Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
This is what the world needs now: two free-thinking “seasoned” Black women speaking their truth and inspiring others to do the same. Shaped by 45 years of friendship that began at the prestigious Brooklyn Technical High School through the Ivy League, medical school, marriages, divorces, triumphs, parenting queer children, life-threatening illness and many many amazing adventures. Each week, besties Leslie Osei-Tutu and Angella Fraser will push against boundaries in love, culture, careers, faith, politics and out-dated assumptions about women of a certain age. Remember, you’re never too old to change your mind…or your hair! (but more on that later :-)All views are our own and do not reflect the views of our institution/company. Information provided is not intended to serve as medical advice.
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
Ep37 S4/1 Satin Bonnets & Respectability Politics
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It started out innocently enough - Leslie called Angie to talk about what she called a “pet peeve”. Why do some Black women wear satin sleep bonnets outside the house?
In this episode you’ll hear the besties discuss this seemingly superficial issue and watch it turn into a more serious conversation about respectability politics. Did Dr Martin Luther King Jr and his fellow marchers get any less violent reactions from police than did The Black Panthers? Should being seen as “respectable” continue to be the expectation of Black & brown people?
The Besties go all the way in - not always agreeing but always respectable.
Bonnet Cheerleading Video Courtesy of @cheerlebridee tiktok
Respectability Politics (according to Wikipedia): a political strategy wherein members of a marginalized community will consciously abandon controversial aspects of their cultural-political identity as a method of assimilating, achieving social mobility, and gaining the respect of the majority culture. As a sociological term, it is often pejorative, typically used in a manner critical of the ideology.
Visit Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn website for behind-the-scenes extras.
I have what I think you'd call a pet peeve. But see, but but knowing you, you're gonna tell me about myself.
SPEAKER_02So what makes you say that?
SPEAKER_03Because you always do. You're like, but let's consider this. And you're not thinking about this. And then finally, I'm like, damn, I'm sorry I even said this.
SPEAKER_00No, I think, yeah, you're sorry you said it to me. To you, exactly. I should have kept that myself. Listen, I'm just trying to make you a better person. That's all I'm doing.
SPEAKER_03Stretch you. So, guys, welcome to another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn. Brooklyn. Okay. Okay, I'll stop. I gotta tell you what it is, my pet peeve. But it bothers me, and I'm just being transparent. So maybe we can explore why. So I was looking out um, you know, my my window driving um the other day, and I saw these this um African American uh woman with her child. No, it was a teenage girl, and they both had on those satin sleek bonnets. Keep going. And and I looked and I'm like, why? I gotta wear that outside to the store. And then you called me. And then I called you, and I'm like, what's your opinion about such and such? Should we be wearing this stuff outside? Like, what do you think about it? I mean, because we all have them. I acknowledge that there's a good reason to put a satin scarf or covering on your hair when you sleep or if you're in the house, because our scare hair can be delicate.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And we, you know, whatever.
SPEAKER_00It's protecting you're saying that for me, right?
SPEAKER_03I'm saying that exactly so you don't know. Just in case you don't know. What you know about hair anyway. So listen, I'm a proponent of the Satin Hair Bonnet Club. I own several. Yes. But I ain't wearing it outside. I I don't think that it's appropriate.
SPEAKER_00Right. And then you asked me, you said, um, you see my peanuts right there? I love me some peanuts. But I'm a peanut snob, it's not just any old peanuts, it's it's gotta be in the shell. Yeah, anyway, Virginia peanuts anyway. Like, all right, so so um, listen, we're all on a journey, right? And I haven't arrived anywhere yet. Um, on the journey myself.
SPEAKER_03I just made you wear uh your bonnet on your journey. Do you gotta? Do you gotta? You can't take the bonnet off.
SPEAKER_00Do you remember that guy who did the who did the cheerleader thing about the bonnet? Oh my god. No, I watched it about a million times. I I showed it to you, but you don't remember because you watched it once. I watched it literally hundreds of times, I'm sure. Um, because it he just he just gave me so much energy.
SPEAKER_03Um so what's your opinion about us wearing these bonnets, sad bonnets out in the street?
SPEAKER_00Okay, so and you know it's not only bonnets, but my initial reaction is wouldn't be my choice, but actually what you asked me is do you think do you think that this is um this is uh um I said is this respectability politics? Respectability politics, and I kind of I kind of it's definitely kind of because here's the thing, right? Yeah, uh what you're actually saying is you wouldn't do it, which is fine. I think that's where it stops. When you say they shouldn't, and I could do the five whys with you right now. Let's do it on the spot. Five whys, let's go. Let's go. Let's go right now. Okay, okay. Tell me the tell me the thing. You think you think that they should not wear that out. So I'm gonna ask you why.
SPEAKER_03Because they are indoor accoutrements and not outdoor accoutrements.
SPEAKER_00Why are they indoor and not outdoor?
SPEAKER_03I think it's lazy. I I I mean, we all know that there is I mean, indoor wear, you know, sleepwear or housewear.
SPEAKER_00So you think wearing something that's meant for inside, outside is lazy? I think it is lazy. It's okay. It's slack. Okay, short, short answers. Short answers, why do you think it's slack?
SPEAKER_03It's an indication of not caring about what the way one presents themselves in public.
SPEAKER_00And why do you think it's an indication of someone not caring about themselves?
SPEAKER_03Because if they cared about themselves more, they would be more aware of how it looks to wear inside sleepwear or homeware or housewares. It's like wearing those bedroom slippers, you know, okay.
SPEAKER_00Short answers, short answers because that's just something else. You're just something else. So you said it was because they should be more aware of, and I think what you wanted to end that with is they should be more aware of how other people see them.
SPEAKER_03I would phrase it as how they present themselves in public to other people, because obviously.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes, right. So you think they shouldn't wear those satin caps because of how other people will judge them.
SPEAKER_03That's part of it. That's part of it. But there's also another part of it, Ange, and this is real, that we all know that when just putting on lipstick, or as you said in another podcast episode, when you put on heels to vacuum, there's a different way that you feel. And I think that people, when we walk around, when I I'll speak for myself, when I walk around in sweats or yoga pants and slippers, I feel differently than if I were to put on some other casual wear. And I'm not saying people need to get dressed up to go to their car or go to the supermarket, but I, for one, and my uh our viewers know, I have a lot of head turbans and things that I can put on my head when I don't want to wear my hair out or a different look or whatever. So it's not a matter of don't cover your hair. You gotta do your hair when you go out. I just think that it's lazy.
SPEAKER_00So listen to um this is not whether I agree or not agree, right?
SPEAKER_03Um this is about And and and in all honesty, as you did point out, I think you're presenting yourself inappropriately to others.
SPEAKER_00Okay, okay. So it sounds to me like the root of it is that you're presenting yourself inappropriately to others.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00Um, that to me is respectability politics.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00That is exactly what that is. So um it could whether you that's okay or not is not really my point. It's it's the idea that someone should make choices about how they present based on how someone, the person who's looking at them feel and not the person who is in the body feels. And and that's I don't the idea of wearing a bonnet outside, not appealing to me at all. But I think if you kind of extrapolate that idea that people should dress to make other people feel better about them, is where it starts to be really uncomfortable for me. Um and and me also, because I wouldn't put it that way.
SPEAKER_03But it is that way, though. You wouldn't put it that way. Let me give you another example where you'll see exactly what I mean. Okay. I'm a doctor. I live and work in the OR. I don't wear street clothes in the OR. So as a result, my work outfit or uniform, there's scrubs. I do not wear jeans, sweats, leggings, bonnets, etc., etc., to walk, simply walk from my car to the locker room to put on scrubs. Because I care about how I present myself. I care about how the staff and my patients see me. So there are times when it does matter how people view you and their opinion of you. I wouldn't want people to see my work folks to see me in the way that I dress casually.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It matters.
SPEAKER_00I know, but it's the same thing. I didn't say it doesn't matter. I'm just I'm just trying to like just be really elemental.
SPEAKER_03That's when you start getting uncomfortable about it, when people are concerned about how others see them.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, because that is exactly you you reinforced the the point. You make those choices because it's important to you how other people perceive you. Perfectly logical, right? And it's a it's the same thing about why you see these bonnets as being something that they that should not be done because as the five wise uncovered. Um they're making they're making um uh it makes them look bad in the eyes of other people. So so the reason why I I I I challenge that idea is because it doesn't take too much of the next step to put that on so many other things. You know, don't do that. You're too um, a fat person shouldn't wear this because it makes them look bad in the eyes of other person, or a black person shouldn't wear this because it makes them bad in the eyes of other people. And I just earlier today saw this um this uh what was it? It was something talking about the the um the history of hip-hop.
SPEAKER_03Shout out to 50th anniversary anniversary.
SPEAKER_00Shout out to all the hip-hop artists and fans and yeah, all that stuff.
SPEAKER_03Can I get to go on a little tributary right there and at some point? You're doing this often. Ooh, you see, you see, it's rubbing off. I like it. Ernest lived one block away from on Cedric Avenue where hip hop started. Really? And then excuse me, not one block, across the street from across the street. So he saw all of the foldings of it because he was there in the Bronx on Cedric Avenue in the late 70s.
SPEAKER_00That's incredible. Isn't that something? That is something. I love that. Um, that's gonna go in a chapter of his book when he writes it about his um his um life in Ghana. Yeah. Um so uh let me not lose my my point. So you say the program that I was watching was was yeah, so they were um it there was a a discussion about um the Black Panthers and um their style of dress um compared to um Dr. King and and Black Panthers and the fact that they were more um Malcolm leaning than Martin leaning, and that um so they showed an image of Dr. King and um and um I think maybe Harabella Fonti was in it, and of course, um um oh my gosh, what's uh good good trouble? What's the former senator's name? Lewis. Um John Lewis, yes. Um, and how they were all in their suit and ties, and always, yeah. Um and they they were still they were still beaten and and so on, regardless of how they they they dressed. And and they did have the belief that was actually um where um we got to see a lot of this um on TV is the what has been so in the black community for a very long time, this idea that the more that we behave a certain way, the more we're gonna be accepted. And the more that we are going to be um considered um worthy is if we dress a certain way. So they can't say we're dirty, they can't say we don't know how to dress, they can't say that um these are the reasons why they don't want to hire us or want us to be in their neighborhoods and so on. But it really did not it didn't matter, it did not matter at all. It didn't matter on as many ties as you want, they still got beat down. Right. So it can be at the same time, it can be well, some people, not everyone, some people are gonna think negatively of them because of what they're wearing. And also they get to write to not care about the people who will think negatively of them. Those two things can happen at the same time. Do you do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_03Yes, but I do know what you mean. I think you're being a little short-sighted in can you say that they get to care about the people who think they don't care, they don't need to care about the people who think negatively of them. But they absolutely do in that those are the very people who are beating them with clubs and opening up fire hoses on them and sicking dogs on them. So they better care about those people. But let's unfortunately in this country, we don't have the luxury of not caring about the wrongs of the dominant community toward us.
SPEAKER_00Listen, um my um brother, Mark, two years older than me. I I get sick when I think about how much my mother curtailed what he wore just for that reason, because she didn't want him to be the kid who was stopped by police because he was wearing his pants a certain way, or he was that's not you know, I think that each generation has more and more of a right to be free. And I understand, obviously, um 60-year-old woman, I understand, and I have some of these same, you know, kind of visceral reactions when I say things. Yeah. Well, and fears about our children, you know. Absolutely, but but that's kind of the the thing I think where we differ is what do you do with that fear? What I what I do with that fear is to want to say, well, how you know let them do what they want and maybe there are consequences, but to not be free to to think that, well, I can't dress this way because the cops are gonna hit me over the head, or to think, I mean, each generation should be more and more free to be who they are.
SPEAKER_03And and and I'm actually a proponent of that also. And it's almost like I feel like sometimes I live in this dual world, you know, because I, especially the older I get, yeah, I think that people should be free to express themselves in any way that they want to, to wear their hair or wear their clothing, or wear their t-shirts or their lifestyles or whatever it is, you know. And um, and I really, really believe that because I think that when people feel seen, when people are uh feel beautiful, um, when people stop caring what outside people think, then that's when you're free. So you're right. I'm a proponent of people feeling free like that. I'll stop right there for a second. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_00Well, on the other hand, um they could get hit over the head if they dress a certain way. It could make them if if if a policeman had a choice, they may be the one that gets hit over the head versus someone or thrown into a police car. Um, so the the two things could be true. I think the bottom line though, uh so what I mean by that is there are freedom always comes with consequences, right? There's always a consequence to you um expressing yourself in a way that is counter-culture, right? Or in a way that is subculture, but not in the larger culture, right?
SPEAKER_03Right, right, right. I wouldn't counter per se, but okay.
SPEAKER_00Right. There's there's always that fear, and I think that people who choose to do that, that's that's a consequence, unfortunately or fortunately, whether you think they deserve it or or not. So it doesn't come without a cost, but I veer more on the side of um uh you you you be free at some point. Maybe you'll learn that that's not cool because you want to impress the people who don't like that, or you may learn that um you fit in to the subculture, and that's actually where you want to be, and you no longer have to make a choice to leave that subculture because you can, you know, live that way, you can work that way, and and and still be. There's so many ways to make money. We're not we're not still, we're not, we're no longer bound by being employed to by someone else who can make decisions about yeah, right? You can there's a lot of online stuff, you can, do you know it's different, you can be an entrepreneur, you can dress however you want, blah, blah, blah. People may never get to know you. You could use AI and create a whole other look. So that's kind of why I lean on the side of um of uh people make their own, people make their own choices.
SPEAKER_03And yeah. So Ange, and I think because it started out with me talking about women wearing the satin uh sleep bonnets outside of the house. Um I wonder how much of a choice it really is. And that's and that's why I that's why I have thoughts about it. Because I think that we are and be included sometimes, but certainly in in this case we're speaking about these people. I don't think they're necessarily making a choice. I think that this it's just the default non-thought. You know, because it's it's n and that's what I'm saying. It's if tell me more about that. What I'm saying is, like I said, I use the word lazy or preoccupied or just not thinking about it. Because what you're wearing to sleep, and you know, you're about to go out, you're rushing, or whatever. What I'm saying is, if perhaps they gave it more thought, there are other more attractive things to cover your hand with. Or that that you don't. It's the same thing I think of now. Oh boy, I'm gonna get so much. It's like I'm gonna get it so much drunk. Here we go. This is shit. This is my show. I can get in there. Hell yes, you can. It's your party. You can cry if you want to. Hell yeah. I don't think black yoga pants, like I don't think leggings should be worn outside the gym or the yoga class. I said it and I don't do it, and it's not, and I own them, but when I go to my stretch classes or yoga, I carry my clothes with me and I take them off when I'm in the studio. This is appropriate, walk-around wear. And it's not because I have um uh that I don't necessarily like the way my body looks necessarily. I just don't think it's appropriate. I don't want to run into a patient wearing my yoga pants. Right. Or I I I think that there are clothes, there are clothes to go to work in, there are clothes to play in, there are clothes to sleep in. And I think when we start meshing, merging them for comfort, I think that it's a it's a matter of laziness.
SPEAKER_02You know, it's the same thing.
SPEAKER_03Listen, yeah, I had this discussion with Ern. You know, I encourage him to dress more casually, you know, in the summer when we go out and all. But it got to a point where he was like wearing like wrinkled clothing. I cannot imagine such a sharp dresser. I cannot imagine. I'm always saying, like, can you start dressing down a little bit? Can you dress down? So it's like, I'm like, you look like you're going to walk Simba. You know, and I think in his case, it might be because he wasn't sure what I what the look I was going for, but I'm saying that just because you're walking around the house and and they're comfortable and it's easy to put on black leggings and whatever. If you just think for two more minutes, there might be something that I think is less gym wear and more streetwear. And I'm not I'm and I'm not saying it specifically to any particular body type.
SPEAKER_00Right. I get that. There's there's so many um um ways that I would um have a different perspective um about that, right? Because um you talk about lazy, you talk about decision, you talk about if they just if they just gave two minutes, they could make another choice. These are all assumptions that people have time, that people have, you know, um that that they're waiting, hold on. Hold on. I mean, what if you don't have any other clothes? Hold on. Exactly. That these things that are so like easy for you, you don't even think about having an option of wearing something different or not running out of the house where you um you have like 10 different hats that you could put on and you know, all of these things. And I'm not saying that these people for that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Right. I'm not saying these people don't have those choices. I'm saying that the the um the setup that you create when that is where you go where you when you see someone dressed in that way, all of these assumptions that you're making are problematic. They're lazy. Yeah, they they're they're gonna be able to do that.
SPEAKER_03I'm not saying that they don't get lazy. It's a yeah, but you know what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_00Right. It was a lazy decision. Yeah. However, yeah, yeah, you know, it's it speaks to it speaks to them not caring about themselves, not caring what other people think of them, lazy, if they only did this and this. Um I I I think that if when we allow ourselves to to um hold these opinions and not challenge them and try to dissipate them, they can get us into some really ugly points of view, right? This is how this is how I'm sure a lot of people feel about um gay folks. You know, oh, why do they have to act like that? Why do they have to kiss each other? Why do they have to hold hands? Why can't they keep that in the house? That's not for outside when hetero people do it all the time. And it's not a it's not a thing. It's like behave this way so that I'm comfortable.
SPEAKER_03So I'm comfortable with being around you. Exactly. And and listen, you know, I am not thinking that oh, people need to change the way they are just for my comfort or whatever. It's not that, it's not like that. However, I do know, and you know as well, that we are not speaking about indigent people who don't have closets full of clothing and whatever. I'm speaking about colleagues that I work with that I don't understand why they wear what they're wearing if they're professional people. Yeah. You know, to work when I know that they are earning money earning folks, right? Right. Medical professionals, right? That, you know, these are the choices that they are making to whatever. So we're not talking about the subset of people who may be running out the house because the house is on fire. No. No, but you you were you were referring to the and I and I know that, and I I obviously I know who I'm referring to people who are making choices to wear things in every setting, in any setting. And and and you know, as I've been getting older and older, I am so much more laissez-faire. People should be beautiful in however they want to present themselves. Right. Um, I just believe that they might feel more beautiful if they presented themselves differently. And sometimes it takes a different thought. Let me give you an example.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You and I recently spent great days together because you came here. You wanted to present yourself in a different way because you wanted to uplift your mood, you wanted to do whatever, make some changes for yourself. You know, and when we went shopping, you looked at some of the outfits and said, wait a minute, this is regular ange. I I want to get out of my comfort zone, I want to dress a little bit differently, I want to think differently or look differently or whatever. Right. It took some thought. Yeah. Right? And what I am saying is that there are folks that are not taking thought and saying, okay, I have to be to work at seven o'clock, nurses or doctors, or whatever. I have to be to work, let me just throw on, take off my sleepwear and throw on yoga pants or leggings and as a professional person and go to work wearing that. And I just don't think it's appropriate.
SPEAKER_00Right. Yeah, I I I um I think if we kind of tease apart that word appropriate, um it well, it it it's it's again um decision.
SPEAKER_03If you start doing the five Y's, like why is it? No, I won't do that again.
SPEAKER_00Decisions, the sh decisions have consequences, right? Like you um one may get a better job offer if they if they dress a certain way when they come to um an interview, or um you may be the person who gets to represent your company that actually happened.
SPEAKER_03Um because yes, it did happen.
SPEAKER_00You know, because because of how right, because of how you show up. So there is there is um a benefit to um, I'm gonna say it this way, to fitting in and to to exceeding people's expectations of you in a simple thing like how you dress. There's a there's a benefit to it. Um and as I was saying before, that can be true, and at the same time, it could be true, it is true that people can make that choice. And um it's when people are looked down on, um or you kind of have this this judgment around who they are and what they do and and and so on, um, in this kind of this is who this person is. And we do this oftentimes, I'm not speaking about you necessarily, but we do this oftentimes with very little information. Yeah. We may see someone one time, it's a first impression, and it's the first thing that we think about, you know. Exactly. Exactly. I think in there have been enough times in my life where I've made the wrong judgment about someone first impression. And sometimes that that feels pretty it humbles you a little bit. Pretty pretty nasty. It it it it feels it leaves a bad taste in your mouth that you made all this this whole story up about this person based on based on one on one um one thing that you saw or or heard or whatever. So I I get it, and and remember we're talking to our friend Tony about the don't I I don't know if I want to get into this. I don't know how much time we have, but the whole lashes, you know, people and yeah, the the the the big lash culture. Yeah, there's so many things if you think about it, even thinking about hip-hop, right? So many things that back in the day they were considered um, you know, real subculture. Oh, people are gonna think that you're like this and that. And then they turn out they influence the whole world. Yeah. These, these, these ways of dressing. And so to me, it's kind of like, okay, wouldn't do it, but whatever floats your boat. It's not, it's not um hurting anyone. It's I don't know why I keep thinking about this. Now I have to say it, but it may sound really stupid. It's kind of like my kids, and I used to force them to eat their vegetables, right? It was this thing, you, you gotta, it's good for you. You gotta. And I stopped because I remembered how it was for me. I used to hate eating my vegetables. I was the one who sat at the table and it was horrible. And then I remembered there's gonna come a point, more than likely, where it clicks on. And they're gonna make this decision for themselves. And me having that expectation or or um making some judgment with a small J about their choices now, it doesn't um it doesn't mean that there won't be a time where they may make an another decision, um, and so forth and so on. So I yeah, that's kind of that's kind of how I how I feel about it.
SPEAKER_03So, all right, you you're often stretching my thinking. Help me see the other side of it. And and I'm only speaking about people wearing bonnets. With a bonnet, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And maybe I'll uh ask you to if you can explain why everybody's wearing black leggings everywhere.
SPEAKER_00Because because they're tired of wearing tight pants and they just want to be comfortable.
SPEAKER_03There's nothing tighter than those leggings. There's nothing tighter if we uh shh panties ain't tighter than that. So my gosh. Well, what is that? Just fatigue? Like, I don't feel like putting on clothes. I mean, I guess it's it's comfortable. Okay, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_00You're asking me to explain, but I don't do it either.
SPEAKER_03I know. I don't, I don't, I don't do it either.
SPEAKER_00I don't do it for a couple of reasons. I don't do it because I don't like really wearing tight clothes, it's not my thing. Um, I have um, you know, I'm on my journey of accepting my body the the the way that it is, and so that definitely plays into it, and I'm definitely getting better with that, as you know. Um and um and it's also because I I I'm making the choice that there's a certain way that I want to show up, and that's not it. And that's not it for me. For me, right, but I don't, I don't, I don't get, I don't feel any way when someone else does it. I don't like, oh my god, uh, you know, I used to, honestly, but I don't like where I don't like how that can go. I don't like the more you get comfortable with being that way with that, the more comfortable you are with being that way for other things.
SPEAKER_03You know, I understand what you're saying because one thing that I've changed about myself over the years, and it's not a new thing anymore, but I'm becoming much less critical of other people. You know, in general. And I know this is like a whole episode. We're talking a whole episode of the episode. I've known you for a while. I've seen that. I've seen that. But I wonder, I wonder what the here's the thing. Here's the thing.
SPEAKER_00Oh, sorry. Um, let me just wait, let me just lock something in so I'll remember. Okay, go ahead.
SPEAKER_03Here's the thing. What if the person who has to leave the house in two minutes and they have a bonnet on their head, because their hair's not done, or whatever the reason they're wearing the bonnet? What if they had one of your beautiful head wraps available? I'm not asking you to sell anything. I'm just saying, what if they had a beautiful headscarf or a beautiful turban or a beautiful alternative? I think that their existence, their outing, their experience would be completely different.
SPEAKER_00I 100% agree with you.
SPEAKER_03And as a result of that, because I've experienced it myself. Yeah. As a result of that, like you said, you said, just put it on lipstick, how long does it take? Or just, you know, taking off sweatpants and putting on a pair of nice fitting jeans. Or, you know, I'm just saying if you can take a minute to elevate whatever it is, just for a minute, it changes your whole day. You get a glimpse of yourself in the mirror. You know, it's like when you see yourself in a head bonnet in the rearview mirror, whatever, your shoulders may slump a little bit.
SPEAKER_00It does, but Les, all of this to me is it doesn't start with making a decision to put on a nice headscarf. It's a mindset. And it is. It's a mindset, and that doesn't just start just so. No, I know.
SPEAKER_03And again, it may be okay in in in in in their their their friend group or in their family, or you know, um, it it may not be out out of um, it's definitely okay in their group because other people don't really do it if it were at odds with you know their cultural or physical beliefs or what have you.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, so I think it's I think it's that why is it okay? Why is that all right?
SPEAKER_00It's uh I'm um man, I I I I locked it in and then you you got me um sorry thinking about something else. It's okay, it'll come back, orange.
SPEAKER_03You the other day took the time and read 25 things. They were simple, some of them were very simple that you can do to I'm not gonna say become a millionaire or whatever, I'm gonna say to elevate your circumstances and uh emotionally elevate it or whatever. And as I said, I posit to you that taking off a sleep hat once you get out the bed, once you are no longer sleeping, once you're no longer sleeping, and putting on, you know, something that forget it, I don't ever need to see you. So it's not that makes you beautiful to me, but I think you would see yourself differently if you look in the mirror.
SPEAKER_00So it starts with why why would I want to look differently? Yeah, why why would I want to feel differently? That's where it starts. If if there isn't, but if there isn't that, then they what would make you think that they wouldn't spend those two minutes doing something else, making a sandwich, grabbing a whatever to drink, their water. You have to kind of understand what motivates people. And yeah, you're right, you're right.
SPEAKER_03And if they're not motivated, it's a simple tweak. Right. Sometimes it's just a little, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but it's you you you're gonna see things like that change when um when when people want a change in their circumstances. What whatever that is, and I'm not saying, you know, one is better than the other. I'm saying that um, you know, the the impetus for change is of changing how you show up is that you want to um something is um um something about where you are is no longer comfortable for you and you want to be something else. But if everything is okay where you are, and I'm like, you know, listen, if they, you know, that shit, if they excuse my English, if if that's the worst thing, y'all go ahead and do your thing. That's right.
SPEAKER_03Hey, if that's the worst thing going on, and if you feel beautiful in it, and if it makes you go out with your head up and then listen, I endorse it. You know what I mean? I take it back. Never mind. Never mind. But I suspect but I suspect that they that that look doesn't engender those feelings, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I I suspect.
SPEAKER_00But uh Yeah, I think we we um we're better off, we're much better off as people when we assume. The best of other people, right? It doesn't mean that you will get it right all the time. It doesn't mean that it won't hurt you. But I think the best case scenario for just um is is to accept is to expect that people are doing the best that they can. You know, that people are doing the best that they can.
SPEAKER_03I definitely don't believe that's true.
SPEAKER_00You don't believe it?
SPEAKER_03I definitely don't believe that. Okay, we're gonna fight about that. No, no. I mean, it's it's it's not we most. I'm not even saying that it's true. Must have been able to do that. I'm not even saying that it's true. At our best. We live, you know, somewhere below at the 60% of our best. That's our comfort zone, let's say. And I'm fine with that. I know, I know, I know that these people, that whoever it is, and I shouldn't say these people, that sounds funny. But um when folks are making choices like that, it's I think it's more of a non-choice than a choice. And that's why I'm speaking about it. You think you think it's more well, it's more the path of least resistance, which is a choice.
SPEAKER_00I'm sorry. To be it's yeah, it's a choice.
SPEAKER_03It's a choice that was made the night before when you put it on. It's not the choice from today. It's like Edge. When we sleep in our mascara from the night before, when we wake up in mascara, we that wasn't today's choice.
SPEAKER_00That wasn't today's choice. That's a good one. That's a good one. You know, there have been times, I'm sure, that you made a choice or made a non-choice, whatever, and you thought it was gonna be like, oh my god, that was the worst choice ever. And you go about your life, and it's like, oh, that wasn't so bad.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and then there's also the opposite of that. It's like, you know, you're like, eh, I'm good, everything's good, and then you end up at a function, and it's like, why am I dressed like this? I I can do better than this. And it's like, I'm not gonna be this way anymore. I'm not gonna put more thought into how I present myself.
SPEAKER_00Right, definitely. That sounds really familiar, like a story I told you recently.
SPEAKER_03Um that's what works for me. I know presenting the way that I present myself elevates my mood. And if I don't give it thought, I absolutely it's so easy for me to put a bandana on my head and you know, sweatpants and stuff. Much like I'm wearing right now. Um and and to run an errand, you know. But again, that's just not how I choose to present myself.
SPEAKER_00Choose there is the key word, is that choice. Yeah, that choice thing. So, you know, it's like um uh different strokes for different worlds.
SPEAKER_03That's for sure. Am I do I sound like an elitist? Like is this elitist thinking?
SPEAKER_00I don't think that it is. I think maybe maybe there's a little toe in the pool. You're not doing a backstroke. You're not doing a backstroke, but I think it may be a little in the water, just a little dip. You're dip into see how the water feels. And I'm here to say, I'm here to I'm here to pull you, I'm here to pull you out. Because you can you can be in certain circles and say what you just said, and they'd be like, Yes, I was thinking the same thing, and those boob people and you know, ghetto and all this other stuff, that that could that could have with someone different, it could have gone very much that way. And and you would have, you obviously you're not you're not that. I'm just saying that um it's it's on the edge, it's on the precipice. But um, but I get it.
SPEAKER_03I mean, but and and this the the conversation that we're having does not need to be limited to an ethnic group, blacks versus whites or whatever. For sure. I feel the same way about people walking around in those flannel plaid pajama pants. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well that that sometimes that that's that's pretty that's pretty dominant in the same the same group of people who wear.
SPEAKER_03No, that's that's uh I that's almost a universal thing.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. I don't live really in a kind of walking city, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_03I have a drawstring waist. And they're in the loungewear section, ladies and men, especially if they're fuzzy and this. All right, I'm now I'm just getting out of hand. You're getting out of hand. You're getting hands here. I hope you don't see me, you know. That's all. If you start seeing me wearing that stuff, you'll be like, Les.
SPEAKER_00You alright? You alright? You feel it all right?
SPEAKER_03No, it's but you know what? I'm gonna put it out to the audience. I would love your your views on it. You know, leave us a little bit on uh on our YouTube page or leave a comment. You know, I I'd like an opinion.
SPEAKER_00I mean, let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. All right, all right, how are we um with Timeless? I'm getting uh this is it. This is it for real, for real, for real? Yeah, all right. Well, let's bring it in. I think you were kind to me. You were gentle. Was I? I'm glad because I know I know your heart, but um, not but I know your heart, and I I I I love the way that we can have um conversations where we're not on the same page. And listen, people, people, please, please. You we don't always have to agree. We could be civil, we can be kind, we don't always have to agree. Yeah. So anyway, okay.
SPEAKER_03All right. This has been another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn. Brooklyn.
