The Meet Hope Podcast
The Meet Hope Podcast
132: Cultivating Joy Together: Why Choosing Fun Matters in Your Marriage
Why does fun matter in a marriage and how do we fit it in? Amanda and Lou Cavaliere share how they've navigated the challenges of prioritizing fun in their 22-year marriage despite having completely different interests. Be sure to share with your spouse, partner, or friends who could enjoy it too!
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Welcome to the Meet Hope Podcast, where we have conversations about faith and hope. Hope is one church made of people living out their faith through two expressions in person and online. We believe a hybrid faith experience can lead to a growing influence in our community and our world for the sake of others. Welcome to Hope.
Speaker 2:Hi everyone, Welcome to the Meet Hope podcast. My name is Ashley Black and I'm excited to be here today with you, our listeners, and I also have with me Amanda and Lou Cavalieri. Hey guys, how are you doing? Hi, Ashley, Great.
Speaker 3:Hello.
Speaker 2:Hi, so thank you for being here. So today's episode we're talking about how to have fun in our marriage and, amanda, this episode came out of you recently, on a Sunday morning, you were talking about something in marriage and family parenting ministry and you talked about prioritizing fun and I went oh, that might be a really great conversation, and so that's kind of how we landed here. You guys also host a small group for couples, for married couples. Right, we do? Yeah, correct, and so, yeah, so thanks for being here. So, since we're talking about fun, how good are you at having fun?
Speaker 4:Thank you for asking. So we will be married 22 years this summer and before we got married we went through a pre-marriage mentoring program at the church we were attending at the time and we do the same thing here at Hope. We do pre-marital mentoring and part of that is taking a survey, answering a lot of questions, right? So I answered a lot of questions separately, lou answered a lot of questions separately, and then the machine spits out the results.
Speaker 2:Yes, I remember Chris and I doing it and I'd be like what are you putting? That's cheating.
Speaker 1:We didn't cheat we didn't cheat, but we were like what are you going to say about us?
Speaker 2:It was fine, just for everybody listening. It went fine. Yes, yeah, it obviously went fine, right? So?
Speaker 4:we met with the way that we did it back then. 23 years ago, we met with our pastor and he sits down across a desk from us and he pulls out the papers and he's like well, these are very interesting results.
Speaker 2:Always something you love to hear. I was like oh no, different, interesting, unique, great, makes you feel real comfortable right away.
Speaker 4:And he says you guys scored 100% on communication and connection. He's like I've never seen that and we were like feeling great. We're like, yes, we communicate.
Speaker 4:We're going to be the perfect, you're so great, and he said but you scored a 40% on leisure. He's like this doesn't make any sense, right? Like leisure, the fun stuff is typically the stuff that people do well, and you have to work at the other things. And so I mean I'm kind of like well, what's the big deal? Right, so we can communicate and we can, we're connected, so we don't have so much fun. Except, fun is actually a really big deal. But because we are so different and a lot of couples are right we are wired so differently. We have completely different interests. Fun is hard for us.
Speaker 2:Okay, can you tell us a little bit about what your different interests are?
Speaker 3:Sure, Well, a man doesn't like to ride a bike. So just to let everyone know where I'm coming from here, I mean, that's a better question. That person probably said like what do you know the? Other doesn't like to do. No, but in all seriousness. I mean I grew up playing sports, and I mean always outdoors Like only read a book if I was required to do so for school, whereas Amanda loves to read you know You're extroverted, I'm extroverted, I'm introverted to read, you know, and you know you're extroverted.
Speaker 3:Extroverted, which again I think is the same in a lot of you know, relationships, marriages, um, you know, one is usually the extrovert, one is introvert, but that, I mean, that's not got created. Us, you know to be different and I think that's a lot of times, opposite attract. Um, so, you know, I'm sure that there's a lot of couples, or you know people out there, that probably struggle with the same thing, Trying to find like interests and things to do together.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so it's that you know we have to actually work at finding things to do together for fun. Because there's not a whole lot that we both enjoy doing for fun. Yeah, I will say.
Speaker 3:I got Amanda on a bike 20 years into our marriage Nice, but not on a road. Got Amanda on a bike 20 years into our marriage but not on a road.
Speaker 2:Not on a road. I had to be on a back state park. Baby steps.
Speaker 3:We were the only ones in the park, I think.
Speaker 2:I like that you said in the beginning or when you were talking about the survey that you did, that you were like it's not a big deal, because I feel like when you're getting into a serious relationship, when you get engaged and you choose to get married, like it's not necessarily stressed, like it's assumed that you're already like have fun together because that's how you dated and so. But all those other things are like you hear them everywhere like you have to be good at communicating, conflict resolution, like there's like all these, like bars that you feel like you have to meet to have a good relationship. So I get that.
Speaker 4:That why you'd be like why is that a big deal? And truly, and where it gets tricky is what life gets busy. Right, you get married, you're, maybe you have kids, and the first thing to go is the fun stuff. Right, we're working, we're taking care of teenagers, we're working, we're taking care of teenagers, we're caring for aging parents, we're paying bills, we're taking care of the house on and on and on and on. So we're exhausted a lot, and so the first thing to go often is the fun things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but do you believe God cares about us having fun? A thousand percent yeah, me too.
Speaker 4:Yeah, obviously A thousand percent. I think all of us.
Speaker 4:We wouldn't be at hope if we didn't think that Nehemiah 8.10 says the joy of the Lord is my strength. We get strength from joy, and so when life gets hard and it does get hard we need to have that joy to help carry us through it. And so what joy provides is that connection with our spouse that will help to carry us through the more challenging days, Right, Um, and it just we're going to go through seasons that are going to be easier than others and, um, even just in a regular year, like summer, it's easier to do date nights or it's easier to vacation and things like that. And then the busier seasons of the year, those dynamics change, and so it's important to be cultivating and taking time in our lives to build that joy in to help us when life gets more challenging.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, because we were talking about last night in our small group how busyness steals our joy and our fun and how important it is, like you said, to cultivate that and like I was reading in Galatians 5.22, the fruit of the spirit is joy, and you were mentioning the Nehemiah verse, and when you walk by the spirit as a Christian, there should obviously be joy in our life. And so you had mentioned too how we get so busy. And I wanted to add driving the kids. We were joking earlier how when they were on the mission trip it was, I don't think I filled up my gas tank once, and then they get home and then we're taxing them and driving them all around and I dated myself there, so we just talked about it.
Speaker 2:We Ubered them all around and I dated myself there, so we just talked about it.
Speaker 3:We Ubered them all around Because you have two teenagers, yes, and so we're trying to figure out how to be in two different locations at the same time and so, yeah, so usually the first thing to go is the fun and marriage.
Speaker 2:Yeah, especially if you have two and you're in two different places often. Yeah, like passing With dad or yeah, two and you're in two different places often, right, yeah?
Speaker 4:like passing, you know that. Or yeah, like he'll take one, I'll take the other and keep people have multiple children, or you're even split even more and more and more, you know, or whatever the demands are, whether it's not kids, it could be just work, it could be, parents.
Speaker 2:It could be anything that are pulling us yeah, when we live in a culture that's like always on them on the move like chris and I talk about this a lot like we, since we went through the pandemic, something that came out of it for our, our family and us as a couple was like we recognized, like how much we felt like we were doing and we wanted to be better about like slowing down or like being more intentional about what we chose to spend our time on and we're not perfect in it in any way.
Speaker 2:But it's like a lot of our conversation is around like before we say yes to something. It's like okay, what's gonna be like? Is it what? Like? Is it gonna pull away from our fun over here or is it gonna pull away from time together and you know, um? But?
Speaker 3:but we don't live in a world that rewards slowing down and no having no fun, you know, yeah, yeah, everything's got a big, got a big 100 miles an hour, and that's again the slowing down. And again we talked about that last night.
Speaker 2:What do?
Speaker 3:you do to slow down, and what does that look like?
Speaker 2:What did some of the people in your small group say?
Speaker 4:So it was an interesting conversation. Some are really good about hey, we're going to just take a day Retirement day. Retirement day. They call it a retirement day and we're just going to go play pickleball, or just.
Speaker 4:We talked about either intentionally slowing down, so figuring out those times of our lives when we are more hurried or more rushed, like mornings are crazy. So the night before we're going to get all those things under control so that we're not running all the time or we're not going to be on our phone or walking in the door like we're going to try and slow that down, or we're going to pay more attention to those spontaneous opportunities, like when we are driving somewhere and there'll be like a lookout and Lou will say, hey, let's pull over and look, and I'm always like no we've got to get to where we've got to get to, but saying yes to more of those small opportunities to like let's stop and watch the sunset, let's stop and dance to this song in our kitchen, right, and even just those little things, if we can build them in our day, help.
Speaker 2:You know, those are the moments that bring us joy, yeah, and what I hear you guys talking about in that is also like listening to each other which I'm sure gets harder if you have kids and if life gets or work brings more demands as you move up in your career or things change, you know, and it can be harder. I think it can be easier. We're not as far along in our marriage as you guys we will be married seven years this year but I've noticed for us it gets harder. There I feel like it's like the first yes. I stopped saying like, not not because we mean to, but because we have to say yes to our kids, or we have to say we have to go feed them or we have to go do this, and I don't know what the right word is. You feel like you can lean on that person a little bit more in hard times and that's a good thing, but also Psalm 90 talks about teaching us to number our days.
Speaker 4:For us to be keenly aware that every day is a gift and we want to make sure that, within each day, we are turning towards our spouse, whether it be in a small way, like dancing in a kitchen, or a larger way, like taking the whole day to go do something together. We want to be turning towards our spouse every day because it is a gift.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that phrase turning towards our spouse. So why have fun now? Because, like you guys mentioned, life gets hard, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it will. And the marriages that will have a better chance to survive are those when you have a strong emotional connection with your spouse, right, and we draw from and we lean on a strong emotional connection with our spouse because of the shared experiences we have, right. So we might think, oh, we're going axing, like that's kind of dumb and you know like what is that. But you know, we go and we have a great time with one another, with other couples. It creates that experience that draws us closer right.
Speaker 3:Those things build intimacy and that is so important to the health of a marriage yeah, and the playfulness refreshes our souls and lifts us out of those daily ruts that we were talking about earlier. It does. It truly lightens our loads and brings us closer together, like you're saying.
Speaker 4:Yeah, play is not just for kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I recently was talking to another adult about this how, as adults, we don't play, we don't engage in play, and how much there is playfulness in the spirit of God, and how we're invited into that and what it does for our bodies and our minds when we play you know, and so yeah, so. So how do you guys have fun? How would you suggest other couples have fun if for them this is something where they're like wow, we haven't, we haven't been pursuing this yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:so one of the things that we were challenged to do when we got married was to spend a weekend away each year together, so we have really worked hard at making sure that we always prioritize that, and so we will plan. It's usually around our anniversary, a time where it's two or three, maybe four nights that we get to get away, and this has looked different in all seasons, like when our kids were babies.
Speaker 4:we couldn't do that, and so it was like a night down the shore, or even sometime we had to bring a baby because they were tiny, or during COVID. This didn't work, you know but and there were times where money was tighter, so we had to be super creative of like, oh, we have a friend who has a house, can we borrow it for a weekend?
Speaker 2:that kind of thing yeah, and it's important for everybody listening to know, like, when you make us, when we make suggestions here, yes, it is not like the hard and fast like and it was went, perfect and it's no like an arrow to it's no it's.
Speaker 4:It's going to change and it's going to look different for everyone. But something that we did learn was this is an investment in our marriage. So, there were times when we were like, gosh, there is not a whole lot in our savings account and it probably isn't the smartest thing and we're not saying to be reckless with your finances, but money that you spend into that time, you are making an investment in your marriage, right? So we try to prioritize that as best as we can.
Speaker 3:And even the date nights. Date nights.
Speaker 4:So when we go away, we try to build in like we try to always go somewhere different Cause I'm like. I'm like I want to go someplace new. There's so many places. And he was like let's just go to the same place every year Cause we loved it.
Speaker 2:I mean Chris and I are the same. I'm similar to you. I've got my. I love making a Google map list. I love looking where we're going and I make a whole list of like look at all these places we can do and eat and go, and he's like I'm good with, the beach was great, let's go.
Speaker 3:But to that. There is adventure in that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:There's adventure in and again that shared experience of creating those new memories right, and so we have done things like white whitewater rafting. I did go biking. I went biking twice. I went biking in virginia and delaware, just so you know.
Speaker 2:I got on a bike twice everybody lou looks like he's gonna go look that up I only recall one of those events and Chincoteague and Cape Ham Open.
Speaker 3:Okay, I think you're right.
Speaker 4:Wine tasting, sailing just different things.
Speaker 3:Hiking.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and then date nights here. So we've done things like you know. We did a date night with friends where we went and like learned how to cook something, and that was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:That was a lot of fun here with church.
Speaker 4:we've done, we've done the ax throwing, we've done bowling, we've done bonfire nights, game nights, you know it. It doesn't have to be expensive, it doesn't have to be crazy, but when you try new things together, it creates, you know, when we learn new things, it creates new neural pathways in our brains. Creates, you know, when we learn new things, it creates new neural pathways in our brains. Right, and we can do that our entire life. So the more new things we learn, the more pathways in our brain that are getting, that are getting created, the more connected we're going to be to our spouse when we share those things with them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a really great visual. Even just to think about, like when you ever seen graphics of like neurons and brain things, like you could even imagine, like in both of you making new ones, they're moving towards each other.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:I was thinking while you were talking about how grateful I have been for couples who have gone before us who have provided little like moments of investment in us in those ways when it's when we're in a're in a new season of our life. So when we had our first son, I really appreciated someone, um a friend of ours who goes here in. At my baby shower the gift was like one baby thing, but then it was like two or three board games and like a book and there was post-its on each one and it was like, look, I know there's not gonna be a lot of time, but when our kid, when we were in between those like waking hours, we would play cribbage.
Speaker 2:And so here's a cribbage board and like learn how to play and it was like so thoughtful Then it was so like it met us right where we were. Something else Chris and I try to do right now because of the season of life we're in. So, if anybody's listening, we have a five-year-old and a one-year-old is.
Speaker 2:we found that we have a pocket of time where our schedules line up during the week and every other week that we go and get coffee and uh in the morning which like took us a while to recognize, because usually you think like date night, you have to get child care and also they don't go to bed really well right now, and it's just like a whole thing. And so it's been a. We both look forward to it that we're like, even if it's just a half an hour that we we drop them off, child care comes, we run to get a cup of coffee and we try to be intentional about talking, and so that's how we've had to get creative with our schedule and it is all about creativity.
Speaker 4:We do a lot more date lunches now during the school year because both kids are at school and if he has some time off and I can get away like those two hours first of all, lunch is cheaper.
Speaker 1:We're not exhausted, you know.
Speaker 4:And that's okay. Like, however you build the time in. Maybe it's a saturday morning breakfast thing, maybe it's a when our kids were little we'd put them to bed a little earlier and order dinner in, you know, and just like have have that time at home. Yeah, it doesn't really matter how you do it or what it looks like for your marriage, just that you are making it a priority yeah, so.
Speaker 2:So it changes as seasons change, Does it?
Speaker 4:it doesn't always is it always fun? It's, you know I. What we are finding is that something that was maybe fun 20 years ago isn't fun anymore. As we are changing, so are our interests.
Speaker 3:We just went to a concert. That's what she's talking about, do you?
Speaker 2:guys have an example. Yes, we do.
Speaker 4:So before interests, we just went to a concert. Do you guys have an example? Yes, we do. Before we were dating, we went to a concert and we used to go to a lot of concerts early in our marriage and we loved it.
Speaker 3:We loved it.
Speaker 4:We haven't been in a long time and we went to a concert two weeks ago.
Speaker 3:The company was great.
Speaker 4:We had a lot of fun we had a lot of fun with the people we went with, but we then realized at like 10 o'clock we're like we're tired. I was ready for bed and we want to go to bed and we it was a fun night and we're done, you know and our friends.
Speaker 3:Just like my ears were ringing, I had an earplug in.
Speaker 4:I was like man and we're like I don't, I don't know that we find this so much fun anymore, and that's okay right. Everything changes to be fun. It's not anymore. Let's try something else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think that's that's so important. Um, so you mentioned that as a marriage ministry here, that that you host date night. Yep, yeah, I want to talk more about. Do you want to talk more about that?
Speaker 4:So we try to do date nights about every four to four to six a year, I would say here, depending on the season of year, and we try and build in some things we do here at hope and some things we do off site. Um, just opportunities to get together with other couples, because you want that connection with your spouse and it's also nice to connect with other couples too, right, yeah, um, build some community and relationships around that as well. So the next one coming up is our, our annual cornhole challenge, which is in august. Yeah, which, how many years have you?
Speaker 2:guys, this is the third year.
Speaker 4:So, we do this right at Hope. It is just a fun night. You know it's not. If you're like a serious need, all the rules cornhole player, leave that at home. But it's just a fun night to be together. We have snacks, we have prizes, we have childcare available for people with younger kids, and then we do different things throughout the year. So last year we did the Axe Throne, we did a game night, we did a bonfire night, We've done restaurant nights, we've done bowling. We've done different things and I'm always looking for new ideas. So anybody who has an idea for a date night, I'm happy to reach out to me and we are happy to make that happen. Sometimes there are costs, sometimes they're free, sometimes they're here, sometimes they're home. It's, you know, just mix it up.
Speaker 2:Lots of different options. Lots of different options.
Speaker 4:That's great, yeah, to meet everyone's different um interests, cause there's a lot of them, and you know what Trying new things is so important? Yeah, so sometimes we try things. You know he likes the. He likes the sports stuff. I'm not so great in it, but I'll play pickleball.
Speaker 3:The other day. I was going to say the other day. She's like do you want to go pick a?
Speaker 4:woman. And you're like say yes before she changes her mind and like he likes to run, I like to walk. But sometimes we're like do you want to go for a walk with me?
Speaker 2:And He'll walk with me a little bit and then he'll run, or the opposite. It's just finding ways. What is something fun that each of you would like to try?
Speaker 4:I'm throwing this at you, oh, you are throwing this at me In real time.
Speaker 2:We can cut it if it doesn't go well.
Speaker 3:Let's say traveling.
Speaker 4:Well traveling. We have not gone to another country together where maybe English is not the first language. Um, there's lots of places I would like to go. Lou would like to just go skiing every year, cause he's a winter. He's a winter fun person, I'm a summer fun person.
Speaker 2:So do you do, do both, do you rotate? How do you?
Speaker 3:guysanda just sends me on a ski trip that is not.
Speaker 4:That is not fully true so because he loves to ski.
Speaker 2:He does, he goes on an annual ski trip with friends from high school which I also think is important for you guys to share. That it is okay, it is good to do to try each other things. And it is good to have time to go do the things that you do, because that also, I think sometimes that also helps draw you back towards each other.
Speaker 4:Absolutely yeah, he goes every winter for four days with his friends from high school skiing, and I'll go to the beach with my girlfriend you know, in warmer season which? Is so important, but we also take our family ski trip every year we do we take the kids and I go. I don't ski, but I'm happy to hang out at the house and read, because that's what's fun for me. And then the summer we tend to do summer We'll do a summer warmer weather vacation?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so we do. We do try to get to the winter vacation too. It's not just the summer vacation.
Speaker 3:Plug for the Hope ski trip which a bunch of us are planning.
Speaker 2:Are you planning one? I'm sure that would be popular.
Speaker 3:Ryan Tomlinson to give him credit. He's the one who approached me. Contact.
Speaker 2:Lou about a ski trip that sounds fun. I have never been skiing, I would love to learn, but it terrifies me a little bit.
Speaker 4:It is terrifying. I have tried it. I feel like if you didn't learn as a kid you look silly.
Speaker 3:Do one of the things I want to do Skydiving there you go, that's very adventurous Amanda. I'm an adventurer.
Speaker 4:I don't know that, I'll do that.
Speaker 3:I used to go mountain climbing. We'd have to rope in, rappel down. I think you'd like that. Yeah, some repelling.
Speaker 4:Mountain climbing I would do. I would try mountain like real mountain climbing, not just like on a rock wall in a gym. I would try mountain climbing.
Speaker 2:There you go, there you go.
Speaker 4:All right.
Speaker 2:So you guys report back about how mountain climbing goes. Yeah, I love that. Well, I love thank honestly sharing with us about how you have fun, where you're different, why that's okay, why it matters to have fun, and then it can be.
Speaker 4:It's it, it was hard for us, and it's. Some couples do this easily and some don't, and it's it's just something that you can work towards.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's awesome. Well, if you're listening, thank you so much for being a listener. If this episode meant something to you, pass it on to another couple. Maybe that you know that is wanting to pursue some fun. Or maybe you're going to text it to your spouse or your partner today because you want to go have fun with them. But please share with a friend, and you can always find us here at the Meat Hope podcast. We have new episodes every Monday, and you can find us at meethopeorg podcast or in your favorite podcast app and on social media, and so, until then, we hope that you find a way to have fun today and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 1:Thanks for being a part of the Hope Community as we continue our conversations about faith and hope. If you don't already, please join us for worship on Sundays or on demand. You can learn more at meethopeorg or find us on socials at Meet Hope Church.