Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
This is what the world needs now: two free-thinking “seasoned” Black women speaking their truth and inspiring others to do the same. Shaped by 45 years of friendship that began at the prestigious Brooklyn Technical High School through the Ivy League, medical school, marriages, divorces, triumphs, parenting queer children, life-threatening illness and many many amazing adventures. Each week, besties Leslie Osei-Tutu and Angella Fraser will push against boundaries in love, culture, careers, faith, politics and out-dated assumptions about women of a certain age. Remember, you’re never too old to change your mind…or your hair! (but more on that later :-)All views are our own and do not reflect the views of our institution/company. Information provided is not intended to serve as medical advice.
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
Ageism & Othering in the Spotlight
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“Hmmm, what could you possibly talk about on a podcast about older bolder living?” Angella was in awe of Akron Watson’s talent when they worked together. Who wouldn’t be. He’s had roles on Empire, The Color Purple on Broadway, and so much more. But he’s a 40 yr old Black man so it just wasn’t obvious. When Akron said he wanted to discuss his experiences with ageism, The Besties were all in!
This week on Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn, we welcome multi award-winning actor & singer Akron Watson as we discuss his career, the effects of ageism and othering within the entertainment industry, and the ever-changing climate we're all learning to navigate from generation to generation.
Visit Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn website for behind-the-scenes extras.
Hey Les. Hey Ash. How are you? I'm doing well. Good. You look good. Why are you all dressed up? Where are you going?
SPEAKER_04Well, you know, I just had to represent because we have a special guest today. So I want my aluminum foil.
SPEAKER_03Wait, it looks like you're wearing lame.
SPEAKER_04Listen, I'm a child of the 60s, so I can do that. How is another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn, everybody?
SPEAKER_01Brooklyn.
SPEAKER_02It's so good to be back in the building. We have this amazing guest today. Um, I just want to really quick tell you how um I came to know Akron, Mr. Akron Watson. Um he was in a play, he played the role of Mr. in the North Carolina Theaters production of the color purple. And he was such a masterful, like beyond, beyond actor. You know, when you get mad at people like um, like um, what's her name? Sandy Duncan, I could never like after Roots, I just I didn't have any any, I was so mad at her, it never went away. For what she did, for what she did to Kissy. It never went away. Okay. She was too good an actor. So anyway, this did not happen with Akron. It did not happen, though he was that amazing in his role. He has such a sweet disposition, quiet, although I don't think he's really quiet. He seemed quiet. And but when he spoke, it was always um with uh levity and with um just uh uh a real maturity, um, because not everyone is, and um, and so I don't know how you came to find out that we had a podcast, but I know I gave you the card because I've been giving everybody a card. And um I think you went away, you went to lunch, and then you came back and you told me you're interested, and I kind of challenged you on um on a few things before we said yes. So I'm gonna stop it there because the rest will come up as we go into the interview. Um, and Akron, would you please um introduce yourself? Well, the audience a little bit about you.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Thank you for having me. Um my name is Akron, Lanier Watson, and um I love saying Lanier because I don't get a chance to say that that often.
SPEAKER_02We love hearing it. We love hearing it.
SPEAKER_00It's just it's just because you know it's my middle name and it's not really like my professional name. Like you said, I'm an actor. And so my professional name is Akron Watson, but here today I just am loving that I can say Lanier, because this is not really about acting, but it is kind of about acting. But I guess we'll get into that when we talk. But yeah, I'm an actor, a singer, and um I can tell you how I found out about your podcast. It's because you are fine. And so I was trying to figure out I was trying to figure out how to talk to you.
SPEAKER_03And so this is my goodness. And so I uh You mean whenever I hugged on you, that was you know how touchy-feely I am.
SPEAKER_02Yes, you are.
SPEAKER_00I just thought that you were really attractive, and so I was like, how can I talk to her? And so you had a car at your station, and so I looked at it and I was like, Oh, her friend is attractive too. But yeah, that's how I'm here.
SPEAKER_04And I'll tell you what what was uh made it a yes for me when we spoke, you had an interesting story to tell, one that I had not I had no experience with, so I thought it would be good to bring that to our audience. The other thing um that is um special about our guest today, Ange, that I just thought about, and it actually prompted me to wear my Mylar shirt.
SPEAKER_01He's our first male guest. Yes, I didn't even realize that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, you're such a winner, dynamic women, but um we've also had a dynamic young man here. So I'm appreciative. Thank you for taking time to be here because I know you're busy.
SPEAKER_00Yes, but I made it in. I'm so grateful to be here as the first male guest. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_04So can you tell me? Can I call you Lanier? Because you don't hear about that. Can I is it okay if I say Lanier, or do you want me to say act?
SPEAKER_00You can call me Lanier, yes.
SPEAKER_04Um tell me what you're an actor.
SPEAKER_00Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_04So, what prompted that? How did that begin?
SPEAKER_00Um, my dad and my uncle, who was um a character, and um and then my pastor, who was uh like my mentor, and then just various men in my life who were just doing it in one way or another. Um, and then watching Will Smith and Fresh Prince before he started slapping people, and it was I can't believe that. I can't believe it.
SPEAKER_02He slapped one guy and now he's slapping out his OMG, he's a slapped out anybody in Philly, and all of a sudden he he's he Here's my comedian right there.
SPEAKER_00Here's my comedian. They said if he slapped somebody at the Oscars, you know he slapped somebody in private. You know he slapped him.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I'm with you on that. That's true. I I would I would agree. I would agree.
SPEAKER_00If he stepped up and did it on camera, he must be doing it just, but anyways, and so that just it it made me feel so comfortable seeing those black men do that. My dad played um Scrooge in Christmas Carol, and so that was no way.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god, yeah, wow. Yeah, that was it.
SPEAKER_00That was it for me. Just yeah, and he played it as my uncle, so I got a chance to see him play my uncle at my church. My pastor directed me, and then it was a rap. Uh, but my pastor, yeah, my pastor was also a drama teacher, and so he kind of guided my career from like really young.
SPEAKER_04Oh, that's wonderful. Where did you grow up?
SPEAKER_00Dallas, Texas. I left Dallas in when I was 29. This is where my story gets unique because like I left Dallas at 29 and then moved to New York straight from Dallas because I was in a show. I was casting the show, and it was like a co-production, and it was this big commercial, musical. So I went from Dallas to New York and had an apartment, and my career took off like that.
SPEAKER_04I went from that's wonderful.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I went from being in the ensemble to being like on Broadway like six months, and then what and yeah, and then I booked my first lead or like well, really ensemble on Broadway like a year after that, and then I booked an even bigger lead a year after that, and my career was just like bow bah bah bah bow.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh, wow. How was that? Were you like mature enough to handle it? Do you think this is in your in your um reading of it, not your mother's, in your reading of it.
SPEAKER_00Oh that you were no, absolutely not. Absolutely not.
SPEAKER_04Wow, yeah, it must have been something being like a young 30-something, being living in New York City from Dallas, which is different in itself. It was and doing what you do with the adoration of the crowd and all of that stuff. Man, that must be fascinating. And the groupies in life groupies and stuff, yeah.
SPEAKER_00It was yeah, it was groupies on groupies, which was interesting because they were nerds, because it's theater, you know, and so like that. It was that but like also it's feeling like my whole life, I had only made a certain amount of money, so my financial situation completely changed. And and being being what I realized now was older. I didn't realize it at the time, but 30 honestly in my industry is older. And and I didn't realize that I should have been making that money way, way back. And so that sort of like threw me too.
SPEAKER_02That's um that's amazing. And then, so you lived in New York for how long?
SPEAKER_00I've been here since I'm here now, I've been here since uh 2014.
SPEAKER_02Okay, okay. Oh, you're still here in New York. Um, okay. You so but you're visiting Dallas now, because I know I am.
SPEAKER_00I'm visiting mom. Um, I'm trying to get her to move up here because the career's still going well, why not? But like um I just want to have a change of scenery.
SPEAKER_04Right, right. So, Lanier, when we spoke, you mentioned again, I'm gonna say I'm bringing this back. You said something about ageism, and you mentioned it a little while ago as well, about how age, how your career was affected by age. Now, as I see you, you're this young person who sh, you know, I would think is in the you know, ripe time for stardom in the theater world or the television world or whatever. But tell me about that. That's not necessarily the case.
SPEAKER_00I think that um, as I just try to really dig into what it could be, like when you talk about these schisms, they kind of blur the lines, they blur because it really is about a person's like personal feelings about you. And a lot of times I think with ageism, we don't talk about it. We don't talk about like, oh, we don't want to include this person going to the party or getting invited to this or that because of his age. And so I think, or their age, like socially, I think that is when it really started to like dawn on me. But because my life is spent so much with my career, like I am constantly just like in a theater. I'm constantly an artist. As the new artists come in, um, or I get you know throughout thrust into this group of young artists, I'm like, oh, I'm not invited to the party. Well, you know, like these very important people are at the party. This this very important moment is happening, and like socially, like I'm affected by this in a weird way. This is new. And um, it started at the height of my career. Also, it's you know, once I I say the height, but like who knows, right? It's just uh exactly when I got to a certain height, um, everyone in the ensemble was good, and so that caused them to sort of like other me. You know, you're already the lead and you're older than us. Yeah, and so I call it getting othered. Um, but that social aspect, I think in my industry, I can tell you a few stories where it really impacted me professionally. And please, please tell. Long story long.
SPEAKER_04You're in the right place. This is Ange. She makes a long story, a novel.
SPEAKER_02Wait, I call it going off on a tributary, and then I just come back around. I come back.
SPEAKER_00I just feel it affected me so much. So I'll say this that um I I almost got fired, and then um the person uh went even further. And so I ended up going to there's an organization for like discrimination. I had to go to that organization as a state organization and be like, I feel like I'm being discriminated against. Wow. Um, in order to get it to stop. I had to type this long letter and give all these different in instances where this person had discriminated on me because of my age. Wow.
SPEAKER_04And this person was in a position to hire you for you to keep your your position.
SPEAKER_00It it what was happening was they were forming a group of people that was getting ever bigger because of their because of their shared commonalities. They were forming a group of people that could like part of that. Well, it it started as like the group of people just included, you know, cast members, then it was people in management, then it was people in casting, and there was a screen wait, what's happening? You know what I'm saying? And and it all came back to you like, uh, you're just a little bit older than us, so we don't know if you agree with our politics, you know.
SPEAKER_02And it's like how about asking or just I mean, that's a lot to make assumptions about, and I'm having to assume too.
SPEAKER_00There's my there's my own set of assumptions that I have to assume. Sure. I'm just not in on the party.
SPEAKER_02Wow. Wow. That's so interesting. Um that at your age, this is what's happening. It's kind of like um you're in an you're in an in-between. It is ageism, so I don't want to discount that that's in fact what it is. Um, but it's at this in-between age. This is what my my son used to say, because um I used to live with one of my parents. Um, and so my son would say that I'm in between. Um, mom, you're not old, you're in between, is what he used to say. So um so you're in this in-between space and you're you're already starting to feel it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I it made me it opened my eyes because I don't I didn't see it until I got you know higher and older.
SPEAKER_02Right, right.
SPEAKER_00And it makes me curious too, like, oh, what if one of those factors was missing, would I still notice it?
SPEAKER_02But oh wow. I look back there's a lot to unpack there. Hold on. Okay. Hold on. Okay. So because you know, um race is something that is a a good um it's it's a good um framing for isms, right? Because we all know it so well, right? We all know the the issues around race. So I'm gonna use that analogy. Um in in talking about ageism here and what you just said about whether you would have noticed that age was an issue, right? It's almost like if you were in the in, if you were in the in crowd, um you you wouldn't have noticed, right? Because you can be in the in crowd and notice that they treat other people differently. But I think what I heard you say is that if you were in the inn, um, if you were in the in, you don't know that you would have noticed that there are people who were on the outs because of ageism. Is that is that right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because it it's like a catalyst. It's like a a gate to me, ageism is like a gateway drug because it's so so so so so so so accepted and just like so just like very casual. And that sort of like ism, it's just it's hard to track. No, you know, people will lose track of it and they'll be like, I don't know why I don't like this person. It's like because you wrote them off six weeks ago. A long time ago.
SPEAKER_02It's like they've become a caricature to these people and not not an individual.
SPEAKER_00I think so. And where it starts, I think, in our culture is what kind of fascinates me about it now because it's like, well, when did that become a thing? And why does my generation and I'm talking about me and my friends and stuff, why do we feel so in between? You know, my pastor used to talk to me a lot about I'm gonna bring up my pastor a lot because as I have like matured, it's like, oh, if this dude was so right, this dude was so right about all these things. And but I can't imagine what people might have might be experiencing if they didn't have that mentorship.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00And there's there's a generation, especially in my industry, and I think we all know it and talk about it, they just the mentorship is missing. The mentorship is like the internet or TikTok or whatever.
SPEAKER_04I don't want to get like that one-to-one mentorship. So, what are some of the things that your experience in your relationship with your pastor has helped you in this regard?
SPEAKER_00It helps me to appreciate, I think, people of wisdom, whoever they may be and however they may be.
SPEAKER_02That's right there. That's right there. Okay, keep going. I'll come back to that.
SPEAKER_00Um and with that just, I'm sorry, I'm laughing because it just seems so simple, right? Like if somebody knows something that you don't know, you better go ask them.
SPEAKER_04Right. You know, but that is you would think it's simple, but we all know from experience that it's really not. There are many reasons why we don't seek out knowledge and wisdom whether we have it or not. You know, there are there's there's a lot there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and well, I think that um I think it's wisdom that you gain when you start recognizing it, it's like game recognizing game.
SPEAKER_04It's you you it's not just information, it's wisdom. Right, it's not philosophical wisdom.
SPEAKER_02Exactly, exactly. Wow, wow, man, you are too deep. Okay, not too deep at all. No, I'm I'm totally joking because we love it. Leslie and I, deep is our middle name, we're we're just um um very interested in in peeling back the layers of stuff. We're we're not surface people, so um feel free to go as as as deep as you would like into whatever whatever topic. So I just had a um a question.
SPEAKER_04The age-related discrimination that I'm used to in the uh entertainment field is generally gender-based women over 50, let's say. And it's this now revolution with um Jane Fonder and um, you know, the those buddy older women buddy shows that are coming out, a couple of them now, but for historically, it's been once you hit 45 or 50 as a woman in Hollywood, um, and we're not even talking about race. Um that's when you start seeing the roles um going away for things like that. But you're saying that it's not necessarily gender-based, well, certainly not in your experience.
SPEAKER_00So it's across the board. I think that it's across the board, and I I think that you know it's it's a lack of like it's it's sort of gatekeeping, you know, it's just like it seems like gatekeeping that as casting gets younger, as directors get younger, etc., they they're sort of like holding the gate open for, you know, their folks and and and othering everybody else.
SPEAKER_04And that's so weird to me. I I just think about the classical actors, you know, or the people who are of my generation. I'm thinking of Denzel who can show up on the big screen and in theater, you know. I would think that for someone with his chops who can um come on stage and play Macbeth, you know. It's just um I would think that they would appreciate that level of wisdom and star power. Who's the they, Les? Who is the they that are? Talking about the casting people or the directors or the the backers, actually, the financial people.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think sorry, go ahead, no, you you go, please.
SPEAKER_02I was just gonna say that in any in any ism, they're always gonna let some people in. Some people always are allowed. Yeah. Tokens. Just you know, not most people, and they use those people to say, oh, see, we're not like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_00We're only letting a few people in. Well, I was just gonna say that like um the this the far as the day, it's like how who controls the day. And I think that the dollar controls the day, but I think that the dollars is misappropriated. I I think that if you target a younger audience, of course, younger people are going to be. But at some point that trend doesn't hold up to like what's happening, honestly. You know, I think that now we're reinforcing it and we're reinforcing we're we're reinforcing it. I'm I'm just saying wrong. We're reinforcing it in like all different mediums to where like even television and film is going younger and younger and younger. But it's not a lack of production, I don't think. You know, when I think about writers and who could be writing the best, whatever, I'm like, they're all probably over a certain age because they have the most experience, they have the most wisdom, right?
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Um, but then you get you get fluff content because they're feeding a younger audience and using younger writers, and sometimes they're influencing their older writers to write younger. You know, you have 30-year-olds writing high school shows, like I don't you can just you can just write about your friends while you're writing about yeah, back in the day.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, back in the day yesterday. What are you doing?
SPEAKER_00What are you doing? And and then, but they're praying, it seems like they're preying on this younger audience like, oh, these are the people who will pay our bills.
SPEAKER_04Right. And in many cases, that's correct, because these are the people who have a heavy presence in TikTok, in social other social media, so there's the advertising, and then millennials have money now. Whereas when I was a millennial, I drove a hoopty with a uh a milk crate holding up the driver's seat in the back.
SPEAKER_03She sure did.
SPEAKER_04So it's a different age.
SPEAKER_02Wait, wait, this is when five dollars you had a five dollar bill, that's how much gas you got. Five dollars worth of gas. Leslie had a uh a baby blue Honda Accord hoop de and had a blue crate in the back to keep the back of the car.
SPEAKER_04Right back now when it stayed up, it was broken, so it's over there. Let's time while I'm driving, I'm falling back.
SPEAKER_03You'd have to ask a martin. But just stick your feet out.
SPEAKER_02Well, this is uh I it's it's it's hard for me to um absorb this as not as truth. It's not it, there's no, there's no kind of uh it's not that level. It is now kind of framing the way that I consume media.
SPEAKER_04I was just gonna be I was just gonna say because now I'm gonna view things through a different lens, and I'm gonna have my eye on it, just like with your new red car, you see a lot more red cars. You know, it's gonna tell that car still meeting.
SPEAKER_02I just I just got a new car, right?
SPEAKER_00Oh, congratulations.
SPEAKER_02Let me tell you. It's the color of my lipstick, it's brighter than that.
SPEAKER_00It sounds like you don't like it though. Why I'm right.
SPEAKER_02Who me or Leslie?
SPEAKER_00It sounds like Leslie doesn't like it.
SPEAKER_04Leslie's a hater. I I still can't wrap my mind around it. Leslie's a hater. Okay. I can't wrap my mind around it. And you won't either.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, it matches her hair and her skin too.
SPEAKER_04Let me let me tell you.
SPEAKER_02It doesn't match her skin tone.
SPEAKER_05It's got she's got red in it.
SPEAKER_02It is a beautiful charger. Okay. You know Dodge Charger. Dodge charger. Dodge charger.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you know, Bowen Luke Duke.
SPEAKER_02This is not the only C you need to you need to change that prism. Expand my you need to change the you need to change the prism. That's the only that's the only way that you know those cards. That's not the only all right. How about the Almond brothers?
SPEAKER_00I think I think that red looks good, specifically on on brown skin, because we have red undertones. And Angela most definitely has red undertones.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. And and and what about the charger? Let's go back to the charger, not the color. What about the charger?
SPEAKER_00Oh, well, I mean, I think it's fast and you should be careful. And the police like to stop black people in charger. So just that's what my my thinking is.
SPEAKER_02I know. I know. I'm hoping I'm hoping that my age will will be in my favor.
SPEAKER_00They don't seem to care sometimes. Now they don't discriminate there. They it seems they don't discriminate.
SPEAKER_04No ageism there.
SPEAKER_00No ageism with racism. It's you just black.
SPEAKER_04All right, I have another question. Go. You seem like you you are uh an aware person and you seem like you have some sensitivity also, but have you thought about any solutions or any things that you can do? I mean, as a talented, well-known actor, you likely have a very long career ahead of you, God willing. What things can you? And you won't be getting any younger. You know, so what kind of things are you thinking about in terms of solutions? Because and you probably are not the only one thinking about this.
SPEAKER_00I don't think so. I don't think that I am. I think that I want to be the loudest voice because I think that as we move forward and we look at certain decisions that are being made politically and just like artistically, and you know, of course, entertainment and all that stuff affects me, but like even some like CEOs and stuff are being chosen based on age. It's yeah, it's this weird obsession we have with someone either being too young or just a little bit older, whatever, um, instead of making the right choice. So I just want to be a really loud voice in terms of someone being right because they're right, um, whatever that means. So um also just in terms of like a story being right, uh, a story being interesting, a story being powerful, and then not having to be super marketable. And that's something I feel like I can control. I can control what I write, I can control what I say, what I do in my social circles. I particularly don't try to other people. Um, and that's anybody. Yeah. Um, and I think that's hard for people to do, first of all. And so it's something I really, really, really work at. Um, and I just want to be a really loud voice fan so that you don't see what's coming from me based on who I am, but it's also what I appreciate and what I find to be like. Wow.
SPEAKER_02That's why he's on our podcast last.
SPEAKER_04It also sounds like something a mother would be so proud of.
SPEAKER_02That's right.
SPEAKER_04You know, it's like I raised him well. You know, that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00She did. She's still around, so she did, she did, she did. She loved it.
SPEAKER_02That's awesome. I love that. I um I I think that oftentimes people forget that change happens on an individual level. They, you know, they they see sometimes things change, and it looks like there's always been um this groundswell of um of activity to make this change happen, but it's it starts with one person. It starts with one person making a decision around that. And I think that um, you know, now that your eyes are open to what's going on, um, you you said it right that that you can um as an individual make decisions um that will be more in line with your values around this. Um I I wanted to ask you about whether um you think some of the I I wouldn't call it othering, but some of the ways that they um segregate you from others is because of your um your uh what's the word? Um your stature in the industry. Right?
SPEAKER_00That's it. Um I mean I think that's it's hard again, like it's just hard to track. I wouldn't really know. Um I try to I try to look at the people who are segregated from me by choice and do what investigating I can. And then in the fight to be inclusive and not included, but just to be inclusive, um I learn what I can, you know. Um and most of the time, most of the time I find that age just gets written off. It just gets written off. It's just like, oh, it just is what it is, you know.
SPEAKER_02It's just like nothing, nothing to see here, nothing to see. Nothing to see.
SPEAKER_00It's just yeah, it's it's an age-old problem, blah blah blah.
SPEAKER_02Right. Especially sometimes I feel like and I'm going off on a on a little tangent, a little tributary here, but um there's so much heaviness in the world, and I think sometimes people just want to find spaces where things are just easy, you know. Um just I just want to be with people who I don't have to be concerned about whether they're going to treat me well, whether they're going to respect me, whether they're going to honor honor my my my values, and it's it's sometimes just easier to um stay in your in your circle, which I think is healthy sometimes, but it's not the way to kind of live. But again, I'm constantly thinking about as a as a black woman, how does that relate to how things play out in terms of our race, you know? And um uh that that's what I use to whenever we talk about othering or segregation, um, it more broadly, or um or inclusivity, um, I tie it back to, well, how does it feel being on this end or that end as a black person? Um, you know, so how do I um be more mindful of how I treat others who may, I don't know, um, what the difference may be that that comes up. Um, maybe younger, you know, there's ageism probably in the other direction too. We have a president who's who's running for office who's how how old is he?
SPEAKER_00You know, older than God.
SPEAKER_02Uh you you know what I mean? I I mean, is it because he doesn't, or there's a thought that younger people could not do as as good a job as as he can because it's all about um uh experience. Um, you know, all not all experience is good experience, you know. Um but anyway, it's uh it's it's a really uh something that uh I I think um we should all investigate on how ageism shows up. Um and when you said that this is the topic, I'm like, yes, of course. We're gonna, yes, yeah, you're on, you're on.
SPEAKER_00So I will say that like I just wanted to say this last thing that what what started me down the path was realizing that Bernie Sanders was not in the runnings anymore at some point for president because he was too old, and people thought that he was old. And when Trump I remember you know what I mean, it was like him and Hillary, and like people were trying to figure it out, and his age became an and you know, now Joseph Biden is president, and so like we kind of see the repercussions of like Donald Trump is running, you know, it's like these guys are the same age, you know, they're the same age, they're two or two years apart.
SPEAKER_02That's the same age, but but Donald's got more hair in the front, and so no, he's got longer hair in the front, not necessarily just as many strands, probably, just shorter and longer, just longer so it can a nice flap, a nice, a nice, a nice, uh, a nice comb over.
SPEAKER_00America likes blonde and not silver. Is that blonde? It's kind of a little orangey.
SPEAKER_02It's a little orangey. I want to hear, did I see that there was anime? Is that the right?
SPEAKER_04Is that the right genre of ah yeah, you did. I'm so glad that you asked that. Is that did did I see it right?
SPEAKER_00Anime, yes, absolutely. There's a place called Funny Shin in my hometown of Dallas, and they make all sorts of English dubs and subs for anime, cartoons, basically. And I got into that, I got into that industry from the theater. There turned out to not be any black men in Dallas in the anime world, and they were making a Brazilian show.
SPEAKER_02And ah, Brazilian Japanese. Oh wow. Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00And so the Brazilians were dark enough where they needed uh a bunch of black folks, and so they had found all women and not any men. Um, and so I kind of came in and played the only gangster in the show.
SPEAKER_03Um I was like You can't get away from it.
SPEAKER_00I can't get away.
SPEAKER_03You play any good guys, they keep pulling you back in. No, you were the Tom Robinson once.
SPEAKER_00I played Tom Robinson in the good. Oh, my God. Yeah. He's a good guy.
SPEAKER_04He's a good guy. And we're we're running on to the end of our segment, but do you have any other questions? Any other issues you want to bring up? Because there's so many, obviously.
SPEAKER_02Well, I wanna um I wanna really ask about your role as Mr.
SPEAKER_04And um old bang up job you did, I urge.
SPEAKER_02What what do you draw from?
SPEAKER_00Like, where it was interesting, it was interesting in that particular cast since we were just talking about ages of the life. I was I originally played Bobby in the Broadway show. And so I was 30 at the time and booked Bobby, and Bobby's like the young guy in the show. Um, you don't really know how old he is, but if you remember, at the end when when Seely has gone through everything with Mr. and she sings this big powerful song, and then this young plumber comes out with sweat on his chest, and you know giving her the look. Oh my god, giving her the look and like staring at a book live on staying nobody still wearing it. Um and then he picks up his tools and he leaves. Well, I created that that role on Broadway, and then I got a chance to see the guy play Mr. His name was Isaiah Johnson, who I found out was like two years older than me at the time. But um, he was just slaying it as Mr. every single night against Cynthia Revo and Daniel, Daniel Brooks, and Jennifer Hudson. And so that was inspiration. And of course, Danny Glover was inspiration from the original. But also my mentorship just rang me up as soon as they saw I was playing it and was like, so don't don't excuse my language, don't bullshit yourself. And and they were real with me. They said, you know, the and these are again, these are older black people, you know, and they were like, it's not about him beating those women.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00Somebody told him that he had a small penis, and he is making up for it every single day.
SPEAKER_04You took that thought and said, Okay. I don't know what that means.
SPEAKER_02I have I have a big penis. I have a big whip. I have a big whip and a little penis. Okay. So, but here's what, and and I attribute this to you because I didn't have this feeling about any other, whether it was the movie or any any other time of the many times I've seen um the depiction of, you know, the the book, where I saw Mr.'s humanity as much as I saw in your portrayal of the character. Um, I, and maybe it's because I, you know, I had the opportunity to see you perform every night and during rehearsals and so on. But there were so many people. Well, well, no, because we didn't really start connecting until um probably a few shows in to um the you know the performances at the theater. But this these are the things that I mentioned that I that I noticed that made me start to believe that there was um there was another side to him because it it did not come from anything he said or any way that he that was kind of dominant in in the role. But what I saw um Akron doing um is um how how you looked away, what you looked like when you turned your head away from, you know, there was one point where you were um going to either strike Nettie or um or Celia, I forget which one, because you swung at both of them. Um, and when you turned your head, um, and I saw you in character, I didn't see you as as Akron, but I saw that you were hurting yourself by doing that. Like it affected you when you allowed that. Yeah, I'm telling you, this guy is listening. I'm telling you. And um some of the more obvious things when um when Buster came out and he was kind of doing his jabs, when you when you kind of ducked, um, even though he was some distance away from you, just little things that um your voice when you came out and uh it's gonna make me cry, really. Um I'm sorry, I don't know where this is coming from, but um you know I was really touched by your by your acting and what it it what it reminded me of is is what redemption is. You know what I mean? How um how um people when they're taken out of the the treadmill, the rat race, the the template, the script, the this is how I'm supposed to be, how um like fundamental forever change can happen. And that's what that's why that's why I'm getting so emotional is because that is what I saw and saw and saw. You you really like blew me away.
SPEAKER_00Blew me away. I just I think I I really thank my creator. I get an opportunity to be uh like a vessel for some of the men that I have known because they are constantly calling and pouring into me either verbally or you know from the from the other either. And like I don't feel like someone like Mr. is alone in the world. And so there's no reason to not play him as a human.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_00And I know for a fact in that time period men were just different. And so he was trying to be a newer version of his father, and then trying to teach his son to be a newer version of him.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_00And he was blessed, honestly, to be able to come back in that last scene and say, look, we've lived a whole life. I've really, really, really, really, really, really, really messed up, but I know that. And I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And that's all the work. Like it's it seems like all the work. To get to that point in life and in that show.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's to be like, I have done so many messed up things. And honestly, I'm trying to encourage myself to get there sooner. I'm trying to get there now.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. That's true repentance. Yeah. You know, that's what the Bible talks about. Sincere repentance.
SPEAKER_00That that wisdom I wanted to, I, you know, and I know that I can know the future, but if there was one thing I could make it be a time machine, I'm gonna go forward and figure out where I mess up, what I do, Lord help me. Help me, though, to not be this man.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So yeah. You know, I'd look up and see my father's and and father's fathers and his father in the audience. I think I just started looking at them. I was like, no, I see, I see old Mr. looking at me like, look at you, you dumb. You know, and that and then you and then and then you try to do the thing that he didn't do, but you end up hitting her anyway. You end up hitting her anyway. And it and so that's what makes you turn away and be like, God dog, I said I said I wouldn't do this.
SPEAKER_02Right. That that is what that is what you that's what that face was. That was the unspoken thing that I saw you do every night. It's like, you know, damn it. I just I said I wasn't gonna do that. You know, the struggle, the human struggle.
SPEAKER_00The human struggle, not the not the not the bad guy struggle, the human struggle, but the human struggle.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that we all have on some level. Thank god I ain't hitting people though. Yeah, not yet. Yet, yet, yet, yet. So, um Akron, can you um Anch, we're gonna need to close. I'm sorry. I know, I know.
SPEAKER_02Can you tell our guests how they can um follow you, keep in touch with you?
SPEAKER_04Um you know, and we're also gonna put that in our notes too. So we're gonna give them good uh information on how to reach you.
SPEAKER_00It's just at Akron Watson everywhere. At Akron Watson everywhere.
SPEAKER_02Wherever there is a where, that's where you are.
SPEAKER_00Wherever there is aware, it's just at Akron Watson.
SPEAKER_02Got it. Awesome. Got it, got it. Awesome. We thank you so much for the next one. What's next for you? May I ask?
SPEAKER_00I'm doing a show called Grace. I'm developing a new musical called Grace. We're gonna do it in Orlando first and then do it off Broadway. And it's coming. It's just about a black family sitting down their dinner, and what ensues from there?
SPEAKER_04Oh wow. When does it open?
SPEAKER_00Uh, we open in Florida probably next season. I'm just I'm going to Orlando now, first of all, to get away from New York. And secondly, we can do just work on some new music. We're gonna sing some of the music, meet some castmates. We probably won't go up for another year. We'll have two more of these. That's how the industry works. We'll have two more of these workshops, three-week workshops before we open.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Okay. Well, beautiful. I'll be looking at it. Please um Akron Watson. Keep us updated on what's going on. You're you're you're in the bestie, in the bestie gang now.
SPEAKER_00I'm so excited to possibly take one of the besties on the date.
SPEAKER_02See, that's that's another thing that um we may have you back because we want to talk about older women, younger men. We'll have you back. We'll have you back for sure. Thank you. Thank you so much. See you later. All right, for you.
SPEAKER_04This was another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn. Peace out. Bye, guys.
SPEAKER_00Bye.
