Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
This is what the world needs now: two free-thinking “seasoned” Black women speaking their truth and inspiring others to do the same. Shaped by 45 years of friendship that began at the prestigious Brooklyn Technical High School through the Ivy League, medical school, marriages, divorces, triumphs, parenting queer children, life-threatening illness and many many amazing adventures. Each week, besties Leslie Osei-Tutu and Angella Fraser will push against boundaries in love, culture, careers, faith, politics and out-dated assumptions about women of a certain age. Remember, you’re never too old to change your mind…or your hair! (but more on that later :-)All views are our own and do not reflect the views of our institution/company. Information provided is not intended to serve as medical advice.
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
Why Malcolm Gladwell’s apology for stop & frisk isn't enough
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Imagine navigating almost five decades of friendship without needing to explicitly say "I'm sorry". Besties Angella and Leslie give you a view of their unique connection where grace and understanding have forged a path through conflicts without the need for conventional exchange of apologies. Inspired by Malcolm Gladwell's TED Talk, "The Tipping Point I Got Wrong," they reflect on the art of apologizing and how it intertwines with accepting responsibility for being wrong.
Gladwell’s talk centers on his previous endorsement of the former NYC Police Department policy referred to as Stop and Frisk where between 2003 and 2013, over 100,000 stops were made per year. It became the subject of a racial-profiling lawsuit because 90% of those stopped were Black & Latino. In his talk, Gladwell admits that his prior comments about the policy were wrong and offers an “apology”.
Besties Angella and Leslie dissect the components of an apology and critique the common tendency to prioritize self-justification over genuine remorse. They examine their own relationship and appreciate the supportive environment they’ve cultivated over 46 years.
The Tipping Point I Got Wrong | Malcolm Gladwell | TED
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Hey Ants.
Speaker 2Hey Les, how are you?
Speaker 1Double thumbs up.
Speaker 2Very good, very good. I'm glad to hear, I'm glad to hear we have a really interesting conversation today. But before we get started, I'm already afraid, but go ahead of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
Speaker 2My name is Angela and that is my best friend of almost 50 years, leslie. We are two intellectually curious older Black women and we are here to just go into a deep conversation today about accepting responsibility and apologizing and what that looks like, what that ought to be, how it's felt we when we've done it right, how we've felt when it wasn't done right to us, and we're gonna tie it to a um, a ted talk. Yeah, a TED talk that I stumbled upon when I was just you know, I'm producing this show and we knew what we were going to talk about. So I was just doing some research and I stumbled upon this pretty recent TED talk by Malcolm Gladwell and the name of it is I don't think I wrote that down oh, the Tipping Point. I Got Wrong. That is the name of it and I looked at it on YouTube, but as I looked at that, I'm like Les Les.
Speaker 2this has so many of the kind of something that we can what is it? Contrast and just kind of see what we thought of the way that he apologized and whether we thought that it was enough and all of those things. So it's just a great way to kind of frame up our conversation about apologies and those types of things.
Speaker 1So about this video, let me just say one thing while you were speaking that I thought, of. You said that you looked at the TED Talk from Gladwell and said I don't really like the way that he apologized and stuff. But that wasn't the goal of our listening. We kind of came up, we both agreed with that, as we typically do. We both agreed at the end we came to it from different ends about what we thought about that apology. So we'll get into that.
Speaker 2Yes, we'll get into that. So where I wanted to kind of joke the conversation is when we recognized that we made a mistake and how we apologized for it or didn't Right. It might have been something in our youth that is still unresolved. It might be something from last week that you kind of know yeah, I own that, but it's not resolved. So I'll start there, If you have something confession to make.
Speaker 1Uh-oh, I'm just going to lay it out right now and be transparent. I am not good at apologizing. Okay, I've never been good at apologizing and I noticed that about myself. Wow, I've promised to work on it, but I never have. But I never have, okay. So when the opportunity comes for me to apologize for something, I feel it and I have to force myself. It's not easy for me.
Speaker 2I see yeah, okay, so I'm just being.
Speaker 1This is a little hard for me.
Speaker 2Okay, so let me say so, that is not something that I would say about you. That's not been my experience with you. However, I know that there are ways that you show up for me for this friendship. That is really the best of who you are. That is really the best of who you are, and for all of the right reasons that you, you, there may be something that I might not even be aware of, like this, that you, you, you work on for our friendship's behalf, because, really, I would not say that about you.
Speaker 1You know why.
Speaker 2You know why you wouldn't say that about me, and this is a little deep, it's a little meta. Let's go, we go deep.
Speaker 1So the reason why I'll almost say that you don't really require an apology from me, I can't even recall over the decades I mean almost 50 year relationship that we've had where you said, les, I want you to apologize for that. Like that has you've never said that to me.
Speaker 2I don't think so.
Speaker 1And I'm I know I've done some wicked ass shit to you in the over the past, not the ass shit, wicked ass shit. Anyway, but no, but what I'm saying is, and the reason you haven't explicitly asked me in the past for an apology, I believe is because you know my heart, so you automatically layer on grace and say I know she didn't mean it in a malicious way or whatever and sometimes you absolutely will ask me to reframe something or clarify something.
Speaker 2Perhaps that's your way of asking me are you sure that's coming out the way you want it to.
Speaker 1You know, can you? You know take that back a little. You know walk that back. So you know what I mean. I do so, I think, when it's framed under the umbrella of grace, and how much regard you have for me, I think that explanation for how we have come to be this way.
Speaker 2It's really, you know, it's really incredible.
Speaker 1It's very special.
Speaker 2It's a very safe friendship. But I know that I should say, and I also know that we don't sugarcoat things between each other. It's not like we do not avoid conflict. We don't kind of, okay, I'll hold that in, we don't do that. So it's not that things don't get resolved.
Speaker 1They get. We resolve our differences. And we have differences, yeah, but we resolve them in such a. It's such a. I've never experienced anything like it. It's the weirdest thing. It's like when you disagree with me, you call it out. It happened just today, it did. You said stop, right there. I did Right after I said something.
Speaker 2Yes, not allowing it. No, ma'am.
Speaker 1You did say something like that. Wait a minute, stop right there.
Speaker 2Right and.
Speaker 1I was like, oh, never mind. But what I meant to say was, you know, yeah, so our discussions of disagreement. I mean you've started recording some of them, because they really get into the layers.
Speaker 2Right, you know. How did it feel when I kind of really arrested you? I know I did that and I had to. I felt like I really had to.
Speaker 1You did yeah, I had to get you to hear yourself and immediately I heard myself, because you know how I speak with you in a way that's often, uh, flippant and yes off the cuff. But you first of all. You mostly understand what I really mean. So, you speak in a way that's so sensible that I, you know I couldn't disagree with it. It's like, yeah, I understand that, I just didn't say it, and I think that's what happened today.
Speaker 1I really understood what you said. There was nothing I could or should have disagreed with. I just was speaking in a way that perhaps is either flippant or abbreviated or whatever, but let's get back down, dig down into that, sorry.
Speaker 2Let me say one other thing, and then we can close this off.
Speaker 1Are you saying that you're sorry to me for cutting me off? Is that I'm waiting?
Speaker 2absolutely not, I think I was. So, as a matter of fact, listen, that's how I feel about what I did, what yay me um the.
Speaker 2The thing is that I I don't think that what? Yeah, it was the way that you actually framed the issue, and had I not kind of stopped you from framing it that way, you would have kept going. Do you know what I mean? I think that there was a reframing that was needed, and you recognized the reframing when I stopped you, because this is at the end of the day and this is kind of bringing us back At the end of the day. You know, I want you to win.
Speaker 1That's true, I want you to win, but you know, and I think that's the difference between disagreements between us and, perhaps, our romantic partners or other people Right, you know, there's always.
Speaker 2Our children maybe.
Speaker 1Well, you know Whomever yes. We have to start with the basis of we're on the same team and very often I think conflict persists when are we on the?
Speaker 2same team. Yes, add to that too, because I think this comes up as parents. The other part of maybe it's the team thing is in familial relationships, let's say right, which includes partners, there may be a power dynamic. So, for example, with, with your children, right, right, yeah, it's not that well, our children don't know us like you and me know each other right. Our children don't know us as much of our friends, as much as our friends do, because our children just met us when they were five. We're all about.
Speaker 1We had a whole life before that and Mari still doesn't know just how chill and cool I am. You know, I'm just awesome.
Speaker 2So let me just quickly, for the audience, set up what that conversation was about. Okay, so Malcolm Gladwell, as you may know, is a now very famous author and he started with. His first book was called the Tipping Point, and one particularly important part of that book is described in his is something that he now realizes that he was wrong about, and this TED Talk is him acknowledging that. Basically, what he described and it was a short video, maybe 15, 16 minutes long, no-transcript some research that he read which basically said that when you stop something before it becomes a problem, right so it's an epidemic, and if you can stop it, if you can nip it in the bud, you can avoid the epidemic or you can stop the spread of the epidemic right and New York the police department termed that broken windows policing Correct.
Speaker 1If you can fix, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2Broken window comes from this research that was done around. You know this. So, anyway, what? So he? Malcolm Gladwell, talked about this in his book and basically said yes, this is the reason why crime went down in New York City, why it became safer. Right.
Speaker 1He was very clear about that in his book Good job, Good job right.
Speaker 2He's very clear about that in his book. Good job, right yeah. What he then was able to see is there was a court case which brought this practice of stop and frisk to a judge, and the judge said that it was unconstitutional, and it immediately stopped.
Speaker 2And so one would think, ok, this thing helped the city to get safer. Now it has stopped, the city is going to get more dangerous again. But what he saw because this was a very clear thing it was this way. And then this judge says this and then it stopped. Crime went down. It continued to go. And then this judge says this and then it stopped. Crime went down.
Speaker 1It continued to go down down, down Instead of go up. Can I just say that the attorney that won this 2013 case that put an end to stop and frisk in New York City is a dear friend of ours, a lifelong friend of ours.
Speaker 2He is, so that's pretty cool to know that he's the one that won that case. That's very cool, hey, so here it is. Mr Gladwell wrote this in his book. It's sold millions and millions of copies.
Speaker 1That stop and frisk is great and it will decrease. It was a cause of right okay, yeah.
Speaker 2So here he is. Now he actually read his book again and now he has the evidence from this case. And what happened? After Stop and Frisk stopped, crime rate went down. Well, of course the two were not related. It's not because of Stop and Frisk that crime went down, because when Stop and Frisk went away, crime didn't go up, it wasn't this switch.
Speaker 2And so he came to this TED Talk to apologize and say that he was wrong. Okay, sure, sounds great, but there were some things that Leslie and I were like, hmm, not so fast, mr Gladwell, not so fast, he Okay. Not so fast, mr Gladwell, not so fast, he okay. So people applauded when he said I was wrong. That was one thing that was like, and he took a moment to take that in.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2He took a moment to take that in. If this were an apology, a real, let's say yeah why was three quarters of the conversation him explaining why he made the mistake and five minutes of it around two Of it, and it was very like I was wrong.
Speaker 1I should have said I believe at this time that such and such, and because I didn't say that I was wrong, I'm wrong. Okay, and did he use the words? I apologize for that.
Speaker 2He did. I think he did, I'm not going to question. Like he said he was sorry. He said I was wrong and she brought to his attention that her and her friends lived through the other side of stop and frisk and her friends were stopped and her friends were afraid of what?
Speaker 1the police would do as my family members my son and my nephews Exactly. It was horrible.
Speaker 2Right, it was horrible, and you know gave assent to you know. Correct, yeah, and so that part of it is where. But again, that was very short, it was right at the end and I think maybe she had two questions for him and he responded and he said, no, I really didn't think of them, and so on, so anyway, so I want to kind of dissect an apology.
Speaker 1Yeah, and I was smiling when you said how he did it, how he spent 14 minutes describing the incident and then the last two were and by the way, I was wrong.
Effective Apologies
Speaker 1I'm sorry Because it kind of hit a little close to home. You know, I don't consider myself a mean person or anything like that, and often I would say most times if I do something wrong or offend people or make a mistake that warrants an apology, it comes out of a clean heart and my intention was good. So what I tend to do or think about is to explain why I did what I did, you know. So my apology will be three quarters explanation and one one quarter I'm sorry. So much like what Malcolm Gladwell did.
Speaker 2Right right.
Speaker 1I know that that's not the proper or best way to apologize, though.
Speaker 2What would you change about that? What would be the proper or best way to do it?
Speaker 1Well, several things when you apologize. One it's not about you, it's about the wronged person Right. And by my or Malcolm giving that explanation, we are looking for some understanding.
Speaker 2We are looking for some understanding.
Speaker 1Please understand me why I did such and such when it should not be me-centered, it should be you-centered.
Speaker 2Absolutely, absolutely so without almost.
Speaker 1instead of giving an explanation why you almost need to present an impact statement of the victim. Yes, that's so good. Yes, and in the absence of that and I can. Oh man, I have so many instances.
Speaker 2But in the absence of that, the person you're apologizing doesn't really know if you understand their feelings, why you're apologizing, etc. Someone thinking that they're completely absolved of wrongdoing because they apologize without with their car and said oh my God, I am so sorry. I didn't mean to do that, I did not.
Speaker 1My baby was in the backseat crying and I had to look for a second All of it.
Speaker 2Ok, my foot is still busted up. It's still going to the right, it's my left foot.
Speaker 1Your body is left.
Speaker 2It's still and so, but then, oh, but it's their tears and it's their feeling of deep regret, but not addressing the hurt of the other person.
Speaker 1What I used to hear is well, I apologize. So why are you acting like that still?
Speaker 2Right right, right right.
Speaker 1And what I used to say it's up to the victim to be the arbiter of how they feel.
Speaker 2Exactly exactly to be the arbiter of how they feel, exactly, exactly, you know it's yeah, it's he kind of.
Speaker 1The more I think about you, malcolm. You didn't apologize, brother, you got to go back and do it again.
Speaker 2Or there's some type of recompense. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1Well, I was just going to say there was no repentance. He still got all the money from his book. You know the come to Jesus moment. I see the error of my ways. This is how I'm going to make it better.
Speaker 2Right, you know an apology.
Speaker 1I've heard has like three parts or something like that Okay. But you have to acknowledge what you did was wrong. You have to state the impact to the person who was wronged and then you have to say what will I do going forward? You know I'll never do it again. I'll be more mindful of your feet while I'm driving. You know some such thing. To make the victim, I'll say to make that person know you know that. Okay, I can. I can accept your apology, yeah, but it does really require.
Speaker 2You know, I read through a bunch of the comments because they were so juicy, because these are, you know people. Most of the comments. Because they were so juicy, because these are, you know, most of the people who commented were big fans of his. So, they could see his intellect and just he really has this really expansive and deep way of thinking.
Speaker 1He certainly does. That's Omari's favorite author, you know.
Responsibility and Personal Growth
Speaker 2and then and then there is the I'm brilliant, therefore I am right, and a lot of the comments. To me it was kind of a trend in the comments that said, yeah, I admire these things about him. But I also noticed this in his first book, his second book, his fifth book, and that's something that he does that either people have to be responsible to say look, you don't put people on a pedestal and think they do no wrong, or he could change his language and kind of propose things versus saying that, yeah, this is so, because he has such a following that people believe him Exactly.
Speaker 2When he says that's like me.
Speaker 1You know much like EF Hutton, this is what I deal with. See, I'm dating myself, because how many people know the reference to the EF Hutton commercial? You know, you got to be a boomer to know that.
Speaker 2You have to be of a certain age. So some language that a few people in the comments used are humble bragging, which I love Humble bragging, I like that and faux humility, faux humility, this idea that, okay, now I went up on a TED stage, I owned it, I owned what I did wrong and not was there real humility. I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1I got to tell you it almost. His words rang hollow, almost to me.
Speaker 2They did to me too. You know, they did to me too.
Speaker 1You know, and I am pretty somewhat familiar with his way of speaking, so he does speak in a kind of drab monotone. I've heard him speak at different venues, you know. But an apology, I'm sorry, shouldn't sound like that. I'll say it shouldn't sound like that. You know, it almost sounds the same way. This bristles and I'm sure you'll agree when you hear if I offended you, then I'm sorry, Right.
Speaker 2No, if you were offended, if anybody was offended. Yeah, it's not, even if I offended you, right right If you were offended by anything I said, then I apologize, right.
Speaker 1If you were befriended by anything I said, then I apologize, right. If, if you, you know what I mean. If it's not, I'm if in the off chance, that In the off chance Chance, that, then I'm sorry. You know what that reminds me of Immediately came to mind. Do you remember the play for colored girls who've considered suicide when the rainbow was enough?
Speaker 2by Ntozake Shanga.
Speaker 1Yeah, it was a Broadway play and she is a poet and Ntozake's play came to Broadway and I remember seeing it then, 30 years ago, a long time ago and one of the poems was called Sorry, and it was different ways that people in the characters' lives were saying they're sorry, like, oh, I'm so sorry, it's so, you know, whatever. And one of them it was a dude and he was like well, if I did that, well, sorry, sorry, you know, and the arrogance of that the person in that play reminded me. You know, obviously he Gladwell, was more subtle about it Right right, but it rang equally hollow. Wow, you know, and you and I had not discussed it beforehand.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah but you also said like is he really sorry?
Speaker 2Yeah, I don't know how sorry is he.
Speaker 1Yeah, you know because I'll tell you part of that policing policy. I don't know if you remember me telling you, but Omari and Saeed were in a taxi cab, in Bed-Stuy, coming from a party. I do remember and it was stopped by the police. The cab, they were pulled out no traffic infractions, no, nothing like that Just from where the taxi was coming from, and both of them were put up against the car and patted down.
Speaker 2Wow, stop and frisk. Yeah, you know it was a regular thing.
Speaker 1They could tell you stories and stories about these things.
Speaker 2You know. So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1You know, and of course we're not saying that Gladwell is responsible for the stop and frisk policing policy and whatever, but his endorsement carried weight, and he did say that he is at least partially responsible for that yeah, yeah Because his endorsement carried weight and so politically that became an important anchor for the city. You know what I mean. So it did so. Essentially he said if my endorsement offended anybody, sorry.
Speaker 2I apologize, I apologize, isn't that the word? I apologize, I apologize Isn't that the word? I apologize? I mean, it's like, it's like checking off the boxes. Okay, I said I was sorry. I said I did, I did something wrong. I admitted I did something wrong. I said I was sorry, I'm good. Well, I don't know. So one other thing that he did that I was like he mentioned um millions of people thought the same thing.
Speaker 2Millions of people thought that stopping frisk was the reason just like me yeah millions of people thought that and it like how many times do we justify what we do? It's almost like you know. Is it an excuse or is it a reasoning? An excuse is trying to lessen the blame, yeah.
Speaker 1I mean, and it's subtle, but it's an important subtlety.
Speaker 2Are you making an excuse you know something to lessen the blame, or are you giving the reason for you to have this belief?
Speaker 1I know it's subtle, but that's also a psychological construct, in that when you say I may have been wrong, but many people were wrong, it wasn't just me. Millions of people agreed that stop and frisk policy was a good policing strategy and hence my endorsement wasn't just out of the original intent of this conversation.
Speaker 2There are definitely things that I believe, things that I did, ways that I treated people in my youth, in my 40s.
Speaker 1Yesterday. Not so much maybe five years ago. The way that you talked to me today over the phone and told me stop right there.
Speaker 2You said, you literally said halt let me tell you this there will be no apology not even a little.
Speaker 1if you were offended, I will, I'll take the off one. Okay, I get it. I get it. But yes, again, you were saying about the lifelong wrongs you've done.
Speaker 2That there are things that I see now that I absolutely was wrong about that. I absolutely was wrong about that, I absolutely was wrong about and I guess, the ones that I remember.
Speaker 1It was so many.
Speaker 2Of the ones that I remember, I think there's only one that has been left unspoken about that. I have not approached the person Again, the ones that I'm aware of. Yeah, yeah, this stuff matters I think so, listen.
Speaker 1Did you do that when you went through AA? That was the good one, okay.
Speaker 2That was very good. She's never done AA.
Speaker 1Okay, that was very good.
Speaker 2She's never done AA. I yeah, that was just personal growth. Huh, recognize it. Now I'm not saying there may be many things that I've done that have not that I don't recognize, that I don't have a memory of that, you know, someone would have to come to me and say that this and this happened, but the things that you have a memory for you've rectified to your satisfaction.
Speaker 2To what I think you know in a way that I don't think Mr Gladwell did. I think that I've done it to that respected my boundaries and acknowledged what I did wrong and the pain that it's caused Okay. I just remembered another one Okay, maybe two. Oh, I just remembered another one Okay, maybe two. Oh, my gosh.
Speaker 1All right, how about in the episode notes you write what these things are, because you know I'm going to get it out of her off when we stop recording. I like that. Keep talking, there'll be more. Yeah, I know, wow, wow. Oh, be more. Yeah, I know, wow, wow.
Speaker 2Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1Anyway. But you know I'm thinking about just mirroring what you were saying and I'm thinking about if I go back and think about you know, I think most of the things I would do over again or do something differently were involved in my parenting. You know, and again I don't really see a place for an apology per se as more of the. I'll call Malcolm Gladwell MG now as the MG style explanation. Ok, you know why I parented the way that I did perhaps.
Speaker 2Why wouldn't it rise to the level of apology Like if you can recognize one, why wouldn't you then apologize and just come clean? Why, yeah?
Speaker 1Well, I don't think that they were wrongs or mistakes per se. They were just different ways that I've parented, and if I had an adolescent now, I would have parented differently. You know, it wasn't, like, you know, beating him with that stick oh my God, you know. You know, obviously I never hit him, but you know what I mean. So do know what I'm saying is I can't think of anything, particularly that I really can't. You could probably come up with something that I need to apologize to him for, but I cannot. I would just say that. I would just say that I would have done things differently because I know more now. I'm more mature.
Speaker 2Well, all's I'm saying. All's I'm saying is if you can get to that point, then I think you could also get to. If there's some things that you know absolutely that you would have done differently, then that means maybe that you did some things wrong.
Speaker 1Oh, I see I'm sorry for yeah or no no, no, just first.
Speaker 2If you know for sure that you would have done things differently if you were to do it now, perhaps you did some things back there that you can see that they were not great why would you want to do them differently? If you don't see anything wrong in what you did, let me give you an example of one of the things that I'm thinking.
Speaker 1You know how much Omari struggled in school because he was such a smart kid and I was trying to make him fit into a mold that wasn't him Right. I know now that these things don't matter at all. This kid could have been in the corner drawing or thinking or this or whatever, being in his own space, in his own space. But because of my own education style, teaching style, learning style, I thought it was so important for him to fit into the mold of the school system that he was involved in. I know now that he really didn't have to and that probably wasn't the best environment for him, but would that, according to what we've been speaking about, be something that I should apologize? That would be worthy of an apology for.
Speaker 2You answer that question. Why wouldn't it be? Let's take the side that you're leaning towards. Why wouldn't it be a reason to apologize?
Speaker 1See, the more you speak, the more it's coming up. Leslie, okay, I Okay. I'm sorry, I apologize. I tried to make you into someone that you were not, and for 12 whole years, to this day, I still ask him why. Why couldn't you? Just why? I remember one time sending him to school and I said to him I would just sit him and look at him and like, look, if you don't know what to do, what you should be doing, just look at the person next to you and do what they're doing.
Speaker 1I remember telling him like, come on, come on. I mean, you know you can't deal with stuff like that when you're in medical school or whatever it's like. That's not a phone call. You're sitting here, you know, with a cadaver and a scalpel in anatomy class. You don't need nobody telling you. Omari left his composition on the typewriter, you know? I just oh, those were the good old days, man. Wow, and you?
Speaker 2know, wow, okay, les Sorry pal.
Speaker 1Sorry, Matt, If you're out there listening, you know who you are. Mom is apologizing. Am I done? Why are you still feeling bad? Why are you still feeling this way? Oh my?
Speaker 2God, why can't you just let?
Speaker 1it go. I checked that list. I got it. Just let it go. You know how hard.
Speaker 2It was for me to say I'm sorry.
Speaker 1After all, it was 20 years ago, get over it, Just let it go. You know how hard it was for me to say I'm sorry. After all, it was 20 years ago, get over it. Anyway, yeah.
Reflective Conversations Strengthen Friendships
Speaker 2Oh my gosh, wow. This is why I love you about us is that we're reflective. We're reflective, that's true, and sometimes we may need a little push to take it all the way through. Yeah, but we are reflective and you know it's okay, I see that, and that's why, when I told you to stop like stop today, when I arrested the conversation, and the reason why maybe we're coming full circle, the reason why our friendship is the way that it is, is because in that moment, you were willing to look at yourself.
Speaker 1Yes.
Speaker 2It wasn't this. How could you say that to me? Or it didn't become that at all. It doesn't. It's not something that happens, it wasn't even can I finish the sentence please?
Speaker 1You literally arrested me mid-sentence. I will not let you go further. You said I said okay, okay.
Speaker 2Oh my gosh, wow, okay, see, I heart you. I heart you too. Oh my gosh. Listen, if there's any question about why we love each other, why our friendship will last through the ages, it is because of conversations like this. We hope that this discussion that we've had here has enriched you, has caused you to think more deeply, caused you to follow through, caused you to be reflective, caused you to seek out some safe place for you, like we have in each other then, our job, here is done, our job is done I think this is a good place to stop.
Speaker 1Actually I think so. Thank you for listening to another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
