Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
This is what the world needs now: two free-thinking “seasoned” Black women speaking their truth and inspiring others to do the same. Shaped by 45 years of friendship that began at the prestigious Brooklyn Technical High School through the Ivy League, medical school, marriages, divorces, triumphs, parenting queer children, life-threatening illness and many many amazing adventures. Each week, besties Leslie Osei-Tutu and Angella Fraser will push against boundaries in love, culture, careers, faith, politics and out-dated assumptions about women of a certain age. Remember, you’re never too old to change your mind…or your hair! (but more on that later :-)All views are our own and do not reflect the views of our institution/company. Information provided is not intended to serve as medical advice.
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
Ho Ho Humbug
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Hope your Christmas Day - if it’s your tradition - was everything you hoped.
Leslie struggles with this season and couldn’t be happier that January is almost here. No, she’s not particularly looking forward to starting a new year, rather she's thrilled that the Christmas season is drawing to a close. In this episode Leslie explains to Angella her “scrooge-esque” reticence to celebrate the joys of the season and why she thinks there needs to be a complete paradigm shift in the way that we celebrate the birth of Our Saviour. Angella on the other hand urges her bestie to consider some of the older traditions and reminisce about some of the joyful memories that they hold.
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Visit Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn website for behind-the-scenes extras.
Hey Ang. Hey Les, how you doing? I'm doing good. Look at you. You you you purposely put on colors similar to mine. Oh, I did not.
SPEAKER_00I did not. All right. Just seems that way. Coincidence.
SPEAKER_05Just coincidence. Coincidence. It's a coinciding. There you go. Well, welcome to another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn. Brooklyn.
SPEAKER_00So this is what's up. Leslie has a problem. She's got a problem. And we talked about it like at the end of one of our podcast recordings. And we decided that we weren't finished talking about it. So you're gonna you're gonna hear that piece of the conversation, and then you're gonna hear um the rest of our all of our considerations around this topic. Okay, here goes. It's December.
SPEAKER_05It is. I have to bring up a pet peeve. Actually, it's way more than a pet peeve.
SPEAKER_00Okay, Les. Are you are you keeping track of the time? Do we have time to go into this?
SPEAKER_05Because this gets really okay. It's it's a brief thing. I'm not gonna get into it. It'll probably come up.
SPEAKER_00I might want to get into it.
SPEAKER_05Go ahead. I'll try to contain myself. Go ahead. I would like to skip over the month of December.
SPEAKER_00You're such a scrooge.
SPEAKER_05Exactly. And it's becoming more and more serious as I think about it. I used to say, oh, I'm just a Scrooge. I'm just a Scrooge. But now I really dislike the holiday season.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
SPEAKER_05That's seeing the lights up annoys me. Listening to holiday music at work today.
SPEAKER_00It was like, oh see, I'm not with you all the time to know this, that it has gotten this bad. What?
SPEAKER_05It's getting worse, actually. And I gotta, I don't know, maybe something I need to talk to somebody about. But I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. You talked about money. I think that it's it's the embodiment of the hypocritical society that I exist in.
SPEAKER_04I see. Okay.
SPEAKER_05To say that we are celebrating Christmas and religious holidays and Hanukkah and Kwanzaa, which is not a religious holiday, but a gift giving uh season. Right. When it's just a doggone money grab. I almost cursed as now. It's just a money grab. And to veil it in tradition and family and religiosity and the birth of Christ and baby Jesus. And it's such a crock of lies instead of just saying this is the season that we want you all to empty your doggone pockets, go broke for six months, put it on cards, put it on layaway, make guilt you into getting gifts that people don't want or need. And it's the spirit of the birth of Christ. Right. Just say that we want your money, and December is the month to do it. Yeah. Okay. You know, so whenever I listen, I hear the music, when I see the lights, and just I'm bombarded with I I could, could, can't go into a store or supermarket or a store, you know, because it's like this and this, and every email is oh, Black Friday, and oh Giving Thursday, and oh Cyber Monday, and Small Store Saturday, and okay.
SPEAKER_04Can I give you some? Shall I stop now?
SPEAKER_00I'm so miserable these days. Your point was made clear. Let me give you another perspective, Les.
SPEAKER_05Okay, please help me with this because I can't really see it any other way.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I won't go into it too deeply. And I'm gonna try to connect it back to what you were talking about before, even though you were pretending that it wasn't related. But people are like suffering. This is a sad time for people, a wrong time for people. You already fit said you were done.
SPEAKER_05Oh okay.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Listen.
SPEAKER_05Step off my soapbox. Okay.
SPEAKER_00So it's interesting because it is it's kind of like a um a a yes and I'm not gonna disagree that that that is not what um a lot of what Christmas is. But it is so much more. And so you kind of lumping, you know, I want December to go away, and that kind of and I'm gonna walk through, and when I see lights, I'm gonna it's it doesn't mean the same thing to to everyone. And and whole hear me out. And the fact that there are a lot of different ways that people exchange, um, exchange gifts. People don't always go out and buy to exchange gifts, they make things for their for their family. I know I'm gonna be doing a lot of making of gifts because I'm so gifted. Uh-uh. Um, you know, so and some people do celebrate the birth of Christ. It is about the reason for the season. It is about um praying for peace on earth and and the um the remembrance of who he is in our lives. And so don't we do that all the time? But Les, yeah, we don't wait till December to do that. But hold on. You don't celebrate, you don't celebrate he is written, he is risen on any day but Easter. What do you what do you mean? Oh, okay, okay. I'm just saying there there are times, there are rituals, there are times when we celebrate certain things, birthdays or whatever. Right, but we but society that I live in, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Where where do I live?
SPEAKER_00Do I live in a different society?
SPEAKER_05You're in another world because you're not seeing what I'm seeing. Wait, you're not hearing what I'm hearing.
SPEAKER_00Are you in the world where many people would do what you did, or are you in the world? Because your world seemed to be different. Which world do you mean I'm in a different world? Yeah, you seem to be one foot is in the world where people would do what you did, say that I hit the car, pay for it, not a problem, Zelle. One foot isn't in that world, and the other foot is in the ah, I hate Christmas, throw it all away. This is all bullshit. Like, where are you? Who are you? Who the hell are you?
SPEAKER_05Well, no, because the reason, the reason that I can't appreciate the Christmas season is because it's really a commercial industry.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I get that. But Les, don't you don't have to let that be that way for you. You don't have to let that be that. It isn't for me because it isn't for me.
SPEAKER_05Because I don't buy gifts and do all of that stuff. I get it.
SPEAKER_00But it's you are allowing me. You are allowing those things to completely remove the joy that you might have for the season where we celebrate.
SPEAKER_05Because I'm surrounded by liars, people saying that it's that their heart is in one place when it's really in another.
SPEAKER_00First of all, you don't know people's intentions, so don't say that. I know Macy's and and and yeah, fine. That's fine, fine, but um, you don't know people's intentions. Some people's intention as an entrepreneur myself, some people's intentions is I want to create this thing so that people can change their lives by doing this. And it's not about I don't care who buys it, I don't care. Some people are doing it because they want to help other people with their gifts, with their talent. But only in December. I get gifts all year long. What are you talking about? It's not in it's not only in December, but if that's the time when when people are exchanging gifts and you're selling something, well, what's the there's like, I don't think you have to be all one way or all the other way. I think there's a middle that you're just not willing to see. You're like going back down into the depths. You would not like have this be a special time where you um a particular time, because in in the way that you and I were raised, regardless of when the actual date of his birth is, we were raised with December being the the the time that we celebrate the birth of Christ. So it it is a point on the calendar. Why would you be willing to throw all of that away because of the of the parts that you don't like? You can you can do both. You can not like a part of it and and embrace a part of it. I'm worried. I'm worried.
SPEAKER_05I'll think about it.
SPEAKER_00I'm really worried.
SPEAKER_05I'll think about it, but I guess I'm just so deep in it. Deep in my dislike of it then.
SPEAKER_00I am so worried because when I can turn around. When I was in um New York a couple weeks ago and we went to dinner, and there were some beautiful lights.
SPEAKER_01You were like, ah, I hated. Oh, look at me.
SPEAKER_05I got the tick now. It's like the lights bother me, the music father's meeting. They were so at one of my um sites I cover, and they're like, oh, we're doing Secret Santa. You want to sign up? No, I don't do that. Let me tell you something that no, I don't do that.
SPEAKER_00Let me tell you something that happened today, and this is another circle back, right? So I was telling you about Isaiah, right? So I don't know why Isaiah always FaceTimes me now. He never just calls, it's always a FaceTime. Occasionally he'll text. Occasionally it's always FaceTime. Anyway, he FaceTimes me.
SPEAKER_05He wants to see his mama.
SPEAKER_00I'm I'm happy about it, very happy, except I can't always take another call, you know. Anyway, so he says, um, he says, um, Mom, what is that um Christmas song that um you'd always play when I was growing up? And I was like, which one? Can you give me a hint? He was like, I don't, I don't know the name of it, but used to play it a lot. And and I know one of the one of the Christmas CDs that I would play a lot was Vanessa Williams's um Christmas um CD. Love it, love the songs, whatever. But you know, Isaiah's five years younger than Johnny, so I, you know, I I don't know whether it's something kind of Johnny has heard more.
SPEAKER_05Anyway, okay.
SPEAKER_00So I told him the name of the album, and I sang one of the songs that I actually remembered hearing in Isaiah's voice. Um and he said, Oh, that doesn't sound like it. So I I told him the name of the he sends me a voice, a voice message back and said, Mom, that's it. And I remember that every Christmas. I remember that when I was growing up, and it was so good to hear it again.
SPEAKER_05Aw. That's nice.
SPEAKER_00That was a song, and that's why my parents always played Christmas music. The the song that my mom used to sing so much, and I associate it with her every time I hear it, and it was a song that was I was able to get a response from her, even when she was almost um when she was dying of dementia. I would be able to sing um Oh holy night to her, yeah, and she would respond. That's how I knew that she could hear us.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So these traditions are not all about you know, all of that stuff that you mentioned, it's not that it's not true, but it's not only that for people.
SPEAKER_05It's it's I I get it because I have great memories of those um these holiday traditions.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I just feel, yeah, I don't know how the current situation has overshadowed that. I'm not sure why.
SPEAKER_00Find a way back to the center. Not not you don't have to go all the way here, but come on back, come on back a little bit.
SPEAKER_05I used to joke about it, but it's it's pretty serious now.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I know, I could tell. Yeah, I could tell.
SPEAKER_05Anyway, I guess we'll continue this, but we gotta close.
SPEAKER_01Merry Christmas, Norman. Yeah. Sleigh bells fridge. You're a mean one. Oh, you know those, huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, thanks for hanging with us.
SPEAKER_05So you asked me to think about it, right? You asked me to give it a little bit more thought. So why are you laughing?
SPEAKER_00Because you already know what I'm about to say. I just I'm looking forward to it. I'm just looking forward to it. That's all.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Sadly, I'm still the Scrooge. I'm still the Grinch.
SPEAKER_00I had so much, I had so much confidence in you.
SPEAKER_05Not only am I still the Scrooge Grinch, but I'm the Scrunch. The Scringe. Leslie the Scringe.
SPEAKER_00I'm doubling down on it. Yeah. I don't understand. Here's what I'd hoped. Here's what I'd hoped. Okay. Um, you know, and and really all all jokes all jokes aside for just two minutes, and then the jokes can come down like so Les, when I saw your face as you started talking about it, like your whole countenance changed. It's not just what you were saying, like it showed up in your whole body. And so Yeah, I wasn't kidding. I know you're not kidding, but like you're really upset, and I I'll I'll hear what you have considered and why you still feel that way before I say anything about maybe doing an intervention.
SPEAKER_05Okay, a couple things. First of all, was Ebenezer Scrooge a real gal? I don't he was I don't even remember that he did the show very much. It was I I think it was based on he might have been based on, you know, character, but I think he's a character written by one of the famous writers, but we can put that in our episode notes. But anyway.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's um the guy who did Ebenezer, I mean, um Oliver Twist and I I think so, right? Yeah. So anyway.
SPEAKER_05So the more I thought about it, you know, based on our conversation, our prior conversation. You know, I I was watching a um a show recently, and the character was reacting to a guy that was always mean, and she said, Who hurt you?
SPEAKER_00I'm laughing at someone getting hurt.
SPEAKER_05No, I'm not so so when you said like Les, you're really serious about it, and and and I am, but I don't think that it's because I was hurt by anything around Christmas. But what I I think it came out because the our family ritual got spread out and diluted. And I think that's what happened with you know, when Nana Ruby was around, we would she was the keeper of the holidays and the celebrations, you know, right? And every single person in the family's birthday, we all had to make time and gather to enjoy the cake that she made.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_05Even if it was for an hour, you know, it was known that on every birthday everyone got together. And every Thanksgiving and the holiday we did at Fanana. And I think a lot of those celebrations we changed from outward celebrations to like more inward and low-key, and then we all spread out a little bit more or got too busy or something like that. So and certainly as the children grew up and became adults, we really kind of stopped the ritual of the Christmas and the tree and the lights, and then more recently in my own home, I seemed to be the only one that was carrying the tradition. You know, I was the one that would go in the basement and get all the lights and the decorations and decorate the house and all of this. And as lovely as it is, or it looked or was, then it was I was the only one that was taking the stuff down and putting you know what I mean? It became Leslie's chore.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_05So I kind of think the the joyful wonder of the season um became a little bit more diminished and then overshadow shadowed by what I thought was the shameful commercialism of it all.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00But it looks like when you think about um what Nana um what Nana Ruby had created in the traditions was something that you enjoyed, right?
SPEAKER_05Even though Yeah, you know, and I'm glad that you prompted me to remember that because I hadn't thought about the those traditions, our family traditions for a while, you know, and the joy and the warmth and the smells of the home and things like that. I really hadn't thought about that. So thank you for pushing me to go there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Um you know, perhaps I could see um recreating some other type of family loving ritual. Not necessarily like it was before, but just to bring a little bit more of that into the season.
SPEAKER_00Right. Maybe that's an idea. Because that's what um that's what rituals, when they're at their best, that's what they do. They ask us to put the world and the kind of hectic nature of some of our lives and put that aside for this special thing. And it's it's a time of it's almost like um mini reunions a few times out of the out of the year, right? Um and it's kind of like that's the that's the beautiful thing about rituals, and then when they're gone you uh you I really miss them. We we didn't have a whole lot of rituals in our family to to be honest. We did um get together. Um Easter was a thing, and when we were younger, we would do the eggs and stuff because I was really into anything having to do with with paint and color um and trying new things.
SPEAKER_05And then as I remember Nana Ruby's baskets, she made one for like each of us. It was just so great.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and um when I was really very active as a leader in our church, especially with the um children's ministry, um I would do Easter, but really focused on um on Christ and and his his journey versus the Easter bunny and things like that. So I guess what I'm saying is that these rituals have um have a purpose. It's kind of this this connective tissue. And um I feel really sad that not only are they gone, because that would be even that wouldn't Even be neutral that they're they're gone. Um, but now they've become this humbug for you, which is completely like it's it's deep into the negative. It's not even like surface around negative five. It sounds like negative 100. And so I think that there is more to it. Um, I think there's more of what's going on. I don't know if it's that you were the only one doing this stuff because your home looked beautiful when it was decorated for the holidays. And I get it that that it's hard to be the one I would make the kids do it, you know, even when it was no longer kind of this really fun family thing. It's like, okay, it's time to treat it's time to put up the tree. And things were pretty well organized in our attic. Um, and so I would decide because my stuff was kind of color coordinated, because I would change the colors um every Christmas or so until I had maybe five different color themes. And so I remember I remember I had a um green and kind of brownish, I had a blue and white, I had um the red and and tan and all kinds of things. And so I decide which boxes to come down, but the kids helped me to do it and to take them down. So, but so I understand that having to do it by yourself.
SPEAKER_05So but you know what, as you were thinking, yeah, yeah, the the chore of it can be daunting, but I I'm not I I I think there's more. Okay. Okay, let's go deep. I'm pushing myself now. Okay, good, good. As a child, Christmas is obviously less about for a child, I mean the religiosity and the um spiritual part of it, and more about the material and the toys, which is joyful and wonderful.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_05As I got older, naturally moving from the toys, even as a Christian, I don't think I fully replaced the season from material toys to Christ's birth.
SPEAKER_03Got it.
SPEAKER_05And I think as a result of that, I allowed the outside sources and the media and the commercialism to replace the season instead of transitioning to an adult understanding of the meaning of the season.
SPEAKER_03Got you.
SPEAKER_05So I really think I left that part out of my spirit and let the outside commercials and stuff as disturbing and difficult as it was to me to think about, right? Because I think about some of the difficulty of the season, superimposed with all the spending and this and that. So, like people um who who have a lot of grief during the season, just not just grief, but people who are uh impoverished and and um with financial difficulty, um feeling that obligation to spend in order to receive love or to you know that people I don't believe that we're able to disconnect the giving with the sentimentality of it.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Tell me a little what what do you mean?
SPEAKER_05I you gotta give a gift lest they don't think that I love them or care for them. I see as the way to show your love. So you feel so much pressure. I um I was I had occasion to go to the mall today because I bought some things for Aiden and I saw people of all you know types and whatever, you know, laden with their bags and purchases. And I just um one of them um I think was a old navy bag. And I was thinking, like, I wonder who's gonna get those things. Do they really need it? You know, um, did the person overspend? Did they buy out of obligation, you know, for the Secret Santa? Do they, you know, it's are the gifts from the heart?
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_05Or they f or are they out of obligation? You know how I am about living honestly and being authentic.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And I wonder if the gift giving comes from an authentic place or from an obligatory place.
SPEAKER_03Gotcha. You know, okay, yeah, I I get that.
SPEAKER_05And and if it if it's the former, great. But if it's not, and I think very very often it's not. It's because you signed up for the secret Santa or because you're going over to Auntie's house and you have to you can't go without a gift.
SPEAKER_00Right. But even but even that, Les, like um even that, you signed up for the Secret Santa or you're going over to Auntie's house, so you have to have a gift. Um it's it's a beautiful thing to give a gift and to receive a gift. It's um it's this beautiful uh exchange. So I think what I'm saying is that it's a it's a yes and, it's not an either or. Like both things can coexist in this uh season. One doesn't have to be well, if you're doing that, you're doing it out of duty. That's okay if if it is a way for you to step back for a little bit and acknowledge someone else and say, I'm I'm doing this for you. It may be the only time in the year um, you know, there's an opportunity to to get together. And even just this, just the idea of of uh giving something to someone else, I don't see that as this thing that we should run away from. I think it's you know, the giving and receiving of gifts is is a beautiful thing.
SPEAKER_05Theoretically it is. I I am trying to turn away from the obligation to do it because as you know, and I think maybe that's where my stance comes from. As you know, I give all year long, right? And I intentionally don't give for this season as my protest, right? You know, because I am or I try to be so giving all year long, right?
SPEAKER_00Um and that's a and that's an option.
SPEAKER_05I prefer uh a gift of your presence or your company. Um, you know, you show me love not by giving me a pair of slippers, but because you're in my home eating food that I cooked specifically for you or something, you know what I mean? I when you say everybody loves gifts, I don't love necessarily to receive gifts.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think made okay, let's dig at the game. Let's dig at that.
SPEAKER_05Oh, now we're getting a little psychological.
SPEAKER_00Let's dig at that because um because I think that's a part of maybe why you feel this way. Well, it doesn't mean anything to me, and therefore um if it means something to you, it's only because there's a sense of there's a sense of duty. You know what I mean? It's like um, and if I want to give you a pair of slippers or I want to put a cap on a gift at $25 like they do with Secret Scent or $20, whatever it is, um then But why I don't see but why I don't want to keep us to keep going circle in circles with this, but why sh give me the gift or show me you appreciate me in December when you can do it from December uh January 1st to November 30th?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. The answer is love me at that at that point, as as people do.
SPEAKER_00Yes, they do, they don't only do it then. Um I don't even want the slippers. I have all the slippers I need. I and and there's another thing, it's what you have, and not it's like you're I'm seeing that you're thinking of this from the perspective of you, and it's your decision, obviously, so it could be, but I'm just saying it doesn't mean the same thing to everyone else, right? It's not like um, and the reason why, why not the rest of the the time? Um, I'm assuming that you don't mean that people are mean to you and only want to give you something in December.
SPEAKER_05No, when I they they love on me all year long, so they don't do it when well December though is because it's it's going back, it's because it's the it's the tradition.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think traditions um can be a very um are can be a very important part of society. I I have certain traditions, you know what I mean? And um Yeah, sometimes that person that's like the only gift they're getting is the one you're giving.
SPEAKER_05I'm just saying at what point Well I'll put a pin there because this is a little bit different, what I'm gonna say. At what point and how do we as a society acknowledge the pain of the season? You know, the people, the multitudes of people who don't have um ability to give gifts or will not receive gifts. Or, you know, there's a lot of sadness associated with this uh season that people don't acknowledge. You know, I think that it's almost um I wouldn't use the word cruel because that's way too um intentional, but it's it's I can only imagine the difficulty of watching television at this season when you don't have the ability to give gifts to your children, and it's commercials and the children are making lists and things like that. As you know, I used to uh answer letters for at the post office for the Secret Santa, you know, and the things that the children you would ask for, yeah um it's incredible, you know, it's incredible. And when the children would ask for the latest gaming system, it which might have been expensive or hard to get or whatever, I did my best to get just the things that they asked for and not substitute just to keep that magic alive, you know. Right. It's like I asked for a Nintendo, but here I got a doll instead. It's like, no, Santa gives you what, you know, but um, but not a lot of people, you know, it's I don't know.
SPEAKER_00It's I know. I I I get it. I just don't want you to um throw it all away because as you know, um even though everyone's need is not going to be met, there are a lot of people who do. I used to do the angel giving too. There are a lot of people who give to um those who would otherwise not have gifts during the season. There are people who work at um shelters and things like that at this time, knowing and so it's December, that's when they're doing it because this is where there's an increased um need for connection for people. Um so how about this? Yes, let's just uh just a thought, just uh let's uh picture this.
SPEAKER_05Picture this if we took the pressure of the concentrated month of giving, right? And instead of that, the giving the turkeys and things like that, um I I completely um agree with people giving food to people who are um food insecure. But if instead of saying let's just put all of our efforts into this Christmas December giving, and instead did it all year long plus okay, think about that, right?
SPEAKER_00The expectation is that um again, it's a tradition. The expectation is that because given is a burden too, meaning that it takes effort to take time away from family, away from um, I'm I'm saying to people who are less fortunate now, um, take time maybe away from from work. Um so you want them to do it all year.
SPEAKER_05I'm just I'm just like saying be a giver in your life and not feel the obligation to give one one time of one season of the year, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh okay. I see it as um I see it as give when you feel led to give. Yeah. When whenever that is, and if that is around Christmas time, because again, things are kind of acute at that time, and that's when you um getting your little your little bonus. Maybe you have a little few extra coins to rub together, or you're baking, you can make an extra cake, or your family's in town, and you can all go together um to the um uh to the homeless shelter.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but those things that you describe, they're not happenstance that you happen to have a bonus in December, or you happen to be baking in December. You have these things because it's the time of giving. It's it's the prescribed Les, but it's okay.
SPEAKER_00It is it is December 25th, is it? I don't even remember anymore. Yeah, yes, is um for Christians that is the birth of the savior. You cannot erase that that is, and as the story goes, there are three wise men who come bearing gifts. Exactly.
SPEAKER_05Um which part of that did society snatch out in a big thing.
SPEAKER_00But what I'm saying is that it will happen in December. Not the birth. It will happen in December, right? It's not gonna not happen in December. Even if gif giving happens at other, it is also gonna happen in December. Yeah. So that tradition is not going away. You're setting yourself up for failure if you think that that um all of what you're expressing around commercialism and all of that, and I hope you know I don't disagree with the over-commercialized and the pressure and and all of that stuff as a parent, um felt it, moved on, did it differently sometimes, didn't do it differently sometimes. Um but the December season, it's that's not going anywhere.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And there are, you can focus on what's happening in your religious community. You can focus on the reason for the season, and that's okay to do it in December.
SPEAKER_05And and I'd advocate, I guess I could, here's how I'll be persuaded to move. Yeah. To to move um to take my mind off of rejecting the commercialism part of it or rejecting the season because of the commercialism and move more toward the spiritual uh traditions around the season.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And perhaps I can um separate the two and still have some appreciation for it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'd love to see you do that.
SPEAKER_05To concentrate on because um I've really just been turning my back away from it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I'd love to see you do that, Les, because it's just like when people um misuse or or or taint who we know Christ to be in different ways, and we resist that. We s we stand up for um who how we experience Christ as love and and inclusive and um yeah, you know, not in a us versus them way, and we stand in that. Stand in what that is for Christmas, you know, and don't let it become this thing that um allows the commercialism to rob you of the celebration of um Christ as we believe it, um being the birth of a virgin mother and and um get emotional about that. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's very touching. I when I um I remember once you and Omari came down for um Christmas and New Year's, I think it was mostly New Year's, but um we definitely went to church and had just a really, really beautiful sentimental time. Um with our faith being center. Yeah. Um, and I don't want you to not have that because of all the other stuff that's going on. And it's plenty. And it's you know, I don't do a lot of shopping like that um anymore. But the other day when I was preparing to go to New York, I I did go in the store and oh my gosh, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't. The line was so long, thank goodness it was. It's overwhelming. It's I was in shock. I actually said, oh, this is what Leslie talked is talking about, because you go shopping, you know? Like um, but I hadn't really experienced that um in a in a long time during the holiday season. If I do it, it's once in a while I buy stuff online and so on. Um so I got a taste of it and I was like, oh, let's see. But I love lights, I love the twinkly lights, I love that there is um there's just this time of levity and and and and brightness, and you know, you look over and you see these um these these symbols of of joy and peace.
SPEAKER_05All right.
SPEAKER_00Um there's so many.
SPEAKER_05I'll I'll try to change my perspective. That would be good. We'll agree to that.
SPEAKER_00That would be great. That would be great. I'm still gonna give you Christmas gift, but I'm gonna get you those nice slippers that you I'll get you those really nice slippers in two different colors that you'll then re-gift.
SPEAKER_05All right, all right. So I gotta, we got from now, we got about a week, a little less than a week before Christmas. Yep. So um I'm gonna stop walking into the OR having conversations that start like um how do you handle lying to your children about Santa?
SPEAKER_01No, Leslie. Oh no, Leslie, no. I'm like, do you tell your children that this is a big thing?
SPEAKER_00You're gonna put pepper sauce on your out. They're gonna put pepper sauce on your lunch. Don't worry. I'm gonna stop doing that.
SPEAKER_05I'm gonna zip it.
unknownThank you.
SPEAKER_00Merry Christmas. Thank you, Jesus. Thank you. Yes, please. Let's stop that right now.
SPEAKER_05All right. I'm glad we continued talking about it. Okay, me too.
SPEAKER_00This has been another episode of Black Boomer besties from Brooklyn with Scrooge and what um Pollyanna. I'm Pollyanna. All right. Bye, guys. Have a happy holidays.
SPEAKER_01Yes, Merry Christmas, happy new year, happy Kwanzaa. Hanukkah's over, but I'm all the things.
