Ep175 Who Are You Without That Job Title?

A toxic job doesn’t just waste your time. It can hijack your body, shrink your thinking, and convince you that staying small is “safe.” We sit down with Dr Kimani Norrington Sands, licensed clinical psychologist and founder of Lifting As We Climb Consulting, to talk about the 2026 Job Liberation Virtual Summit for Black Women and why this moment demands more than motivation. We need strategy, community, and a plan that protects our health and our money. 

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https://2026jobliberation.heysummit.com/?ac=KmQBDvM5
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MSN Article

Transcript

Cold Open And Friendly Catch-Up

SPEAKER_05 0:02

Hey Ange.

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Hey Les. How's it going?

SPEAKER_05 0:05

It's going well. It's going well. Good.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Good. What's the t-shirt say? What's the t-shirt say?

SPEAKER_05 0:11

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

We built this joint for free. Angela Rye. Yes? Angela Rye. That's that's packed. That's coming with me to Panama. It is indeed. It is indeed. There's a lot going on.

SPEAKER_05 0:29

There's a lot going on.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

And um before we jump in and talk to you about who our special guest is, you guys may know her. She's a friend of the show. Yeah. I think she's probably um our most um our most um the she's probably been the guest that we've had on the most.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

And um there's a reason for that, which you guys will will um understand in just a moment. Leslie, can you introduce us? Who are we?

SPEAKER_05 1:03

Welcome to another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Hey folks, I'm Angela, and that's Leslie, my best friend of almost 50 years. We are two 60-something free-thinking black women. And we are on our joy journey. We have decided to share that journey with you, to invite you to join us, to start your own, to be more intentional about centering joy. Um, and because joy is not happiness, joy is not flitty, it's not um, it can be really hard to do things that will lead to joy. Um, it compels us to do the right thing. And um, today we're gonna be talking about an amazing virtual summit that is now in its third year. That means it is um a summit that continues year after year to serve black women who are about um becoming liberated from toxic, um, a toxic job or have through no fault of their own been pushed out of a job situation. And in this climate that we're in, just uh a place where black women can come together and find um healing and information and action, action-based um knowledge to move into a more joyful and liberated space. And so I'm gonna let um Leslie introduce our guest. Um she's a friend of the show, as I mentioned, and we're so happy to have her back.

SPEAKER_05 2:52

So I'm about to tell you a little bit about um a sister friend of ours, a friend of the show, and as I just revealed to her, one of the people that I really admire most. Um let me just read this before I get emotional about it. Dr. Kimani Norrington Sands, she's the owner and operator of Lifting as We Climb Consulting. Dr. Norrington Sands is a licensed clinical psychologist. She's a Magna Cum Laudi graduate of Spelman College and obtained her master's and her PhD in clinical psychology with a multicultural community clinical emphasis from California School of Professional Psychology. Dr. Kimani has more than 20 years of experience as a therapist. She is also a certified Hello 7 coach with a focus on mindset, business, and finances. As a licensed clinical psychologist, toxic job survivor, and certified Hello7 coach, Dr. Kimani is uniquely qualified to help black women liberate from toxic jobs and pivot to better professional opportunities. I welcome my sister friend and our guest, special guest, Dr. Kimani.

SPEAKER_04 4:23

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here again today. Good to have you back.

Meet Dr Kimani And The Summit

SPEAKER_01 4:28

You're doing big things as we say back home. Big things are gone. Big things are gone. What have you been up to?

SPEAKER_04 4:37

Oh man, so we're in launch time for the summit. So a lot of work, a lot of work. Marissa and I and April, who is our moderator, are doing a lot of work with preparing for the summit this year. Uh, because uh, you know, we're really focusing on not only black women and toxic jobs, but also black women who've been pushed out of the labor market. So just really trying to curate um a summit that really speaks to the needs of so many Black women and providing resources to help Black women not only replace income, rather, it might be pivoting to another job or creating their own business, but also looking at our options for uh benefits, so insurance and retirement, as well as creating multiple streams of income. So just very intentional so that Black women will actually have plans once they leave the summit.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Yeah. One of the things that I love about the summit, first of all, the the lineup that you just that alone for you all to learn about some of these people and how they're moving in the world that can really, really help you. Um Stephanie Perry, one of our favorites out there, out there, um, and Marie Archer, the anti-HRHR. Yes. Listen, you're gonna learn the names of some people that um will continue, continually feed your um your information around how to create lives that work better for you, right? Lives that work better for you. So the summit is a two-day summit. What are the dates?

SPEAKER_04 6:23

Well, it's May 1st to the third. So we kick off on May 1st in the evening, and we actually kick off with the fireside chat with the three Black women researchers of Pets a Threat. So this is the first time ever we're gonna have all three of them together. Wow. It's a special treat to have all three of them together. And for those of you who are not familiar with Petit Threat, for any of your listeners who are not familiar, I just want to briefly talk about Petit Threat. Yes. So Pets a Threat, again, created by three Black women researchers, Dr. Juanita Johnson Bailey, Dr. Keisha Thomas, Dr. Rosemary Phelps. Pets a threat deals with when someone is sought out in the workplace for their expertise. Oh, Angela, we love you. You're so smart, Leslie. Oh, you're brilliant. You are just saving this whole organization and you're treated like the pet. But then you're getting attention. You may be getting more attention than other people in the workplace. You're outshining them, and there's a shift in terms of how you're seen and treated like the threat. And then when that happens, there are these attempts to try to push you out of the organization. So, as I said, I've had them on my YouTube channel, which is Lifting Us We Climb Consulting. I've had two of them on a number of times. This past year, I've had actually three of the first time I had three of them on my channel. But this is the first time we're gonna have all three of them at the summit. So this is gonna be a fireside chat with them. So that's the kickoff that Friday, and then we're gonna have a sound bowl healing to kick off the summit that Friday evening. And then all day Saturday and all day Sunday will be the summit. Wow. And also I want to say that as a privacy consideration, summit attendees will not be seen on camera. They also have the option of attending anonymously, only summit speakers will be seen on camera. Wow. Thank you for that.

SPEAKER_05 8:10

That that's probably focus on on um feeding the soul, in addition to the even the logistics of such a difficult time in our lives. You know, I mean, a sound bowl, yeah, a fireside chat, you know what I mean? It's it's such a time of community and bringing people together at through stressful times.

SPEAKER_04 8:35

Absolutely, terrifying, terrifying times. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

And I think when, you know, when one wonders, well, why, you know, black women and and what does that, what is the difference and so on? It's things like this. It's because black women understand that these things are needed. It's not just about going from one job to another. It's not just about, you know, this particular employer. It's about what is happening with our nervous system. What is what what framing do we have to get into to make the best decisions, right? When black women design summits like this, they're thinking about these things. They're thinking about people just like them. Right.

SPEAKER_04 9:19

And we're thinking about the whole person. We're thinking about what do we need to feel safe in our environments, right? We need privacy, we need safety, we need community, we need all those things. And when you think about the nervous system, many of us are so terrified right now that we're so dysregulated, we can't even think straight. We can't even think straight, right? And we think about the biology of the brain, what's happening right now is that we're so activated, we're so scared that our amygdala is overactivated. So the mygdala is where we go into this fight, fight, freeze, or fawn response. So many black women are like an either freeze or like fawn. Okay, I'm do whatever it takes to make sure nobody bothers me. So I'll just put my head down, lay low, I'll stay on my lane, you know. So, but when we're in that type of response, that doesn't help us because we're not planning, we're not doing anything. And it doesn't stop anything from happening to us. Exactly. It's not helpful, it's not helpful at all. Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

You could you could be in the line of fire and you just stay in there. Yeah, exactly. You're getting burned up, you're getting burned up on fire, right?

SPEAKER_04 10:26

But you're just hoping that the fire done get you because you can't still. No, you're still gonna get burned up, right? You'll get real crispy, okay? So when we're thinking about real crispy, real crispy, right? Extra crispy. So what we're trying to do with the summit is the middle of activated for many, many of us, right? Understandably. So what we're trying to do is we're trying to provide a safe environment with the summit. So providing that privacy consideration so nobody will know you're there at the summit, right? You're in a community with other black women. We're having sound bolt, we're providing a space. We heal in community. So when we have that space, the hope is that you're able to turn down that amygdala, the survival brain, so you can access your prefrontal cortex. That's what we plan, we organize, we judge, right? So once you're able to access that, you're at the summit, you're hearing from 28 phenomenal Black women speakers who are pouring into you and sharing with you the how, the practical. This is how you replace your income. This is how you look at your options for retirement and health insurance. This is how you create multiple streams of income. So now you're able to receive the information as opposed to I can't, I can't, I can't even hear it, right? So, again, like you're saying, we're very intentional on how we've curated the programming.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Yeah, yeah.

Summit Format Privacy And Healing

SPEAKER_05 11:49

I just want to read something that that really it's it's so speaks to uh spot on about what you're saying. So it says here, layoffs are accelerating. I'm reading from the webpage of the uh summit. Layoffs are accelerating, workplace protections are shrinking, burnout is rising, and black women are still expected to outperform, overextend, and be grateful. The third annual 2026 job liberation virtual summit for black women was created for this exact moment. Over three uh powerful days, you'll learn how to some of the things that Dr. Kamani just said, but I'm gonna highlight one being a physician, stabilize your nervous system while making strategic decisions. Right, right. You spoke about the amygdala and how that is involved in our day-to-day and stress responses, but also the cortisol levels that rise when we're in that constant state of flight. Yeah. And let's say we make it safely out of this toxic job or this work situation. What has our blood pressure? What happens to our arteries? What has it will our blood pressures survive this? Will our health survive our move to better circumstances? Yes.

SPEAKER_04 13:19

Wow. That's true. And even once you get to the other environment, you might be so hyper-vigilant that you can't turn it down. You can't turn it down. And I was, in fact, I was talking to a new therapy client as I was having a consultation call with her, and she was like, it's not imposter syndrome. And she was explaining to me, and I've had interviews about this as well on my channel, it's not imposter syndrome. It's not like there's something where I'm questioning internally about me. It's when I go to this new environment, they're looking at me, they're expecting me to make mistakes. So it's more of an imposed syndrome, right? So it's like these people are expecting the worst. I know I'm supposed to be here. Right. I know what I bring to the table, but people keep questioning me so much. Now the self-doubt is starting to crop up. But that's more imposed. That's not imposter. That's imposed.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

That's correct. I never, I never, um, that to me was this this catch-all. It's an important um framing. Um, but I never thought it worked for black people on its surface, right? Right. Because again, what is what is being imposed and what is just the water that everyone is swimming in. And it's almost like a um uh colorblind way of of of thinking of it, right? That that everyone is kind of has the same um hills to climb, the the the same um um people think of everyone the same in terms of their abilities and so on. That's not our experiences by not at all, not at all. So I'm I'm grateful that you have kind of stated it and have given name to this other way of seeing it.

SPEAKER_04 15:00

Let's know it's Natasha Williams. She's done research in the yeah, in the UK. She's actually done some research on it.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

Amazing, amazing, grateful for that and to push some of this new language. So say say the say the other um the what it's called, the other phenomenon.

SPEAKER_04 15:15

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

It's called imposed syndrome. Imposed syndrome. Okay. Lock lock that in. Lock that in. Put that up against imposter syndrome and see where you get black women. Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 15:28

And you'll say, like, wait a minute. That feels more like what's being happening. That's three quarters of my experience.

SPEAKER_04 15:36

Yes, yes. Yes. And I want to, I don't want to clarify too, that sometimes when people hear job liberation, they misconstrue that we're saying, oh, you mean that we don't need to work? And um, that is not what we're saying. What we're saying is we don't want you in a toxic job. Okay. And we understand that sometimes you might need to be in a toxic job until you create an exit plan. Got that, right? But the hope is that you don't stay in a toxic job thinking that that's the only place where you can make money.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Right, right. And normal and normalizing that, right? Like this is how I'm supposed to feel. Right. This is this is my only my only choice. Before I forget, because you know I have a thing about forgetting stuff. You because you're old. Um, earlier this week, I am. Earlier this week, I'm having a conversation with one of my children, right? And you know, stuff going on at work and whatever. And you know, I'm out of the the corporate life. I've been out for almost 10 years now. I can't believe it's been that long. And um have multiple streams of income. So all of the things that I might think, oh, I that's not a summit for me because I've I've learned the things, right? I've been to these types of things and I I move in these circles, right? But I'm I'm talking to um my child and I'm saying, you know, I'm gonna go to the summit because this is stuff that people come to me for all the time. And if I don't have the latest and greatest information, if I am not optimizing my knowledge so that I can help others, then I'm I'm I'm not doing them the best service that I can give to them. So I'm gonna commit my time to learn, to learn for myself. And this isn't just about, it's not even an orientation. No, I'm gonna say it this way. It is oriented around income and and and those types of things. The way that I see it as well is the ways that we as a black community um are honing in on our survival skills. Right? How are we, what are we learning so that we know when to pivot? We don't have to then go to the summit. We know, we've learned in this 2026 um job liberation summit for black women. We've learned some things that we can when when we see it coming, we already know what to do. We're already ready.

SPEAKER_07 18:06

We're we're not waiting. We're not waiting for the thing.

Nervous System Survival Mode Explained

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so that's that's another reason why I think people should consider attending because um there is preparation work that we should all be doing in the time that we live in.

SPEAKER_04 18:25

Agreed, agreed. And you know, too, something when you when you were saying that it made me think about something that sometimes we have some magical thinking going on, right? Sometimes we think, well, I don't want to do an exit plan because then that will make the in the universe that might make something happen to my job. I'm gonna jinx what the hell? What the hell? Grow in the channel. That's magical thinking. That's not gonna make it, that's not gonna make it, right? That's just like I'm gonna sit still and and be in the fire and get crispy, and then everything's gonna everything's gonna somehow.

SPEAKER_05 19:02

And the logic, you know. It's a logical. Well, well, listen, Ange, while you were speaking, thank God I'm not in a toxic work situation any more than you know, being a black physician in America can be, you know. But I escaped from a toxic marriage, a toxic, a 30-year toxic relationship. And I tell you, I was looking through the listing and the lineup, and so many of the skills that are taught and spoken about in this summit applies to people getting out of toxic situations or situations that are not serving them.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:46

I had to get my financial house in order and start making preparations before I could exit safely. I had to start planning paperwork and legal things and what have you, being transparent here. So, what I'm saying is it's obviously designed um around your unfortunate and toxic experience as in in your work environment, but it can be extrapolated to so many situations where we need to be emancipated from. Agreed, agreed. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:26

And when you think about anything that you need to be emancipated from based upon your timeline, yes, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

Exactly. Because my timeline was 30 years.

SPEAKER_05 20:41

Maybe you needed to sum it 30 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Well, you had to do the first 10 to say I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_05 20:52

I spent the first 20 in magical thinking.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Oh my gosh. Leslie, Leslie, the things that you make jokes out of. Oh my gosh. My mother has a saying for that. But anyway, we'll move on. Um so, Dr. Kamani, this is your third year. Um tell us about how the summit has changed year over year. Um, what are some of the the kind of new insights that you brought brought in in um 2026?

Imposed Syndrome In New Workplaces

SPEAKER_04 21:27

Yeah, well, each year, you know, Marissa and I, when we think about planning a summit, um, we think about, because we're both toxic job survivors, we're both mental health professionals, and we think about what we would have needed or wanted if we had something when we were leaving a toxic job? Because we had to do it on our own, right? And so the first year was more of a mindset thing, right? Mindset, you know, thinking about, you know, how can we show other black women that they're not alone, that they have options. So it's more general, right? Second year got a little bit more into strategy, a little bit more, right? But this year is more direct with strategy, right? So literally, you're coming in one way, you're gonna be leaving with the plan. Wow. Straight up, right? And this year, and going into planning this year, we were both very concerned because we saw these layoffs of black women, and we were like, oh my God, like what are we going to do? We felt like overwhelmed. We didn't know what we could do to support black women. So we said, okay, we're just gonna incorporate within that within the summit. And so again, we started thinking about the speakers, what can we do? So all the speakers, whatever they're talking about, can also apply to black women who've been pushed out of the labor market. So again, our planning was thinking about toxic jobs, black women being pushed out, and actually black women leaving with something. So an exit plan or a pivot plan, right? And all black women thinking about what are the ways they can have multiple streams of income. So everybody coming to that summit should have the ways of thinking about multiple streams of income. So we're all thinking about that. Then when we thought about our bonus sessions this year, we were very intentional thinking about wealth, money, right?

SPEAKER_03 23:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 23:20

So all of our bonus sessions deal with money-related topics. Okay. Okay. Okay. And then we also thought about many times we get feedback about, you know, we want to still be in community, we need additional support, you know, like we come to the summit, it's great, rah-brah, rah, we have community, but then it's kind of like that's it. You know what I'm saying? Like we have a WhatsApp group, but that's kind of it. So this year we're having the um Liberation Accountability Circle, which is um coaching with Marissa and I over the course of the year. So six coaching sessions. So if a black woman has an exit plan or she has a pivot plan, or she's creating multiple streams of income, but she needs that additional support over the course of the year, right? She's like, ah, like I think I'm gonna fall off, or I get kind of lost. Yeah, then she's able to get that additional support. So this is the first year that we're doing that, and it's limited to 20 black women this year. Wow. So we decided to do a little bit more hands-on support this year to see how it goes.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

Awesome. I love that. I love that. Um, um, and it's um uh lifting, lift lifting as you climb.

SPEAKER_04 24:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

I love I love that um that title that you have for your for your work. Yeah. Um I saw the new trailer for the summit. I don't know if you saw the email that I sent back. You know, you get all these emails. Sometimes I just have to like wow. So we're gonna plug that in somewhere in this episode. Oh, that's cool.

SPEAKER_04 25:01

Yes, um it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Yes, Glamazini's been very well done. I know. I'm like, damn, she could do that too. She has she's doing so much amazing work.

SPEAKER_05 25:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

It's really, really well done.

SPEAKER_05 25:15

It's like pow, pow, pow, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

I love I like the way that it's we're gonna make sure that you all see it um on this episode.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

So I just wanted to mention that girly jobs are playing in our faces, aren't they?

SPEAKER_02 25:32

And now with this new administration, toxic jobs don't just ignore your brilliance, they make you question whether it was ever really real. How does stress show up for you physically?

SPEAKER_07 25:47

Brain fog, headache, feeling on edge.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Thinking about who you were before the workplace, maybe you were bold, soft, curious, creative.

SPEAKER_08 26:04

Leaving a toxic job is not just about emotions, and you need to be strategic about it.

SPEAKER_10 26:12

You get to tell your own story. You get to start all over if you want to. Hollers don't know, limitations. Allow your inner child to play and create the world that this world told you was unimportant.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

You shift the way in which you think about how money is earned and moving from scarcity to abundance mindset.

SPEAKER_06 26:37

I make money easily and effortlessly.

SPEAKER_04 26:39

So again, we're open and signs are revealed to us. We need to pay attention to that and be courageous enough to follow up with that.

SPEAKER_07 26:49

Make sure you read your company policy. Where can we get$1,500 a month? If it's bringing in over$1,500 a month, then we are financially free. My freedom is in the desire, and my freedom is in the action.

SPEAKER_09 27:00

If you are waiting for someone to give you something that they benefit from keeping from you, it's not gonna happen. Can you view yourself as accomplished without a job that says you're accomplished?

SPEAKER_06 27:16

But if you are talking about liberating yourself, you're gonna have to be number one. You're gonna have to be not selfish but self-ful. You're going to have to get familiar with the idea that you will no longer tolerate toxicity in any shape or any form in your life.

Strategy For Exits Pivots And Income

SPEAKER_09 27:37

Looks like the summit is about jobs and work and money, but this summit is about your dreams. This summit is about your life, a life beyond your wildest dreams.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

The 2026 Third Annual Job Liberation Virtual Summit for Black Women happening online May 1st through the 3rd. Registration is open.

SPEAKER_04 27:53

And black women, we do not panic, we pivot.

SPEAKER_06 28:00

Oh, I love being a black woman. If I gotta come through this experience again, please, Lord above, make me a black woman.

SPEAKER_05 28:08

I don't want to be anything but I like that friend of the show, um, Dr. Rocher Brown, yeah, is also a speaker. It's a financial psychologist. And it's like you're you're thinking, what the heck is that? Well, a friend of mine could use somebody like that. What? Um wait, wait, what do we say like this? Listen, a friend of mine has used somebody. Listen, right, because sometimes it's not whether or not, in fact, many times it's not whether or not you have the financial backing and support, but it's how you think about it and how you can use it and things like that. So sometimes you need someone else to get in your head and and question the way that you think about money and spending and survival and holding on and all of the history sometimes, you know, that comes with your spending. Sure. Yeah. Let me tell you.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

This is not financial planning. This is your relationship to money and the specific things that you have to that are the albatrosses on your back. I could not have considered um moving abroad without addressing three huge financial things that I was carrying, right? And now, guess what? They're behind me. Okay. They are behind me because I got my power back around these things. You have to confront it.

SPEAKER_04 29:40

You kind of believe it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

That is what we're talking about. This is not, you know, I still got my Edward Jones, but this is not that. This is not that at all. And so, yes, Dr. Rocher does that type of work. This thing is always trying to strangle me.

SPEAKER_04 29:54

And I and I and I love when you brought her up because, like, whenever I think about her, it's such a full circle moment because she is this pivotal in me being able to leave that toxic job. Because when I was at the toxic job, I knew I knew I had to get out of there. And so I started working with a black woman business coach. From there, I met Dr. Roche Brown and I said, okay, I have to leave this job. What's keeping me at this job? Okay, money. Okay, I gotta figure out how to replace my income. So then I said, okay, I'm gonna replace my income by doing telehealth. That's lowest hanging fruit. I know how to do that. So I started working with the business coach. Okay, got that. But then I said, Oh, you know what? I still don't feel like I have my finances in order. You know, I still don't feel comfortable yet. I don't have my finances in order. I got money issues. I knew I knew I had money issues, right? Yeah. So then I found out about Dr. Rocher and I was like, she's a financial psychologist. It's like, whoa. And I got money issues. I need to work with her. And so then I started working with her, and it was game changer. Game changer, right? Game changer. So then I could no longer avoid looking at my finances. I could no longer avoid any of this stuff. So then we came up with a financial exit plan. She held me accountable, you know, came up with the financial exit number, all this stuff. And she was the one who said to me, You are oh, you're gonna be okay with leaving this job financially. And in fact, if you go back to the job, you're gonna be losing money because you now you've exceeded your income. Oh, she was the one too. She was the one who said that to me. Right? I wouldn't have been able to figure that out. Yeah, you couldn't put that part together. Yeah. And so because she helped me out so much, so much. I, you know, once I left the job and all that kind of stuff, and the way she does this with money, she doesn't make you feel bad, doesn't shame you. And she is she's just a joyful person, you know, she makes her mind and funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was like, you know what? I want to share her with as many black women as I can, right? And so then that's when I started doing financial masterclasses with her virtually. And then I was like, okay, well, we're doing a summit. She has to be one of our things. She has to be. So it's always a full circle, you know, whenever I think about doing events and having her, because I think about where I used to be. And she's part of your story.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

Wow. He's a key part of my story. That's incredible. And I also love how you um are sharing. You know, you you you you learn these new things through your first through your own experience. And it wasn't enough for you to, okay, I'm good now. I'm good, but this is the lifting as we climb.

SPEAKER_05 32:45

I was gonna say it's lifting as you climb, exactly other people up, exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 32:50

And my background is Bellman College, right? So I believe in sisterhood. I believe in sisterhood. So I'm like my sisters, right? So, sis, like if I made it, and if you know what I'm saying, like I'm reaching for you, sis. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's another way, I'm showing you it's another way, but you got to be open, right? Right, you gotta be open. I'm showing you, yeah, yeah. So come along, come along.

SPEAKER_05 33:13

So so wait, there's one more person I want to call out because I think this is mad cool.

SPEAKER_04 33:17

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_05 33:17

Um, S An Marie Archer. Oh, yes, yeah. So let me just briefly, because I know you have to leave soon, but she's um has this business called the she she tells herself as the anti-HR person, right? She used to be an HR insider. She brings to her community the inside tea about what HR folks think about and how you can negotiate.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

Yeah, she will she will get you that sabbatical. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_05 33:55

The things that you need to leave safely and securely because she's an insider.

SPEAKER_04 34:02

Yeah. Yes, straight shooter. That's right. Straight shooter, straight shooter.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

Anti-HRHR. HR language. Anti-HR. She is HR, but she knows.

SPEAKER_05 34:19

It's like we have a mole among them.

Money Mindset And Speaker Spotlights

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Yes. Oh no, that's so awesome. Dr. Kimani, like what else do you want to tell the people? I I I I I wanted to ask about some of the things that get in the way of people um saying yes to gifting themselves with liberation, right? It's it's you have to give yourself permission to say this is something that um that you deserve, right? This is something that is divinely yours to to live a liberated life. What usually comes up for people is the question that that that I have. Like what what barriers do they have to overcome to a lot of fears.

SPEAKER_04 35:06

A lot of fears about, if you're still in a toxic job, a lot of fears about change. A lot of fears. And you know, even if you're in a toxic job, there's fears about leaving a job. And so what's on the other side? Am I going to be able to replace my income? I'm comfortable in this environment, even though I hate it. I'm comfortable in this environment. I'd rather want to stay with the devil. I know. The devil, you know, you know, I might as well do that. You know, all jobs are toxic. So thinking about the lies that we tell ourselves to stay in these environments. And when we think about the people around us, we might trauma bond with them too. And those people might be like, oh girl, yeah, all jobs are toxic. Oh, girl, but this is a good job. Oh, girl, but right. So they might just kind of fuel that, okay? And so they might tell you to stay in that job, or they might stoke your fears. So if you say, Oh, I'm, you know, I'm thinking about leading that, girl, you better lead that good job. You're gonna end up homeless. What you doing? Oh my God. So now you're already right, you're already anxious. You're looking at what's happening in the job market. People around you are stoking your fears. So there's a lot of fear. So I want to normalize the fear. The fear is normal. I understand that. Yet what I am saying to black women is I don't want any of us to just up and leave a job. Yeah, I don't want any of us to do that unless you're in a media gauge. Yeah, yeah. Unless you're like, you're about to get harmed some kind of way, you're about to have a nervous breakdown, something like that. Okay. But otherwise, I want us to be wise and I want us to exit plan. I want to walk in silence, channel our inner Harriet, and exit plan, right? That's what I want us to do. Okay. Going to the summit will help us do that. And you can leave whenever you want to leave, okay, if you're still in a toxic job. If you've already been pushed out, now we're looking at pivot plans, okay? But staying stuck in fear, like we said, just staying stuck, putting your head down, that's not gonna save you from anything. Yeah, it's not gonna save you from anything. So the fear, I understand it, it's normal. I went through it too, right? But I knew that I had to go through it because it wasn't gonna get any better. It was going to consistently get worse. It was gonna get worse, worse, worse, worse, worse, right? Yeah. But what I want black women to know, not only is it normal, it's you're not alone in going through it because you're in a community with other black women and there's resources now to help you. I didn't have these resources. I figured it out all by myself. Yeah, I figured it out all by myself. And I want black women to see on the other side, it's so much better. It's so much better. I have now I have like, I think I have like over 700 videos on my YouTube channel now, right? And I've interviewed so many black women, and not one black woman that I've interviewed has ever said, I regret leaving that toxic job. Not one. You never hear that from me. So I want black women to see and understand, yes, it is scary, right? Oh, this is the other thing. Sometimes as black women, we're so committed to the work because our identity becomes fused in the work, right? Like, oh, I'm a principal of this school and I gotta be here for these kids. And if I leave, then this this school is gonna fall apart, or da da-da-da, right? Right. So we become, oh yeah, my team needs me. And if I leave, then you know, so then we feel like we're self-sacrificing, or and I'm like, I get it, yet what about self-preservation? Okay. The other thing is there's a skewed perception that we can't do this type of work somewhere else. And that's not true. And I know that because that was me. That was me. Yeah, I used to think the same thing.

SPEAKER_05 38:59

Ang always says, When you leave, you take yourself with you. And your skills you don't train, empty your pockets of your skills.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

They don't say take them and leave them that that's that's the desk. That's the yeah, that that's our intellectual problem. No, you're leaving with that. Pick it up and take it elsewhere. Exactly.

Fear Identity Grief And Self-Preservation

SPEAKER_04 39:20

Exactly. And what you may find is what I experienced is once I left that place, I was able to do things I did there at a much higher level. Yeah. But I couldn't see that when I was there. Yeah. You know why? Because I'm so busy, all my energy is fighting these people. Wow. Wasting all this energy going nowhere, going nowhere, right? Then I said, I released it, I said, okay, this is this isn't declared of God. This is not this, I know that's not what you want me to do. I know that's not, right? Let it go, boom. Then all these opportunities start coming my way. Things I could have never imagined, right? Now I'm doing things at a much higher level.

SPEAKER_03 40:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:01

But I had to let it go.

SPEAKER_03 40:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:03

And then part of letting that go was I had to go through a grief process. I had to let it go. And I said, I have to let go of the dreams I had at that job. I had to let go of what I thought I was gonna accomplish there. I had to let go of the people who I thought I was cool with who betrayed me. I had to let go of the people I was cool with, but now we're not gonna be, you know, I'm not gonna see you every day. I had to let go of all, but that was my grief process. And I had to accept that and had to process that. So we have to recognize that it is a complicated thing to go through, yet you can do that. Right. It is possible, and you have support. You have support.

SPEAKER_05 40:43

I love that. Yeah. Wow. Thank you so much for bringing us to us again. Yes. You know, you're always welcome here. But as I said to you before, we we started recording. You gotta put on your calendar that you need some rest. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 41:03

Oh, I forgot to mention the MSN article too.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

Yes, yes. We talked about it what la in our episode last week. We read some of the article because again, we were like, wow, they did a fantastic job. You know, it wasn't just this little blurb, it was like a really in-depth, but anyway, go ahead, talk about it.

SPEAKER_04 41:22

No, I was so excited. I was just sharing that um I went to this YouTube event, and you know, I went to this YouTube creators event. And at first I was like, what am I doing here? Not imposter syndrome, not in poster syndrome, but I was like, I don't know, you know, because these are like YouTubers. I, you know, I'm like, am I a YouTuber? Like, what am I doing here? And so anyway, um, I, you know, I came across this black woman who was extremely friendly. And I just started talking to her, and I found out she had a huge YouTube following. Wow. And I was like, when we started talking about my channel, her channel, she said she was a toxic job survivor. Then I booked her to be on my channel, yeah, and then she was just talking, just very friendly. Yeah, and she said she was an MSN contributor. And I was like, Oh, well, close, I'm thinking of my mind, closed mouths don't get fed, right? I was like, Oh, you think you can write about a summit? She was like, Absolutely. Oh, met her on a Monday, the article was up on a Wednesday, and I was like, wow, that's now that is amazing.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

Yeah, that's a beautiful thing. It's and she did a fantastic job. Yeah, really, really well done, very informative. Um, I love the way that she um presented the two of you, the two co-founders, in in in just all the the ways that you deserved. Yeah. Really being clear about um this work that you do and the commitment that you have to helping um black women. And um, we will obviously put a link to it in our episode notes.

Press Coverage Replays And Closing

SPEAKER_04 42:53

So, yeah. All right. Well, there you have oh, I'm sorry, I want to say one more thing. So we often get the question about black men, right? So black men say, well, what about us? Like, can we come to the summit? And and you know, I don't want to sound some kind of way, but this is a curated space for black women, okay. Um, if you want to access the information, you can access the replays, right? So the replays will be on sale after the summit, but this space is specifically for black women because black women have said we want a space just for us, okay? So you will be able to access the information by uh getting the replays once the summit is over.

SPEAKER_05 43:37

I'd like to say also that when black women are empowered specifically and when we have the information, we bring a whole community in. True, true. We bring a whole, we don't hold nothing close to the No, we don't. No, we don't. So um, yeah. I love that. Well, thank you again, my sister.

SPEAKER_04 43:59

Thanks. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 44:00

Thank you so much to a great summit. Um, thank you. Yeah, it's gonna be um very special, and I really appreciate that you always pour yourself into these endeavors for for our community. Absolutely. So thank you again. Absolutely. Well, this has been another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.

SPEAKER_03 44:22

Brooklyn.