Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
This is what the world needs now: two free-thinking “seasoned” Black women speaking their truth and inspiring others to do the same. Shaped by 45 years of friendship that began at the prestigious Brooklyn Technical High School through the Ivy League, medical school, marriages, divorces, triumphs, parenting queer children, life-threatening illness and many many amazing adventures. Each week, besties Leslie Osei-Tutu and Angella Fraser will push against boundaries in love, culture, careers, faith, politics and out-dated assumptions about women of a certain age. Remember, you’re never too old to change your mind…or your hair! (but more on that later :-)All views are our own and do not reflect the views of our institution/company. Information provided is not intended to serve as medical advice.
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
Smh! If you can’t beat her, call her a tramp?!?
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Besties Angella and Leslie are outraged when they come across an image of a T-shirt worn by former Pittsburgh Steelers player Le’Veon Bell labeling Vice President Kamala Harris as a tramp. They discuss this offensive wardrobe choice and how it serves as a disturbing reminder of the persistent stereotypes and unrealistic expectations placed on Black women. They unpack these issues, urging a re-examination of how character and values are portrayed, especially within our own communities.
The conversation takes a deeper dive into the complexities and limitations of stereotypes, particularly those associated with Black women and political figures like Kamala Harris and how these stereotypes obscure the rich nuances of individual identities and perpetuate misleading narratives. It’s a rich conversation for sure, one that you’ll want to share with folks whose opinions you care about.
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Black Women Discuss Stereotypes in Society
Speaker 1hey aunt , hey les , how you doing ? I should say hey black hat hat girl , hey black hat club girl .
Speaker 2Listen this , my , my head is gonna be hatten untilon , until I come up with my new hairstyle . If you guys have any suggestions on the new style . I'm thinking color . I'm thinking a little something a little atypical . What is atypical ? Something I don't know , something different , and so until I decide there will be a hat .
Speaker 1There will be a hat . It will be gotten .
Speaker 2And you got plenty . 50 years , leslie . We are two intellectually curious 60-something-year-old Black women , and we invite you to join us as we think deeply and act boldly . Today , we're going to be talking about something that we're kind of pissed off about . Yeah , yeah , it was a stamp t-shirt that we saw somebody wearing that said Leslie ?
Speaker 1what does it say ? Yeah , yeah , and did you hear what ? I'm not going to start to make fun of the man's name , but that's not who I am Le'Veon Bell wore in public .
Speaker 1So this Le'Veon Bell L-E-V-E-O-N Bell , he is a former Pittsburgh Steelers football player and I'm like this dude that's not what I called him when I talked to you , so I said this dude had the nerve to wear this shirt in public . Now , a little background , although you don't need that much background is that he and one of his fellow former teammates , antonio Brown they endorsed Donald Trump wore regalia and the MAGA hats on a particular stage to show their support . Fine , you support who you feel that you need to support . What I really push back upon is the actual characterization of Kamala Harris , vice President , kamala Harris , as a tramp , and it immediately set off in my mind those awful racist , stereotypical tropes of Black women in general and I thought I almost curse the temerity of this man to call out a Black woman in this way . I think was unconscionable , and that's what I want to talk about .
Speaker 1So one of the first things I thought of it really made me angry .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , and you don't get angry no , not like that too quickly um . The first thing I thought of is less like this this is this ain't the first time I don't know this person , but if somebody would wear a t-shirt that said that it ain't the first time , that this is not a new framing for him of women . This is not a new framing for him .
Speaker 2He's probably been calling women tramps and bitches and all the things , all the things for for probably anything that he's responsible for , that a woman comes at him about , this is language that he would use for them . So it's , I don't think it has anything to do with ?
Speaker 2um , vice president , um , harris , who she is , any of that stuff . This is just framing that , this person , because even like to wear a t-shirt to brand yourself like that , that this is . And , by the way , by the way , what is the name that comes on top of tramp ? He had trump up there and he's gonna . He said trump . It would probably be better for him to say trump is a tramp versus .
Speaker 1Trump versus . And there were the pictures of Trump under the Trump and then Kamala's picture under tramp , and the first thing I think was pretty naive on my part is like what is it about this woman that would make someone think that she's a tramp ? What is it in her history ? Does he know something that the public doesn't know ?
Speaker 2Well , you know what happened . Does she have ?
Speaker 1a history of sleeping around . Does she have a history of infidelity . As far as I'm aware , she's a married woman and stepmother to children and has a professional business . You know history and a politician . If of all the things to say about Vice President Harris , trump , trump would fit me more than it would fit this lady .
Speaker 2Well , les , you know that there is the history of history of the um , the person that she um had a relationship with when she was an up-and-coming um prosecutor in california , right I mean that that's well known willie willie brown is it yes , the former mayor of san franc . So , so and this . So that is a fact and I think he was married at the time . He's separated . Whatever this was in the , the , the 80s ? No , not the 80s , maybe the 90s .
Speaker 1As in 30 years ago .
Speaker 2Yeah , but my thing is this right yeah . Because people dig up stuff from whatever and you know it happens on the other side too .
Speaker 2But my thing is this , and this is why I have this issue with this idea , the general idea of Black excellence that we can do no wrong , that we are modeled this and that that anything that deviates it's like when we were talking about Fawnie Willis this idea that we have to be these immaculate , godly , righteous people to be respected that idea is what I think comes into play here too . We're not perfect people .
Speaker 2It's not about being perfect and it's not about you . Know , if you have one ding , or even if you don't call it a ding , if you have any red marks against you , then you're not worthy . But in terms of someone's character , in terms of someone's character that you're going to , in terms of how people show up , not in their frailties , but in their character , their values , and in their day to day .
Speaker 1Yeah , I push back because it's such a reductionist view , certainly designed as a stereotype , and we have been reduced to stereotypes for so long that I hated to see this young black man who has a mother , who has aunties and family , who has ?
Speaker 2a grandmother and other people , siblings .
Speaker 1Perhaps you know perpetuate this type of thing . We've heard about , you know , the tropes of the mammy . You know . We know about the Jezebel and the this , and then the Sapphire , the sassy friend , and this and that , or the black girl magic . So these are all tropes that have been perpetuated through society for a long time and it would , as objectionable as it is , it is worse , I think , when we do that ourselves and perpetuate it .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , and you and you know , again , again , ish . This thread goes through so many things . We are the subjects of the society that we are in . Right , we swim in the pool . We swim in the pool of the dominant culture , and so we also ingest .
Speaker 1Some of the pee that's in the pool .
Speaker 2We also ingest some of the pee in the pool and we take that on . We see it in film on TV , these characters and so on .
The Impact of Stereotypes and Values
Speaker 2And stereotypes have their grounding right . Stereotypes have their grounding right . The stereotypes come from things that you see in a particular culture . Yeah , but they also categorize and they make us less likely to see all the nuances and all of the Exactly .
Speaker 1And they seem like a single story right Exactly the complexities and the entirety of who , in this case Kamala Harris , is but in the larger sense , who Black women are or in an even larger sense , who Black people are , and I know that me in my personal life . Obviously , there are certain stereotypes about a black woman , a black woman with dreadlocks , a black woman who has hair that's colored red or whatever the case may be or wear big earrings or jewelry or whatever .
Speaker 1And in my professional work and in my casual work I have to think about bucking up against stereotypes and presenting a more real view of who I am and who we are as a people . So when this young man and I use that term loosely- Well , he's a young man , he's not a gentleman .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , yeah , Okay yeah yeah , okay , yeah , in fact this young man is the best I'm giving him .
Speaker 1He should be ashamed of himself . Yeah , I would agree with that , because , remember , there are ways to disagree with people and to provide , you know , an opposite view and say I'm not with these people . This is the reason why X Y Z Remember what . John McCain did when the audience member said I'm afraid of Barack Obama Because he's a Muslim .
Speaker 2I would be afraid he's a Muslim and it was an honest exchange , you know .
Speaker 1She expressed her fear . He didn't shoot her down and say , ah , you're crazy and you're right , I am afraid of him too .
Speaker 2He says no , he is not a .
Speaker 1Muslim . He is a man who . I disagree with his politics . And this is the reason why I think you should choose me over that guy , not because he's a Muslim or someone to be afraid of .
Speaker 1Although in my opinion , I think , former president who's running against Kamala Harris . I am afraid of him . I'm not afraid of him because of his religious leanings , or lack thereof , in my opinion , but rather the policies that he would set forth for me and people who I love . Those policies are fearful , and I am afraid of what another presidency with him would look like is collaboration with Project 2025 and the things that it plans to change about our country , and the direction that they told us that they're going to go in .
Speaker 1So in that regard , I have real fears about what a second presidency . From his own mouth , what it would look like if the former president were reelected .
Speaker 2It would look like if the former president were reelected . Yeah , and I'm going to just state some of my fears , along with yours . I'm afraid that people are still talking about the issues of this election as if it were just a regular degular election that they're still talking about . Yeah , but with Trump we'll have more money in our pockets . Or did you look at his policies when he was president ? Do you hear what he's saying ?
Speaker 1Do you hear what he's saying .
Speaker 2Do you hear ? How much can trust someone right , and they're politicians , right . We get that . We get that . We're not talking about every word and people are going to . I'm just saying that if you're dealing with someone who is a habitual liar , why do you think that he's going to like not , and he didn't lie , he hasn't lied to you , his lies haven't affected you yet why do you think that you're putting yourself in a situation where he will not ? Do you think that a person who has these types of values are going to respect you as a woman and the things that you value as a woman ?
Speaker 2I mean , if the issues are just about money and you know , I know that immigration is a big issue across the board , but even that , if it's someone who doesn't have values , where ?
Speaker 1do they end ? Where does it end ? I personally , I don't really care about having more money in my pocket .
Speaker 2Thank God , amen to you .
Speaker 1Me personally , I don't really care about a lot of those personal issues . I'm past the age of needing or thinking about abortion .
Speaker 2But I have loved ones .
Speaker 1I love women . I think I love families . People are dying . I'm a physician . People are dying not knowing where to go for help in their pregnancies when they need help . So what I'm saying is it's not just for me personally because I think I'll be fine , I have a little bit of buffer , but many people do not . And as a humanist and a person who loves people . I have to think about other people . I can't think about myself .
Speaker 2Yeah , and even if money is an issue for you right and money and you do want more money in your pocket that I'm going to say this the things that he values are to bully people , to call people names , to make fun of people , to align themselves with people who just want to rule and exert power over . Why do you think he's not going to do that to you ? Even if he hasn't done it to , you before , or your loved ones .
Speaker 1He hasn't done it to you yet .
Speaker 2Yeah . Why do you think that he's not going to ? Because the things that have benefited you perhaps in the past ? There's no way that you can think that this person did it because he cares about you , about you personally yeah , yeah that he cares about you , about you personally yeah , yeah that he cares about you . It was just kind of chalk it up as a residual of a bigger , something bigger than he wanted . Anyway , we digress .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , we kind of got off a little bit , but I did want to .
Speaker 2I was kind of debating in my own head whether I was going to bring this up , but just as we talk about stereotypes , how they , how they kind of show up in so many aspects of our lives and our personal lives , stereotype about who I was , as a black woman , colored made him unable to see that there are other nuances to us , right , that we're not just this one thing , there are all these nuances .
Speaker 2So it shows up in so many and and I'm also going to say this and it made me to be perfectly transparent and honest it made me recognize that maybe there were aspects of it that I kind of liked , right and . I allowed , but they weren't truly who I was yeah , and that's what it ?
Speaker 1is , I think , I do , I do . I've had that experience in relationships also when people see you as um unidimensional so they ascribe all of your behaviors to that trope , whatever it is that they believe of you . Right , right , and they cannot see you again in your entirety and you become diminished and the relationship falters as a result of it . When people can't see you for who you are especially your loved ones .
Speaker 2It becomes very painful . Yeah , absolutely , it becomes very painful .
Speaker 1And I think , in addition to the anger that I had when I saw that t-shirt , it was painful to me to see someone who reminded me of my son or of my nephews , or you know a public , a person who has some public presence , doing that ? I think he should be ashamed . There are other ways to voice your opposition , but not perpetuate and take down people who loved and reared you Right , right .
Speaker 2You know , I felt it was a betrayal .
Speaker 1For what ?
Speaker 2For Trump ? Yeah , you know , trump has his supporters . A betrayal for what For Trump ?
Speaker 1You know Trump has his supporters and you don't need to denigrate someone like me in order to show your support for this person . Right , right , when I was looking it up . I want to just let you know what a user , because he got quite a bit of pushback . Of course , he got support also , but some of the pushback he got was a 16-year-old young lady . She's an influencer and I believe in women's rights or whatever she says . Why do you have to support your candidate by denigrating a black woman .
Speaker 1Why do you have to do both ? Just wear , like I do wear , a Kamala t-shirt , right , you know one user on social media . He wrote between Donald Trump , le'veon Bell and Antonio Brown , there are over 35 felonies , multiple sexual assaults and multiple illegitimate kids , but they have the nerve to call Kamala Harris a tramp .
Speaker 2This is what I mean . This is what I mean . This did not start . You don't wake up one morning and say I'm going to call somebody a tramp and wear it on a T-shirt .
Speaker 1wake up one morning and say I'm gonna call somebody a tramp and wear it on a t-shirt . It's like like who are these dudes ? Just you know , these dudes are felons . These dudes , they have like um Le'Veon Bell , I think he I think he said he's 31 or something like that seven children no way yes no way you know , and hey , you can have as many children as you want , and whatever , but I mean , what is ? I don't know what the definition of tramp are how many of these ? Mothers , are you with married ?
Speaker 2to supporting whatever . You know it sounds a little trampish right mr bell , it's a little . It's a little trappy , triangular , trampremular , tramp-esque .
Speaker 1You know . So I mean , we're laughing about something that is not necessarily funny in a larger scheme . But I'm glad that there was some pushback and people recognized it , for the harm yeah , potential harm that it can do and the perpetuation of stereotypes , that I just think is not Don't do . That it's not Don't do , that it's like Don't do that Hashtag be better . Yeah , come on . Or , as Melania Trump said , be best .
Speaker 2Be best .
Speaker 1Remember that was her when she was in her OK .
Speaker 2Be best . Ok , all right , let's , let's wrap it up .
Speaker 1I'm going to be best . Anyway , thanks for listening guys . Listen , cher , what do you guys think about that ? You think that is . You know , in this political type , political climate is anything goes . Is you know ? Are there , should there be no guardrails ? Should there be no , what I call decency ? And you know , are there , should there be no guardrails , or should there be no , what I call decency ? And you know what do you guys think ? Leave us some . You guys are really good about leaving comments , so please do . We appreciate it and don't forget to hit like and subscribe .
Speaker 2Yeah , and listen . We hope that you share this podcast with all the people who you think are going to benefit from listening to these two . How old , are we Les ?
Speaker 1We're 62 now .
Speaker 2We're now both 62 years old . Yes , and check out my new e-book . It's called we're Too Old for this Shit the Inquisitive Older Woman's Guide to Joy . You can find it at joystrategyco slash ebook . It is for you , so join us next time for another episode of .
Speaker 1Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn .