Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
This is what the world needs now: two free-thinking “seasoned” Black women speaking their truth and inspiring others to do the same. Shaped by 45 years of friendship that began at the prestigious Brooklyn Technical High School through the Ivy League, medical school, marriages, divorces, triumphs, parenting queer children, life-threatening illness and many many amazing adventures. Each week, besties Leslie Osei-Tutu and Angella Fraser will push against boundaries in love, culture, careers, faith, politics and out-dated assumptions about women of a certain age. Remember, you’re never too old to change your mind…or your hair! (but more on that later :-)All views are our own and do not reflect the views of our institution/company. Information provided is not intended to serve as medical advice.
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
Pop the Balloon: Do New Ways of Dating Work for Older Women?
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From the intriguing show "Pop The Balloon and Find Love" to the traditional practices of arranged marriages, Besties Angella and Leslie discuss romantic relationships. They interject their own stories, and skepticisms, and challenge the notion that longevity equals happiness while examining the impact of true love versus societal obligations. The conversation takes a deep dive into the heart of compatibility and how profound questions can sometimes be answered in the most unexpected moments.
• Discussing the new dating show and its intriguing premise
• Comparing arranged and love marriages' longevity and happiness
• Exploring the difficulty in defining love and expectations
• Reflecting on compatibility questions that matter in relationships
• Sharing personal insights on online dating and its challenges
Ep 36: Pop The Balloon Or Find Love | With Arlette Amuli
https://youtu.be/ir-HnZSAnIE?si=BDaAIzrH0Bkt2ZQz
Visit Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn website for behind-the-scenes extras.
hey edge, hello leslie, how are you? I'm giddy it's, it's, listen, it's just been it's it's just been. It's just been a good day, like a good.
Speaker 1What a blessing that's awesome oh, I I fully, fully grateful and thanking God for, ok, can I tell you the truth? So go ahead, you guys. I think I've talked about this thing I'm making for my son. I'm crocheting, I'm making this vest for my son and I wanted to find something really easy to do so I could get it done. I wanted to give it to him for Christmas.
Speaker 2Still making it. Then I said I'll give it to him for Christmas.
Speaker 1Still making it. Then I said I'll give it to him for his birthday, for my middle son January. So now, because I got a pattern that was much more complicated than I wanted it, but it was really cute. Anyway, I had a breakthrough last night on understanding the pattern. It's 90% done. It's 95% done.
Speaker 2So now he'll actually have two on holes instead of the one that you had, and the vest it will close on this side and then it wouldn't have to wrap to this.
Speaker 1Listen, breakthroughs make me happy. This was a breakthrough. Now it's 97% done, so I'm giddy about that and we're going to talk about it today. But before we get into that, welcome.
Speaker 2Welcome to another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
Speaker 1I'm Angela and that's my bestie of almost 50 years, leslie. We're two intellectually curious older Black women. We like to push against the boundaries of life, especially as older women. We like to just challenge assumptions and stereotypes and all of the things that put us in boxes and don't allow us out of those boxes. So today we're going to be talking about relationships how they used to be done, how they're done now, all the things, a little bit about our experiences, some things that we have noticed. In particular, leslie found something that she brought to my attention. I'm like yeah, let's talk about it, les, let's talk about it, go.
Speaker 2Okay, I came across this video today but it actually started before the video. But I'll tell you the video now. It's called Pop the Balloon or Find Love. I had heard about it but I kind of thought it was a joke or something. But I think it's a real. Either it's a online show or television show or whatever.
Speaker 1Listen, I've heard about it, but it was just these shorts, so I didn't know it was this episodic show like program. I didn't know, I thought it was just these shorts that you know so yeah.
Speaker 2So it's a it's, it's yet another way of people trying to get into relationship with each other and find love. And it intrigued me because there's so many things that people I think people are lonely. That's one thing.
Speaker 1So what is it? Give them the premise.
Speaker 2So many things to find a partner. So in this particular show there are a line of people potential mates holding balloons and there's one person who was looking to find a mate. So, through a series of questions and answers, balloons get popped and the last person holding an intact balloon is a potential mate for that person.
Speaker 1And the balloons can be popped either by the mater or the matee.
Speaker 2Or the person in line, be popped by the mater or the matee or the person in line. So, for example, if there's, in this case, there's, a man standing there and she says you know, my um, I must have someone who had is such and such, well, if he knows that he's not compatible with her for whatever reason, you know, he can pop his balloon and take himself out the running.
Speaker 2But I I immediately thought of that TV show Love is Blind, and you know the other marriage shows and things like that and I really wonder, like do these things really work?
Speaker 1Okay, what do you think? Do they really work? Well, before you answer that, like refer to the particular episodes so that people cause we're going to talk about some of the questions that she asked.
Speaker 2So it's Pop the Balloon or Find Love. Episode 36 with Nita.
Speaker 1N-I-T-A. Okay, perfect, perfect yeah, perfect, perfect yeah.
Speaker 2But you know what Something drew me to look at this and it was just random that I came across this. I'm at work, you know. No, I dress like this all the time this morning we had a chat for about 30 minutes or so this morning. We were talking about relationships and she's originally from India and we got to talking about the old ways of courtship and she said that when she was young, because her culture the men and women did not date per se, certainly not in the American sense she would watch these television shows and I guess it was the Bollywood love stories and the man would look't know each other very well, but either family, friends or people who are knowledgeable about the couples and their families put them together and it got me wondering do these marriages last?
Speaker 1Do they work and how do they compare to the American way that we fail so strongly Listen, they last, in that it depends on what you mean by last, because you know the love can last, the friendship can last or not, the, you know, parenting can last those things the marriage can last in terms of not ending in divorce, but does that? Does that lasting aspect of it? Is that the most desirable thing? Just just in an extreme case, a marriage can last. That's an abusive marriage right.
Speaker 2It can last for the whole life. What is the point of longevity Is the question. Are these unions happy and fulfilling Right?
Speaker 1And are they supposed to be? Because I know that the whole idea of love in marriage and marriage requiring love and so on is fairly recent, even in Western cultures. It used to be that you married for maintaining a certain line, maintaining certain wealth, and you found love elsewhere.
Speaker 2it was an outside relationship permissible? Yes, because you loved elsewhere, but you were married for business reasons, or to keep the family together, or to procreate and make a family, or what have you exactly it wasn't that deep knowing passion necessarily right that american marriages are supposedly right, it was.
Speaker 1That was that was considered to be like ridiculous silly. Why would you ever?
Speaker 2do that. I mean like, why would you ever do that? But not for marriage, because the whole thing is.
Speaker 1You know the legality of marriage. As soon as you think of marriage, as in the legal sense, you're thinking of it in terms of um it's, it's not a, that's not a spiritual bond. The legal part of it, it is a maintaining money maintaining whatever those ties.
Speaker 1So yeah, it was. It was really considered ridiculous. Either you got love or friendship from a friend or you found love in other ways, and as long as it didn't mess with the marriage or mess with the kind of perception of the perfection, then everybody was cool, everybody, I see did it, so it's pretty so this it's, it's like um. So, to answer your question, all the stats that I've seen um arranged, not kind of like non-love marriages. They last a long time, yeah but, again um, what?
Speaker 1what does lasting mean? And what are you getting married for? And all of those things. I remember once when Andy, in my first marriage it was so I mean I laugh at it now, but it was really, really upsetting. I was going through something and I called a dear friend, another friend from high school, and that's kind of our inner circle, friends are from high school and I was upset because I don't even remember what happened. But what I said to her was you know, he doesn't even even try to make me happy. And listen, I was bawling like ugly cry, ugly cry, and she, she said it's not his responsibility to make you happy. And I was.
Speaker 2I was so angry at her? What do you?
Speaker 1mean, what the fuck? What are you talking about?
Speaker 2Well, whose job is it? Whose?
Speaker 1job, is it? If it's not, my husband's job? But of course she was right. She was absolutely right. That's not where the source of my happiness should come.
Speaker 1Yeah, you know but we can pull that apart a little bit. But that is something I'll never forget because of how it kind of arrested my thinking and it went from being really angry at the idea of it and and, to a point where it was like, of course, of course you're right, but that was a lot of growth in between but you know, and that reminds me of, uh, when I would complain about being unhappy, you know he would say to me, like you always come say you're unhappy and and you're not supposed to be happy.
Speaker 2you know, like, like that was so unimportant. I think the thought at that time well, with many Christian marriages is that you are not supposed to please each other per se as you please the Lord. Your union is supposed to be pleasing to the Lord first, and I guess if you don't find pleasure, or happiness in it. All. Right, too bad, you know. But he would be like almost sad, like very critical of me, you know, trying to explain that I was not happy and I was looking for some change, right?
Speaker 1you know, okay, so honestly though, um, uh, um, some of the questions that came up in this episode, that you that you made me watch um was um. Like how, how do you define love right, if, if, if, yeah, how do you define love? What does that mean to you?
Speaker 2And it could be love slash happiness, if that helps you to answer the question. No, I don't think happiness and love are two different are involved. I don't think that they're linked and they shouldn't be linked per se.
Speaker 1Oh, okay.
Speaker 2Now, I think that your partner should love you for sure, but I agree with you that it's not their responsibility to make you happy per se.
Speaker 1So how do you define?
Speaker 2how do you?
Speaker 1define love.
Speaker 2That was one of the questions and I kind of laughed at it. I'm like what a ridiculous question you said what a stupid question. What are you talking about? Why would that?
Speaker 1Les? Why would that be a stupid question? Listen, if you think it's a stupid question, that means you better have a badass answer.
Speaker 2What's your answer? Look, now I'm getting hot, so you just asked me how do I define love? And you see, I'm dressed differently.
Speaker 1We had to take a little break.
Speaker 2I'm laughing so hard and maybe because right now I'm just so jaded in all of that I had to take, I started sweating, oh my gosh. You see, I had to take my jacket off.
Speaker 1Hilarious, I'm not going to answer that question.
Speaker 2I'm throwing it back to you.
Speaker 1Is my mascara still on? Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2Hilarious. So she asked one of the people how do you define love? And I'm like what a ridiculous question. I just don't think that that question leads to people being compatible. But I don't know, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1How do?
Speaker 2you define love, if you think that's relevant.
Speaker 1I do think it's relevant, because one person could define love as love is when I feel taken care of and pampered, and my um, when I come home from work, um, I have someone that is listens, and you know right, it could be okay, okay, I know what some people could say, yeah it reminds me of the five love languages.
Speaker 1Right check, okay, yeah or, or it could be, yeah, yeah, something like that. Or it could be that love means and some. What I would say is how I want to feel loved and how I freely give love, and the way that I freely give love which may be two different things.
Understanding Love and Compatibility Questions
Speaker 2Right, yeah, yeah, so, yeah so, but but I I think the question is very very revealing about how you define love. The other thing and and I think maybe this is a couple of reasons why I bristled when I heard her ask that as one of the questions on online one. It's it's very superficial and it almost feels like that. I felt like it was almost visceral, like they like like she was putting people on the spot and maybe that's the point of it, you know, putting people on the spot.
Speaker 1I don't know it, just almost why would a show about relationships, where you're trying, I don't know, I don't know, this is something that you're catching me at a time when I'm not.
Speaker 2It's almost how I feel about christmas don't speak to me ask me to record on december 25th.
Speaker 1So right now I'm not.
Speaker 2Maybe I'm feeling a little jaded about these things which is why, you know, I'm having this like ah, love, what is that anyway, you know that kind of thing, but you know what? I'll tell you what I would want from love.
Speaker 1I don't know how to define love, but what I would want from love is something that I've always thought about.
Speaker 2I want my love to seem, I want to be seen. I want someone to know my heart and understand where I'm coming from and what my intentions would be. You know, I'm not looking for the absence of conflict, but I'm more looking for someone who's understanding and caring. And also willing to, you know, take care of me in ways, obviously, that are important to me not necessarily important to them, right, you know, to me that would show me that I'm loved, right.
Speaker 1But you know, on a quick.
Speaker 2it's almost think about the speed dating that people do to find compatibility. Yeah, I think if you ask someone in a speed question like how would you spend a free Saturday afternoon is a better indicator of compatibility.
Speaker 1And I think that's what I mean.
Speaker 2It's such a deep question that to try to do it in a few seconds, to be cute or attractive or whatever is not, would not be revealing enough, or?
Speaker 1even truthful perhaps. Okay, got it, and I think that's what I understand, fully understand. Okay, you feel better, do you?
Speaker 2do I look?
Speaker 1better um yeah that was hilarious. Listen, guys. We had to stop recording because we were crying.
Speaker 2We were laughing so hard at my inability to define love.
Speaker 1Here's why. I think it's as good a question as any other. Okay, right, because that could be the answer. The answer is love is really a deep thing. It's not something that I could respond to really quickly. That's very telling about a person who answers that way, right.
Speaker 1It does not have to the answer. The question does not need kind of a prescribed. The answer has to look like this the way that an answer makes you feel, the way that an answer what an answer, what a question brings up for you, the way that a question makes you feel, you felt immediately that that's a silly thing.
Speaker 2I really did.
Speaker 1Yeah, right To me that is a value, that's a good question, that is the value of the question because it's saying to the other person um a lot about you in whether you think this is silly. I'm not saying that that's what you think.
Speaker 2You're right about that, and it leads to more questions.
Speaker 1What do you mean by silly Well, I don't think it can be answered so quickly. Versus well, that's stupid. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2And isn't the way that each of us responded to that question, telling about where we are in our lives right now?
Speaker 1Yes, when we are, how vulnerable we are by nature, because I just wanted to jump into that question.
Speaker 2And you were like what, wait a minute, what we were talking about love. Now we're talking about love, we're talking about relationships. I thought we were talking about love.
Speaker 1Now, we're talking about love. We're talking about relationships. I thought we were talking about relationships. That was a trick question.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, I thought it was a little Love would a trick question.
Speaker 1I thought a better question that they asked.
Speaker 2She asked them how would you go about your work-life balance? What does your work-life balance look like? I think that's a little bit more of an appropriate question for the setting that we're, you know.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, I, yes, I see that. I could take either one, yeah.
Speaker 2I could take either one yeah.
Speaker 1I could take either one, okay, and another question she asked is what does success look like for you?
Speaker 2Which I thought was a really good. I thought that was a good one too Really good question.
Speaker 1Yeah, so if you were in that situation like Nita?
Speaker 2is that her name. So if I was the person choosing among different people, correct, okay.
Speaker 1Give me one question that you would ask that would help you to know them a little better, other than just what you see.
Speaker 2What you were looking at oh, oh, oh. What past relationship mistakes have. I don't know. Would you correct?
Speaker 1Oh snap Goody.
Speaker 2Goody.
Speaker 1Goody.
Speaker 2Because it, first of all, it makes them think about their past relationships. Yes, and it also makes that holds them accountable yes no-transcript.
Speaker 1I'm about to ask you the question Is there anything I know you ain't going to do that? I couldn't even define love.
Speaker 2Are you kidding me? Say what love looks like. Now you're going to ask me. We are not talking about Leslie here.
The Complexity of Relationship Dynamics
Speaker 1We are talking about the different types of how people are coming together, and yes, and and asking questions and things like that, and we're also as we always do. We are sharing about our experiences I forgot deflect. You forgot, you forgot that's what we do on this podcast on this while I think about that.
Speaker 2What question would you ask if you were?
Speaker 1in that situation, what I would ask is what's your favorite place to travel?
Speaker 2That is a really good question. That is a really good question.
Speaker 1I would ask that because I would get a sense of whether they like the pampering, whether they like the rugged, whether they like outdoorsy, whether they like um, how adventurous they are, whether they like to kind of learn the culture, or just from one sunny place to another.
Speaker 1All I care about is the beach. No judging, but that would be very revealing to me as a short question in a situation like that. Yep, yep, that's a good one. All right, so I'm going to take this double, click on it and take this conversation a little deeper, right? So I want to answer your question about what is something that I learned that I would change.
Speaker 2I have an answer for that now too, oh good.
Speaker 1Oh good, oh good, Do you want to go first?
Speaker 2Yes, okay. So in past relationships, what I would do to change is recognize when it's time to split. When it's time to split, recognize when we're better being friends than we're being partners, and what I think that would do is preserve, you know, respect, love and caring for another partner, because before bitterness or anger sets in, right yeah, and I think when people are in relationships, in bad situations or unpleasant situations too long, you get to a point that it could be irreparable.
Speaker 2I've seen that not just in my own relationship but with other people's relationships too. It's like you kind of got to know when things aren't working anymore for you. And there are some people, I mean, that we love so much or want to be with so much, that we don't recognize that they are better in this place than in relationship or in marriage with them, that they are better as friends or they are better as business partners or they are better as this.
Speaker 2And when you try to fit a square peg in a round hole, you know the friendship and the relationship can break down irreparably. Wow. Yeah, I think that's what I would do differently if I had it to do over again Since you went first.
Speaker 1it's like the opening act. Now it's hard for me to come behind that.
Speaker 2I should have gone first.
Speaker 1You see that Jumping early say that jumping early, what um? One fundamental thing that I learned um and this this has been a while but it was it, it was a very important part of my growth in relationships is understanding that, um, you could it's not about changing who you are for someone else to fit into someone else's ideas of who you should be. Before kind of a committed relationship, you show a version of yourself that, um, and you kind of emphasize a version of yourself. It doesn't mean that it's not a part of you, but you emphasize this version of yourself and then,
Speaker 1the relationship then requires you to either maintain that and it's like, oh I, I can't keep up with that. It's a part of me, but it ain't a big part of me, or it's not that, it's just a part of me that I thought you would like best, and so I put that up front so you can check it out and see if you, if you, like it. But when it becomes a relationship and you have to maintain that, to maintain that right and that could be in you know how you dress or how you present your face, whether you're you know, you only show the person what you look like with makeup on, or you know, dressing a certain way or it's, um, whether you kind of subdue your points of view because it feels so good to be in this, in that space.
Speaker 1You don't want to really tell them how you feel when they said that thing, when they acted the fool at a party and embarrassed you and you kind of diminish it that that.
Speaker 2So what I learned is to be more fully myself and I was just going to say show your full self, Not to mask.
Speaker 1And that doesn't come up in one conversation, obviously right, because sometimes that can come on too strong if you're just always kind of reacting Well, no, that's not, I don't agree, you know that, but just kind of have that mental space that I'm gonna be fully myself in this um relationship and um you know it's so.
Speaker 2That's a hard balance, though you know that's a hard balance. You don't want to be ah, you know it's yeah, because you're a lot I'm a lot I'm a lot, I am a lovely lot I am but you know, yeah yeah, oh my gosh um.
Speaker 1So she actually chose a person. Um, and what did? Would you have chosen that person for her? Was that your, your um? Was that the person that you would have chosen? When you saw all the people go down when she popped the other balloons?
Speaker 2I would have chosen that person for a couple reasons. One. I like the way he looked. I think he was very handsome and she's beautiful, I think they made a good couple but I like the fact that he was foreign, very handsome, and I think they and she's very she's beautiful. I think they made a good couple but I liked the fact that he was foreign. He, um, I'm not sure where he was from, but he seemed um, um, I believe, african, or perhaps Caribbean.
Speaker 2Um and I think their cultural the cultures would mesh pretty nicely.
Speaker 1Right, right. Um, yeah, I the cultures would mesh pretty nicely Right, right you know, yeah, I like that. It's funny. It's funny you should say that. So the whole idea and you mentioned Love is Blind and what we take away from the looks versus. I couldn't even tell you what the guy looked like to be honest.
Speaker 1I remember what he was wearing, but I loved what he had to say. I don't know what guy looked like, to be honest. I remember what he was wearing, but I loved what he had to say. I don't. I don't know what he looked like. I love the way he answered her questions and, but my framing is not really um. Attractiveness yes, but looks is not what's right in front for me, because five sentences in I could be turned off by the most attractive looking person.
Speaker 2That's a true story.
Speaker 1But I liked her choice. Four sentences in what about the next morning?
Speaker 2Four sentences in Her tongue might still be out, and then five or six sentences in. What about the next morning? No, four sentences, yeah, your tongue might still be out, and then by the fifth sentence it'll be start rolling your tongue back like, yeah, we've all seen that movie before yeah um, yeah, so um, yeah, like so you would have chosen him for her as well.
Speaker 1I would have. I think they seem like a good match in the questions how he responded to the questions. I think he asked her a question or two also.
Speaker 2They seem like definitely worth a couple of days to see, to see what's's going down. What's going down.
Speaker 2I want to say something about that, though, with when I mentioned uh, we both mentioned now love is blind and you know, we hear, like the fairy tale part is, you have to have a heart connection and it's deeper than just looks and all. And that's what. That's the whole premise behind that show Love is Blind, which I've watched a couple of seasons. But ultimately, as much as we want to think that the looks don't matter and it's really the heart, I don't think very many of those relationships are ultimately successful.
Speaker 2And then what happens is they say you know, we really I didn't, I couldn't get over the looks, part of it you know and and and now we can talk again, revisit the cultural, the cultural upbringing that we have here, perhaps in America versus other different kinds of places or cultural styles of unions and dating. Because in America versus other different kind of places or cultural styles of unions and dating. Because in America we are very visual and we stress looks, appearance, money, you know, yeah, but I'm just talking about looks right now.
Speaker 1But money is big, also Money in terms of how money can make you. Look, is what I mean. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2Yeah, that kind of appearance is huge here. So people who have grown up in this culture I don't know if we can effectively tamp down how important looks are to our relationships. Important looks are to our relationships In other cultures.
Speaker 2As I said, my friend is Indian and she said that that is not when people get together in her culture. And this could be a while back, because we're about the same age. You know, it really wasn't as much about what a person looked like that was extra, or you know that was good, well and good, but that wasn't as much about what a person looked like that was extra, or you know that was good, well and good, but that wasn't the thing that would bring two people together.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1I'll get a little personal here, so I'm dating again, right?
Speaker 2I don't have time.
Speaker 1I don't have no, I'm kidding, I'm finding the time and I I I'm not going to say that looks don't matter. That's not true, but for different reasons, looks matter to me Explain what you mean. Well, number one. It's absolutely not the first thing that I allow much more Looks at the first thing that I consider, I mean, I get that I get that, and so because I get that I get that and so because because Personality and Kindness and level of friendship kind of how we see the world if those two things are in sync.
Speaker 1Um those things, because a friendship is really a big part, the most important part of what I want in a partner right and so um. So that allows more people to come in than okay, you're not the right look, so so you're out. Sure sure, within reason, right, I just mean kind of I don't have the checklist of. You have to be this tall, you have to be this whatever. And it wasn't always that way Like you had to look good in a suit yeah yeah.
Speaker 1You did. You had to look good in a suit. Yeah, yeah, you did, you had to look good. You had to look good in the suit.
Speaker 2I understand why it wouldn't be the top one or two things, or or even the top three. Let's say but let's say that you develop the friendship with a partner and you were connected. Is it possible, then, not to be physically attracted to them?
Speaker 1Well, I didn't say anything about, so I want to go back a little bit when I talk about looks.
Speaker 2It's things like Because you know that when people are really nice and sweet and we're into them, they start looking better to you. They do Because you see, you see so, so you see something different I'm looking at um, do they?
Speaker 1do they have kind eyes? What's? The smile um, a sweet laugh, you know it's. It's those types of things that can become very endearing and attractive to me yeah, yeah, yeah do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2yeah and so it's um whatever big ears I could fall in love with a big ear, you know, because, like I said, like I said before, and if other people are attracted to them all of a sudden, let me take a second look.
Navigating Online Dating Dynamics
Speaker 1You know, they're not so bad yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's that, it's that. But, um, yeah, and and you know I've mentioned it before I've tried a few different online dating apps over the years and um. They are both frustrating and also I have found love. Yeah because they're frustrating the concept just seems so what could go wrong?
Speaker 2They're frustrating.
Speaker 1I use that word frustrating right up just the whole um, all the people you have to swipe through. That is just like really why are you on here?
Speaker 2and you know you know, probably listen, I've never a lot of swiping, I've never, ever even gone on a dating app, I know. But what I would love to do have a couple of drinks and a couple of gummies and just for an evening. Just it seems like it would be a blast yeah it would be you can.
Speaker 1We can do that with mine if you want, I'll tell you I don't, I don't want to play with anybody's emotions. No, no, no, no. I don't want to like swipe and all of so.
Speaker 2I don't want to like swipe and all of this stuff if people know that it's just for fun and a night of hanging out.
Speaker 1You know how would you know?
Speaker 2Well, I don't know.
Speaker 1I don't know, if you swipe, how would you know? They're gonna know. In other words, don't touch stuff.
Speaker 2Just don't touch any buttons Les.
Speaker 1You know any buttons less you know me, and all of a sudden it's like I don't see that you're ghost, yeah, when you decline, when you decline, it's not this. You know, um, I don't know you. I don't think you can be on a dating app and get upset if somebody declines you if you've never spoken to them do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2if you've never just just upon, look, that's not the place for you.
Speaker 1It's not the place for you, because it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen a lot. It could be anything. Some people you know it could be for any reason. You're wearing pink.
Speaker 2They don't like pink it could be any reason. So glad I am not in that situation though I don't know it's um, I don't think I'd be good at it um, I don't think I'd be good at it.
Speaker 2One, I think I'm probably wouldn't be I think I'm too I would say fragile, but I'm too, like, vulnerable, like my. I think. I don't know, maybe I'm not go, I'm not guarded enough, I don't know, I wouldn't I gotta take my coat off again and start to sweat. You start to sweat again. No, it's like I don't think I would be good at this. Okay, that's fair.
Speaker 2I don't know what do you think I guess it would depend on the site and all of that too. Well, yeah, that matters, I guess, but would depend on the site and all of that too.
Speaker 1Well, yeah, that matters, I guess, but you have so much control over.
Speaker 2You know, I like control.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, you do. So you have control over what gets through, how you see and how many? But that matters to some degree, but, but not a lot. You do have those levers that you can, um, you know, widen close down. You know, um, depending on the app, you can say, um, which ones are deal breakers, which ones are not. Must have can't stands.
Speaker 1You know those types of things um, but I think that, um, some of the things you have to be careful about is that they do have the potential to create, um, a kind of intimacy very quickly and is it because the reason they're there is because they really want to find someone or whatever A forum for desperate people.
Speaker 2I don't mean that in a prerogative sense, I'm just saying, oh, you don't mean desperate.
Speaker 1What do you mean? If it's not desperate, what word?
Speaker 2No answer. What I mean is I don't want to disparage anybody like me, like me who's on? Well, no, what I'm saying is if you're going online, yeah, I'll say less no, but really okay, think about it.
Speaker 1right, people have their ideas about going online to date, right? I mean, what is the alternative? What is the alternative? Well, that's what I mean.
Speaker 2It's almost like are the people online dating? Is it like a last ditch? I've tried this. I tried this, I tried this, leslie?
Speaker 1what are the thises, what are the alternatives?
Speaker 2I've talked to people and tried to meet people. I've looked at people at work, I've gone to gyms. Now supermarkets, I hear, are a great place to meet folk. You know it's like so they've done the IRL stuff. So now? So, in other words, is that something that people go to initially to meet people, or is that after you've tried other things and you still find yourself single?
Speaker 1okay then, yep my thing is my thing is just purely from a logical point of view, the things you mentioned people in the supermarket what makes people in the supermarket or at bars or um, or where else, or at work, what makes them any more like, oh, those are the better places to to find people, that no only because go ahead.
Speaker 1Go ahead. I just mean from the sense of you have to have tried those, because if if you don't do those first, then it's kind of desperate. You go to online dating. For me it was the opposite. I went to online dating because I wanted to evaluate people to see how much time did they put on their profile? What are they saying on their profile? How is the communication between us? Where do they have pets? I can find out all these things about them right in the first 5-10 minutes.
Speaker 2You can't find that when you're if it's real if it's authentic.
Speaker 1It's like yes, but so is it that part.
Speaker 2You can't see those kind eyes online versus over eggs?
Speaker 1Yes, you can, because guess what you can move from that if it checks all the boxes, you've done all of your whatever. You can move from that to this other calling, video, chatting, maybe meeting in person you can move to that.
Speaker 2To me, the chances are much better that you use an online app sensibly, responsibly with your spidey senses than these other ways of you know the ways that we used to, Because people can present themselves sitting on a bar stool completely different from who they really are, and you know yeah, yeah, and it can go from an online situation to a bar stool very quickly if you want it to.
Speaker 1Yeah, and so it's not either one or the other. It's. I wouldn't look at it I wouldn't look at me. It's been um, it's, um, there it's. It's not an easy process. It takes effort, but if you are looking to find a relationship, you're going to have to put in effort, right and so it's not, and I think that's the case in any case, I think that's real in any case. Yeah.
Exploring Online Dating Intentions
Speaker 2So so far so good. Well, I just thought of something, what you hear I'm talking, and I just said okay, said okay, I'm gonna look at it or whatever yeah, I think that that's not a good thing for me to do, and I'll tell you why. Why I don't want to disrespect the process, you know, because if you think about it. The people that are sincere about looking for a partner online are not there to be mocked or joked about or this or whatever. You know this is serious.
Speaker 1Yeah, but it's not really Les Don't get so much. Listen, let me tell you. Okay, can you trust me, because I've been on the apps and you haven't? How about that? Okay, okay, maybe, okay. There are people who just want to date. There are people who just want to date. There are people who just want friendship. There are people who just want to hook up. There are people who want long-term.
Speaker 2They're all of these people. They don't care if I'm looking and laughing, they don't care if you're looking and laughing, whatever.
Speaker 1It's not that it doesn't have to be that serious. It's not like an all or nothing. Like you're in it I'm going to. This is where I'm going to find the love of my life. I'm black and white.
Speaker 2You are black and white.
Speaker 1So exactly.
Speaker 2I am, so this Black and white.
Speaker 1Right, but but a part of and I've told you this before there's so much that you learn about yourself, that I've learned about myself.
Speaker 2Oh, you did tell me that.
Speaker 1On these apps, you know what is real about me and what is just something that I want to be so right Am I?
Speaker 2really this open, can I?
Speaker 1really date someone who's really short, can I? You know all of these things. When you're faced with it, you know whatever, whatever. All the other boxes are checked, but it's a height thing, is it? Is that really going to be what? Yes or no?
Speaker 2you know what I mean.
Speaker 1You get to really kind of see yourself, and it's not necessary that you would want to change these things, but you get to know who you really are, and so I think they're amazing in terms of social experimentation so it's not.
Speaker 1It doesn't have to be this um very serious like, yeah, it's like, and in the same way, like I've met people, friends, just online, I've met people who I know, love and trust. I met them online and now they're no longer online, or some of them still are, and so this idea of online is fake. It's, you know, it's sinister.
Speaker 1It's all of that. Again, you have to have your spidey senses and all the things you can't um, but in my experience, um online. Look at this whole community of people that we've found through exodus, summit or you know those types of things, people that I, that I that I trust. Um, yeah, that, um, yeah, that's a different thing, you know what's the difference in terms of are these people fake or are these people real?
Speaker 2I think that it depends on your incentive. Again, if someone is looking for a hookup, let's just say and the person that they're looking at is looking for something more long-term.
Speaker 1But they say it Well, that's a setup for. But they say it Do that's a setup for. But they say it Well, do they? I don't know. Yes, Les, this is what I'm saying.
Speaker 2You can say what you're there for and it's okay, I'm a leak, yeah what?
Speaker 1do you mean, it's okay. What do you mean? I don't mean.
Speaker 2What do you?
Speaker 1mean, I mean like what do you like? Tell me, say more.
Speaker 2It's okay, Like what. It's okay to say what you want. They don't kick you off the site when you say I'm only looking for a physical relationship.
Speaker 1It's okay to say what you really want. I only want this. I'm married, I just. I just want a friend. I just want a side thing. I just want a friend to go to the movies. My wife and I don't share the same interest in movies. It could be.
Speaker 2Do they say I only want to go to the movies?
Reflections on Relationship Dynamics
Speaker 1It could be. It could be like, like you know, it's not um, and I don't want to minimize it that this we have to do a part two because we're going to go on and I'm going to talk about, you know what I've learned, and all of that.
Speaker 2So we need to come back to this yeah, but yeah, I may have, I may have some updates um when we when we come back and the bottom line is I guess you know when, yeah, I guess you can find people anywhere you know, or you can't find people anywhere you know.
Speaker 1It's like oh, when you're ready to put in the work and you don't have, you can be ready um, for a month and then it's like, or you know what I mean it's. It's not this um kind of big bad, whatever, take your time, yeah, check people out, um and um. I will probably have an update for everyone the next time oh okay, maybe me too. Maybe me too.
Speaker 2All right Can we go now, you've interrogated me enough? I think so. This has been another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn, brooklyn.
