Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
This is what the world needs now: two free-thinking “seasoned” Black women speaking their truth and inspiring others to do the same. Shaped by 45 years of friendship that began at the prestigious Brooklyn Technical High School through the Ivy League, medical school, marriages, divorces, triumphs, parenting queer children, life-threatening illness and many many amazing adventures. Each week, besties Leslie Osei-Tutu and Angella Fraser will push against boundaries in love, culture, careers, faith, politics and out-dated assumptions about women of a certain age. Remember, you’re never too old to change your mind…or your hair! (but more on that later :-)All views are our own and do not reflect the views of our institution/company. Information provided is not intended to serve as medical advice.
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
Contemplations on Another Tragedy
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A mass shooting occurred on a bus carrying students from the University of Virginia where three students were killed and 2 others injured. This hit Angella, in particular very hard- thus this episode discusses this event, some of the wider implications and more importantly is dedicated to the 3 deceased students Devon Chandler, D’Sean Perry and Lavel Davis, Jr.
Visit Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn website for behind-the-scenes extras.
So, Ange, um glad that we're here today and we're planning to record another episode of our podcast, Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
SPEAKER_01Brooklyn.
SPEAKER_00Now, we intended to continue our podcast concerning um part two of our comical yet serious faith journey. However, a couple of things came up during the week, and I noticed that you you now have been um not yourself, and we thought it best that we postpone that podcast and discuss a few other more serious things in this episode. So here goes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, thank you for that. As I um I just want to call uh the names of the three young men who were murdered in Charlottesville, Deshaun Perry, Lavelle Davis, and Devin Chandler. There are two other victims who are still in the hospital. I don't know their names. We pray to God that they are not on the list of the deceased, that they do recover. But I was just, you know, it it kind of loomed over my my week. I was finishing up the two plays that I was working on, and you know, I I I try not to I try to take uh positive energy into these spaces, especially because the you know the actors are preparing to go on stage and you you want to make sure that you are giving them as much positive vibes as as possible so that they can focus and put on a good performance. So I was able to to kind of manage it for for a while, but then it really hit me as I saw their faces uh across the the screen, as you know I have a connection with with the university through a family member, and so kind of hearing the backstory and just seeing those young men, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful young men, and just thinking about how much was invested in them. Also the the alleged murderer, these young men who were at a prestigious university, all that went into getting them there, this position of of success. I heard that the shooter was an honor student. Um not sure his entire story, but at the end of the day, just violence ripping through the lives of these young people, right? And you know that I have a a son at a university, a junior, and I I don't I won't even say that he was the first person that I thought about. I thought more about the promise of the future that was snuffed out. And I thought about the families, you know, you send your child off to university, and the furthest thing from your mind is that they're not gonna come home, is that you're gonna have to be planning their funeral, is that you're gonna have to try to make sense of another act of gun violence. And I was just uh almost carrying the the weight of that throughout my my days. And I I just want to thank you for kind of being there for me and and hearing it. I I I spoke to the person in my family, I I don't want to disclose too much who who uh ha has a connection to the university, and I uh it was just it was just really heavy. And so I I wanted to not avoid talking about these feelings and and why on the podcast, right? We've talked about mental health, we've talked about the fact that our days are not always joyful, and what typically happens when something like this or when there's uh there is a notable crime where black folks are involved, you people say black on black crime. I I was just talking to someone, I don't I don't know him well, but he said, I told him that I was feeling sad about what had gone on, and he says, Yeah, that's really sad. When are we gonna stop this black on black crime?
SPEAKER_00And I was like, Yeah, and I and you told me that that comment struck you and set you back a little bit. Why?
SPEAKER_02Well, because what what does what does that mean really? And why is that a thing? Why is that what why was that term coined black on black crime? Why have we ever heard white on white crime? Is that even a thing? No. Have we heard Asian on Asian crime or have it's not because other people don't kill people like them? Right. It's because once you name something, you you can say, look, those black people are violent. It's black, or you or you say, well, it doesn't matter that the police are killing unarmed black men and black women because they kill themselves. And yeah, why don't you look why don't you look in your own communities and fix that up before you complain about the police? How absurd is that? I've heard that many times.
SPEAKER_00Many times. Many times. You can't you only complain when cops are killing black people, but you don't complain when blacks are killing black people. Exactly. As though we don't mourn and complain and try to change our neighborhoods and look for interventions to stop such things. Right. But people don't refer to the causes of these crimes.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Yeah. They don't. And do you not think it's different when people who are charged to serve and protect creates violence versus you're here to serve and protect. You're there to serve and protect. We shouldn't use the problem. To do the opposite of what you're doing. People kill people who are who have who they have access to. So if you live in a black community, you're gonna kill, and and you you're violent, you're gonna kill black people. If you live in a white community, you're gonna kill white people. It's not that, you know, it's it's elementary. And so it bothers me so much when they name it, because it's always used as a weapon against us when things are named that way. When you start thinking about, oh, that's a white on white crime, and you think that that's absurd, why isn't it absurd when it's black on black crime? Why is it okay? Why is it okay when it's us when we're at, you know, when we're the ones who are being identified as being particularly violent people?
SPEAKER_00Well, by giving it that name, it perpetuates the image. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. So I reject it. I reject it. Who did you say was talking about it?
SPEAKER_00Um uh Clay Kane. Clay Kane. Uh uh SiriusXM's Urban View. He actually has a a series on white on white crime.
SPEAKER_02That's that's you know, white on white crime.
SPEAKER_00That's the weird because it's not something that we talk about. I mean I know. I know. It's very heavy.
SPEAKER_02We have to investigate things like this and not just go along because that's the way that things are done. We have to challenge things like that, you know, kind of try on something different and and see how absurd it is that we we do things one way versus another way, especially when it comes to black people in the black community.
SPEAKER_00Um what I liked is that you, and this is something you do all the time, how you actually, you know, called it out and said, you know, take it to another layer instead of just accepting that terminology and another black person using that tech uh that terminology as though it's okay and it's normal. Right. You don't typically um say it because he wasn't being malicious about it. No, not at all. He was lamenting that another issue of black on black crime, and you stopped right there and said, wait, let's just think about this. Take it to the next level. Right. Where is that coming from and why is there such a term to begin with?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, um, you know, it's these are you know me, I have a particular point of view about the ways that black people are put into particular boxes and made to either I gotta be honest, I am almost as as uh maybe not quite, but the the idea of black excellence or or you know, what's what's what's the other term that we that we use uh around kind of the elevation of of black people, black excellence. There's another term that escapes me now. And the reason why even that I have an issue with is because it makes it seem like you have to look and act a certain way to be considered valuable as a black person. You know, I know I know that's how I know that it's used in a positive way, but it's almost like the way that, you know, strong black woman, you know, on the surface, there's nothing wrong with that. You're saying strong black woman, and that's a nice banner to use, but we're not always strong. We're not always, you know, the expectation that we're always going to be able to withstand all the all the attacks that come against us. We're always gonna rise to the top, we're always gonna be able to take care of children, husbands, wives, the the the whole the whole thing, and perpetuating that idea of that that we don't have mental health issues, that no matter what, we're gonna we're gonna be be strong and rise. That's a lot of pressure to put on a group of people.
SPEAKER_00It's all it's almost like acknowledging an inhumanity. Exactly. Right exactly if you say that we are strong, it almost reminds me in medicine of how the trope, um racist trope of black people don't feel pain in the same way that whites do. Right. Hence our complaints of pain are disregarded and disrespected.
SPEAKER_02Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Strong black people don't need mental health care. Right. Strong black people, resilient people. Right. And when you dehumanize people in that way so that they don't humanly feel the same emotions that people of the dominant race feel. Right. Then you don't have to address their concerns. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Exactly.
SPEAKER_00So that to me is on the opposite side. This is deep. This is a lot.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's that that is the that is the negative effect of the strong black woman of the black don't crack. Hell, I crack. You know what I mean? I the world comes at me as hard as anyone else, and I feel it. And the idea that we don't feel it, we're always gonna rise above it, the fact that we have to me, it's an additional pressure on us to be magic. You know, black black girl magic. That's that's the other term. Is that what I said? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00That kind of girl magic.
SPEAKER_02We're we're we're people, we're we're just amazing human beings. And the fact that we do these almost insurmountable, we do these things over insurmountable odds, it comes at a price.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02You know, it comes at a price. And so I don't buy into those ideas. They they're too adjacent to me as you know, being a credit to your race, that whole idea. And, you know, uh so I just kind of respectability politics, that whole idea that you're only valuable if you look a certain way, if you show up a certain way, if you dress a certain way. So the boy who wears his pants sagging has less value than the boy who wears a nice suit on the street. Why does one have more value than the other? You know what I mean? Why why is that what we're gonna use to why can't that why can't both of them?
SPEAKER_00Why can't it be both and? Right. Why can't they just be free?
SPEAKER_02Both and why can't they just be free to show away the way they want? Why is one a criminal and one a a good guy? You know what I'm saying? Just sure those types of things. I think we should always uh we should always challenge how what is what is what is expected of us. I was thinking about there's some movies who there's a term for it like the the magic, oh my gosh, I'm gonna forget. The it's like that magic black person who shows up in movies and kind of saves the day or or just against all odds, they're they're the ones who kind of turn things around. We're we're we're just we're just people. We're just we're just people. We don't we don't have magic. We don't we're just we're just people and if you know if we're expected to always be the ones to to save the world, um that's that's a that's a lot of pressure. That's a whole lot of pressure.
SPEAKER_00So Anne, so you were really struggling with the idea of what happened, the tragedy in Charlottesville this week. So was all of this like swirling in your head because you've meant you mentioned it to me quite a few times, and I know going to sleep one night, you know, it you went on and on about it and stuff like I haven't really heard you s speak like that about I mean we've heard a lot of tragedies in the last few years. And you mentioned earlier about a little bit why this was particular to you given your connection to UVA, but some of what you just said, is that also things that you were thinking about?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I um if you will allow me to make a connection that may not be obvious, right? So when I hear about what happened in places like Tulsa and Wilmington, um North Carolina, and you know, so many other places across the United States where communities, thriving black communities were attacked and burned to the ground. And one of the things that I think about is how long it took for those people to scrimp and save generations and generations it took to get to that place where they could have something of value. Become independent and become independent and to pass.
SPEAKER_00Right? To pass on the legacy. What obstacles they had to overcome in order to they couldn't get mortgages, so they paid for homes and cash.
SPEAKER_02Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Open their own banks because they couldn't get loans.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And then in a moment, it's taken from them. In a moment it's taken from them, they're violated, they're they're murdered, and it's taken from them. I go back to that way of feeling because when I'm thinking about black people in particular, when I see them like this this incident in um in Charlottesville, and you know, the incident in Buffalo.
SPEAKER_00In Buffalo.
SPEAKER_02You know, yeah, I feel it. There was a mass murder here in in South Carolina. Um in South The reason why, and I think this is a question you were asking me is is the impact that I feel when it's black people who are snuffed out, who are murdered, whose lives are just abruptly brought to an end, why that has a particular impact on me. I think about everything that was invested in those lives to get them to where they are, and how over and above all of the natural basic feelings that any human being would feel over these types of deaths. There is the additional layer for black people to be able to recover from these types of tragedies. And so that's that's what I'm feeling, right? These boys were going to this prestigious university, right? It's not that they are more valuable because they they were at this prestigious university. I'm saying that because it took a lot to get them there. It took a lot to get them there, and and that's what I feel. That's what I feel, that that heaviness of the level of of grief. And how how how do you st how do you start over again? And I don't know if, you know, it's not about people agreeing with my point of view. That's that's not what I am looking for. What I'm hopefully offering is a perspective that some people may not may not hold, you know. It shouldn't it shouldn't matter whether it's black people or white people, it shouldn't matter. Right, you're right, it shouldn't be right. It shouldn't, it should not matter. But I just kind of being a black woman, I know what it takes to to to get to certain points in life. Yeah, and now it's like you gotta, you know, you're going back past zero.
SPEAKER_00You know, it's just it's we never start at zero. We never start at zero.
SPEAKER_02No, you know, no, we're starting way in the negatives to get to zero.
SPEAKER_00You know, this might be a little bit off that top particular topic, but I started thinking of George Floyd as you're speaking. And in my mind, he was not a controversial figure, although speaking to seeing reactions of other people and even some colleagues and things like that, turns out even his witness murder by a police officer charged and paid by him to serve and protect him by watching this murder filmed has somehow become controversial. But what strikes me pertaining to our conversation now is how this person has had had two children, two daughters, and now those girls are growing up without a father.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And hence it's a second another generation of a household without a male figure, not even talking about what type of person he was or whatever, because I don't know and we don't know. It shouldn't matter. Um and it should not matter. But now we have a generational deficit. Yeah. Again, not starting at zero. Right. So those people who say that, well, he should not have been doing anything wrong, and I know his case was never litigated because he never got to court. He never lived to get to court. So we don't know what he did. It was alleged. But for someone's family legacy to be abruptly ended over perhaps a $20 count counterfeit bill, I don't understand it. And I don't hear too many people speak about that.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00How the daughter's children might be impacted by having a parent who grew up without a father.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And without the lessons that a father would teach a young girl how to be a parent and things like that. You know, the things that we've benefited from learning from our parents.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00These are things that don't get discussed.
SPEAKER_02They do not.
SPEAKER_00You know.
SPEAKER_02They do not.
SPEAKER_00Sadly, they don't get discussed. And whenever, other than with me and you or close people or family or whatever, when I try to offer or initiate a conversation or offer my opinion about such things, people really don't want to talk about it because of the uh racial aspects, you know, because it might be scary. But to me, I'm one of the most uh the least intimidating people around, you know what I mean? I'm ready to talk about anything and I have an open mind, you know.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00But um I really can't get into too many conversations about such things. But again, in keeping with the way that you see the world, and one thing that I've learned from you that there are layers to different situations, and let's not just allow ourselves to be stuck on the outer layer. We can dig deeper.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and we should, yeah, and we should.
SPEAKER_00We don't need to accept the majority narrative all the time.
SPEAKER_02Exactly, exactly, and sometimes just a single narrative about you know, this single narrative. George George Floyd was a drug user, and you know, he's he's uh some type of thief. That's a single narrative that is put upon this man, not anything else, not you know what brought him here, what what else might have been going on? Who is he beyond this kind of point in time that we see him?
SPEAKER_00You know what I mean? What kind of life did he who raised him and where did he come from? And right, all these things, you know?
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. How close was he to becoming uh free of his addiction if he had one? Do you know what I mean? Where was he going to? All of these things when if you're if you're willing to just see someone in this in this click in time, you I think you just rob them of their humanity.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And um, so I think it is important to talk about this stuff.
SPEAKER_00But well that makes a lot of sense, and and I appreciate why now, you know, it was so heartfelt for you, you know.
SPEAKER_02Excuse me, did you just say did you just say that I made a lot of sense? Was that another in one conversation? Just let me put let me get the transcript from this and see how many times how many times what I meant to say was Yeah, no, but but this, you know how much I I what did I tell you the other day? Like, don't let anything happen. Don't let anything happen to you. Don't let anything happen to you.
SPEAKER_00I will kick you. Listen, not only did you say that, but Ange, after we had this lengthy conversation, you like hung up and then you called me back, and I'm like, did you mean to call me back? And you got really quiet, and you're like, just don't let anything happen to you. Like, what in the world? I started looking behind me, like, what is going on? But you said that don't let anything happen to you. You better not let anything happen to you.
SPEAKER_02And I meant it. I meant it.
SPEAKER_00Anyway, but um, but but yeah, this was an odd, uh, certainly unscripted, un unplanned podcast.
SPEAKER_02But we don't we don't ever script our our podcast. Yeah, we don't script our conversation. But this was this was this was outside of what we planned to talk about.
SPEAKER_00And you know, a and I think the time was needed. Yeah, we needed it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Thank you for giving me the um the opportunity to to to talk it through. It really helped me and um it was it was good to be to be heard. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00All right, and and I don't plan on going anywhere, God willing. All right, guys, thanks again for listening to another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
