Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn

Ep164 Can one partner be everything? Part 2 with Ethical Non-Monogamy Coach Taylor K. Sparks

• Angella Fraser & Leslie Osei-Tutu • Season 17 • Episode 2

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Ready to rethink the intimacy rules you didn’t know you were following? The Besties continue their conversation with ethical non-monogamy coach Taylor Sparks for a candid, laugh-out-loud and deeply practical tour through radical honesty, jealousy management and the real difference between privacy and secrecy. From first-date filters to long-term agreements, Taylor shows how to trade guesswork for clarity and build relationships that fit real life, not fantasy.

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SPEAKER_03:

Okay guys, welcome to part two of our two-part series with Taylor Sparks talking about how to be better communicators about our sexual needs and in particular around the practices involving ethical non-monogamy. This week we are going to be touching on topics such as dating younger men, Taylor's catch and release dating process, how Taylor coaches, and whom she coaches. We're going to be learning about radical honesty and privacy versus secrecy. All of these are helpful in understanding ourselves and then understanding our partners that much better. We hope you enjoy this episode. We do want to again make you aware that there will be language that shows that is consistent with the topic. And it's language that does not center our shame around the topic. We're letting go some of these weight, some of this weight that we carry around our sexuality. We're learning how to do this better. We're not experts, Leslie and I, but we are experts in our journey. Taylor has given us a discount code for you. If you use Boomer 15, you get 15% off at Taylor's website, which is organiclovin.com. That is O-R-G-A-N-I-C L-O-V-E-N. It's a nancy.com. Boomer 15 for 15% off products on her website. We hope you enjoy this episode. Let us know what you think, and we'll talk to you next time. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_01:

And feelings. I was saying to Ange, um we were talking a few days ago about this recording, and I said, you know, this is gonna be weird for me, Ange, because I'm approved. That's what I said. I'm approved. You know, I don't even know if that's still it's funny.

SPEAKER_03:

We've we flipped our because I was more reserved when I was younger, and Leslie out there. And and it's kind of like we flip now. I'm like challenging everything.

SPEAKER_00:

And Leslie, and but Leslie, you you're only approved because you've decided to be. Well, that's true.

SPEAKER_01:

And and is it coming from me, my behavior or my ideology? Is it coming from Leslie? Or is it coming from external? That is something that's all of that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. It's it's all it's all of it, but but ultimately, decision is yours. It's almost like that, like you said, at this seasoned age, at this grown age, and I've been this way, because people are like, well, when did you become open? I'm like, I've always been open. Yeah, I've always challenged, I haven't been like ethically nominated, but I've always been open to discovering and figuring out. And one of my good friends, Paris, Miss Cheryl Blair, I remember she did a uh workshop called, we did a live on Facebook, her seminar called God is in the orgasms. I thought people's heads was gonna spin. What do you you you can't say that? No, God made sex.

SPEAKER_01:

Sex is good. What do you mean? And that's something that you have been saying for years. God is in the orgasms.

SPEAKER_00:

Because what do you say when you have an orgasm?

SPEAKER_04:

Oh god.

SPEAKER_00:

Except for when to me, they say, oh god, it's say it again, oh goddess.

SPEAKER_03:

Say it again. I think that this is the kind of conversation, this is the kind of um inquiry that we should all be doing at some point in our lives in order to understand ourselves better. This isn't about the other person, it's not about the other, at least in my experience. It it is coming from this place within me of why do I think this way? Or or um, this feels kind of right to me. Why is it wrong? Right? Why is it wrong if it feels right? Or this part of my body feels this way, who says it's wrong to feel that way. So I've been shedding um a lot of this, and it has allowed love in a very kind of uncommon way for me to come in, but it started with me. It didn't start with, oh, I want this other person. Do you know what I mean? It came from who am I? This is what I actually said to my therapist a couple years ago. I said, um, who am I? I want to be her. That is that was my place of of of knowing that there was something that was um creating some dissonance in me that I wanted to figure out. And I I made the commitment to, right? And then that brought partnering the way that I wanted it. It became really clear to me. But it started with this investigation of who I am. Yeah, you know what I mean? And that's kind of what I'm hearing.

SPEAKER_00:

When now when not now done tomorrow, it's not promised to us. And I see, you know, some women, not all women, but some women who won't date, you know, who are our age, who won't date younger men. Right. And first of all, I'm like, well, you ain't gotta keep them. But why are you not like so? I I, you know, I'm 65. I do have a cutoff. My cutoff is 40. Okay. Right. Okay, yes. At the bottom. At the top, it's kind of like 50-ish.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Because you found that that's about the age that well, because more so in America than I found here in Europe, but I find a lot of men and their 50s stop taking care of themselves. And I'm not gonna be with a man who's not taking care of them. I take care of myself.

unknown:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

And if I want a man who knows how to put himself first. Because if you're not taking care of you, how can I, how can I think you're gonna take care of me if something happens to me? That's right, if you're running around here with your belly sitting on your damn lap, and you, I'm like, I'm like, no, I am not. I'm I can get my chunky ass up and go to the gym. Get your chunky ass up and go to the goddamn gym too. Or you guys have absolutely no reason. Listen, I'm writing this down.

SPEAKER_01:

I want to mask and those who take care of his.

SPEAKER_00:

I have told many a man with a belly, you realize, because he, I heard this heard this of Dr. Oz years ago, for every either 20 or 25 pounds a man loses, he gains an inch back on the size of the length of his pants. Oh, it's old, that's right. I'm like, listen. So I find men in their 40s to be in better shape and taking care of themselves. I am a sex goddess, I'm a highly sexual woman. And you and then you ain't gonna die on top of me either. So get it together.

SPEAKER_01:

You are not how are your coronaries? That's the 15-minute over coffee.

SPEAKER_00:

That's what I'm saying. That's my veting. How's your how's your health? How's my health? Listen, I will tell you in my meet and greets, I remember I had a meet and greet years ago with a guy, and he was talking about his deviated septum, and his his couple of his vertebrae were were uh used. I looked in him dead in the eye and I said, We we can't have sex, you're gonna die. You're not gonna be able to handle this. You are going to die. Listen, you're gonna die. I wish you were not ready for me. You you were not ready for me, you were gonna die. And I I sent him, I released him to the wild with my catch and least program. You need to go find you a nice little girl who don't do nothing and don't work out. I'm I'm not the one.

SPEAKER_03:

Wait, so tell us about this dating thing that yes, yes, yes, you're doing now.

SPEAKER_00:

So I so I, you know, a lot of people keep going, don't go on the I'm like, the apps are absolutely the best.

SPEAKER_03:

Apps have worked for me.

SPEAKER_00:

The apps are the best because 60% of the people on the apps are men. And it's a numbers game, right? So I have my little program called the Catch and Release Program. So you meet with you match with the guy on the app. Yeah, you get your top five or ten questions answered, like, who do you belong to? You know, like, you know, what are you looking for? Why are you here? Yeah, what whatever's important to you. And if it's a good, then you meet for a coffee, not a day. And I know some people are like, I'm not getting dressed up for a coffee. Don't get that dressed up. Just put on some tears and a t-shirt and a lip. A little lipstick, that's all you need. Give yourself 30 minutes to an hour. Okay. Get to your other questions that are important to you, answer it. What are you looking for? Ask the ask again. Who do you belong to? If you and I are walking down the street holding hands, who's gonna walk up and be like, that's my man? Who do you belong to? Okay, ask it six different ways.

SPEAKER_04:

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you got kids? Do you want kids? Do you want a dog? Do you got a cat? Have you traveled? Because if you don't got no passport, I am not your girlfriend. You're not gonna Miami and Las Vegas me to death like me. And you need a you need to either clear or just a valid passport and you can actually leave the country. Not a passport that expired three years ago, or you got$20,000 in child and you can't go nowhere. Can you spell passport? Right. But these are real. These are my questions. So, you know, and then you know, the whole thing. So if it's a a good connection and we're vibing and all that, that's the catch. Now we can set a proper date, right? Okay, and sometimes a few occasions the meet and greet has gone right into a date. It just started for an hour, and then we were together for five or six hours and we had dinner, and it was good.

SPEAKER_04:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And but if it's not a match, I release them to the wild. I say thank you and I say goodbye. And I and I have met some guys that we I have met so many wonderful men. They just weren't wonderful for me. You know, but I've gotten guys who became my salsa dancing partners or travel partners. There's nothing intimate. We have just become, yeah, I've got guys who's like, I want to look at your website. You know, I'm a marketing expert. I'm like, yes, please.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes, oh, I would love to.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you so much. And it's it. At the very least, I need a friend. But I'm not looking for the one. So I'm never disappointed that these meetings don't want to. Because you're not the one. I don't care. Next. Right, right.

SPEAKER_03:

Wow.

SPEAKER_00:

And if you just keep it at next, next, next, you will find two or three or four or five men that are just great. You know, my my group, my cousin, my uh sister always says, girls gotta eat, so go out and have a dinner.

SPEAKER_03:

Wait, so you said you get the you you what you catch then. For you, it's it's several that um for someone else who's looking for the one, they want to find all those things in a single person.

SPEAKER_00:

Nobody can. Nobody. No one person is gonna be able to give you everything. Now, you can get most of your things, yes, but what's most important to you is what you're looking for. The most important thing. Because those of us, I mean, I was married 25 years, you know, he checked, you know, eight out of eight out of the ten boxes was great. It was it was good enough. It was more than more than good enough, right? Eight out of the ten boxes. But a lot of times in monogamy, you know, we keep pressuring our partner to do and fulfill all of these buckets, and they cannot, right? And then sometimes because they cannot, that leads to divorce, and we threw out the entire relationship. And I'm like, you don't need to throw out the entire relationship. Find somebody else that can take care of these other two things or three things for you.

SPEAKER_03:

So what do you think there was about your husband? Because since you broached the topic to him, what do you think it was about him that, or not about necessarily him alone, but what he saw in you that made him okay with looking into this further with you versus I'm I'm I'm leaving of being a deal breaker. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I think well, that's well, because when we got married, we were in our early 30s, and even though not knowing anything about ethical non monogamy, I was like, listen, I am not clocking you. I don't care what time you come home, I just ask if you can come home before the sun comes up. Because you, you know, do whatever you need to do. You know, um, if you feel like you need to do anything, yeah, you I don't want to hear about it, I don't want to know about it. And if you bring me so much as a common cold to this house, I'm killing a sleep.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm gonna go out and use it. Right now, with that, go out there and bring me out there and have a good time. So he already knew that.

SPEAKER_00:

So by the time 12 years in, yes, okay, and I I brought this up, I he was like, Well, I know she's not jealous, and so I know she has no insecurity. Right, right, and might not be a bad idea have a little something something on the side with permission. I think it was more about what he wanted than it wasn't about me. He was like, wait a minute, I could. So you're saying we could and you okay with that? Is this a trick question? We've got the people. We should try it. But we did not initially do the swinging thing. We initially did the open thing, we did everything separate.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00:

So it wasn't don't ask, don't tell. We knew, you know, we said, we had, oh my god. I think we had two, three hundred, we at least 150 boundaries, right? Like you could not do anything with anybody in the entire state of North Carolina. The whole state was off limits.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00:

The whole state.

SPEAKER_03:

That there but they're a lot of co-workers.

SPEAKER_01:

So it had the world. Yeah, so it had to be a remote situation, not that nobody coming to a house.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. No friends, no co-workers, no, no, no in-laws, um, no hotel staff, because we both were traveling for work at the time. Right. Right, you know, so we have you know, um, no spending the night, no falling in love, um, always used protection. And for some reason, you only had an hour. I I don't know where the time learning came from. But by the time we got, girl, we had so many boundaries. By the time we got to the end, I think the only boundaries we had remaining was like, you know, no animals and no children.

SPEAKER_03:

Like okay, but here's what I'm hearing in all of that, right? What I'm hearing is this high level of communication between you and your husband. But she's a communicator.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, we worked on the we had to, we had to unlearn the monogamy. See, because in monogamy, you really don't have to say everything.

SPEAKER_04:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

You could just be agitated about something or be a little jealous or don't like the way he looks, and you just keep the peace. Yeah. I'm just gonna keep that to myself.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, you got somebody flirting with you at work. Yes. You ain't gonna tell you you got somebody flirting at you at work, or the girl at the grocery store was flirting at you, wanting to give you her number. You're not gonna bring that home and tell nobody that because why? Right. You so you learn not to be radically honest. And this is what I work when I'm working with clients, teaching them to say what is it that you want? Tell your partner because we're afraid to hurt our partner's feelings.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Tell your own.

SPEAKER_03:

We call that love though. That's what you know, that's what love feels like is that we we we don't want to hurt the other's feelings, so we hold it, we hold it in a shit to them, but you know, we don't talk about it now.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Right. They just won't know, so it's all so it's all in your head, right? Right. But that that could lead to, for some people, you know, resentment. Like, why can't I just, you know, women are like, don't be looking at that woman, don't be looking at her boobs. Like, well, first of all, she's a 42 double triple D. She can't hide that under a potato sack. Like, why do you care? I have to care about. Yeah, my former business cards, when I had my skincare for athletes company, had a a brother on there, beautiful body. He was in mosquitoes and a swim trunk and a hoodie.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I remember I was at a um networking event. I gave it to a sister. She looked at the card and said, I can't, I can't bring that home. I'm like, why? My husband would be upset. I'm like, it's a plastic card. It's a photo. Wow. I didn't give you the man. Yeah. There's no scratch and sniff or anything. But we we but we somehow think that this type of insecurity and jealousy means love, and that comes from the movies and the romantic movies. Yeah, and I'm like, yeah, I gave my husband one year for Christmas um a framed art piece of a of a black woman. She was she was the picture was of her from the back, naked. She just had a towel hanging like over the cracker behind. And my daughter must have been 10. She's like, Well, why did you give dad a a picture of a naked woman money? I said, Well, one, your daddy likes naked women.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Good answer.

SPEAKER_03:

And for two, it's in our bedroom.

SPEAKER_00:

It's it's it's a beautiful woman. And two, it's in our bedroom and it's encouraging for him.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Did you ever hear? Oh, wait, I just gotta tell you this real quick. Oh my god. Years and years and years ago, there was a there was a joke. There's three elderly women went out shopping for pajamas, and you know, you come out the dressing room, and the one comes out with this sheer neglige on. Her friends look at her and go, Well, girl, you know, you ain't, you know, you're too old to be wearing something like that. She put her hips, hands on her hips, and she smiled. She said, When you're the only naked woman in the room, it don't matter.

SPEAKER_01:

That thing right there. That part.

SPEAKER_00:

It don't matter.

SPEAKER_01:

We're so concerned about, you know, my boobs and hold your now.

SPEAKER_00:

Mine are racing to my knees. I don't know which one's gonna get there first, the left or the right, the left or the right. It's like when I'm the only naked woman in the room, what's she gonna be like? I don't I don't want that. Oh, this is the only pussy in the room.

SPEAKER_03:

I said you get it in a negative.

SPEAKER_01:

I what do you think about it? I want to hear about your coaching sessions because what I would love to know is we bring so much of ourselves to relationships, you know, maladaptive thoughts and behaviors. And jealousy is huge. Um, it's huge. I know I say that I've never been a jealous person. I've been with people who were jealous and insecure. I've never been that way. Maybe it was overconfidenced. That was just that's that's just not my ministry. So I've had other issues, obviously. But my fiance and I, we look at beautiful women and I say, like, oh, isn't she beautiful? Look at her. Like, like, you know, which would would you like to see me wear that? Or you know what I mean? It's like he is not going home with her. He put the ring on my card. It's encouraging to them because it does, because he's going home with you.

SPEAKER_00:

He's thinking about her, like, think about her.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I used to tell my boy to me. It's ridiculous, you know, that that we that that woman would be afraid to bring her card home. Does her husband not does he not think that there are other men on this world, on this earth?

SPEAKER_00:

We perpetrate that, but we perpetrate that the insecurity by by doing by doing things like that instead of saying to him, stop being ridiculous. Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Stop being ridiculous. It's a card. I've married you.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, but here's what happens. Here's what I think is the really ugly dance that happens between people oftentimes is that you don't the it's it's like the the one person says, Oh, that I'm bothered by that. And then the other said, well, I'm bothered by that because you were bothered by me doing that. Do you know what I mean? Then it becomes this this back and forth. And so it's like the back and forth. It's stopping the back and forth. Stopping the back. Right? Because tell us what happens in coaching.

SPEAKER_00:

So first of all, how did having people understand? I mean, everybody's responsible for their own emotions and their own their own happiness, right?

SPEAKER_04:

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00:

And and their own bullshit, because we all bring our own bullshit to the table. So get into the root of the jealousy. Where did it start? Where did it come from? How many of us, us, and then when I'm talking to my clients, who are your examples of good relationships? What relationships have you admired that are solid and secure? And a lot of people don't have any examples at all. All they have is what they've seen on TV, the Real Housewives of Atlanta and Jersey, the urban novels. They have no experience of what a solid, secure relationship looks like. So find so taking off the layers, this is even before we even get to ethical nominatomy. We have to get to the root of who we are. So that's where peeling back the lay. Why are you jealous? What makes you jealous? What are you afraid of?

SPEAKER_01:

What are you afraid of?

SPEAKER_00:

Right? Are you afraid you are going to lose this person? Because you no one can steal someone that does not want to go. And you cannot make someone stay that is ready to leave.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, make a because it's not a it's not a monogamy or non-monogamy thing, because monogamous people meet people at work and at the bus stop and at the gym and leave their partner and go with somebody else all of the time. All the time. Because 54% of monogamous marriages end in divorce. Nobody says, oh my God, monogamy is horrible. I'm not doing that. No. So it's not that. So trying to figure out where's the jealousy coming from, I have exercises and tools that, you know, there's a lot of journaling and prompting, and things to keep them from triggering themselves. Like, why are you going through the phone? What are you looking for? Because when you look for shit, you find it. But then when you find it, now you're triggered. So why are you doing the things to trigger yourself? Yeah. Secondly, emotional management. When you feel it rising up in yourself, you can stop it, right? Because when jealousy starts to rise up, the the physiological thing that happens to the body is kind of the flight, uh, freeze, flight, or flight. Flight or flight.

SPEAKER_01:

Fight or flight. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Fight, flight, or freeze, excuse me. And you can feel it in the body. So now you have to come up with self-soothing techniques. Maybe your own mantra. The silk the simple one is I can stand this. I can stand to know the fact that my partner is kissing another person. I can stand the fact to know that they, that they might love another person. We share our partners all the time. We share them with children. And I have had, you know, some clients where they're even jealous of maybe they're the second wife. They're jealous of their, you know, his first children, his first set of children. Retroactive jealousy. I'm jealous of the former husband, jealous of the former wife, right? You're pulling shit out of the past. Like, stop it. And so there's a lot of, there's a lot of, you can control yourself. Don't trigger yourself. And then for the partner of the jealous person, you have one or two things that happens. They're either the partner that jumps through the hoops, okay, I'm gonna stop doing that, I'm gonna stop doing that, I'm gonna stop doing that. So that just reinforces the jealousy. And it never works.

SPEAKER_01:

It doesn't work.

SPEAKER_00:

And it never works, so they just keep, you keep jumping through the hoops like a trained poodle every time they get upset, as opposed to saying to them, I see you're upset, how can I support you in this? But I'm not gonna stop doing X, Y, and Z because you can control this behavior. You are just choosing not to.

unknown:

Wow.

SPEAKER_00:

Because if you, and I've told this to people, if you That's a mic drop right there. Yeah, you're choosing not to if you cannot choose it, then I'm gonna refer you to a psychologist because I stay in my lane. I don't do therapy.

SPEAKER_04:

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm a coach. Therapy and counseling, as you know, helps people to, you know, uncover and recover from current or past traumas. I help people to discover what is it that you want. Tell your partner what you want. So the emotional management part is the biggest piece because you can't get from here to there, from non-monogamy to monogamy, if you were still dealing with issues like jealousy. You can't be radically honest.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Right? You can't say to your partner, yes. The six foot five guy with the tattoos, yes, I want him to bend me over the couch. I won't keep him, just want to be bent over for a little while. I'm coming home to you in a little bit.

SPEAKER_01:

Got one hour.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I had to, I know, listen, I had to get rid of the one hour because I didn't, I think, and like the swimming and like all of it went out the window at some point. Because at some point you start to realize why it you're not going anywhere.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah. But you know what I mean. No one can steal someone that doesn't want to go. What I love about the way that you and your husband approached it though, is that you put everything that was in the way of moving forward. And then as you move forward, you open those things up. But you would never have started if you didn't have all of these rules that you could work together. To feel safe. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00:

You know, you felt safe and heard. You do it to protect the relationship, and you soon realize there's nothing to protect.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Because no one's going anywhere, no one's going to, like I said, we have heard or known men who've had a mistress for 20 years. Yes. Mistress got too. You better leave your wife. He ain't leaving her. He's like, I love you, and I love, I'm gonna tell her. I don't care, tell her. I'm not going. I'm leaving, I'm with you and I'm with her too.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

We've known or heard about women who've left their husband nine months pregnant. They help with them.

SPEAKER_03:

It's a part of so much a part of the culture that I know. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

You cannot keep somebody that that that is ready to go. So the real challenge is dealing with the things you have going on in a relationship, learning to be radically honest, learning to uh control your emotions, learning to set and respect other people's boundaries. You know, like I said, going through the phone, going through like what are you looking for? There's a difference between privacy and secrecy. So if your partner has a partner and you know they have a partner or they're going to see somebody else, yeah, you know, but there's some things that they're doing together that really is none of your business, and that could be challenging.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, hold on. Yeah, between privacy and secrecy. Unpack that a little bit for me, please.

SPEAKER_00:

So we we're all autonomous, we have the right to our privacy, like what's in your phone, maybe what's in your bank account. Secrecy is something that you keep from me that literally could damage or do something or has an impact on our relationship. Okay, right? So uh there was um there was a client years and years ago. He was married, yes, and he had a girlfriend. Everybody knew they were they were uh they were polyamorous, right? So that was all fine. And then he had another girlfriend he had started dating. Everybody knew that was fine. Well, she got pregnant, the second girlfriend, and he didn't tell the wife or the girlfriend initially, because he's like, that's our privacy. And when by the time I got to them, this was all resolved because she ended up um miscarrying. But I'm like, that was incorrect because her having the baby impact her other relationships. Yes, okay. So that is not a private thing.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_00:

That's every because so it's not like she got a puppy at the house. You can keep that private because don't that don't impact the, but if it impacts everybody else in the room that you have a relationship with, then now you're holding secrets. If you have unprotected sex when the rule, the boundary is we all have protected sex, and you catch something and give something to somebody, see that that secret is impacting our relationship. So you have, yeah, you have the right to your privacy. I don't need to know what positions you all, you know, are doing. I don't need to know how much money she makes. Yeah, I that that's her privacy.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Because it doesn't impact our relationship. So helping people understand where to be uh radically honest, where to be, you know, to how to authentic um communicate authentically, right? Um, and I'll give you an example of uh communicating authentically because there's honest communication, yes, authentic communication.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

So at one point I had my husband and three boyfriends. Just need three new ones. Lovely. Okay, I'm back. And one of my boyfriends had a husband, had a husband, excuse me. One of my boyfriends had a wife, married 18 years. I knew her, she knew me. Because I, first of all, I'm no one's secret. If we're dating and you have a partner, I need to meet this partner and she needs to know I exist. She has my number, I have your number. We may not be, because I'm not bisexual, so we may not be intimate, but we we are metamores.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Metamores are polyamorous words. The metamore is the lover of my lover. My lover's partner is mine. Okay. Well, anyway, I like that. So when we first said they had been married 18 years, when we first started dating, and by the time we started dating, I was already at the spending the night with my partner's point and my relationships. And we had been dating a few months. I said, hey, have you, you know, I'd be great if we could spend the night out. He goes, I've never spent the night out. I'm like, you all been open your entire marriage, 18 years, and you've never he's ever came up. I'm like, well, at some point. So about six months in, there was a uh king party coming up, and I said, Talk to your wife. To my guy, my husband, and let's go to this party and let's get a hotel room and let's spend the night. He goes, I will go talk to her. He comes back the next day, and he goes, She said yes. What do you mean? She said yes. No, no, no, no. What did you say exactly? You've never spent the night on the 15 years and she just said yes. What did you say exactly? So I told her that you know, Mary Poster and I are going to this party, which is in the city between both of our towns. The party's gonna run late. It's gonna move over to the hotel, and then, you know, I'll be home in the morning. And you know, Mariposter, you know how she is, you know, she's you know, she's such a dominant. We're probably gonna start traveling with her, so we just might as well kind of get this over it because you know. I'm like, whoa, what now? Was he honest? Yes, we're going to the party.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm spending the night.

SPEAKER_00:

Was he authentic? Not really, because the party's not moving to the hotel. He and I are going to the hotel. He and I are getting a hotel room. He and I are spending. I mean, we we might invite some people, but he and I are spending the night.

SPEAKER_03:

Right. Right. So he was he was honest. Right, right.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

But he wasn't honest. And he knew, he knew that he was holding some some parts of that story back.

SPEAKER_00:

And people think in disclosure and lying are not the same thing, but it feels the same in the in the gut. Yeah. Yeah. It feels the same in the gut, but it's not the same because lying is deceit. Withholding is withholding. So I sent him back. I said, you go back over to that wife of Jews, and you tell her.

SPEAKER_01:

You did not do this properly.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. You tell her, not only do I want to spend the night with you, but that you want to spend the night with me. Because now, one, we can find out what is she ready for this? And two, if she's not ready for this, you can now have a conversation and she will have the opportunity to deal with her emotions. See, when we're trying to protect our partners, we are really stunting their growth.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, we're saying that they're not adults. That's what we're saying. Thanking that.

SPEAKER_00:

We're stunting their growth because we're not giving them the opportunity to walk through this emotion, to give you their fears, or may not be his emission, said fine, but you never gave full disclosure. So he went back to her, told her, I said, not only you got to act tell her that you want to spend the night with her, I mean with me, excuse me, or you need to tell me, Miracles, I don't want to spend a night with you. And then I gotta have my conversation and deal with my emotions.

SPEAKER_01:

Right, right. But you need to tell everybody. This Wednesday, we've circled back to honesty. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00:

That authentic that authentic, that radical honesty and authentic communication. So he went back to her. She's like, I'm not ready. And he came back because she, I said, then we won't do it.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, well, there was like there was no present. I mean, there'll be another opportunity. And it was almost, it was like a year into us re uh dating that an opportunity came up for me to work in Atlanta for the weekend. And he came for the whole weekend. It wasn't just one night, it was two. You know? And you know, we called, he landed, I landed, we called her on a you know, WhatsApp video. Hey girl, hey, how you doing? And we checked in over the weekend. I said, just answer whatever questions because she was like, So are you guys gonna have separate rooms? He's like, yeah, separate rooms. He was like, we ain't getting we on the same bed and we're gonna be doing the do all weekend.

SPEAKER_03:

So so what and so what you're telling, what you're telling everyone, our listeners, is that through radical honesty, this can be an option for you if you choose this. It is not made up, it is not kind of um fairy tale, it's not possible, it's not seedy, it's mature. It's actually the opposite of some of these things that are a part of the um unethical bag of tricks. Right. It's not much more important. Tell me more, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Learning to do it in your monogamous relationship. It's not about being so it's like that. I don't teach people how to be ethically non-monogamous. I teach people how to communicate authentically. Because once you do that, then you can say, so how do we now get into ethical non-monogamy? But you gotta get yourself and your feelings and your insecurity and your ability to tell the truth and not expect your partner to satisfy 100% of your needs. Yeah, you gotta let that come.

SPEAKER_01:

Be resentful when they cannot. But I hear your coaching as valuable for monogamous and non-monogamous couples. I mean, this is couple work. We're not couple. This is this is work, communication work between people. I'm thinking about me and my partner. You know, we communicate very well, but obviously there's always room for improvement.

SPEAKER_02:

For sure.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, there's always room for improvement. Did you mean? And who knows? I mean, we're always withholding things. I let me speak for myself. I'm withholding things for, you know, concern. How is he gonna take it? He knows I'm crazy. I don't want to come out too crazy right now. You know, all of these things. Wow.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, some of the clients do come to me for the sexual aspect of their relationship. So they'll book a 90-minute session. It's like, so my wife was raised very religious. I was not. We're having challenges, you know, in the bedroom. I'd like her to be more open to trying new things. So they will book time with me to help them work. So finding out why do you feel that way? What happened? Who told you? And I think as grown women, we forget until we have daughters of our own, that our mothers, and when we were in our teens, don't you be out there with them boys, you keep them legs closed. They told us that to protect us, yeah, so that we were not, you know, taken advantage of by young boys, by older men, that we were not putting ourselves in positions and of harm.

SPEAKER_04:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

But now we're 40 something and we're still keeping our legs closed and not, you know, not giving a blowjob to our husband. Like, well, that's your husband. What do you mean if I was giving me blown? Your girl, your mama said that when you were 13. She didn't mean you forever. You're married now.

SPEAKER_03:

Those people, those people that she was protecting you from were also socialized in a certain way that, yes, if someone acts this way, you have every right to treat them that way. That is over there. That is over there.

SPEAKER_00:

That's not a home.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

But but you have to think about it, during the days of slavery, yeah, right, our mothers had to chastise, don't be out there like some Jezebel because she was trying to protect us from getting taken advantage of by the boys on the plantation, the plantation owner, the slaves. Yeah, there were so many predators. They had that had the predators, so that has been passed down epigenetically to our daughters to give us shame. Black people have never had the, and black women especially, we've never had the sexual freedom of white women and white men.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, because we had to protect.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. It could get you so black impregnate. Sure, sure. All of that. So we have to, so I, you know, I um I was unmarried to medicine. That episode is, you know, there was the couple to treat at the end of the season. And one of the questions I asked the that crew was, how many of you here have ever asked your partner what kind of sex they enjoy? And the group of people there were between 25 days married and 25 years. Nobody had ever asked their partner what kind of sex do they enjoy. And I'm like, What? Why why not? Wow. I had a couple who the wife was more religious, and I and I said to her, okay, you guys have been married how long? They've been married, I don't know, 12 years. They had a couple of kids. I said, So would you say your husband is a good husband? Yeah. He works, put money in the bank, yeah. Does he does he buy you nice things, take you on trips? Yeah, help with the kids. Yes. Does he beat you? No. Has he ever cheated on you? No, called you out your name? No. So he's checking all the boxes, yeah. And then I said to her, Then you should be on your knees talking with a heartfelt of gratitude. The man said, Can I refer you to my boy? I'm like, she's checking all of the boxes, and you don't give him a no job.

unknown:

Wow.

SPEAKER_00:

Why? Yes, because your mama told you when you were 12, who was you that girl, you 40-something years old, you've been married. Listen, wow. Your homework assignment. Practice on a banana. Practice, no, you practice on him three times a week with a heart full of gratitude. This man is doing all the things for you, and you can't what? You can't get like seriously. Listen, listen.

SPEAKER_03:

If you ever wanted to know about sexual health, about ethical, um, ethical non monogamy. Monogamy. You you know, you know, you know who to reach out to, okay? This is just a little drop in the button. Sex goddess of what the sex goddess has to teach us. And listen, you don't it doesn't need to be all of this, right? Take a little bit.

SPEAKER_01:

There's something that was said today that people are in curious about it or whatever.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that's a time. This is a time to explore, to investigate, to put aside some of the stuff, as Tella would say. You brought your mama, your grandmother, your grandfather, your husband. I mean, your everybody's in the room with you.

SPEAKER_01:

Come on now. Get those people out of the room.

SPEAKER_00:

Get them up. And focus on yourself and your pleasure. And, you know, people, you can reach out to me and do a free 20 minute clarity call. You just like, I just got a couple of questions. I just got one question. It's free. You know, you can go to my organiclovin.com site forward slash coaching, and you could just go. I just got a couple of nobody, I don't record the sessions, nobody needs to know. Right. You could do a free. Clarity call and then from there we can decide. Do you need maybe some people just need, you know, I do a 90 minutes breakthrough session. They just got one or two things they need to work through. And that's it. And then we do that, and then we're done. Or they might, you know, some couples come to me is like, nope, we are transitioning and we don't want to mess it up. So we're gonna do the whole six weeks.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

I have a couple that have been married, you know, more than 20 years, like, no, everything is good, but we want to transition, but we don't want to, you know, if you want to don't hit all the bumps, because there are gonna be bumps and things that are new that you just and so I help prepare you for that. And so we in the six sessions, it could either be six weeks, we can double it up, but it's it's six sessions. And then we kind of it comes with the disc personality. The 90 minutes also comes with a disc personality assessment. I like that that part is and if you're a couple or a thruple, it also comes with an interaction guide. So we take the the assessment results for the disc wow and we put that put it together so we can figure out how you act, interact, and react with with others, walk you through that. And then what is it that you want?

unknown:

About that.

SPEAKER_00:

Are you exploring? Do you want relationships? Is it your sex? I mean, the first time we opened our relationship, all I wanted to do was kiss. I didn't want to talk to anybody. I hadn't kissed anybody in 12 years. I just wanted to kiss some people. And that's all I did. Yeah, I just kissed some people.

SPEAKER_03:

It's whatever it is for you. Oh, Taylor, this is wonderful. Thank you, Taylor. No, thank you so much. I had to negative. We appreciate it. We appreciate um the fresh perspectives, we appreciate the um radically honest and expanding my mind.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, I learned a lot. And I'll say this has been another episode of Black Boomer Best Beauty from Brooklyn. Brooklyn.

Contributor

Angella Fraser

Co-host
Contributor

Leslie Osei-Tutu

Co-host