Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
This is what the world needs now: two free-thinking “seasoned” Black women speaking their truth and inspiring others to do the same. Shaped by 45 years of friendship that began at the prestigious Brooklyn Technical High School through the Ivy League, medical school, marriages, divorces, triumphs, parenting queer children, life-threatening illness and many many amazing adventures. Each week, besties Leslie Osei-Tutu and Angella Fraser will push against boundaries in love, culture, careers, faith, politics and out-dated assumptions about women of a certain age. Remember, you’re never too old to change your mind…or your hair! (but more on that later :-)All views are our own and do not reflect the views of our institution/company. Information provided is not intended to serve as medical advice.
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
New Beginnings: Not All Rainbows & Unicorns So Find Anchors
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Have you ever wondered what it takes to reinvent yourself after decades of sticking to the same roles and routines? Besties Angella and Leslie, inspired by Dana Findwell's compelling video, "Not Too Late to Start Over: Finding Purpose After 40, 50, 60, or at Any Age," walk you through the exhilarating yet challenging experience of embracing new things at any age.
The ladies unravel some of the fears and anxieties that come with stepping into the unknown and encourage inquisitive older women to leverage their wisdom and skills as a springboard for new adventures. The conversation touches on embracing change and finding joy by venturing into the unfamiliar with boldness and curiosity.
Juiced Smoothie Bar & Spoken Word
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Embracing New Beginnings After Decades
Speaker 1Because we've talked about pivoting and those types of things . But when I heard that framing , that we're not used to , being a beginner Sure , and how much fear can come with that , we thought we should talk about it . Hey Ange , hey Les , how's it going Look ?
Speaker 2whenever I start , I do this . What is that about ? That's the joyful move . Hey , girl , hey .
Speaker 1What's up ? What's up on the something day ? Okay , we're here . Welcome to another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn . I'm Angela and that's my bestie of almost 50 years , leslie . Leslie and we started this podcast because we have deep conversations and we are pretty bold in our decisions , so we wanted to inspire inquisitive older women to do the same , to think deeply and to act boldly . If you are an inquisitive older woman , or if you love one , or if you want to become one , stay with us .
Speaker 2You'll be glad you did .
Speaker 1It is possible , yes . So today we're going to be talking about this video that I saw and I had to share it with Les , and she listened to it and , joyfully , there's so much , so much that we still need to work on , and so the video that I share with Leslie is called Not Too Late to Start Over Finding Purpose After 40 , 50 , 60 , or at Any Age , and it was by Dana Findwell , right , we'll put a link to it , of course , in the description , the piece of what she described that we wanted to kind of hook to and unpack is she said something , um , she said that we're not used to being a beginner , and that was like yeah , yeah because we've talked about pivoting and those types of things .
Speaker 1But when I heard that framing , that we're not used to , being a beginner , sure , and how much fear can come with that , yeah , and how much is you know of what you have been doing for years , for decades , for you know ? Yeah , only decades , right , we can't go any further than that Scores .
Speaker 1We've been doing things for scores I knew you were going to come up with one For scores that those things not only provide our wisdom and our grounding and our confidence , but they're also kind of holding us into this . I know how to do that . I don't know how to do that other thing . Right , I don't want to be a beginner again . Why should I , you know ? And so we thought we should talk about it .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah .
Navigating Fear and New Beginnings
Speaker 2And and a lot of what I got out of listening to the video was her entire framing of how , as you just said , she called it beginning other things , you know , and all of the anxiety and angst that comes along with those things , because you know me , I've always said it I don't like change . You know I really stay in my lane for a long time and this and that , even if it's less than ideal circumstances , I'd rather endure and then get whatever kudos and badge of honor from that the suffering , the long suffering , than change and perhaps experience something new . Yeah , but what I did think about Ange with that is that when we go into something that might be new , it's not really a beginning . You know why ? Okay , because it's something you taught me .
Speaker 2Yes what ? We bring our whole selves into a new circumstance . This is true , and nothing about my old self is new , nothing about this thinking right here . I haven't come up with any new ideas in years . No , stop it . No .
Speaker 1It's such a lie . No , but in all honesty you know , but we come in school . It's such a lie .
Speaker 2No , but in all honesty , you know , but we come , we carry our wisdom to us . I remember one of our prior episodes and I don't exactly remember who the guest was but we said but it was , we discussed that when we start new jobs and new opportunity , new employment opportunities , we are bringing our whole skillset with us .
Speaker 1Yeah , for sure you know , we don't leave them in our prior experiences .
Speaker 2Yes , so you know it's . That's something to think about .
Speaker 1Yeah , for sure , you know , what I was thinking of is how , like when you're , when you're in school and I remember my children and myself too , going from elementary school to middle school like how they had to , the fears that they had , and how they had to kind of sometimes this was with me , right , I know when I was leaving JHS 258 , your mother went to that school too in .
Speaker 1Brooklyn , jhs 258 . And I was going to Brooklyn Tech from there . It was almost like you have this opportunity to be new again , right ? So there's this fear around this new school , new people , new place , new expectations , all that stuff . All the fear , because it was real , and also the okay . What do I want to shed and how do I want to show up in this new place ? Right , whether it's , you know , I'm going to be the cool kid or I'm going to change the way that I dress , or I'm going to change my hair kid , or I'm going to change the way that I dress or I'm going to change my hair . Whatever it was , you had these opportunities but , oh my God , it came with so much fear and angst .
Speaker 1So the summers before a new school , I remember . Are they going to like me ? Am I going to fit in ? Let me tell you .
Speaker 2Will I have new friends ?
Speaker 1All the things , all the things . And you know the way that I grew up and I remember I always think about Kim , because Kim had a process for when she got like a new wardrobe , right , like her mother would say , okay , it's this time , whatever it was , let's say spring semester , whatever , you get new clothes , right , you go shopping and you get new clothes . That does not happen in a Jamaican household , not at that time .
Speaker 2I don't know what is different . I remember going with her . Her mother would give her time . I don't know what is different . Right , right , right , that's an American thing I remember going with her .
Speaker 1Her mother would give her money I don't know if it was on a card or cash or whatever and we would go to Macy's and buy clothes . I remember one time in particular , she bought this beautiful new coat , this wool coat , and I was simply tagging along . Had I money ? No , had .
Speaker 1I this mother who , you know , kind of had this routine . No , no , so it was for me , in terms of how my clothing would determine I would either make my clothes or , by the way , as an aside , I went to a spoken word event . It's a weekly event that a friend of mine shout out to Juiced , this amazing juice bar that holds open mic events on Thursdays , and so I was in the area , went and they played Strafe , remember ? Oh yes .
Speaker 2That's a whole other episode . Listen , guys , we have lived like five lives , we have farmed out our talents and we used to create design and create costumes . Like five lives have farmed out our talents . We did and we used to . We did Create design and create costumes for local performers in Brooklyn .
Speaker 1Lesange , lesange , lesange , whichever it was . So we made our performance costumes for them . We were maybe out of high school by then .
Speaker 2Not much out of . We couldn't have been out of high school because you were in Philadelphia in school .
Speaker 1I don't even know what we were thinking . Let's get back on track . No , it wasn't that , it wasn't . We were much younger than that . Yeah , we were , we were much younger than that . Anyway , so I digress , just coming back to the experience that I had around that making my own clothes , you know going thrifting , preparing for a new circumstance .
Speaker 1Exactly and just kind of figuring it out . And so , yeah , there was absolutely a lot of fear with that . So that came to mind , this idea of even though you know we always talk about , well , you do it anyway , you lean into fear . You not have the expectation of feeling fearless , because fear is always there , and those things . But I really wanted to acknowledge that it is scary and there is a and I heard what you said is scary and and there is a and I heard what you said and I don't disagree with what you said I think , and yes and um , it is there is a significant amount of beginning anew because you're using new muscle , right , the fear comes from unknowing , and so you have stuff that you have to kind of remind yourself . Hey , I'm bringing this with me , yes , and there are things that you don't know . You don't know how those skills kind of come together for this new thing . You don't know how you know what I mean , how comfortable you are , how ready those things are you know , so there's yeah .
Speaker 1So there was a lot of that that I was thinking about too , as she cause she did , you know , she was just trying new things . She'd been through two divorces , as have have I that's for another episode and she had lost her mom , and so life sometimes pushes you into circumstances where you have to do what is needed despite your fears . But I did totally feel the way that she framed it around , the fear being what is the term that you used being a beginner . Right , that feeling of being a beginner , so yeah , so let me ask you . I got to ask you Okay , what are some ways it could be just one , or it could be 10 , that you feel like you are still it's not something that you have in any way kind of worked through and you're , you know , you're you're . You have a establish a real level of comfort with this thing that you do , in fact , want to be different about . If that makes sense , okay , I'll ask it a different way .
Speaker 2And this is this is just how we talk If we're sitting next to each other in the car .
Speaker 1I'm like say it a different way . Ange , I'm not an imposter .
Speaker 2Okay , so we haven't arrived right in where we want to be in life .
Speaker 1Okay , there are things that we have made a lot of progress on and we're good and we'll continue to tweak , but there are things that we still struggle with , that we want to change Right and in . Is there anything that you would say feels like a new beginning for you ? Because it is something that you would be significantly changing about how you exist right now as a person ?
Speaker 2Wow . Well , there are quite a few things actually . I mean , you know , you just need one .
Navigating Work Changes and New Beginnings
Speaker 2I am planning on changing my work , or changing the way that I work . Oh , wow , okay .
Speaker 1So right now .
Speaker 2You didn't prepare me for that one Les you didn't prepare me Right now .
Speaker 1We both have to get used to that . Okay , go ahead , I work full time . We both have to get used to that .
Speaker 2Okay , go ahead , I work full time and I'm on call often . What does on call mean and how long and all of that ? Well , you guys know , everybody knows , because you guys follow us . I'm a physician , I'm an anesthesiologist and my office is an operating room . Funny story , actually . I'm going to digress for a second , another digression I have been really busy lately .
Speaker 2My life has been kind of topsy-turvy . I'm moving and doing different things , so I've just been , I think , burning the candle at two ends and I'm usually pretty good at multitasking , I would say . But my plan was to . I had a pretty complicated day of cases . You know a lot of different steps , orthopedic cases today . So my plan was to get to work at quarter to seven , at 645 . Operating room start at 730 . And I opened my eyes . I woke up this morning .
Speaker 1Something felt a little strange .
Speaker 2It was 655 . 10 minutes Was it .
Speaker 1What felt strange ?
Speaker 2Was it because you were Was that I was home . Under the covers in the bed , your toes were warm and I'm like wait a minute . So that's how my day started out today , and I think it is only the second time in over 20 years that I've overslept and had the whole operating room staff , surgeons , nurses , patients , whatever waiting for me , right , you know , because nothing starts until you go to sleep , right ? So that was strange . So I'm changing the way that I work . I no longer want to work full time , and for me , that's very interesting , because I still love , love , love my work , I love my patients , I love the interactions , I like doing what I do . It's just that I found that there are other things that I want to do and other things that I want to realize .
Speaker 1Right .
Speaker 2And because of that , the work has to change . I'm not going to work harder or longer . I want to work smarter and I can still , you know , dip my toes in and out of the operating room when I want to or need to , but so that's a little scary for me . Just it's bringing a lot of angst . You know , obviously , when you think about changing work and this and that it's like well , I like this , why would you leave something that you like ? You know that you enjoy .
Speaker 1Why would you leave something that ?
Speaker 2you enjoy .
Speaker 1Answer that question .
Speaker 2Well , because I know the nature of who I am , that I will also get into other things and experience it and like it . The other thing about me is that I am the type of person , as you already know , that I will try anything until it's proven that I'm unable to do it . So I know that if I leave my work , I can get back into it if I need to . They will always need a competent anesthesiologist , so I don't think that I would be burning any opportunities on my way out , right .
Speaker 1So that's actually because I know you're someone who really likes routine , likes security . So the fact that and this is really something that I want to just spend a little time on this and unpack it a little bit because you're still getting those things , those needs , satisfied , the need for security and routine , despite this big change , you're still getting them because you know you have that security and knowing that I can go back to work whenever I want or I can just choose where , how often , and so on .
Speaker 1So the need for security is still there , it's just looking different .
Speaker 2And that need for security is a big part of my personality and it's also what , I believe , makes me a good anesthesiologist , because when I walk into the operating room , it doesn't even matter what the type of surgery it is . I always have a plan A , and then I have a plan B , and then I have a plan C , so if something untoward goes on , you know , patients wonder well , how do you know what ? Well , this is what I would do next , and this is what I would do next .
Speaker 1You know so and that's the same thing .
Speaker 2If , going forward into another opportunity , I don't believe I'm going to work . I don't think I'm going to work at all . I think that I'm really going to play . You know , I'm going to just see what it feels like to not have to wake up at 5.15 in the morning .
Speaker 1You know , startled out of bed Running , ripping and running .
Speaker 2The good thing about when you oversleep you're wide awake in seconds . The adrenaline , there's no dragging and like no one more cover over . You're like I'm up , oh my goodness , but anyway , oh my goodness . So , yeah , that I don't , and I expect that there might be some hiccups along the way , sure , but yeah , I'm looking forward to that . You also talked about your I'll call it trepidation when you , in the summer , going to a new school or a new grade or what have you . Yeah , I don't recall experiencing that .
Speaker 1Yeah , I can tell you why .
Speaker 2I don't have a memory of that type of angst or anxiety around you know a new school or whatever .
Speaker 1Well , I can't tell you why , because I wasn't in your head as much as I am now . I could observe you , and I'm thinking about high school , of course , because that's where we met . I can observe you and I know now that there are things about you that what I thought was just not the case at all .
Speaker 1You know because of how you presented , yeah , not the case at all , you know because of how you presented , but but yeah , I think that was that was . You are atypical of people who have gone through the , the changing schools . What , for whatever reason either , either you move and you change schools and kind of the fitting in . Maybe that's it the fitting in . I don't think you ever worried about fitting in .
Speaker 2I don't think I've ever had a fit in and problem , not in schools and work and whatever it's like . I've never had a problem fitting in .
Speaker 1Okay .
Speaker 2That's something else that we can probably . Well , but let's get back .
Speaker 1It is . It is Beginnings new beginnings . So that's definitely something that you're . What are you gonna ? What are you finding that ? You finding that I can ?
Speaker 2ask it two different ways that you're drawing from to not have you fall back into .
Speaker 1Okay , I can't , I can't , I can't , I can't . You know um it's it . The idea was good at the time , but that's what's making .
Speaker 2What's making you not pull back ? That is such an easy question . I want to hear the answer , and then I'm gonna ask you some of these same questions .
Speaker 1This is not a Leslie interview now .
Speaker 2Okay , no , I'm just saying my faith is what grounds me in that regard , because I know that he will not let me fall too far . Right , will not let me fall too far . When you have the Holy Spirit in you , I believe that my path is lit and my steps are ordered , whatever , even if they're this way or that way . So I do get a lot of comfort from that . But the other thing I don't have too many regrets about past mistakes , because I know that I could never have been the person that I am right now without having learned the lessons from things that didn't do well , didn't go well , and that's job opportunities , that's certainly romantic relationships , that's .
Speaker 1You know , I've learned so much from them that , again , I believe that they were meant to be , because these are lessons that I'm supposed to learn no-transcript , and it was time to get out of the way and leave and leave , and I remember that was almost an audible if anyone else was in the room they would probably have heard it too Holy Spirit , saying you're an enabler .
Speaker 1Right now you need to allow me to do my work and stop trying to cover up and paste over and , you know , putting lipstick on a pig and all of those things , and move ahead , because once that happened , once that was locked in , nothing could stop me , like really nothing could stop me . So , having said that , I want to be really clear and I think you would agree with me on this . Those are kind of overarching covering , let's say . But in the day-to-day , in the moment-to-moment , fear comes up all the time , crying comes up all the time , tiredness comes up all the time , feeling like oh my gosh comes up all the time , and I know that it's the same with you and when we get to a certain level of low , we are reminded that we have this covering .
Speaker 1We're reminded that we can you know , this is what we can lean on , but it does not mean that we stay in this height of peace the whole time . Right , we just have an anchor in it , but we don't stay there . That would be so fake and so wrong , but we go through there .
Speaker 2We go through there . And one thing about me in my I call it unicorn and rainbow thinking , because that's the life I live . You know , I forget the tribulation sometimes . Yeah . I think that you know there's something about my psyche that doesn't allow me to readily retrieve difficult things difficult experiences . Right Some type of avoidance , probably , but I don't remember the battlefields and the journeys all the time .
Speaker 1Mm-hmm , well , that's okay , that's okay , well , you know .
Speaker 1That's okay . What I did want to point out , though , is that , in the process of going through these big shifts , it's hard . I want to really just acknowledge that it's hard , and it's more of a what I would say and you could agree or disagree with this , Les it's more of a how do we get back up sometimes , versus we never fall . What brings us back up , what pulls us up , what causes us to lift our head or not , to allow certain arrows to kind of penetrate ? That type of thing is not that the arrows don't come . It's not that , you know , we don't experience sadness and all of those things . We don't live in a bubble of . We don't live in a joy bubble . We don't live in a joy bubble right , we live in a . We live in a . God's got us and we lean in , we lean into our faith , and it gets us through . But I don't want to make any kind of , I don't want to give any impression that things are hard for making major changes , for , as Dana Finewell put it , feeling like you're beginning again , Because any big change , yes , we bring our skills , we bring all of those things with us . That is a fact . That is a fact , and it helps us to get through and also it does feel like you're starting over again .
Embracing New Paths to Joy
Speaker 1It does feel like I know it was so difficult after my first marriage ended . Oh my gosh , I carried so much . Oh my gosh , I carried so much . It was a sense of failure and I think it's my need to work through that anyway , because I was a single mom of three young children . Isaiah was one that , yeah , one , six and eight that you just kind of pick yourself up and do it anyway . But there were many days I was in my closet crying . I mean in my closet crying . You know what I ?
Speaker 1mean In my closet writing in my closet . That was there also , so it's you know . I just really . If you wonder why I'm kind of emphasizing this , is because I know that people may be listening and having a sense of who you and I are and I really want to be clear that , that we are things that root us and that help us to bend and not break . But we do bend , we do feel all the things oh , I've broken .
Speaker 2I've broken ?
Speaker 1Yeah , that too . Then you get patched up again , you know you know , I mean I've gotten a lot .
Speaker 2I've paid a lot of therapists . Yes , that too I've gotten a lot of . You know , I've had . I start to say something untoward . This is being recorded . I'll record myself . I'll suffice it to say I've had a couple of bottles of wine . How about that ?
Speaker 1Listen , leslie can mix a drink . Let me tell you . Yeah , leslie is an expert , an expert at that Listen it's so funny .
Speaker 2I have many patients that tell me , oh , I don't drink alcohol . Sometimes I say , why not ? You know I don't , but I try to be careful about that because you know people may have problems with alcoholism or family stress .
Speaker 2So I try not to be too flippant . I want to say why the hell not ? It's like you you drink all the time . So I try not to be too flippant . I want to say why the hell not ? I drink all the time . I did tell you that I overslept last night had nothing to do with that gin and Sprite . I had at midnight that gin and ting . Nothing to do with it .
Speaker 1Oh , my God . At least you had it the night before and not the morning of that's fine , yeah , what I really liked about Dana , and this is how I feel .
Speaker 2This is why I can leave , like my good black job , right , right , and seemingly walk away from it and pursue other things . It's because I'm 62 years old . I , you know , have no idea how long I'm gonna be here , right , there are certain things . You know . We talked about my bucket list . There's still things that I want to love and experience and I want to do , and and you know from travel , you know you and I are going to enroll in that design school .
Speaker 1We are going to do that .
Speaker 2Uh , you know um , so there are things that still need to happen for me , right and um , I need to put in , in , make plans for that to happen . So , yeah , I guess there will be a lot of um new beginnings . You know this , this um , dana , she started doing some Japanese drumming . She said she always loved to dance . She's doing taking hip hop lessons .
Speaker 1I mean you know .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , If not now when ? Mm-hmm , you know Exactly exactly .
Speaker 2So yeah it's so easy and I am speaking to myself To stay in the comfort of your old surroundings . You know your old slippers , the known , and not break in the new shoes . You know your old slippers and not break in the new shoes , you know that are so shiny , on the other hand , but you don't know how it will fit or feel Right . But I think you just gotta . You just gotta leap , you know , and for me , I don't look at these new beginnings as a leap , because I always have that out , you know , I always . You know I don't . I haven't leapt yet without a comfort , you know , a safety , a safety net under there . That would be bold and different for me to just jump into the abyss without it .
Speaker 1It would be bold and different , but it would not be joyful if you did it without these things , and I'm going to take a moment right now to make a shameless plug to my new book .
Speaker 1We're Too Old for this Shit the Inquisitive Older Woman's Guide to Joy . Because one of the things that I talk about in the book is not everyone's . Everyone's joy looks different , right , so your joy includes using your gifts and getting what you getting your needs met . Leslie has a need for security and and plans and so on . She's not going to feel joyful just doing things without those things , right , so it may . It may look on the outside she may have this behavior of oh , she's doing this thing new , she's so bold she's , so you know she's beautiful , Right ?
Speaker 1So what's the word when you're impromptu and you know ? It's just so hoc , and no , no , no . Leslie will never be that , she will never have joy doing that .
Speaker 2I won't say she would never do it , she would never find joy in living that way .
Balancing Different Needs for Success
Speaker 1I'm much more wired for the flexibility , and so those are needs that I have right , but where we meet .
Speaker 2I was going to say we can get to the same spot Exactly . We get to the same spot Exactly .
Speaker 1We get to the same place , but with different needs in place .
Speaker 2So yeah , that's good man , that's rich . Yeah , it's really . Huh , What'd you say ? That's rich . That's a good observation . Yeah , Thank you .
Speaker 1Les , was that my first ? Is that my ?
Speaker 2You surprised .
Speaker 1No , I'm kidding , I'm kidding , I'm kidding . All right , babe , this was good .
Speaker 2Thank you for going there with me . I hope you guys check out this video . It's interesting . Her Dana's delivery is interesting also because I think it's rather flat . Yeah , but that's her personality clearly Right , right .
Speaker 2But you know , it's just day in the life , listen , it's , it's a , it's exactly day in the life me , I'm more showtime , but showtime but um , but she's just a day in the life , let me tell you , you know , I looked at some of her other videos also , right and um , but yeah , something to think about . Indeed , this is good and well , thank you . And did you hit , like and subscribe yet ? Just ask it for a friend , all right , this has been another episode of Black Boomer . Besties from Brooklyn , brooklyn .