Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
This is what the world needs now: two free-thinking “seasoned” Black women speaking their truth and inspiring others to do the same. Shaped by 45 years of friendship that began at the prestigious Brooklyn Technical High School through the Ivy League, medical school, marriages, divorces, triumphs, parenting queer children, life-threatening illness and many many amazing adventures. Each week, besties Leslie Osei-Tutu and Angella Fraser will push against boundaries in love, culture, careers, faith, politics and out-dated assumptions about women of a certain age. Remember, you’re never too old to change your mind…or your hair! (but more on that later :-)All views are our own and do not reflect the views of our institution/company. Information provided is not intended to serve as medical advice.
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
Organizing and Decluttering: A Prescription for a More Joyful Life with Gayle L. Walker
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In this episode, Angella and Leslie introduce you to former postpartum doula, Gayle L. Walker, the powerhouse behind the company Life Doula, LLC. Life Doula is Gayle’s brainchild that emerged after the convergence of several formidable life experiences: retiring as a nurse for the US Navy, supporting a close friend and her family after they welcomed their first child and caring for caregivers faced with making sense of (and room for) their parents’ belongings.
While she was serving in these situations, Gayle noted the emergence of a common theme: effective organization and decluttering created space- mentally, emotionally, and physically.
Gayle shares practical strategies and emotional insights about downsizing and letting go of possessions, drawing from personal anecdotes like the challenge of parting with her decades old military uniforms.
Tune in to The Besties this week and learn how to create space for joy and order in your own life and discover the freedom that comes with a more organized, purposeful living environment.
This episode and all previous episodes are available on YouTube. Please join our Besties Quad Squad as a Patreon subscriber at the $5 or $10 monthly level. You'll receive exclusive behind-the-scenes content.
Visit Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn website for behind-the-scenes extras.
Hey Ange, hey Les, how are you Double thumbs up?
Speaker 2Oh, okay, Actually that was only one Double thumbs up.
Speaker 1Oh my gosh, I didn't do that intentionally, but that's because the program just felt my spirit and my happiness and all of that. That's why it gave me the fanfare Okay, okay, you're looking kind of good in your. Is that um creamsicle, almost lipstick?
Speaker 2yeah brick, brick it's. Um, it's a little more red than it comes across, which is which is good, but I wanted to go a little orangey for my west coast, my time in the West Coast, and so, okay, it's working for you. It's a nice vibe. Appreciate it.
Speaker 1Well, folks, welcome to another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn. Brooklyn, it's special guest time, so that means I start doing my happy dance. So that means I start doing my happy dance. All right, you guys will be dancing when you hear about this lady that I'm about to introduce, because you're going to say you know what, I need her in my life. Because that's what I said, and you know, you guys know how I am, I'm kind of anal, but I need this lady in my life. So let me just tell you about Gail L Walker, all right, and you want toail L Walker? All right.
Speaker 2Angie, you want to jump in. What are you going to say? Thank you, thank you. I just want to say how Gail and I met, just really briefly, and you know, when you're in spaces where you feel energetically drawn to someone, it is so important for you to act on that. Sometimes it's not, you know, the moment doesn't lend itself to that, but at some other point, like, don't just think that it's, oh, you know, some kind of random thing, act on it, because that's how this right now came to happen.
Speaker 1So I love that you said that, Ange, because so many times we get not intimidated but we think like, ah, it's nothing or whatever. But I also think that the universe sets us up and puts us in contact with people so that it gives us opportunities to step up. Yep, absolutely so you go ahead because I really want to introduce her, so okay, okay, okay it's going to be quick.
Speaker 2So, um, you guys know that, uh, I went to a um, an event convention in puerto rico in january, in January, and it was just this amazing group of primarily black and brown and underrepresented groups of women and they had these sessions called brain dates, where anyone who was there could offer their special sauce. I'd like to call it in a session, right, so you could go into this app and you could say what is it that you wanted to offer and how many people. I think the max was five. And then there were breaks in the convention where you could go and and sign up for a brain date. So I did a brain date on.
Speaker 2You know, what I do is do my morning writing. So I did a brain date on that and I called it, I called it, I called it and I just lost it. Anyway, it was about kind of seeking peace and answers through a daily writing practice. Gail came to that session and she got what I was talking about. She really it really clicked for her and of course, we exchange all the niceties, whatever, and we talked and then, gail, I think that I followed up with you, just kind of checking in Was it me or was it you? I don't even remember.
Speaker 3Guys, I think I was chasing after you and then I was telling everybody about our brain day and then I was telling everybody about our brain date and then I found you.
Speaker 2I looked back in the app, found you and said hey, remember me so can I tell people wait a minute, almost done, and then so we're kind of like Leslie, don't get Leslie, I'm telling you don't. So we're kind of like business besties, gail and I, it's OK.
Speaker 1I accept that because you know I have a barrier as to I don't even know half of your businesses. I can't make sense to me, so go ahead.
Speaker 2So so, yeah, so we'll talk a little bit more about about that and the ways that we we have been talking about partnering on the business front. So, with that, I'm going to let Leslie do the formal.
Speaker 1And then I, at some point in this podcast, will tell you what Gail and I have in common. We have several things in common. Okay, no jealousy, no shade, just telling you. So anyway, Gail L l walker, a dynamic force hailing from georgia's vibrant atlanta metropolitan area and rooted in north northern california's sunny spirit, is the powerhouse behind life doula. Though she proudly calls herself a California girl at heart, Gail's foundation is deeply ingrained in the rich traditions of the South, thanks to her parents' background from Alabama and North Carolina. I'm just going to jump to one other important area. Life Doula, Gail's brainchild, emerged from her belief that women are phenomenal beings, capable of birthing not just children, but ideas, businesses and better versions of themselves. Recognizing that no one should navigate these life changes alone navigate these life changes alone Life Doula became the modern day village, offering unparalleled support during pivotal transitions. And at that I'm going to introduce you to Gail L Walker. Hi, Gail, Welcome.
Speaker 3Thank you, that's so lovely.
Speaker 2Welcome, gail, so she left some parts out and I would like you to talk about them, you know, instead of kind of just the scripted Like how the life in on the West Coast, East Coast, what got you like, yeah, talk about that and a little family background yeah well, first I want to say thank you so much for having me.
Finding Capacity as a Life Doula
Speaker 3I'm so excited to be here. I will share. I lived in brooklyn for about four years. I was a senior in the navy. I lived in fort green when fort green still fort green okay, that's where our high school was, right in Fort Greene.
Speaker 2That's where we met.
Speaker 3So there's a little Brooklyn in me. That's in bio, but I just wanted to go ahead but yeah, so I left out quite a bit.
Speaker 1Military service, yeah. Nursing, training, health care, all the things. All the things bring it to us.
Speaker 3So I was born in Chicago. That's where my parents grew up. We moved to California. I grew up in California and then in high school, my family, we moved south. We moved to Atlanta Okay, huge transition point if you can imagine moving to Atlanta, but both have served me well and grew up in a military family. My dad was in the military. I tease and share with people.
Speaker 3I've been in the military since I was two, before I joined the military, before I became a nurse, before I joined the military, before I became a nurse. But the you know we could talk about all of these things. But the thing that's really exciting about what I do, it is a perfect blend of all of my experiences working at a nurse corps officer, the leadership, the clinical training, growing up in a very structured, conservative home environment where I had to learn all these life skills and become independent. The jobs that I had in the Navy, working as a recruiter in New York City, doing leadership and training development in Newport, rhode Island, in addition to the clinical work that I did. All of these experiences have created this perfect blend and I landed in this place really a spirit-filled place, really a spirit filled place, looking for, seeking what is my purpose. After doing 21 years in the Navy, I was like you know, I can do a lot of things, and I think a lot of women are like I could do almost anything. Yeah, I'm going to do the thing, and I did what the thing would be.
Speaker 3So I took a year off after retiring from the Navy and during that sabbatical, a friend of mine had a baby and she needed help. And this was a baby we had dreamed of. This is a baby we had talked about over happy hour. Yeah, we manifested this baby. This is our baby. And she says you know what? I will come out and help your family. I will come out and help you and your husband. I truly am not doing anything but yoga, so I will help. And I went reluctantly, but it just turned out to be this truly magical. When I say magical, I was transformed in the service of my friend. That's a beautiful thing. Yeah, that's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1And then your healing, your training and healing kicked in. Yeah, you had the time to devote to someone who you've been connected with for some period of time, and then we don't predict when babies come, they just come when they come and you were ready and there for it. Yes, I was, and I don't believe it was only for her oh no, oh no, it was for, it was for me Exactly, I think, moments like this.
Speaker 3And I, you know, I distinctly clearly remember the day that I was leaving. We were getting ready to go to the airport, we had a little bit of time and we were sitting in the kitchen and she's like I, I understand why your time here has been so impactful and so important. And she's like I figured it out. She's like it's because you took care of me. She's like well, my mom's here, my mom's all about the baby. She don't do what I asked her wants to do. It's all about the baby when anyone comes to the house. It's all about the baby. She's like but you took care of me, wow. And so there's this whole notion built into the work that I'm doing around, this notion of caregiving, but not just the caregiving, the being cared for. Yeah, we have lost the sense of what does it feel like to be cared for?
Speaker 3yeah, like truly, truly be cared for, like to submit in it yeah times where we do is when we're flat on our back and sick yeah, yeah, when we have no other choice that is what, especially as Black, women.
Speaker 2We will do a fault. We will reject support and, just like you said, surrendering. I'm okay.
Speaker 1I'm okay. Yeah, I'm okay. Can I do anything for you? I can get that I'm okay, yeah, yeah, wow.
Speaker 3You know, the premise of my work is is that, yes, it's really important to have support when you are birthing and when you bring a baby home, and so birth doulas and our postpartum doulas are just, really just serving in an incredible way in those spaces and at end of life, when you're transitioning, you know, supporting families at end of life. But there's a whole lot of life, yes, and I'm like, and that's my playground, that's what I was scared of yes, let me say oh.
Speaker 2So two things that I want to say right off the bat. One is oftentimes, when we are gifted with a lot of different things that we do well, especially as entrepreneurs, we're told to focus, focus on one thing, do one thing, and then maybe, once you kind of get that off the ground, you can add other things to it. That's one of the models that we hear about as entrepreneurs. I think what Gail does, and what I believe I do also, is find that intersection of the things that we do well.
Speaker 2And when I say do well, I also mean that, because I think it's a part of it. You do it well and you love doing it, and she's found this particular place, but she found it by doing the thing and then recognizing how transformative it is for both the person she's serving and herself. Yeah, and then kind of packaging it as life doula, the in-betweens, yeah, and it's just a beautiful, beautiful thing, and we're going to go into detail about what this is and we want to kind of link it to some of the other conversations that we've had with other guests. The other thing I want to say is Gail always talks about and this is one of our intersections she always talks about building capacity for people. So I want you to talk about that concept as it relates to the services that you provide and how it creates capacity for your clients.
Speaker 3So one of the things, as I've done this work that I've found is that and Elizabeth Gilbert, she has this quote that says I'm my best self when I have less on my plate. I'm my best self when I have less.
Speaker 1I need to write that down, leslie.
Speaker 2Do this so that your thing will go off again. Do this, do something, yay, yes.
Speaker 3Yes, and that quote really resonates with the capacity building that when I have less on my plate, I can really focus on the thing that matters most, and that's the premise of Life Doula. Okay, we think of postpartum doulas, birth doulas. They're there to support so you can focus on the thing that matters most. You can focus on the thing that matters most. So when I serve families in their homes, your focus might be your parents. Your focus might be yourself. Getting that workout in. Your focus might be a promotion. Your focus might be spending more time with your children. So what else can be delegated and moved off your plate so you can be the best wow, caregiver of yourself?
Speaker 2isn't it? Doesn't it just make you want to feel like yes?
Speaker 3please, it does, and they walk in the door to be the best partner. So it's building the capacity.
Speaker 1Building is about giving you space to live really, I love that you're putting it in that way, because we especially, you know, we, as black women, we buy into the. We can do anything.
Speaker 3All we need we can do more, more, more, and instead of, you know, we just keep filling the bucket and filling the bucket instead of like getting out of my way I can do it, I can do it, I can do it better, right, take care of my kids, like me, which is true, yes, yes, but it doesn't mean you're supposed to do all of it and it also doesn't mean that it doesn't take a toll on you.
Speaker 1You know that it doesn't leave skid marks exactly you know, yeah, yeah. And then you wonder why I'm not be able to focus. Why do I feel tired all the time? Why am I grumpy to my partner? Why am I not my best self at work? You know what's happened to me? Am I getting burned out and whatever right you know.
Speaker 2Right, right, all right, I want to. I want to zero in because, um, gail, just um, did a challenge. Um and Gail what I? The reason why I want to talk about the challenge here is because it's going to give some real specificity around how some of your your services, um, look like, how people can engage with your services, and there's much more that we're gonna talk about, because my strings are hanging all the things that we've talked about, about moving abroad and so on.
Speaker 2There's another aspect of what you do that connects to that, but I'm jumping the gun. Can you describe the challenge that you just conducted and what was kind of behind it and what were some of the goals of the of the challenge that you did?
Effective Decluttering Strategies and Psychological Impact
Speaker 3So I'm going to challenge backtrack a little bit. Sure, we'll make this a really rich, richer conversation, yep. So when I first started you know you're talking about pivots I stepped out of family's home so that I could bring Life Doula, really promote it as a full-time CEO, really promoted as a full-time CEO and I really thought the way to expand the entrepreneur journey how do you scale was to find more caregivers like me to do this work, so that more families can have this experience, or caregivers can have this experience.
Speaker 3Like a train-the-trainer type of thing, exactly. Okay, that was that. While I could do that work and I did it really well it wasn't as much fun. So I spent some time thinking about what is it that I really want to do, and so one of the things that occurred to me was that do what you love, and one of the things that I love to do is decluttering. For me to not push in a chair that's not pushed in or close a closet door, like I'm a little anal, like that, oh my girl come to mama.
Speaker 3This is where I'm stepping back when I go to my sister's house she's like do not touch. And I'm like this, but just this one thing let me just move it back yeah, one thing that my clients really enjoy because I would do it, you know, fold things, fold things, reorganize stuff, and they loved it and I was like, maybe that's the way. Maybe that's the support, or the ones that did not match were the ones where the the homes were either disorganized or there were core systems in place.
Speaker 2OK.
Speaker 3Out of that, it really helped me realize that we really need to be thinking of our homes as organizations. The same things that work in a corporate environment work in the home environment.
Speaker 3We need systems at work. We need systems at home. We got to learn how to work together and create connection at work. We absolutely need that. And the other piece is organization. Things need to be in their place. We need to find them when we need them. And so I decided to make a pivot and really position my business as the forward facing part of my business be decluttering, because if you start with decluttering is if you start with decluttering. It's like a domino effect. Things begin to fall into place, yeah, yeah, what needs to be here? And so I did a challenge. So I pivoted my business around decluttering and did a challenge, and the challenge was around the five steps for success to have a successful decluttering project. Now, I know that's a lot of words okay, but listen, this is this is.
Speaker 2This is. This is really like. This is really action-based. Yeah, gail, the way that gail lays it out, it almost it's like how else could I? This is impossible to do other than this way yeah you know what I mean because, you think because because she, she took, she takes out the stumbling blocks that make you, even though you really want to, you really don't know how, so talk about the barriers yeah, because she created a system so okay okay
Speaker 3yes, go. So. First, I'll say one of the biggest things that people do when they're in a situation where things are just cluttered is they just wake up and they're like I can't take it anymore. And then they get started and and then they stop because it becomes overwhelming. Yeah, and so the point of the challenge is let's start small, scope, a project that you can do in a weekend, and let's do it together so we can skill build and then you can get repeat and do it over and over. So the five steps are the first thing to do is scope Scope a project. If you only have four hours, don't try to declutter your garage. Yeah, yeah, right, you know. So pick a project that you can do for the challenge in a 48 hour period and set yourself up for success.
Speaker 3Set yourself up for success. Really think about what is the area that we need to declutter and what are. What is the impact If we can achieve this? What is the impact? Maybe it's declutter my son's room and get all the clothes that don't fit so we can improve our morning routine, but not pants that are way up his leg, so maybe it just keeps growing.
Speaker 1They fit yesterday he's gonna get bullied scope.
Speaker 3The project number two is get your supplies. So you know you got to have your supplies, your trash bags, your boxes, tape sharpies, just basic supplies, so that you have what you need so you don't have to run out and come back right I like it and with the supplies. The biggest mistake that people make is they want to get the design stuff before they declutter all the pretty, yeah, right, but you don't even know how many you need.
Speaker 1You don't know the size you need. You don't know where they're going to go.
Speaker 3Exactly. So you're going to scope it out. You're going to get your basic supplies. You're going to schedule the time, you're going to mark it on your calendar. You're going to let your girlfriends know you can't make it to brunch. Come to my house and help me. So you're going to schedule your friends, people that can help you. You might even want to schedule that um, purple heart association to come and pick up the stuff that's the donation on monday yeah, if you know they're coming, you gotta have it ready for them scheduled to have monday off, so a little more time.
Speaker 3So thinking about what do I need to put in place? What things do I need to get off the calendar? Do I need a babysitter? Worked with a young lady fashionista. I mean she had all the products, all the lashes, all the makeup, all the brushes and so we had to use the hallway. We had to pull all of her beauty products out and use the hallway products out and use the hallway. So we had to use that, those paint, that painter plastic to protect the carpet. We also draped it over her bed so we could use that space as well. So we staged the scene, we set up our box, we staged the space and then the last thing we did was the actual sort. And I say the sort is where the magic happens. Oftentimes people pick up a thing and they're making decisions before they've sorted. Okay, okay, sort right.
Speaker 2So it's like if you have five of the same brushes, so you sort and then you can see I can before okay, got it easier to say okay, I have 40 pairs of jeans Right Now.
Speaker 3I can really let some things go. I can donate.
Speaker 1Right, but if you only think you have two pair, you're never going to let them go.
Speaker 2Or if you're just picking up one pair of jeans and you're like, oh, I got to keep that, and you're not in the mind that, oh, I got 40 more. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3so sorting for oh, and oftentimes people don't know what they have because they have clothes everywhere in the guest bedroom closet, in their closets, in their own closet, in the coat closet. Part of the sorting process is to get everything together. It's like a skip all of my sweaters, all of them, from everywhere, from under the bed, from everywhere, everywhere, and evaluate out of all the sweaters do. I still love these things, and so those are the five steps that I show people to help them have a successful decluttering project. So if you can do those five things, you are on your way to having a successful experience.
Speaker 1Now, there's one thing that I keep thinking of while you were speaking the psychological aspect of it, because you got to wear your psychologist hat while you're going through these five things.
Speaker 3It's like Well, let me tell you I have been surprised, but not surprised about the, the triggers, the things that are triggered when I support yeah, going through their things. It's pretty, it can be overwhelming.
Speaker 1Sure, and it's very emotional, very Letting go at what it represents and who I used to be. If I get rid of it, I'm no longer that person. So you know, we come with baggage. In addition to the physical stuff, the emotional baggage.
Speaker 3Exactly I wore this to an event, and that was with someone who I thought I was going, you know.
Speaker 1Yeah, all kinds of things, All the things.
Speaker 3All the things, and so the thing is not really about the thing, it's about what it represents, sure, and so having these conversations with people is really helpful, because when the emotions hit, it really takes people off guard. So really really an important part of the process, because until you identify the why you're keeping the thing, it'll just move around. You'll be old and find a new place for it.
Speaker 2I did like a major reduction of possessions in the last six months, right, because I sold a big home in 2022. Most of those things went into storage and then I decided to let most of those things go when I moved into a smaller place. And I have to say that it's not about like just getting rid of the stuff, because if you don't kind of deal with like Gail is saying the emotion part, like um, I'm mourning some things that I did not process but they're gone so they're not clutter anymore.
Speaker 2but I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe I I let that go, or do you know?
Speaker 1what I mean. So it's a step that you.
Speaker 2It's not something that you skip over just because you've decided that you're not going to keep it.
Speaker 1It's a better thing to do, yeah, because then there's some residual. Exactly, that's tough, it's a lot, it's a lot.
Speaker 3Yeah, it's a part of your identity. When I retired from the Navy, I mean, you know, we have all of our different uniforms for different things, and for a while I'm like I'm not ready to deal with this stuff, so I just put in a bin. So finally I'm like, okay, I need to go through this stuff. Um, and I realized that, wow, all of these uniforms represented an identity that I had been tied to since I was in high school. I did Army ROTC in high school, joined the Navy at 18, and went through ROTC in college, had a 26-year history with the military, and so these uniforms represented a huge yeah, yeah, especially when I didn't know what I was transitioning to, and so there was a whole lot of conversation about what that that meant.
Speaker 3So your things are part of your identity. Yeah, you really need to understand the impact of that and ask the question why am I keeping it? Why is it so hard? Um, lots of really great questions that you can answer, breakthroughs that you can have around seeing the why question right right wow wow, what?
Speaker 1what I was intrigued about, um, in addition to just helping parents with their uh, birthing and new children, but you assist entrepreneurs in launching business businesses. Um, I love that. You said that you want to open up the opportunity for people to be their best selves, and I know I can speak personally, and I'm sure others can where I said you know what? I'm not bringing my best self to this experience. I'm not doing my best work. This is not the best version of me and I have had to actively changed a couple of things when I recognized that, but it was kind of hard, yeah, yeah, yeah but sometimes, when I don't let me, I'll speak for myself.
Speaker 3Sometimes I found, when I'm not doing my best work, when I really truly focus on that, there's another emotion that's going on underneath that, and so it might be fear, it might be worthiness, it might be tiredness, it might need mean I need to get more rest. This thing about being in this most brilliant space is really unnatural for a lot of people. Yeah, because being in a space where you are your most brilliant self means you created space, there is a spot for you, there is a spotlight, there's a supporting cast, and a lot of people never get that opportunity.
Speaker 1Yeah, creating an employment for somebody else, wow, oh wow, I call that like you found your life, calling when things align. Like you said, you identified some of those skills that was so helpful to other people. Of course, a lot of different arenas, but then was so self-fulfilling, right, right, absolutely I love it.
Speaker 2So one area when I first told Leslie about Life, doula, and the work that you're doing, gail, it was first of all when you talked about the clothes horse. Does that include shoes, horse and donkey and hippo, all the things I mean, that's you, huh Ang, all of the animals, leslie. And okay, one of the reasons why I have to say is because Leslie loves to support designers and you know she'll go to events and she'll buy stuff that she knows handmade.
Speaker 3Stop for a minute Are you talking to Leslie Like it almost sounds like she's outing me.
Speaker 2No, no, no, no, no. This is not. Listen these everything about Leslie. I have to tell you everything about Leslie, whether it's personality, whatever it is over my experience with her I have benefited from. So this ain't there's no shade around this.
Speaker 2Let me tell you where we're coming in for a landing. So I talked about the fact that I kind of feel like I'm really agile right now because my space is downsized, my things, I'm not paying for storage anymore and kind of you know, every four months just feel the heaviness of that that I have to go deal with those things. They're gone. So so I feel really agile and there is a certain level of freedom that comes with that, right. And so Leslie and I have been kind of thinking about, okay, what's next, where are we going to retire and things like that. And you know, the potential of moving abroad.
Speaker 2Leslie just came back from a trip to Costa Rica, just kind of some some fact finding. And so it becomes important and we are a part of a community called Exodus Summit where we're starting to learn more about kind of tangible steps that we can take to be more agile, to potentially move around. You know those. So so we're at this point now where it is important to do what you to have the services that you're talking about, right, and and for anyone out there in TV land who are kind of in this, you know I I want to have less things, I'm downsizing or I'm thinking about traveling more.
Speaker 2In this stage of my life, you want a little more freedom. You want a little more freedom, you want a little more, and so it becomes time now to start engaging with this type of work that Gail has, yeah, around deep, call it whatever you like, whether it's decluttering, whether it's um sorting, whether it's you know, um, uh, um, being more agile. That's the term that I really like to use, because it's like a motion term, whatever it is. So Leslie was like oh my God, I need a gal.
Speaker 1Yes, you do, on so many different and different places.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1So we do have a lot of listeners who are in our age group and in our 60s, where we might be looking for retirement in the next few years. So we're empty nesters now. Or we want a second home or third home or whatever. Yeah Right.
Speaker 2And I know that this conversation is allowing them to kind of relax, because just kind of knowing that a service like this is available, that in and of itself is like OK, somebody sees me, somebody knows. So how would you I don't know like describe how you would, let's say Leslie, for example?
Speaker 1right, how do you? No, that's a good question actually how would you? Even assess the need, because I'm like how much time you got, okay, let me tell you what I got going on. Let me tell you what I got going on and let me tell you, and you'll be like, wait a minute, let me get some Tylenol and then we'll talk again, you know. So how do you? Clearly, it's not just physical clutter, it's emotional clutter, it's mental clutter. How do you approach?
Speaker 3yeah, the work how do you approach the work? I mean, you guys are are scientists and project managers. It's a systematic approach and it's basically really getting people to dream Wow.
Speaker 1Hold, stop it.
Speaker 2What a beautiful beginning.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 1What a beautiful beginning. Yeah, what a beautiful beginning. And I'll just say that Ange did that with her eldest son a number of years ago, who he is now living his best life out on the West Coast. He was raised in a family of high achievers and you have a script that you kind of need to follow loosely, but follow expectations I'll say and one time his mama sat him at the table. And what is it that you said?
Speaker 2I remember exactly, but you said I said, if you had no limitations at all, um like no limitations, none none, what would you do? And I had to cajole it out of him and tell him because he kept putting up limitations. He's like no you didn't hear me. Yeah, and that conversation changed his life yeah, changed mine, of course, because I just had a fabulous time with him. Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1And so it starts with the dream because we we, we've just been so used to squashing and littling up ourselves to either conform to other people, to conform to that box, to conform to our loved ones' expectations. I mean, so many of us stop dreaming that we don't even know how to dream anymore and a lot of what Ange and I when we started this podcast because we want people to start dreaming, by showing them some of the things, the little things that we've been able to do just by starting to dream yeah yeah, the other big piece of the dreaming is really holding space, so kind of like what you know Angela did for her son, like really just you know, and that's the capacity building.
Speaker 3Yes, I'm going to open this space just for you and I'm going to attend, I'm going to give you attention, I am going to put care, love, appreciation so that you can be fully in this space where you can think boldly.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 3Wow, even when I'm in someone's home and it's like where do we start? Do we start in the kitchen? Do we start with the clothes? Do we start office? You know there's so many things that just just simply ask them what are your dreams? What are you dreaming for? What do you want?
Speaker 1And they probably say like what now? What are you talking about?
Speaker 3Let's just get to it what? What does this have to do with?
Speaker 2getting everything. It has everything to do with it.
Dreaming and Organizing for a Purpose
Speaker 3Everything, and so you know it did some work. The same young lady I was telling you about, you know, she actually just sunk down into the couch and she's like I want my home to be beautiful. She's like I want to welcome, you know, my husband. I want to have my friends over and soirees and cooking parties, she's like, but I dare invite anyone over, wow, and she just went on to say all of these things and it came down to like her biggest dream was she wanted a family Space was not set up to.
Speaker 1And her sanctuary was not her sanctuary Exactly.
Speaker 3And so, wow, we kept talking, we just kept talking. Was not her sanctuary Exactly? And so we kept talking, we just kept talking, but it helped me discern what's the best place to start.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 3We just started with her clothes, because that took up a lot of real estate for her home and her desire is to have kids, so she desired to have a husband first, and so we need to make room for him. Yeah, there's no room for him in this home. When I say dream, I mean that literally. Yes.
Speaker 1Isn't that?
Speaker 2something Right. Right, it's kind of like we this is a theme with Leslie and I in what we talk about, this kind of binary, you know it's this or it's dreaming, right, it is vision or it's, you know, manifestation, and few people really really, really understand and can acknowledge that they go together, right. So Gail just said you start with the dream, right, you start with that vision and then, because she's this organizational whiz, y'all heard about the this process, this, this challenge. I mean specific steps, those five steps. Right, so it goes from this, this vision which leads. Right, it has to be a compelling vision, because when you need to throw away your that 40 pairs of your jeans, you have to have that.
Speaker 2Well, it's because I want to have a raise and parties and a husband and kids at my house. If you try to do the 40, the 40 gene thing without thinking about, well, what is it going to do in?
Speaker 1your life.
Speaker 2It doesn't work, you fall apart. It's like no, I can't do it Right, and so those two things have to go together.
Speaker 1And that's our sweet spot as best friends for over 45 years, Absolutely. The thing is where we joke about being right brain, left brain, but we're so so different that we fit like this. So Ange can be the dreamer and I can be the executor, because I'm organized, I'm regimented and this and that. And sometimes Ange has to say let's stop doing, just dream it for a minute, you know, and I'm like what, what are?
Speaker 2you talking about.
Speaker 1You know it's like she's like I'm like what, what are you talking about? You know it's like she's like I'm just ideating. I'm like okay, because I was just gonna say when do we start?
Speaker 3so it's the marriage of the two and that's what you bring to folks, yeah your dream is to park your car in the garage. Because and then you keep asking why? Why is it important for me to be able to want to be in the elements during the wintertime? Because I want my fancy car to be protected I want it to have. Yeah, I want it to not last longer.
Speaker 1I want to be able to unload groceries in a space that's comfortable and not burdensome and whatever. There's so many little things that add up to this, you know.
Speaker 3And understanding your dream and the whys helps with momentum. It helps keep you going like, ok, I'm going to keep going, I'm going to keep going, I'm going to keep going. Yes, keep an eye on the prize.
Speaker 1Yes, the prize, the prize, absolutely. That's a great way to end because we are like we're about over time and you know I'm the time keeper wait, okay, one little thing though. One little thing because you know, we never do one little thing, it's always it's my party.
Speaker 2I can talk more if I want to okay, okay.
Speaker 2So um, so one of the things that and you'll hear more about this but so what you're hearing all along here is you got these two organized, you know kind of uh, structured in the, in the kind of um. Common sense of the of the word Um, common sense of the of the word um. And then you have this kind of um, a dreamer person, over here, and you also hear that these things come together, they need each other. Remember, we used to only talk about stem, stem, stem stem science, technology, engineering, math, and then now you're starting to hear about STEAM. They had to put the art in there, because without the art it's just yeah. So this idea of this or that is what we're kind of bringing together.
Speaker 2Right, we're creating the convergence around that. We're creating the convergence around that. So in one of our kind of talks, Gail and I, the idea of joy and order came up right, Because we have this intersection.
Speaker 1Oh okay, I like that and we're like, oh my God it's great.
Speaker 2So you'll be hearing more about that. We're kind of gelling the idea what that may look like, and so you'll be hearing more about joy and order, and you know it's all really about getting what you want out of life. You know, my thing is joy, right, how do you create more joy in your life?
Speaker 3more joy, please, um gail has, I get joy out of order yeah, exactly, we all have our thing, our ways of getting joy.
Speaker 2It's not. You know what I mean, and so that's what I wanted to say that, um, yeah, so I can't wait.
Speaker 1Wow, you know we could talk for another hour. I know we can, but you know, but we've got time, we've got plenty of time.
Speaker 3God willing, she can come back Exactly.
Speaker 1She's going to come back and describe how she helped me and it's going to be like OK, I really, really, really need to hold on to things. But you know what the problem Gail, as you can imagine. When you have space to put things in, you can keep them yeah.
Speaker 3It's like a big purse.
Speaker 1It's like a big purse, it's like I'm not running out of room, so why does it need to go? But it needs to go, it needs to go Hold and go hold, and so do we yeah, no, no.
Speaker 2But but, gail, can you tell people how they can reach you? We, of course, will have it in our description and so on, but if you could quickly tell people how they can get at life doula inc.
Speaker 3or my life doula, and all of my handles are my life doula. So you can find me mostly on Instagram at my life doula, and that's I play and that's where we're going to do some things with the joy and order idea, and so that's the best place to find me. My life doula and it's my website. My life doula and um, it's my website.
Speaker 3Get a free discovery call If you just want to talk through a strategy or just kind of, you know, think through, man, what could I do? How could I create capacity? Um, I can give you some space and we can figure that out. That's a beautiful thing. Oh, I love that no more excuses, guys.
Speaker 2All right, let's bring us home.
Speaker 1This has been another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn, brooklyn. Thank you, gail, it was wonderful.
Speaker 3It was my pleasure.
