Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
This is what the world needs now: two free-thinking “seasoned” Black women speaking their truth and inspiring others to do the same. Shaped by 45 years of friendship that began at the prestigious Brooklyn Technical High School through the Ivy League, medical school, marriages, divorces, triumphs, parenting queer children, life-threatening illness and many many amazing adventures. Each week, besties Leslie Osei-Tutu and Angella Fraser will push against boundaries in love, culture, careers, faith, politics and out-dated assumptions about women of a certain age. Remember, you’re never too old to change your mind…or your hair! (but more on that later :-)All views are our own and do not reflect the views of our institution/company. Information provided is not intended to serve as medical advice.
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
Reimagining Black Hair Culture
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This week has been a week of deadlines for Ang - commitments to theater, making custom wigs, and preparing for her first (of many, God-willing) talk on the topic of Black Hair Culture. Leslie keeps firing questions like she’s sitting at the feet of a sage - LOL.
There’s so much more than meets the eye when it comes to the culture of Black hair and Ang just wants to shout it from the rooftops. Did you know that there are mathematical and technological connections to hair braiding? Check out the research of two ethno-mathematicians, Dr Gloria Gilmer and Dr Ronald Eglash,and be amazed!
It’s so refreshing to see the Besties genuinely supporting each other’s pursuits. Thanks for listening. See you next week.
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Hi Ange. Hey Les. How you doing?
SPEAKER_01I'm ready for another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
SPEAKER_00Damn Skippy. As am I. As am I. Welcome. Wait, wait, wait. Wait, I missed my cue.
SPEAKER_01You certainly did. He went into the damn skippy. That wasn't the cue.
SPEAKER_00Sorry, we've moved on. This is a live show. All right, set me up again. Set me up again.
SPEAKER_01Welcome to another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn. Brooklyn.
SPEAKER_00There you go. There we go. There we go. Okay. Yeah. But you've been up to pal. Oh my gosh. That sounds like a setup because you know this is a good thing.
SPEAKER_01It is a setup because every single time I talk to you, you're like, I can't talk to you now. Or I only got five minutes. I'm in the middle of reading. Or I'm preparing for my lecture. What lecture?
SPEAKER_00What you talking about? It's it's um this week has been a week of deadlines. And they weren't they weren't sudden, but they were this week. And were they procrastinated deadlines or not at all? Not at all. And that's why I'm so calm, copacetic, the world is great. I'm not all stressed, even though I have some big things coming up. Or tomorrow morning I'm I'm delivering on one of the deadlines. Um I just did um some wig styles for a local theater. I squeezed them in. They had an emergency, and um, so they're picking up tomorrow, and that was on my list this week. Meeting with some clients is on my my list this week. Um what else? Um Well I was.
SPEAKER_01Wait, wait. Did I just hear you say emergency? Sorry, move my camera because I'm reaching for my spit um spit film. Your spit film, your pop filter. My wait, what this is live. This is live. We get to have our bloopers. I just heard you say emergency wig pickup. What is that like? Hurry up!
SPEAKER_00My hair is gone, I need a wig. Stat. No, actually, that was I had a um a wig that I made that was picked up today, but the um the thing that was the emergency is a um local theater needed some wigs styled for a production that is going into what we call tech, which is um where all the minutia gets worked out and they have dress rehearsals and so on. So I um I did that for them. Um it was maybe five wigs, so not uh a big one, but I certainly did not really have time for it, but um I really like the other cliches, break a leg. Break a leg, yes, yes, yes. All the things. So, anyway, that's done and waiting by my front door for them to pick up in the morning because I don't know what time I'm getting to bed. Um, because um, yeah, one of the big things is what's happening on Friday.
SPEAKER_01Friday, two days, two days from the day.
SPEAKER_00In two days, but I'm I'm gonna talk about that. But you know, after that, I'll be out of town coming up your way for a really big thing. And so for the last five weeks, I've been preparing for that because I've had to do a lot of introspection and write, and so I'll talk to you about that too, because that's really exciting. So it's like one thing after the other, but here's what's amazing. Here's really what's amazing. I'm not overwhelmed, I'm busy, but I'm not overwhelmed. I feel like I can manage my load because I chose what to do. I said yes when I wanted to say yes, I said no when I wanted to say no. That's a good point. That's important. Yes. So boundaries are becoming much easier for me to set and um, you know, and um what's the word? And uphold. And um, so I don't have I mentioned it here before that I I got my um what's called my um assignment from the Lord to do a black hair culture curriculum.
SPEAKER_01You might not.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's it right there. That's it. I don't know how long it's been now, maybe three months when you know I do my morning writing and I was which is just stream of consciousness, it's not journaling. I don't I don't really journal per se. I just write what's on my mind and pray while I write, and um uh just whatever comes to mind. I just get it out, and as I was writing, I got this download to create a curriculum to teach people about black hair culture, and it it was such a as I wrote, I was crying, I was I was kind of bawling to be honest, because it connected well, it connected so much of my past experiences, good and bad, around hair, um, where I am now in the hair space with the wigs and the theater and all of that, and what I want to do in the future, which is to educate and be um an advocate or continue to be an advocate for um things involving um black women, primarily black people. And so it just felt so aligned, and um so that's what my big assignment is, and on Friday I am going to a local university to do a talk about some of my research in um uh black hair culture, and I'm so excited. I'm collaborating with with with Jazz on it, my sister, and um it's so spectacular. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's so it's a lot. What's what's what I'm gonna find somewhat interesting about that is that you and Gertrude have two different mindsets, and you come from two different disciplines for sure. For sure, but also um the way that you think, almost right brain, left brain type of thing. Um, talk about that a little bit.
SPEAKER_00I'd say that's true. So um, plus we have this sisterly dynamic, she's my older sister, and you know, um we don't often collaborate on things like this. This is the first time, I think, that we're doing a talk together. She won't be there, so I'm bringing in her research, um, but um she won't be able to make it. So it's the first time that we've done this type of collaboration. So because we're different, um I think that uh she's a professor, right?
SPEAKER_01So she's used to anthropologist.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, medical anthropologists, so cultural anthropologists. So she is um um comes from a well, let's investigate this and what are all the possibilities and and really creating a platform where her students can reach their own conclusions, right? Um nothing remotely wrong with that. But I'm coming more from my lived experience and more, I would say, um, the practical applications of this, how a lack of knowledge or wrong knowledge or um things like that, how they affect people in their day-to-day, like how do they affect actors, how do they affect um, you know, um people in studying theater? The school that I'm going to has a theater and dance program, so I'll be speaking to those students. So it's a little different um um point of view, um, but I think what has been really surprisingly rewarding for me is that I've been able to kind of um process her way of thinking, and it's made me sharper. It's made me more prepared to get up in front of I don't know how many people and talk about this with comfort because I've already kind of worked through some of the different ways that the audience may be thinking. Um, and I'm I'm going into it with a lot of um a lot more clarity, I think, and ways of explaining things. Because you know, me, I I um I'm really uh big picture. Yeah. What does what does that mean exactly? What what does that mean exactly?
SPEAKER_01Oh something excellent. Let's bring it on back.
SPEAKER_00I want to all right. That that right there. Which I think works in this creative setting, but I really want them to um have specific, as you said, learning objectives for this talk. So um, so I just I feel really prepared. I'm excited about the the topic. Wait, I have to I have to read my um the the title that I have come up with. Um it is it is it is I've gone too far. It is an invitation to reimagine creative inquiry through the study of black hair culture, and it's gonna blow their mind because it's blowing my mind, and I thought I knew, I thought I knew some stuff, but it's blowing my mind. Um, so it's really exciting, and that'll be um Friday.
SPEAKER_01Where what was the impetus for this uh download? Well why the need why the need for the for the download or for the lecture or the series?
SPEAKER_00Oh, I see. Got it.
SPEAKER_01So why is this an important part of their curriculum?
SPEAKER_00Sure. Um for for a couple of reasons. So these are um um students who will be in theater, students who will be teaching theater, um, so different aspects, acting, dancing, those types of things, but also maybe leading to becoming directors and um and um sharing this craft with younger folks if they go into um teaching theater. And I um in my experience, my my beliefs and also um what I have seen from, especially from working in theater, but it's certainly not just not just theater. I think that there is um a very narrow understanding of black hair culture. So it's not only, and I'll give some examples, but it's not only black hair culture itself, but it's also getting people to think beyond the narrow ways that they may think. They may so don't think that you know everything, because the things that you don't know will blow your mind. And if you are, let's say you are directing, or in any way you're trying to um dramaturgy is is the term for when you um are creating the the the storyline and how all of the aspects of um are coming together to to tell that story. So it it could affect the music, it could affect the design of the wigs and that whole thing. Um it's just creating that consistent storytelling. Um and I think the more that is known about culture, the more that story can be authentic. And so my focus is on black hair culture because I think it's fascinating, fascinating. Some of the things, the way that mathematics are related to um black hair culture, the way that oh my gosh, so so many things. All right, give some examples.
SPEAKER_01Like, what do you mean?
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh. So one thing that's really interesting is there is this mathematical term called fractals.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I'm familiar with it.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so fractals.
SPEAKER_01And actually, think of a kaleidoscope when I think about fractal.
SPEAKER_00I'm not sure if it's a kaleidoscope. I maybe it's a collector.
SPEAKER_01You know how a kaleidoscope, when you look in it, it has like repeating patterns of triangles and symbols. Yes, but it looks complex.
SPEAKER_00But if you look at it, it's yes, and I think I think maybe those are fractals because it's really it's similar shapes um in different scales. So let's say you look at something really big and you see um, you see it's a huge triangle. And then when you look closer and closer and closer, you see that it's made up of all these tiny, tiny triangles. So no matter what, whether you're far away or close up, you're gonna see the same pattern. Um and you see it in nature all the time. If you think of um, if you think of a snail shell, right? Um you see it just all the way, and and it has aspects of infinity in it, right? Because if you're repeating this pattern and you keep repeating it, there is that. And so this um he is an ethno-mathematician. There are actually two of them that I'm gonna be talking about. One is a black woman, and one, I think it's a white guy, and his name is um Ron Eglish, and her name is um, her last name is Gilbert. What's her first name? Glory Gilbert. They're both um ethno mathematicians, so they bring culture and mathematics together. Really? Yes, crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy and amazing. So um what Dr. Eglish saw is he's a you know, he comes from a Silicon Valley tech space, and he was looking at an aerial view of this village in Tanzania. Um, and he noticed that there were these things called fractals, right? So he noticed that there were these big circles, and then within circles there were circles, and then smaller circles, and everything was in these circular repeating um patterns. And he actually codified it, he he used code to describe it, and it followed the mathematical computation of fractals, so they were absolutely fractals, and he also saw this in hair braiding, in African hair braiding.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_00And he actually um developed some code that he has um, he went into some schools in um black and Latino neighborhoods, and really trying to connect this thing that they're really familiar with with this math that may not that they may not be as familiar with. And so they were able to code different braiding patterns using a computer.
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_00And it really connected to them because this thing that they think is just way out there, but they see it all the time.
SPEAKER_01I I love that aspect of it because it's it's I can think of so many different instances where like someone says, I don't like math, I don't do math, exactly, and then you point out to them like, do you keep a checkbook? Right, you do such and such, such and such when when you do you give a 15% tip every time is like it's like you know, you're doing math, exactly, you know, that type of thing.
SPEAKER_00We don't think about that, you know it's that type of thing, hand rating math at what? Yeah, the other part of it is that we are um taught that nothing um of value other than music or or dancing or things like that come out of the continent, and it turns out that these fractals, these structures, were way more um advanced. I mean, it's it's how computers are are developed. And European mathematicians didn't really recognize this until I think it was in the 70s. But this has been going in the 1970s? Yeah, that's when it got named and it was kind of identified as this kind of non um um uh what's the word? Well, not only it's not random, usually mathematics is um it's it it's outside of the way that the standard way that we learn math. So this was a brand new way, but it was it is the way that um math is used in computers, and so you would not think, because of the way that our educational systems are set up, that this type of technology comes out of the African continent, but in fact it does. And um so that's pretty interesting.
SPEAKER_01Wow, it certainly is. And you're gonna talk about this on in in your lecture.
SPEAKER_00Right. And and again, just tying it back, it's it's a way to um show the students that they have to remain curious. They can't think that a thing is a thing, you know, that what they see is all there is, or what they've heard is all there is. Yeah, um, so it's it beyond the that it's black hair culture, it's also um things are more than they seem. And so be inquisitive, you know. Um it in any what in whatever design or creative endeavor that you're in, you have to remain um inquisitive. And if you thought that braids were just that and not all this other stuff, and this is just one example, so it's really just getting them to reimagine, as the the title suggests, to reimagine creativity um through looking at black hair culture differently. Um, so that's one of a few examples. Um, that's pretty heavy. Yeah, it's it's it's heavy. I um we're also going to talk about some of the um the ways that um enslaved Africans, um, how hair became ways that they um showed their individuality, ways that they um sought um to escape, using hair. And people may know some of those things, you know, using cornrows to show direction and things like that. Right. But there's there's more than I heard about that. Yeah, there's a lot more than that.
SPEAKER_01And waiting and hairstyles to code different messages. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So wow.
SPEAKER_00I know it's it's pretty, it's uh my mind is blown. Like it gives me a headache every time I learn something new because, like, oh.
unknownOh my God.
SPEAKER_00Um, so it's really exciting for me, and I hope to make it exciting for the students, and they will never look at braids the same way again. Um, that's pretty cool. It is, I feel like it is. So um, that's what I'll be doing on Friday.
SPEAKER_01You were going to teach a class, but they asked if more members of the university body can come in and listen.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. No pressure. No, no, because yeah, look, when you prepare for a talk, you're gonna do it well, whether it's one person or you know, 200 people. I don't know how many people are gonna be there, to be honest.
SPEAKER_01Um, but what if you do like um like um Ed Norton did with Ralph Cranden?
SPEAKER_00Hello! Hello out there in TV. I may do that actually, break the ice.
SPEAKER_01I'm the chef of the future.
SPEAKER_00Why do you know this stuff by heart? Why do you know this stuff?
SPEAKER_01Oh my god, because when you've seen it 5,000 times, but yeah, okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So so that's that's coming up, and and um next week, and I'll just say this really briefly, I am actually um developing my another um talk, if you will, but it's kind of like my signature story, or one of my signature stories about what I learned. Um the lesson I learned when I got fired because um they didn't want me to wear braids at work. And so I'm developing a story around that, and it will be filmed and all the things, and that's next week. So um all of these things are aligning and converging, and I'm so excited. What's that?
SPEAKER_01I see why you've had limited time with me.
SPEAKER_00You know, yeah, but I'll see you when I come up with it. But it's exciting, and I let me just say, let me just say something else. I have reached a point in my life right now, right now, right now, where um I feel unstoppable. Like um there there's no angst. It's just do make the next right decision and keep moving. Just just just just keep moving. I now know what I don't know, right? Because earlier on, you don't know what you don't know. Now I know what I don't know, and I'm getting very specific answers to my questions, right? Because when you when you know what you don't know, you can say, okay, I need to know this, I'm gonna learn it, I'm gonna apply it, and I'm gonna learn the next thing. So I just feel like really um uh really aligned and um and feeling good, feeling good in the neighborhood.
SPEAKER_01All right, I got some music for you. Oh Lord. Oh Lord.
SPEAKER_00Am I gonna sing? You don't know it. I don't I can't hear it well enough. I'll wait till the cards. You have to you have to sing it because we're not supposed to play other people's music. Can you sing it?
SPEAKER_01Um unstoppable today. I'm not a good singer. That one.
SPEAKER_00Um unstoppable. Got it, got it. Thank you. Yeah, I feel that way. And and you know what, you know you're a big part of that. Because you you you well, you just you just um you're such an amazing listener. Um, you're a cheerleader, you you know, and I think I think you're taking on too much, and then I'll say not so much, and then I'll say, maybe, and then I'll take something off the list. Um I trust you. Yeah, I trust you. I um I enjoy this this podcast, even with everything going on. Um I enjoy this this time with you. And it and this is a part of why I feel the way that I do, because um um I to me this is like serving, you know, this is this is um how we serve others, and that's important to me. By sharing your talents, yeah, yeah, yeah. And sharing other things, by sharing my friendship.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. You did give me a little pushback when I said to you, I thought I was concerned that you might be doing too much, or you know, and after you thought about it, you kind of cleared out some of the ideas that you had. And then look at this big thing that opened up. I know. So it's almost like you made room in a whole other part of your mind for this to develop, and it was like, boom, okay, this is where you want to spend your time. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. That's a bold move. That's what that's that's what happened. Well, you had something to do with that. If I didn't listen to you, you're like, you don't know me, you don't know me. Don't tell me what to do.
SPEAKER_01Don't tell me what to do. Or don't tell me what not to do, you know.
SPEAKER_00Who you is, who you think you is.
SPEAKER_01Exactly, exactly. Wow, this is awesome, and thank you. You know, now in one of our um future podcasts, you know, we gotta talk more about this. So this is going to be continued because I gotta know how it ha how it went and what they got from it, and you know how how it developed even more.
SPEAKER_00All the things you will hear about them, and I will share because this is exciting, and I am an advocate for this body of work, and so I'm gonna share it as broadly as I can. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, next time we get together, what I want you to expand on, and I'm sure it will come up, is how this is gonna make a difference to the listeners and what people in theater in speci uh uh specifically will um take away from this type type of knowledge and um understanding.
SPEAKER_00Sure. And you know, what I'll say too is that when when you're a creative, right, um you're the the the ways that you synthesize information is different, right? Each each person is different, right? Because as a creative, you're bringing together ideas that that you have heard about from your childhood, whatever, and bringing it into a moment, right? So it's not always this, um, they're gonna learn this, this, and this, and they're gonna use it this, this, and this way. It's more that um the more that they know, the more that they will be authentic, compassionate. Um, it maybe it's not because an actor is a diva that they are responding a certain way when you approach them around their hair. Maybe there's something else going on. Show them some grace.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00Um it's it's things like that. So it's not always this um linear, um, this linear thing. It is just something that I hope will affect just uh them as human beings, that they will be better for it.
SPEAKER_01Sure, sure. When um when I asked you about it and you started responding, I started thinking in terms of you know, the way that I am in a linear way. Okay. Like you get this information, what is the result? I want to see the result right here. It's like ask and then answer. Right. I I guess more like uh Gertrude in that response. Yeah, yeah. Um yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's like um, I think I told you before about what happened um when I was doing um a wig supervisor on the color purple um at the local theater here, and there was that scene with um Suge and um Seely, and Seely was doing her hair. And um in most productions, Suge is wearing a wig when that happens. And I asked the director if she could do it unwigged, because to me that's a tender moment. That's a cultural moment when someone is scratching someone else's um scalp. And and it would not have been um uh it would for me, the authenticity would have been missing if there was a wig, because the wig wasn't like a parted wig, it was a fancy wig for her next scene. And so I asked if she could not be wigged, and he said yes, and it just became this, you know, and I know people um in the audience, um black or otherwise, but mostly black people, would recognize that as being really real, uh-huh. Versus nobody's gonna be messing with her hair, you know, nobody's gonna be scratching it in between the curls. Exactly, exactly. So it's things like that. It's things like that. Um, that it it won't be.
SPEAKER_01A lot of people, I guess, wouldn't even realize that.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. So it it it will manifest um this knowledge will manifest in very different ways for different people because you're bringing in um your your own experiences into it. But um I know, and one of the reasons why I know is because I sent a survey to every director that I've worked with in the last five years.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_00And I asked them, what do you think? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gave them two questions and score it from one to five, and every one of them said yes, yes, yes. Well, yes, yes, because it was just two questions. Um, and so I I um I'm looking forward to um serving in this way. All right, well, go ahead, teacher. Thank you, thank you. Is that that's that's that's what we're gonna talk about? Just my stuff? Yeah, okay, all right. We're keeping them around, we're keeping them a little shorter.
SPEAKER_01All right, yeah, which is which is good. We'll see everybody next week. We'll see you next week. All right, this has been another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
unknownBrooklyn!
