Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
This is what the world needs now: two free-thinking “seasoned” Black women speaking their truth and inspiring others to do the same. Shaped by 45 years of friendship that began at the prestigious Brooklyn Technical High School through the Ivy League, medical school, marriages, divorces, triumphs, parenting queer children, life-threatening illness and many many amazing adventures. Each week, besties Leslie Osei-Tutu and Angella Fraser will push against boundaries in love, culture, careers, faith, politics and out-dated assumptions about women of a certain age. Remember, you’re never too old to change your mind…or your hair! (but more on that later :-)All views are our own and do not reflect the views of our institution/company. Information provided is not intended to serve as medical advice.
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
We're getting real about love, faith, and those moments that changed everything
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Inspired by Rachel Martin's "Wild Card" podcast, this week, The Besties tackle questions they've never publicly addressed before, creating moments of both profound insight and lighthearted humor.
The episode unfolds with vulnerability as they explore, out loud, deeply personal remembrances like when they first realized their parents weren't infallible beings, when they first felt deep pride in themselves, and what beliefs they no longer hold.
What makes this exchange special is how they navigate these vulnerable territories—pushing each other toward growth while honoring boundaries, demonstrating the beautiful complexity of deep friendship between two sixty-something Black women who've witnessed each other's evolution through decades of life's challenges.
Their willingness to question long-held beliefs and share these journeys invites listeners to examine their own life perspectives and the relationships that have shaped them
References mentioned:
https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510379/wild-card-with-rachel-martin
Here’s a wonderful conversation with Wanda Sykes:
Wanda Sykes on why fear isn't a big deal, coming out when she was ready and her new stand-up special
Get Angie’s eBook:
We’re Too Old for This Shit! The Inquisitive Older Woman’s Guide to Joy http://joystrategy.co/ebook
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Back in the States
Speaker 1Hey Ange, hey Liz, how are you babe?
Speaker 2So many things Good answer. So many things, so many things Ditto. But, I love the fact that we're back in these United States, both of us Somewhat united. These disjointed states. Let's just say we're back in the States.
Speaker 1I don't want to be a liar.
Speaker 2We're back in the States, yes, and I guess we got to like get ease back into the hubbub of these Americas, that's right.
Speaker 1These Americas Because there are other Americas.
Speaker 2Yeah, because we were in Central America.
Speaker 1We were in Central America, correct. But, we're back. We're back in Estados Unidos. Sí, sí, that's right, we are back. Yeah, and it's good to be back.
Speaker 2It is good to be back, but I noticed you spoke Spanish. You said those two words in Spanish. However, when we were abroad, when I asked you to order in Spanish, you're like I'm too hungry, Give me an English menu.
Speaker 1Listen, by that time I had moved into the hangry state and you were expecting too much of me. Too much of me. I almost said something.
Speaker 2But was it going to be in English or Spanish?
Speaker 1It was going to be in not too pleasant English.
Speaker 2Exactly, exactly. I don't want to know those words in Spanish. Excuse my French.
Introducing Black Boomer Besties
Speaker 1Excuse, excuse my cousin, excuse my cousin.
Speaker 2So let me start by saying welcome to another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn. If you guys know us, you know that we're always laughing, I mean especially today. You know we just we're just happy to talk to each other because we've been talking through WhatsApp. I came back about two weeks before she did so it's like my pal is not here in the States. Where is she? That didn't stop us from talking all the time, but you know, it's a little bit better, Maybe every other day, instead of three times a day. Yeah.
Speaker 1Welcome. I'm Angela and that's Leslie, my best friend of almost 50 years. That's five zero. We are two free thinking, 60 something year old women who have decided we have committed to live our lives more boldly and more joyfully, and we invite you to come along with us today, and we invite you to come along with us Today we're going to be asking ourselves some deep questions. Leslie struggles with this, oh my God. I not so much, but she has come a long way and I'm going to say this podcast has brought her a long way and it was her idea and it was my idea.
Speaker 2Why the hell do I bring up these crazy?
Speaker 1ideas. This is what you do. This is what you do.
Speaker 2I'm like what the who said this you.
Speaker 1You and I said great idea, Liz, let's do it and then it was like okay here we are, we're going to be asking ourselves questions and that get us to think deeply right, and to share those with you.
Deep Questions Inspired by Wild Card
Speaker 2I'm a public radio listener and.
Speaker 2I came across a new podcast slash radio show called Wild Wild Card with Rachel Martin, and what it is? It's an interview show of artists, musicians and creatives. And well, it has a twist. And the twist to me was very intriguing because, while I don't personally like going too deep in my thoughts, I like listening to other people. It's kind of like my voyeurism, I get off on it. So this show, wild Card, I'm going to read it. It says it rips up the typical interview script and invites guests to answer questions they've never been asked before about life's biggest questions.
Speaker 2So, you kind of have to go deep and I, knowing I was a little uncomfortable with it and you know that's just who I am, but I said I'm not going to. Each time I listen to the podcast or the radio show, I write down some of the questions. I'm like, oh, this is good, this is good. And then I'm like, ange, we should do this. I'm not going to look at the questions again. Obviously I wrote them, but a while ago, I'm not going to look at it again. And then I'm like when I even, ange, when I started talking to you about it, didn't I? I was standing up and I was like Leslie what did you do?
Speaker 1You went from excitement to dread.
Speaker 2I'm like what could go wrong? And then I'm like, but you're not into this stuff, you don't like this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1So I don't know Yet here we are and we're going to do it.
Speaker 2And that reminds me I think back in one of our prior seasons. It could have been season three or four, I don't recall.
Speaker 1Because we're at season 13 now, so it's been a while yeah.
Speaker 2So we also did a question and answer yeah, whatever. And I remember in fact we probably did it a few times and I remember one of the questions I'm like I'm not answering, that I'm not answering.
Speaker 1And we don't like push each other to do things that we just absolutely don't want to do, of course, but we do push each other to go beyond our comfort, right.
Speaker 2OK, so let's say I don't want to go to number five.
Speaker 1No, no, no, Leslie you push me. I'm speaking generally. Now I'm not talking about questions five.
Speaker 2I'm talking about level five. Oh yes, so you don't push me till I break, no, but you push me till I want to break. I push you till you bend. All right, so you get me to a level 3.75 out of five If I want to be, and I'm comfortable at two, but then I thank you for it. Bye.
Speaker 1Shoot that scared me. I'm good, that was my ring light dying, but we're going to keep it moving.
Speaker 2This is what happens.
Speaker 1No, but I know that it's on those edges that learning happens right, you have your safe and they're right on the outer fringes of your safe comfort zone.
Speaker 2You put that so eloquently.
Speaker 1It's where learning happens, and I want that for you, and you want that for me, and we want that for y'all who are listening.
Speaker 2It's true, it's true.
Speaker 1Let's do it. Let's do it, let's stop talking about a rip off the bandaid. What are the questions Now? You have the questions I don't, so you get, you get a. You can pick my questions I don't know, okay, and pick your own.
Speaker 2It's okay, we're gonna know we're gonna pick, we're to say the same thing, but you may need to go first, because I often need a little more time than you do to come up with answers.
Speaker 1I don't know if I like that we're both answering the same thing, but anyway, let's just jump in.
Speaker 2I didn't write down very many of the questions. That's fine. We just need. It's fine, and will you forgive me if I defer? Okay, I'm going to do my best. I'm going to do my best.
Speaker 1I'm going to do my best. Do your best. I'll get you after the show. So you know just, you ain't going to totally escape it.
Speaker 2I'm just saying as a child, when did you first realize that your parents didn't have all the answers?
Speaker 1Whoa. Okay, I'll say the first thing that comes to mind.
Speaker 1All right, and I'm thinking of something as well, but it's yeah, I remember distinctly freshman year in college is when I realized that my mother was a whole woman all by herself, and not just my mother or, you know, not just me and my siblings' mother. That's when I realized that, oh shit, I never saw her fully until freshman year of college and I can't recall in this moment what created that shift for me, but I remember it like it was yesterday. I remember the apartment I was in because I was living off campus. I remember the apartment I was in because I was living off campus and I remember it was a conversation either with her or one of my friends or my sister or something.
Speaker 2In-person conversation.
Speaker 1No, no, it was on the phone and I remember it was like a flood, it was like a click happened and I was like, oh, wow. And I just started thinking about all the things, and most of them were all the ways that I did not fully see my mother and didn't see that her vision was. Was the shit Like like what she wanted in life? And the way that she was setting things up, setting me up, setting my siblings up, the the things that she talked about getting, that I just kind of ignored or just I just didn't see her as a visionary, as the visionary that she was, wow, and I also never until then saw her as a woman who had, you know, had loved, loved partners, loved her husband, was devastated by her husband. You know those types of things like a real person.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1Like a real person until freshman year.
Speaker 2It's so interesting that you say that and wow.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2I'll give you my answer, but my answer is gonna be so ridiculous. See you go. So you, you do that deep shit and me I'm like way up there on in in the sky I'll just skim around the edges.
Speaker 1No, but seriously, that that was, that was when, and, and out of it, I think, came some regret. For sure, but out of it I'll kind of bring it to um how, towards the end of my mother's life, um, my mother died of um Alzheimer's or dementia because they hadn't diagnosed the particular you know um Alzheimer's in particular. I love you said that, like you know that most people in particular.
Speaker 2I love that you said that. Like you know that most people don't know that there are 20-something different types of dementia.
Speaker 1So dementia is flowers and Alzheimer's is a daisy, like my Panamanian daisies Anyway. So when I was caring for her, when she didn't know who I was, and I think that that realization that I came to when I was, you know, 18 or 19, helped me to care for her and to kind of release her from why is my mother acting this way? Why is my mother so different?
Speaker 2And you saw her in her own individual personhood yes. Oh my gosh, that's so profound Ange.
Speaker 1I'm telling you, I'm telling you.
Speaker 1And I was able to. I can remember this is the last thing I'm going to say I can remember bathing my mother one day and I'd taken the leave of absence from work because I really wanted to slow down to her pace and I remember bathing her and just taking the time to feel her like, touch her skin and remember all the things you know skin. I remember all the things you know. And so I think if I hadn't reached that, that point of seeing her as a whole person in my youth, I would have, it would have been a very different experience that I had with her as she came to the end of her life. So Wow.
Speaker 2There's so much to unpack.
Speaker 1Oh, the comment on that, listen, don't unpack me. Don't unpack me, just receive it. I'm just kidding. You didn't say anything about unpacking, you just said I had to answer.
Speaker 2So you want me to say uh-huh, no, really Ooh, interesting Amazing. Amazing. That's a note, go ahead. So there's so much. I remember about that time when mom was sick, just visiting her and caring for her and one of the things that I'll never forget. She said to me she didn't know who you were. She didn't know who I was either, and I would ask you know, like mom, do you know me or do you know me? And she's like no, but I know you love me.
Speaker 1Yeah. Remember, she said that it was like I don't know, but I know you love me. Yeah, and.
Speaker 2I just said like, wow, that's pretty deep.
Speaker 1I think if you came to that realization in freshman year when you were a late teenager you had the benefit on my own individuality and it was a little more, all about me and my desire to separate from my mother, and you know, so I was more self-focused than considering her as anything other than my mother.
Speaker 2And only after perhaps, I became a mother and even after that did I consider what her spans of young adulthood, motherhood and all of that must?
Speaker 1have been like Right, you know, but it came to all of that must have been like Right.
Speaker 2You know, but it came to me much later than you.
Speaker 1Yeah, okay, are you going to answer the same question?
Speaker 2I'm going to answer the same question, but it's going to be laughable, it's going to become part of the skit, of the snippet, because it's so ridiculous. It wasn't my parents, I'm going to say my caretaker, but I remember one Christmas Eve, you know.
Speaker 1Les, can I ask you to read the question again?
Speaker 2Yes, as a child, when did you first realize that your parents didn't have all the answers? Christmas was a big deal for us as children, right, and I'm sure I believed in Santa Claus, you know, and I just remember. You know it was a big deal, like my aunts and my grandmother and all. They would all come to the house and I don't know why. I didn't know why they would be at the house Christmas Eve. But we were in the bed and had to go to sleep or whatever. And I remember being awake in the middle of the night or at whatever time it seemed like the middle of the night to me and I heard my aunt say here's this gift. Wrap this gift over here and put it under the tree. Oh snap, and I was in the bed. Like what you mean? It doesn't come through the chimney, what so? So her big mouth yelling across the room when your ass was supposed to be sleeping.
Speaker 2My bubble was like and that was the end of my childhood. Oh, no, Stop it, stop it. You know, when you no longer believe in the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus, you might as well get married.
Speaker 1You didn't say that you might as well get married.
Speaker 2You're so funny. So yeah, that was my superficial answer.
Speaker 1Okay, listen, what's all this judgment? I don't like it.
Speaker 2Oh, okay, well, you wait till you hear the next question. Oh, okay, well, you wait till you hear the next question. If you think that's judgment, wait till.
Speaker 1I hear the random question. I wrote.
Speaker 2But it was random. I didn't look at it ahead of time.
Speaker 1You ready? I'm ready. Who's answering first? You?
Speaker 2Okay, whatever.
Speaker 1You know, because you're easier than I am.
Speaker 2Just go right ahead, babe. When was the first time you remember feeling proud of yourself? Oh, boy, and when was the last time?
Speaker 1Oh snap, okay, Okay, okay. The first time that I can remember feeling proud of myself was when I made first clarinet in junior high school for graduation. What, yes?
Speaker 2First of all, I've known you a gazillion years and I don't remember ever knowing that you played clarinet. I played clarinet, but I certainly wasn't first, second or probably third clarinet. I was fucking around chewing on the reed. Oh my God.
Speaker 1What?
Speaker 2Wow, yes, that's awesome, it was an elementary school.
Speaker 1It was junior high school, so middle school 258. Sorry, jhs 258. And actually here's the thing I was valedictorian.
Speaker 2No, I was valedictorian and I was valedictorian. I don't think I knew that either. I mean, I knew you were kind of bright.
Speaker 1I was valedictorian, but notice, that's not what I said I was most proud of, I know, is that I was first clarinet for that graduation ceremony. I made it to first clarinet for that. Mr Steinwinder, yeah, I think he was our music teacher, a big, tall, uh, just kind man teacher and, um, some of my closest friends at the time were in band also and I, yeah, I felt so proud of that because, you know, playing an instrument it's just, it was, it was new. I had to practice a lot. My mother god bless her she bought a clarinet for me, a used clarinet. When she saw that I was committed and that was another kind of mommy saw that I, I really wanted this and so, instead of kind of renting whatever she, she bought me one and I can still remember the smell of the case, yep, and so that was the first time that I can remember just being really really proud of myself, and when was the last time?
Speaker 1The last time was a few weeks ago. A few weeks ago, when I was in Panama and realized that I was doing something that I just dreamt about and that my family, my bestie, saw me and was there with me. And were there with me Because over the period of time that I was there, as you know, the first part of the trip was you and my sons, and then my firstborn, and then my sister and my niece. So I was on this thing where I was just talking about it, thinking about it, and then I was actually there and I was proud of myself for the follow through, for being um. I am proud of myself because it was just complete obedience to this, to this um, to this leading that I was given. And you know, you have all these internal yeah and did it anyway and was there. And while I was there, I really felt it. I really felt like, wow, and you, you, you're, you're doing the talk about this.
Speaker 2Yeah, Remember a couple of times we're like look around, look where we are it was like can't believe it.
Speaker 1So yeah, so that's it.
Speaker 2That's awesome.
Speaker 1Okay, your turn.
Speaker 2I'm having difficulty with the first time stuff and say one of the things I used to be very proud of was one of my escapes because there were three of us. One of the escapes I know I told you this story was I used to go to Nana's house and it was a big deal when you would go by yourself and your siblings didn't come with you. It was kind of like your special time with my grandmother and great-grandmother.
Speaker 2So Nana, both of them actually would sew. So I would go there and sew and make clothes and I remember I would make clothes and wear them to school. That I used to be really proud of. Because I just remember two things about this shirt I loved it because I really put a lot of work into it, but it had a pattern on it animals and there's two things and I wore this thing to junior high regularly because I loved it Good for you I cut the pattern upside down, so the animals were upside down they weren't right side up, right, right, right so what?
Speaker 2and at that point I didn't know how to make buttonholes so I didn't put any buttons on it okay and I think I would use a safety pin and, oh my gosh, whatever, but I was proud of the fact that I was wearing clothes that I created and Nana showed me how to sew.
Speaker 1Right, nice so that was an early. Thing.
Speaker 2Another thing that happened many a number of years ago. That I don't want to lose the feeling, yeah, but I was always proud of my fidelity and my faithfulness to my marriage and my commitment to my marriage.
Speaker 1Right, wow, you know, I mean we all know, now I'm no longer married, but it was a real.
Speaker 2It is a real sense of pride for myself that the commitment and the seriousness with which I, you know, put into it. You know, for many reasons it didn't you know whatever, but I still can say there are two people involved. There were two, yes, but but yeah, I, it's still something that I know in my heart. You know that. You know that, that that's one source of pride, and I think the last source of pride, time when I was proud of myself was just today. You know, I had six patients today.
Speaker 1And Wow.
Speaker 2Is that typical? Yeah, it's typical, it's typical. But one patient, actually two. In particular, I'm proud of myself when they tell me that I made their experience different. Oh nice Because I know as an anesthesiologist, that I can make them comfortable, put them to sleep, because otherwise they wouldn't have the procedure or what have you put them to sleep because otherwise they wouldn't have the procedure, or what? Have you, but yeah, when they go from, I'm so afraid, I'm so afraid to thank you.
Speaker 2You really made a difference, because many people are satisfied, and then they leave yeah, but the people who? Verbally tell you that you made a difference. I felt proud today and I heard that twice, beautiful. Yeah, so that was the last time I felt proud today, yay go you this one is, but I'm just gonna go like no judgment no, that's right, yeah, that's right. When do you feel most like an outsider?
Speaker 1Oh wow, leslie Pass no.
Speaker 2I almost want to pass. Well, I'm going to think of it. While you think of it, you want me to skip it and we come back to it.
Speaker 1Yeah, maybe Because I know what I want to say, but I don't know if I want to say it.
Speaker 2I see, I see I don't even know what I want to say, but I don't know if I want to say it.
Speaker 1I see, I see I don't even know what I want to say. Maybe we'll come back to it. I'm going to push myself, but maybe we'll come back to it.
Speaker 2Okay, I need to just get up and get my book right there with the other questions.
Speaker 1Hold, please, hold please, and I'll think about whether I want to answer because something else, something another answer came and I want to check myself to see whether I want to do the second answer because I'm running from the first one, or whether it's legit.
Speaker 2But you're brave, you do bold things. I do, and I also choose when I want to do them and when you're brave, you do bold things.
Beliefs We've Chosen to Let Go
Speaker 1I do, and I also choose when I want to do them and when I don't want to do them, because it's my prerogative. What you got.
Speaker 2What's a belief that you chose to let go of?
Speaker 1Oh easy, really, Really easy, really Easy.
Speaker 2Okay spill it.
Speaker 1I chose to let go of the first and, I believe, the wrong way that I was taught about homosexuality. I chose to let go of that and you were a part of that actually.
Speaker 2Really how so.
Speaker 1Yeah, I don't even know if you know this, there was Gosh. This was decades ago. There was, and it was profound because it affected me as a parent and then me personally as an extension of that right, and it affected my relationship with, with god and how I saw what I because I, okay, so this one is big, okay, so you, you, you know me like during high school, whatever I was like more a majority Right, and what I mean by that is not in the kind of, you know, like proselytizing fire and brimstone or in the in and out type of thing.
Speaker 1But you and my friends would come to me and I'm thinking about doing this. What do you think?
Speaker 2I still do that. I did that yesterday, so you have not let go of that.
Speaker 1it was good, it was kind of like well, you may want, you do you still do so this was. This was me in high school, right, um, and so I had these really rigid rules around things, and they were a set of principles that I had. It doesn't mean, listen, this is not about perfect, these are the rules. I broke them, I you know all the things, but I had these kind of codes of ethics that I used right Okay, as we all do, but yeah.
Speaker 1Okay, well, some of us I hope we all do but and I became, those became peppered more and more as I grew in my faith right, because I didn't really practice a faith as such in high school, but as I became a mom and so on. And you, on the other hand, had slack.
Speaker 2Base. Low and big, wanted Just you see Lego base low and wanton just you see Lego you, on the other hand, lawless, looking for trouble, no, no, no. You on the other hand. That's why Mr Reiner said to her mother what he did, and we were shocked that your mom let you hang out with me. I was trouble from way back. You know how they say. I knew she was trouble. That's what my former husband said. I knew what you were up to. I've known all along. I knew you were up to no good.
Speaker 1No, but all of that is funny. But that is not what I mean. What I mean is that you had a broader way of seeing things right than I did at that time and you. There was something going on politically. I don't recall that, but you said something and it started to crack the shell for me. You said you can't legislate love.
Speaker 1You said that and it started to crack open because it's like no, you can't, because you can't, it's, it's, it's this, it's just two different realms and um, and I remember this is going to be funny and I'm not going to go into this too deeply because I'm not trying to get people to understand I just want to say what happened. I just want to say what happened.
Speaker 2And we don't have too much time left.
Speaker 1Okay, so listen, you know I go deep. So so you know, we were part of a Bible study, Leslie and I and other other friends, and we were the last three of us standing. We were in it for like yeah, over 10 years, right. And so one time, leslie, I did something and leslie's kind of curse to me was you tax collector collector. I can't remember what it was, but it was her way of, you know right.
Speaker 1So it was like instead of saying you MF, she said you tax collector. And that was another thing in my kind of weird unicorn framing. It was like, oh my gosh, it's like you know, I get it. There were these rules at that time around certain things. Now it's silly to call someone a tax collector and think that that's going to hurt them in any way, but in those days that was the worst thing you could be.
Speaker 1And I'm going to kind of close it there. But that thing, that for me was another shift in the kind of norms of the day versus now and that was another kind of shell opening up more for me. I can go into it at another time, but I'm just saying that these things happen and fortunately they happened and my shifting started to really really because when I don't understand things and when you know it's like, oh, the Bible says and that if I can't find the love in it, then I know it's not of Christ. Right, it's like I'm looking for the love. If I can't find the love in it, then I look deeper. And it allowed me to look deeper and deeper, and deeper and it allowed me to become a better mother to my children and it allowed me to be a better, you know person to others and it allowed me to be more of myself.
Speaker 2And allowed you to know the word a little bit better.
Speaker 1Oh, that for sure. That part too, of course.
Speaker 2You know what does this really mean?
Speaker 1Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2How has it become adulterated, in real life and in practice Exactly.
Speaker 1I couldn't have said it better and you know it allows me like to be very open and talking to other believers about this, because it's kind of like you know, those who know better do better. My responsibility, since God put me on that journey to where I am. Now that I and I understand how it was before, I was on that journey Right and so I could bridge for people, and I try to take advantage of that whenever I can.
Speaker 2And I think that people I know that people come to knowledge when they're ready for it. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, you know yeah, hear wow, I can't believe you got me to talk about that yeah, and all I did was ask a question, but this one and all I did was be honest to you know, the first thing that came to me so I'm gonna say what is a belief I chose to let go of.
Speaker 1Okay.
Can Love Last Forever?
Speaker 2I no longer believe that love relationships are everlasting. I don't believe in soulmates anymore.
Speaker 1Ooh, snap, you know.
Speaker 2I I almost you know don't believe like oh, snap, say more. I almost you know, don't believe like I love you forever. Oh, this is you know when you know, and often, when people are like, oh, we're getting married, I'm like, okay, do it if you want to. Oh, my goodness. So I don't believe that you can. I don't believe in love forever, happily, ever after love.
Speaker 1Wow, you don't believe it's possible, or you don't believe that that is the goat. That is the goal.
Speaker 2I almost don't believe it's possible, but it could be, because I kind of think when they say two people you cleave into one person. I don't know that it's even possible to let yourself go, Let the self of who you are to let that go, and then another person has to do the same.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2And I know with my personal experience, it was almost like a million little cuts, you know, until we found ourselves at the opposite end of the spectrum, you know.
Speaker 1Okay, right.
Speaker 2So, and you know, the beginnings and the makings were like wonderful, it seemed, it seemed. You know. I can look back and say, you know, the foundation wasn't asings were like wonderful it's, it seemed, it seemed, you know. I can look back and say you know, the foundation wasn't as strong as I thought it was, but then I would say like, whose foundation is? You know, met very many people get married, um and coupled when they're in their low twenties and things like that. It's like many twenties, some things don't even know who they are.
Speaker 2I don't really know who I was until I was late thirties. You know. You know because I spent those early years being a mom.
Speaker 1Right, you know.
Speaker 2so just like you say you saw your mother as a woman. I didn't see myself as a woman until, uh, I finished doing some of the busy work of mothering.
Speaker 2Okay, and then I got right into the busy work of medical school and then I got you know what I mean. So I do you got to sit. But what I'm saying is that I'm not sure that human beings have that capacity for that single person love forever, I think I. I know that there are people that do it and it's wonderful, you know it's like oh, I just celebrate my capacity, or does that mean there is a capacity?
Speaker 1Well, I'm going to say it's.
Speaker 2I know. No, I think the unicorns can do it, but but statistics say most people cannot. If they're honest, you know we may. You know I stayed in my relationship, you know, when we lived almost separately in a way. So I'm not talking about that kind of existence. You can stay married, Sure, you know I'm talking about devoted and loving and connected for that amount of time, I'm not sure, but right now I'm pretty cynical, uh-uh.
Speaker 1Wow, and are you okay with being cynical, or that's something you want to challenge?
Speaker 2No, I think it's something that I want to challenge because, you know, right now I'm in a loving relationship.
Speaker 1Yes so.
Speaker 2I don't want to go into or even in the back of my mind say this shit ain't gonna last.
Speaker 1Okay, this into or even in the back of my mind, say this shit ain't gonna last. Okay, this is. So is this?
Speaker 2a. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1So this is a so is this a therapy? Is this a therapy for black girls moment? Is that what's what's?
Speaker 2well, yeah, I think it's it's. It's certainly something that I'm gonna bring up to my my black therapist. Yeah, but um, I had to answer the question yeah, so that is a belief. I chose to let go of that happily ever after.
Speaker 1Belief is no longer part of my world wow, okay, I think this is a place of real discovery for you, you know so what? Yeah, that you can, that you can say that very clearly, because that's when you can start looking at that right well, that's true.
Speaker 2Well, you know how I talk about christmas, right? I'm like, ah, christmas, you know. And it's the same thing. When I have people say they're getting married, I'm like, okay, we should talk, but if you know, like I know, oh my goodness, you know. But I'm not bitter I'm just, I guess still hurt, you know still reeling a little bit from a long-term marriage and divorce and all of that Right right, All reasonable.
Speaker 1Maybe the skin marks that are still you know I'm still living through those burn.
Speaker 2Could be, could be those burn. But what do you think about that? Happily ever after. Well, here's the thing At 63, I don't know how long my ever after is, so it could happen for me. It could be, you know, that could work for me right, but if I were 23 or 33, I don't know well, I think I mean because, think about, I was in a long, I was in a long-term relationship.
Speaker 1Yeah, I know, even before you were married, you were in a relationship.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1Yeah, I at this point and I'm 62, yes, still younger than you I do believe it's possible. I believe it's possible in the relationship that I'm in.
Speaker 1I believe it's possible I believe it's possible, in the relationship that I'm in and I would go beyond that and say that that is the relationship that I'm going to have of what I didn't have for so long, and because I'm really clear now about what I need, what I want, what I'm not going to give up, what I'm going to say and not say what I'm going to figure out.
Speaker 1You know the way I'm going to speak to my partner, the way that I expect to hear back, all of those things I'm so clear about now, you know, addressing my ego, finding language to talk to myself, know what my judge says to me. My judge Judy, when, when she's showing up, and my judge Judy, when, when she's showing up, and um, and I have skills that I that I expect that I'll put into practice now skills that I never had before.
Speaker 2It's a two-way street, though in what way? You can come with your whole evolved self yes but you also have to have a partner that can match that and is willing and able. Not just willing, because you know, as my partner, yes. But we didn't. We weren't able to meet in a way that worked for both of us.
Speaker 1I'll say it that way yeah Well, so I'll finish my thought about my thing and then I'll make a quick comment on you. So one thing is that I'm able now to choose the partner, to recognize the partner that will be willing to match me, Not being the same as me, but being able to having parity in these things. Having done their work.
Speaker 2I get it. So they become the shiny penny that you look at and you're like you over there, not just hey eeny meeny miny moe yeah.
Speaker 1So your choices are more informed. Oh my gosh, night and day, wow. Night and day, night and day Like it, and day, night and day Like it's, so Wow.
Speaker 1Wow, you're very clear about that I could have this and you know it's fairly new, but I'm also 62 and there are things that you know the years that you have left versus the years that you've already lived. You, you, you commit in different ways and you, you move in different or you can. And I got to say this I've done my work, I'm still doing my work, but I'm going to, I'm going to say with without um, with with uh, um, self-compassion and with humility, but also asserting that I've done a lot of work on myself and how I see the world and so on, and I'm reaping the fruits of that, by the grace of God. Do you know what I?
Speaker 2mean, I got a question for you, yeah.
Speaker 1Can you do my work for me?
Speaker 2You know I would, if I could babe. Can you do my work? Pal, I just need a favor, can you do my work? Oh, I'll pay. Oh my gosh, uh no, and yeah, yeah. So were you gonna say anything more about that?
Speaker 1because then, well, I was just gonna say that you, you, you are too, you, um, you know you're doing your work too. I think you know these recognitions, that you have the intensity of the things, that you feel those are areas of exploration for you. Now, right, and you're facing those things and you're calling them out. I think that's a really healthy place that you're in for now, saying, ok, why do I feel this way? When do I feel this way? You know all of those, that's the work can happen and you're ready and I'm so excited about that. It's what I've been praying for. One of the things that I pray consistently for you is for you to reach this point, so I'm excited.
Speaker 2That wasn't so painful.
Speaker 1Okay, you survived.
Speaker 2All right Sitting here talking about Santa Claus.
Speaker 1You're still able to smile.
Speaker 2You don't feel wounded?
Episode Closing
Speaker 1I hope no. That was a good one. Thank you, les. Thanks for coming up with this idea. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2All right. Well, thank you for listening, folks, and I would love for you to leave comments and don't forget to press like and subscribe, and thanks for listening. This has been another episode of Black Boomer. Besties from Brooklyn, brooklyn.
