Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
Ep143 Joy Over Fear: Conquering Money Shame
Michelle Malawer is a money coach for women. She joins The Besties to explore how unresolved financial issues may create barriers to joy and fulfillment in our lives.
She explains that money struggles affect people at all income levels. Her coaching focuses on understanding the stories and mindsets behind money behaviors, not just numerical solutions. Michelle recognizes that financial shame often prevents us from seeking help or having honest conversations about money so she provides a safe space to delve deeper into her clients ideas about money and financial management.
Michelle offers various coaching options including three and six-month packages, money deep dives, and a free money book club for women
Connect with Michelle Malawer on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michellemalawer/
Chapter Markers:
0:00
Meet the Black Boomer Besties
1:29
Introducing Money Coach Michelle Malawer
5:15
Angela's Financial Journey Begins
11:14
The Money Mindset Beyond Math
19:25
Breaking Through Money Shame
28:04
From Debt to Freedom
38:17
Transforming Your Relationship with Money
40:17
Connect with Michelle and resources
Book a free coaching consultation with Angie here:
https://calendly.com/rhythmwigs/more-joy-complimentary-consultation
Want behind the scenes content, Join us on Patreon at $5 or $10 level:
https://patreon.com/user?u=83534204
Get Angie’s eBook:
We’re Too Old for This! The Inquisitive Older Woman’s Guide to Joy http://joystrategy.co/ebook
Visit our website www.blackboomerbesties.com
IG: https://www.instagram.com/blackboomerbestiesfrombrooklyn
Visit Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn website for behind-the-scenes extras.
Hey Ange, hey Les, How's it going? It is going well.
Speaker 2:Good Good.
Speaker 1:Today is a day Not only is it a day, but we're bringing you guys something special because we are starting a series. But you want to tell them, or I should tell them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll tell them. I'll tell them. Can you introduce us, who are we? Can you introduce us to the people? They know who we are.
Speaker 1:I mean, come on, look at these glasses, look at that, look at that spaceship ear microphones that they're used to. They know we are the Welcome to the Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
Speaker 2:I'm Angela and that's Leslie, my best friend of almost 50 years. We're two 60-something free-thinking women and we have decided to live lives with more boldness and with more joy, and we invite you to come along with us. Today we're going to be doing. This will be the first of a mini-series where we are looking at what is interfering with our joy, what has interfered with our joy, and this week we're going to be talking about finances, which is something that interferes with my joy all the time. So we have brought Michelle Malauer.
Speaker 2:You guys have heard me talk about my money coach, money coach, money coach, money coach, money coach. This is she. This is she, and Michelle is you know. When I talk about money coach, you know you can have a coach that teaches you how to make money. Some people call those a business coach. You can have a coach that teaches you how to manage the money that you have, not a financial planner. We're talking about managing your money. And Michelle oh, she was recommended by someone. I'm going to pause there a moment because, listen, y'all need to get in community with people who are going to support your dreams. That's true. I met Michelle through a community, the Exodus Summit community. There was someone there named Maya who introduced me to Michelle, told me a little bit about what she does, and it was at a time when I was ready to do the work the hard, mentally taxing work of getting my money together, and Michelle was the perfect person for me. So, because we like to share joy here on this podcast, we're bringing her to you.
Speaker 1:I'm going to introduce Michelle Malauer, and what Ange is saying is real. Ange has conquered, actually, a struggle I would almost call it a stronghold that she has had for decades. And when we say that she has a money coach, we're not talking about those of us who don't necessarily have enough money, about how to make more or whatever. It's more about a mindset which you're going to learn in a minute. So, michelle Malewa, she's a money coach who helps high-earning women feel like adults with their money, build self-trust and unleash their imagination to live their best, well-funded lives. She believes that women wielding power with money will change the world.
Speaker 1:Her tagline money confidence for women who mean business. Instead of telling clients what to do, she digs deep to help them use their money in a way that feels right to them their money in a way that feels right to them. With clients ranging from ages 30 to 70, michelle has helped women launch a side business, ask for their fair share in a divorce settlement and feel more is possible from life. Her clients consistently report feeling relief, feeling inspired and gaining extra mental bandwidth to focus on what matters most. And there's more, but I'm going to bring to you this lovely lady and our guest, michelle Malawa.
Speaker 3:Welcome. Thank you so much, Leslie. Thank you, Angela. It's great to be here.
Speaker 2:It's great to have you, as is pretty common, on our podcast. You all know that we speak truth and we sometimes get into very vulnerable personal topics. And I'm prepared to do that with this conversation because, as Michelle's bio laid out, regardless of our education, regardless of our experiences, you know we're parents, we have these roles of leadership in our church, at our jobs, in community. You could still struggle when it comes to things having to do with money, and I will be sharing some personal examples of what Michelle helped me to move through, what Michelle helped me to to move through.
Speaker 2:And you know when, when Desley and I talk about joy, we really want you to understand that joy isn't the happy place. Joy is the doing what it takes to have sustained, sustained fulfillment in your life. And I was lacking that because there were some pretty big financial things that I was not facing and sometimes, when we have money, that becomes the crutch for us. Not facing money issues right, Because it kind of protects. So, Michelle, if you can kind of talk about, you know the types of clients that you see and some of the things that really interfere that you help people to break through.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've. I started coaching last year the beginning of 2024, and I've had an array of clients. So, for example, I've had clients who make only $40,000 and are also $40,000 in debt. I've had clients who make $100,000 and have $80,000 in debt and their friends don't know about it the 80k in debt and their friends don't know about it. And they only discovered me because a friend was like would you like to speak to a money coach, having no idea what they've been through?
Speaker 3:Um, and then also, on the other side, I've worked with women who have a lot of money. You know, I've worked with someone from a financial company. She has a few million and her financial advisor said to her hey, you need to get comfortable spending money, spend $20,000. No matter what happens to the market, you're fine, spend this $20,000. So with her, we started to design what would be meaningful for her to spend it, because she's not very materialistic, so it's not like she wanted to go get a Gucci purse or something like that. So it was more curating experiences that were meaningful to her, like, does she want to throw a 90th party for her parents? Does she want to take them on a trip to Mexico for a family reunion that would create an experience, that would create memories.
Speaker 3:And then also, you mentioned the woman going through a divorce. I helped her. She came to me. Unfortunately, women in society were conditioned to not ask for a lot, were conditioned not to want a lot, and she felt bad asking for 50% of the marital assets even though she spent 30 years running the home raising the kid doing we calculated the value of her invisible labor. We calculated the value of her invisible labor. It was $4 million, calculating if they had hired a chauffeur, if her husband didn't really have a lot of friends. So she was essentially his therapist. So I've run the gamut, but I would say what I love most is the unleashing of the imagination.
Speaker 2:Wow Okay.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:So let me tell you how that was unleashed for me. So you all know that I'm making plans to move abroad. It's a big, audacious goal and that's how I move in the world. I move with big, audacious goals. They command me forward, they are spirit led. They become a, not a kind of should I do it. They become a leading yeah, this is what you're going to do, and, at the end of the day, these types of things take money, not only money to do them, but money and debt become these albatrosses, these anchors that hold you in place.
Speaker 2:And sometimes you do want to do these exciting things, and what's stopping you is not the desire to do them. What's stopping you is how can I do them when I have this money on my back, this debt on my back, this not knowing if I have enough. This, you know, and I think one of the things I shared with Michelle is it was starting to make me feel like what kind of adulting, what kind of adult are you when you can't take care of things like this? Right, you keep kicking the can down the you know, down the lane and not facing it.
Speaker 2:But because my joy was leading me to move abroad and I did not. I do not want to take a lot of debt with me when I move abroad. When Maya brought Michelle and her services to my attention. It was like got it.
Speaker 2:This is what I need to get out of the way so that I could more joyfully move abroad. And so it's real stuff right. For me it was a big school loan, it was getting my taxes done, and you know we can talk about why those things were in the way, but it's really that they were in the way, Right, and Michelle's work, I think probably, Michelle. It was like to get hard, but there was something that was compelling me forward, and so you have to do the hard stuff to get to that place.
Speaker 3:Yes, and Angela, I just want to say about that and Angela, I just want to say about that. What I really love about the work that I do is a lot of people have a vision and then they have their day-to-day life and it's how do you marry the two, how do you bridge it? And some people only live in the vision. Some people only live in the day-to-day. But it's going through the day-to-day slog, the actions, action after action, while holding the vision. So it's important to marry both aspects.
Speaker 2:Right, right, Absolutely. And I got to tell you one second. Let me just say Michelle held my feet to the fire, right? She so challenged me to. You know the things, when you say it to yourself or when you meditate or pray about it, you have this way of framing it and Michelle was constantly asking me why, and it was really challenging. Like I'm like what do you mean? What do you mean? Why isn't it obvious? Isn't it obvious that those types of feelings that you get, Isn't it obvious, Of course, and she pushed me through some really difficult, like I've never been challenged on this before, Michelle. What do you think you are? What do you mean? I'm so glad she did that for you.
Speaker 1:Because you do that to me too. Oh okay, so good, Whatever.
Speaker 2:It doesn't matter whether you have it or not. This is not about gaining money or whether you you kind of feel like, like you have enough, you can. You can have all the money that you want to have right and still have these barriers right.
Speaker 2:Or if, if you, if you don't even think about them as barriers, if you think about them cause. One of my issues was money is there to be spent for my family. If my family needs something, I'm going to get it for them. I didn't have an issue with overspending on clothes or bags or that type of thing. My thing was if there was someone in need and I had it, I'm giving it right, and that resulted in me not tracking. I would make fun of Leslie, right?
Speaker 3:Yes, you did.
Speaker 2:When Leslie had her hoopty. When Leslie had her hoopty, we've talked about her powder blue Honda that she used to drive.
Speaker 1:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker 2:Right With the crate in the back that was holding up the seat.
Speaker 1:The seat didn't work. There was no grill Right. I parked it in a garage one time and went to give the guy a tip and he gave the tip back.
Speaker 2:So the point is but she was always the same person. So the point is but, but she was always the same person. She managed her money at that point in her life in the same way that she manages it now. Yeah, and so this has nothing to do with how much money you have or don't have. This hat has to do with a block. And if one other person says to me, it's just math, I know math, I'm a math person, I'm an engineer, I know math, I'm a math person, I'm an engineer, I know math. This is not about addition and subtraction and tracking. It's about what are the stories around money that you have that's what Michelle helped me to face and look at how are they interfering with what you want in your future.
Speaker 1:So, michelle, I have a question Wait.
Speaker 2:I have a question so you.
Speaker 1:this is so good, michelle. You've worked in the financial industry. You've worked at E-Trade, morgan Stanley, finra, pimco, so you have that money numbers background. How did you know that this was more than just knowing numbers that you really had to get into the head of your clients?
Speaker 3:That's a great question. I think it's very similar to food and diets. We know we need to eat less, we know we should eat less ice cream, and I'm still getting the Uber Eats of Ben and Jerry's to my apartment, I know. So there's a big block, that's a great analogy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I realized, you know, my father tried to help me budget a little bit and he would tell me that I'm terrible with money and it never helped. And so I realized there's really a need for a deep dive and really understanding someone and understanding their motivations and what's driving them to do something. I'll just give you an example. Angela, you mentioned overgiving to family. I think many women overgive. So I would never tell a client you know, stop giving this amount of money to your grown child. But I might say who are you if you are not subsidizing your child's rent? What does paying your child's rent give you? What does it do for you? So through the questions, they see, oh, they have this identity as being the supporter. It's actually hurting the child because the child is not going through phases of development that they should go through. But they just never saw that because they never had the questions that I was asking them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, those wretched questions.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I really put me through the wringer.
Speaker 2:She put me through it and I'm so glad that you did. I'm so glad I'm a different person.
Speaker 1:I have to tell you, I'm a different person. You've always been brave in that way, you, you, you know I'm a little less brave. Well, in many ways, in that I don't, I kind of run away from things and I don't face things until I have to very often, but I love the way that you just like dig in and that's really proud of you in that way.
Speaker 3:She did an amazing job. I just want to brag for her. Every session she worked so hard. She did all the actions. She contacted whatever entity she had to contact. She did what she had to do and at one point she was like there's no going back because she saw it needed to do whatever. Phone numbers, things like that.
Speaker 1:That's crazy.
Speaker 2:A real coach. Oh, let me tell you. Let me tell you, and you better have that done before you come back, like she didn't yell at me or anything like that, but you just knew that if you just did what she said, Right and then when you start seeing the results, if you make phone, calls and they go your way.
Speaker 1:Exactly. I used to tell a friend of mine, like stop running away from the IRS. Listen, I have gotten on so many payment plans with them. They are fine people to talk to.
Speaker 3:They're really nice, they work with you. They're really nice, they work with you.
Speaker 1:And this person would run away. I'm not calling them, don't muddy the waters and don't and it was like stop it. You got to stop running from these people.
Speaker 2:You can't hide you know, yeah, but. I think, for some of us, I'm going to say, les, that, for people who are worried more like me, going to say, les, that for people who are wired more like me, who, it's just like Michelle gave the analogy about the ice cream right. You can tell people that if you want to lose weight, you have to stop eating ice cream, but at some point it's like they know that they are a size. They're a bigger size than they want to be.
Speaker 1:That's not what's helping.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's why you need a coach and I see that in medicine too.
Speaker 1:It's like why am I telling people to you know you need to quit smoking. You know you need to eat less. You know I, who has always struggled with weight, Don't tell me exactly that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and that's the part that Michelle just held my hand. I knew that she really saw me because she allowed me to push back Right. There were times when we would have what they call a very robust dialogue, and a part of it is that I felt that it was important for me to tell Michelle what I didn't want also right. One of the things that I didn't want is I didn't want to make money, just to make money, right, I just don't. That is not where I am in my life right now. Where I am in my life right now and this is something that Michelle's working with Michelle helped me to do is to see how much money do I need to make to live the way I want to live, and I'm good and I'm good.
Speaker 1:So the fight to make more, more, more, more. You didn't have that, I didn't have that, but I had to.
Speaker 2:she had to create space for me to be able to say that, because a part of what gets in the way is oh, you're supposed to have ambition, you're supposed to want more, you can make more, so why don't you?
Speaker 3:And those types of things.
Speaker 2:And that's not where I am anymore. Right, I did all of that stuff, all of that hustle, all of that. I have lived that life and in this phase I no longer wanted that, and so what I hope you guys are hearing is you know, this type of coaching becomes this really intimate and also it's kind of like an easing forward out of a rut that I was in around these things that was that were really in the way of the joy that I wanted to have, and I know, Michelle, that that a part of your story is you having been in a position where debt was, was a oh boy.
Speaker 2:Was a.
Speaker 3:Oh boy, it was terrible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, share that with us if you don't mind.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So in my 20s I got my first credit card when I was about 20-ish, before I went abroad to Paris during college. And there's just something about credit cards. I always ran them up to the limit and then I paid them down a little bit, got to the top, paid it all off. They would extend my credit and it was just.
Speaker 3:It was a terrible cycle, you know. There were points where I only had $5 to the limit and I couldn't get a latte because a latte costs $6. And I was a severe, severe under earner. I had no belief in my earning capacity All my life. My father had provided for me and he's like the head of the household, so I had absorbed the notion. You know, I get money from him, I can't provide for myself.
Speaker 3:So it was really bad for many years and I got to the point where I was reading a book. They suggested going to a certain debt recovery program. I worked that program for 10 years. Every Saturday I went to a meeting and it turned my life around. And so now you know I track my numbers. I have different categories. I was able to to pay for in cash a three-day stay at a resort for my five-year anniversary with my partner. But life, life is so small when you're, when you're burdened with debt and you feel choked. You feel there's no way out. And that's actually why I prefer working now with people with lesser debt or who don't feel as choked, because it's very hard to make that transition from suffocation to imagination Very difficult. Wow, it can be done, obviously, but it's a lot of work and a lot of people aren't ready to do it. Wow, mm, hmm, mm, hmm.
Speaker 2:I I think it's fascinating that your personal experience so moved you that you want to help people to avoid or to get out of that situation. That you were, that you were in right, that you um, it's it, it it has become your, in a sense, your life's work in your business to help women out of situations. You could have just gotten happy and just run off with your no dead self.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, but it's. It's because I know the sense of powerlessness and I felt powerless since a young child, as a girl. It's very easy to feel powerless as a woman in this patriarchal society and I hate that feeling, and so my life's work is for me to become powerful, to help women step into their power. So I couldn't just leave it, because I know how terrible it is and I don't ever want anyone to feel that way.
Speaker 2:Right, it's amazing, I tell you.
Speaker 1:Let me just tell you a couple of things that are so poignant about your story Is that I just heard you say that you still employ some of the methods that got you out of the trouble, and you said I track it. I heard you use the word tracking and immediately I thought about weight loss and dieting and something that has been a lifelong issue and struggle for me, and I've had weight loss more recently over the last couple of years, but I used to lament that well, I've lost the weight, now I can relax and what I've realized is that weight control and healthy living it's a lifelong thing. It's not something that's one and done. And you, here you are with finances. You've conquered the beast Yet and still it's innate in you and it's part of your regular life practice and I really appreciate that, because what you realize, what I also heard you say, is that you've maxed out your cards, but then you've paid them off also, but that wasn't the end of your struggle.
Speaker 3:Right, right, and also Leslie. I would say it's a relationship. I have a relationship with my money and it requires daily and weekly care. I have a relationship with my partner. I'm working on my relationship with my food.
Speaker 1:I was just going to say me and food. Right now we're not speaking that well right now.
Speaker 3:I had a great experience. Actually, one of my first clients was a chef and weight loss coach, and so she coached me on eating and I coached her on money. Her name was Melanie and I'll tell you why it worked. Because she never told me I couldn't eat my ice cream. She knew if she told me I would be out and she worked with me.
Speaker 1:And Ange, that's just what you said. I love the fact that you and Michelle have been able to have a two-way dialogue. It's not just her telling you what to do, that's right. You're telling her what works for you that's right, and what best way to get through to you. And you've been transformed. I mean, I hear you say I need to look at my money, I'm going to have a date with my money, and these kind of language like what are you who? What did you do with my friend? Yeah, it's really something.
Speaker 2:It's, it's, it's, it's something, and you know it put me in such a position of feeling like I have control over things that I just felt powerless over. And that's probably the most significant takeaway is that sometimes it's a phone call that you have to make, and when you make it is the best time to make that call, right, even if you haven't done it in four years. Today is better than six years from now. Right, you make that phone call and you speak to that person. Right, you make that phone call and you speak to that person. I never thought that some of the contacts that Michelle gave me, I never thought someone would actually answer the phone.
Speaker 1:It's like it's a real person and they really want to help you, but that's what I was going to say. I've had experiences where I'm shocked that they're so nice, like they're not personally out to get me Right, like they're not mad at me. You know, people think about things like that.
Speaker 3:You know if you call a creditor.
Speaker 1:You think that they're angry with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're not angry with you, right.
Speaker 3:Right, right. And Angela, I just want to add to that I think what each action does is it builds on itself, and then, with each action, you are building your self-esteem, because self-esteem is built on action. So every time you make the phone call, every time you track your numbers, it's a vote for your identity as a financially a person who handles their finances well. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I have to use the word shame because it was such a dominant part of my own kind of sensitivity around this Right, and it got in the way of me talking about it. You know, I could talk to Leslie about it. Leslie is my bestie. There was still parts of this that Leslie doesn't know. You know, because you know, you, you carry this, this shame, and when Michelle talks about releasing mental capacity, that's some of what gets released. Wow, right, if you're kind of walking around, you know, you know that you have this thing that is in the way. And so when you talk, when you act like, oh, everything is great when you're dressed nicely and you, you know you can, and you know that there's a stuff that you're like oh, everything is great when you're dressed nicely and you know that there's this stuff that you're not dealing with. It creates a level of shame At least it did for me to be completely honest and you wanted to live a more honest life.
Speaker 2:I did. I'm coming on here talking about joy and I got to tell you when I talk about joy and I and I gotta tell you when I talk about joy compelling you to do things, joy compelled me to get the help I needed so I could do this. It was, it was a compelling. You are a lie if you're not taking care of this right and that never sit well with me.
Speaker 1:That doesn't say you can't sleep well, you can't look at yourself well in the mirror.
Speaker 3:Michelle.
Speaker 1:I have a question. You are so capable and comfortable with money management and financial management. How, with that level of confidence, how do you address a person that feels so much shame around it? You know there's definitely a feeling could be a feeling of a power differential. How do you convey that level of compassion when you speak to clients that come to you with so much shame and baggage?
Speaker 3:Leslie, you're saying a client might feel that I'm above them.
Speaker 1:Well sure, and certainly way more capable than they could ever be.
Speaker 3:That's interesting. I've never thought about it that way, but I would say because I really try to listen more than I talk. In general, I try to listen more and so I people feel heard. I try very hard not to interrupt and sometimes, especially towards the beginning, they just need to go on for 30 minutes about all the things that never happened to me?
Speaker 3:no, yeah, all the thing, and I know the things that never happened to me. No, all the things. And I know the things have to come out and I think about the shame, angela it's. People don't have a space to air this stuff out, so it gets. Who can you talk to? You can't talk to anyone.
Speaker 3:Yeah, if you don't have money, it's embarrassing. If you have money, you feel bad. You feel bad telling your friends who have less. So everyone needs a space where they can be fully honest about money and I I personally, and then jelly, you can tell me if this is incorrect or not but I feel like having the space to fully say the things. Have someone witness you and not run and not think you're the worst, cause you might be telling yourself you're the things. Have someone witness you and not run and not think you're the worst because you might be telling yourself you're the worst. But I just 20 minutes ago talked to another client who has more debt. So to me there's nothing to be shameful about. It's just like you know. And also I just want to say we live in America, which really promotes going into debt.
Speaker 1:So it's not even a personal thing. Yeah yeah, the system is designed to keep you in debt, from advertising credit cards to students in college. I just remember getting my first credit card when I was in college and I know I was not working at the time, you know. So I did not have any ability to pay it back, and you know, obviously I had been struggling for a number of years after that to speak and just giving you this, this, this, this space to be completely vulnerable, without judgment, right, this nonjudgmental space.
Speaker 2:One thing that I want to say about that is that you, that you, sometimes the thing that gets you to really commit to something is paying for it. And this just hear me out right sometimes, when we get things for free or nominal cost $59.99 or whatever it does not keep us committed. Oh, if it were that valuable, it would cost more. Or, you know, I don't care if I don't show up because it was free or it was just this, if I lose the $59, I don't care, I'm not going to show up.
Speaker 2:And even if you do care, but something else you gave something else a priority instead of coming to a session, right, and so a part of what was really helpful for me is that Michelle ain't free, she's not free, she's good, and a part of paying for it, it makes you commit to the transformation that you are putting yourself on the journey too right.
Speaker 2:You pay for the service it is. I have to tell you, as God is my witness, I could have paid 10 times the fee to get the relief that I got in working with.
Speaker 3:Michelle, I'm just going to be honest with you, oh like let's wow, that's powerful.
Speaker 2:It is, it is I know you, yeah, you, you know me and and you know that, um, you know when I, when I want to do something, I commit and it was Michelle did not have an easy time of it with me by saying that is that, um, it was hard for me to peel back, it was hard for me to peel back, um, but she has a way of um allowing me to to to do it in the way that I did it Right, and I feel like her services are so personalized, her way of of of seeing me. I talk sometimes on this podcast about people who are wired differently. Me and Michelle are wired very differently, as you know, know me and Leslie wired very differently, and so I could have said, oh, um, you know I'm frustrated. I'm not gonna do this anymore because I don't like the way that she's asking me questions, but I really and you know this about I was like, wait a minute, I'm paying her to ask me these types of questions, like I am literally in this to be challenged in this way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, If.
Speaker 2:I did it myself. I would be where I am. That's a brave move. And I was like I'm literally paying her to be just who she is for me.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:And she showed up and she did the damn thing and she showed me how to do the damn thing and, um, yeah, so very grateful, very grateful. Uh, michelle, how do people work with you? What's the best way for them to reach you?
Speaker 3:um, if you can share that and any other things about your, your services, that you want to tell our audience about, sure, they can reach me on linkedin uh, I believe my handle will be in the show notes, michelle mallor and just just message me on linkedin. Connect with me right now. That's the only platform that I use. I'll say that, angela, we did. I think the three-month coaching package I have three-month coaching packages, six months, six months is to really solidify whatever transformation you're seeking. I tend to notice that if someone does three months and they don't continue, they're still wobbly, so they'll backslide.
Speaker 3:For clients who already track their money and pretty much have things in order, I do a money deep dive for two hours where I take a look at your numbers. I see what you can be doing better. I hope you tell me your dreams. Maybe we can get there faster if we just move a few things around. And I also have a free money book club for women, which I absolutely love. You don't need to read the book. It's every other month or so, and what's great about that is one.
Speaker 2:You don't have to read the book.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I give a recap and an overview and then I lead a discussion in a way where you get excited about the book but you don't need to read it, and it's really for women who want a space to feel comfortable talking about money and to feel powerful with money. So it's a space where people go because they they can't have these conversations with their friends, unfortunately.
Speaker 1:We need more of that. We need more people talking about money. You know, money I mean in relationships it causes problems, especially when there's an income disparity. Especially when there's an income disparity there's when with friends, you know there's if. If you know, as a physician I make more than many people, so it's sometimes it's really hard and I have money issues too. But it's hard for me to talk about those issues to people who have less because I used to think, like many, it's like money is the solution to the problem. It is not. It is not. Yet once you have money, then you realize it. If you don't have it, then you think money is the. I always thought that having more money was the key. So I think if we could have non-judgmental conversations, just bring these conversations into our everyday I'm not getting paid what I'm worth and then change is made. But that all starts with a conversation and knowing how much your partner, your colleague, is making. Yeah, exactly, and we just don't do that.
Speaker 3:And also I'll say yes. And also we need spaces, containers, where there's an understanding of, yes, it's acceptable to talk, yes, you can name your salary, yes, you can name your debt, and the containers give the permission and kind of hold the conversation. Permission and kind of hold the conversation, because it could be you want to have an open conversation about money with a friend who is just not there yet, you know, and then it's not comfortable or good for either one of you, exactly, exactly and you know you don't, you don't want to put pressure on on someone.
Speaker 2:You know if this is kind of your issue, you know, get a coach get a shot.
Speaker 1:I love the fact that we frame this in a way that this is can unlock your path to a joyful life that you want to live. Yeah, and you'll see how this ties into the other episodes in this series about some of the things that are really keeping you from getting on that path Money and just talking about it, and the things that your barriers in terms of thinking about money is only one way, that one thing that can prevent you from living in a more joyful life.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So we thank you for being here, Michelle. I'm so happy to finally have met you, the guru who changed my bestie's life. It's been such a pleasure and is going to pull her closer to leaving me and moving abroad before me.
Speaker 2:You will never be rid of me. Never be rid of me. Michelle, thank you for all that you do. Thank you for being strong and for reaching back and helping those who are still in the struggle that you no longer have. That I no longer have. I mean, when I talk about the shame that is no longer there I can so openly talk about. Look, I'm on a podcast talking about my money. Yeah, that's crazy. What the hell? Who?
Speaker 1:knew yeah, amazing.
Speaker 2:What the hell. So I?
Speaker 1:love that you. Thank you so much angela. Thank you, leslie, it's been wonderful to be here and what I'll also say is my name also is michelle and we both spell it properly with two l's properly. I'll just say thank you again. And this has been another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn, brooklyn.
