Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
Slaying Dragons: How Negative Words Became Fuel for Success
Angella and Leslie explore how negative influences from their past unexpectedly became catalysts for success and personal growth. They reflect on how criticism and doubt from authority figures and partners shaped their determination rather than diminishing their spirit.
References mentioned in this episode:
Someone’s Thunder Podcast
Angela Pierce and Stephanie Klapper
Get Angie’s eBook:
We’re Too Old for This Shit! The Inquisitive Older Woman’s Guide to Joy http://joystrategy.co/ebook
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hey ang hey lans hey, folks, we are still in vacation mode, so we have another pre-recorded episode. That when was this what this one was from? About a year, two years ago. This was from, and it's called F, mr Reiner, and as we listened to it, we really realized that we were talking about how we slayed our dragons. Right, haters are gonna hate, but we slayed some dragons and we talk about it in this episode, mr Reiner, who was Mr Reiner Liz?
Speaker 1:So Mr Reiner was my fifth grade teacher and my interaction with him actually carried over the years. In fact, recording this episode will come up in therapy, yes for sure, and it really initiated a conversation with me and my bestie here and some other friends who have heard me for 50 years talk about mr reiner. So we really hope you enjoyed the episode. The rebroadcast rebroadcast up the episode. What do they call that? Like an oldie but goodie? Oh, yeah. Or are they talking about me? Like me, oldie but goodie? Or are they talking about me? Like me, oldie but goodie? You see, that's why I keep you around. But yeah, in this case we really did triumph over adversity. You know that's what we do. That's what we do. So enjoy this episode and don't forget to hit like and subscribe. Thank you, okay, hey, and how are you? I'm doing well, you look amazing.
Speaker 1:Thank you, you're noticing my little tan. I got a little toasty. As do you.
Speaker 2:You were laying out a little more than I was A little Well, you have a beautiful pool out a little more than I was. A little Well, you have a beautiful pool. Thank God that it's ready for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's been great just hanging out with you at the pool and enjoying our time together, our hiatus. What are we calling it? We're calling it Wellness Week. Wellness Week, yeah, it's been going great. It is so. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much Welcome to another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
Speaker 2:Brooklyn.
Speaker 1:So you know what I really found interesting about our being a guest on Stephanie Clapper and Angela Pierce podcast Someone's Thunder.
Speaker 2:That was so much fun. It was so much fun and I know you all caught it right Listen when you get asked to be a guest on an amazing podcast, we feel like we have arrived.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was big. I'm like, why would they want to talk to me?
Speaker 2:But they did want to and it was a wonderful interview with the two of us. I've been on their podcast before, but they've wanted the besties. And you know somebody over here her schedule was such that we weren't able to.
Speaker 1:I was saving lives. I was saving lives. I was saving lives.
Speaker 2:So we finally got on their podcast and it went so so, so, so, so, so well.
Speaker 1:So if you all haven't caught it, we will put the link in the episode notes so that no one can say that they haven't caught that. No one can say that they haven't caught so, but no, what was interesting about one of the questions that they asked to all of their guests is who or what was most influential in your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you remember what I?
Speaker 2:said I do because it was like a big, a big aha for you.
Speaker 1:Turned out. It really was a big aha moment because for some reason I couldn't identify what was like a positive influence in my life, but I brought up what I call the Mr Reiner moment.
Speaker 2:He was more than a moment. Well, he was a whole.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was a whole year. That's one thing, but Mr Reiner was my fifth grade elementary school teacher and while I can remember what he looked like, one of the most memorable things about Mr Reiner was that he told my then best friend then best friend he actually called up her mother and told her not to associate with me, something of the effect that I was bad news, trouble, and her mother should not allow her daughter, who is new to the school, to associate with me.
Speaker 2:So why do you think that came up as an influence?
Speaker 1:Well, one of the things is that the memory has lived for all these 15 years after the incident, after the incident.
Speaker 2:Leslie, you are hilarious.
Speaker 1:I'm like wait a minute. I saw you praying Fifth grade, 10 years, 15 years.
Speaker 2:Lord have mercy. Oh my gosh, no, okay, how many years, leslie. How many years that was 51 years ago. Oh my gosh, okay, how many years later. How many years that was 51 years ago 51 years ago, and you know that between me, you and others.
Speaker 1:Mr Ryan, his name comes up really often, all the time Because we laugh at the fact that he thought I was a near-do-well and that should stay away from me. And the reason why it came up in the podcast, seriously and sadly for me, is that, in addition to just being a running joke in my life, I realized that Mr Reiner did have a really big effect on me. Yeah, and what it actually what he actually did to me, I believe, was plant a seed of success.
Speaker 2:Because it was what like.
Speaker 1:I'll show him, kind of thing. I really think that I felt like I have something to prove to the Mr Reines of the world At age 10, I didn't realize how much of a competitive person I was at that time, but I've grown into I am, but I've grown to know that I am very competitive and it has informed my career choices for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:My educational experiences and so much of my life. And I, I, when Angela or Stephanie asked that question, he was the first thing that came up, that was a.
Speaker 2:I was shocked.
Speaker 1:You're like what the?
Speaker 2:what I was shocked, because the question was asked. You know, the expectation, I think was even for you, was that it would be a positive influence. You was that it would be a positive, a positive influence. But this has always been Mr Reiner in our friend circle has always been an indication of Stereotyping, stereotyping, but, but but I think, even more than that, it's been like look how much something that was meant for bad turned for good.
Speaker 1:And how wrong he was. Yeah, because we speak about him in the context of I wish Mr Reiner could see me now, when I get these awards. Or when I graduated from medical school, or when I got my master's degree and I was a teacher myself, you know we would always say, oh, where's Mr Reiner now? But the reason you and I have talked about it ever since speaking about that was that what if I wasn't the person that I turned out to be?
Speaker 2:Meaning, meaning what if I?
Speaker 1:did not have a competitive spirit? Or what if I allowed Mr Raina being an influencer in my life and my teacher and someone that I should emulate and listen to? What if I started believing the negative things that he thought about me?
Speaker 2:What do you think made you not do that? What do you think made you not do that?
Speaker 1:Well, a few things. One I think that God has had his hand on my life for as long as I've been alive, so I think that he has always meant good for me and wanted me and allowed me to live my fullest potential. Okay, and by doing so he gave me the family that I have to push me to excellence. He equipped me with the mental capacity to do that and a discerning spirit to pick friends who were good for me in my life and people that I should follow. He gave me a loving husband who has faith in me and et cetera. So wow, but for that to come up when Mr Reiner has been a running joke in our lives, to come up in a more serious moment, was a little unexpected for me.
Speaker 2:So I wonder, I wonder Liz, whether, whether have you ever had any? Has that ever come up in counseling, or any therapy that that you've had, that ever come up in in counseling, or any therapy that that you've had, because it came out of nowhere. So I'm wondering have you ever explored?
Speaker 1:no, I've never. I've never thought about that. Um, like I said, the only time that I consciously thought or spoke about mr Reiner was in a joke that's our friendship circle joke, leslie's Mr Reiner.
Speaker 1:But I really think about the other Mr Reiners in the world and how many people the Mr Reiners and I'll put that in quotes how they've influenced so many people over the years and their lives, lives decisions choices, and they may not have had those things that you mentioned, I've been fortunate to have to steer us in the other direction or to turn his words into a joke rather than take it seriously.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and have it be something. That kind of was like reliving the negative. So when you, when you, god, I just lost my train of thought. I hate that, you know why? Because I was so like intensely listening to you.
Speaker 1:It'll come back. It always comes back. But here's one thing that I was thinking, and when I was a high school teacher yeah, that's it, if I could, because I'll forget again.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, because I'll forget again, okay, okay. So you have mentioned a few times that the main reason why you stopped being a teacher. That's what I was going to say was because it wasn't your passion and you decided that the students under your leadership deserved someone who had a passion.
Speaker 1:They needed someone who had more passion about it than I did.
Speaker 2:And do you think that subconsciously it was? I'm not going to be a Mr Reiner, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I'll never be that. I'll never be that, I'll never be that. He was certainly someone I did not want to copy. I'll tell you that. Well, coming from a family of educators, I knew what a good educator looked like.
Speaker 2:Right, right and the conversations that we have had with my family over the dinner table.
Speaker 1:What a good educator looked like Right right and the conversations that we have had with my family over the dinner table about their educational endeavors. You know, I didn't feel that in my heart. But I also knew of the teachers that I was blessed and fortunate to have, that were the opposite of Mr Reiner, that were encouraging me and gave me the love of learning. And I mean I just think about on our week-long trip. How many times did I mention the Pythagorean Theorist? Yes you did. We are such nerds, such nerds.
Speaker 1:We're talking to landscapers about putting up a fence, and part of my property is sloped. So I clearly saw that as the hypotenuse, because we were trying to determine the height of the hill. Right, right, and I said we have to use, so we would determine.
Speaker 2:What was the base, what was the hypotenuse?
Speaker 1:The landscaper this 25-year-old kid was looking at us like these women have lost their mind and we were all into it.
Speaker 2:We made sense to us. This is how you do it.
Speaker 1:Witches to the eye like.
Speaker 2:And here's the 90 degree Shout. We made sense to us. This is how you do. It Witches to the eye. And here's the 90 degree Shout. Out to Brooklyn Tech. Shout out to Brooklyn Tech. Tech night, tech night.
Speaker 1:Tech 80. But I have memories of my teachers and instructors that I can visualize them in front of the class. You know, making education magic for me, Right, Okay, and then too, I just remember how dark and miserable being in Mr Reiner's class, and like my only fun was sitting behind me and us like laughing at my friendship with her.
Speaker 2:She didn't listen to him, or her mother didn't listen to him.
Speaker 1:So I knew that I wasn't giving my students what I had, and plus I had this other thing, medicine, pulling me outside of education.
Speaker 2:And that's why I left Right Awesome. A couple of things that come to mind. One is how many names of teachers who had positive influences on you Can you remember? That's not to put, to put you on the spot. That is to have us really think about how we're wired for the things that hurt, the things that causes pain or the. You know, when you, when you, um, when you get your grades, for example, it's like your parents will look at and say, oh, you got a 95, how come you didn't, how come you didn't get 100? Right, it's the part that it's kind of that um, the, the miss or the negative that gets the focus.
Speaker 1:I know what you're saying.
Speaker 2:Whether that and you know it's not like you have to answer it necessarily, but I just kind of wanted to. That thought came to me, yeah, and maybe it's a recognition of something that we might want to change that we do put focus on the things, that there's a whole area of psychology which is fairly new I don't think it's more than a few decades old called positive psychology. It's more than a few decades old called positive psychology and where psychology had been, how do you fix what's broken?
Speaker 1:in a sense Pathology.
Speaker 2:And then positive psychology is basically how do you accentuate what's working?
Speaker 1:What's working, what's working well, versus it's like the Google reviews or things like that.
Speaker 2:More people review negative experiences that they've had. No, we don't Not. Us Listen. We give positive reviews. It's like, yes, we will take the time to give the review for service providers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, positive for service providers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, positive. So I'll tell you some of the things that I thought about since that revelation that you had. I thought about some of the people in my life who took a lot of effort to try to belittle me Ooh yeah, a lot of effort to try to belittle me. Ooh, yeah, and fortunately I couldn't think of a lot of people, but I did think of a few people. You did. Call them out, call them out, call them out.
Speaker 1:If you are listening, we're podcast co-hosts.
Speaker 2:We're podcast co-hosts. Well, unfortunately, one of them was my first husband. I won't call him by name, but you know, oh, I will.
Speaker 1:Don't do it because you said that man.
Speaker 2:I'm kidding, he's become that man and let me just say, through him I have the most amazing, amazing, amazing children that anyone could ask for I heard you say amazing three times.
Speaker 1:Oh, you said amazing, amazing, amazing For three. Yes, oh, he said amazing amazing, amazing for my children.
Speaker 2:Yes, they are really some of the biggest teachers in my life, and so I just, you know, wanted to put that out there. Yeah, but you were talking about him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but he the word that he labeled me with for a significant part of our marriage is loser. Loser. Can you believe that? Yeah, and you know you'd like to think that. Yeah, but I didn't let that get to me. But of course it gets to you when that is how you are, by the person that you're in partnership with or desire to be in partnership with. That that is what not only is thought of you, but that is what's said of you.
Speaker 1:Where do you think that comes from? Or came from Because he experienced you as a professional woman?
Speaker 2:Master's degree Earning money, a lot of money.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying, ivy League educated.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But so where do you think something?
Speaker 2:Mother of his three children. Right, right, yes.
Speaker 1:Where would his perception of you, you think, come from?
Speaker 2:You know how they say sometimes like it's a mirror Sure sure, sure, I was thinking of that and wondering about Mr Reiner's life also, actually.
Speaker 1:But what's funny about Mr Reiner? I was always an A student.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I wasn't the student that got the 95s.
Speaker 2:I got the 100s, yeah, but the thing is that it has nothing to do with who we are.
Speaker 1:It's about them and our, who we are, it's about them.
Speaker 2:It's about them, and so, to answer your question, I think where that came from was projecting accomplishments that he didn't have, and so it was a way of well, if I don't have these things, I'm going to belittle the person who does. I think that is what was going on in that situation, instead of eliciting your help.
Speaker 1:Well, he couldn't ask you for help because, he had too much pride for that. Right right, right, right right, right something.
Speaker 2:That time and during that marriage is when my personal experience with Jesus Christ became really strong, and so there's nothing that I would change, because the result of all of that was a closeness to Christ that I'd never had before and that helped me a lot in kind of processing and understanding who I was, who I was in Christ, but and also who I was as a human being and so on.
Speaker 2:And that experience, and being strengthened by that, is something that I would never have changed. Given up when you find yourself going from being in a state of mind where somebody else is controlling your emotions to feeling like you're living such a principled life, life that your children aren't seeing you change your countenance when your husband comes home, right and being in joy with them, and then when dad comes home, everything kind of gets sad and sullen and just based on how he's feeling, or joyous and happy based on how he's feeling, and so, um, it was really, um, uh, uh, a transformational time in my life when I realized that trying to please was a very different thing than trying to bless someone. Pleasing someone and kind of getting into that enabling thing is what I changed, and it became more that blessing someone sometimes means saying no, you're not going to. It's not okay for you to treat me this way.
Speaker 1:Right, but how did you come to that?
Speaker 2:Well, I came to that because I started to realize the magnitude of my value.
Speaker 1:You know, I started to realize that what he saw, what he saw in me, had zero to do with who I was and it's so funny that you say that, because while you're speaking, I'm thinking the same thing, and I think this is why I never really held any ill will toward Mr Reiner. Instead, he just became a joke. No, no really, and that's why I didn't personalize it a joke? Now, no really, and that's why I didn't personalize it. Remember the YouTube interview we were listening to with Barbara Walters?
Speaker 2:and Dolly Parton today. Dolly Parton, my favorite. Yes.
Speaker 1:So remember how Barbara Walters was essentially insulting her and calling her a joke Over, and over and over again.
Speaker 2:Yes, aren't you a joke?
Speaker 1:joke, and you're a hillbilly and what have you? And Dolly Parton never broke her countenance and she never dropped down, she always stayed poised. Because she says that it seemed like she felt like I never took this woman seriously, right, right. She said in the interview I know who I am.
Speaker 2:I know who I am?
Speaker 1:yes, so she never took that on Exactly, and I think that's why I never, you know, succumbed or felt that way, you know, or really was beaten down by that man, even as a 10 year old. Right so when you say that about the state of your marriage, I get it, yeah, yeah, and I think for it's certainly in this case.
Speaker 2:I was much older than 10. But when you are in an intimate partnership and when your expectations of marriage look a certain way, yeah, yeah, and when you're not sure if it's you, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:You mean that's the problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, right. And then I know. For me, I was always considering what are my children taking away from this? That's true. It took me a while and, by the grace of God, reached the point where I was like what the what? This is not the way that it's supposed to be, this is not the way that I'm supposed to feel. This is not. You know, this is all his stuff and not mine. But it did take a lot for me to get there. But the change was fundamental.
Speaker 1:It wasn't like a him and then her, and once I knew I saw a change in you also because when you told me that you were divorcing, the two of you were separating and you were leaving the state and going elsewhere. It wasn't with that umbrella of melancholy you know, yeah, it was resolved. It was resolute Absolutely, and you and the children were looking forward to you know, this new type of thing.
Speaker 2:There's so much that was unknown. You don't want to look back Exactly. There was so much that was unknown, but I knew everything. I knew that I was going to be taken care of. I knew that there was better and solid and that I never questioned, despite all of the stuff that was going on, the labels or the mislabeling that your ex-husband heaped on you.
Speaker 1:do you think that that was any motivation for your future success in corporate, in your business, in entrepreneurship, parenting?
Speaker 2:Probably. I mean I really, I changed no-transcript.
Speaker 1:Of course, of course.
Speaker 2:That was at the core of all of it. At the core of all of it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But, Ange, you know what else that brings up, and I think this is the most important point about why we're speaking about this is that it makes us. It makes me more mindful of the things that I say to people, Absolutely, Absolutely. It makes me more mindful of how I speak to my patients.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:If I want to encourage a patient or if I want to educate a patient, I have to be careful and think about what are some of the messages that would be most effective.
Speaker 2:Right, okay.
Speaker 1:And have the most longevity with them Because, remember, the population of people that I'm speaking to are often ill.
Speaker 2:They're often troubled.
Speaker 1:They are often certainly distracted, and perhaps the last thing they want to hear is my advising them to stop smoking or chastising them, or yeah, right, right so I have to be mindful of my presentation, right, because we hear certain things in certain ways you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, I was also thinking about um how powerful words are. Remember that we used to say sticks and stones can break our bones, but words can never hurt us. You know I was thinking about that and the idea that words can actually kill. And can I go off on a little tangent, May I? It wouldn't be you if you didn't so seriously, seriously, right, when you think about someone like Emmett Till right.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Words, that woman's words, about her lie about what he did and who he was. And you know her lie about what he did and who he was, and you know, led to his um murder is is is not even the his um lynching his lynching his torturing um, the, the, the lack of humanity of any level that he was given was the result of this person's words about what he did to her.
Speaker 2:So words can kill. And she came to mind, really, because I won't even call her name, but she recently died and you all probably know that she recanted. She recanted her lie, she recanted what she said, that he spoke to her inappropriately, which led to to these men murdering him. And she died recently. And so she's kind of been in the back of my mind, not her, but the idea that words are so powerful and people just use them with so little regard. That's where my mind went as we were talking about Dr Reiner after the podcast episode.
Speaker 1:Don't call him Dr Reiner.
Speaker 2:I keep saying Dr Reiner, I don't Mr Reiner, fuck Mr Reiner. We will mark this as adult content but he really deserves that. He really deserves that. So have you considered forgiveness?
Speaker 1:What do you mean?
Speaker 2:Do you have unforgiveness in your heart for mr reiner?
Speaker 1:wait um, let me just for a second, you sounded like the end of a church sermon, like when my pastor would be at the pulpit and it's the end, you know, and he's about to do the altar call. The altar call, but before, after his sermon, he says so, do you have forgiveness? Okay, so that's what you sounded like, all right.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. Do you have forgiveness? No, but seriously, right, because we all know that forgiveness is not for the person who caused the wrong. Forgiveness is for the person who is.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you why I don't. I don't even think that's applicable in this case. Okay, and let me tell you why. Why I don't even think that's applicable in this case. And let me tell you why Because I did not spend 50 years being angry or upset with Mr Reiner and I think maybe it's indicative of my lifelong nature of being jovial and lighthearted and glass half full kind of lady.
Speaker 2:And sunshiny, and sunshiny, whatever so.
Speaker 1:I never thought that I felt the weight of that on me, right, you know?
Speaker 2:Right right.
Speaker 1:So I was never upset with him enough that I had anything to forgive. Are you now? I'm now no.
Speaker 2:Now that you've thought about him, you know what Fuck, mr Reiner, mr Reiner. You're forgiven and everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're forgiven, but still, you know, I remember one time we were joking. We've been joking about this man for a long time.
Speaker 2:And I never met the guy you know.
Speaker 1:But I just remember saying like I'm glad he's dead, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean the man was probably 50 or 60 years old, 50 or 60 years ago. At the right time.
Speaker 1:You know what? As a 10-year-old, he probably was 30. Right, he could still be alive. Oh my God, I tell you. Here's what.
Speaker 2:I'm going to do, bring it in. Well, go ahead. You want to?
Speaker 1:say something. I'm going to look him up. Okay, I'm going to look him up. I'm going to look him up. Okay, I'm going to look him up. I'm going to, I'm going to find out more about Mr Reiner. Okay, wouldn't that be interesting. That would be amazing. Could you imagine you should? Maybe? What if I found like his relatives, like his children and what? This is like a Louis Gates moment. Let's do it Like, let's go back and let's do it. I can't believe. I just said that.
Speaker 2:Let's do it. Let's do it.
Speaker 1:I love it. I mean he's you know, part of the New York City public school system he was and he's let's do it, let's get to the bottom of it.
Speaker 2:It may explain why he had this way of seeing you.
Speaker 1:I can't even believe what if they found out he was fired for impropriety or what have you? I wasn't thinking that. No, no, no, I don't mean impropriety, but I'm like he just messed up with too many people's minds.
Speaker 2:And it's like you're out of here.
Speaker 1:Get out of here, and it's like you're out of here. Get out of here.
Speaker 2:Okay, I think we should. I think that's a great idea. I think that's a great idea.
Speaker 1:This would be unbelievable. Stay tuned, season four.
Speaker 2:Listen season four.
Speaker 1:Not season four. Return of Mr Reiner.
Speaker 2:Okay guys. No, Mr Reiner explained.
Speaker 1:Mr Reiner explained. We'll make it scholarly, okay, all right.
Speaker 2:So you know what.
Speaker 1:This has been another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn, brooklyn.
Speaker 2:See you next time.
