Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
This is what the world needs now: two free-thinking “seasoned” Black women speaking their truth and inspiring others to do the same. Shaped by 45 years of friendship that began at the prestigious Brooklyn Technical High School through the Ivy League, medical school, marriages, divorces, triumphs, parenting queer children, life-threatening illness and many many amazing adventures. Each week, besties Leslie Osei-Tutu and Angella Fraser will push against boundaries in love, culture, careers, faith, politics and out-dated assumptions about women of a certain age. Remember, you’re never too old to change your mind…or your hair! (but more on that later :-)All views are our own and do not reflect the views of our institution/company. Information provided is not intended to serve as medical advice.
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
Leaving A Financial Legacy Part 2
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Because it’s the start of the gift giving season, the Besties have decided to give you a priceless gift with Part 2 of the 2 part series with Estate Planning Attorney Karl Chen. In fact, they see it more as a love gift to your families. Angella and Leslie continue their conversation with Karl who offers clear and candid information on how to jumpstart creating your “Generational Wealth Blueprint”.
From this episode you’ll understand why having a clear plan is vital and what items should be included in everyone's toolkit. So get out your pen and paper, get comfortable and be ready to take control of your family legacy. You’re welcome.
This episode and all previous episodes are available on The Besties’ YouTube. Please join our Besties Quad Squad as a Patreon subscriber at the $5 or $10 monthly level. You'll receive exclusive behind-the-scenes content.
Visit Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn website for behind-the-scenes extras.
Hi there. This week the besties are bringing you part two of our interview with our favorite estate planner, Carl Chen.
SPEAKER_04And I decided to take a package and open up my own practice in 2011.
unknownIncredible.
SPEAKER_00I know that I'm going to be convicted. Leslie, not so much, because Leslie, you know, Leslie has it all on lock. Me not so much. So I'm going to be listening, and a lot of my questions are going to be. I'm going to pretend that I'm asking for our audience, but I'm actually asking for myself, but you'll never know the difference.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, so how wait, before you do that, Paul, could you just tell us a little bit about your practice?
SPEAKER_04Sure. Uh it's an estate planning business succession practice. My goal really is to educate, inspire, and empower people to understand how to um enjoy life as well as leave a legacy. And helping folks, I call it a generational wealth blueprint.
SPEAKER_01Oh, wow. Oh, creating a plan. That feels so good. Yes, it does.
SPEAKER_04I need to write that down. Generational wealth blueprint.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So this way, um it guides our legacy of not having to start all over again.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
SPEAKER_04So oftentimes what we find, or what I've found, well, one, this is a fact. The Brookings Institute did a survey. 400 of the richest billionaires own more, um have more wealth than the entire black population in the United States. 400 of the richest billionaires have more wealth than 10 million black households in the United States. If your average household is three, that's 30 million black folks. Yes. Okay. Part of it is here in this country. In this country, we've had we had 100 years of Jim Crow, 1863 to 1963. 1963.
SPEAKER_001963.
SPEAKER_04Right. Because 1964 is when the Civil Rights Act.
SPEAKER_00Sure, exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_04So Jim Crow, for audience that wanna kind of understand it, it's legal discrimination. You black person drink hair. You black person cannot buy hair.
SPEAKER_01You black person cannot attain type of education. Until 1963, I was here in 1963.
SPEAKER_04Right. So 1964, the Civil Rights Act, you know, Johnson signs it, of course, after Kennedy is assassinated. There's a whole lot of who knows, maybe guilt. I don't know. I was hardly a, you know, I wasn't even a toddler at that point.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But um so next year marks 60 years of which black people in this country um and and really to be honest with you, I mean, it hasn't really been until the 70s where we started to realize change. I mean, you ladies were what maybe the fifth, sixth class to be of women protect of women.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's true. 76. No, I think we were in the fourth class. I think they started women in 72 when we got there in 76. Right. Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04Isn't that something? So when you think of that, when you think of the dynamics of opportunities, you think about uh, I mean, I think about when my mom wanted to go to move to Starrett City at the time because we lived in we lived at Fairfield Towers over over by community was changing and everything else. She wanted to move to Starrett City. They told her we've met our quota.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04Right?
SPEAKER_00That's it. Yeah, people think that when the laws change, it just immediately, you know, the you know, all of the switch at everyone. We're post-racial now.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, post-racial. And this is in the 70s.
SPEAKER_00Damn. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So when you take that into consideration, you take into consideration many of us are first, second generation of us acquiring wealth.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And more importantly, we are the richest generation of black people in this country. We are.
SPEAKER_00We are. The boomers are, you mean?
SPEAKER_04The boomers, the this, yes.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_04Right. Um, there's assets people have uh vacation homes, have um um homes themselves. Yeah, and and and now trying to figure out how to transition it, but oftentimes they they they may listen to Susie Orman or some other person that gives them some guidance and advice, but it may not necessarily be suitable for the framework of their family, yeah, yeah. Right. And so I spend a lot of time educating, holding hands, and helping people through the process because it is a process. I mean, I go, I went to you know, I went to law school, I went to college and everything else, and to this day I continue to educate and learn my practice because it is always evolving. Laws are always changing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um, I'm involved as a as a as a um uh chair of a subcommittee for my um state bar association estate and trust section. And one of the things I'm fighting for, I'm like maybe the fourth chair on this, is changing the inheritance law in Maryland. Because Maryland is one of the few states that has an inheritance tax. So if you want to give to your niece, nephew, or you're you're receiving from your uncle, or you're giving to your cousin or friend, there's gonna be a 10% tax.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I thought that that was one way to transfer without such things, but there's still four states that are um yeah, there's a couple of states, but yeah, those would be the conditions in Maryland, like Pennsylvania has an inheritance stance, we have an inheritance stance, a couple other states. So if you can imagine what happens, let's say um a family is house rich but cash poor.
SPEAKER_03Sure.
SPEAKER_04Right? They have home that has equity, they want to give it to and less and let and if you are without child, you're penalized because now you're giving it to your niece, nephew, cousin, maybe you know, right?
SPEAKER_01Your direct descendant.
SPEAKER_04Because you don't have any, right?
SPEAKER_01Right?
SPEAKER_04I'm leaning in now. So so now in Maryland, you're penalized because of that. Because if you give your home, you pass, and you're gonna give it to your niece and nephew, they have to pay 10% tax based on the assessed value of that house.
SPEAKER_01Now, if you're they don't have cash, right?
SPEAKER_04So what ends up cash?
SPEAKER_01They have to sell the home and right, or take a loan, or there's the loss.
SPEAKER_04There's the loss.
SPEAKER_01Wow. Loss of home ownership and any future equity and ownership rights.
SPEAKER_04Exactly.
SPEAKER_01We see that over and over and over. I mean, even in states that don't have the inheritance tax, we see the problem with property taxes. Right. And you know, there's so many ways to lose a home that you've inherited. Right.
SPEAKER_04And as we have seen a home is an excellent way of coming into the middle class and staying there or moving up beyond that.
SPEAKER_01Or pulling up your bootstraps, as they say. Right.
SPEAKER_04So home ownership gives a lot of opportunities for, you know, you buy a home, you move, you sell it, you go to another home in a different area, and you sell it. And and perhaps all of that also ties into opportunities for your children and things of that sort, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So, so um, that and seeing a lot of times people come into me um because a loved one gets sick, incapacitated, and it's too late. They don't have a power of attorney, they don't have a healthcare power of attorney. And so now what has happened? All of what I'm learning with you is things that create conflict in court. Right?
SPEAKER_01And within families, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, family. I mean, it's so you know, I I'm I'm I encourage and I've you know my clients to um really be ahead of the curve and and make sure that they take steps to minimize conflict. And we do that sometimes, a lot of times through trusts, um, doing providing revocable living trusts or um doing some form of estate planning. So what is estate planning? Really, it's about um fulfilling the promise that you made to your loved one that you handled everything.
SPEAKER_01Right. I look at it as like a love gift to your it is a love gift, yeah. Because I've heard stories about the opposite when these things are not done.
SPEAKER_04When they're not done, it it does look when you're losing a loved one, right? You're grieving.
SPEAKER_02Yes, right.
SPEAKER_04I mean, at that time you're dealing with going to a funeral home, and they're already telling you, and everything is about money, right? It's gonna cost this. Well, if you want that kind of cask, it's gonna be this. And then you're saying in the back of your mind, man, I don't want them just in a pine box, they're worth a little bit more than that, blah, blah, blah. And you're grieving and you're trying to figure it out. In the meantime, um, you're getting letters from the mortgage company and other people. Sorry about your loss. However, there's this debt and obligation, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then there's all this stuff that is coming in. And then if you have the perfect family where nobody is worried about, well, is there any money?
SPEAKER_01Or we have enough, we don't need anything.
SPEAKER_04Oh no, I uh oh, fine. She left you the money, that's fine.
SPEAKER_01I you know that's my family.
SPEAKER_04Perfect, right? So so now you have conflict because what happens in a lot of these situations is that people, well, my client base is 99% African American, black people from various, whether they're they're originally here or they're from other countries, whatever, but they're people of color. And the common thing is sometimes that we find, and I can only speak for the people that I've serviced and I help, is that sometimes there's a challenge with trustworthiness and a view of transparency, which leaves people to question and ponder what is what is what's going on, are they hiding something or whatever?
SPEAKER_01Exactly, and to hide things and not to be completely honest and sure.
SPEAKER_04And and I get calls often from a lot of different perspective folks that give me a scenario of my my sister, she was named personal representative of the will, and she's not sharing with me what's in the will and this and that and the other. And I tell them, look, if that's the case, before you decide you want to hire a lawyer to sue your sister so you could get the money, I want you to understand a couple things. One, uh, it's a no-win for you and your sister when you start hiring lawyers because we get paid out of those assets.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And and the longer it takes, the more we get out of those ass.
SPEAKER_00So it's shrinking. What you're fighting for is shrinking. Sure.
SPEAKER_01It's yeah, yeah. It behooves you to get together, settle, and make come to a decision.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, come to an agreement. And if you're certain all of these things, you could go to the courthouse, you can go online. Most states have it, where you could look at a proceeding online because probate, which is typically what they're discussing and and arguing about, can be um any of the documents that are filed are public filings. Could probate is a public process.
SPEAKER_01Could you just briefly just say what probate is, please?
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So a funny way of thinking it, uh thinking of it, is that your creditors and beneficiaries file a lawsuit in your name to get your stuff. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Wow. Okay.
SPEAKER_04Right? Okay. In the estate of Carl Chen, beneficiaries and creditors are looking to get my stuff.
SPEAKER_01And there's a period of time that the estate is in probate to give everybody a chance to go over your assets and whatever and to try to uh litigate what's due. Okay.
SPEAKER_04So that period of time, um, some some probated estates, meaning and and I want to make it clear though, Leslie, that a probated estate includes any estate in which there is a will or where there's no will. Okay, a last will and testament or no will, no last will and testament.
SPEAKER_01I see. I always thought that having a will allows you to avoid probate.
SPEAKER_04No, not at all. It does, it just allows for um how you want things distributed.
SPEAKER_02I see.
SPEAKER_04Right? Otherwise, if you didn't have a will, then your particular state has established what the process would be for distributing those assets.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_04Okay. So um, so probate, and and there's ways to avoid it, you know, people can set bez uh beneficiary designations, right?
SPEAKER_00So that would that alone would um would um avoid probate. Yeah, just that having beneficiaries, yeah.
SPEAKER_04So think of it like this, right? So let's say, for instance, um you just your assets included a life insurance policy and a bank account, and you sold your primary home and you converted it all to cash and and your personal items, right? The stuff that you you have, right? The crap you've amassed. Yeah, I mean the stuff that we have, right? Um, it wouldn't necessarily avoid probate, and it all depends on the state. But typically, if you have a bank account and you've identified, and first I gotta say, um, this is informational purposes, it's not legal advice, it's not you shouldn't rely on it as legal advice um because everybody no one has retained me as their lawyer.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_04Um also um every state is different, but I certainly recommend that people retain counsel in the state in which they're in who specializes in estate planning. Very important, right?
SPEAKER_01Because it's gonna ask you, could I, with my residence in New Jersey, hire you to put my estate plan together because you're in a different state?
SPEAKER_04I'm only licensed in Maryland and the District of Columbia.
SPEAKER_01So that means legally no, or would you be able to give me advice?
SPEAKER_04Okay, I could not, I would be um engaging in the unauthorized practice of law in the state of New York.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I understand.
SPEAKER_04Yep.
SPEAKER_01So an a state plan has to be put together by an attorney.
SPEAKER_04Uh no, it does not. But if an attorney is is is putting one together together, he needs to be they need to be licensed in that because you're relying that that person understands the laws of that state.
SPEAKER_01That state got it, got it. Oh, this is so good.
SPEAKER_04Right. So as an example, through a probate process, if you um if you left a to avoid some of that, if you had a uh check-in account, savings account, and you know, with most of your savings personal accounts, you can leave um your assets to a beneficiary through a pod designation, paid on debt. Right? So like life insurance, you have a beneficiary, right? Um, your bank account, you can say, hey, you know, paid on death. I want Carl Chen to get it all. Remember that. I want Carl Chen to get it all.
SPEAKER_01Right. And if I forget it, we got it recorded. So remember.
SPEAKER_00But let me tell you a personal story on how important that is because um my mother did not have that. And we are still trying to get the little coins that she had in um how many years? It's been a long time. And you know, I I try and then I stop because the it's it's a lot of um, you have to go to a courthouse. It's I don't know whether things are any different now because it's been a long time. I still get the um I still get the uh bank statements. Um but yeah, you can't even with a debt certificate, you you can't do it. It's it's it's a court filing and some other hoops that you have to go through. So I'd make sure to to have done that for for my accounts.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so one of the things also um that you may want to consider, um you still may have to get probate letters of administration, which is a court order from the court saying the person who is the personal representative, right, who is the executor personal representative, has the authority to get access to these accounts. If you do a search of your mom's name or any person's name, there may come up funds that are unclaimed because what happens is retirement accounts or any other kind of accounts in which that wasn't claimed after three years or five years or what have you goes into this fund. And at that point, at least you know, okay, there's a couple of accounts here, and they'll tell you like it's over $50 or it's over $100. They don't tell you the exact amount. And that's how people can, you know, get access to those accounts, but you still may need whether it's a death certificate, depends on the state, or a filing in the court, like reopening up a probate estate to get those letters to get those assets.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And and you know, it gets even crazier when um someone who is named in a will, let's say, has passed away as a beneficiary because then it goes to their descendants.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_04This is where it gets even crazier for a lot of people who have owned homes, right? So let's say in the South, and let's say we're in South Carolina, and let's say this is a family home, this has been a home that's been in the family since 1910. And there really wasn't a probate done. It really wasn't anything, it was just that it was mama's house, and after mama passed, and uncle stayed there, and cousins stayed there, and we all know, and then somehow or another, it was somebody else who's staying there, but it's family.
SPEAKER_01Yes, I'm actually in that situation right now, all right.
SPEAKER_04And then somebody decides I'm gonna sell the house. Well, then when the title comes, it's gonna be like, Well, we don't have anything that shows you own this house. The last person that owned this house was Mary Smith. Do you know her? Oh, yeah, that was my great grandfather.
SPEAKER_01Great-great grandfather.
SPEAKER_04Right. Yes. So now you have to do like a family tree.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_04Right? This is why planning is so important.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And next thing you know, as you can only imagine imagine, if you have five generations. Coming in now, three to five generations?
SPEAKER_01Hundreds of people.
SPEAKER_04Right. Owning one one hundredth. I own one two two seventy-five fifths of a of a property.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_04Now you gotta have a deed to transfer it with all of these people agreeing to the transfer of those assets.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04It's a mess.
SPEAKER_00I just saw um a documentary. Um I think it's called Sugarloaf Lane or something like that. I'll put it in the episode notes, but um it what you just said is what happened. Um, the people who lived on the land uh stayed on the land. Um and a cousin somewhere in another state claimed to have ownership of the land and sold it to a big developer, and the court ruled in the developer's favor, even though these people never left the land and ordered them to get off the land, and the two brothers who remained because all they wanted was the waterfront, right? Because the land went back, but it had a waterfront, and the two brothers who lived on the waterfront side refused to leave, and you know they put them in jail for 10 years. Wow.
SPEAKER_01Wow, wow, they put them in jail for that on their family land, yes.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's that's crazy.
SPEAKER_00This stuff, this stuff gets really, really, really serious. You think that just being in place is going to protect you from stuff, and and it and it doesn't.
SPEAKER_04Nope.
SPEAKER_00So you're gonna have to tell us, Carl, like, I know you're not giving le legal advice, but if if we could have a set of like, if you do nothing else, comma, do this. Yep. Okay, what would those things be? For people of a certain age like us.
SPEAKER_01And it doesn't matter and and listen, and I'm gonna say another thing before I forget, Ange. Carl, I'm inviting you to come back because I'd also want, in addition to this conversation, we really need to have a part two about the specific documents that people in other states, not Maryland, um should seek out and why and things like that. It's really important. Obviously, the people who are in Maryland, you'll be able to tell them all about it, but um, because they are all coming to you. But um, but yeah, and so yeah, go ahead, Carl.
SPEAKER_04So, so this the the documents are the same, they just may be named differently in different states. Okay, but they're the same thing, you know. When you have a chair and it has four legs, it has four legs, right? Um, we typically try not to have three-legged chairs, although you could sit in a three-legged chair or two-legged chair. It all depends on how the legs are set.
SPEAKER_02And your balance, right?
SPEAKER_04And your balance, right? So I like five-legged chairs, right? One in the center and then four corners, and that's how I like to do a trust planning. I mean a state planning. So number one document, I think, from personally, my opinion is a durable power of attorney.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_04And and and this doesn't matter about your age because you see, think of when you have children and they turn 18 and they go off to college or they do whatever it is. At that point, if something happens to them, you really don't have any, they're an adult. And if they become sick or disabled, you can't just go and access certain types of things on their behalf.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow, bank accounts, right? Because they're medical records, medical records, as you know, you gotta have HIPAA release or something, yeah, yeah, right?
SPEAKER_04So yeah, so I say adorable power of attorney. Why? Because you are still alive, right? And you are still living. And if we can avoid you from having your loved one or the person who you feel is responsible enough and could be the person that would take care of your affairs, avoid court, it's gonna save a tremendous amount of money in order to do that, a lot of headaches. Yeah, it's gonna save a lot of that.
SPEAKER_00So everyone should have a durable power of attorney.
SPEAKER_04Everyone should have a durable power of attorney.
SPEAKER_00That means everybody, okay, got it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that it not some. Everybody, even not some, yeah, not just my mom.
SPEAKER_00Got it.
SPEAKER_04Then next is a medical power of attorney.
SPEAKER_00Okay, all right.
SPEAKER_04So, in the event that that person can act as your healthcare agent and things of that sort, and I also recommend it for people who have minor age children that that parent sets out a medical power of attorney for a minor in the event someone else has to take them to um to a hospital. And it's let's say they they're spending the time with grandma, yeah, and they get yes, right? So now grandma has to figure out and the doctors, well, what how what authority does she have to make medical decisions? Does she?
SPEAKER_01We don't think about stuff like that. Although I did get that for my nephew when he was here with me for the week, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, because you're thinking about that, yeah, right, and though so medical power of attorney, first durable power of attorney to handle your finance real estate. And let me just say this COVID had a lot to do with really creating more awareness because when people got intubated, I had calls from uh I remember a lady calling, her husband got intubated, they were trying to sell their home, they were to post the close or sell their home, closing, selling their home the following day. She wanted to get a power of attorney. There's no way you're getting a power of attorney because your husband has to sign it, has to be of his right state of mind to sign and give away his power.
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh. So you got to do it while they're lucid and competent.
SPEAKER_04That's the only way. If a person starts with dementia or something another, yeah, maybe the early stages, as long as they're still aware of what's going on. But once they lose after that, it's over.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's it's over.
SPEAKER_04You can't legally get the document from you have to go through a guardianship or conservatorship at that time.
SPEAKER_01This is blowing my mind. Okay, okay, durable and medical. The next thing we're we're running out of time. I'm more wasted time messing.
SPEAKER_04Okay, hippa hippa release.
SPEAKER_01Okay, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, advanced directive. Instead of you, instead of your loved ones deciding whether or not to end life, you choose what you want done when it's either imminent, uh like death is imminent, vegetative state, end stage condition, right? Got it. Then a will.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_04I say beneficiary designations, make sure those are up to date and current, up to date on your deeds and stuff like that. Generational wealth is acquired through a trust because at that point, that's the title there. You don't have to worry about it being spent off or anything else. You can you can control exactly how it should end up.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Writing that down to my mind is blown.
SPEAKER_00Man, this is this is this is life-saving information here. It really is. Sanity saving. You know, you can you can put the stuff to at ease. You don't have to carry the the burden around worrying. Right. Got it.
SPEAKER_01Wow. Um I got work to do. I got work to do. You and me both. I got work to do.
SPEAKER_00You and me both. Um uh Carl, can you I know we're almost out of time. Um, what is the most satisfying aspect of of your work?
SPEAKER_04Oh wow. Watching people sign off on these documents and getting a sense of relief and knowing that um a child is protected, that um loved ones down the road are going to be taken care of, that my client has a plan in place in the event they become sick or disabled, and the fact that I know I am helping people create generational wealth. That's a beautiful and and even more satisfying because I came from a corporate background and stuff like that, and I'm in Prince George's County, which is probably one of the richest counties in America, um, composed of a majority black uh um community. And um, that's even nice. I've I I've helped single moms, I've helped uh, you know, wealthy clients, but every single person, even the wealthy clients started, you know, with some, you know, with a very modest start.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04And so um to help them continue on and knowing that I'm that children are I've had clients bring their their sons, their daughters who are like 20 years old to sit through a session and I'm in there with them to eight at night, eight thirty at night, and sitting down with my wife's and and teaching them. Yeah, that's fulfilling. That's a beautiful I love that.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much. We appreciate that's like a mic drop. Yeah, we appreciate what you do for the culture, for you know, I know you you'll serve anyone, but um, I think it's really important because there's such a lack of information in our community and the the impact of not having these things are so devastating because it took so long to acquire, right? It's just like when I think about just the when um I'm going on a little tributary, just a little one. When you think about places where um things were robbed from us, you know, like the in in Wilmington, North Carolina, in Rosewood, and all of these places, Manhattan Beach now, you know, all of these places where things were taken from us, it takes such a long time to recover from loss. And so to know that there is a way to protect us now so that it continues um as a legacy, I think it's yeah, it's it's it's amazing. We're grateful for you and for your friendship.
SPEAKER_04The one final thing I do want to say is that oh, same here.
SPEAKER_02I appreciate you guys. It's like seeing you as a grown-up.
SPEAKER_04I know I I'm thankful for Facebook, for Facebook and things like that to keep us in tune because you know, I mean, I think the last time I saw you guys was I mean in person, yeah. Uh was at the last reunion in 30, I think our 30th.
SPEAKER_00It was later than that.
SPEAKER_04No, no.
SPEAKER_00Well, what's the last one he was at?
SPEAKER_04Because we were we were the yeah, I did the one, the last one that I saw you guys at may have been 35th on the boat.
SPEAKER_00That was 2010. That was 30th. Our boat or or text boat? Our boat.
SPEAKER_04Our boat.
SPEAKER_00It was it was I think it was the 30th. I think I have some pictures with you actually. Yeah, that was the 30th. Put it up on our Facebook Patreon.
SPEAKER_04We'll put it on Patreon, and then you know 2020 just was jacked up all together.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. We were all ready, we were all ready, and then a week before we had to shut it down, and then and then our DJs, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, our DJ guys.
SPEAKER_04Then Jonathan, yeah, you know, I mean, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So we lost a lot. We lost 18.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Oh, that's right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we lost, um, we lost quite a bit. It's a period of time that I'll never forget. Remember, I never stopped working, so I oh yeah, you you were in front line. I continued working in the ICU, and I was putting the people on ventilators and turning them in different, it was just a horrific time, and I thank God that we've all made it. You know, yeah. And here we are. Well, thank you. I gotta close.
SPEAKER_04Thank you. All right, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01Another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
