Ep 45 S4/9 Too Many Options

Do you ever reflect on your past to remind yourself of the mountains you’ve climbed, the monsters you’ve vanquished, and the lessons you’ve learned? One Bestie does, and thinks it’s a necessity; the other doesn’t and wouldn’t even know where to start.

Ange, the entrepreneur and deep thinker, ran into a dilemma as she did some "mining" of her accomplishments throughout her career: she uncovered a new viable income-generating idea that also totally aligns with how she wants to serve.  Should she stay focused on her current, long-term plan or detour to this new juicy one?

All singularly-focused-for-life-Lez seems to care about is how much time will be left for her in this equation. The comically contentious dialog unfolds in this new episode. If you enjoy this episode or our podcast overall, we welcome your support.

Please join our Besties Quad Squad as a Patreon subscriber at the $5 or $10 monthly level. You'll receive exclusive behind-the-scenes content.

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey, and hey Les.

SPEAKER_01 0:02

How are you?

SPEAKER_02 0:04

I'm doing good. I'm doing good. I'm trying to convince myself that I'm doing good.

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Such a liar right now. You never, you've never lied well.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

I know I'm never razzled because of technical issues, but I'm going to concrete.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

You had to go get fancy. You had to go get fancy.

SPEAKER_03 0:23

Well, you know, what's the enemy of good?

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Better? Is that what it is? I don't know what the enemy of it is. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 0:31

Working on better and it's not working for now. But welcome to another episode of Black Boomer Best East from Brooklyn.

unknown 0:37

Brooklyn.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Something feels like it snapped. Okay. I think this microphone, I mean this headphone on my big head. Um broke again. Oh no, it didn't. It just slid back a little bit. It's fine. Fancy. Yeah, this is my fancy one. Hey folks, we are back. We are back trying to um get another podcast out to you guys, another episode out to you guys. It's been um really intense week for me. Leslie started out intense, but now she's on vacay.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

Yeah, and chillin'. I'm in my happy place.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Chillin, chillin'. Um yeah, and so I I brought up a um something that was just disturbing me. And um we decided to share it with you guys. Um it's I I I don't even know how to jump into it except to say that you know how it is when you go to a restaurant, you're really hungry. I hope this happens to a lot of people, not just me. You're really hungry and you look at the menu and there's like ten choices.

SPEAKER_03 1:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Ten options. Like good options. Ten things without cilantro.

unknown 2:06

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

And you can't desi decide, and it just gets it gives you a headache because you're hungry, you're getting hangry, and then you can't decide, so you're getting frustrated because it's like, oh my god, which option? Everything is gonna be amazing, and I can't choose.

SPEAKER_04 2:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

That's uh what's been happening with me. This um just so what had happened was that I had um chosen what I was going to spend um like focus my business on for the next uh few years, just focusing, focusing on creating a black hair culture curriculum, um, you know, the history, entrepreneurship and um black hair culture, um, what's happening in the diaspora around black hair culture, politics, power, love, hate, all the things. All the things, yeah. And creating a curriculum that could be used at universities, cosmetology schools. I mean, it came from the number one, the desire that I've had for a long time to kind of explore this topic, but also working in the field and seeing that the lack of education around black hair culture can be really um impactful in in people's lives. Um one one thing that um um that happened is that a friend of mine who is a black woman did not grow up in black culture per se, just lived in white communities, um, and was the only or one of a few black person at at school and things like that, and went to an Ivy League school. So um and she is the godmother of a um of a black young preteen who is adopted by white parents and had a situation at a black African um hair hair salon getting her hair braided. It was traumatic, crying, pain, all those things.

SPEAKER_03 4:45

And things that we grow up with, things that we grew up with, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Yeah, and um I mean she went with her hair still in braids, her parents didn't know she was supposed to have taken them out, come with clean hair ready to be to be braided, whatever. And my friend, as best as as she could understand, she interpreted that as um as um kind of punishment that the African hair braiders were kind of punishing the young women because their parents were white, and anyway. Oh I I know.

SPEAKER_03 5:28

And my first reaction was let me just let me just clarify.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

So your friend who took her goddaughter to the my friend did not take her goddaughter, my friend's goddaughter was taken by her white parents.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

I under I got it, got it. Yes, but your friend's interpretation of that experience was that the child was likely being punished because of I understand. Okay, right. Well now your friend had a in what you I guess you're gonna describe a lack of understanding of that culture because she herself didn't necessarily grow up in that culture.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Is that that that's where I'm I'm leading, and I wouldn't even say that what she believes to be true is not true. My thing was that it is one of ten possible things that could have happened, and to have shared with this young person and her parents that that that single thing it is because of that, it really, really disturbed me because not understanding that there's typically pain when you go to get your hair braided, you know, many of us um take a painkiller if you're tender headed. You know, if the young if if the young girl wasn't used to having her hair manipulated by her parents, right? Um, whether her her whether she was tender headed, whether um, you know, we're used to growing up, you know, it hurts to get your hair braided or combed. Sometimes you get whacked with a comb if you don't keep if you don't keep um steady while somebody's trying to part your hair.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

Or you gotta hold your ear down while they're pressing your ear. Whatever, exactly it doesn't get burned.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Exactly, exactly. You go into grown up with, yeah. Right, you go into hair experiences with an expectation of some level of discomfort, some level of discomfort. It's a part of the culture, and so I I felt that that um young girl was um robbed of that understanding of what in fact could have happened and and that sorry and that that is a part of our culture that she may now believe that um these women um were angry at her. It it may have reinforced some feelings she she had about disconnection, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

Um and it can also inform her future experiences, exactly that exactly is a place that I'm unwelcome, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Yeah, right, and in the broader context, around black people is a place that I'm unwelcomed. And so, how does she find place for herself living? Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 8:47

And so Yeah, especially because she lives in a home of with white parents, exactly, so there might be some in in in uh feelings of um disconnection, exactly lack of belonging, exactly that she's experienced.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Right, I know I know this is the stuff that I think about.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

So, from this one experience, and I'm sure like others, that you've said, like that there is there's something that you can do about this.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Yeah, there's something that I can do about this. You know, another thing that comes up all the time because I work in theater and I'm working with um black creatives a lot, and just hearing the way that they respond to how I approach them. If they have locks, for example, you know, and I teach them how to properly um, we call it do a wig prep, getting your hair as flat as possible so that it can be.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

Like you did mine when um to to put on the case.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, right. And they say, and these are Broadway actors, and they say no one has ever taken the time to do that for me. No one has, you know, has approached me and my hair with love, with respect, with, you know, they tend to kind of draw back, and I could feel that energy and just things like that, hearing that constantly.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

Um so but also I remember during one of your head talks, um, I think it was head head talks when you interviewed the model.

SPEAKER_04 10:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 10:31

She um her experiences in the modeling community when people approached her hair and got it wrong, or did not, or didn't opt, you know, make it look as right as it could be, and all of that. Exactly. Exactly. You identified an area, a whole industry that needs some education in that same age.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Right. Right. Right. And so I just I in my daily writing, you know, I do my morning writing, and it all kind of came to me, it converged in my heart, spirit as I was writing, and I was like, okay, this is it. This is it, this is what I'm gonna do. Um, and and so and I ordered all of these books, they're right over there. I don't want to um go grab them and have everything fall apart, but um just getting really immersed in this space. And then I was working on creating a framework around it, right? Whenever you're kind of developing an offer, you really should create a framework around how you're gonna take it to market, right? How you're gonna um what's your go-to-market strategy around the product. And as I was doing some um work around developing the framework, um the template that um was recommended to me by my business coach was to use something that has you explore your career, your work life, and um kind of do an inventory of what have you created? What are the th what are the things that you've done to see what the themes are, right? And that's that's important work because it allows you to anything new that you're working on, it's not gonna have um longevity or stamina if it's just kind of this shiny nickel thing, right? If it's not something that really is something that you enjoy, something that has been um consistent in your life, something that you truly um believe in and want to do. So I was doing this.

SPEAKER_03 13:04

And that's why you've been talking about looking at um the umbrella or a theme behind all of this. That's when you came up with this idea. Exactly. Exactly. So you recently um called me on the phone and and you start you were having some angst. I was having a headache, difficulty with that. Well, I stopped you and I'm like, do we need to have the discussion on the podcast?

SPEAKER_01 13:34

I know, and I want to hear from you because one of the things that you said to me was, um, I feel, and how do you do that? How do you sit down? How do you, you know, how do you start to think about what you've done over a period of time?

SPEAKER_00 13:51

And for me, it's like, oh, that's easy. And you were like, how do you do that? I'm like, you sit down and move on, not a little bit. Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Like when Monique reminded you of things that you've been through, and you were like, Oh yeah, I've done that, I've been through that. Yeah. So, but I I it's important, I think, to do that type of reflection um at points in your life. Um, and so I want to challenge you to do that. And what it may look like for you to kind of make it easier is look at five-year chunks or two-year chunks, you know, wherever you want to start, you know, when you were 20, from 20 to 22, or from 20 to 25, or when you were 30, from 30 to 35. What are those things that were important to you? What are those things that you did that you were successful at? What were those things that really challenged you? Um, and take stock of those and see how you have changed, to see what you've learned, to see um what you've taught other people. It's it's really powerful work.

SPEAKER_03 15:05

I'm smiling right now because I'm like, wait a minute, when did this become something about me? Who told you that I felt the need to do this type of reflection? This was your I think everyone should do it. You felt you needed to do. I'm good.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

I think everyone should do it because it's amazing. We are so lacking understanding ourselves, understanding ourselves and giving ourselves credit for the things we've accomplished, the struggles we have overcome, the things that used to be so hard that are now you don't even think about it. It's so easy. And being able to kind of leverage those, that knowledge, that self-awareness, self-knowledge, and bringing it into the new thing that you're doing that seems so hard, and I'll never, and then it's like, but I've done this and I've I did it this way, and I can try it again, I can do that, and it's probably gonna work again for me.

SPEAKER_04 16:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

When you don't do that, Les, it's it's like you you're starting everything brand new, and it's oh you're saying like reflect on your successes. Reflect on everything. Reflect on everything because here's the thing: you don't always know that it's a success until you start to reflect on it. And then you say, Oh my god, I didn't realize that I learned that lesson in all that pain. You know what I mean? You you right now may be just thinking of something like, man, I just made it through. I just made it under the door.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

You know, like um, what is it?

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Um Indiana Jones.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

Indiana Jones. One of those marble uh yeah, you just you just rolled under the door before the door is closed.

SPEAKER_03 17:07

And in and in fact the story of my life, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

I know that. This is why this is why I'm talking about it. You're not you're not under that door, and you realize that you made it under that door, but you brought with it so much learning that you can leverage again. I really am gonna encourage you right here and right now to do that work. Do that work, do that work.

SPEAKER_03 17:34

Okay, okay, I get that, I get that.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

So I was doing some of that work again.

SPEAKER_03 17:41

So, where did the angst, your angst, come from?

SPEAKER_01 17:46

There is where it comes in, and now we're going back to this menu with all of these options. So I'm looking at my body of work over my career, and I had a pretty long list. Amen. And then it was well, what was the value? You did all this stuff, but what was the value of it? And you work through that, write that down. Um, an example, I um I went to Mexico for four months um in in the mid-90s, and I I was selected for a reason, and the value that I brought was I was able to give technicals technical support. I was working at JP Morgan at the time for this branch office in Mexico City. Um, I'm very personable. I was um I formed very close relationships with the um the employees who became friends there. Um and that's really important. The value of that, especially when you're in tech, is that um you have to build relationships, right? You can't just be this this geek, this technologist. You you have to be able to kind of understand why, not only why things aren't working, which is where tech folks seem to spend their majority of their time, it's important. But it's also why do these people need this to work? What is why is it an important part of their own?

SPEAKER_03 19:25

Want to lay it down.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Why is it an important part of their business process, right? Because when you understand that, you start to understand, well, there may be other ways that I can solve it, right? And this way of solving it that takes six months, they may actually just need a report that takes five minutes. Right? The struggle may be that they can't get this report out, not that this whole system is down. And you may be able to generate this report to them on the back end, no problem. They go on about their merry way instead of you being bogged down in the technology of it and not in the um in the outcome of that technology, right? And so um, so that's the way that I saw that I brought value, that I have those skills and I brought it to that work. So you write all this stuff down in order to get a theme. So the theme that emerged for me in my body of work is um boldly inclusive, boldly inclusive. Inclusive inclusivity is one thing, but I go at it in a very bold way because I know sometimes you just kind of go around the surface with things having to do with diversity and inclusion and equity. People tend to kind of go around the edges. They don't want to be disruptive, they don't want to be controversial, they don't whatever, or they don't understand the things that really matter to groups of people. And I get to the core, I want to address the core, like this black hair culture. It's the core of so much of the lives of black women. And it's not something that is talked about in that context. Do you know what I mean? It's it's it's kind of this black hair is this manity thing, it's just this, you know, this kind of outward thing. It's not often looked at in a very um deep um uh core part of our being. It's uh our hair is such a representation of so many other things.

SPEAKER_03 21:47

Right. And what I like about this the fact that you were able to look at a theme across a lot of different disciplines. Um and And I'm gonna say in terms of employment and corporate, because you've had an experience with your hair. Yes. Several. One really big one. Yeah. Where you've had to uh bring litigation against discrimination based on your hair. Yes. Um, there's obviously legal societal input because of the Crown Act and things like that.

SPEAKER_04 22:24

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

But then in your completely seemingly separate work in theater, you're you're noticing that as people um with natural hair are getting prepped for their wigs to do theater and production, that there are problems with it because of the lack of knowledge and understanding. And then you hear this story with your friend and her goddaughter, and you think that, hey, perhaps there was a misinterpretation of her experience of this child's experience in the beauty shop. Did you know that there is a a Broadway show out now about um the theme is an African hairbraiding studio?

SPEAKER_01 23:11

I saw it on IG.

SPEAKER_03 23:13

African hair braiding. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

I saw the playbill. Someone was holding the playbill. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:19

Um, so I I love that you were able to identify that this thread going through so many different areas of our lives of every not just our lives as women of color, but everybody's lives. I mean, theater is not a black thing, obviously, you know, corporate um structure and um HR practices and the laws and things like that. It's not just a uh minority person or people with um kinky curly hair thing. Yeah, it's everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

It really is.

SPEAKER_03 23:56

I mean, it's clearly in this the um the parents' lives who are white of this child of color. Absolutely. It's wow, who would yeah, yeah, it's everywhere. That's so So where's your struggle? You've now identified that the need is there and you see where your niche is gonna niche is gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

And I'm like, this is it. This is it. Okay. So I'm doing this work and something pops up. Nothing new, it it's it's the um the role that I played uh with uh connected black professionals, the um employee resource group organization within the company I work for. And how I um really I'm I'm gonna just give myself my flowers, how I created a structure that transformed that organization and took it from, you know, what's the problem, interviewing people, what's the change you want to see, what is going on now, what do you want to see differently, all the way to being able to influence the company, having the CEO come to us to get language around communicating about um the racial violence that was going on at the time. Just just expansive. Um, we added nine new chapters in South Africa and Kenya, just this body of work that I'd done.

SPEAKER_03 25:34

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

And not only not only that, not only that, but it's something that was so that I saw immediately how I could package it as a service. Um meaning creating a um an offer to um as a blueprint for creating impactful PROs in corporations.

SPEAKER_03 26:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

So I won't say effortless effortlessly. I know exactly the way that it was done. I can develop an offer around this.

SPEAKER_03 26:33

This is what I'm saying. It's getting bigger.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Okay, this is what I'm saying, Leslie. This is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 26:40

Somehow I'm gonna get roped into this.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

This is how this is what I'm saying. So you can see that is something that uh is almost already um built. Obviously, there's work to be done, but in terms of creating the structure, the steps, how to do that transformation from where you are now to where you want to be. I've got that. Success, overwhelming success. I have people who could be, you know, give testimonials about that. And wow, this is so cool.

SPEAKER_03 27:21

And I just feel like this is work that you've been building on and developing like for years and years, like all your life, you know. I know your body of experiences is of work and what have you. So are you now don't ask me that question informing me? Don't ask me that question. You're gonna just start getting busier and busier, and you're having less and less time for me.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

It is about you, isn't it, Leslie?

SPEAKER_00 27:49

Are we still gonna be podcast co-hosts? Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 27:56

You're gonna have time to talk to me four times a day.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Well, so this is like a real a real thing because it's I have a tendency to do the things that are harder to do. That are harder. For the black hair culture curriculum, I have this passion around it, but it's something that I have to create from scratch, right? I had to do that with the ERO. I created, you know, the the structure around it for, but now I've done it and I can duplicate it. The black hair culture curriculum is something I have to create from scratch, and so the desire for doing it hasn't gone away at all, right? But it's now is there this other thing? How do I make time to do it? I don't want to take time away from me, all the things, all the people, Leslie, yes, and so uh the headache, the menu I'm looking at. Oh my gosh, these are two amazing options. Which one should I do? Which one should I do? Comma now. Um which one is going to be um, you know, so anyway, this is what prompted that.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

This is historical.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

This is like, oh my gosh. I spoke to a Johnny last night and and um um he's he's such a grown-up. And he gave me some really good uh counsel around it um and had me leaning towards the um blueprint. Um and so I have to kind of um think through everything that that that he shared with me, and um but now is the last day of the musical that I'm working on. So um right after we finish here looking at it today.

SPEAKER_03 30:13

Today's around.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Today's closing. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm in my black. Yeah, or not. So yeah, I've been working on um um beautiful, the Carol King musical. And it's been here at um in Raleigh um with North North Carolina Theater, the wig supervisor for that. It's been a lot of fun, really wonderful folks that I've been working with, and um the production is just just beautiful. Every time we say that, it's like beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 30:47

Yeah, yeah, beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Today's the last day. What's that?

SPEAKER_03 30:51

It's gonna be like hashtag beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Hashtag beautiful. So once this is done, tied with a bow, I can really dig into what I'm gonna do, how I'm gonna do, whether there's sequencing that I have to do.

SPEAKER_03 31:08

Um yeah, yeah. But see, you're I'm a good organizer, but you take organization to 3.0. Well, because you really go into the backstory. And and what I what I like best about that is that being the producer of this podcast is a good example how you've really set up such a great framework that we could even conduct classes in podcast podcast um startups and organization because you have such a good um framework. Me, I'm a little bit more, I'm I'm more um working on the cuff. Okay, come on, let's just let's just jump in and whatever. And it really set me set me down and said, come on, Les.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Right.

SPEAKER_03 32:03

Well, I mean, it's just first, the mind work first.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

And but that, but that is that is Les, I think what the framework does. Um, for me, a framework helps me to be the most creative, right? Because it helps me to to always go back to, okay, why am I doing this? What what am I trying to um what is the feeling I'm trying to evoke for people by doing this work? You have that place to come back to all the time when you want to just go off. And going off is fine, but let that be an intentional decision, right? I'm going off and I'm deviating. What is that?

SPEAKER_03 32:43

I don't know what I didn't touch anything. Oh, that is something else, some balloon, some celebratory stuff. But I I I like the way that we work together because we bring two different types of skill sets.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Absolutely. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 33:03

We've been doing this. You know how when we're uh in a different uh arena where we're creating or when we're sewing together, whatever, and you're like, Les, don't just start cutting that pattern, don't just start cutting. You're like, take a measure out and get a rule and I'm like do it on the grain, lay it out on the grain, not eyeball this, and it's like here I come out with a pant leg this length and the other one this length. It's like, why didn't I do what she suggested? Oh my gosh, that's hilarious. I'm about to cut twice.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

That is the story of our lives, the story of our lives. Um this is something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:54

What if they give you headaches and angst though?

SPEAKER_01 33:57

You know, I don't well, it's a part of the growing, right? Because I'm gonna get over this. Something is gonna land, both things will probably happen. Um, you know, it's not the the blueprint, the aero blueprint work is something that I can set up to, you know, kind of be automated, or yeah, maybe I'll do some some marketing around it and so on, but it may be something that could kind of be turnkey, so it's not um always intense work.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

So yeah, it's it's gonna work out. No, I really can relate to the stress and the sh the stress of the stretching.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:38

You know, Monique and I were just talking yesterday. Uh, I'm in Florida now, so I'm with my sister. Um she's taking a business course and she's telling me how intense it is, yeah, you know, and uncomfortable in a way, but she does appreciate the growth that she knows is gonna come from it.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

Right, right, right. And that always happens. So um, yeah, but I'm in the swirl of it right now, and so that means I'm in the swirl of it right now. It does, it does mean that, especially since you're on vacation. You're in on vacation, you have a little brain brain space for me as soon as the show is over. So, starting tomorrow, well, I have a few coaching clients tomorrow. Um, but starting Tuesday, you will be hearing from me. Um, but I have specific questions for you. I won't like bring you into the whole swirl. I will have said, okay, Les, this or that, this or that, this or that.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

That's easy for me. That I can handle. I know, I know. And and I'm good at at really deep digging deep into those choices and giving you an an informed opinion on stuff.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. So that's what we'll do. So, anyway, I gotta run the theater calls.

SPEAKER_03 36:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

Thanks so much, Les.

SPEAKER_03 36:05

It's been another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.