Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
This is what the world needs now: two free-thinking “seasoned” Black women speaking their truth and inspiring others to do the same. Shaped by 45 years of friendship that began at the prestigious Brooklyn Technical High School through the Ivy League, medical school, marriages, divorces, triumphs, parenting queer children, life-threatening illness and many many amazing adventures. Each week, besties Leslie Osei-Tutu and Angella Fraser will push against boundaries in love, culture, careers, faith, politics and out-dated assumptions about women of a certain age. Remember, you’re never too old to change your mind…or your hair! (but more on that later :-)All views are our own and do not reflect the views of our institution/company. Information provided is not intended to serve as medical advice.
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
Ep 42 S4/6 Evening Wind Down
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You’ll be a fly on the wall in this episode. The Besties catch up after a busy work day and consider, in disbelief, that the 1 yr anniversary of the podcast is fast approaching.
Did Angie manipulate Leslie into becoming her co-host? Why was Leslie apprehensive and when did their roles switch?
At some point in their friendship, Leslie had been the risk-taker while Angie was known for and sought as a moral compass. Marriage played a role in Leslie quieting her 'shenanigans' and divorce has opened Angie up to being more of her authentic self.
Their exploration leads to a discussion of the adventurous good ‘ol days and their views on Christian marital dynamics.
Visit Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn website for behind-the-scenes extras.
What's up, Les?
SPEAKER_01Hello. How's it going? You look a little formal. What's going on? You're sitting there like you're either up to something or I'm not sure. You have to go to the bathroom. Gotten a hold of it.
SPEAKER_00I'm tired.
SPEAKER_01Me too. I just got in from work.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um that's all. But feeling feeling good. I had a nice full day. And um feeling good. Very productive day.
SPEAKER_01I'm glad. Well, yeah, uh you'll tell me about it. Welcome to another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
SPEAKER_00Brooklyn. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, I'm Les. That's Angela. And um Ang, Leslie's friend. Right. Leslie's psychic. Exactly. Who's who's uh um who's who's uh Johnny Carson and who's Ed McMahon?
SPEAKER_01Hmm. You can be Johnny Carson, I'll be egg McMahon. Let me tell you why. Did you say egg McMahon? Ed McMuffin.
SPEAKER_00Why? And yes, and uh, once she starts with that, I'm in trouble. I'm in trouble. Yes.
SPEAKER_01I was thinking, I realized that I'm the sidekick when I was just thinking, I can't believe you got me doing a podcast. I'm a dog on podcast co-host. How do I know? I see the logo on my car in the car window. I'm like, I look in my bag, and everywhere I go, there's cards. Yeah. I'm not at the point yet where people recognize me on the street. That will come. That will come, that will come. But and I'm almost like a year in, and we have been putting out a podcast, and you got me doing this. I would never think that this is something that I would be doing.
SPEAKER_00I know. What the heck? I know. Um I'm pleasantly surprised that you said yes. I kind of knew that you would at least try it.
SPEAKER_01Why? Because like I try anything that you have me do?
SPEAKER_00What? You're coachable. You're coachable and you're persuadable.
SPEAKER_01I thank God you haven't gotten me hooked on crack or whatever, you know.
SPEAKER_00Stop it. Listen, stop it. Well, that's that's why you say yes, because you know how they do they feed they feed you in, they feed you and they give you a little for free.
SPEAKER_01So, this is what you've been telling me. Like, you've been telling me a couple months before we started the podcast. Like, Liz, you could do this. Come on, you could do this. I'll do all the work. That's the free stuff. I'll do all the work. You just have to show up. So, in other words, you've been grooming me for 45 years.
SPEAKER_00For such a time as this. Such a time as this. Such a time as this. You know, this is why I knew that you would at least give it a try. How? And if you if you wanted to back out, I would have found another way to configure this without you. I thought you were gonna say that.
SPEAKER_01You would have just uh found another way to convince me to stay, because that's what would have happened.
SPEAKER_00No, no, no, no. Well, you know, it really depends on why you said no. If there are a lot of reasons that if you said no, I would not persuade you, but if I knew that it was fear or you just being too much in your head about it, I would um I would I would try. But I know for me, if I felt like you were not in it, then I wouldn't be in it. First of all, wait, wait, wait. I thought this was a safe space.
SPEAKER_01For what? No means no. No, doesn't mean no with with you. That's what I'm saying. It's like I'm not sure if you're my enabler.
SPEAKER_00Let me explain. Let me explain, Lucy. Okay, good. Okay, so I know that oftentimes when I push you um beyond where you're comfortable, you're grateful afterwards. Right? That's it. And I know what I am not willing to do, right? I'm not willing to make you look stupid, I'm not willing to um stress you out, I'm not willing to um make you have regrets, none of that. Right, that's not your aim. And you and you know that. Yeah. And that's trust. Yeah, and so within that. Exactly. So that has to come first, so it's not like this this flip thing, that has to come first. And so I didn't, I wasn't sure whether you were gonna um whether you were gonna keep it up. And there are points along the way that I checked in. It might not have been obvious, but I checked in to see if we were, you know, having the same energy or if your energy was even higher than mine around it, and it proved to be um, you know, um true that that you were really into it and enjoying it and so on. But I know that kind of um that's who I am for you a lot of the time. And this is what I want to know. When did that flip? Because there was a time in our friendship where you were the enabler, you were the one who would get me to take risks and so on. When did that flip? When did you become a stodgy old lady?
SPEAKER_01When did I become safe?
SPEAKER_00I like stodgy better. I like stodgy better.
SPEAKER_01When did you right?
SPEAKER_00We kind of become a little stick in the mud.
SPEAKER_01I know.
SPEAKER_00I need to flip back.
SPEAKER_01I need to flip back and be the alpha dog in this relationship.
SPEAKER_00Well, you used to call me. Well, you and the rest of our friends, you used to come to me for moral advice. I was like the moral majority. Ange is up and up. She's not gonna. Ange, I was thinking about no, no, don't do it, don't do it, but don't do it, don't go over the fence.
SPEAKER_01That's like that time recently when I went when I went to the um the ball game, you know. I uh met some co-workers and we went to see the ball game. And Somerset Patriots play at the TD Bank Stadium in uh Bridgewater or whatever.
SPEAKER_00What is that? A D-League team or something? No, it's the no.
SPEAKER_01It's the Yankees that pier under them. What does that mean?
SPEAKER_00Oh, it's like they're they're I don't know. I don't know. It's the team that they pull their people from.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, okay. Gotcha. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, it's it's big stuff. So anyway, so I went to the game last week, and it's right across the street from uh Target shopping mall and whatever.
SPEAKER_00Can I tell you how it how it happened? I want to I want to tell you how how I heard it. You were so you were so concerned about doing something that was that was I could have.
SPEAKER_01Here's the thing, look. I could have paid five dollars to park at the stadium, or I could have paid this many dollars to park in the target lot. I parked in the target lot. I was so afraid.
SPEAKER_00Well, Leslie, that's like five dollars.
SPEAKER_01Five dollars worth of stress. You were so nervous. I just I got $15 worth of stress because I was so nervous about parking where I wasn't supposed to be parking. First of all, I did see a sign that said only customers can park here. And I'm like, oh my god, they know, they know. It wasn't like Tom Leslie. Listen, listen. I pretended like to walk into the entrance of the Target, and then I doubled back into the stadium. Listen, by the time I got to my seat, by the time I got into the stadium, I was all anxious and twitching and nervous. I'm like, you know what? This is ridiculous. Les worth it. You're not built for that in the world. I'm not built for that. That's just not me anymore.
SPEAKER_00You're not. And I had five dollars. You're not. Umny calls that Auntie Leslie BC. This is so this is the way it used to be before Christ. I guess so. I'm doing walking in some illegal lot for what?
SPEAKER_01And then I was like, I hope my car is there. Because you know, in the Brooklyn days, when you do that, your car will not be there. Right, right. But okay, really. They hired in Brooklyn, they hired people to stand and watch, like neighborhood people to stand and watch. People park and walk out. And they, I guess they'd pay them, and then they'd call the tow truck. Your car would be gone.
SPEAKER_00Wow. Wow, and what they get like five dollars to tell to be a snitch.
SPEAKER_01But I guess you know, things are always different in Brooklyn. In Jersey, they don't care. It's kind of like in Florida, mayhem.
SPEAKER_00So really, I want you to think about what happened. What happened to make this switch? When did this switch happen? Like around when? College or around when? Because you used to convince me to do there are things that I I wouldn't tell, even though both my parents have passed away, I still wouldn't say it out loud.
SPEAKER_01But not illegal, immoral things.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Is that what we're saying? Is that the story we're saying on the house?
SPEAKER_01All right. I'm I'm I really don't know what you're referring to. We would be, I we were a little more crazy and adventurous, I would say.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But um okay, like give me like okay, so one example. One example.
SPEAKER_01Am I gonna be okay you saying this out loud?
SPEAKER_00Pardon?
SPEAKER_01Am I gonna be okay with you revealing this?
SPEAKER_00I don't know. I don't know. But just one example, right? Is when we went to um when we went to that speakeasy. Um, I forget the name of it. I don't even know if it exists anymore. And we were we were of age. What's wrong with that? Like well, it was just it was a place with much older people. We we were the youngest in there by far. By far. It was just me and you, it was just you and I and everybody else. We were in we were in our 20s, Les. Are we talking about Chelsea Place? Chelsea Place, yes. That's the name of it. Yeah, and it was like Bobby Short was on the was on the piano, or or his cousin was on the piano, and it was so much fun. But that's never anything I would do without you saying, come on, Ange. That wasn't me. It was in fact you that wasn't don't let me go further. Don't go further. Don't let me go further, because what a night was had. A night was had. But so that, for example, that's not something I would have thought of to do by myself. And I would only have done that with you.
SPEAKER_01Yes, I guess I've changed. Well, you know what I think? Maybe it is I got burned out early.
SPEAKER_00So no, that's not. I don't know. I don't know. But it was fun though.
SPEAKER_01But I'll tell you another thing. I became a mom before you did. Yes. That's and that um because let's say Omari is about seven years older than Kai.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Maybe seven or eight. Yeah. So I was a mom first, and you know, motherhood lends itself to cutting out the foolishness and getting serious.
SPEAKER_00Right, right. Okay, but when did it flip? So now we know why you stopped, but when did it flip?
SPEAKER_01When did you become irreverent and out there?
SPEAKER_00Oh my god. And and it's yeah, it's very, very interesting.
SPEAKER_01We have to actually Well, the funny, the other thing for me too, it's just that, well, I guess as you get older, you know, you get calmer. Right. And you know, the adventure. I'm not gonna say my life isn't adventurous right now, but I'm gonna say that um it's different. I got a lot of that behind me. I got I took care of that already. Right, right. And then, you know, what else I think really changed me? My husband.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_01You know, because you know, uh Ern and I are very different, very different people, right? Right, you know, so and he and I have been together so long that um he being the you know more sedate, introverted person and whatever, it's like I had to take my shenanigans underground.
SPEAKER_00Oh, they're still in there. I just threw them in my pocket. You threw me the ball so I would run with it. Exactly. Exactly. Take this, Ange. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I was talking to someone the other day and I was telling them that um uh that if I had stayed with my children's father, um I think that I would have been a very different person. And I think they would have been very different.
SPEAKER_01How so? How would you have been different?
SPEAKER_00Um I I don't think that I would really be fully myself. I think that um I would have conformed a lot more than I am.
SPEAKER_01Um what would that have looked like conforming in in that relationship?
SPEAKER_00Uh I think I would have tried to fit into a mold. Um I was much more of a people pleaser than and um I think just to keep the peace I would have um you know not asserted my needs or um I I would have uh I would have allowed him to be the dominant um decision maker and things like that, I think. Uh and I know that even if I didn't, there would have been a lot of dissonance.
SPEAKER_01Um, you know, it's funny that you bring that up, Ange, because this gets into a longer conversation than we might be prepared to have here. But I'm thinking about a Christian marriage, a quote unquote Christian marriage, and where you said that he would be um the dominant person. You know, some Christian husbands would call that an appropriate response to him being the head of the household, right, and that the wife as the help meet should fall in line or you know, take a um a different role, a lesser role in some respects.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01You know what I mean? So as Christian women and as uh uh then you being a Christian married woman, what would have been so wrong with allowing your spouse to be, in your words, the dominant or my words, the head of the household?
SPEAKER_00Well, I um I I I wouldn't frame it in the kind of what what would have been so wrong, I frame it more in that is not my nature, and so I feel like I would have really masked myself to fit into that and um it would have shown up in other ways, you know what I mean? That that um the fact that I wasn't being fully myself trying to fit into a mold versus creating another way to be in a Christian marriage. That's just one way. It's not it's not the only way, as as I always say. Um there is uh I understand the whole there has to be a leader and things like that and the order around those um traditions. Um I am more a spirit of the law versus a letter of the law Christian, right? Why did God structure things that way? And does that does that why fit into the context of how we live now? Um is that the way that that showed up at that time because the why fit in the the why worked that way then, but the why works this way now. So yeah, there should be order. Um well women no longer are um stuck in certain roles in in society, right? Whereas back then there were few other options. That's yeah, so that's what you did. And so I I don't um I don't believe that there are these um uh yeah, I I believe in the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law, if that makes sense. And um so I think that I would have reached a point where I realized that I couldn't do it.
SPEAKER_01In the way that in the way that it was previously in that in the traditional in the traditional way.
SPEAKER_00And sometimes, you know, the there there is a possible scenario where the husband would understand and would adjust.
SPEAKER_01It's not that's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking that um but not that, not that husband, right? Right, right. Ooh. Move on. Um no, because I was thinking that that um your ideas and your the way you live your life doesn't preclude you getting into another Christian-centered relationship, yeah, it just depends on who your partner is and what their ideals are and beliefs and um priorities, you know. Yeah, when um, as I understand it, the Bible doesn't necessarily mean that the man is or that the spouse is better than you know, their spouse. It's just that um it gets complicated.
SPEAKER_00And um I don't I don't know if it's all that complicated, to be honest.
SPEAKER_01How so?
SPEAKER_00I think So for example, well, for example, right? If if the kind of Um necessary components of things to work is that there is a way to decide which decision is going to be the one that moves forward. Right. So there needs to be a way to do that. So it's not just back and forth, you know, struggling and whatever. So there needs to be that. There needs to be some order around who's going to do what. There needs to be some order around uh what the other person does when um there is a decision but another the other person isn't taught isn't um bought into the decision. So if you think of it like that, just kind of uh at a 10,000 foot level, then it gets kind of simple, right?
SPEAKER_01Then so that's just like saying as long as you do these 50 things, then it'll get simple.
SPEAKER_00Well, um it's no, I mean, it's just like anything else, right? When when there's a when there's a process or an order around something, you can bake it down to five steps, and those five steps can have 10 steps within them or 50 steps within them, but you can also take it to the top level and say these are the five steps. So I'm just kind of saying that if those are kind of the the basic, the elements of what makes a partnership work, the parts that I think are placed on relationships are the the man does that and the woman does that versus someone does that.
SPEAKER_01Right, right, right, right. Yeah. So we talked about this a little bit when in our partnering episode, remember?
SPEAKER_00Right. And I think that every, you know, people have different strengths. I think it puts pressure sometimes on men who don't necessarily want to play that role to kind of fake it and and play that role because that is what they believe that they they um they ought to be doing. Um so that's that's an example. I don't have to go into it more.
SPEAKER_01And and the only thing that I want to say about it where I see potential conflict is with those partners who are more um likely to yield to the letter of the law when they're in relationships where a part another partner may be more in the spirit of the law.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01You know, and finding that balance, you know.
SPEAKER_00Right. Right. Yeah. And you know, the another thing, important thing that I've learned is not every every Christian is an individual, it's more than having a Christian spouse or partner that that would make it work. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I learned that too. And and I'm still learning that. Yeah. And I'm still learning that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's uh it's very interesting.
SPEAKER_01It is. On another note, so you said that you've been busy today and you've had a full day.
SPEAKER_00I have. Sure. So I started my day at um therapy. I go to therapy each each week, and um it was amazing. I I don't know if I told you, but I had I chose between therapy, physical therapy on my ankle or mental therapy on my thinking. And I chose the mental therapy because I can do the physical therapy at home.
SPEAKER_01And um I I I that's a good I that's a good choice that that you know that was a good um uh cho way of deciding to make the choice.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um and you there's a name for that. There's a name for that that you call it when you make that kind of decision. What is that called?
SPEAKER_00What is that?
SPEAKER_01Something that you've like when you um the process of weighing two different things. I think there's a name that you've had you have for that. But go ahead.
SPEAKER_00I I don't know. I come up with names all the time. I do.
SPEAKER_01And I always say, is that a corporate name? Is that a corporate thing? And then I take it all in the wrong direction.
SPEAKER_00Um, but anyway. So that was a great way to start the day. And then I met with a potential client um about half an hour after that, and that was also amazing. It's someone who I really admire, and um I am so flattered that she admires me too, and um I'm looking forward to working with her. And um and then I was at a coffee shop, so I stayed there and and worked there for a few hours, maybe three or four hours. And then um I'm on a a board of a nonprofit locally, and the executive director has resigned, and so another board member and I planned his um farewell um get together, and so we went to that next, and that was really sweet. So geez, you've had a full day. Yeah, I had a really full day, really, really, and it was good.
SPEAKER_01Pardon? Like a real adult doing all these things, different things.
SPEAKER_00Yes, all the things.
SPEAKER_01Me, I could be in the OR all day. I know. I tried to I I I I told my chief, I'm not used to being in an OR for 11 hours, you know. It's like um a little too old for this now.
SPEAKER_00My last case was over five hours long. That's crazy, you know. I know. I I um I appreciate by the way that you're whenever possible, you're always okay, anything urgent? Okay, gotta go. Um so yeah, but I I knew it was gonna be an intense day for you when you're like that.
SPEAKER_01So um I'll I'll just mention um one of my patients. I was speaking to the patient, and they said to me um, after I was explaining the anesthesia, they had had many surgeries previously, and they said, you know, why do I need to be paralyzed? And I said, Well, the type of surgery that you're going to um, no, no, no. Yeah, she asked, Why did she need to be paralyzed? And I said, Well, you need to be on the ventilator because, for whatever reason, you know, and they need to do the operation on your abdomen so you won't be able to breathe on your own. And I need to put you on the ventilator. And I explained the steps and whatever. And she said, you know, why has nobody ever mentioned that to me before? Wow. She said, I had a lot of surgeries and nobody ever said that to me. That's a shame. Isn't it awful? And it reminded me of my stupid surgeon, uh, no, anesthesiologist, when I had my uh kidney removed.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, I should say kidney donated. That um he said he comes in and he just says, You're gonna go to sleep and you're gonna wake up. And I looked around and I'm like, Well, what kind of crap is that? What am I, a toddler? I mean, I am going to be with this person in the operating room and I shouldn't respect them enough to let them know what the plan is and you know what's gonna happen. And the patient was very nervous at the time, but explaining that to them made them a lot calmer.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01So um, before I left for the evening, I went back into the recovery room and spoke to them. And I was dressed like this because I was uh uh I had changed out of my scrubs and scrub hat and whatever. And they said, Who are you? Like, why are you talking to me? So kind of groggy. And I said, I'm your doctor, Dr. Ose Tutu. I'm the doctor that put you to sleep, your anesthesiologist, remember? And they said, No, you're not. Oh no, I said, You don't remember my glasses? I know I look different, but the glasses. Right. Wow. You know, the one that gave you all that good information in the beginning. Show me.
SPEAKER_00They probably remember it by now. Like now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, maybe, maybe. But most times, if you speak to patients in the recovery room, the surgeon or me, they don't remember having had that conversation at all. In fact, some of the patients will complain and say, they never talked to me and told me what happened. That's why we always speak to family members because the patients are, you know, they're in La La Land. They're like, you will not remember any of this.
SPEAKER_00I see, I see.
SPEAKER_01So it's it was that uncommon for something I hear very frequently, believe it or not. No one has ever explained this to me. I didn't know that you do this. I never had my anesthesiologist talk to me like this. And I'm like, really? Wow. Really? First of all, you know me, I like talking. And I don't get the opportunity to speak to patients very often because my patients are asleep.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So, you know, I gotta get in my hours worth of talk in 10 minutes, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01But I enjoy talking to patients because it's a tough time, you know. It's it's I'd be nervous too. Right, right. This is not something they do all the time, yeah. And how would they know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Well, they had a very good anesthesiologist, I'd say to be true. I'd say that I know it to be true. Yeah, excellent.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so um I think we had a nice little conversation here, my friend, my tired friend. You look tired.
SPEAKER_00I know. I'm tired. I look tired. Okay, let me wake up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like in fact, I'm wondering if you all hear my uh stomach growling.
SPEAKER_00I don't. Sorry, that was loud putting on the glass.
SPEAKER_01I said to you, um, I can let's do some recording. I can record as long as I don't have any alcohol, because then I'll be out. But now I can have alcohol because we're about done.
SPEAKER_00I tried coffee, but coffee doesn't really um it doesn't really I just enjoy drinking it. It doesn't really.
SPEAKER_01You're a copycat in that regard.
SPEAKER_00I am all right, all right, sweetie. Good to catch up with you. I didn't get to talk to you all day today. Well, just briefly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I was I was so busy today, but now I can.
SPEAKER_00All right.
SPEAKER_01How so? Oh, by talking to you for a couple of hours, remember? No, not a couple of hours, like four times. No, that's quite a right. But remember a few days ago when we were having a meeting, and we were on the Zoom, it was a Zoom uh FaceTime meeting. Four and a half hours.
SPEAKER_00I'm like, I got to go. Four and a half hours, but we planned out so much.
SPEAKER_01We cleaned up it was a work meeting.
SPEAKER_00It was a work meeting, and um it was so productive. So I'm not I'm not mad at it. I'm not mad at it. Yeah, okay. Why are you bringing up then?
SPEAKER_01I'm just like, uh, your voice is very familiar to me. I need a break.
SPEAKER_00We checked a lot of things off the list, so I'm good.
SPEAKER_01Anywho. All right, pal. Thank you. Pal, you're welcome. This has been another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn. This was like a being a fly on the wall episode.
SPEAKER_00It was it was. Can I say my Brooklyn first?
SPEAKER_01Oh.
SPEAKER_00Brooklyn. Yes, this was a fly on the wall, and this is how it's gonna be sometimes because you are in the Andre and Leslie show.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So listen, that just reminds me before I go out. I've been listening to a podcast and we're not sponsored, but um, it's called Fly on the Wallin. Okay, I think that's the name of it. It's a um uh uh interracial couple, um, and they just talk about she's a creative. Uh I'm not sure what he does. He's probably a creative, also, and they have a cute little baby, and it's they're funny as all heck, and I've just been laughing and listening to the fly on the wall. And oh, okay. So is that what you're saying this was? So, yeah, this was like a fly on the wall with the besties.
SPEAKER_00Okay, got it. All right, all right, see you later, love you.
SPEAKER_01Bye now.
