Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
This is what the world needs now: two free-thinking “seasoned” Black women speaking their truth and inspiring others to do the same. Shaped by 45 years of friendship that began at the prestigious Brooklyn Technical High School through the Ivy League, medical school, marriages, divorces, triumphs, parenting queer children, life-threatening illness and many many amazing adventures. Each week, besties Leslie Osei-Tutu and Angella Fraser will push against boundaries in love, culture, careers, faith, politics and out-dated assumptions about women of a certain age. Remember, you’re never too old to change your mind…or your hair! (but more on that later :-)All views are our own and do not reflect the views of our institution/company. Information provided is not intended to serve as medical advice.
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
From the Besties Vault
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This episode comes out of the Besties Vault, recorded back at the start of our season 2. The Besties began a discussion about a few interesting documentaries and have decided to delve deeper into them as separate episodes this season.
The 1619 Project chronicles African Americans from the first enslaved Africans brought to America in 1619. Another is Contradiction, which examines the role of the Black church in the lack of prosperity in the Black community.
This episode and all previous episodes are available on YouTube. Please join our Besties Quad Squad as a Patreon subscriber at the $5 or $10 monthly level. You'll receive exclusive behind-the-scenes content.
Visit Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn website for behind-the-scenes extras.
For this episode, Ange and I dug deep into the file cabinet and pulled out what we know to be an oldie but goody. It's actually gonna be new to you because it's a never-before-aired episode that was originally intended to begin our season two. Don't you remember that was the season when I did the entire season behind an overlay of an old television screen? I don't even know what I was thinking, but I hope you enjoyed this episode. And you look marvelous.
SPEAKER_01I'm on TV.
SPEAKER_00You are I know, I know. I'm happy because we're together and we're recording, and our almost two months. Has it been? No. Hiatus. No, it's been about a month and a half. Our month and a half hiatus. It's affected me. And I've been yearning to get back to talk to you.
SPEAKER_01I know, but but here's the thing that is so weird because we still talked all the time because we talk several times a day. But but we missed this, and I'm not sure what it is that's different, other than you know, we have people react to it, and so we miss that interaction, even though it's not live, so those types of things, we miss that interaction, and um, you know, I have been looking at the numbers, not daily as I was before, and there uh there are people, you know, we're getting new people watching our podcast, but I did miss this forum with you. I really did. Well, yeah. Um, so well, I'm back. I see, I see. Um, we're back. What what's what's the name of it? Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn. Brooklyn. Woop whoop!
unknownYes.
SPEAKER_01Um, so you may notice that this is a video. One of the things that we have decided to do for season two is to have um a podcast and um so audio and video. So we will be launching our YouTube channel and um uh just having a uh an additional way that we can reach an audience and connect with video. Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. Um, and some people will be the same and some be different. So that's one thing that we decided to do that's different. We were hoping that we would be together um for this new season to start the new season, but this chick got COVID. And um just for the first time, too. The first time. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00You've probably been the last holdout.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and it wasn't awful, like I didn't lose my taste or I kind of you know, so I didn't lose any weight or anything. Yeah, it was it was it felt like a really bad flu, like body aches and things like that. But in any case, you know, I'm not coming anywhere near Omari for six months. Well, but no, I get it.
SPEAKER_00You're right, you're right.
SPEAKER_01I'm just saying, you know, he's um the immune system is so suppressed, I don't just don't want to take a chance. So um, so anyway, we are pivoting and recording. And here we are, and here we are. Cannot believe you have that TV. Okay, I'm gonna try to ignore it. I'm gonna try. Um why?
SPEAKER_00This could be my signature look. Okay, I'm you know, old school. This was the TV I grew up with, and I was one of the last holdouts to have a remote. So I remember, you know, it's like always the kids' job to turn the TV, and then when we lost the um the handle, the you know, the knob on this thing, you would have to get a plier and turn the to the different channels. So that's right. That's right.
SPEAKER_01We were fancy. We I I um we had a vice grip, so because then you would end up losing the pliers when you had to use it so it would just stay a small vice grip. And the different type of antenna.
SPEAKER_00Why couldn't we just get a replacement from Amazon? I know, I know. Um look up the model number, Google it, and then get the part from the so crazy.
SPEAKER_01It's so crazy. We need to not be so throw away people. I was thinking of something um earlier today, and I had to crack up because I'm like, who says that anymore? And why what a way to show age. I was talking about, I think I was writing about, you know, what we might talk about today during my my morning writing. Yeah. And I said something like um um how you had to, you know, how you crank the engine. And when we back in the day, we would actually turn, and you know, you'd hear the I don't even know if that happens anymore, but it comes from an actual crank way, way back. You'd have to remember you'd have to put the thing in and actually why would I remember?
SPEAKER_00No, I would not remember that. What are you talking about? What a mob from the 1890s. I just mean from and I don't I don't mean that you actually did it. Are you lying now that we actually were in Brooklyn and and our first car was my cranked engine?
SPEAKER_01Leslie, turn up your volume a little bit. Turn up your volume, please.
SPEAKER_00I can't you can't I just can't believe that you just told me remember when you had to crank up an engine.
SPEAKER_01I don't mean that we actually did it, I mean that we saw it on TV. We we had reference to an actual crank that was kept in the car and you had to push it in and and turn it. And maybe I saw that a few times in Jamaica. Maybe I'm not gonna say maybe, maybe that happened, perhaps. But um I was wondering how many young people would actually know what cranking means. Yeah. Um, so anyway, so um what you been watching? Anything interesting?
SPEAKER_00You know, I'm not much of a TV person, so I gotta say nothing. Uh I gotta say nothing. What I might get into is the the watcher, and I know I'm probably the last person um to get into the show because I think it it's you're not because I don't even know where it is.
SPEAKER_01I don't know where it is.
SPEAKER_00Oh, good. So you're the last. So there is a house in a town near me, and it's an actual it's from a live event, a real event, where a couple and their family purchased a home and there was some creepy, haunting, haunted things going on in this home. That's enough. And because and because in the film version they gave the actual address of the home, it became a security concern in this neighborhood for real, and they had to get police to station themselves outside of the now. Mind you, the people who the story is about have long been gone and all of this stuff, but it's a home vacant. So I do people live there? I think people live there now. Yeah, yeah, it's a real home, and people live there. Yeah, no, you know, I don't do scary movies. The thing is, the reason I'm just getting into it, as you know, I don't really like episodes because I just can't commit that type of uh time to something that's you know ongoing. I'll do a one and done, if anything, but except Jeopardy. Oh no, Jeopardy and Judge Judy. And Judge Judy. Those are just two I kept saying, and Judge Judy's all reruns, but oh my god, how meanness it it transcends time.
SPEAKER_01I'm telling you, Leslie will get me off the phone, and you know that that says something, right? Meud Jeopardy. Me for me to be chucked off the phone. Oh, you got three minutes before Jeopardy starts, you got two minutes before Judge Judy. It's it's um it's it's quite um telling, embarrassing, kind of, you know. Embarrassing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, no, but you there was this um documentary that you I mentioned in Bible study. Yeah, in Bible study.
SPEAKER_00I haven't seen it yet, but yeah, so I don't want to um say too too much about it, but I'm just gonna look at look up the title. Um it's called Contradiction. Blacks and the Bible. Um yeah. And the premise? The premise, as I've described to you, um, was that blacks are one of the as a group, one of the most spiritual and religious groups in America. And they contrasted their religiosity or their spirituality with um their economic state in the country, and um just in general, um, their standing in the country, and wondered if their faith was a hindrance to their progress in this country, uh, or was it sustaining them through difficulty? Oh, okay. Um, wow, it was it was pretty powerful. And you know, Ernest and I have had uh several conversations about it, and I'd like to take a look at it again because it's really um it's provocative.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, definitely provocative.
SPEAKER_00And while we he was very into it, and I kept looking at him because I didn't want him to be offended by any of it. So I was like, he's all right with it, he's all right with it. But um he he um he was very interested in it to the point where we were able to have a good discussion about it. So um I'd like to definitely on the list. I've been watching Let me tell you what else is on the list. What no, you tell me what you were watching, and then I'm gonna tell you what else is gonna be on the list.
SPEAKER_01Okay, okay. Um I've been watching the 1619 project, which I've seen parts of it before, but now being sick and um my brain not being sharp enough to to do a whole lot, I um watched, I didn't finish, um, but I watched uh several episodes of it, and it's it's basically the history of um enslaved Africans in the Americ in America. And the first uh ship that brought enslaved Africans uh to America was in 1619. And um and then it it it so it starts there but it goes fully into um the the the history of enslaved Africans in America, black Americans. And I love those types of you know, um uh the mix of um historical records and just proof upon proof upon proof of different things that are so um not only different but contradictory to a lot that we are taught in school. And um, you know, and then kind of following this group of people through time and um the music, all the influences and things like that. So I thoroughly enjoyed it. I was like thoroughly learned from it, and a lot of things um, you know, I've lived here for most of my life. Um, but I I understand that there are perspectives that um that um enslaved Africans who went to other countries, the Caribbean, um South America, Central America, and so on. Um there's a lot that we um that's not taught in our culture about um the things that um black Americans have endured. And so when we talk about this fully, I will talk through some of that and my perspectives on that as a as a Jamaican and also as an American, as a black American, I I feel very much that I am, um, because it's um you know it's uh it's just a perspective that I think would just add to um our audience's understanding of of how certain ideas come about. But but anyway, so your what is it called? The contra what's what's yours called? Can you say it again? Your the documentary that you recommend?
SPEAKER_00Look it up again. I know what you mean. I think the contradiction is what it is. It's called contradiction, blacks and the Bible.
SPEAKER_01Okay, okay. All right, so that will be maybe something we will um do uh a convergence of those two topics and have that as one of our podcasts. That would be cool.
SPEAKER_00When we speak about the 1619 project, what I was thinking of, and I want to um you to remind me, or I'll remind you to differentiate the language where I heard you um use the term enslaved Africans versus slaves. Um I've he I've heard a lot of talk about that uh of late, and um I'd like us to get into that as well.
SPEAKER_01It's yeah, so important, such an important distinction. Yesterday, or maybe the day before yesterday, I was listening to I'm sure it was NPR, and um someone who was being interviewed. Um she seemed to have she was she was talking about a um uh what do you call it? Um some uh I I'm I'm I'm losing my word, sorry. The fog, the fog is real. Um let's call it an installation about um Tony Morrison and um about her life, her her her her works, and um one of the th and she we heard Tony Morrison's voice through interviews and I didn't know but she narrated all of her audiobooks, which is just gonna make me run and get some of those um to hear her say yeah, you know, um speak those words with with the with the rhythm and and the the emphasis and things like that.
SPEAKER_00I think that's gonna be I was aware of that, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but she she talked about um black is beautiful, and it it it reminded me of the of of some of what you were talking about. Um it was in the kind of discussion around who from whom from whose perspective are we to speak, right? Because you know that there's been several interviews where she was challenged because she she writes about um black people, and that is central. They we are central to her stories, and so people are asking, oh, is it is that the only thing you're gonna write about, and and things like that, really rude questions, you know what I mean? Um and so she talked about Black is beautiful, which of course, you know, but that's that was her position. Of course we are. Like to whom do we have to say that? Who is who is who is who or what is causing us to assert that? It must be because people think that we are not, that we have to say that we are not black is beautiful, and so it's the same kind of idea that I'm talking about in in terms of um uh you know the how how we how we look at ourselves and our expectations of each other and things like that. But anyway, it just it it just um that it's probably yesterday that I heard her say that. Um so we'll talk about that more too when we have that discussion.
SPEAKER_00And just to jump on that a little bit, um there is something quote unquote education about the way that we've conquered some of the obstacles that have been put and continue to be put in front of us.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00How historically um black people have to show up better than their non-melanated c uh counterparts um in order to just compete on the same level. Yeah. So some people might call that magical. Uh, you know what I mean? Oh, sure. Um and and I don't want to be too flippant about it, but it's something almost like how black parents give their sons and daughters the talk. It's something that in our households we know about all the time, that we have to be better in almost every respect than others to get close to equal recognition for our efforts.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And it's just something that we suck up and say that's that's the way it is.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And and you know, all of that is true. I think what is also true is that it we put pressure upon ourselves outside of outside of that societal pressure that that we have. Um and with you know, there are different things that we've had to do to get to where we are now, but I think we're we're at a place now where, for example, we understand mental health, and we understand, you know, that to uh continually try or feel the need to be super people affects our mental health. It may affect the way that we parent, right? The way that we are um, you know, may be very dogmatic in how we tell our children they are to behave because of our fears or because we want them to be successful so they have to work three times as hard. There is um, you know, there there's a there is a for sure, yeah. You know, there is a what is it? There's a penalty. There's there's an effect of that, uh, that truth that is what I've wanted to um talk about because it's that's a part that's that's not often talked about, you know.
SPEAKER_00I think of it like it's a tax on our psyche, exactly, it's a tax on our emotion, exactly well being, right? But it's also a tax on our physical well-being. Account for disparities. I was looking at the cup, of course I do. That was our trip to Cuba in 2016. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Sorry to interrupt. I just noticed it that it was showing up on the camera. Uh-huh. But uh, yeah. Another good topic to get into. Respectability politics. That was that was on our list from um season one that we didn't get to. So we have to present and show up in public spaces. Yep. Yep. And and and I think um, you know, in in what ways have we won the fight so that we don't have to keep doing that? And in what ways are we continuing to hold on to those things as if no progress has been made? It's that that whole that whole piece piece of it too, you know, and and in what way are we going to again as as for our young folks, right? Um, how are we preparing them for what's next if we're still kind of holding them in this, this is what we had to do to get here. Well, now we're here. How are we giving them freedom to move into the next is um you know, is a part of what I'm thinking about in that too. What I see, yeah, yeah, oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_00So many things, so many things, so many things. But I was listening to the radio. You see, I'm not a television watcher, but I listen to talk radio all day long. There has there is this issue that has come up. It might have originated in TikTok discussions or videos or whatever. I'm not even a TikTok person. How some celebrities are gender bending, um wearing um ambiguous clothing, and what they're I'm I I can't think of the term that's being used, but um there it's almost as though they're LGBTQ appropriations. So in other words, they are um people like Harry Styles um who are not asserting their sexuality, but rather keeping their sexualities as a as an unknown, perhaps to attract um more listeners or fans or things like that. And they were having a discussion. And have you heard the term? No, no, I haven't. I don't, I don't, I don't remember the term. It might come up at another time. But one person called in and he said something interesting. He said, you know, I've been an LG, I'm a 70-year-old man, and I've been an LGBTQ activist for 45 years. And I fought for the right for XYZ, and um same-sex marriage was not even something we thought of to fight for when I started uh my activism. So, how dare these younger people or these actors or celebrities try to live off of the backs of our hard work when they haven't put the time in? And a counter to that argument was that isn't that what progress is about? That we that activists from the past actually fight for the right, that the future generations no longer have to have the same fights and the same activism, and can in fact live off the backs of our hard work. Our young people today should not have to fight for the same civil rights as and Malcolm did 60 years ago. You know, so it's it's very interesting, you know, it can go in two different ways. So um when what what you said um about is it time to relax these um warnings we give our children or um respectability pro uh politics that we discuss? Don't go out like that and make sure you don't act like this in public, lest someone think that whatever the case may be, right? Is there a is there a uh uh still a place for it? Yeah, you know, or is it time for us to release the way that we think about things?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it's it's um you know, there it ever all of these things are in transition, right? Because it wasn't that long ago where um you know you you couldn't expect to go to work with locks. Um especially men, I would say, because with women, you know, you can pin it back or whatever, but um and I I know of a particular case where a colleague of mine, a former colleague of mine, was told by her black manager she was considering um going natural and from from wearing weaves um and straight straight hair. And he advised her not to do that because um it would affect her promotions and it would affect people who people's um judgment of her and things like that.
SPEAKER_00And he was looking out for her well-being.
SPEAKER_01Um uh maybe, or he was stuck in his in his place, you know. That may be that may be how he would have judged her, but it may not have been. Right, right.
SPEAKER_00So he's advising her as someone who feels that way or whatever, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. So it's um there's still, you know, and um I guess it's just the nature of the beast. But I I love that we oftentimes come at these things um from different perspectives. Um, and even if we don't, we're willing to to have to unearth kind of new ways of of of looking at this stuff, you know what I mean? Which um I really love the way that we interact that way. It's just it's never just on the surface, it's always like, ooh, let's go down deep, let's dig it up, let's dig up the dirt.
SPEAKER_00That's how we do, but not everybody wants to dig a little deeper and go to the next level. I know, I know, as we know. That's true. Um, so I that's why there are only two black boomer besties from Brooklyn, not four or eight.
SPEAKER_01We're not going to kind of come to you in a as we would say in Jamaica, in a faky-fakey way. Um we're gonna um we're going to just be our best. It was important for us to start back up as we mentioned at the beginning. This podcast is is good for us too. You know, we we we get a lot of um energy from doing this, even though we continue to have our bestie relationship outside of the podcast. This forum, this way of us um connecting with with you all is really important. And we're using it, we're using it to um get back into a groove and um kind of help us through some um some difficulties that that we've been experiencing. And so yeah, we we just want to remind you that this is a reciprocal situation going on here. Um we give, we receive, and we we're hoping that by bringing this um video as well as audio, it's just gonna lead to even more connection with with you all. And um that um we're we're we're in it. I don't I don't let's I don't think I'm gonna I I don't like this off-season business. I j I gotta, I don't like it. Let's just never never take a break. I don't think we we can have seasons, but there ain't gonna be no big gap in the same no, no, no, no, no. I it just we tried a thing, didn't work, won't do it again.
unknownOkay, okay.
SPEAKER_01Something you'll get something um on a regular basis, but we're happy to be back. Um, we uh have some really great um programming lined up, and um yeah, so let's call this a wrap. Leslie, I can't believe you have this TV. You did it the whole. Okay, all right.
SPEAKER_00That's gonna be taking a fair move. She's she's she's cutting me off for joining us.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for joining us in another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Program. Bye.
