Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
This is what the world needs now: two free-thinking “seasoned” Black women speaking their truth and inspiring others to do the same. Shaped by 45 years of friendship that began at the prestigious Brooklyn Technical High School through the Ivy League, medical school, marriages, divorces, triumphs, parenting queer children, life-threatening illness and many many amazing adventures. Each week, besties Leslie Osei-Tutu and Angella Fraser will push against boundaries in love, culture, careers, faith, politics and out-dated assumptions about women of a certain age. Remember, you’re never too old to change your mind…or your hair! (but more on that later :-)All views are our own and do not reflect the views of our institution/company. Information provided is not intended to serve as medical advice.
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
F*ck Mr. Reiner
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Mr Reiner was one of Leslie’s 5th grade teachers. Rather than encourage this A-student toward a love of learning and achievement, he secretly warned her new best friend’s mother to end the friendship because Leslie would be a bad influence. That was over 50 years ago, and Leslie has proven him wrong to the highest levels, yet his influence is still felt. For Angella, it was her 1st husband who put his sights on belittling her, despite her impressive accomplishments that far exceeded his own.
Haters gonna hate but you get to choose how much you allow the hater-a-tion to take root. Listen in on how The Besties turned things meant for harm to gain self-love and strength.
Visit Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn website for behind-the-scenes extras.
Hey Ants. Hey Les.
SPEAKER_01How are you? I'm doing well. You look amazing.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Are you noticing my little tan I got?
SPEAKER_01You look a little toasty.
SPEAKER_00As do you. You were laying out a little more than I was.
SPEAKER_01A little. Well, you have a beautiful pool. Thank God. Um, that it's ready for us. Yeah. And um, it's been great. Just hanging out with you at the pool and um enjoying our time together, getting hiatus. What are we calling it? We're calling it wellness week. Wellness week. Yeah. It's been going great. It is. So thank you. So thank you very much.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn. Brooklyn. So, you know what I really found interesting about our being a guest on Stephanie Clapper and Angela Pierce podcast, Someone's Thunder.
SPEAKER_01That was so much fun.
SPEAKER_00It was so much fun. And I know you all caught it, right?
SPEAKER_01Listen, we're saying we're when you get asked to be a guest on an amazing podcast, we feel like we have arrived.
SPEAKER_00I yeah, yeah. That was big. I'm like, why would they want to talk to me?
SPEAKER_01But they did want to, and it was a wonderful um interview um with the two of us. I I've been on their podcast before, but they've wanted the besties. And you know, somebody over here, her schedule was such that um we weren't able to. I was saving lives. I was saving lives. Um so we finally got on their podcast, and it went so so so so so so well.
SPEAKER_00So if you all haven't caught it, we will put the link in the episode notes so that no one can say that they haven't caught. So, but no. Um what was interesting about one of the questions that they asked to all of their guests is who or what was most influential in your life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Do you remember what I said? I do because it was like a big, a big um aha for you.
SPEAKER_00Turned out it really was a big aha moment because for some reason I couldn't identify what was like a positive influence in my life, but I brought up what I call the Mr. Reiner moment. He was more than a moment. Well, he was a whole yeah, he was a whole year, that's one thing. But Mr. Reiner was my fifth grade elementary school teacher. And while I can remember what he looked like, one of the most memorable things about Mr. Reiner was that he told my then best friend, he actually called up her mother and told her not to associate with me. Something of the effect that I was bad news.
SPEAKER_01Trouble.
SPEAKER_00And her mother should not allow her daughter who is new to the school to associate with me.
SPEAKER_01So why do you think that came up as an influence?
SPEAKER_00Well, one of the things is that the the memory has lived for all these 15 years after the incident.
SPEAKER_01I'm like, wait a minute. Fifth grade, 10 years ago, 15 years ago. Lord have mercy. Oh my gosh.
unknownNo. Okay.
SPEAKER_01But that was how many years?
SPEAKER_00That was 51 years ago.
SPEAKER_0151 years ago.
SPEAKER_00And you know that between me, you, and others, Mr. Ryan's name comes up really often. All the time. Because we laugh at the fact that he thought I was uh near do well and that should stay away from me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And the reason why it came up in the podcast seriously and sadly for me is that um, in addition to just being a running joke in my life, I realized that Mr. Reiner did have a really big effect on me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And what it actually, what he actually did to me, I believe, was plant a seed of success.
SPEAKER_01Because it was what like Whereas I'll show him kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00I really think that I felt like I have something to prove to the Mr. Rhinus of the world. Um at age 10, I didn't realize how much of a competitive person I am was at that time. But I've grown into I am, but I've grown to know that I am very competitive and it has informed my career choices for sure, yeah, my educational experiences, and so much of my life. And I when Angela or Stephanie asked that question, he was the first thing that came up.
SPEAKER_01That was uh I I was like, what the what? I was shocked. Because the question was asked, you know, the expectation I think was even for you, was that it would be a positive, um, a positive influence. Um, but this has always been uh um Mr. Reiner in our friend circle has always been an indication of um of stereotyping. Stereotyping, but but but I think even more than that, it's been like um look how much something that was meant for bad um turned for good. And how wrong he was.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Because we speak about him in the context of I wish Mr. Reiner could see me now when I get these awards, or when I graduated from medical school, or when I got my master's degree and I was a teacher myself.
SPEAKER_01Right, right.
SPEAKER_00You know, we would always say, Oh, where's Mr. Reiner now? But the reason you and I have talked about it ever since um speaking about that was that what if I wasn't the person that I turned out to be? Meaning. Meaning, what is it? What if I did not have a competitive spirit? Or what if I allowed Mr. Reiner being an influencer in my life and my teacher and someone that I should emulate and listen to? What if I started believing the negative things that he thought about me?
SPEAKER_01What what do you think made you not do that? What do you think made you not do that?
SPEAKER_00Well, a few things. One, I think that God has had his hand on my life for as long as I've been alive. So I think that he um has always meant good for me and wanted me and allowed me to live my fullest potential. And by su by doing so, he gave me the family that I have to push me to excellence. He equipped me with um the mental capacity to do that and a discerning spirit to pick friends who were um good for me in my life and people that I should follow. He gave me a loving husband who has faith in me and etc. So wow, but to for that to come up when Mr. Ryan has been a running joke in our lives to come up in a more serious moment was a little unexpected for me.
SPEAKER_01So I wonder, I wonder, Les, whether um whether have you ever like had any has that ever come up in in in counseling or any therapy that that you've had? Because it came out of nowhere. So I'm wondering, have you ever explored no I've never I've never thought about that.
SPEAKER_00Um like I said, the only time that I consciously thought or spoke about Mr. Reiner was in the joke.
SPEAKER_01Uh you know, that's our friendship circle joke. Right.
SPEAKER_00You know, Leslie's Mr. Reiner. But I really I think about the other Mr. Reyners in the world and how many people, the Mr. Reiners, and I'll put that in quote, quotes, how they've influenced so many people over the years and their lives, lives decisions, choices.
SPEAKER_01And they may not have had those things that you mentioned.
SPEAKER_00The gifts that I've been fortunate to have to steer us in the other direction or to turn his words into a joke rather than take it seriously.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and have it be something that kind of was like um reliving, reliving the the the negative. So um, so when you when you um God, I just lost my train of thought. I hate that. You know why? Because I was so like intensely listening to you. It'll come back. It always comes back.
SPEAKER_00But here's one thing that I was thinking, and when I was a high school teacher, yeah, that's it, if I could, because I'll forget again.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Okay. So you have mentioned a few times that the main reason why you um stopped being a teacher was because you um it it wasn't your passion and you decided that the students under your um your leadership deserved someone having passion.
SPEAKER_00Someone who had more passion about it than I did.
SPEAKER_01And do you think that subconsciously it was I'm not gonna be a Mr. Writer? No, no, you know.
SPEAKER_00It's funny. I'll never be that. I'll never be that. Um, he was certainly someone I did not want to copy, I'll tell you that. Um well, coming from a family of educators, I knew what good a good educator looked like. Right, right. And the conversations that we have had with my family over the dinner table about their educational endeavors, you know. Um, I didn't feel that in my heart. But I also knew of the teachers that I was blessed and fortunate to have that were the opposite of Mr. Reiner that were encouraging me and gave me the love of learning. And I mean, I just think about on our week-long trip, how many times did I mention the Pythagorean theorems? And so we are such nerds.
SPEAKER_01Such nerds.
SPEAKER_00We're talking to landscapers about putting up a fence, and part of my property is sloped. So I clearly saw that as the hypotenuse because we were trying to determine the height of the hill.
SPEAKER_01Right, right.
SPEAKER_00And I said we have to use, so we would determine.
SPEAKER_01What was the base what we were doing?
SPEAKER_00The landscape of this 25-year-old kid was looking at us like these women have lost their minds, and we were all into it. We made things to us. This is how you do it.
SPEAKER_01Which is to the line, which is the 90 degree. Shout out to Brooklyn Tech.
SPEAKER_00Shout out to Brooklyn Tech, Techno, Technology, Technology, but um, but I have memories of my teachers and instructors that I can visualize them in front of the class, you know, making education magic for me.
SPEAKER_01Right, okay.
SPEAKER_00And then too, I just remember how dark and miserable um being in Mr. Reiner's class. And like my only fun was sitting behind me and us like laughing at my friendship.
SPEAKER_01You didn't listen to him, or the mother didn't listen to him. That was another group.
SPEAKER_00So I knew that I wasn't giving my students what I had. And and plus I had this other thing, medicine pulling me outside of education. Right.
SPEAKER_01And that's why I'm right. Awesome. A couple things that come to mind. One is um how many names of teachers who had positive influences on you can you remember? That's not just put to put you on the spot, that is to have us really think about how we're wired for the things that hurt, the things that causes pain, or the, you know, when you when you um uh when you get your grades, for example, it's like your parents will look at it and say, oh, you got a 95, how come you didn't, how come you didn't get a hundred? Right? It's the part that it's kind of that um the the miss or the negative that gets the thing. And so I'm wondering whether um whether that, and you know, it's not like you have to answer it necessarily, but I I just kind of wanted to that thought came to me, yeah, that um that uh and and and maybe it is a um it's a recognition of something that we might want to change, you know, that we do put focus on the things that um it's um there's a whole area of psychology which is fairly new. I don't think it's more than a few decades old called called positive psychology. And where psychology had been how do you fix what's broken in a sense. Psychology. And then positive psychology is basically how do you accentuate what's working, what's working, what's working well, versus um um but it's like the um the Google reviews or things like that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, more people review negative experiences. No, we don't know. Not us.
SPEAKER_01Listen, we give positive reviews. It's like yes, we will take the time to give the review for um service providers or whatever. Yeah, positive. So I'll tell you some of the things that I thought about since that revelation that you had. I thought about um some of the people in my life who um took um a lot of effort to try to belittle me. Oh, yeah. And um fortunately, I couldn't think of a lot of people, but I did think of a uh a few people and uh call them out.
SPEAKER_00Call them out if you are listening. We're podcast co-hosts.
SPEAKER_01Um, well, unfortunately, one of them was um my first husband. Um, I won't call him by name, but you know Oh, I will. I will do it because because you you said that man. It's be he's become that man. Um and let me just say um through him I have the most amazing, amazing, amazing children that anyone could ask for.
SPEAKER_00I heard you say amazing three times. Oh you said amazing, amazing, amazing.
SPEAKER_01Yes, they are really um some of the biggest teachers in my life. Um and so I I just you know wanted to put that out there. Yeah. Um but you were talking about him. Yeah, but he um the word that he labeled me with for um a significant part of our marriage is loser. Loser. Can you believe that? Yeah. And um, you know, you you'd like to think that, yeah, but I didn't let that get to me. And but it of course it gets to you when that is how you're by the person that you're in partnership with, yeah, or um desire to be in partnership with, that that is what not only is thought of you, but that is what's said of you.
SPEAKER_00But where do you think that comes from or came from? Because he experienced you as a professional woman. Master's degree, earning money, a lot of money. Uh Ivy educated. Yeah, you know, but uh but um so where do you think mother of his three children, right? Right. Where would his perception of you you think come from? Um you know You know how they say sometimes like it's a mirror.
SPEAKER_01Sure, sure, sure. I I was thinking of that uh and wondering about um um Mr. Reiner's life, also actually.
SPEAKER_00But but what's funny about Mr. Reiner, I was always an A student.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I wasn't the student that got the 95s, I got the hundreds.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but the thing is the thing is that it has nothing to do with who we are. It's it's about them. It's about them. And so to answer your question, I think where that came from was projecting um accomplishments that he didn't have. And so it was a way of um, well, if I don't have these things, I'm going to belittle the person who does. Um, I think that that is what was going on in that situation.
SPEAKER_00Instead of eliciting your help. Well, he couldn't ask you for help because he had too much pride for that. Right, right, right, right, right, right, yeah, right, right.
SPEAKER_01But um it was something that um time and and um during that marriage is when my um my personal experience with Jesus Christ um became really strong. And so there's nothing that I would change because the result of all of that was a um a closeness to Christ that I'd never had before. Um and um that helped me a lot in kind of processing and understanding who I was, who I was in Christ, but and also who I was as a human being and so on. And um and that was a um that experience and and and being strengthened by that is something that I would never have um changed, given up. When you find yourself going from being in a state of mind where uh somebody else is controlling your emotions um to feeling like you're living such a principled life that your children aren't seeing you um change your countenance when your husband comes home, right? In being in joy with them, and then when dad comes home, everything kind of gets And sullen and just based on how he's feeling, or joyous and happy based on how he's feeling. And so um it was really um uh a transformational time in my life when I realized that um trying to please was a very different thing than trying to bless someone. Pleasing someone and kind of getting into that enabling thing um is is is what I changed. And it became more that um blessing someone sometimes means saying no you're not gonna um it's not okay for you to treat me this way, right?
SPEAKER_00Um but how did you come to that?
SPEAKER_01Well, I came to that because I started to realize the magnitude of my value. You know, I started to realize that um uh what he saw uh what he saw in me had zero to do with who I was.
SPEAKER_00And it's so funny that you say that because while you're speaking, I'm thinking the same thing. Yeah, and I think this is why I never really held any ill will toward Mr. Reiner. Mr. Reiner. Instead, he just became a joke. Oh no, no, really, and that's why I didn't personalize it. Remember the YouTube interview we were listening to with Barbara Walters and Dolly Parton.
SPEAKER_01Dolly Parton, my favorite, yes.
SPEAKER_00So remember how Barbara Walters was essentially insulting her and calling her a joke again. Yes. Aren't you a joke and you're a hillbilly and what have you? And Dolly Parton never broke her countenance and she never dropped down, she always stayed poised because she says that she it seemed like she felt like I never took this woman seriously. Right. She said in in the interview, I know who I am. I know who I am. So she never took that on, and I think that's why I never, you know, succumbed or felt that way, you know, or really was beaten down by that man, even as a 10-year-old.
SPEAKER_01Right, right.
SPEAKER_00So when you say that about the state of your marriage, I get it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And and I think for um uh it's certainly in this case, I was much older than 10. But when you are in an intimate um partnership, and when your expectations of marriage look a certain way, yeah, yeah. And when you're not sure if it's you, you know what I mean? And that's the problem, yeah, yeah. Right. And then um, I know for me, I was always um considering what are my children um taking away from this. Um it took me a while. It took me a while to um, and by the grace of God, reach the point where I was like, what the what? This is not the way that it's supposed to be. This is not the way that I'm supposed to feel. This is not um, you know, um this is all his his stuff and and not mine. Um but it did, it did um take take a lot for me to get there. Um, but the change was fundamental. It wasn't like a him and her.
SPEAKER_00And once I knew a change in you also, because when you you know told me that you were divorcing, you the two of you were separating and you were leaving the state and going elsewhere, it wasn't with that umbrella of melancholy, you know. Yeah, I was resolved, it was resolute, and you were you and the children were looking forward to you know this new type of thing.
SPEAKER_01There's so much that was unknown when I look back. Exactly. There was so much that was unknown, but I knew everything. I knew that I was gonna be taken care of. I knew that um that there was better and solid, and that I never I never questioned, despite all of the stuff.
SPEAKER_00So I have a question for you. Do you think that the labels or the mislabeling that your ex-husband um heaped on you? Do you think that that was any motivation for your future success in corporate, in your business, um, in entrepreneurship, parenting, you know?
SPEAKER_01Probably. I mean, I I I really I changed. A lot of it was um uh you know, I I obviously I was an adult when when we met, but it's like I achieved another level of um uh self self-love and um self-acceptance and so on, um, which propelled me into what was next. And deeper in your faith, as you of course, of course. That was the at the core of all of it. At the core of all of it, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But Ange, you know what else that brings up, and I think that this is the most important point about why we're speaking about this, is that it makes us, it makes me more mindful of the things that I say to people. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00It makes me more mindful of how I speak to my patients.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00If I want to encourage a patient, or if I want to um educate a patient, I have to be careful and think about what are some of the messages that would be most effective. Right, okay. And and and have the most longevity with them. Because remember, the population of people that I'm speaking to are often ill, they're often troubled, they are often certainly distracted, and perhaps the last thing they want to hear is my advising them to stop smoking.
SPEAKER_01Or chastising them, or yeah.
SPEAKER_00Right, right. So I have to be mindful of my presentation.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Because we hear certain things in certain ways, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um I was also thinking about um how powerful words are. Remember that we used to say sticks and stones can break our bones, but words can never hurt us. Um, I was thinking about that and the idea that words can actually kill. And can I go off on a little tangent? Oh. May I? I it wouldn't be you if you didn't. So seriously, seriously, right? When you think about um someone like Emmett Till words, that woman's words about her lie about what he did and who he was, and you know, led to his um murder is is is not even the story. His his um lynching. His lynching, his torturing, um the the the lack of uh humanity of any uh level that he was given uh was the result of this person's words about what he what he did to her. Um so words words can kill. And she came to mind really because I won't even call her name, um, but she recently died, and you you all probably know that um she recanted, she um recanted her um her lie. She recanted what she said that he um uh spoke to her inappropriately, which led to um um these these men uh murdering him. And she died recently, and so she's kind of been in the back of my mind, not her, but the idea that um words are so powerful, and people just use them to with with with so little regard. That's where my mind went as we were talking about um Dr. Reiner after the um the podcast.
SPEAKER_00Don't call him Dr.
SPEAKER_01Reiner. I keep saying Dr. Reiner, I don't Mr. Reiner, fuck Mr. Reiner. We will we will mark this as um Adult content. Adult content because of your He really deserves that. He really deserves that. So have you considered forgiveness?
SPEAKER_00What do you mean?
SPEAKER_01Do you have unforgiveness in your heart for Mr. Reiner?
SPEAKER_00Wait, um let me just hold for a second. You sounded like the end of a church sermon, like when my pastor would be at the pulpit and it's the end, you know, and he's about to do the altar call. The altar call, but before after his sermon, he says. So do you have forgiveness?
SPEAKER_01Okay, so that's what you sounded like. That's all right. I'm sorry. Do you have do you have forgiveness? No, but seriously, right? Because we all know that forgiveness is not for the person who caused the wrong, forgiveness is for the person who is um I I'll tell you why I don't I don't even think that's applicable in this case.
SPEAKER_00Okay. And let me tell you why. Because I did not spend 50 years being angry or upset with Mr. Reiner. Okay. And I think maybe it's indicative of the my lifelong nature of being jovial and light-hearted and glass half full kind of lady. Sunshiny.
SPEAKER_01And sunshine, whatever.
SPEAKER_00So I never thought that I felt the weight of that on me.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00You know?
SPEAKER_01Right, right.
SPEAKER_00Um, so I was never upset with him enough that I had anything to forgive. Are you now? I'm now. No.
SPEAKER_01You're forgiven and everything.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you're forgiven, but still, you know. I remember one time we were joking, we've been joking about this man for a long time, but um I never met the guy. But I just remember saying, like, I'm I'm glad he's dead, you know. I mean, the man was a 50 and 60 years old, 50 and 60 years ago. At the right moment. As a 10-year-old, he probably was 30. He could still be up. All right, they tell you here's what I'm saying. Bring it in, bring it in. Well, I go ahead. You want to say something? I'm gonna look him up. Okay. I'm gonna look him up. I'm gonna I'm gonna find out more about Mr. Rhino. Okay. Wouldn't that that interest me? Could you imagine? You should maybe What if I found like his relatives, like his children, and what? This is like a uh Lewis Gates moment. Like let's go back and I can't believe I just said that.
SPEAKER_01Let's do it.
SPEAKER_00Let's do it. I I mean he's you know, part of the New York City public school system. He was. And he's let's do it.
SPEAKER_01Let's get to the bottom of it. We it may explain why he had this way of seeing it.
SPEAKER_00What if he they found out like he was fired for impropriety or what have you, you know, like for. I wasn't thinking that. No, no, no. I don't mean impropriety, but I'm like, like he just messed up with too many people's minds. Okay. And it's like, you're out of, you're out of here. You're out of here.
SPEAKER_01Okay. I think we should. I think that's a great idea. I think that's a great idea. I think that's a great idea.
SPEAKER_00Unbelievable. So listen. Stay tuned. Season four. Season, listen. No, not season four. Not season four. We will return of Mr. Rhiner. Okay, guys.
SPEAKER_01No, Mr. Reiner explained. Mr.
SPEAKER_00Riner explained. We'll make it scholarly.
SPEAKER_01Okay, all right.
SPEAKER_00So um you know what? This has been another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
SPEAKER_01Brooklyn. See you next time.
