Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
This is what the world needs now: two free-thinking “seasoned” Black women speaking their truth and inspiring others to do the same. Shaped by 45 years of friendship that began at the prestigious Brooklyn Technical High School through the Ivy League, medical school, marriages, divorces, triumphs, parenting queer children, life-threatening illness and many many amazing adventures. Each week, besties Leslie Osei-Tutu and Angella Fraser will push against boundaries in love, culture, careers, faith, politics and out-dated assumptions about women of a certain age. Remember, you’re never too old to change your mind…or your hair! (but more on that later :-)All views are our own and do not reflect the views of our institution/company. Information provided is not intended to serve as medical advice.
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
10 surprising discoveries from our first trip to Panama
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The Besties share their most surprising discoveries from their recent first trip to Panama. They reveal unexpected aspects of Panamanian life that weren't evident from their research before visiting, some are:
• Panama's modern, clean subway
• Spanish language proficiency is more essential than expected, especially outside tourist areas
• The extent of Panama City's skyline
• The Albrook Mall is massive and bustling, unlike many declining American shopping centers
• Strong Caribbean cultural influence evident in food, accents, and customs
• Diverse population with Spanish, indigenous, and Afro-Caribbean representation
• Extensive road and transportation infrastructure development underway
• Safe tap water in Panama City, unlike many other Latin American destinations
Stay tuned: they’re definitely going back to Panama soon to continue their exploration.
References in this episode:
Afro-Antillean Museum of Panama (Museo Afro-Antillano de Panama)
Get Angie’s eBook:
We’re Too Old for This Shit! The Inquisitive Older Woman’s Guide to Joy http://joystrategy.co/ebook
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Episode Introduction
Speaker 1Hey Ang hey, les what's cooking. Good looking Well.
Speaker 2Well, quite a bit how much time you got. No, I'm good.
Speaker 1I'm good, we're going to be talking about something very interesting, so I'm excited about that. I'm happy about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll bring him in.
Speaker 2Who are we? Who are we? Who are we? Well, welcome to another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
Speaker 1I'm Angela, that's Leslie, my best friend of almost 50 years. We are two 60-something-year-old women who have decided to commit to being more bold and more joyful, and we invite you to come along with us. Today, we're going to be talking a little bit about this amazing trip that we had in Panama.
Panama's Surprising Modern Subway System
Speaker 2Leslie and I were there some weeks ago Hasn't been that long and we wanted to share with you the most surprising things that we experienced in Panama, things we just did not expect in the country of Panama. So you all know that we've been talking about Panama for a while. We finally got there, which was great and amazing Amazing and we've done our own bit of research on Panama. Before we even went there, we started looking at videos. We joined some groups that talked about Panama and expats in Panama. So we had a pretty decent, comfortable feel of what we were going to encounter when we got there. Yet, and still there were some surprises. So, ange was like what were some of the surprises that you had when you came to Panama? So I have a few.
Speaker 2I don't know that you've heard all of them, but what was your? I mean, I know this is silly, I mean we don't have to categorize it, but what was the most surprising thing? We'll just say that what was your most surprising thing about Panama? Which?
Speaker 1is a subway, there's underground and above ground, wow, um. But because it was clean, it was it, it was, um, modern, and it was only 35 cents. You pay two dollars to get the card and there are people there to help you. There, you, there are people who work at the station. You pay $2 to get the card and then you put money on the card and so it's $0.35 to ride the whole day on the card. Well, I mean, you could stay on, is what I'm saying. Once you get off and come back in, it's another $0.35. You could stay on, is what I'm saying. Once you get off and come back in, it's another 35 cents.
Speaker 1But my sister and I, at the station manager's suggestion, we rode it to the end. You did, yes, on the elevated side and, oh my gosh, we talked to people. There was a young man on it what? Who had a T-square, and my sister we both are learning Spanish. There was a young man on it who had a T-square and my sister we both are learning Spanish. But she asked him oh, are you studying architecture? And he said, yes, he only spoke Spanish. And so we cobbled together enough words to speak with him and clean. And it was just a shock, because what does it take to have people decide to have a clean subway system? We didn't see anyone cleaning it, and not only the trains were clean, the stations were clean and the tracks were clean like wow, have you seen the new?
Speaker 2so that's hey hey, hey hey, I'm just saying Too soon. I'm just saying Too soon, we haven't been away long enough yet. Too soon.
Speaker 1So that was a big shock to me.
Speaker 2It was a pleasant surprise, and I think you did kind of squeal about that the loudest.
Speaker 1So I think so.
Spanish Proficiency: More Necessary Than Expected
Speaker 2I have two things that were very surprising. Equally, equally surprising, I'll say. My most surprising thing is you need to know how to speak Spanish in Panama.
Speaker 1It does help. I don't think you need to know Listen.
Speaker 2Okay you go. I thought that you can kind of get by, that it's helpful but not mandatory, depending on where you want to be and where you want to roam.
Speaker 1Yes.
Speaker 2In the stores in Panama City and in the very tourist areas and stuff there's many Spanish speaking people, but I don't know, English speaking people, but that's not where we're going to live. You know, obviously we're going to be around there and all. But when you leave the city, and even in some outskirts or some parts of the city, it really helps to have a proficiency in Spanish. And I would say that I understand a lot more than I speak. But even I was struggling, a little bit more than I thought I would be.
Speaker 2You know I thought I had a little more fluency than I did, and especially because we spent time in the other areas. Right, yeah, I would say that was the most surprising thing.
Speaker 1Yeah, keep learning Spanish yeah, most people that you hear on YouTube say that you can get away with not knowing Spanish and even though, as you said, in Panama City, you can, um, you can get away with not knowing what Spanish but it's not comfortable.
Speaker 2Exactly, and it depends on how you want to interact with the people.
Speaker 1I don't want to be this gringo outsider. Yeah, blingo, you mean.
Speaker 2Well, I don't, you know, that term is new to me. I don't want to be a blingo, black, gringo Outsider in Panama. I want to be part of the community and I think if I learned Spanish that would facilitate that a little bit more. Very clearly, I'm a tourist and I'm American and all of that. So I'll never be able to shed that, nor would I want to. But I think that because we're not going to stay in those tourist areas, you know we'll live in the city, likely or near the city, but I want to be able to explore. So I think that I'll have a little better time of it Keeping up with my Spanish.
Speaker 1I agree, I agree. So I think that was my number one.
Speaker 2The other one that's almost up there with it is that it's not my turn.
Speaker 1No, we're not going. Like you got, you got. No, we're not doing that. We're not being fair. Is that what you're saying? We're not being fair.
Speaker 2Okay, the other thing. All right, you're scratching to go, so go ahead. Ange, you know here's the competition in me, because you're going to say what's on near the top of my list.
Massive Malls and Miami-like Skylines
Speaker 1But no, no, no, no, no, no competition, no competition. Another thing that was surprising we went to a mall, the Albrook Mall. It was so freaking huge we spent most of our time finding each other. Um, it was, it's huge, like I've never been to mall of america, or, but I'm just saying it was massive, wow. And I think because maybe places like Amazon and so on are not, you know, kind of heavily used there, from what I could see, it's still malls are still the places where people go to shop and to socialize and so on. So it was great. It wasn't an empty kind of deserted place at all. They had good food in the food marts, but it was massive, massive.
Speaker 2Okay, that's my number two. Was it an uncomfortable, massive or tolerable, just like oh wow?
Speaker 1Well, if you're a shopper like you, it's amazing, it's like whoa oh my. God, oh my God, oh my God. But I was trying to find someone.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, yeah, but the duty-free shopping that we did in Cologne that was overwhelming to me.
Speaker 1That was a lot.
Speaker 2That was overwhelming. It's an outdoor. It turned into a horror movie. It's like you're walking and walking and by this time you have bags in the stores and this and that.
Speaker 1But the prices are great. Yeah, yeah, the prices were great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, For some things gold is high everywhere. It's not cheaper. Oh, maybe that would be my next thing.
Speaker 2Oh, are you jumping in front of me? Okay, so the next, the thing that I was next most surprised panama city looks like miami, with the skyscrapers it does, and the modern skyscrapers I mean it was like glass and shaped and there's a sphere, shaped one, and there's hexagonal, and it's like look like, exactly, you took it and then you turned it. It was yeah, that it was like the skyline is awesome. It really looked like my remind me of like Miami, or so.
Speaker 1It was very extensive. I thought it was going to be just in one area. Yes, but even coming from the airport there's so many skyscrapers and it extends for a good portion of the Pacific side of the country.
Speaker 2Yeah, that was pretty surprising.
Speaker 1All right, so I'm going to finish up on the gold one. Okay, I was surprised at how, because everyone says, oh, you got to go get gold in Panama.
Speaker 2Gold is really inexpensive?
Speaker 1No, not anymore. Yeah Well, I heard that gold is going up.
Speaker 2The price of gold is really-. And that's what we saw.
Caribbean Influence and Cultural Diversity
Speaker 1And that's what we saw. And that's what we saw. So watch the gold numbers. But right now it's high. I don't know what it is compared to other places, but it was much more expensive than. I expected, and we went to 10-carat, 14-carat, 18-carat places. And it was pretty consistently high. Anyway, okay, your turn.
Speaker 2You don't need to convert US dollars.
Speaker 1Oh, you didn't know that.
Speaker 2I heard, but I was certainly prepared to exchange change into Balboas Right right, and you didn't have to at all.
Speaker 1Yes, not at all.
Speaker 2It's a one-to-one. That was really surprising to me. Yes, in fact, I had heard that and I'm like that doesn't make sense. It's got to. Why, come on? Why are they using US dollars and stuff? They're using US dollars.
Speaker 1They're using US dollars. The only place you'll see the Balboa is in some coins that are circulating, but you also see quarters and nickels and so on.
Speaker 2Right, yes, I came home with some coins.
Speaker 1As we say, paper money.
Speaker 2Yes.
Speaker 1It's only US dollars. That's crazy, that's true, that was surprising. I know my turn.
Speaker 2Go. No, I'm kidding, you are two years old.
Speaker 1I know I can't my turn Go. No, I'm kidding you are two years old. I know You're two years old. I was surprised by the magnitude of Caribbean or, as they say, antillean influence in Panama City. I would have expected it in Cologne, because that is on the Caribbean side, because that is on the Caribbean side and, by the way, if you get a chance, in Panama City there is a museum of Afro-Antillian museum, which is incredible, incredible it's small.
Speaker 2Where is it?
Speaker 1It's intimate. It's in Panama City, I think it's in El Cangrejo or close to it, because it wasn't far from the hotel. We took an Uber, but it was less than $4 or something like that food. What was interesting is when I heard some English speakers, some English speaking Panamanians they had Caribbean accents. It was either Jamaican or Barbadian accents.
Speaker 1That's interesting, yeah it was so interesting and this guy at the hotel that one of the hotels that I stayed at he was saying something to me and as he walked by he was, as he walked away he was saying goodbye or something. I was like wait a minute, that's not like a Jamaican. So I called him over and he said, yes, his grandmother was Jamaican. And he said they had the rule to speak English inside and Spanish outside.
Speaker 2So they have that advantage of having English almost as their first language.
Speaker 1Yes, and they learn Spanish in school, so they are completely bilingual, which is a benefit now you know what I mean and especially in tourist areas where you want people to speak English. So that was a really pleasant surprise. Yeah, and I had some of the best, best oxtail I've had for a very long time and it wasn't $30 for the plate of oxtail, it was. It was delicious, yes.
Speaker 2Okay, can.
Speaker 1I give a shout out. I'm going to give a shout out to Daiquiri 23. That's where I got the oxtail. It was so, so good. It's actually owned by an American man, black guy who owns it, but I guess he's got some Jamaican or Jamaican descended people who are in the kitchen, because the food was really on point and the oxtail was was top notch. Check it out.
Easy Travel and Modern Infrastructure
Speaker 2Okay, okay, all right, your turn. I was pleasantly surprised how easy it was to get into the country through customs. Ah yeah, it was really incredible. I guess I should have anticipated it, because they want. You know, americans have a good reputation in Panama, so you know. But we really just walked through. They didn't ask very many questions, although they did tell my partner you're on the wrong line, you need to be on the panamanian side.
Speaker 1he's like I'm here with her, okay yeah, it was really straightforward, it was very easy.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah and again just likewise, getting out of the country was very easy as well let me tell you, compared to when you're going to jamaica, panama was a breeze.
Speaker 1I'm just saying, I'm just saying listen I'm a jamaican I'm telling you the truth panama was a breeze. There they just seemed to be really efficient and um there, you know, there, there weren't a lot of um unnecessary or um, just just lines. They had enough lines to accommodate the people.
Speaker 2I don't feel like they were lacking in security. Exactly that's what.
Speaker 1I mean, they didn't cut any corners, they just were really efficient at how they did what they did. Yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1All right, you got another one.
Speaker 2I think I have one more. This one is really. It's making me feel good. There was so much road and transportation construction. They are waiting for us. They are getting ready for company.
Speaker 1Yes, yeah, they are getting ready for company.
Speaker 2Yes, yeah, the streets and the new roads going out of Panama City were, oh my gosh, the rotaries, and they really and and re-extending of the metro.
Speaker 2And extending of the thing he said that these roads are all new because there's so much new traffic. These roads are all new because there's so much new traffic. They're anticipating people coming and wanting to live further and further out from the city and they are ready, they're getting ready for me Hallelujah. I know, I know it was really. I was surprised to see how modern the streets were and the you know just getting around, how easy it was. I don't see myself driving in Panama anytime soon, though. That was ooh.
Speaker 1That was a little rough.
Speaker 2It was like people just get in anywhere, like what, but I'm here, but I'm here Wait.
Speaker 1But they are on the right side of the road.
Speaker 2Ah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1Yeah, so that would not and that helped me for when I'm crossing the street.
Speaker 2I knew which way to look.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's true. So my feet didn't get clipped. The last one I have is the variety of food I have food on my list also Every part of the world. Food from every part of the world, Different price ranges.
Food Diversity and Final Thoughts
Speaker 1I mean you may be surprised at how expensive some of the food options are, but you can also get food from Fundus for $5 for a big plate of food. So it depends on where you go, but you can. There's food from Peru. There was this Caribbean sushi place. There's food from the Middle East, from the Caribbean, of course, panamanian food. It's just like a. It's a metropolitan city.
Speaker 2It's a very diverse foodie, I would call it a foodie city.
Speaker 1You know what I mean.
Speaker 2Yeah, we have plenty of options. That's right. You know plenty of options.
Speaker 1So we're going to be going back.
Speaker 2Yeah, we're definitely going back. And there's food too, definitely. Did anybody say food? No, I'm not sure how to phrase this, but I was surprised at how diverse the Panamanian population is. Ah, okay, population is In terms of their coloring.
Speaker 2Some have very obvious Spanish influence very fair skin and very straight hair, and then there are others that are very brown and dark, with more curly hair. It seems to be a very diverse, yes, indigenous in their, you know, wearing with more curly hair. It seems to be a very diverse, yes, indigenous in there, you know, wearing their traditional outfits or beaded more of like an Indian type.
Speaker 2I was really just surprised at how different the natives were. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that goes to show it's in Central America, it's close to South America, it's still Latin America. I didn't get a sense of that diversity from the Panamanians I know here in the States.
Speaker 1Right and compared to Costa Rica? How did you feel about diversity?
Speaker 2The people were a little more homogeneous there. For sure, yeah, for sure yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1Um, I felt like there's one more that I oh. One more that I wanted to add is that drank the water, no problem oh yes we got bottled water, but we also had tap water in restaurants, Right, no problem whatsoever. This again is Panama City. I don't know how it would be with different water systems in other parts of the country, but this is my experience in Panama City.
Speaker 2That's true, that's true, all right, yeah, very good, les, wow Okay.
Speaker 1That's it, that's all. That's true, all right, yeah, very good, les Wow.
Speaker 2Okay, that's it. That's all we got guys, all right. So you wait till we go back. We're going to come back, we're going to be a little browner, we're going to be more. Habla mas espanol. Ooh, and all the things All the things, all the things. Yeah, we'll tell you all about it. All right, see you next time. All right, this has been another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
