Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn
Ep155 A Praise Report to celebrate with us
The Besties reflect on a morning of quiet prayer that turned into a cascade of miracles: a son spoke, moved, answered questions, and became eligible for a transfer to acute rehab.
Leslie describes the emotional whiplash of being both a physician and a mom when a loved one is ill. While Besties Angella and Leslie share their relief, they pivot to sharing practical wisdom on the conversations and structures families can have in place when crises arise.
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Hey Ange. Hey Les. How's it going? Different. You said different. You are hilarious. You are so funny. Listen, I have been in Wig World. I have been in Wig World. I just um yes, last night was opening night of Legally Blonde the musical that I um was hair and wig designer for. And I've been in Wig World. And listen, my hair was not trying to do anything. It was trying to be soft and fine and not in a good way. Fine, not in a good way. Not foreign. And I was like, look, I've got wigs and I'm gonna wear one. And here we go.
SPEAKER_01:And here you go, and it looks good.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. Welcome back. And welcome to another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn. Hey guys, I'm Angela, and that's Leslie, my best friend of almost 50 years. We are two free thinking 60-something-year-old black women who have decided to make joy and boldness more pronounced in our lives. We invite you to join us on our journey. We invite you to continue your journey. We invite you to start your journey along with us. Um, today we're gonna be um just inviting you in to do some praise, praise and thanksgiving with us with some new news that Leslie will share. And we also want to um reintroduce you to an episode that we did in April of 2024, the 30th of April, by the way. We will put a link to it, but um that's the date about um uh preparing for death with a death doula. As you know, from two episodes ago, Leslie has been in the um in the very, very challenging position of being a mother with a uh a sick child. Um he's not a child, but he's her child. He's my child. And um, so hospitals and all those things have been ever-present every day for her, and we've got some news, some updates on that, and we will be talking a little bit to introduce you to the episode that I just mentioned. So, yeah, Les, why was I crying today?
SPEAKER_01:Why do I have you Ang, I haven't heard you boo-hoo cry like that in quite a while. It came from deep. You were boo-hoo. It was like a culmination of the tears that I've shed over the last five weeks. And oh my gosh. But today started out such, it started out a little differently for me, and I'll tell you why. My son has been critically ill for more than a month now in the hospital. And between the ups and downs and the sitting at his bedside and the hand-wringing and the worrying and the prayers and the praising and all of these things, every single day it was something different. And I felt compelled to sit at bedside so that I can meet with all of the teams that would round and come in for different. So there was urologist, there's cardiologists, there's pulmonologists, there's the nephrologist, there's neurologist, and there's social work, and this, and the medical team. It was like so much of me didn't want to be a physician, and then so much of me didn't want to be a mom at the times when I needed to be a physician. It is the weirdest, craziest thing. I wish I could be out here looking at it instead I'm in it. But this morning I woke up in a different way. It was, it was almost like game day decision-making time because as his acute issues are slowly becoming resolved, we have to start thinking about placement and where he goes when he gets discharged from the hospital. So I've been faced with making decisions about where my previously living alone, independent, working, driving, whatever son, what happens to him as he cannot take care of himself at this point. My choices were to send him to an acute rehab facility where he can get more intense therapy versus a subacute, essentially a nursing home where maybe he'll get an hour a day of therapy or stimulation or whatever. And as you can imagine, how painful that is for me to think about and make that decision. So I woke up this morning in a way that's differently than I typically wake up. You know, I didn't jump up, I did not turn on the radio to listen to the weather or the news. I really stayed quiet for a while in prayer. And that prayer took me through getting ready. I rushed out, I didn't turn on the radio in the car, I stayed in that moment, you know, because I was just asking that his will be done, you know, that Omari be placed in the best place for him, and that wherever it is, it's suitable for his healing and complete wellness, right? So here's where Leslie steps in. I knew that today was going to be a day that he was gonna be re-evaluated by the physiatrist and the physical therapy and the occupational therapy team. Up to this point, Omari has not been able to speak. He has not had any movement in his lower extremities, and his exams have been inconsistent. So I'm like, oh, and we asked them like one more time, one more again, come back, come back. This time it's gonna be different. So listen, the last two days I've been in his ear like a coach. Listen, Mari, this is it. Come on. If never you've been able to do this before, this is it. This is game time. So there was an episode where, and I guess this is part of the process because here's this 37-year-old man lying in a bed for five weeks. They wonder if he was depressed, but he was refusing his medications, right? And he literally like held this liquid in his mouth for 45 minutes while we, you know, and then spit it out.
unknown:Wow.
SPEAKER_01:And he was kind of like, with his eyes closed, pretending to be asleep. I'm like, this is not the day for this. This is not the day. I said, they're gonna ask you to say something, don't nod your head. You gotta use your voice. And I'm like, they're gonna ask you to push in your legs. And let me tell you, my son. And not just my son, my God, because this guy did things this morning that I had no idea. He couldn't believe it. First of all, he started out feeding himself clumsily, but he was using his hands and feeding himself. And they asked him, what season is this? Or some such thing. They're like, there's a holiday next week. What holiday is it? First of all, if you're in a hospital for over a month, how the hell do you know what holiday is?
SPEAKER_00:If you're living your life, are you you're gonna be able to do it?
SPEAKER_01:They say, okay, it's Turkey Day. What days of the week is Thanksgiving on? He's like, Thursday. Like, my God. What? I was in the corner like doing a praise dance. And then they asked me if I had lotion. I didn't understand why, but I thought maybe they were gonna lotion his back. So I handed them a jar of this lovely cream. And they hand they told him to take it in his hand. He did. And they told him to take some and rub it on his legs. Didn't my guy take some and rub it on his legs? I'm like, what? Nothing short of America. Then they handed him like a washcloth and said, wipe your face with it. He took it and I'm like, I have seen it all. Oh my god. I have seen my job here, it is done. So it was so impressive, I'll tell you that the team that had been following him came in to see, I gotta see it for myself. And then I got word that he is going to be transferred to the facility that I want him to be transferred to. The acute rehab, where he gets hours of therapy every day, very intense therapy, and it's very close to work that I can just drop in. And I'm on staff there at the hospital.
SPEAKER_00:Praise God. So can you tell them about the when when you were leaving the room, what you said, and what he responded with?
SPEAKER_01:It was in a different language. There was a couple things. Oh, oh. I um I said to him, um, that was when he was getting the lumbar puncture. I said, um, Bueno Suerte. And he responded back, Bueno Suerte. And I said, what does that mean?
SPEAKER_02:He said, good luck.
SPEAKER_01:I'm like, there you go, there you go. My guy is by multilingual. Coming back. Multilingual.
SPEAKER_00:Multilingual. What? Yeah. Unbelievable. Yeah. Listen, y'all, this is this is what miracles look like. This is what y'all, this is our reporting of the Red Sea.
SPEAKER_01:This is it. And I'll tell you what, what also happened, then neurologist took me in the hallway and she says, What happened? What happened? She's like, because she even asked him, what, and she said, What happened? I'm like, I don't have an explanation, but I've been praying. Prayer works for me. I don't know about you. Right. But she's like, what happened? This was Yeah. And the reason we're bringing this to you and talking to you about it, one, because it just happened. I just got word that everything is, is, is, we're going to be all right. It takes a big load off my chest. But I also wanted to say another thing about, I made an attempt to pay his telephone bill. And I called up his carrier. And they said, Well, do you have access to his email address? I'm like, no, I have his phone in my hand, but I don't know anything about it. They like, well, we can't help you. And I'm like, look, I need to speak to a supervisor. Well, they're going to tell you the same thing. I said, look, this is a business. She said, well, we can't make exceptions for you. I said, this is not exception. This is real life. I said, people die, people have heart attacks, people have strokes, they become incapacitated. There are legal ways to handle such things. I said, I have his power of attorney documents notarized that he signed. I am his healthcare power of attorney and his business for everything else. Where do I send the legal documents in? This is not an exception. This is real life. Tell me where I send it in. And you're trying to give the money. And I'm trying to pay a bill. I said, I'm not trying to get anything from his account. I just need to pay his bill. The most we can do is extend it 14 days. I said, unacceptable, put somebody else on the phone. And finally, they sent me in an email for legal department. I haven't heard back yet, but the point all this that we're bringing to is that here we have a young man. This is not at prayerfully the end of his life, but people die. People die unexpectedly. There's we have all kinds of digital footprints and presents. There are, I couldn't get into his telephone because he's incapacitated. I don't know many of his accounts. I have to look through his papers to find out who he banks with. All those things. So as I was talking to Ange about that today, she says, wait a minute, didn't we do an uh a podcast about this some time ago? So whereas I was we were going to discuss some of the same things that we figured that it would be helpful to have in place to ask your loved ones and things, just in case, just to know.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:We're not gonna repeat ourselves. We we've done this already.
SPEAKER_00:And let me tell you, it was done well. It was very, very well done. Very well done. The episode is called What You Never Knew You Needed, uh, Death Doula. And it featured um uh Alua author. She wrote this book called Going with Grace, and she is a self-described death doula. We learned about her from the Therapy for Black Girls um podcast. Um and we talked about how the the the the conversation was around how we're preparing for death, and how that preparation is not for the the the the the dying or or the person who who dies. It's for the people who are left behind. Right. And it can be a gift, it is a gift. And Leslie talked about some of her personal experiences with the death of people around her, and it was just so well done. We were like, listen, this is gonna reinvent the wheel.
SPEAKER_01:That's what we're gonna do about. We're not gonna do it. And I gotta get back to the hospital.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Someone's waiting on you. Someone is waiting to get, oh my gosh, I can't. Every time I think about it, I still have a headache from this morning. Just the the the the blessings of God. And we, you know, you you we know that the journey is is going to be long and there are going to be highs and lows. But in this moment, right now, this is the most beautiful. We see that he's in there. He's a lion. He he showed up, he understood, he is translating language. It it it it it just just just on time, you guys don't even know how long it's been since we've seen him in this this state of awareness and engagement. It is a miracle, it is a miracle, period. Yeah. Punto. So um enjoy the episode. We will um we will be uh bringing you updates because um this stuff is important, right? It is, and it's not just for people who are dying.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, there are things that we need to know about our loved ones, people we care for, people we're in charge of. Things we have to step up into responsibilities that we need information and exchange of things in order to do that, right?
SPEAKER_00:You know? Right. Something you said in the episode, Les, that was so fun. You said um, you said uh the the every the only way out of this is dying. Everybody's gonna die. You can't get out of this without being dead. So this is for this is for everyone. There's no escaping. There's no escaping. Um so anyway, with that, enjoy our episode what you never knew you needed a death doula. Enjoy. Hey Ange. Hey Les, what's cooking?
SPEAKER_01:All good in this hood.
SPEAKER_00:All good in my new hood. It's so good. It's so good.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Today's a good day. I'm gonna jump right into our podcast. So I'll start by saying, welcome to another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn. Brooklyn. I feel compelled to say this is the Invisalign edition because I have my teeth in it. I feel myself slurring already. I don't want to take them out to speak. So I'm just putting it out there. I don't have this much of a lisp. Normally, I do have a lot of voices in it. That's hilarious. So I think maybe it's I'm only about a month and a half in, so okay, okay. You know, it'll in other words, it'll be longer than they say it, probably. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:All right.
SPEAKER_01:But I see a difference. You're on the journey. You're on the journey. I asked them not to close the gap in the front of my teeth, and it looks like the gap is closing. People don't listen. People don't listen to what we know? No, no, no. It looks like the gap is closing. But I like the way it looks. I like it.
SPEAKER_00:You need I'm just saying. I need to say something, mate.
SPEAKER_01:I need to say something.
SPEAKER_00:It's a part of your heritage. You need to say something. You need to say something. That is it's it's very much uh a part of your African ancestry. So you need to say something.
SPEAKER_01:All right, I'll I'll look again and reevaluate that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Okay. All right. Listen, this is gonna be a doozy.
SPEAKER_01:I know, and it is so right up my alley that people are gonna think I'm weird. But by the end of this episode, now they're gonna weird. By the end of this episode, they're gonna get me. They're gonna feel me.
SPEAKER_00:Right, right.
SPEAKER_01:So I had occasion to listen to a podcast that it's like, we gotta talk about this, Ange. We gotta talk about this, Ange. What were you gonna say? Because I may not stop talking once I start.
SPEAKER_00:Nothing new as well. I was going to say that I also, well, I listened to some of it, but as soon as you sent me the email and I read the summary, I'm like, this is so Leslie's thing. And so it's um, I'm I'm looking forward to this because number one, it's so freaking important. Number two, because we have so much experience in this. You in terms of doing the right thing, me in terms of my experiences um not having done the right thing. And I think it's really going to help people to get in gear, including myself. Because it's, you know, come on, let's go. Come on, let's go.
SPEAKER_01:All right, not too many more shopping days till Christmas.
SPEAKER_00:Not too many.
SPEAKER_01:In the words of that sage Monique. So I listen to a podcast um and I get correspondence from them. It's called Therapy for Black Girls. Yeah. Uh, you might have introduced me to that some years ago when I was looking for a therapist.
SPEAKER_00:Um I thank you for giving me um my props for that because I am indeed the one who connects.
SPEAKER_01:And it's not just for black girls, it's it's not for dudes as well. But anyway, um so it's run by um a psychiatrist in Atlanta, Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford. And I listened to her most recent podcast episode, and a light went off. She was featuring a lady that titles herself a death dueler. Amazing. You're like, what? Now, first of all, I'm familiar with labor and delivery doolers that support um people in and around their pregnancies and deliveries, but I've never heard of the term a death dueler. In fact, I kind of bristled at the term initially. Because more on that later. I think it has a connotation of um morbidity for sure, mortality for certain, death. Okay, and I like so many people when I hear the word death, it just sets up a whole constellation of ideas.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So let me just bristle at it because you you have experience with um with doulas, and and we um generally understand doulas to be people who support new life, and so you bristled at the idea of uh how can end of life. What the heck? Yeah, it it wasn't, but it wasn't that.
SPEAKER_01:It was it wasn't that. I I think in my humanness and as a normal person, I also feel some kind of way when I think about death and end of life. So, in that regard, but I just want to talk a little bit about my experiences with death personally. I have mentioned probably many times that I grew up in a house with five generations um in one home. So I was fortunate and blessed to grow up with great-grandparents. Um, well into my mid-20s, um, I believe my grandmother, my great-grandmother um died. I'll use the word, I start to say pass away. Died, um, I was 26 at the time. Uh, Nana Margaret um lived in our home. We cared for her, and I was able to witness the end of many of my relatives' life. And then when I went to medical school, I um had the occasion to see patients at the end of their lives and interact with their families, and I felt a certain um kinship and connection to them, unusually so for a medical student. Um and I wondered what that was, and I remember two particular incidents where one was a very young man who died in a car accident. He must have been 19, I've told you about that story. And an um another was an older person, but I forced myself to stay in the patient's room and the family's room after they died. And I remember forcing myself to stay silent and let them process it and grieve in that way. And I was proud of myself. I remembered how difficult it was not to say anything or try to console them immediately or offer a medical explanation, but to let them lead the session. That was impactful for me. Um, well, one when these things happen, the physicians often leave because of the finality of it all. They may pronounce the patient and express their, you know, I'm sorry for your loss.
SPEAKER_02:Right, right.
SPEAKER_01:And and then they leave because quite honestly, we have other things to do, or we may have paperwork to do or whatever. And in the case of the 19-year-old young man, um, my son, I don't think was that old at the time, but you know, I connected you know, with them as a parent. I knew what it must feel like to lose your child. I who would know that in that very same hospital, I would almost have that very same experience in the emergency room, almost losing my child after Omari had his car accident. Same exact hospital, same exact ER, same physician staff. But anyway, um, but I made that connection, and then I felt that as a medical student, we often have the jobs of doing things that the physicians, you know, don't do. And I didn't want to leave the parents in the room by themselves. So I stayed in there.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_01:Anyway, man, it could just take me right back there. So anyway, that experience really throughout the rest of my uh medical school career and throughout residency, I really became particularly interested in um the eth the medical ethics around a patient at the end of their life. Um how to support best support families at that time. And then what I termed a good death. So I um volunteered to be on committees while I was in medical school and residency and um take more courses and read more about it and things like that. So that's my history um with um with my interest in it. So now um fast forward a couple more years, um my father recently died two years ago, and it has been my role over the years with all of my family members and friends, and we've talked about this with the podcast, that I talk to people about what end-of-life planning looks like.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And we even had our friend Carl Chen, the estate planning attorney, um, do two episodes on our podcast previously. We'll we can link them um so people can remember, but um the legal part of it and the legacies that you can leave for your families and wills and advanced directives, what would you want to happen um on your last days or when you cannot no longer make decisions for yourself? So I had not realized how impactful my conversations with my father over the years had been because when he passed, well, he became um cognitively impaired from a stroke first, so was unable to make decisions for himself several years before he died.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:I didn't even know, but I re uh received a packet in the mail from an estate planning attorney's office that dad had made me power of attorney, completed his will, did all these things. I gotta tell you, as difficult as it could have been, his passing and death and planning his estate was perfectly planned. Wow. It made my and my brother and sister's lives so much easier. Him having put those things in place. Yeah. And I'm like, yes, okay. I gotta tell everybody what success in this arena looks like, right? So, you know, I talk about that a lot. We had to call on because it's important and stuff. Most of us do not have these things in place.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Um, the first thing that I hear most commonly when I speak about it, even with my husband, you know, I'm like, are you sure you have this or whatever? You know, do you have let's talk about he'll say, It's Sunday. Why do you want to talk about that? Or I don't want to talk about this right now. Can we do this another time? And then I become a nag. And it seems like I'm not waiting for him to die. But it's a similar conversation I have with my mother. What I think about is that at the end of a person's life, when family is surrounded and gathering and grief, the last thing we want to do is look for paperwork, is clear out a home, is sort through important papers, looking for things that you can't find, and trying to settle financial matters and things like that. I think taking care of these things ahead of time is a gift that you give to your loved ones.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. I um so many things, so many things that um came to mind. I remember it was way before um your father died. Um way before. I think maybe you were still in medical school or shortly after, where you told me the role that I was gonna have. You sent me all the paperwork. I know exactly where it is. Um I mean, it was tied with a bow.
SPEAKER_01:I made you my healthcare proxy, uh, you and my sister. And remember that Ernest had big problems with that. He's a physician, he's my husband, etc. But the thing that I realized early on with Ernest is that he and I think differently about, you know, um what to do when your heart stops or, you know, cold status and different ruby and different things, different things like that. And people don't realize my husband loves me. I know that. But when I say I don't want any extraordinary, I don't want to be on a ventilator on machines, I know that he would not be able to honor my wishes. And people don't realize that when you are in that role as a proxy, you are the voice of the person. It is not your own voice. So I learned I knew early on that Ernest would not, in his own consciousness, be able to uh respect the wishes that I would want for myself. And that's why I named people other than him. But he was upset about it. You know, it it was created a rift. Whereas he would want to be on a ventilator or let's say, or artificial um support until he crumbled in the hospital bed, until he touched him and he was desiccated and he would be ashes, he would be ashes to ashes before while the machine is still beeping. And I did tell him that if that's what you want, my dear, I could do that for you. Right, you know.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah. So oh my gosh. Um I so I listened to the podcast as well, and so many things. Right. We didn't even get into the that that content as yet. Well, it's it's kind of like one of the reasons why I'm like, Les, we have to we have to do a recording on this because um I know that you had some particular experiences um and mine were quite different. I don't have all of these things done. Um I saw the experience. Um my father, he had pretty much disconnected from a lot of our societal um norms in terms of keeping track of all of that stuff long ago. So um, but my mother um I I think it maybe it was just because of um uh growing up, not in a place or um where there were societal norms around planning for death, you know, Cuba, Jamaica, and then coming here. My mother was a very practical person. She took care of things, um uh, you know, always kind of had money set aside if we needed to take a trip to Jamaica, especially while my grandparents were alive, because you know, at any point when they got sick, we would all go. Um, so she was very practical in terms of those things. But I think there were just some things that she just didn't know. And then when she went into cognitive decline with um dementia, um uh my sister did put some things in place, um, and we needed to put some things in place because eventually um she went into a um um uh a home, a care facility. And so we needed to have those things in order to advocate for her. But up up un to this day, my mother has money in a bank account that I have not been able to get access to. Um she wasn't kind of an online person, you know. Um that I think she died before it really got, you know, that that was kind of the way of life. Um but I know that there's so much that I need to do for my children. Um, some years ago, if you remember, I had um a head talk. Um, I I used to have these courageous conversations in my home. Head was um an acronym. Um uh highlighting and embracing um highlight, embrace and something diversity um was the acronym for head talks. Um anyway, and I had someone come in to talk who lit who worked in a um healthcare facility to talk about um death and dying. And what really struck me is that you do these things not for you. You're gone, you've died, you are it wherever your faith is is gonna take you, that's where you are. And your family is left with what's what's left of you, your family, including your body, but also all of your history is left with your family. Um for me, it would be young up, you know, adult children, but you know, still in their 20s. Um and it's for them. It's for them, and it's a matter of prioritizing. But I really need help to get over. I've done things up to a point, and then I allowed something to stop me. Right. When they were younger, it was because, oh, I didn't know how I was gonna handle um Isaiah because he was um he's five years younger than um my middle son. And I got stuck in thinking about how their father, who's not really involved in their lives, how I would manage their father's um involvement if I died when he was a minor. And so things like that along the way just have kind of crippled me in terms of taking action. I mean, I've cataloged things, I've I got a book where I listed everything out. You know, where'd you get the book? I I haven't Leslie, because this is who she is. I distributed them to all my buds. Yes, and I, you know, in packing, I came across it again. I'm like, oh my god, I gotta update this. Me too, my own. It's been so long. Um, so anyway, we both we've had very different experiences um with this these systems that we have to put in place. And so when I listen to the podcast about a deaf doula, I'm like, what a blessing she is to those families who bring her on board. Yes.
SPEAKER_01:So now I'll bring up the fact that I love the fact that she used the word death, not end-of-life doula, not your final doula. I think we need to destigmatize that word.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I think the more that we use it, the better, the less it will sting, the less it we will bristle about it. It would be like it. I would love it to become any other word. Because what she does, she not only supports who is she? Well, yes, I was gonna say Who is she? A Lua author. Her first name is A L-U-A. She is the founder of a company uh called Going with Grace, and she recently um published a memoir called Briefly Perfect Human. She has training as an attorney, and she had um an encounter with a woman who was um terminally ill, and in their conversations, she came back um from the trip and determined that her life was not the way that she wanted it to be, and really started thinking about forming this um business that she now runs and the need for it.
SPEAKER_00:Um it's can I say one thing, Les? Yeah, I'll forget so one thing that really hit me as I was listening to her journey in getting here is um so she mentioned that one of the reasons why she left the legal profession is because she um had pretty severe depression and she she she left and went on this journey to Cuba, and that's where she met this this person. Yeah. And at some point she talked about the fact that getting involved in this this death work and helping people through and getting to having a sense of um of uh almost um respect for for death and and the person who is who is in the process of dying. It addressed it it helped her with her depression. She she she said that she will always have it. It's not like it went away. And so it made me start thinking about joy in the midst of, and you know, when I talk about joy, it is not we're not talking about happy. That is not what I mean when I talk about joy. Yeah, I talk about fulfillment and satisfaction and and and deep-seated, it's much more deep-seated, right? And I really thought about man, how much more joy would we have knowing that these things are in place for our likelines when we go?
SPEAKER_01:This could be a real source of joy and yeah, it does not have to be a morbid dark thought that I she doesn't work only with people who are at the end of their life at an end stage. It's a continuum of support and what things do you need to get in place. I remember I recently printed out what um Facebook, not Facebook, Apple, calls their legacy key. It's like a 35-digit um password per se, right, so that a loved one or another person can access your Apple ID. There's a whole lot of information that could be lost when you pass away and people don't know your passwords or this or that. Who could I don't even know my password.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Let alone someone else. So it's these types of things that in her work, Miss Arthur um has put together this company that can navigate and steer people, even to consider the things that you need to consider. Do they have a digital online presence? What about all of their financial accounts and insurance policies? Um, are there any other legal things that need to be taken care of to be put in place to make a transition easy? She even mentioned that um when her brother-in-law died, he they wanted to give his car to their nephew. And they ran into so many obstacles just to transfer a title. Yeah. You know, because it had to go into the estate first and then sit and probate or this or that. And I was remembering how easy it was for me to give my father's car away, although I remembered that I gave I donated his car to Cars for Kids or something like that before he passed. So that's why I bypassed the step of including it in his estate. But um, there are so many things that you don't even need to think about because someone else has done that. Yeah. Oh my God. So it's it's not, I don't look at it as death planning per se, but it's life planning and helping with decision making for things that we don't need to think about. Because you'll miss something. But there are so many different steps. Like I said to my mom, I've asked her at least in the last 10 years, can you start paring down your clothing, your artwork, your tchotchkis, your things, start, you know, letting people know, giving away pictures now. And, you know, because when she passes, if she passes before me, I will not go through pockets looking for things of value and drawers. There's 50 years of being in our family home of four full floor, four floors. Say that five times with a line is in your mouth, with four floors. And I could, my siblings and I, we could never go through everything. It's really gonna be bundled up and discarded or given away in mass. We have no idea what could be lost. Right. You know, right. And and the time to think about it is when you have the energy and you're free from illness, you know, time for us to think about me is now, you is now, except, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But someone like Alua Arthur with her company could be very instrumental in supporting decision making and families. And she says she um she works with often whole people, you know, the whole family members, you know, or individuals that want to give this what I call the ultimate gift to their loved ones.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So interesting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, she described um having a group of maybe 16 people in a family all filling out the paperwork and all. I mean, that's how about that for a family vacation? That would be, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01:I could envision because you imagine what the flyer looks like a keynote speaker for our family reunion, Death Doula. People will like, what the hell? Lizzie done gone mad. What is the flyer? Did you see what? I don't think I'm doing.
SPEAKER_00:You know, maybe a lot of what gets in the way for people too. Um, I'm wondering if this is the case for me. No, this is not my issue, but it gets them to realize that um there is finality. And so the things that they're ignoring, like how how they're eating and whether they're exercising, it it forces them to actually take stock of that. Start thinking about mortality. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But yeah, but nobody leaves this earth without dying. We ain't gonna get away. We're not gonna escape it. So, how about we go on our own terms rather than the state's terms or your family's terms who may not um either know or be in agreement with your final wishes? I've had a lot of um family loss recently. I lost a young cousin, um 28 or nine years old, uh, a couple weeks ago, and he had a um protracted illness, but toward um the last month or so, toward the last month or so of his life, he didn't want any visitors. He seemed like he was depressed, and his grandmother, um, my aunt, uh, you know, wanted to continue treatment and all, and I did remind her that um we have to honor what it is that he wants for himself, not what we would want, because we would want to hold them close and keep them forever. Um yeah, I I had that conversation with her, a painful one, you know. And then more recently, about a week and a half ago, I lost a um a dear cousin who was a uh physician, uh, another physician in the family, and she was uh Jehovah's Witness. Her sisters um respected the fact that she did not want any funeral or any kind of public service with her passing, and that we may do some type of life celebration um at a later time for her, for um Pinky. Um her sister did say that um she was somewhat of a hoarder and collected a lot of stuff. There were patient charts and patients calling, trying to make appointments still. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02:Oof.
SPEAKER_01:Um that her sisters, not physicians, had to deal with and close up the office and things like that. And I haven't checked in in a while, but I can only imagine in your grieving having to take care of a checklist of tasks.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Right. You know? Right, yeah, yeah. So, okay, Les. Oof. Gotta do it. I know, I know.
SPEAKER_01:And this is not to be a depressing conversation. It's not a good thing. No, it doesn't have to be. It's it gets depressing when if I'm end stage and on my deathbed, that's when the depression, you know, might start. But if I'm talking to you now, hey, we could talk about it over a martini.
SPEAKER_00:But for me, it's not a depressing thing. To me, this this personally, this is not depressing. This is not a depressing topic. What gets in my way is the actual um is the actual taking, taking action. Okay, I gotta get this stuff together. Okay, I have to hire this person or I have to. It's really carving out the time. It's almost like carving out the time to to liquidate.
SPEAKER_01:I was I was thinking the same thing because there's so many so many things in this regard that I need to do myself, an update and this and that, which I haven't done. I've I've acquired, I think, two convertibles since I've last done my two convertibles in a house. It's like that are not gonna turn to I'm gonna take them uh a little piece of uh a pen and just like jot it down, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, and another thing. Oh, and another thing. So Les, before we go, um, you had mentioned um I can't remember what the context was, but how talking to people and letting them know what your wishes are, that that's yeah, and you know, you know I'm that guy.
SPEAKER_01:So even if even if you don't put things in writing, which is the ideal way and notarize and part of your estate plan, but and the legal way. If you and right, but even if you talk to your family members and let them know what it is that you want, she's always said that she doesn't want to be buried, she wants to be cremated. Even if that's not in your uh written down, you know, your family members at least can know that in the absence of paperwork, what if they can't find your paperwork? You know, they know that listen, if they put your behind in the ground, it ain't what you want. They can do that if they want. Sleepless nights and being haunted, but haunted. What is that knocking? You know, do that at your peril. So, yeah, by talking about it, the other thing that talking about it, it kind of like it um numbs the the, you know, it neutralizes things, it kind of numbs the sting a little bit. Oh, she's always talking about that. Let's normalize these types of things because it is normal to leave this for earth and death.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_01:We gotta know that. We gotta know that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You know, even Moses didn't live forever. How long how long did um you know, like these folks? He didn't even get to the promised land. He was like, You guys keep going, keep going, go on without me. You know.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my gosh, yeah. Okay, yes, ma'am. Yes, um.
SPEAKER_01:That is my story for today. So, you know, I guess we all have our marching orders. And you know what? Let's hold each other accountable. You all hold your loved ones accountable. Has it been done? Did you do it? Maybe you can buy them a book or something to write, write things in, you know, when circumstances change, update it. But it's more than that. You know, you and I talked about that um there's some kind of um composting. I know it sounds so weird. I told Ernest this and he kind of looked at me like, well, what the hell is my wife talking about now? You can compost your body. It is a service. We'll put that in. Uh I wrote it down. Uh, not many people do it these days, but it is some type of ceremony where you are put back into the earth from whence you came.
SPEAKER_00:Um, it's it's uh it's a pod, it's a composting. Is that what you mean?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Your body is wrapped in organic material, and you are put in a place where you naturally decompose and a beautiful tree blossoms on top of you, and this that's what I want. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's expensive and it's a process, but I don't know what the other expensive is. So is that wooden box? Exactly. It is exactly in comparison. I I I don't think it would be it would be an issue. Yeah. Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Let's put money aside for that. I think on one of our vacations, Les, we met me to set aside time and go look at the compost.
SPEAKER_01:My body's gonna be right in there.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, no. I'm gonna choose which tree I want to be. Okay. No, but just to just to get that, um, get me started on this. I tried to do it once before, but then we just were having so good a time. But I know, but I really want to do it over to some of the basic, some of the basic okay. Some of the basic things. And just yeah, yeah. All right, okay. Well, I'm with you.
SPEAKER_01:Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn is produced by Angela Fraser. Our editing team is from Matt Dershowitz, and our marketing social media team is by Couture Copywriting. So this has been another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
SPEAKER_02:Brooklyn!
