WEBVTT 00:00:03.666 --> 00:00:07.793 Welcome to the Meet Hope podcast, where we have conversations about faith and hope. 00:00:07.793 --> 00:00:14.512 Hope is one church made of people living out their faith through two expressions in person and online. 00:00:14.512 --> 00:00:21.545 We believe a hybrid faith experience can lead to a growing influence in our community and our world for the sake of others. 00:00:22.881 --> 00:00:29.856 Welcome to Hope our world for the sake of others. 00:00:29.856 --> 00:00:30.760 Welcome to Hope. 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:33.780 Hey, welcome everybody to the Meet Hope Podcast. 00:00:33.780 --> 00:00:38.045 I'm Jeff Bills and I'm hosting this episode, and I am here with Pastor James Lee. 00:00:38.045 --> 00:00:47.356 So, as you probably know, james is going to be lead pastor here at Hope beginning July 1st. 00:00:47.356 --> 00:00:48.496 Woo-hoo, woo. 00:00:48.496 --> 00:01:02.335 We are very excited about that here at Hope, and so we're using the podcast format as a way to help you all get to know James a little bit better, as he's preparing to come. 00:01:02.335 --> 00:01:06.971 And so, james, welcome to Hope. 00:01:07.721 --> 00:01:08.263 Good to be here. 00:01:08.263 --> 00:01:09.728 Thank you for having me. 00:01:10.079 --> 00:01:15.972 Wow, and you actually did a podcast with us about a year ago or so. 00:01:16.519 --> 00:01:18.685 Yeah, I think we did two episodes. 00:01:18.685 --> 00:01:24.608 I believe one was on online church, yes, and we then talked about AI. 00:01:24.608 --> 00:01:26.945 Oh yeah, that was. 00:01:26.945 --> 00:01:28.430 That's not a thing anymore. 00:01:28.620 --> 00:01:31.686 Oh my gosh, I knew zero about AI. 00:01:31.686 --> 00:01:40.373 You and I were having a conversation preparing for the podcast and so we said, hey, let's just talk about AI, and my ignorance was on display. 00:01:40.373 --> 00:01:44.123 I don't know much more, but a little bit more. 00:01:44.123 --> 00:01:57.141 So, as we're getting to know you, as folks are getting to know you, obviously you've got a whole story that people are going to get to know over the years. 00:01:57.141 --> 00:02:01.031 But we'd love to talk about kind of your spiritual story. 00:02:01.031 --> 00:02:03.105 It starts with your background. 00:02:03.105 --> 00:02:07.581 You were raised in the faith and I believe your dad was a pastor, right? 00:02:07.983 --> 00:02:08.383 That's right. 00:02:08.383 --> 00:02:10.167 He retired two years ago. 00:02:10.167 --> 00:02:20.712 He came from South Korea in the 80s to study theology and I was born here, so I'm Korean American, born and raised here. 00:02:20.712 --> 00:02:32.852 My dad went through the United Methodist process, was ordained in the New York Conference and that meant growing up in all different churches. 00:02:32.852 --> 00:02:39.491 So he was appointed to predominantly white rural congregations. 00:02:39.491 --> 00:02:41.497 He was the only non. 00:02:41.497 --> 00:02:54.530 We were the only non-white family in maybe a 200 mile radius, and I remember living in a small parsonage where the church was across the street and to our left was cornfields and to our right was cornfields and there were no one lived anywhere near us. 00:02:54.530 --> 00:02:56.373 Wow, and that's where we lived. 00:02:56.373 --> 00:02:59.387 So I grew up in the church. 00:02:59.387 --> 00:03:01.641 I grew up as a pastor's kid. 00:03:01.641 --> 00:03:07.927 I remember when I was about seven I was attending church and my dad was up in the pulpit. 00:03:07.927 --> 00:03:17.417 He was preaching and I felt in my heart what I now know was God speaking to me and saying you will do that one day you will be a pastor one day. 00:03:17.477 --> 00:03:29.548 Wow, and I shared it with my mom and I imagine she may have been having a rough week because she said oh no, no, no, you don't need to be a pastor. 00:03:29.548 --> 00:03:35.193 There are so many other ways that you can honor God, so you don't have to be a pastor. 00:03:35.193 --> 00:03:40.691 That's hysterical and I tossed that, what that? 00:03:40.691 --> 00:03:45.551 Whatever that was, I just decided to forget about it and uh shove it away. 00:03:50.022 --> 00:03:52.951 I grew up in the church. 00:03:52.951 --> 00:03:55.729 I served as a youth group leader. 00:03:55.729 --> 00:04:01.307 I was a worship leader in a youth group, but it wasn't up until the sophomore year in high school. 00:04:01.307 --> 00:04:06.804 Up until that point I lived a very rules-based faith. 00:04:06.804 --> 00:04:13.419 You know doing all the good things because I'm supposed to trying to be a good example as a pastor's kid, et cetera et cetera. 00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:16.581 Yeah, so just to stop there for a moment. 00:04:16.581 --> 00:04:21.084 So, being a pastor's kid, did you feel that as a part of? 00:04:21.084 --> 00:04:31.870 Did you feel that as a part of your whole identity, that I've got this role because of my dad's position? 00:04:32.250 --> 00:04:45.497 Yeah, absolutely there was a sense of there was a lot of expectations in our particular ministry context, especially that a pastor's kid should behave a certain way, act a certain way. 00:04:45.497 --> 00:04:51.365 And uh, I think in different stages of my life I responded differently to that. 00:04:51.365 --> 00:04:55.648 I think some years I was like, yeah, I will rise to the challenge and I will be a goody. 00:04:55.648 --> 00:04:59.610 Two shoes, and some years I rebelled very hard, uh. 00:04:59.610 --> 00:05:07.079 So I kind of went back and forth on that Interesting Uh, yeah. 00:05:07.079 --> 00:05:10.228 So I kind of went back and forth on that. 00:05:10.249 --> 00:05:12.535 Yeah, it was sophomore year in high school, in the summer. 00:05:12.535 --> 00:05:20.952 I went to soccer tryouts in the summer, okay, and came home and had a severe pain in my tailbone, to the point where I couldn't walk. 00:05:20.952 --> 00:05:24.089 I was limping everywhere, I was crawling everywhere. 00:05:24.089 --> 00:05:26.964 I was like, oh no, I probably have to go to hospital. 00:05:26.964 --> 00:05:37.312 But of course, being 15, 16, what was on my mind was I'm supposed to go to Six Flags with my friends tomorrow and I can't go. 00:05:37.312 --> 00:05:47.740 But I literally couldn't walk, I couldn't stand, I was crawling everywhere and I remember praying the dumbest prayer. 00:05:47.740 --> 00:05:49.005 I said Lord, if you're real. 00:05:49.005 --> 00:05:52.721 I said then please heal me so I could go to Six Flags tomorrow. 00:05:52.740 --> 00:05:57.711 I know, looking back, this is so dumb, but very 15, very 15. 00:05:57.711 --> 00:06:01.947 I prayed that prayer with as earnestly as I could and when I was 15, I went to bed. 00:06:01.947 --> 00:06:17.300 The next morning I wake up, I get up, I go to the bathroom and I start brushing my teeth and I realized I'm standing and I have no pain and I and something about that experience as silly as it was, something about that experience just changed everything for me. 00:06:17.300 --> 00:06:28.714 I remember at that point, suddenly all the Bible study, bible stories that I learned as a child, all the things I learned about grace became more and more real. 00:06:28.714 --> 00:06:35.452 Wow, I began to read the Bible on my own and it just was an exhilarating experience. 00:06:35.452 --> 00:06:40.071 I remember it being such a sweet experience reading scripture from that point on. 00:06:40.351 --> 00:06:44.670 Yeah, so that's when I officially gave my life to Jesus. 00:06:44.670 --> 00:06:50.062 Amazing At Six. 00:06:50.083 --> 00:07:03.331 Flags, riding roller coasters with my friends yeah, well it's, you know, when it's coupled with something so exciting as that, what a cool story that is so fast forward a bit. 00:07:03.331 --> 00:07:11.822 You had this seven-year-old sense of calling that got put on hold. 00:07:11.822 --> 00:07:12.464 When did that reemerge that? 00:07:12.464 --> 00:07:16.372 Yeah, I do feel God calling me into full-time ministry. 00:07:17.581 --> 00:07:19.903 Yeah, that reemerged at the end of college. 00:07:19.903 --> 00:07:35.713 So I started college studying at the Ernest Marriott School of Pharmacy at Rutgers in New Brunswick, transitioned to ultimately graduate with a cell bio neuroscience degree. 00:07:35.713 --> 00:07:42.630 So I was going the pre-med route, I was exploring, probably, a career in medicine in some kind career in medicine in some kind, okay. 00:07:42.630 --> 00:07:50.980 And uh, when I, as I was approaching graduation, uh, I had actually a completely different idea for myself. 00:07:50.980 --> 00:07:58.149 So I went in medicine, cause I thought that's a goody two-shoes thing to do, that's the parent pleasing thing to do, yeah, uh. 00:07:58.209 --> 00:08:10.865 But I always, uh, I for a long time loved filmmaking and I loved all things video production and I was saying, you know what, maybe I'll go to film school. 00:08:10.865 --> 00:08:15.286 And I had this whole plan made out to go to film school. 00:08:15.286 --> 00:08:32.662 And it was about two months before graduating college that God came knocking at my door again, when I was in the midst of prayer to go and apply for seminary, and I wrestled with it. 00:08:32.662 --> 00:08:40.144 I wrestled with it for I remember wrestling with it for hours because I didn't want to do it and I began to look inward. 00:08:40.144 --> 00:08:42.260 Why do I not want to do this? 00:08:42.260 --> 00:08:43.980 Why am I fighting this so hard? 00:08:43.980 --> 00:08:44.121 Why? 00:08:44.142 --> 00:08:45.306 do I not want to do this. 00:08:45.306 --> 00:08:47.474 Why am I fighting this so hard? 00:08:47.474 --> 00:08:55.302 And realizing that I had internalized what my mom said all those years ago, and so I made a phone call to Korea. 00:08:55.302 --> 00:08:57.125 At that point, my parents had moved back to Korea. 00:08:57.366 --> 00:08:57.647 Okay. 00:08:58.489 --> 00:09:13.205 And and I talked with my parents about it and my dad had a very hard time hiding his excitement that his one of his sons at least, is pursuing a career in ministry and following his footsteps. 00:09:13.205 --> 00:09:19.341 But he was like you know, he was like okay, so tell me more about this, Right, and I could tell he was excited. 00:09:19.341 --> 00:09:21.801 But I was like, but give the phone to mom. 00:09:21.801 --> 00:09:26.279 I need to talk to mom and she asked me uh, what does Julie think? 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:29.261 Because I was dating Julie at the time. 00:09:29.261 --> 00:09:32.717 Um, I was surprised. 00:09:32.738 --> 00:09:37.657 my mom asked me that, and so I did ask for those who don't know Julie is your, julie is my now wife? 00:09:37.677 --> 00:09:38.818 Yeah, praise the Lord. 00:09:38.818 --> 00:09:45.708 Um, she was, yeah, so when we're dating, I was a pre-med student. 00:09:45.969 --> 00:09:46.909 I'll marry you, doctor. 00:09:46.929 --> 00:09:47.471 Yeah. 00:09:47.471 --> 00:09:54.849 So I asked her and I think naively, but she said no, I knew what I was doing. 00:09:54.849 --> 00:09:58.605 She said I'll go with you is what Julie said. 00:09:58.605 --> 00:10:07.048 And so I told God I will go to seminary but I won't be a pastor. 00:10:07.048 --> 00:10:12.366 And so that's how I got my foot in the door to go to seminary. 00:10:12.366 --> 00:10:22.975 And since then there's so many steps along the way, but God has just been warming my heart, one step at a time, to surrender to the call to be a pastor. 00:10:23.436 --> 00:10:28.626 And now I'm very, yeah, just honored that God was so patient with me. 00:10:29.168 --> 00:10:29.649 I love that. 00:10:29.649 --> 00:10:56.126 You know it's so interesting to me the number of pastors I know myself included, pastor Rick included who did not want to go into pastoral ministry and resisted that for varieties of reasons, and you know God is so faithful in using reluctant people. 00:10:56.126 --> 00:11:09.068 Yeah yeah, so at some point along the way, pastoral ministry became your calling, right? 00:11:09.068 --> 00:11:12.600 Yes, yes, yeah, what that look like. 00:11:14.437 --> 00:11:16.464 I think that was a slow process. 00:11:16.464 --> 00:11:36.243 So when I started attending seminary the church that I was attending at the time, calvary Korean United Methodist Church in East Brunswick they were looking for a children's ministry pastor and I said, well, I could use the income, the part-time income being a grad student is very expensive. 00:11:37.245 --> 00:11:58.863 And so I started there Actually, after four years of that and graduating seminary actually for a while, I said I'm done with ministry and I went all out in my other dream, which was to be a filmmaker, and I started a wedding film company. 00:11:58.863 --> 00:12:02.980 Okay, and I did wedding films for a few years and I made good money. 00:12:02.980 --> 00:12:06.345 I was very, very proud of what I had done there. 00:12:06.345 --> 00:12:15.745 And then I needed health insurance because we were having kids and health insurance as a business owner is very expensive, yeah. 00:12:15.745 --> 00:12:23.542 And so the conference was hiring for a video producer and I said, well, they're offering health insurance, so let me apply. 00:12:23.542 --> 00:12:25.246 Sure enough, I got the job. 00:12:25.575 --> 00:12:50.750 Now again, just for listeners who may not know, conference is when we talk about the conference, it's the Greater New Jersey Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church, so it's all of the United Methodist churches within New Jersey, and so this is the kind of administrative structure, ministry structure of our area Exactly. 00:12:51.054 --> 00:13:06.587 So sort of the umbrella network of about 500 to 600 churches throughout New Jersey, and my job at the time was to capture videos and video stories of churches that have been helping with Hurricane Sandy and video stories of churches that have been helping with Hurricane Sandy. 00:13:06.607 --> 00:13:15.501 And as I traveled up and down the shore, I saw churches of all shapes and sizes, churches that were very different from mine. 00:13:15.501 --> 00:13:43.864 What I experienced, and I saw God doing amazing things in and through those churches, and it was during that time that I began to truly believe that the local church is the hope of the world, that when there is brokenness, when there is pain, when there's suffering, what the world needs is not better legislation or better rules, which I mean all those things are important, right, but what the world really needs is the church to be the church. 00:13:43.864 --> 00:13:46.380 Yes, things are important, right, but what the world really needs is the church to be the church. 00:13:46.380 --> 00:13:46.761 Yes, and uh, that is. 00:13:46.761 --> 00:13:52.556 And when god came knocking again, said okay, you had your, you had your fun, it's time to come back. 00:13:52.556 --> 00:13:53.799 I was ready, I, I was. 00:13:53.799 --> 00:13:55.264 I was like yes, lord, I'm ready. 00:13:55.264 --> 00:13:58.192 Um, I'll go where you send me. 00:13:58.955 --> 00:13:59.635 so how cool he. 00:13:59.635 --> 00:14:04.125 He lets you uh live into that dream of video yeah, yeah, yeah, that thing Right. 00:14:05.769 --> 00:14:07.474 But the call came back. 00:14:07.474 --> 00:14:12.765 Yeah, so you and I share this passion for the local church. 00:14:12.765 --> 00:14:40.090 The way I refer to the local church is it's God's dream community that when the church is functioning the way that God intends the church to function, that there is no better system, there's no better community in the world than the local church, as people care for each other and support each other and encourage each other and challenge each other to live into this faith. 00:14:40.090 --> 00:14:47.823 When that's happening, it is life-giving and it is such a joy to be a part of. 00:14:47.823 --> 00:14:55.027 So when you think about the local church so you saw it happening. 00:14:55.027 --> 00:14:59.942 How do you describe the local church? 00:15:00.445 --> 00:15:01.086 Yeah, I love that. 00:15:01.086 --> 00:15:02.578 I'm going to steal that. 00:15:02.578 --> 00:15:04.004 Jeff, God's dream community. 00:15:04.004 --> 00:15:06.201 I just wrote that down. 00:15:06.315 --> 00:15:08.143 That's something I will definitely take with me. 00:15:08.143 --> 00:15:12.385 The church is 1 Corinthians 12. 00:15:12.385 --> 00:15:13.480 It's the body of Christ. 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:32.004 When I think about the church, I see it as a gathering of people who are living for others, are living for others, and so typically, when I do like membership class for churches, I say are you sure you want to take a minute to become a member of this church? 00:15:32.004 --> 00:15:45.059 Because the moment that you join the church as a member, the church stops being for you, because now you are the church and and you are for others. 00:15:45.059 --> 00:15:53.245 Right, and the church is for the world, and so I think the church is a gathering of not spiritual, consumers. 00:15:53.245 --> 00:16:03.587 When the church really lives into its calling, it's a network and coming together of spiritual contributors that are no longer thinking what is it? 00:16:03.587 --> 00:16:09.384 This is not a membership, it's not a club where you say, hey, what's in it for me? 00:16:09.384 --> 00:16:12.624 It's right, the church is not for you anymore. 00:16:12.624 --> 00:16:14.964 You are the church and the church is for the world. 00:16:15.615 --> 00:16:19.467 I love the way that Hope Church talks about discipleship. 00:16:19.467 --> 00:16:25.241 A disciple is someone who is on a journey of being conformed into the image of Christ for the sake of others. 00:16:25.241 --> 00:16:26.043 Yes, of Christ for the sake of others. 00:16:26.043 --> 00:16:33.010 Yes, I think that is the key part of the key characteristic of how a church is different from any other organization. 00:16:33.010 --> 00:16:39.288 I say the church is an organism, right, the body of Christ, that is for the world. 00:16:39.793 --> 00:16:43.645 Yeah, so it's not about structures and so forth. 00:16:43.645 --> 00:17:04.085 They exist in order for us to do the work that we're called to do, exactly so, as pastor and you've been a pastor of two, three other churches- Three other churches, so I was the associate at Calvary Korean. 00:17:04.085 --> 00:17:04.506 Okay. 00:17:05.276 --> 00:17:15.787 And I led a small church in South River called Conklin, and then I was at Wesley, south Plainfield for four and a half years. 00:17:17.194 --> 00:17:25.962 So in that role, what do you understand the pastor's role to be in the context of the faith community? 00:17:25.982 --> 00:17:27.263 I love that role to be in the context of faith community. 00:17:27.544 --> 00:17:28.025 I love that. 00:17:28.986 --> 00:18:01.665 So in Ephesians it talks about the leader of the church being someone who equips the saints, and I see the pastor as someone who is not supposed to do all the things but really is to equip the church and to recognize the gifts of all the different, all of God's people, and to elevate it, to bring it out so that, uh, the world can benefit from it and everyone can experience more goodness in the world. 00:18:01.665 --> 00:18:06.443 So, uh, I often say a pastor is always working themselves out of a job. 00:18:06.443 --> 00:18:07.807 Yeah, yeah, right. 00:18:07.807 --> 00:18:12.238 Uh say a pastor is always working themselves out of a job. 00:18:12.278 --> 00:18:17.528 Yeah, yeah, right, uh, uh, because our role is to step away and to lift up the people around us, and what a joy I mean that that has been. 00:18:17.528 --> 00:18:59.628 The great joy of of ministry here is, uh, seeing people what I describe as get in the game, right, that that they discover that they've got some gifts, they've got passions and talents and so forth, and as they start to use those and exercise those and see God work around them, their faith just ignites, you know, and they do things and get involved in things that they never imagined, and the church benefits right, and so, yeah, that's the great joy of the job. 00:18:59.628 --> 00:19:03.617 It's kind of coaching, right, and cheerleading at the same time. 00:19:03.617 --> 00:19:03.817 That's it. 00:19:03.817 --> 00:19:06.575 Yeah, cheerleading at the same time, that's it, yeah. 00:19:08.017 --> 00:19:13.582 Well, james, I'm excited about your coming on board. 00:19:13.582 --> 00:19:57.150 You've been here since last June, and so people have already started to get to know you, and so it's going to be a very natural thing, I think, as you step into this role, and I'm praying for you, praying for Julie, and I can't wait for folks who haven't gotten to know you yet to be able to get to know you and to hear from you and see where God leads this church through you into the future. 00:19:57.150 --> 00:20:00.494 So, friends, thanks for tuning in to this episode of Meet Hope and we'll look forward to being with you again next week. 00:20:01.215 --> 00:20:05.807 Thanks for being a part of the Hope Community as we continue our conversations about faith and hope. 00:20:05.807 --> 00:20:10.226 If you don't already, please join us for worship on Sundays or on demand. 00:20:10.226 --> 00:20:16.228 You can learn more at meethopeorg or find us on socials at meethopechurch.