Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
This is what the world needs now: two free-thinking “seasoned” Black women speaking their truth and inspiring others to do the same. Shaped by 45 years of friendship that began at the prestigious Brooklyn Technical High School through the Ivy League, medical school, marriages, divorces, triumphs, parenting queer children, life-threatening illness and many many amazing adventures. Each week, besties Leslie Osei-Tutu and Angella Fraser will push against boundaries in love, culture, careers, faith, politics and out-dated assumptions about women of a certain age. Remember, you’re never too old to change your mind…or your hair! (but more on that later :-)All views are our own and do not reflect the views of our institution/company. Information provided is not intended to serve as medical advice.
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
Mental Health Morning
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You ever just feel a little blah and figure a little pep talk with your pal will help? Leslie tried that and was shocked by Angella’s response. In this episode they take what begins as a private conversation to the airwaves as they do what they do best - trust each other’s wisdom for support during life’s ebbs and flows.
Positivity Quotient- https://www.positiveintelligence.com/
Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction- https://mindfulnessnj.com/index.htm,
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3336928/
Suicide & Crisis Lifeline- https://988lifeline.org/ or dial 988
Visit Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn website for behind-the-scenes extras.
So Leslie is usually the first phone call that I get most mornings. And this particular morning she wasn't feeling herself. And I quickly got a setup to record because mental health is so important to the both of us. And we've each gone through different situations where we have to focus on our mental health. So I thought it was really important to capture this conversation. And I just want to thank Leslie again for always being willing to be vulnerable and to share her experiences to help others. Please let us know what you think about this episode. We're doing it all for you. You woke me up this morning. I did not get a full seven hours sleep. And um I was determined to sleep for another couple of hours. And um I gave up my walk this morning. I felt a little okay about that because I walked on the treadmill last night, but um you called, and you know, I always have to pick up the phone when you call.
SPEAKER_00I know, but who is still sleeping at 8 30, 9 o'clock in the morning? It's just so odd to me that my alarm goes off at five in the morning, you know.
SPEAKER_04So I I I have like I'll wait because you asked a question and I'm waiting for you to allow me to answer.
SPEAKER_00Well, what I'm what I'm saying is I think it's courtesy that I gave you three and a half hours more sleep than I had. Right. You know, before I called. Understood. But I I appreciate the fact that you always answer. And and this is the end of that conversation.
SPEAKER_04Still, I'm not allowed to answer the question. Well, listen, I get this pretty often, but at this point in my life, I tune it out more than I really um allow it to get into my psyche. But we have different schedules. You know I'm a night owl, you know that my flow happens later than yours. And what I've been working on is getting enough sleep instead of worrying about opinions like yours that it's too late to be sleeping and only getting four hours sleep. I've been doing better at staying my butt in bed and getting my full seven hours sleep before I get up, no matter what time I go to sleep. But it's okay. It's okay. I I I don't feel the judgment as badly as I used to. Yeah, no judge. It was my it was my choice. It was okay. It was my choice to not put the phone on, do not disturb. And even when I do, your call comes through. I don't know what that is. What is that? It's voodoo. It's OBI, you mean not voodoo.
SPEAKER_00Well, no, no, no. I just came back from New Orleans, so voodoo.
SPEAKER_04Voodoo. Okay. All right. Um, so yeah, so I um, you know, you were talking about you kind of not feeling, in a way, not feeling yourself. And um, I totally understand that. Um, and I it was definitely if it put a smile on my face in a way. And I I know that sounds weird.
SPEAKER_00Me not killing myself with the smile on your face. What kind of crap?
SPEAKER_04Okay. What kind of bullshit? Let me let me let me explain. Let me explain, Lucy. Because the reaction came from knowing that you're gonna be stretching your comfort zone, knowing that you were in the space of being uncomfortable, being uncomfortable. Um, no, you were in the space of being getting to feeling comfortable, being uncomfortable. And I know that that is a learning and growing and expanding space. So maybe it was a little premature because I needed to help you through it.
SPEAKER_00Well, for let's just talk about prematurity for a second. So, first of all, I was speaking to you as your pal and not as your bestie doing a podcast. So if I am emoting to you separately from the podcast, here you are with your podcast hat and you jump in with a solution. So I'm gonna back up. Right. Um, not only did you jump in with a solution, you're like, set up the equipment. Let's talk about this on air. And I'm like, what the is this? I'm gonna put all my business in shit. You can does every conversation now have to be a man. I found this rash on my ass and it like set up the equipment. So anyway. Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, I'm kidding.
SPEAKER_04Okay, no, so seriously, um, let's just no, we don't have to talk about rashes on the ass until season two.
SPEAKER_00Until season two. Um all right, so no, but honestly, um, what I was saying to you is that remember when you told me that you might be feeling a little down or depression uh returning and setting in. Yeah. And I told you that I'm starting to feel off. And we all know, you know, um, and perhaps uh listeners will know in the future about my bout with depression now, 40, uh excuse me, 20 plus years ago. But um, I just feel off. And it what I attributed it to be is just that, you know, my linear way of and organized way of living and going through life, it's I I'm just unsettled. So there's so many things going on right now. Uh, I just came back from a weekend uh in New Orleans at the uh anesthesia.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, we haven't even had a chance to talk about that.
SPEAKER_00No, but it was from 7 a.m. to 5 p.m. nonstop uh meetings, which were great, you know, but uh and and I got to see people, but it was labor intensive and uh it was brain uh mentally intensive because of um education and new things that you want to pick up. But anyway, um between that trip and unpacking from that trip and then going right back into work and seeing my home, which is it's not as organized. Okay, I'll call it dirty, and you know that doesn't sit with me very well, you know, luggage still sitting around, not completely unpacked, and you know, um all the all the when the when the cat's away, the mice will play um your family not tidying up as as as they used to when you're around all the time. Well, but not just that, like nobody was home, you know, mice out of town and came with me to New Orleans, so um even Simpa was at the border. So uh, you know, pulling everything back together and then getting back into work. I just feel um unsettled as and here are some of the clues that I have, and I need to sit and listen. And um, well, I'll I'll just mention the advice that you unsolicited advice. You sort of give me like that's the best kind. You know how wives sometimes complain about their husbands. It's like, I don't need you to solve this. I just need a you that listen. Well, you did that just a little while ago.
SPEAKER_04Shouldn't have come to me.
SPEAKER_00You know me far too much. Just you know, just snacking a lot, eating uh carbs and what have you. I haven't been exercising like I want to. Um, Ms. Peloton is kind of like looking at me and saying, like, hey, pal, and wait, remember that time when um what was that?
SPEAKER_04What was that game system? No, but it was something, you're right. It was a we, it was it, the we. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was the we You were like one of the first people to get one of those games, nothing new. And you had told me that gotten on it and it asked so much. Hey, have you seen Leslie?
SPEAKER_00Yes, it said, How's Leslie doing? What the hell? That's like early AI. So anyway, um, so I'm noticing that I'm off and things are unsettled for me, and I need to take a step back and start, you know, looking at the big picture again and getting back to me. It's concerning, it's not alarming, right? Um, but um, you know, I'm noticing it and I'm getting concerned. So, what were you advising?
SPEAKER_04So I guess uh um I wanted to ask you a question about the desire to get back to something. Can you talk about that? Are you trying to get back to feeling comfortable again? Or you're is it that if you're not feeling like things are ordered, you'll always feel out of whack? I I don't know where I'm going with that question, but uh it it just seemed like something to ask you. Like, where are you trying to go back to? And is it is back the really the place you want to go, or is it another state of normalcy? I don't know the answer. It's not a setup.
SPEAKER_00I just wonder it it at first it kind of did sound like a setup, but not and it wasn't. Well, the reason I I thought that was because I felt I feel like you're questioning should I is it a healthy place to quote unquote get back to a type A ordered way of living when I know and we all know that you can't control everything.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00I had I remember speaking to a a therapist, um, one of the many times I've spoken to therapists. Um, but what she wanted me to explore was why I always felt the need for order and to be in charge of things and to be in control of things. Um, and people who know me intimately uh know that that's a drive that I have. And it's not always um, it's not always uh good, you know. It's useful.
SPEAKER_04It's not always useful.
SPEAKER_00Well, you're right, it's not always useful, it's sometimes off-putting and offensive. Um, and that's one of the things that I could continue to explore and work on, admittedly. But anyway, you're right. This unease that I've been feeling the last uh couple of weeks could be related to the birth of this podcast and the uh normal anxiety that would accompany such an endeavor, but not just that. Um, I think it's just the sum total of so many things going on.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's a lot at once.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah, it's um, I don't even know where to jump in because you know my my mind is has picked up on so many things that I could um I could delve into with you. I I think that it is okay, it's it's helpful to always kind of check in on yourself when you're feeling these feelings. And I'm speaking to when I say your, I mean oneself, including me, um, to understand what what what's going on. I I was I was telling you earlier that when you start listening to yourself, talking to yourself, it doesn't have to be audible, but it can be if you want. That's that's cool. Um we're allowed at our age to um talk to ourselves out loud. Um we've earned it.
SPEAKER_00But uh but if if my patient did that, I would say they have early onset dementia.
SPEAKER_04Well, okay, whatever. I think we all have a bit of that, right? Um, how many times have you lost your keys in the last in the last week? Or your glasses. Or the cell phone. Or the cell phone, all the things. So but I the idea of just, oh, why am I what am I feeling? What am I feeling right now? What what's what's going on? Um, or you know, I felt this way two weeks ago. Was there anything going on then that's similar to what's going on now that that I could kind of tune into and see if there's a pattern? I do that all the time. I think I naturally do that, but from all of the different mental um and um you know, kind of psychological and and just, you know, I'm a I'm a really deep thinker, but going to therapist myself and um and the different tools that I've explored um over the years has made me do that now just automatically. And what I realize is that there's a whole world of self that we don't tap into a whole lot. We're living, you know, it's you, you're and don't let me get into are we a soul in a body or a body with a soul? Don't let me go there. But I have a whole conversation with myself around that. But checking in on yourself, you start to realize that, first of all, how often you don't do it, and how you're kind of carrying yourself around in this world and mostly dealing with what is external to you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Isn't that but then there's this whole like life that's just you, it's just self that if we listen to sometimes, I think it's so freaking fascinating and scary sometime or scary a lot of the time. But you know, scared to me doesn't mean okay, I'm gonna stop because I'm scared. Yeah, yeah. It means investigate. What is what is this all about? Is this rational? Is it is the bear really coming, or is it just a little rabbit rustling in the in the trees? But rabbits are scary to me also. But anyway, the idea is to investigate and not just yeah.
SPEAKER_00So, Ange, but here's the thing investigation requires you to really quiet down the your environment or the external world that we're walking around in. Let me give you an example. When we get in our cars and drive to work or whatever, one of the first things we do is turn on the radio. And just think of how much discomfort there is if you opt to not turn on the radio and be quiet in the car. You know, it's it's so uncomfortable, just that quiet. We're not used to being in a world that's quiet, especially, you know, living in the northeast and being from a city or whatever, you know. Um you know, that uh biblical saying that um my sheep hear my voice. And what the implication is, is that if you're quiet enough, you can hear the cues or clues that that are coming from within. The problem is so many of us do not um quiet ourselves down enough to be able to listen.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00Um, how many of us walk in the house from a day of being out and just turn on the television for background noise? Yeah, yeah um, so that requirement for background noise is telling.
SPEAKER_04So, you know, I have something to say about this too, because um I had started a practice, I do it sometimes um still, but it's called um Positivity Positive Positivity quotient or a PQ. Um and one of the and and the the the premise of it is that if you uh allow your uh senses, your your five senses, right? Touch, smell, um, hearing, sight, so hey, I remember you telling me about this. Yeah. If you uh allow yourself to use those and only use those, not with a lot of thought and uh you know feeling around it. Just use those. The more that you do that and just tune in to those things, and I'll give you an example in a moment, the more the synapses um change. You're actually reprogramming your brain to go to a place like it's almost like a a place of uh ultimate uh control where you're not reacting to situations. You're thinking about the situation before you react. And you see it in practice in you know in um martial arts, um, those those masters, and you wonder how can they move like that or how can they almost predict what's gonna happen. And it's not really predicting, it's l it's it's uh it's experiencing differently. And so an example is you you just mentioned getting in the car and and quiet. When I get in the car, when I don't turn on the radio, I never hear quiet. Because now I'm tuned to so many things. I hear the tie the the sound of the road, how the how the wheels hit the road, where it's bumpy, where it's not, where it's grainy. My ear picks that up now. I I hear just the the the buzzing, because right now if you stop, you can hear a sound. Like tune in to the like just the sound that's coming in from the mic. There's like a wow Do you hear it? I do. I hear something. So there's all yeah, so there's always there's always um um experiences of your senses happening. And when we um when we tune into those, it becomes so it's like uh this this other like ooh, like I know this sounds far-fetched, but but it's also right here, it's the most intimate uh parts of of ourselves, but it's the thing that we ignore the most. We think it's so woo-woo to do that, but it's actually the thing that's closest to us. Like if I said to you, um, just sit and listen to the furthest sound away from you, you might be able to hear a truck driving on your street, you know, and then if I say listen to the sound that's closest to you, you might hear your breathing. But these sounds are happening whether you you tune in or not. Right, right, right. So it's just kind of this getting um getting this um ability to to to tune into what is close and what is personal and what is self instead of always kind of thinking about the the external stuff that is going on where most of our attention usually goes, or all of our attention for for a lot of people. So anyway, I'm not taking this anywhere except to say that um I think it's always gonna help you when you check in with yourself. And um, if you want to think about it in an ordered, kind of linear or useful way, um think about um how it can help you to start getting back into order. Like, okay, what am I gonna do now? There's so much going on, but it's just cluttering my brain. All right, what am I gonna do first? What am I gonna do second? What am I gonna do third?
SPEAKER_00Ange, remember how you try to teach me? I've never gotten it yet, though. But you've always talked to talk to me and say, do a brain dump.
SPEAKER_04Yes. Yeah, that's really helpful.
SPEAKER_00Talk about that for a second. I've I'm not good at that because I'm like, oh, I don't get it. I don't get it. But yeah.
SPEAKER_04So, so I It's it's it's just writing down everything that uh that you're thinking, everything that's in your mind. Because our our minds are um our brains are are um problem solving, right? It's it w that's one of the core um responsibilities, duties, operations of the brain is to is to solve problems. But when there's a lot of clutter in it, you know, what why is that that shade of green? Oh uh what's what am I gonna why is why is my foot feeling so funny? What you know, there's all this clutter in your head, it takes up space. And so dumping that out, whether it becomes a practice of yours, it it doesn't matter. You can use it as frequently or as infrequent frequently as you like, but just get a piece of paper and start writing everything that you're thinking about. And it's gonna be like it's gonna be like popcorn, right? You know, when you first pop popcorn, it's like rapid and then it's like boop boop boop boop, and then you know to stop. When when your brain activity starts to get like that, then you stop. And you would be amazed if you try it, Leslie, when you try it.
SPEAKER_00But when I try it, it's like it starts out for me, the the slow popcorn, just the burp, all right, I've written three things, I'm done.
SPEAKER_04That's that's called resistance. That's that's that's you resisting the the practice because you are not gonna tell me that at any given time you don't have 50 million things that you're thinking about.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, I just can't identify them, I suppose, you know.
SPEAKER_04But Les, what do you mean? What is what do you mean you can't identify? If I just say write, what you're thinking about is oh, but it's gotta make sense and it's gotta be a sentence, and I just can't write a word. And yeah, yeah, that's true. But what is that though? Like, what is that?
SPEAKER_01I'm so jacked up. I need help.
SPEAKER_04Wait, you know, this is the analogy that came to mind. You know, when you go to the bathroom, right, and you have to do number two, yeah, right? Sometimes you're constipated, sometimes it just comes out, you know, like like little pellets, and sometimes it flows. And doesn't it feel good when it just flows? Oh, I mean, not explosive flowing like okay, enough.
SPEAKER_00But I'm just saying, I'm just saying that it feels good when you allow yourself to flow. I suppose, I suppose. But listen, that reminds me. I've been trying to do this. I did this course actually probably a little more than two years ago now. Um, mindfulness based stress reduction.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00So it came, I I thought of it at a time when it was very similar to the way I'm feeling right now. It's this training based on um John Cabot Zinn's um mindfulness training. So it's not meditation per se, it's not yoga per se, but what it is is quieting your mind enough to reduce um stress. So, you know how people start meditating, and and I always said, like, I'm not very good at meditating because intrusive thoughts come in or whatever. Right. But what you should do is not try to push those thoughts out, much like what you're suggesting, correct, is just go with it, like, oh, there's a fly going over here, not trying to get rid of the sound of the fly, right, but appreciating it and then moving on. No judgment. Right. It's like, hey, fly, I see you.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then right, or hey, my heart is, I feel my heart beating. Right, you know, right? It's like, okay, that's you know, and it's a different way to approach things. You're not trying to get rid of them or push them aside, you're appreciating them and moving on. And I gotta say, for the 12 weeks that I did it, it worked out great. So, okay, so wait. So you found something that works. It did carry over a little a little bit um further. Maybe I just need to review it again.
SPEAKER_04So let's, yeah, you found something that works for you, but there's something about um there's something that is happening that's making you not go back to that help. You know, you're you're still, I don't know, maybe and I'm gonna say this, but I'm not saying that it's true. I'm I'm investigating. Is it because, oh, I can figure this out without that? Or, you know, I can just work my way or or get into an activity that's gonna make this go away, right? Uh like you found something that works. So why aren't you going back to it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that that's a good thought. I that's something I need to think about for sure. That's something I need to think about. Yeah, um, you know, it's the same thing that when we were exercis exercising five days a week, you know, and I love to exercise. Why am I not exercising? It brought so much peace. I felt so good, and this, you know. Um I just need to stop being uh so reactionary right now and be a little more proactive and revisit those things that work for either stress reduction, um, alleviating depression or uh anxiety, right, et cetera, et cetera. Not the four cups of coffee a day and snacks and this. It's you know, slow down less.
SPEAKER_04Well, you know, yeah, like, and don't beat yourself up about it because that's not helpful either, right? Just do one thing at a time. Just you know, if it's just one thing that you can do of of what you learn, just just do that and and say, Yeah, I I you know, I'm glad that I that I did that. You don't have to it doesn't have to be this big thing. You're used to doing big taking on big endeavors. And um they all just come about from uh individual steps. So just just think about those and not um you know, it's like I I the the the depression I remember when I was so um when I became aware of what it really is and how it is a it is uh an actual deficiency of of um a substance in your body and you'll use the medical um terms, but uh as an engineer, you know, I I that is what made the I the understanding of it click for me. And medications help to replenish that, right? So there are times where I'm clear now of the symptoms and the signals of of my depression. I know what happens, I know when it's when it's coming on, I I know what to do about it, I don't I don't resist, I don't kind of, you know, fight against the um the what my what I'm what I'm how I'm starting to think. I I now talk about it. I I call you, I might call um one of my children. For me, it's I withdraw and I just really focus in on just the the what's in front of me and I only let one or two people in at a time. You're usually one of those people, and that that's what I have to do. And I don't anymore, oh, I I gotta do this or I have to talk to that person or this person is calling me. I know that that is what I have to do until I work my way through it. Um but it's uh I don't know, it's um the mind is is incredible, it's it's fascinating, and I I I wish that um you and others could spend more time um looking in, you know, and and it's it's just it's it's fascinating to me. We're gonna have to have a yeah, this is gonna come up a lot because it's it's just yeah, it's and it should.
SPEAKER_00Did you know that 10%, I mean, even now, and the numbers are probably more, 10% of people here, just in the US, have had one at least an episode of what they call major depression in their lifetime.
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_00And the numbers are growing, as you can imagine, and not decreasing. Right. And unlike in previous times, younger people like teens, even adolescents, are reporting symptoms of major depression and suicidality than ever before.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Possibly related to pandemic, possibly related to social media influences, but um it's real. So here I am, or and we are at 60 discussing feelings of depression and low mood and things like that. Could you imagine how much worse it is for younger people who don't have the voice and the language to discuss their feelings or um know about solutions and options that are available to them, or living in household with caretakers or teachers that are too busy to listen or unable to recognize. So, I mean, I it seems almost like I'm going in another direction, but I'm just jumping back on the fact that this is something that I think it would bet we would um it would be a good idea for us to continue to talk about in future episodes.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I I think you're right. And and we will because um, you know, we are we're um we we have some responsibilities at 60.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, we do. You know, we have some responsibilities and um because we've lived so many years irresponsibly, huh? It's like, okay, put up a good name for yourself now because there ain't too many more shopping days till Christmas.
SPEAKER_04Shopping days till Christmas. I love that. Yeah, it's um, yeah, but it's but it's all good. It's it's um everyone has a different pace and you know, different set of struggles. Um, and uh there's um there's a Bob Marley song, and it may be Old Testament um language, uh, but um he says um every everyone's thinking that his burden is the heaviest. Everyone's thinking that his burden is the heaviest. Like everyone thinks that their burden is heavier than everyone else's burden, and um that's far from far from the truth. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But um you gotta get to where you're getting to offering to um record my innermost private moments talking to you.
SPEAKER_04You're welcome. Thank you for always being willing to be uh stretched and um always being willing to help um to help to help others and um to help me because I know that's why you said yes, yeah, is because of that. So anyway, all right.
SPEAKER_00So this has been another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn. Black Boomer besties from Brooklyn. All right, see y'all later. Bye now.
