Ep168 Kindness over comfort: What would you do?

CONTENT WARNING: SUICIDAL IDEATION & THOUGHTS (TIMESTAMP 19:03-24:26)

The Besties were together again to help Leslie’s son have a smooth transition out of the hospital after a 4 month stay. In their time together three things unfolded that challenged their sensibilities and led them to  choose kindness and humanity by going the extra mile. 

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Transcript

Content Warning And Welcome

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Before we begin, we'd like to give a content warning. In this episode, we mention overhearing a conversation about suicide. If you or someone you know is struggling, please reach out for help the best way you can. In the US and Canada, the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline is available by calling 988-24 hours a day, seven days a week. Hey Ange. Hey Les, how's it going? We're not together anymore. I know. We weren't together. When did you leave me yesterday? Yeah, it was yesterday, last night.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Don't tell them, so they're not gonna be jealous. Because we had a it wasn't it yeah, it was we had a time, but we were laughing throughout the uh the madness.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Listen, joy, joy and madness and and and they're closely linked and wordness. They're not linked, they just they can go they can coexist. That's that's all I'll say. They can coexist. And this this past few days was was proof of that.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Um so welcome to another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.

Joy And Hard Things Can Coexist

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Hey guys, I'm Angela, and that's Leslie, my best friend of almost 50 years. We are 260 something year-old black women, and um we're free thinking. That means that we're not bound. We're trying to get free from the ideas and the scripts and the doctrines and the obligatory ways that um many boomers and others um live their lives. And we have decided to bring more joy in with attention. And we'd love for you to join us. We'd love for you to continue on your journey, your joy journey if it has already begun. Um so over 50 years of friendship, stuff happens, and we come here to talk about those things, and um, many of them are quite profound. Um, today what we're gonna be talking about is how important it is to not lose our humanity as we move in the world that is fallen, that is um very difficult sometimes and hard to stay in a joyful place. And a few things happened over the last few days that kind of fall into this, so we're gonna talk about them. And I'm gonna start because I want to start with something that um I saw Leslie do while we were together um in the last few days. When did I I think I was there from from Friday to to Wednesday?

SPEAKER_01 2:57

No, you came sooner than that. I think you came Wednesday or something, but Ange like put on her red cape. She knew that my son was gonna be discharged from the hospital um any day now, so she says, I know this is a lot for you. I'm coming. She didn't ask, she just says, I'm coming there and help you.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

And it's nothing that you wouldn't have done, but it it's just yeah. Why? Why why so we know that's a good idea. Um we're gonna do a whole episode on that because it was a lot, but again, it's you know, we we we don't run away from from hard, we don't hide from it. Um, and as I said before, hard is hard, but we do what we have to when we lean on each other and on others too. Um, but what I saw Leslie do um while I was there, a big snowstorm um happened. Like a blizzard. It was a blizzard, it was snow.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

You have to brace yourself against it.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Yeah, it was it was the way it was the way that it used to be in the 70s, the way that um it used to be. But we don't get these as often as anymore because of um global warming, I hear. Um but what happened is um we went out to buy some things that a son needed at the um pharmacy at the um Neighborhood pharmacy. And by now there were a few inches on the ground. I would say probably five inches or more accumulated snow.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Because it it snowed consistently for many hours. And um, so we we left the store, we're walking back to the car, and we both noticed that there was an elderly woman. We we're in the car at this point, because we were Well, well, we noticed we noticed before we got in, but anyway, we got in the car. We noticed that there was this elderly woman walking. She had a a little stroller. You know, those strollers that it's not really what why do I call it a stroller? It's not a stroller, it's a shopping cart, but it's one of the ones that you that collapses and you can open it and make it. It's like a shopping bag with wheels almost. Yeah, kind of like that.

Friendship, Caregiving, And Showing Up

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Yeah, and she's it's almost one of those carts, and as an aside, it's like a definition of being old. Yeah, like yeah, you know, only people of a certain age carry those things just in case I go to the market or I get a little too much.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

That's right, yeah. But you know what? Um, my partner just got one, and it's so cool. It's so cool. They're they're like you can get you can get the they're like space age. I think money can be space age. Really cool. Any any anyway, so we noticed she was huddled over, you know, kind of shoulders hunched a little bit, short, short woman, and pulling her cart, snow is coming down, and um we noticed her, and and we got in the car and Leslie said, Why is it walking? I can't leave her, I can't leave her like that.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Wait, not only was she pulling a cart and she had a cane. She had a cane that's a cane in the right hand. She had a cane, caught in the left. She had, I guess, a boot on or a hat. But she was like, and I said, What is this lady doing out here? Yeah, yeah. If she was 70. 70 was in her past.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

70 was in her past.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

I would say she was pushing 80. I would say she was pushing 80. And she was trudging along. There was like nobody out on the streets.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

She was like intrepid, though. She was intrepid. She was stealing. She was Yeah, she was she did not look distressed. So anyway, we get in the car, and we kind of pull off just a little bit, and Leslie was like, I can't leave, I can't leave her out here. I said, I should ask her if she wants to ride.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

She said we were kind of just like, nah, she ain't gonna get in our car. This little old car.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Yeah, I didn't think she would get in the car. She was white, and Leslie had said that this is like a Polish neighborhood, and she probably doesn't speak um too much English. So I didn't think she was gonna get in the car.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

And then so I drove, I'm like, okay. And then I'm like, I had to make a U-turn because I said, it's gonna bug me all night long. I'm gonna think of it all night long. And I said, you know, at least I have to try. Yeah, you know, yeah. So I and my nice voice put the window down. Miss, can I take you home? I almost like jumped out and started grabbing her bags.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Like she said, get in the car.

Blizzard Errand Turns Into A Rescue

SPEAKER_01 8:20

You know, and she's like, oh, oh, oh, okay. She had a very thick um um Eastern European accent. Little old lady. She was older than I expected to when I when I saw her. So, and then so she actually had two bags on top of each other. So when I grabbed the top one, she says, be careful, there are eggs in this one. And I opened the trunk and let her see that there were no bodies inside or anything. And I helped her. She was small, she was probably about what, like 5'1 or something like that, small lady, and I was towering over her. And plus she, you know, she had she was 80.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Yeah, she was, yeah, she and and cold and very cold. I don't know. I don't get the sense that she was cold.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Because what? Well, it was freezing out, but oh because this is it was like she was just determined to make it. She didn't seem distressed, believe it or not. She really didn't. I was distressed looking at her. But anyway, so we get her in the car. And what I wanted to do is light into her. I'm like, what are you doing out here? Why are you out here? It's dangerous and this. And she said, remember what she said.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

Because by this time it was it was dark. It was dark. It was dark. It was dark. It was it was dark. In the snowstorm.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

It was 7:30 at night at this point.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Yeah. You know what she said. I'm like, what are you doing out here? She said. Because I stayed in the car and Leslie went out together. She said, I went to the market and it wasn't snowing when I got to the market. But I had to walk around and see things. I said to Ans Lane, I said, listen, it has been snowing for four hours. She has been in the market for four hours.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

This is probably how. She goes to the supermarket.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

She goes, she looks at all the products and this, got her eggs and this, because there's a lot of probably no supermarkets or this or that. I'm like, she says it wasn't snowing when I left.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

What? But she was prepared for it because I think she had on boots and the whole. But you see, the thing is that I don't know if you guys know, but in the tri-state New York, New Jersey, um, Connecticut area, like there are these communities, right? So you could go to a Polish community and all most of the stores are Polish stores, have Polish goods. So I I just imagine that she had people. Her neighborhood people, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:06

But it's no one would say to her.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

She was doing her thing. This is probably how she socializes. It's time to do this. This is probably how she socializes, though. She was, you know, it could be out for out for you know a few hours and came out and was like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

I know the snow was up to her knees. And then she wasn't like a block away. She was maybe three or four blocks away. Yeah, she was long blocks.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

She was. Yeah, yeah. I don't think she realized that either because well, you so she got it. So she got in the she got in the the car and you put her cane in first, right? And so she she got in the car and I moved the cane out of the way. I didn't want to scare her because, you know, I'm here thinking, okay, this person, these are two black people. I don't know how she um is thinking about us. And I just wanted to just like I just wanted to be small. Right, right, right. We should just kind of string us up. But listen, here's what we're doing.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Don't sit on your looked at the warm car and looked at the blizzard. She said, warm car with two black women. Blizzard. Uh I'll take the warm car with the two black women. I'll put my money on that one.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Anyway, we um slowly, because it was really um low visibility in the car. And she directed us what street to get on. You could barely see the we couldn't see the street numbers and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

We actually passed her house and had to turn around and go back. We did.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

She's like, there's a there's a church, and you'll see the church, and we saw the church, and we told her, is that the church? And she's like, No, it's further down, further down. But we're like, there's no way that she was out here this far away.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

I'm like, what is happening? So, so when she got out, she says, Um, I have to pay you. I'm like, absolutely not. And I guess I understand why she said that, but could you imagine?

Crossing Lines Of Race, Language, And Fear

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Of course, of course, I guess that's the appropriate thing to say. Yeah, um, yeah. And I just said to her, Your your thank you is enough. And we're like, Do you need help taking it upstairs? And she says, No, I'll just go in through the garage.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Um but okay, so I listen, honestly, I would have thought about it all night, how she how she was doing, why I I I could not like just not do that. Not not offer.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

So that happened.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

And then Well, here's something that I was thinking about this though, Ange. Like some people say it's like, oh, she wouldn't get, or why would you even ask? She was she's not gonna get in your car, or this she may not trust you and all. But you know, this reminds me of that conversation when people say when you give people on the street money, oh, they're gonna buy drugs with it, oh, they're gonna buy alcohol with it, or oh, how is it gonna help? But the way that I look at it is that I don't I'm not doing it for them. Yeah, I'm not necessarily doing it for them. Obviously, I I want to help in any way I can, but this is something that I feel good that I made the offer. If they go and buy alcohol, cigarettes, liquor, or gamble it or whatever. So, you know, I did my mitzvah. You know, it's it's it's it's it's my I made the effort and I reached out. And and to me, that is my humanity. What they do on the recepts receptive side, that's on them.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Yeah. Yeah, that's on them. And this is how this is how we we walk in our faith, right? This is how faith shows up when um I think it was Saint Francis said, um, you you usually remember this more closely to what what he actually said, but basically, you evangelize by how you live your life, not by proselytizing and hitting people over the head with a Bible, but how you live your life. And I think that I think that that is what she felt. Um is I hope so. I I hope so. I I I I I I have to believe that. I have to believe that it really blessed her, and um maybe it'll it'll make her um just have a um a brighter outlook on life. So I you know, I was really proud of you to have done this, not because this was a big surprise and oh my god, Leslie's never done anything like this before. This is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's not that. It's just that you didn't stay um where I was in the I might have wanted to do it, but I was concerned with um her reaction to us. Like, I didn't want to scare her type of thing, which I have to look at. I have to really think about that. Um, but you refused to um to leave her there, right? And to give into that. And um, yeah, so that was really cool.

Why We Help: Mitzvah And Humanity

SPEAKER_01 16:37

The other thing, remember, it was a time when we were coming from the store getting supplies to help, you know, Omari convalesce at home. So it was a stressful store run for us. You know, we're buying, you know, AIDS that are assistive devices, essentially. Um, you know, so we were preoccupied. We were, you know, trying to get something done and get back into the house. Yeah. But um it's so important that we have to not be so singly focused and narrow that we're not looking at what's going on around us. Because, you know, you and I always say we have to sometimes quiet our troubled minds, our loud minds, and our loud world in order to hear the messages that we're supposed to hear.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Yeah, for sure. You know, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

And perhaps if I was preoccupied or into my own thing, I would not have noticed her walking in the street in the snow. It was she was hard to see.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

But I'm like, she was hard to see. And it was, it's like she was so intrepid, and that's probably some of what I was thinking too. You know, just from some.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

She must only be go into the car.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

You see, you see older people, you see older people pushing through and having to live um through tough situations, you know what I mean, in the in the heart of the city. And so, but anyway, that was a wonderful reminder of how we have to keep our humanity in check. And then there were a few others that happened days within the last few days that we wanted to share with you and bring you this message. Okay, what was another one?

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Do you wanna do you remember? No, tell me what you mean.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Okay, so um, you were at the hospital. I don't know if it was where you work, but you were overhearing a nurse take information from someone that was brought in for for care.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

And it really upset you how it went down.

Medicine Without Eye Contact

SPEAKER_01 18:55

So I did. It it yeah, I remember I know what what you're talking about. So I overheard a nurse um in an interview with a patient in what appears to be um like an intake situation. You know how um when we're with healthcare people, like you have to get demographic information, what's your name, your date of birth, or whatever, and then you start talking a little bit more about the medical situation, why you're here or whatever. So sometimes you may talk about your symptoms or whatever. So in this particular case, I overheard the nurse say, um, you know, do you feel depressed? And it was in a situation where I believe the person, no, the person was um was not a um an English speaker, so there was a translator there, and the nurses looking at the screen, inputting information, and the patient is over here, and the patient is looking at the interpreter, and the interpreter interprets what they hear, and so it's a three-way conversation in a way, and the nurse is writing her notes. So I hear the nurse saying, Do you feel depressed? And I heard the person say yes. Um, and because I know Spanish, you know, I also know what she was saying, but then the translator was also repeating it in English, so I had the opportunity to hear it a few times. So do you feel depressed? Have you tried to um do you think about killing yourself? And the patient said yes. And the nurse said, Do you have you tried to kill yourself? And the patient said, Yes. And have you tried in the last few days or something? The the lady said yes. And she says, Well, did you have a plan? What did you try to do? And she I heard the patient say, I tried to cut my wrists. So I don't remember too much more about that, other than the fact the reason why I mentioned it to Ange is that the nurse honestly never once looked at the patient. She never turned her face away from the screen while she was asking this person these intimate, troubling, personal questions. And got these answers. And got these answers. Because if it was no, no, no. And I was like, what? I mean, she never once like turned and said, Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. Are you feeling better? She never put a hand on the patient. She never, it was like she said, What is your favorite color? And what is your address? I was like blown away. I'm like, Ant, do you believe this? This is what medicine has become. I don't know the people involved, obviously. But maybe this nurse was a nurse for so long. You know, I know as a physician that there has to be some type of separation, emotional separation from patients, because it's just too much sometimes, especially in that area if you're dealing with um psychiatric patients with depression. But I couldn't believe it. I was like, oh my god, like I said, are we robots now?

unknown 22:47

Wow.

Empathy Versus Emotional Numbness

SPEAKER_01 22:48

You know, and and when I told you the story, that's when you and I started talking about all kinds of things like like the state of medicine these days and how people when I say that it's required that we distance ourselves emotionally from patients, I still think as a human, we may have difficulty doing that. And I like the fact that we have difficulty doing that because I always want to be able to emphasize, uh empathize and feel. I think that makes me a better medical provider. If if I just and I didn't sense that the patient was upset by this exchange or that she was any more troubled than if the nurse had responded to her differently. Her affect was flat, which is typical. But I'm like, is this really the way that it has to be? And are we doing people a disservice when we react to them like this? Like, really? I I tried to cut my wrist and nothing, nothing. Yeah. Next question. And it was so rote and method method methodical. Methodical. It was so I don't know. It was so cold. I was like, hmm.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Oh, do we have anything else in this? Yeah, there was another one. There was another one.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Um now I got the giggle, but it was kind of tired.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

It was right, it was right on the wait, wait. It was um I don't want the to go on. Uh oh, okay. So, as I said, we're gonna go, we're gonna do an episode on the whole Omari leaves the the hospital after four months. Um situation. Yeah, right. Sweet. I can't believe it's so wonderful to have. I'm like, don't move, don't cough, don't break. We broke him out. We broke him out. We broke him out. Anyway, so um he needs um some assistance um at the at the house when Desley is at work. And so we made some arrangements to get someone um in the short term, right? Just for a few days. It may extend longer. He is gonna need more care, but we needed someone right away, right? And so that person came yesterday while I was there. Laughing a little thing about your extra. We're not gonna go big into it now. I just want to make this point, right? Okay, as we're talking about humanity and so on. And she did not. I'm laughing. Um, we don't, we it was clear that she didn't understand a lot of English, right? Now, I'm I'm I'm leaving the next day. Leslie has to go back to work. We need someone who we can communicate with, right? And you know me. I'm writing up everything that needs to be done. She had like this, this, this is the time. This is Monday, Wednesday, Friday, this is Thursday, this is Tuesday, color-coded medication this time.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

This is how you do it, this is how it gets picked up. This, this, this, this, this. So the person comes in at the 11th hour. And she doesn't speak English.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

And I'm panicked.

Home Care Hurdles And Language Gaps

SPEAKER_01 26:39

And really, wait, wait, wait. But but when you're explaining things to her, first of all, we decided Ange is gonna be the point person because we didn't want to overwhelm her and stuff, especially with the language barrier. So I laid back, and Ange is, you know, teaching her. And this is what is it's troubling, but she's like, uh-huh, uh-huh. Yeah, you understand? Yes, yes. Yes. She said yes. So we she was here about an hour, whatever, and then she left. And um I said, Oh, okay, so what do you think? And said, This was funny. No bueno. She's like, I'm not leaving. Cancel my flight. I'm not leaving, I'm not leaving, I'm not leaving my nephew.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Not doing it, not doing it, not doing it. Because I I, you know, these types of things, you you you have to. When someone says yes, and when you ask them back, they they're sketchy, they can't say she could pick up on a few things because everything was in English, right? Of course. Yeah. And you she could pick up on a few things. She was very clear on time and those types of things.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

But I was really uncomfortable with the tasks and the and and these are safety things that need to happen. You know, absolutely proper medication distribution, you know, like like safety on the stairs and this and that. So we really needed somebody who's on point. And it's just like, no, no, no, no, no. So what I asked Ange again, because she was interacting with her more than me, I said, Do you think it's an intelligence or skill thing, or is it a language problem?

SPEAKER_00 28:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

And Ang, you said it's a I think it's a language problem. I have no reason to think that she doesn't know things or she's not intelligent. Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

So my oftentimes we we we we we um um uh what's the word? We conflate the two. We think that because people don't speak the language, your language, then they don't have the intelligence, you know, and and that how dare you?

SPEAKER_01 29:07

Right. How again? That's where do you get that information? Where do you get that information from, right? Yeah. So what I suggested, I said, hey, how about if we use AI to translate into her language?

Using Translation Tools To Create Safety

SPEAKER_00 29:30

And I was like, hmm. And how this ties back to the humanity stuff is that we were we're um we cared about her too. This is, you know, probably something that interferes with her getting work. Um, this is probably something that, you know, she was happy the last minute, she's getting some hours, and um and we didn't want to just snatch this away from her. Obviously, that's not more important than Omari's care. But if there was any way that we could make this work, where she could um get a little money for her family, we're like, we're gonna do it as well.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Addressing the issue, not going around it and saying, oh, she's not smart enough to do the job. Or she's we have to give them a chance, yeah, you know. And so but that that was good. So yeah, we reprinted the to-do list with my Google Translate in hand. I said, Do you have what questions do you have about this? And she said, No. Do you understand? She said, Yeah.

Choosing The Extra Step, Every Time

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Yeah, yeah. So we we did not only the Google Translate, but the write-up that I did, we um redid it one version in English and one version in her language, so that she could read it and get the same information. And I guess the thing is like sometimes when you kind of book up on a situation, right? You can you can take the easy way out, you could keep driving, you weren't responsible for that person, that elderly woman walking the street. You're not responsible for for her. She made the choice to come out, she all the things, right? Um, but it didn't take that much effort. Again, even if she said no, it wouldn't have taken that much effort for you to just do this, right? You're there in a warm car. It didn't take a whole lot of effort for me to um um use some of the the tools that that are available to translate this into her language so that she could get what she needed, we could get what we needed, and it and it worked. And it was just again another example of um making the extra effort because our humanity is something that we should um we should be dedicated to, right? And we should take the extra step. Sometimes it's not um uh you know this huge undertaking. Sometimes it's just this little thing that you do. Yeah, you know, but you gotta think about, you gotta, you gotta want to. Want to. You gotta want to, and then you can find the answer. Then the it's not the it's not whether to do it, it's how to do it. It becomes a how question whether or not to do it. Yeah, yeah. So that's what we wanted to share. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

I like it.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Yeah, it's just finding ways to keep the humanity because it's so easy in this world and all the stuff that's going on in our country um to lose sight of that. And so these were some examples of what just happened to the besties in the last few days, and we thought that it could be um enlightening and helpful and thought provoking for you too.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

So, yeah, but thank you for joining us again to another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn. Brooklyn.