Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn

Ep163 Let’s Talk About Ethical Non‑Monogamy, Sexual Wellness, And Dismantling Shame

• Angella Fraser & Leslie Osei-Tutu • Season 17 • Episode 1

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What if the rules you grew up with about love and loyalty aren’t the only ethical guides for successful relationships? Clutch your pearls this week as Besties Angella and Leslie sit down with Taylor K. Sparks, the 65 yr old Owner of Organic Loven —a holistic sexual health educator, intimacy entrepreneur, and ethical non‑monogamy coach—to unpack how consent, communication and curiosity can transform relationships at any age. 

Taylor’s story moves from corporate training to global sex‑positive education, and she brings that practical lens to everything from how to open a hard conversation to how to choose a lube that actually respects your body.

Book a free clarity call with Taylor: Book Your Free Clarity Call

Taylor’s Products & Services: https://www.organicloven.com/

Taylor’s Book: https://www.organicloven.com/workbook

Follow Taylor’s YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Organicloven


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SPEAKER_02:

Hey, it's Angela. I'm so glad you're here with the Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn yet again. We are bringing an episode this week that Leslie and I thought would require a PSA, a public service announcement, where we give you a heads up on the topic in case you choose not to continue listening. This week and next week's episodes are going to be talking about sexual health, sexual exploration, sexual wellness. And we will not center any ideas around shame. We are committed to exploring the world and challenging the status quo and being inquisitive. And we are bringing a guest whose name is Taylor Sparks. She is a holistic health educator. She has been in both, she's been in a 25-year marriage. The first half of their marriage was ethical monogamy. And the second half and continuing part of their marriage, both she and her husband are exploring ethical non-monogamy. So there will be language in this episode that is consistent with this topic, but it is unusual for the the language that we typically use in our episodes. So we just wanted to, Leslie and I just wanted to give you that heads up. We are um really want to encourage you to listen and um hopefully learn. We've we're learning a lot in this episode as well. And um, but we thought it was proper to give you this heads up before you jump in. Okay? That is it. Please enjoy, and I will be back at the end because this is part one of a part two conversation with uh Taylor Sparks. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00:

Hey Ant.

SPEAKER_02:

Hey Les. How's it going?

SPEAKER_00:

It's going. It's going. It's going well, actually. I don't want to sound like I'm complaining because um it's a good day.

SPEAKER_02:

It's a good day. It's an amazing day for me. I'm looking out at the Pacific Ocean over here, despite the um the drab background that you see here. If I tilt this way, I see the Pacific Ocean because I'm in my beloved Panama visiting again, and um really happy about this recording of our podcast because we have an amazing guest and you guys listen. Let's just introduce the podcast, Les, and then I'm gonna go right into finish up on the listen. Okay, so welcome to another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn. I'm Angelin. That's Leslie, my best friend of almost 50 years. We are two 60 something-year-old black women, and we have decided to live our lives with more joy and to challenge some of the assumptions that we've been living under. And um uh, you know, we're not trying to throw away, we're not trying to throw away the rules, but we are challenging every single one of them. Every single one of them, and we're doing that intentionally. We invite you to do the same. And this conversation today is going to take it to yet another level. Um, Leslie is going to introduce our beautiful guest, and we have a lot to say about this topic. And the topic is um ethical non-monogamy, um, what that is all about. Um, you'll hear what our guest Um Taylor has to say about that, and then we're gonna share some of the ways that we've been feeling about it as we've done the research, as we've decided to bring Taylor to our audience. Yeah, okay, let's take it away.

SPEAKER_00:

So, welcome Taylor Case Fox. She's also known as Mariposa. She's a sex goddess, a holistic sexual health and wellness educator, and an ethical non-monogamy coach with 16 plus years of lived and professional experience, helping individuals, couples, and thruples navigate open relationships with confidence and care. She's a certified in human behavior and holistic aromatherapy. She's known for a culturally informed, radically honest approach to relationship transformation and sexual wellness. Taylor's the founder of organiclovin.com, which is the largest BIPOC-owned online intimacy shop. It features organic intimate body products, body-safe toys, sex positive books, sexual health seminars, and adults-only luxury vacations. She's also the creator of the Ethical Non-monogamy Quiz and author of an African-American Guide to Ethical Non-monography, an accompanying workbook that helps people explore their authentic love style without shame.

SPEAKER_02:

That word.

SPEAKER_00:

Taylor's work has been featured in 300 plus media outlets, including Bustle, Cosmopolitan, Glamour, Men's Health, Oprah Daily, Shape, and Bravo's TV's Married to Medicine. She co-hosts Sisters of Sexuality, Five Shades of Play, now in its sixth season with 100 plus episodes. Wow. With a background in corporate training and disc facilitation, Taylor brings powerful tools for communication, conflict resolution, and connection. And with all of that, I welcome Ms. Taylor Case Box.

SPEAKER_02:

Listen, I have to say something, and um, Taylor, please jump in right after this because I want to just um say something right up front. Um because there's certain reactions people um might have had to your bio, um, some hugely positive, right? And some kind of questioning and all of that stuff. And there's something that I heard you say, which um I think can become the portal through which people can really put aside what they may be thinking that's in the way and just kind of enter into this conversation that we're having with you. And what you said is that I'm not teaching anyone how to be ethically non-monogamous, non-monogamous. I'm here to help them learn how to communicate, how to set and respect others' boundaries, how to have difficult conversations, and how to tell their people, their partners, whomever, what it is that they want to support them, to support people in understanding their choices. And who would not that's everybody that that right there?

SPEAKER_00:

That's everybody.

SPEAKER_02:

That's everybody. And so with that in mind, we can come into and we can absolutely talk about um the parts of your work that involve pleasure and so on. But I really just wanted to kind of get to the core of who you are and um how you started this work coming from a being a corporate trainer. I can definitely see the the through lines in how you kind of get people to understand um difference and understand how they might kind of go inward and things like that. But how did you actually get from that to the work that you do now?

SPEAKER_01:

What and it was a jump in between that and the business prior to my organic loving business. Thank you so much again. Um it it so doing the corporate training for several years, you know, communication, negotiation, conflict resolution, management, and leadership, which I thoroughly enjoy working with, you know, in the in the corporate arena. Um, and I think I was about 40 when I did my first marathon, the first time I ran a marathon. So I ended up launching a company called Skin Care for Athletes. And I developed a line of head-to-toe care, 16-body products for elite endurance athletes. And I did that for several years, but kind of halfway through that, my husband and I decided to open our marriage. And so, uh, and it was my idea to open our marriage. And so I was like, I sat him down. I'm like, I saw this article. And he's like, wait, what? Yeah, we I think we should do this. He's like, You're just trying to trick me so that you can divorce me. Because you want me to say I want to have sex with other women like, no, really. And we're not sure. Yeah, he just thinks I'm just like, wait a minute. This is a setup. Are you recording this? Yeah, I'm not doing this. But um, we opened our marriage and we kind of started with an open marriage. And if you want, I could I could explain the differences, and we kind of backed into the swinging thing, and then years later, um, I also transitioned into polyamory to the dismay of my husband, who was like, We're doing we're doing what now? But from corporate training to the skin care for athletes, once we opened up our relationship, we started going to different adults-only events and adults-only cruises. And then we started to produce our own events. And at one of our very first events, we met a couple, Pepe and Claudia Ghiacci, um, of luxury lifestyle vacations. They were like, you should become affiliates of ours because they were doing luxury events. We became affiliates of theirs, started working with them. And I saw by going through these different cruises that the people who were selling the products had a lot of chemicals in their products. And then LLV asked me, because I developed products, I still have my skincare for athletes company. They said to me, we would love it if you would develop a line of sensual massage oils and body watches for our brand. So it was a private label contract, which I did. And then when we went to launch it, we had no place to sell it because they had a travel agency and I had a skincare for athletes company. So with a little bit of love and support and money from them, I launched Organic Love and starting with their four products. So I'm no longer manufacturing now, I'm a reseller. But I started with their four products, so now I have over 1,600 products and I represent over 230 brands and I ship worldwide. Oh my goodness. So that business started growing much faster than the skincare for athletes business. I'm like, well, I don't have to pretend to be an athlete no more. So I sunseted that business, and I have for 13 or 14 years. I have traveled to, let's see, I probably had been to maybe three of countries before I met them. I've been I've done like 22 cruises, and they also do hotel takeovers. I presented at sex expos, sex conferences, winter conferences. But I've been on like, I think I've been to 32 countries altogether, so maybe 28 countries in the last 13, 14 years, traveling the world and talking about. And so during this time, because of my corporate training background, I know that adults learn best with humor. So I developed my very first seminar called How to Make Good Proceed Better. And people came right into the seminar looking to figure out some new technique. And I'm like, this is why you should use organic nude. And this is why you should use vegan condoms. And they were like, wait, what? So I explained to them the benefits of the um organic ingredients, the downfall of some of the chemicals like you know, glycerin, sucrose, glucose, propylene, glycol, phenoethanol, all which are just horrific for the body, the skin, the vaginal tissues, um, even your skin's condoms are just not good. Um and so we only sell vegan condoms. Um, I curate everything on the site. I vet, you know, the companies as best I can. I mean, I even call them up and go, what's in this product? You know. And um, and so yeah, so I have several seminars now that one starts, you know, based I have uh the care and feeding of your yoni, um, you know, for seminars for men, seminar for women, I have products for men and the whole sexual wellness anchor, if you will, to the business because as great as the sex part is, if you were not well and healthy, and I talked a bit about books, like there's a great book on my site for men called The Penis Book, which is done by Dr. Aaron Spitz. I think he's out of New York or Jersey. He's like one of the top um, oh God, what's the penis doctor called? What's the prostate doctor called?

SPEAKER_02:

Um uh uh penis. Astrology? No, what's the what's the urologist, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Urolist, yes. He's like one of the top urologists in the in the country. And he's got a great book and talks about men being more plant-based and the connection between what they eat and how they work out. So I do a lot of educating, you know, as well as, you know, the fun things, some of the products on the site as well for men with erectile dysfunction, you know, you know, because everyone can't take uh Cialis and Viagra, men who may be having premature ejaculations. So they kind of operate like toys, but they are a wellness product. Same thing for women. There's there's things that's um like the old nut for women who are having uh pain during vaginal sex. Does they call it a a humper bumper? A what? A humper bumper? It's called the O nut. It's literally a piece, it's a round silicone. It comes in like looks like three to four donuts, and you put it on the base of the penis, and it keeps the man from penetrating too deeply when she starts to have, you know, right, right, got it, got it. Of course, it's vaginal moisturizers and then in the educational set. Yeah, we and educational products are women. A lot of women, because of the um the the women's personal care market, they cater to our insecurities. Well, you know, you're turning 40, you're gonna just dry up and blow away. And I keep telling women that that's not the law. It's not the law. Just because you go into perimetaposites doesn't mean you're going to dry. Your vagina's gonna get dry. Your skin may get dry, your hair may get dry, your vagina may be like, hey, listen, I'm good. We read this. So don't say that. And before you go to think, I'm not a proponent of HRT at all, because there are many natural ways that you could increase your juices and and reduce the hot flashes. There are things like makar root, ashrigan, both adaptogens, which help to balance out the uh the hormones in the body, adding things like flaxseed oil. How about having more water and or having more sex? Now you're asking for a sex. You're asking for a lot of care. I'm like, have more sex. They're like, I'm like, if you don't use it, you will lose it. Even if it's with yourself, I'm not saying you have to have it with your partner, but even men, you know, I tell men, especially middle of water, you should be having like 20 or you know, 20 ejaculations a month. Minimum. Minimum. Minimum for their prostate health. They're like, could you call my wife? I'm like, you can do it to yourself like this is therapeutic.

SPEAKER_02:

This is therapeutic. I gotta I gotta ask you because you I do this to Leslie all the time too, because she'll say something and keep going, and then it's like, wait a minute, wait a minute, back up, back up. Right, I'm there that what so what I heard you say was you approached your husband and said to him, and he had you had been married for how many years?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, we were 12 years into our ethnically monogamous marriage when we went away. We went to Hedo with a non-swinger group. We didn't, we knew nothing about ethnical non-monogamy, and we met swims, but we didn't, but after, you know, and I just had the same question a lot of people have like, why would you do that? Like how how are you doing this?

SPEAKER_00:

Where are you doing this? So I just have a question about for clarification. Ethical people who practice ethical non-monogamy, are they the new version for the swingers? Is it the same? Are they synonyms?

SPEAKER_02:

Doesn't sound like it.

SPEAKER_01:

So under the umbrella of ethical non-monogamy, you have open relationships where one or both parties in the relationship may decide to date andor have sexual relationships with others. It could be a don't ask, don't tell type of relationship. And the amount of don't asking and don't telling could depend on the couple, right? Swingers, on currently known as lifestylers, are typically couples who are physically non-monogamous, but emotionally monogamous. That is there for a good time, not a long time. Right? A good time, not a long time. Yeah, there for a good time, not a long time. So they're not looking for romantic relationships, they're looking for, you know, casual sexual fun, even though a lot of swingers do end up having sex with the same people over and over and over again because you know you find something good, you're like, why do we need to go back out there? So a lot of them are more poly than than they like to believe. And then you have um, but single women can be swingers, and single men can be swingers. And even with un even within that, under that umbrella of swinging, you have soft swap, where people might only just kind of go out and and flirt and maybe kiss and but don't do any, you know, do everything short of penetration. Soft swap. Right? And then you have full swap where you do everything including penetration, but they may not kiss. Some people just don't want to kiss.

SPEAKER_02:

But I'm like a whole language. There's a whole there's a whole language, but what I hear you say is that that's all kind of swinger language. Is that so under the umbrella?

SPEAKER_01:

Umbrella is ethical non-monogamy, gotcha, open relationships, yeah, swinging real swinging lifestyle relationships, yeah. Also, under that umbrella is you have um polygamy, which is anybody that has more than one spouse, male or female. Under polygamy, you have polygyny, one husband, more than one wife. Yes. Traditional polygyny, we are familiar with Muslims, Mormons, right? Where the the women are not interacting anymore sexually with each other. More modern polygyny, one husband, more than one wife, where the women might be bisexual, they may also be, you know, romantically involved with each other.

SPEAKER_00:

Not a requirement by I see, I see it happened.

SPEAKER_01:

Maybe I see also under polygyny, you have polyandry, which is you might prefer a dating style, which is one wife with more than one husband.

SPEAKER_02:

Got it. Okay. I can't fantastic. But but so so is there a female-centered what we know is polygamy?

SPEAKER_01:

Polyandry.

SPEAKER_02:

Polyandry one wife, more than one husband.

SPEAKER_01:

I see.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, that's your preferred.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So can you take us back because you know more than that? Yeah, there's another, okay, yes. Wait, there's another one.

SPEAKER_01:

Wait, there's more. There's more, and then you have Amory. Polyamory, which is to have more than one romantic relationship at the same time with all parties knowing and consenting. So no one may not be married in polyamory. They're just romantic relationships. Polyanderie and and polygyny are married. You do have to be legally married to one of the partners. Got it, got it, got it.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01:

You cannot, of course, you know, it's you cannot be legally married to more than one person in this country, but you know, right. In order for it to fall under that. So all of that, and there are several, I mean, paying a prostitute is non-monogamy. But it's commerce, it's it's a pay for play. But that is a type of non-cheating is non-monogamy, but it's not ethical.

SPEAKER_00:

Correct. Exactly. What I heard about said, wait a minute, non-monogamy is old as the hills. It's always been going on. People just lie around.

SPEAKER_01:

And people keep going, but God said, I'm like, do you realize that in the Bible? And I have a um a talk on my on my YouTube channel about it, and I I don't have it to memory, but I can give you the particular particular scriptures. Monogamy was not deemed the the way to love by God. That was done by the Romans. Because the Romans controlled the church. And so we were always communal for thousands and millions and millions of years. But as we started to form cities and form communities and towns and such, that is when people were like, you know, even when we first even had communities, women still would have sex with more than one man, and men would have sex with more because there was no romance, love, and and monogamy as we know it today has only been this way the most recent couple of hundred years.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Right? So if you can look at anyone's goals, history of marriage, marriage was a contract.

SPEAKER_02:

It was a contract, yes.

SPEAKER_01:

It was a contract. Your mother and your mother and dad had this beautiful daughter, yes, and 600 cows and 200 acres of land, and the neighbor had this amazing son with 400 cows and 1200 acres of land, and when the two families merged, yes, to keep it. You became more powerful in that particular community. Right. You understand? So it was a contract. You were lucky if love came. Nobody cared if your husband slept with the milkmaid, and you your passion was not centered on your marriage. You had a contract to have children to work the land, and if you you know had a business to do that, to do that business, you might have loved the stable boy, Leslie.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Your family be like, listen, I'm sure I have to love stable boys. You know, he's great, but this man right here, this is your last. This is the children you were going to have. So when the Romans were running, started running things, and they were conquering cities, they were like, listen, I cannot have you to the men all over the country. I need you to have one line of inheritance. Because when you die, I need to know who gets what.

unknown:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

So you can't have three, four, five wives. You can have three, four, five mistresses, one line, these children are legitimate children. You see. So even if you look in the Bible, God never, ever, ever condemned non-monogamy. There are several men, both Old and New Testament, that had more than one wife, they had more than one concubine. So God never says, people, well, what about adultery? Well, adultery was about property because women were property. But it wasn't about you cannot love someone else and you know, do not cover somebody else because you're not supposed to steal somebody's car. So it had nothing to do with you couldn't have sex and love. Was like, that is my property, but it had nothing to do with love and romance and either too. Nowhere in any Bible, the Jewish Bible, the Quran is monogamy condemned. Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Listen, y'all, you need to do do your do your research. This is new information to many of us. And I I kind of um noted the word shame before when Taylor said it, because there's so much shame that is wrapped around the way that we we practice um um sex and love. And that is a word that's always been something that I like was always kind of poking at because it was like it's such a powerful thing, this shame thing. And I have to tell you, Taylor, Leslie's gonna laugh at this. When I really started to push against this idea of shame is when I realized the clitoris, this thing that held so much shame for me and so many girls. Um, even the way that we speak of it, we say clit, like it's this little thing that this part of our body was created solely for pleasure by the creator. That just became this kind of scratching at the idea of shame and how shame is imposed on our bodies.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

Um and it's created something, yes, and why it's something that we need to investigate. Yeah, exactly. Go ahead. No, no, no. I that's kind of what what I wanted to kind of point out here that these these things that um Taylor is talking about, we really need to, we we need to look at them. We need to look at them because we don't, it is not okay, and we're all 60-something year old women here. So I'm speaking to the older women crowd. It is not okay to just keep going in the things that we believe to be true that may not be true. That's true. Especially when they carry this heaviness and they kind of um stifle. And they're binding.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, they bind us in doctrine and in tradition. And and so often, and that's why, you know, when we were discussing this earlier, is that is there any of this language that's off limits? For 60-something year old women, why should there be any more limits? Or at what age is it okay to take the limits off? At what age? When 64 is not the age, is it 70? Is it 75? At what point of the 19th century? I believe it's 21.

SPEAKER_01:

I believe it's 21.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. Hey, we hope you've enjoyed part one with Taylor Sparks, and that you have a lot of, ooh, a lot of questions. You know, we like to shake things up. We do think that that is uh a part of what our joy journey demands of us. And so um just a quick summary of what we're gonna be covering in part two. You're gonna be learning about Taylor's catch and release dating process, um, how to unlearn some of the pressures of monogamy, um, radical honesty. Um Taylor is gonna be teaching us about uh privacy versus secrecy, about authentic versus honesty, um, authenticity versus versus honesty, um, just kind of really giving us some understanding of how to understand ourselves better and then use that understanding to be better communicators with our partners. I almost forgot to mention Taylor has given us a discount code for you. If you use Boomer 15, you get 15% off at Taylor's website, which is organiclovin.com. That is O R G A N I C L O V E Nancy dot com. Boomer 15 for 15% off products on her website. Thanks.

Contributor

Angella Fraser

Co-host
Contributor

Leslie Osei-Tutu

Co-host