, who don't have an astonishing significant gap here.

Speaker 2:

Um, but thinking about your own life, your own experiences and also, obviously, an organization we will talk about a little bit later, I keep on teasing people with that um, what do you think are the the challenge? What do you think are the specific challenges, uh, that people with sight loss have when it comes to seeking employment?

Speaker 3:

um, I think before I, before I go into that, julian I think that, like the disability employment gap is, it's quite saddening really, like there hasn't been much in terms of blind and partially sighted people of any movement in the last generation. Like it's floated around the 25, 26, um, 27 percent of blind or partially sighted people who are registered and working age that are in employment, and that's sad. That's really really sad. Like we have so much to offer, so many skills, some of which you've highlighted already. Um, but some of the barriers and there are many I think first and foremost is just being able to apply, knowing that jobs are available, like how are they advertised? Where are they advertised? Are they advertised in an accessible way? Like if they're on online or on social media, like linkedin is used quite we've mentioned once already and is used quite often. Quite often they're not in it, done in an accessible format, so people just don't know that they're there. But if they do, quite often the application process is extremely challenging. Gone are the days where you just you know you've got a CV and you can provide a CV to an employer. Like that is absolutely not happening. You've got to go through multiple forms and online assessments and fill in boxes in certain ways. And most people who are blind or partially sighted that are out of work don't have access to screen readers because it's a it's really expensive piece of kit. And technology, yes, technology is amazing. It's come, you know, it's brought on so many sectors in so many ways for people within our community. But it can also be a barrier. If people don't have access to it, how are they accessing all of this kind of stuff to apply for jobs? And let's just say we've got past that barrier as well and people have seen the advertisements. They have been able to go through a relatively accessible form to fill in.

Speaker 3:

And then you have societal misconceptions around what blind and partially sighted people can and can't do and unfortunately, a lot of the time, they're quite negative in that, oh, she's blind, she can't do that, she people can and can't do. And unfortunately, a lot of the time, they're quite negative in that, oh, she's blind, she can't do that, she's blind, she can't do that, she won't be able to use a computer, she's not going to be able to do X, y and Z, when actually it's quite the opposite. Like, as we already discussed, we're born problem solvers. We're extremely resilient, we're creative, we ways of making things work. But employers will then think quite often oh, it's too expensive. It's too expensive because they're going to need all this kit and it's going to cost me a lot of money.

Speaker 3:

And you know, people aren't aware. Many, many employers aren't aware of the access to work scheme. I'm not saying it's perfect by any stretch of the imagination and it is flawed. But also, if people just don't know exists, then the onus again is continually put back onto the job seeker or the blind and partially sighted person to be able to know all of this and and to provide that information at the same time as trying to get into employment. I think people just don't realise the skills that we have. Many, many blind and partially sighted people can bring to an organisation to make it more diverse, to make it more creative, to, you know, get the ball rolling in a different way maybe, so accessing roles.

Speaker 3:

It may then be having to go to an interview. How do people get from their home to the interview? Transport is not accessible in many parts of our society. We don't have many audible buses, for example, in the region that we live in. Um, if you've got a guide dog, you quite often will get refusals from taxes. So you know, just getting to spaces and places to have interviews, to be aware, to network and engage can also be extremely challenging. But I don't want to finish that point on a negative stance, because all of those things can you, can overcome them I was going to ask you that.

Speaker 2:

That was the next question. You actually you. You somehow got into my head, okay, so so what can organizations do then to to ensure that their hiring practices are are more inclusive and accessible for people with disabilities?

Speaker 3:

engage with people with disabilities. If you are putting out a job application, for example, have you double-checked that it's accessible? Have you been in consultation and engagement with for my purpose blind and partially sighted people, but disabled people as a whole, to know that actually you are capturing the whole pool of potential employees, not just some of them? The whole pool of potential employees, not just some of them. Be aware and uphold reasonable adjustments.

Speaker 3:

If someone says that they need you know x, y or z, or they need it to be at a certain time, or is it available to be done online or can they have the questions in advance, you know, whatever that request from that potential applicant would be to to be mindful, take a step back and understand that it's it's for the benefit of both the organization and the potential employee to make reasonable adjustments. Be aware, do some research, find out about access to work. Like they're there to help the employers as much as they are to help the employees. Like there is so much stuff that is already out there and already exists to overcome the barriers that we face to getting into employment. But people a just need to be made more aware of them and b need to be open to deliver on them thinking about your own working life.

Speaker 2:

Um, and basically you touched a little bit there on reasonable adjustments. Is there any particular reasonable adjustments that you would, reasonable adjustment that you wish you'd had or that you knew about or you knew that you could access, that maybe would have made your life a lot easier?

Speaker 3:

um, yes, um, so joining us in the studio today we have my support worker, andy. That's not mic'd up so you won't hear it from him, um, but I've only had a support worker, uh, for the last couple of years and I didn't even know, it was a thing to be honest, before then. Even when I found out about access to work, um, when I joined the sector, you know, it was very much penned as things like what can we give to you to make your life easier? So magnification software, for example. I didn't have access to ZoomText, the software program that I use for the first couple of jobs that I had, because I didn't know it existed. I hadn't lived in that world so I didn't know that it was a thing. I struggled and I really struggled.

Speaker 3:

But having the ability to have someone my job means that I'm out and about all over the place all of the time, and trying to get public transport to do that would just be impossible.

Speaker 3:

Like, as I said, said before, it's not inclusive, it's not accessible, like I can't, I can't access it, but it would also take a hell of a lot of time. Um, having a support worker be able to look out for my needs, not just by driving me somewhere, but being able to show me where the restrooms are, the bathrooms, the toilets, like how to get a drink, being able to read something visual that isn't accessible, like it, has made a huge difference to the output that I'm able to give at work, because if I didn't have access to a support worker, I wouldn't be able to do even half, maybe probably not even a quarter, of the things that I'm able to do now. But that doesn't mean that a support worker is suitable for everybody. Um, but just knowing what I know now I know would have helped me a hell of a lot in some of the other roles that I've had in the past and struggled in you mentioned, or just ever so slightly earlier on, about the role of assisted technology.

Speaker 2:

So um, and obviously technology is developing all the time hugely, yeah, so what particularly, uh, what, what particular assistive technology is really, really useful for blind and partially sighted people?

Speaker 3:

so there's, there's lots of different um, and by no means am I a tech guru, uh, julian. Quite the opposite, actually. Any of my colleagues that might be listening to this are probably like she's the worst person to talk to you about tech um. But a lot of blind and partially sighted people may need access to either magnification software so that we can so that's what I use, and I zoom in because I have enough useful vision to be able to still see things that are really enlarged on my screen. But if not that, then they might use a program um called called jaws or something similar. That is a screen reader so it will read out whatever print is on the screen. So they have equal access to whatever you visually see they can listen to. So that that's like the, the basic, I would say, software.

Speaker 3:

But then there are so many different apps that are available in our pockets, on our smartphones, that can help day to day with anything from identifying what clothes you're wearing.

Speaker 3:

If you don't have enough vision to be able to see colors or the like um, you can press a button and instantly speak to someone anywhere in the world that speaks your language, at any time, day or night I'm trying not to name any of these apps purely because there are lots and lots of them that are available out there, um, but you can get apps that will read timetables for you. You could get apps that can navigate you. Um, there's, there's so much available that sometimes isn't even marketed to blind and priceless sighted people either. Um, there are a certain brand of sunglasses, um, that have recently come out, um, that teamed up with meta, that were originally, I think, designed for sports enthusiasts and people to like snowboarding and skiing, to get images and videography, but they've been hugely welcomed by people within our community because it gives you the option of having a little bit of an on-the-go Alexa. Look, I've tried not to name anything. I've ended up naming one anyway.

Speaker 3:

I think everybody knows Alexa try not to name anything and I've ended up naming one anyway. I think everybody knows alexa um, but there are some things that sometimes accidentally become assistive technology, even though it wasn't meant to be um. So there are some amazing pieces of kit that can help with so many different things, like talking about alexa now that we have like she turns all the lights on and off in my house. I can set them to certain levels depending on what my eyes, how my eyes are feeling that day. I can open the door, I can set my heating, so I don't need to be able to visually see many things. I can audibly ask for them. So even though sometimes things aren't ask for them, so even though sometimes things aren't created to be assistive tech, they they also can be um. But when they are designed purely for blind and partially sighted people, you do often have quite a high price tag that comes alongside with that, which is why it can be difficult for people who are unemployed or out of employment to access them on that subject.

Speaker 2:

Do you think we talk enough about this, about the difficult decisions that people with disabilities often have to make? No I mean going back to the pandemic, pandemic, pandemic. Why can't I say that I said it right? Eventually, and even more recently with the cost of living crisis, I think it astonished a lot of people, particularly and particularly.

Speaker 2:

For instance, people actually have to have uh ventilation systems on in order to actually survive yeah it's like that so many people are just completely unaware of the additional costs of actually being a disabled person or person with a disability. Correct myself there it.

Speaker 3:

It's insane and, no, I don't think it's talked about often enough and I think the latest statistics it's like the first time that it's gone over a thousand pound per month that disabled people have to pay extra just to live.

Speaker 3:

That that's like more than £12,000 a year.

Speaker 3:

And then when we're talking statistically so, blind and partially sighted people only 27% of them of working age are employed.

Speaker 3:

And I think, looking at the wider disability statistics, like we're twice as likely than any other disabilities to not be employed. And not only is that sad and a little bit depressing, but I think look at all that wasted talent like that people are missing out on that people could be offering that you know that they can bring to the table and not only would that help businesses and organizations but it would also help the individuals close that gap of the extra costs that are incurred just by being disabled, which, may I add, no one chooses to be. It's not we don't. We don't wake up or be born and decide to be part of that club. And I think as well people often forget non-disabled people that at any point in time could become part of our group, like temporarily or permanently. People don't understand often that you're only two seconds, five minutes, whatever it is. Away from being disabled yourself and then experiencing all of those additional costs and also it vastly increases with age.

Speaker 2:

So I mean figures I've seen suggest that I think it's about five percent of the population between nought and uh. Working age, which is 16, is that is fight, only 5% to have a disability. Since you get to working age, it rises that 16 to 65, rises to 22% and above 65, it's 41% yeah, and then when you get to 80, it's even higher than that.

Speaker 2:

So basically it's everybody alive has got a more than 50 chance of becoming to say, you know having a disability at some point in their lives yeah so, you know, it's just a matter of when it happens rather than if it happens for the majority of us, because this is part of this conversation about assistive tech in a way, isn't it? Because, on the one hand, we presented a vision of the future which is look, what we have to look forward to. It's shiny, enabling technology that will suddenly sort of transform our lives, enabling us to have, sort of might be, a greater presence in the world. And yet at the other side the other split side, that is, is how on earth do you afford it? How on earth do you afford it if you don't actually have a job? Yeah, so how do you afford the technology that enables you to get a job when you don't have a job?

Speaker 2:

It's that conless, endless, sort of like catch 22 situation. Yeah, um, but thinking about the role that technology has played in your own life, because our last episode I always like people to listen to previous episodes we talked an awful lot about the future and how the role that assistive technology was going to play in the world of 2063. What would the world of 2063 look like and how, how might it totally transform people's lives? Because the technology that's available to them that transforms their lives? Is there any form of technology that you wish existed that currently doesn't?

Speaker 3:

oh, I mean, I'd love to be able to have a driverless car, and they're on their way. I'm not sure I'll ever get one or if they'll be okay to use without an actual driving license in my lifetime, but I I think I alluded to before, one of the biggest barriers that we have, not just to accessing employment but accessing the world that we live in in general is is transport and getting around. Um, there are lots of apps to help navigate and way find and all of that kind of stuff. But sometimes, you know, this time of year, you know it's like julian, you're not feeling very well, it's dark, it's cold, it's wet, there's snow on the ground, whatever it is.

Speaker 3:

Oh how I would love to just be able to jump in the car instead of having to figure out is there somebody available to help support me, or have I got enough money left over before payday to pay for a taxi, instead of having to, you know, go and get the bus with someone because there's nobody available. So, yeah, I suppose I'd love to have a car that I could drive independently. Um, I don't know, I don't know about any other kind of technology. As I said earlier, I'm probably not the best person to to have the tech talk with, because if my laptop doesn't work and I don't, I turn it off and I turn it back on and it still doesn't work. I'm, I'm done there, julian. I don't know where else to turn. Um, but yeah, I'm sure there's. There's lots of stuff being worked on as we speak that we wish we would have had forever once we know about it, but until we do, we don't know what we don't have.

Speaker 2:

And, of course, as you said earlier, there's many things that have become assistive tech, that were never developed as assistive tech.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, accidentally accessible, we like to call them.

Speaker 2:

I've teased everybody all the way through this conversation about your um, the role you do at thomas bucklington trust. So we have reached that point in the conversation. When we get to talk about that um, so yeah, so what um? Can we just begin by saying so, saying can you just talk a little bit about your role as a senior engagement officer at the central england, isn't it? Yes?

Speaker 3:

yes, so I'm the senior engagement manager for central england at tpt, or thomas pocklington trust, as you said, and I would say it's one of the first times in my not even my career, julian, but my my life in general that I've just felt like I fit, like we are a national sight loss charity that supports blind and partially sighted people to live the life that they choose to lead. Now that doesn't mean that they have to be the next Einstein or the next Paralympian or you know. It's whatever they choose that they want to do, and we do that in a number of ways. We have what we would like to refer to as our three E's, so the employment team, the education team and the engagement team. So my role sits within the engagement team and tpt funds what we call sight loss councils up and down the country. So we've got 24 sight loss councils and they're made up of blind and partially sighted people who all come together that live within a particular community. So birmingham and the black country is the one local to here to work with organizations, businesses and service providers to improve access, knowledge, raise awareness, whatever it might be. Um, which is brilliant and wonderful, and I absolutely love working with the volunteers, who all have lived experience as well. We learn, we share, we support each other.

Speaker 3:

But then, aside from the brilliant wonderful work that we do, uh, education and employment teams also do fantastic work. So the education team works with students who are 11 plus and in education or training to make sure that they have what they need, they are understand of what they can and can't get or do, and that the institutions that they are with so the schools, the colleges, the universities, the training providers, etc. Are also aware and understand how they can support those students. There's also peer support groups so they can speak to other blind and partially sighted students or parents of students, and they do some fantastic work. So I would encourage you to go and have a look on TPT's website.

Speaker 3:

And then the third E that we talk about is our employment team, and they do some wonderful work across many, many sectors with blind and partially sighted people and their employers, to make sure people are fully supported cv writing, interview skills, how to apply what, what works and what doesn't, what reasonable adjustments can be put in place, what you can request. But then we've also, as part of that, got our brilliant internship team, um, so we do funded supported internships for blind and partially sighted people to get out into the work, learn new skills, get into employment, get back into employment, stay in employment, whatever it might be. In so many different sectors the, the individuals themselves are supported, but so are the organizations. So so many people are learning and developing through the internship program and I should probably have checked these stats before I come in today, but I think the latest figures that we have is around 80 to 85% of our supported interns are then taken on and fulfilling and getting full-time paid employment as a result of the internships, which is wonderful, a road in an in way of helping to increase those really poor statistics of blind and partially sighted people who are in work at the minute, and that can mean so many different sectors.

Speaker 3:

So there's a hell of a lot that goes on at tpt. We could be here all week and all month talking about all the fabulous work that all of my colleagues do across lots of different spaces of my colleagues do across lots of different um spaces, but if anybody wants any further information, you can go to the sight loss council's website, um, or the thomas pocklington trust websites. We're on linkedin on all the usual social channels, um, but it's so lovely to see and watch people flourish and grow, be that volunteers that work in the sight loss council teams or people that are wanting help and support. Um, you know, we've worked with a couple of the students here at the university as you know, julian, and we've discussed in the past um but also people on the internship program or people who were just asking for a little bit of extra help and support to stay in the roles that they're in already.

Speaker 2:

Like it's really nice to see and it's such a fulfilling and rewarding job I know you said you could talk about all the work that thomas pocklinton trust are doing forever in a day. Yeah, but is there anything you're currently working on? At the moment you're particularly, you know, excited about?

Speaker 3:

um, yes, uh.

Speaker 3:

So recently we have been working with uh I say we as a collective um all of my sight loss council colleagues, volunteers, members and behind the scenes team in in our comms team as well on developing a e-learning package with cpt, so the confederation for passenger transport, to ensure that everybody that works in that space has access to this e-learning package.

Speaker 3:

To share the good, the bad, the ugly, I suppose, um, but how you can help to enable blind and partially sighted passengers to feel comfortable and confident in traveling independently by making some small changes. Um, and it's been such a team effort um that, like volunteers, like we've got 200 sight loss council members have all had the opportunity and inputted through their sight loss council meetings. We've worked sector-wide, we've like worked within the, the transport space, and you know we've been nominated for multiple awards in this wonderful award season that we're in at the moment and it's been a, it's been a really big piece of work that we're so incredibly proud of. Um and working to enhance services that are available no matter where you live in the country, to, hopefully, in the not too distant future, ensure that it is the same no matter where you live in the country to, hopefully in the not-too-distant future, ensure that it is the same no matter what your postcode is, because we have national resources like this that have been a real joint team effort. It is really quite inspiring.

Speaker 2:

So we will put details in the description for this of uh to connect with the council and thomas pocklinton trust as well, so anyone who's interested can follow this up. Thank, you um, but how very quickly? How could people who are interested get involved, uh, and support the work that you're doing?

Speaker 3:

so I suppose it depends how they want to get involved and how they want to support the work if they're blind or partially sighted people themselves and they want either, you know, support in education, employment, accessing the built environment, whatever that might be. As I said, you can get in contact with us through our website, so wwwsightlosscouncilcouk or wwwpocklingtonorguk. I'm also happy to leave my personal contact details for anyone that is in the West Midlands that wants to connect. You can email me at louiseconnop, which is C-O-N-N-O-P at pocklingtonorguk, and I'm happy to, if I need to, signpost you to any of our colleagues in the other departments.

Speaker 3:

But there's also ways that you can help support the work that we do as organizations as well, dependent on the organization that you work in, I suppose. Just just get in touch and you know we hold events. We have a national um sight loss conference, sightless council's conference, where we look for sighted guides to come and help support those people to be able to enjoy their experience. So there's lots of ways that you can get involved. You know we work with people who may do some work with us, um to produce some filming content, for example, for, you know, any students that might want to grow their portfolio. Um, we've done that a couple of times before. We're quite creative, as you've said already, so if you want to help, get in touch.

Speaker 2:

I will find a way that you can help us so thinking about your own experiences and all the many skills that you've developed and all the knowledge and experiences that have come through that, through the work that you've done over the years. So is there any advice that you would give to um in any you know person with his experience? Somebody's a person with a disability in terms of how they could literally advance their careers within the organizations they're currently working for or branch out and find other organizations to work for.

Speaker 3:

Take a step back and think about your skills there are. Quite often people look at job advertisements and they don't tick the box. They don't tick the criteria of what an employer is asking for. But there are so many transferable skills that we have, we develop. We sometimes just have to have to live as disabled people and really think about how the skills that you've got transfer into whatever role it is that you're looking for.

Speaker 3:

So if you don't have a particular qualification or you don't have the five years of X, y or Z experience that an employee is asking for, don't let it put you off too much, because there will be not always, but you know. Think about the ways that what you already have done you can transfer to something else. Be confident, like know your worth, like you are amazing. There is so much that you have to offer and make sure people see, understand and feel what, what you're bringing to the table.

Speaker 3:

I think it can be hard when you're um leaving university or you know you're younger and you're starting on the journey of your career. But managing your expectations as well can sometimes be quite difficult. If your end goal is to be, I don't know, x, y or z, it doesn't mean that you have to start at that x, y or z. Figure out ways of how you can gain experience by shadowing people, volunteering for organizations, getting those skills that maybe you don't have at the moment, but being aware of how you can get to your end goal by doing the a, b and c to get you to the x, y and z thank you, louise.

Speaker 2:

And just to end this podcast on a really sort of like happy note, because this is the point where we talk about the future, we talk about the sunny uplands, the sort of like the bright, sort of like breezy meadows we can look forward to, particularly here now in winter time, and it seems like we're going to wait for months and months and months before before we see the sunlight ever again.

Speaker 2:

So what do you think the world might look like in the future, what do you hope it will look like? And, um, so if we were to come back in, come back into this room in 5, 10 or 15 years, what? What do we think the world, how the world might change for people with disabilities in terms of more awareness, hopefully, and more acceptance and understanding?

Speaker 3:

I, I, I hope, really hope that that is the case and it should be relatively easy to achieve. So, raising awareness, having the conversations being open, being frank, you know, there are a lot of things that are, let's just say, in the pipeline within local and national governments that should potentially bring the playing field to be more level. But we that we can't achieve that without society changing its perception of disabled people as well. And I think, going back to the point that we talked about a little bit earlier about you know you're never too far away from potentially becoming disabled yourself Is that people are just more accepting and understanding to listen but also believe what people say when they say it.

Speaker 3:

Access to work we've mentioned a couple of times. Access to work we've mentioned a couple of times. I think if that is shared much wider and people truly understand what it's for, how it can help people, like how there are things and people and organisations out there that already exist that are doing some amazing work to improve disabled people, some amazing work to improve, uh, disabled people accessing society and accessing employment already, um, but I would hope in 5, 10, 15 years time that we are at more of a level, equal playing field in terms of bridging that employment gap, um, and having fully accessible transport to enable people to not only get to and from work but to live a fulfilled lifestyle as well.

Speaker 2:

Fingers crossed going back to because, um, that was a brilliant point you raised earlier and and and just now, which is basically getting getting more allies, really getting more people to actually because because we can't just change the world by ourselves. You know much as I would like to Probably a good thing that I can't. Many people who know me might think that. Do you think that part of getting other people you know, allies, more allies from outside the disabled community, to be more supportive, understanding of the issues and barriers that we face and campaigning alongside us to have those barriers and challenges removed is an awareness of the costs? So, for instance, we talked a lot about the personal costs that we face, but there's also the shared costs that I don't think grab attention the way that they should do. Like I know, we said we weren't going to name certain brands of assistive technologies, but we can name people we know who are champions within our community, can't we? That's right.

Speaker 2:

So we're both connected with mark fosbrook brilliant guy yeah, I think during the conference we were both at, he said I think you were there with me when he said it, but the the annual cost to the uk economy of unemployment for people with disabilities is around 38 billion pounds every single year crazy which is, yeah, it is.

Speaker 2:

And you think about at the moment, where we're discussing the kind of cuts to services that might have to come into account for the current financial black hole, is all of this is very, very easily, like you know, taken care of.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, if we just literally sort this problem out it is, and I think as well, like in in life, people can have conversations and be on different sides of the coin. Like you can flip things for a different angle and look at it a different way um, to suit the narrative sometimes. But like we talk about these costs and the extra costs, there's also so much like the purple pound is worth like 250 billion pounds a year that if your services or your spaces, your venues whatever it is that you're providing are accessible, disabled people are more likely to come and spend the money in your spaces. So you know there are also financial incentives from the other side of the coin. And I go back to an example.

Speaker 3:

I don't know if, now that we're name dropping, we're in there now, but I don't know if you know, sarah Rennie, I work with a brilliant transport consultant on a couple of different projects and we were having a conversation recently about how often people will forget that it's not just the disabled person's business that you're losing.

Speaker 3:

So she's a wheelchair user. If she can't access the train to get to her girls' day out in London, that she's going with her sister and five friends and they're going to have to get a taxi instead or find some alternative way of getting from point A to point B, then you're losing five, six, seven, eight people's income, not just the disabled wheelchair user who can't physically access the transport that you're providing like there's. There's a whole host, a whole heap more. If we're going to a restaurant and I can't access the restaurant or the menu or whatever, we'll choose somewhere that we can. So that is continued business that goes elsewhere that, if you made small changes, would be coming your way as well. So it very much depends on which side of the coin you're looking at. Yes, it's difficult. Yes, there are huge pay gaps and huge employment gaps, but if you do things right and you involve disabled people and encourage disabled people, there's also a huge positive financial, economical benefit to society as well.

Speaker 2:

But thinking about your own life in terms of the future, what? What's going to happen? Moving forwards? What would a more accessible life be like for you?

Speaker 3:

oh, um, I suppose just having the opportunity to access anything that I want to access at any time.

Speaker 3:

I want to access it the same way as my next door neighbor's doing. So there are some really good incentives and some good technology in place, as we've discussed, um, but we still have to be extremely organized with where we go, when we go and how we go. As disabled people like having the ability to just go wherever I wanted and do whatever I wanted without having to put a whole heap of behind the scenes bits in to ensure that it's doable before you go would be wonderful. Yeah, I like to um term them as the golden nuggets. Uh, julian, you find the golden nuggets, and I've had conversations with people both inside our um disability communities but also outside um as advocates that when you find those golden nuggets and they truly get you, they understand you, they know why you're doing what you're doing. You don't then need to be in the same space because they have your back and they have those conversations when you're not there, and those golden nuggets are amazing to find.

Speaker 2:

But can I just say thank you so much, louise, for being such an inspirational, such a slight thought-provoking, such like and I'm generally such an incredibly sort of like informative and thought-provoking conversation today and I hope everybody listening has enjoyed this conversation as much as I.

Speaker 3:

Oh, thanks for having me Bye.