Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
This is what the world needs now: two free-thinking “seasoned” Black women speaking their truth and inspiring others to do the same. Shaped by 45 years of friendship that began at the prestigious Brooklyn Technical High School through the Ivy League, medical school, marriages, divorces, triumphs, parenting queer children, life-threatening illness and many many amazing adventures. Each week, besties Leslie Osei-Tutu and Angella Fraser will push against boundaries in love, culture, careers, faith, politics and out-dated assumptions about women of a certain age. Remember, you’re never too old to change your mind…or your hair! (but more on that later :-)All views are our own and do not reflect the views of our institution/company. Information provided is not intended to serve as medical advice.
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
Some Questions Change Everything
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If you’ve tuned in to prior episodes, you already know that although Angella and Leslie have been best friends for over four decades, they actually approach concepts, solutions and questions, it turns out, quite differently. In this episode the ladies put their differences on display by answering a series of heady questions. The answers are often funny, at times poignant but they mostly reveal how a left brained person can fill in the puzzle piece of her right brained bestie, and vice versa.
Visit Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn website for behind-the-scenes extras.
Hey Edge. Hey Les, how are you?
SPEAKER_02I'm doing well.
SPEAKER_00I'm happy to be back. Me too. All right. Me too.
SPEAKER_04Another one. We're really doing this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we're doing it. It's getting done.
SPEAKER_04Man, it's getting done. It's great. I love that.
SPEAKER_02Thanks for tuning in again to another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn. I'm here with my bestie, and we're gonna do something a little different this episode.
SPEAKER_04We are going to ask questions.
SPEAKER_02All right, so if you've been with us for a couple of episodes, you may have heard us alluding to asking questions. And I've been a little resistant. I don't know why. I think I was just concerned about, you know, what my answers may reveal or what have you. So this whole idea came up because one of Angela was listening to one of our collective favorite radio shows called On Being with the host uh Krista Tippett. And during one of those episodes, Angela said to me that, why am I calling you Angela?
SPEAKER_04I don't know. Because I'm about to I'm like, who are you?
SPEAKER_02Okay, so Ange started telling me about how one episode was devoted to asking questions of a host. And she came to me and said, you know, Les, you and I think differently because you're left-brained and I'm right-brained. So I think it might be interesting asking each other questions and seeing how the answers come out and how it might be different.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and actually, even before this, I just think that ideas converge, right? You get all these ideas, they're they're kind of floating out there, they pass by you and you pay attention or you don't pay attention. And sometimes those ideas converge. And this whole questions thing and the power of questions has been something that I've been pondering for a long time. More recently, I was speaking to someone who works with me in theater, and we were just kind of conceptualizing some work that we would do together. And nothing laid out, just kind of really just um, I wouldn't even call it brainstorming. It was, it was more pitching a loose idea, and then um we each started talking about what could really come of these ideas. And I was talking to Leslie about it, and I could just see her face like, what are you talking about? And I'm like, Les, you're okay. We're not trying to solve anything right now, we're not trying to make anything like sequential. It's just we're just thinking something. I was just right, and Leslie was like, give me an example. There is no example to be had. We're just thinking, and at some point, things are gonna gel, and we're gonna say, yeah, that sounds it's almost like, you know, when you see a dog kind of circling and circling and circling, and then they finally get the the spot that they want. We both have dogs, so we see this all the time. It's kind of like that, and so it became this, oh my gosh, there we go again. Me being my right brain self and Leslie being her left brain self, and it was hilarious, it was just hilarious because she was really struggling. And then I'm like, oh, okay, maybe I need to make it something so Les would understand it. And then it's like, no, this is called ideation, it is not called solutioning, it's called ideation.
SPEAKER_00And I don't do ideation. Well, I take hold of the problem when it has gel, when there's a solution to be sought, and then I can go on the path to it.
SPEAKER_04Right. Okay, so I think we're gonna name this this podcast um some questions change everything.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. These questions, and I'm telling Leslie this again on air. I've told her this many times, but you know, she's gonna be who she is, and I'm gonna be who I am. But the the questions don't necessarily need specific answers, right?
SPEAKER_01Then why asked the question?
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_04This is my life right here.
SPEAKER_01Why are they wasting my time?
SPEAKER_04This is my life. So so I enjoy the journey, and Leslie wants to get to the destination. So you're gonna see that play out. Leslie has not seen um the the questions, and I haven't spent time kind of, you know, thinking them through at all. It's just as I heard interesting questions, I've written them down. Some of them came from the On Being podcast, maybe just one actually. And um the others I've just kind of heard and they caught my attention and I wrote them down. And so we're gonna go through them and enjoy this uh journey and destination with us. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Now, I also picked a couple of cards. I've not actually I looked at them to choose them. Cards from where? From a deck that I've had about some questions or whatever. I can't um I'm not sure if I know them or not, but they'll certainly be a surprise to you. So we'll see how it goes.
SPEAKER_04Right. So none of this is pre-planned. We're just gonna go with it, and um, I think that it will be quite interesting.
SPEAKER_00But wait, there are rules.
SPEAKER_04What are the rules? No judgment?
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm always gonna judge, so that's not a rule.
SPEAKER_02What's the rule? We only each of us can only skip a total of two questions.
SPEAKER_04I don't know if there's gonna be any skipping in this one.
SPEAKER_02No skipping on that one.
SPEAKER_04No, I think we're gonna go in, even if you don't have a long answer. We're going hard. We're going hard. We're going all. Okay no excuses, we're going in. You ready?
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_04This is like double dutch. You ready to jump in? You ready?
SPEAKER_02But because I have a little more difficulty with this, I'm gonna go first with the question. Sure, go, go, go. Choose the question first. Okay. From my little deck. You should see my face, folks. I'm looking a little afraid. She's very afraid.
SPEAKER_04She's very afraid, but always willing. Okay, go.
SPEAKER_02In what areas are you happy to be good enough?
SPEAKER_04Ooh, oh snap. In what areas am I happy to be good enough? So what I first focused on was good enough. And what does that mean? And in a way, I want to make sure that good enough does not mean mediocrity. It doesn't mean that it's kind of basic or it just means that sometimes my perfectionism becomes a a real problem, right? I've learned this way of thinking, this belief that I now have, which is that strengths overused become weaknesses, right? So if you have a strength and you think, okay, this is great, I am a good listener, or I'm really punctual, or whatever you you think are your strengths, you can consider that if you overuse them, right? If you listen to the point that you're spending all your time listening to other people and their problems, you're not getting your work done. That overuse becomes a weakness as an example, right? Or if you're punctual to the extreme, you start getting mad when other people are one minute late. That becomes a weakness, right? So the idea of a strength becoming a weakness. So what that question made me think about is um how much I've been um challenging myself to not be this perfectionist in what I create, in what I look like, and my weight, and all of these things, all of these ways that we judge each we judge each other, that I I I really am not going to kind of focus on perfection. So I that's kind of my pre my my my preamble. Um so the areas in which good enough is about my weight.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_04Right? That's one area that is that is good enough for me. Didn't we say no judgment? You're about to do what? You answer the question. You don't need to comment on my answer to the question. You answer the question. You're right. I'm passing the patent, I'm passing the talking stick to you now.
SPEAKER_02I take it back because you're right. My face was gunt about to call you a liar. But I'm not going to.
SPEAKER_04Don't do that. And you don't know what I'm working on, Les. You don't know what I'm working on.
SPEAKER_02You know darn well I know what you're gonna do, I hear about it on a regular. I know what you're working on before you start working on it, my dear. Answer your question.
SPEAKER_04Restate the question and answer it.
SPEAKER_02In what areas are you happy to be good enough? Well, for me, I struggle with that because I'm a type A personality and I too am a perfectionist. But what I'm noticing, and I think this is what this podcast is about, as I've gotten older, I'm now 60. You're 60? Stop it.
SPEAKER_04Oh my gosh, I can't hang with you. I'm too young to hang with you.
SPEAKER_02So what I've noticed is that more and more things in my life are becoming good enough that I don't have to be the, as you said, the superwoman or stress myself out for perfectionism, or things don't have to be just so a certain way, or whatever. Now, my husband might might not agree with me in that regard. But in all honesty, as I get older, good enough is becoming a lot more attractive to me.
SPEAKER_03Right. Okay.
SPEAKER_02All right.
SPEAKER_04All right, great. Okay, my first question is where does it hurt?
SPEAKER_02I'll go first on that one. Go first. And because I'm in the healthcare profession and because I'm a left brain, see, I I revert back to that left brain thinking, but I look at as look at it as a body question. And I would say where it hurts is wherever you would feel like body pain.
SPEAKER_00Or as I told you recently, I ran through the airport. Go, OJ, go! Right now my quads are hurting, quite literally.
SPEAKER_02For example, so I would just answer that question in a physical way as to what areas of my body are feeling pain right now.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I hurt for the world. I there there's uh and I and I have some kind of personal hurts, some emotional hurts that I am processing and getting better as the days and weeks and months go by. But I have so my hurts are are kind of more emotional. I've been feeling so much more like an empath, like I'm feeling the uh my my emotions are really on the surface and not in a bad way at all, but more in a God wants me to check in on what what my role is in the world.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so my the where I hurt is investigating that and and feeling some of the weight of what's going on and what I'm supposed to do about it.
SPEAKER_02All right, that's heavy, but I get it.
SPEAKER_04Okay, I can be heavy, right? You can allow thank you. Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_02All right, should I come up with one of my the next questions? All right, I'm clicking from the step. Oh my gosh, this question was designed for me. Is that mean it's not designed for me? I'm scared. Is there an art to loading the dishwasher? Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Absolutely yes. I would agree with that also. You would? I would.
SPEAKER_01I'm surprised about that.
SPEAKER_02I want things to be done well. Well, but the thing is, I would think that loading it in what I would look at as haphazardly would be good enough to get the dishes cleaned, in someone else's opinion. But in Leslie's organized world, now here's the thing: I encourage the men I live with to help around the house. So I try not to openly criticize the way that they do things.
SPEAKER_00So I am that person that after they load the dishwasher, when they're gone, I reload the dishwasher. Well, see, that's a lot of way.
SPEAKER_04That's a lot. Notice, guys, she said proper. She didn't say in another way, she said the proper way, as defined by Leslie. Right.
SPEAKER_02So, in answer to the question succinctly, yes, there is an art to loading the dishwasher.
SPEAKER_04I would say that I don't know if I would say there's an art to it. I would say that there is a way to load the dishwasher to optimize how the dishes get clean. But I am absolutely not, it's not something I go to bed worrying about. And I absolutely, unless there was a a dish that was horizontal, I'm absolutely not reloading the dishwasher for anybody. For anybody. Okay.
SPEAKER_00All right. Your question.
SPEAKER_04Oh my gosh, should I hit you with a okay. Are we a soul with a body or a body with a soul? Are we a soul with a body or a body with a soul?
SPEAKER_02Wow. That might be a little too out there for me. Come on now.
SPEAKER_04Think about it. And and why might it be too out there? What are you thinking about?
SPEAKER_02Well, I I actually think we're a soul with a body. Okay. You're not done.
SPEAKER_04Listen, let me tell you, let me tell you what she looks like. She looks like she's a cat. She looks like she's a cat, and she brought in a mouse and presented it to me and said, Ta-da! I'm done. My work here is done. Leslie, this is not a yes no.
SPEAKER_02So no, no, I understand. And I didn't say yes, no. I just said we're a soul with a body. That's true. Yeah, yeah. And and I'm judging you. And you're you are judging me.
SPEAKER_04I'm sorry. I take it back.
SPEAKER_02But damn, that's a judgment. I I don't think I can even verbalize um my thoughts about it. So I'll I'll present it to you. I've answered the question.
SPEAKER_04So, in in all transparency, this is a question. I don't know how I came to it. I don't even know if it's something that came in my head, and then I but it is something that kind of weaves in and out, um, has been weaving in and out over the last few months. It came to a head when my my aunt died, my mother's sister, and she was the last of um my mother and her four siblings, or three siblings rather. And are you a soul with a body or a body with a soul? I lean towards the fact that you're a soul with a body. Some of why I do that is is um that's how the Bible talks about, you know, that we live in a tent. And the tent, um, basically the tent is what dies, right? And there's another place that is for you. And so what is that? That must be your your your soul that is going to this other place. So this tent. Okay, so that's one kind of biblical way that I think about it. Yeah. You're gonna laugh at the other way I think about it. Okay. So I'm into sci-fi, not crazy, crazy into sci-fi, but I love uh Marvel. And I, you know, in my early 20s, I was really, really into comic books and was making sure I got the I was there when the next episode was available, the next um print was available. And so I thought about Pacific Rim. And so I don't know if you know Idris Alba was in it, you should know that. But anyway, basically it's um a science fiction movie about people going into these um huge robots to f to fight these monster, these huge monster things. And they go into these um big robots and they kind of mind meld their thinking, and the robot is what does the fighting, but the the the the the heart, the soul is inside. Or I think about what is that movie, Independence Day, remember with Will Smith, and they they catch one of the aliens and then they cut it open, and there's this little thing, but it's this big creature, but there's this little thing inside. So I think about these things that we carry around as our bodies, but the soul is the heart of it. So I um I lean more towards um we are a soul with a body than a body with a soul.
SPEAKER_02But that also reminds me of my thinking when I have loved ones who pass away. Their bodies are no longer with us, but I believe like their souls or their essences are with us all the time. Right. And what's also a little interesting about that is that while we as a family, we bury our dead traditionally, we don't cremate our dead, but we're not a family that goes to visit cemeteries to memorialize people because we as a family we do that in the home all the time. Right. We talk about our grandmother and grandparents and people. So I think that their souls live on way after the shell is gone. Did I redeem myself?
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah, very much. You're good. You're that was good.
SPEAKER_02All right, my question?
SPEAKER_04You go. Okay, so she clearly wasn't ready.
SPEAKER_02I was ready. I didn't want to look ahead of time. I didn't want to cheat. What are the best features of middle age?
SPEAKER_03Are we middle-aged? What is middle-aged?
SPEAKER_01Well, I don't know. I mean, that might be controversial, controversial, but we certainly are at 60. We're middle-aged. Okay. I I'd like to think middle-aged.
SPEAKER_04We have a hundred years ago. I used to used to say that I was in between because his grandfather was around, and so he'd say, Mommy, you're not old, you're in between. Um, so I am in between.
SPEAKER_02So But I'll I'll just say, and this is so easy for me. Yeah. The best part about middle-age is that I can be boldly who I want to be, and I can speak out without fear of embarrassment, or I don't care as much what people think of me personally, or how they may speak negatively about me.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02So I think I'm just more out there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um, Leslie and I talk about this all the time that we we would never want to go back to being in our 20s. Been there, been there, done that, not interested. We are, you know, we continually kind of work on ourselves. So we're so happy with where we are right now in our lives. Some of that comes from just knowing that some of the, oh my god, I couldn't do that. I could never do that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04We we did or or or we didn't do that. Or um, there's a lot more known now than unknown. Right.
SPEAKER_02I think the wealth of experience.
SPEAKER_04Yes, and stepping into our wisdom. Yeah. It's like, you know, it's it's a beautiful, beautiful place to be. So there we are.
SPEAKER_02That's the best part about middle-aged. Absolutely. Now the back pain.
SPEAKER_00But the question didn't say what's the worst part. So okay. Next question, you got it.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Are we being good ancestors? Ooh, mic drop.
SPEAKER_02Well, I'm gonna turn that question around and so as not to allow it to be a yes or no question.
SPEAKER_04Thank you, appreciate that.
SPEAKER_02Let's I'm going to answer it as how can we be our best ancestors?
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_02Is that okay?
SPEAKER_04I'm gonna read the question again and then you decide how to answer it.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_04Are we being good ancestors? Just answer it however you like.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Well, I would say that I'm being a good anc ancestor in a few ways. One, I think this podcast is indicative of being a good ancestor because it's putting a formal record down that uh family members in a hundred years can look back on and get to know who Leslie Poozer Oseitu was and some of the ways that she used to think.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02Um I don't know what kind of technology they would need to use to listen to the digital.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And sometimes that's what um that's what I've heard in the tech space, um, or people who are uh, you know, not big fans of everything being digitized, right?
SPEAKER_02Because you have to have access.
SPEAKER_04You have to have access, but anyway. They have to not be destroyed and all of that stuff. But I digress.
SPEAKER_02So by maintaining and doing this and uh co-hosting this podcast, I think that I'm leaving a timestamp for generations to come to look back on. The other way that's very similar, and I think that it helps in my being a good ancestor, is that I am very good at keeping up the family tree. And I think pictures, oh my gosh. And I've logged our family members all the way back to the late 1700s. And I push my other family members to participate and access those records so that they can learn the rich history. It is incredible the things that I've learned just from from looking at old records and ship documents and things like that. So I think that leads to uh being a good ancestor.
SPEAKER_04All right. Okay. Um, so I took the we in that question. Are we being good ancestors? I did not think of it as personal or you and I being the we. I thought of it as we in the black community, right? So more broadly that way. And even beyond that, are we those who are in positions of of power now, including us, because we have, you know, power in our own, in our own, um, in our own way, right? And are we being good ancestors? And one of the things that I love about questions is as we talked about before, I'm not necessarily seeking the answer to close that question and move on to another question. Okay, we've solved that, we're moving on. I like to live in questions, right? So are we being good ancestors? I'm gonna be thinking about that when we're talking about climate change. I'm gonna be thinking about that when I'm deciding whether I'm gonna go canvassing for politician that I think would be better for our future. I'm gonna be thinking about that when I'm deciding whether I'm gonna go for a walk or get on the treadmill, right? What am I, what is the example that I'm setting, and how am I making sure that I'm staying in the world as long as I can to affect the change that I want to see in the world, right? So I think that it's uh the question for me just just came up in a more broad way than are we being we are sometimes and we are not sometimes. And so it's more how can we um Mo betta? How can we Mobeta be good ancestors? Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I think we have time for one more question.
SPEAKER_04Okay, one of yours or one of mine? One of mine.
SPEAKER_02Okay, it's probably I looked at it in advance. Um I'll say, but it's a good way to end. It's a good way to end.
SPEAKER_04Leslie is so not a liar. If anyone says Leslie is a liar, they are liar. They are alien, they just don't know.
SPEAKER_02I I am a truth teller.
SPEAKER_04Yep.
SPEAKER_02What's the kindest thing anyone's done for you?
SPEAKER_03Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_02Isn't it a great way to end?
SPEAKER_03It's a great one. Oh, I'm getting emotional thinking of it. Me too.
SPEAKER_02Man, I tell you, now we're gonna end the show crying.
SPEAKER_00I gotta get it together.
SPEAKER_04I don't even know if there's a kindest. There's been so many kindnesses.
SPEAKER_02A lifetime of kindness, you know, even from strangers who are kind.
SPEAKER_04Isn't that like a beautiful thing to know? Isn't that a beautiful thing to experience?
SPEAKER_02We can't choose. And this doesn't even mean that our lives have been like all wonderful and great, but it's like I've had a lifetime of kindness. But here's what I'm thinking about while when I have that question. I know I'm thinking about my mom. Oh wow, oh boy, and the reason that I'm thinking about my mother when I think about one of the kindest things that anyone did for us is that I may have mentioned it in one of the earlier segments, how my mom was married with three children at a very young age. And one of the kindest things that she did for me and my siblings is just take care of us. And whether she actually knew that she was too immature or might have had some struggles to raise us, she sought help. You know, she kept us close with our grandparents and she didn't, you know, run away to be independent with us.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So she aligned ourselves, her, her included, because she was, you know, a teenager and young. Um, stayed connected to family who was able to step in when she might not have been, but she always tried. I mean, she never abandoned us, you know. I could never have done it at her age, but she did.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And she has been the one to instill the regard and love and importance of family, you know, in a world that was the nuclear family was becoming increasingly unpopular.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02Um, I gotta also say that the another kind thing that was done for me that was life-changing for me, is uh the support that I've had, and I mentioned this in a previous podcast, how every family member bent over backwards for me just so that I could realize my own little selfish goal. You know, yeah. Um, when I made the decision as a then single parent to go to medical school, you know, at 35, um everybody put their lives on hold and said, whatever you need us for, Les, we'll do. You know, and I just can't even imagine what my life would be if I didn't have that level of kindness in my life.
SPEAKER_04I'm just gonna say something that And then there's you. Yeah. So that's like a given. Um, but I I wanna just say something about you mentioned um the selfish goal. You are the most generous person that that I know. And I think I think you you say thank you and show gratitude to those people who helped you to um pursue this selfish dream that that that you had to become an anesthesiologist. You are so freaking generous with your time, with your money, with your experience, with your your knowledge. Um it is unbelievable. So when you said selfish, I wanted I wanted to clutch my pearls. What do you mean selfish? Oh my god. Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. Okay, all right, all right.
SPEAKER_02You have to answer the question. Okay, so I'm gonna answer the question.
SPEAKER_04Okay, all right, all right. So we're kind of switching now because I'm gonna go to it's not a silly thing. It's not a silly thing, but it was it was really kind and I so appreciated um my sister doing this for me. So earlier this year, I I decided that I wanted to take a trip for six weeks or so, five or six weeks. And I my children are out of grown and and out, or my youngest is in college, but we have a dog, and she's a beloved dog. She's 14. We had her, we got her when she was one, and my sister refers to my dog as her doggy niece. And so as I kind of planned out how I could orchestrate going away, the one thing that I had to figure out is where what I was gonna do with Topaz. Like where, and my sister so graciously agreed to care for my dog for all that time while I was away. And if she hadn't said yes to doing that, or she hadn't moved things out of the way so she could do that, because she wanted to go on trips too. Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Right, she has her own life.
SPEAKER_04She has her own life, and she made that sacrifice for me because she knew that it's something that I really wanted. And while I was away, my my dog needed to have a procedure done, and and it it wasn't easy, but she did that for me, and it allowed me to have um a nice, yeah, a nice peace journey. So I really appreciate that. And it's the first thing that came to mind with um that question. So thank you.
SPEAKER_02All right, I think we're at the end of this session. We're good. It was fun. It was fun.
SPEAKER_04I think it was good. I think we did, and I like being a little weird, you know that. Yeah, weird is all right with me.
SPEAKER_02I like you being weird too.
SPEAKER_04Well, thank you guys for listening to this episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn. See you next time.
