Ep161 A candid conversation about self-care and burnout

Angella and Leslie discuss caregiver guilt and the risks of letting health gains slip. The Besties of nearly fifty years share how small, steady habits can protect mood, sleep and identity when stress seems to take over life. From intermittent fasting to committing to a Dry January, they map out simple ways to restart. Instead of chasing perfection or waiting for life to “normalize,” they focus on small wins that actually fit messy days.

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Transcript

Flu, Fear, And Gratitude

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Hey Ann. How you doing, babe? We're almost matching in tone and color. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 0:14

And then spiritedness, because I'm feeling quite spirited. I'm back.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

Oh, really? I am back. Hey. I'm back, and this time I'm black. Flu fluosity is gone.

SPEAKER_04 0:29

It's gone. It's gone. A little raspy. A little rough. But yeah, thank you. Ooh, I tell you, when you when you get sick like that, you start thinking all kinds of things.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Listen, all kinds of things about your mortality. It's true. It's true. It's like, am I gonna be able to survive this?

SPEAKER_03 0:49

You know, it's it's funny, but there are people, believe it or not, that don't survive flu and things like that. It's like, that's why I got my flu vaccine. I think I even got covet again this year. Wow vaccine, and I got RSV. I was like, Load it up, let me load up my immune system because you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:11

Yeah, I'm going, I'm going tomorrow to get whatever I can get. Oh, yeah, lock the barn.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

The horse is gone.

SPEAKER_04 1:18

Wow, Les. So um lock that bond door.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

Yeah. I heard the hoofs are mild out. Lock that barn door. Welcome to another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.

Welcome And Show Purpose

SPEAKER_04 1:32

Hey guys, I'm Angela, and that's Leslie, my best friend of almost 50 years. We are two free-thinking 60-something-year-old black women, and we've decided to bring more joy and boldness into our lives for the rest of our lives. We invite you to come along with us. We invite you to um continue your journey, start your journey. Let's do this joy thing and show the world how us older black women do the thing. Woo! I'm feeling so good to be alive. Ooh, Lord. I'm glad you're alive. Me too. Me too. Um, all right, so today we're gonna be talking about um how how how we how to avoid letting go of the gains that we have achieved, right? Um Les mention what you mentioned to me and why I'm like, we gotta talk about this.

Don’t Stop Caring For Yourself

SPEAKER_02 2:35

Yeah. First of all, you always put my business in the school. Wait a minute.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

If you don't have some good business, I wouldn't. I should preface all my conversations and our private conversations with you now is and this is off the record.

SPEAKER_04 2:57

You go right ahead. You can do that when we do a lot more lives, but listen, whatever you don't want to say, don't have to go out there into the into the uh web sphere. So go ahead, come on.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

So Ricardo said to me, Hey Les, we were talking over the phone, and he says, Les, what did you eat this evening?

SPEAKER_03 3:22

And I said, Oh man, I've been eating everything since I came in the door. I think I had some chips and some pretzels and this, and he's like, and then I'm waiting for judgment because he, you know, I kind of like stopped. And I'm like, man, I've just been eating everything. And he's like, Well, that's okay, as long as you don't stop caring.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

And I said, even though I kind of knew, I said, uh, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_03 3:59

And that really it started about a 30-minute conversation between the two of us, you know, and what he said, you know, essentially is that he is well aware of the stress that um we are under as a as a family, with our son being ill, and the uh uncertainties that um are ahead of us and why I might be out of my routine or more stressed than normal. But he said that don't stop being concerned about that and about your well-being because it's so hard to come back when you've quote unquote let yourself go for a period of time, for a protracted period of time, then try to cut it and and grip it and start looking inward and and thinking about self-care.

Intermittent Fasting And Gut-Brain Health

SPEAKER_04 5:08

Yeah. Yeah, and and how did that um did that hit you as conviction? Not judgment, but did that hit you as conviction, like, okay, I gotta get my stuff together, or how did it hit you well when he said it?

SPEAKER_03 5:24

At first I wanted to brustle up against it and you know, push back and be a little defensive, like, no, I know, I know. But you know, I honestly I admit it to him like I think I'm at the point where I've really stopped caring. The the fact that I haven't been working out regularly or at all, and not eating as healthfully as I had been eating, it was not bothering me as much as it had been.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

I see.

SPEAKER_03 6:01

You know, I almost kind of have been given in, justifying it by saying that, well, when Omari is discharged and when he comes home, we'll have some more normalcy in our lives.

SPEAKER_06 6:14

Right.

SPEAKER_03 6:15

I'll have reason to cook, you know, um in the evenings, or um I'll have more regular hours, or I'll be home with him so I could, you know, concentrate on myself a little bit more. Yeah, yeah. You know, and after trying to push back a little bit the next day, I really I thanked him for intervening like that, you know? Yeah.

unknown 6:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:42

You know, I I really thanked him because one thing that one of the many reasons why he's really good for me is that one, he really is concerned about health and wellness and fitness. He's he stays pretty fit. But the other thing is that he's always cared for me. You know, he's always looked out for me. And whether when before we were together, you know, over the years, he's always been concerned about me. Um, and that's something that I've known and appreciated.

Routine Loss And Caregiver Burnout

SPEAKER_04 7:18

Yeah. Yeah. And so when you mentioned this to me the other day, yeah, I I thought about um what that what that meant for me. And also why that's such a um it's such an action inducing way to frame it. Right? The because I I I immediately thought about how um doing the fasting that I started maybe in October into the first time. A little bit yeah, a little bit before my birthday it was, um, because I took a break for my birthday um a few days around my birthday, but I'd started um not eating after 8 p.m. and not starting up again until 11 a.m. So if um I think that's 15 hour, 13 or 15 hour um fasting. And I was doing it really consistently, and I was doing it. Um there there are a lot of um health benefits to this, is um the way that my research um has indicated, and I got the book run um no, fast like a girl was the name of it. Um and the main reason for me to do it was because I wanted to address my gut health, because mom, as you know, died of dementia, and so I'm always thinking about the health of my brain, and gut health and brain health are um are associated, and so but addressing that in terms of gut health and all the other ways that it helped me, like I lost weight. I didn't even tell you how much weight I've lost um since since I I started this. Um and um I regular bowel movements, my my um uh heartburn has gone away. It's back because I've stopped.

SPEAKER_06 9:44

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 9:45

But just these these things that just made me miserable, didn't give me uh a nice solid night sleep. And it was something that I could do to take care of myself and the holidays and you know, the travel and the you know, these um reasons that we have. I mean, I I still could have done it in in large part, but you make excuses, you you know, so that is what came to mind for me. And it's not even like um um uh it I didn't find it difficult to do. Um, I didn't find it difficult to do. And so when you and I were talking about it, I remember um there are kind of two ways that you can approach this, right? You can either say, I I I don't want to feel this way, or you could say, I want to feel this way, right?

SPEAKER_03 10:50

So I don't feel a certain other way. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 10:53

Like it could be the negative, what do you want to avoid? Um, what do you want to run away from, and what what do you want to run towards? And I I really I mean, we're just nicer people when we're taking care of ourselves. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 11:09

It feels good, yeah, it feels good.

The Guilt Of Thriving While Caring

SPEAKER_03 11:12

I'll I'll tell you that also, you know, for me, the loss of routine while it was emergent and unexpected, because it has gone on now for three months. Yeah. You know, there's a there's so many psychological components or nuances to it. But one of the things that I was proud of myself that I could be up and at the gym at 5 a.m. two or three times a week. You know, that level of discipline. And as I said, I I didn't initiate it to lose weight. I really wanted to be stronger and I wanted to show myself that I could stick with something like that. And when you become fit and feel better, you know, my joints were feeling better, I was feeling stronger and all of that. So I do feel like I've gotten out of the routine and I've lost some of the gains that I had um acquired over that time. But the other thing, and this is something that may be particular to caregivers, you spend so much energy caring and loving others that I just didn't have enough reserve. So my life has become so narrow that, you know, I work, I go to the hospital and t tend to him. Then I come home exhausted, so didn't have time to cook a proper meal, so tired that you just go to bed and then you wake up and rinse and repeat, you know? Yeah. So it's so funny because I had this conversation with my therapist just a few days ago, and you know, she says, So, what have you done for yourself lately?

SPEAKER_02 13:18

I'm like, How dare she ask this?

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Is this gang up on this movie? What the hell?

SPEAKER_03 13:24

Ricardo, then it too brute, it too brute, you know, and um, and I'm like, Well, she's like, and I'm like, You were like clutching the nothing, and she says, Well, you've been saying that you were gonna go to get a massage, that you were gonna go maybe do some yogurt or get back into the gym. Have you done any of that yet? And I looked, is there one? Is there one? I said, but I'm gonna get to it. I'm gonna get to it.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

So what do we what like what yeah, what is the getting to it is like are you at that point?

Small Wins And Dry January

SPEAKER_03 14:07

But as I said, yeah, I'm still battling, unfortunately, with the psychological aspect of I don't wanna thrive when loved ones are suffering.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

It feels it feels it feels almost overindulgent by doing these um optional or not mandatory things, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 14:47

It's like it it really is a a a psychological barrier. You know, for the same reason that I didn't go away for the holiday or you know, I could have, you know, he's he's in the hospital, you know, it's not like you know, his needs were being met and all, but I just didn't feel that I wanted to go out vacationing and enjoying myself, you know, even though I feel that I needed it when that opportunity isn't wasn't afforded to him, you know.

SPEAKER_05 15:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:31

Well, can you can you bring it bring it a little in from going on a fabulous vacation and just bring it a little closer to having having a good meal?

SPEAKER_02 15:44

Going just right, just cooking for yourself, just getting a little massage, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 15:55

Well, no, I mean I was I was speaking in in extremes. But and and listen, I'm the first to tell you, you know, as a um a medical person that you have to take care of yourself, your physical and your mental well-being if you want to be a good caregiver. I understand that. I've intellectualized that.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

Yeah, but it's like, you know, that saying um yesterday, I said tomorrow. You know? Yeah. So I'm gonna get to it. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:30

I'm gonna get to it. Okay, you know, okay. But I love that you he that people are, you know, tapping me on the shoulder and um Les, yeah, you taking care of yourself, you know, you're taking care of yourself.

SPEAKER_04 16:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:49

Yeah. What have you eaten today? Are you eating healthfully, you know, like a few little while ago, he says, um, don't stay up too late.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

You know? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 17:05

So you this has you have to stop. You I'm just saying, all of that. So do you. I I got it. I I yes. Yes. Yes, and yes. Yes. And um today I I went a little late. I think I stopped eating at 8 30. Um, so I'm I'm getting back. You're going back to it? I'm going I'm going back to it. And so what are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 17:43

Don't try to get me to make any uh pronouncements that get recorded. So other people it's like, well, she said I remember at this hour that you promised.

SPEAKER_04 17:55

Les, I'm just saying, what what would it look like, right? If everyone who's worried about Omari also started worrying about you because something happened to you. That would be so awful. That would be so awful.

SPEAKER_03 18:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

So I listen, I get it.

SPEAKER_05 18:19

I get it.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Okay. I get it. That's okay. That's what I'm gonna say.

SPEAKER_05 18:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 18:28

All right. I believe you. Yeah. I believe you. Because you're a lunch, you're a lunch bag. You you are a lunch bag aficionado. I I am.

SPEAKER_03 18:39

I just and I have the stuff. I just need time to prepare it. I have been bringing breakfast every day, though.

SPEAKER_04 18:47

Good. And eating it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay. All right. And we're gonna celebrate this the small changes. We're not gonna wait until the big, you know, we're gonna celebrate all the little ones, all the little changes along the way.

SPEAKER_03 19:03

Speaking of little big change. What? I have not had alcohol in 2026.

SPEAKER_05 19:11

Whoa!

SPEAKER_03 19:12

That is huge! Huge, it's huge. Listen, I said I'm gonna make this a dry January, and it wasn't part of a fad or anything like that. I um one, I wanted to exercise some discipline and see, you know. And two, I drink regularly. Often and regularly.

SPEAKER_04 19:39

She didn't say she gets drunk regularly.

SPEAKER_02 19:41

She says she drinks.

SPEAKER_03 19:44

Me and alcohol are very friendly. So I just said, you know, I know alcohol is not the healthiest thing you can do. And I don't, you know, um binge drink or anything like that.

SPEAKER_06 19:59

Right.

SPEAKER_03 19:59

But Um but I just said I want to see what my body feels like without alcohol.

SPEAKER_06 20:06

Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:06

You know, without that relaxing drink at the end of the day. Um ask me how it feels. It feels horrible.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

You said it's horrible. Listen. Is that the word? Listen, it's and it's not my body, it's my mind, you know.

SPEAKER_03 20:25

I understand when they say, and this is serious, about alcoholics um or people or people who are addicted to things. And I'm talking about food addiction, alcohol, drug, or whatever. You really have to take yourself away from people, places, and things because so much of it becomes psychological and reminds you. So when I come in the door after work, let's say, or after coming from the hospital, you know, I sit down on the couch, let's say, and it's like, oh, it would be so nice to have some a glass of wine. You know, when I have fancy glasses and this and that. So it's like it's the ritual of the thing, or I'll make a um, I'll have bourbon, you know, in a nice bourbon glass or whatever, you know, and I haven't like put alcohol away or hidden it or anything like that because I didn't think anything like that was necessary. But I still walk in the door and I'm like, white wine would be nice. And it's like, oh, that's alcohol.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

How many more days, I got that's a big day's day?

SPEAKER_02 21:36

That's a big deal. It's like, and it was January 2nd.

unknown 21:42

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

And I was kind of struggling through the first couple of days, you know, like wait, hold on, wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_03 21:47

And I'll tell you why. Okay. Because I'm like, well, why am I doing this? I'm like, am I just trying to prove something? I'm like, that doesn't make sense. Let me just have alcohol. You know, it's like there's not a good reason, right? But then I remembered that I really do want to know what my body feels like cleaner without, you know, the alcohol toxin.

SPEAKER_04 22:09

Right. Right. You know. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

Well, I know that you see me develop a little tick.

SPEAKER_04 22:17

I know drinks for you are the ritual. You you are a uh, you know, a uh a mixologist. Um, it is a it is a way that you experiment with flavors because you're into cooking and things like that. Right. So it's a big deal. I I I I want to kind of give you a real something else.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Wow. Why didn't you? Because you knew this is what you needed. Yeah, yeah, I think so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

I think so. Okay, well, good point. And this could be the um this the spring that I need to start exercising some other more healthful habits. Yeah. You know, and getting back into the routine of things.

SPEAKER_04 23:06

Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to keep in front of my thinking that it's so much harder to restart after a long, you know, prolonged lapse than it is to get back on the wagon, you know, sooner rather than later. And so um I have been tempted, and it's like, yeah, but you were doing this with ease. This is just no, you this isn't this is this is for your health, and and you you can make you can make better decisions for your health. So um, all right. Well, Les, I am rooting for you. Um I'm gonna for you. I'm gonna stay away because I know if I come up there, I know what I'm gonna want.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Um I'm gonna I'm gonna stay drinking some passion fruit. So good.

Holding Each Other Accountable

SPEAKER_04 24:11

Yes, with um Prosecco, I think. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You have all the ingredients. So delicious, so delicious. I'll catch you February 1st. How about that? We'll drink for that. Okay, I'll be on a little, a little vacay, but um you can uh catch me on virtual late late February. Yeah, we can raise a glass together.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04 24:38

All right, babe. Um thank you for sharing. I hope I didn't I hope I didn't, you know, like put put your business out there. You know, you say that, you say that, and then it's like as soon as like, well, let's talk about it. Oh yeah, that'll be a good one. She she doesn't mention that part. She doesn't mention that part. No, anyway, I do not draw her to these conversations, kicking, kicking and screaming. Um, so anyway, guys, that is it for today's episode.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

So this has been another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn. Brooklyn.