Ep188 Summer Podcast Club: Learning to Face History Without Looking Away

We close out our summer deep dive on Tara Roberts’ Into the Depths podcast by sitting with the final two chapters, “Healing” and “Rooting,” and the question of how we tell the truth without surrendering our joy. From the Sao Jose shipwreck found in South Africa to family land in North Carolina, we discuss evidence, memory, and what repair can look like when we refuse to look away.

Listen, then leave your comments so we can chat and connect with more listeners.

Referenced Content:

Wilmington on Fire (option 1) 

https://globaljusticecenter.org/videos/wilmington-fire

Wilmington on Fire (option 2)

https://www.primevideo.com/detail/0KVR9UKN84LGA6YMPPJ3PRXST4

American Coup: Wilmington 1898 | Full Documentary | American Experience | PBS

https://youtu.be/AORz0OgEVHI?si=yEWoHoPRUovA_HlW

The 'Clotilda,' the Last Known Slave Ship to Arrive in the U.S., Is Found

History of the São José Slave Ship and Site | Smithsonian Institution

Diving With A Purpose

https://divingwithapurpose.org

Want behind the scenes content, Join us on Patreon at $5 or $10 level: 

https://patreon.com/user?u=83534204

Get Angie’s eBook: 

We’re Too Old for This! The Inquisitive Older Woman’s Guide to Joy http://joystrategy.co/ebook

IG: https://www.instagram.com/blackboomerbestiesfrombrooklyn

Transcript

The Great Lighting Debate

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Hey Pallie. Hola. Muy, muy, muy bien. Y tú? Well, I'm not in Panama, but I have a better light than you. Listen, guys. I gotta show you what I'm trying to. We just spent the last 10 minutes comparing lighting sources. And essentially, Ange has a firefly for a light. She keeps saying, Les, why is your light so much better than mine? And it's like, because you essentially you have no light. Let me show you.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

First of all, I have the sun. It is in the starting. You need to use God's light because so the sun is right there. It's right over there. Yeah. And the windows open. Um, then I have this. Useless. And this is wait, useless. This is it off. This is it on at the highest. This is the highest. Oops. That's a drink. Throw it in the garbage. E. DNS. Okay, um, Tango. S O. Okay. Is that on or off? This is on. Off. Look, I'm afraid to turn it off. Off is this. Okay. Stop playing. And so, Liz, I'm telling you the truth.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

I'm telling you the truth. I swear for God. All right, I'm turning mine off.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

It's about the same as mine now. No, it's still better than mine. Okay. Anyway. Listen, we're gonna get it together because you guess what? My bestie is coming together. How do you like this one? Stop. You're showing off. You're showing off. You're showing off.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

I'm showing off, yeah. Anyway.

Joyful Living Out Loud After 60

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Welcome to another episode of Black Boomer Best. I'm just hating because you're you're too so far away from me. Ooh, sorry. Because I'm struggling. See, that's what you get. Welcome to another episode of Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Hey guys, I'm Angela, and that's Leslie, my best friend of almost 50 years. We are two free-thinking, 60-something-year-old black women who have decided to make joy the central and intentional way that we conduct our lives. And that often means um doing all that we can to shed some of the old assumptions about how black women, older black women should um conduct their lives. And um it also pushes us to live our lives out loud. You say now you like it. Saying God don't like ugly. God has never liked ugly. It's Leslie, no, that's not true. See how strong my juju is? You see how strong my juju is. I am so sorry. I I forgot. I forgot the power that I have. I'm trying to turn it off. Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry. So anyway. Anyway, yeah, you should you should start.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Anyway, I'm sorry for interrupting you.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

So, yeah, so anyway, we are out here living lives out loud and being a lot and just um enjoying things and also shaking things up because one of the things, big lessons that we've learned in our lives is that we're at the age now, I call it the wisdom phase of life, where we get to try things, we get to try new things, we get to decide. Nope, I don't want to try that. Nope. That didn't work for that. That's not me. I will not jump out of an airplane, won't do it. That marriage gotta go. No, gotta go, gotta go. This country, gotta go. Get on the flight, move abroad. Absolutely, we can do that. All those things. So, as you guys know, we have decided to do a summer podcast deep

Why We Chose A Summer Deep Dive

SPEAKER_01 4:35

dive. And the podcast is Into the Depths with Tara Roberts, and you can catch her on any of the streaming platform of the um podcast platforms. There is a link in our description. And it's a six-part series. We have been each week, we've been listening to two episodes and encouraging you to listen to those episodes as well. And instead of doing a retelling of what happened in those episodes, we've started talking about these. Um, in general, the podcast is about this um black American woman who decides to kind of move into how she's being called to what she's being called to do. And stemming from a photograph that she saw at the Black Zonian, the um National Museum of African-American History and Culture, she saw a photograph of these black scuba divers and was really intrigued. And that inspired her to go on this journey, personal journey, um, because to become a scuba diver, she had to do a lot of training and travel around the world to do this training. And she also said goodbye to the job that she had and became a National Geographic explorer. And so it's this, it's it's it's in line with what Leslie and I talk about on our podcast, and that is that joyful things are not always easy things.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

They're often quick.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

They they exactly. There's a long tail to them. However, they're so deeply fulfilling, and they're so deeply meaningful. And this is what Tara Roberts has found, and this is why we're interested in bringing this kind of summer series to you.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Today we're gonna be talking about the last two episodes of the series, episodes five and six.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

And six. So I hope you all did your homework.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Yeah, you know, Leslie is the is the teacher. You're gonna have the ruler. Did you used to get wrapped on your knuckles, but no, are you kidding me? In Jamaica and in Catholic school in the U.S.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Well, I went to public school and I I got my mirror working again. I mean my light working again. Good. I'm so happy for you. Even like now you, you know, kids have agency. Like you can't know corporal punishment, you'll go to jail. But no, we did not have any. But then to I, you know me, I was like a goody-goody, goody two shoes. I was always trying to please a teacher. Yeah, but that didn't matter in certain settings. Well, you're right about that. So they didn't care how good you were.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

They didn't care. As a matter of fact, they used the good kids as an example because they knew they could get away with it because the bad kids would have would have punched them.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

So, what did you think of episode five?

Episode Five Sets The Mission

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Do you have a pen the name of episode five? Episode five.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Was it healing? Episode five was called um healing. Healing, yes. Yes, because six was rooting, yes, healing.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

So I'm not gonna go into the whole synapses of episode five, but episode five took us back to Africa, actually, South Africa, where um Tara Tara Roberts and her team wanted to um, there's a rich history of Portuguese slave ships in um Southern Africa. And there was one in particular called the Sao Jose that they wanted to um look they wanted to find. Um, they had good evidence that the ship went down somewhere there, and um she and her team went to go go look for it. Let me just say, um, well, I mean this might come later, but I just have to say it right now. One of the things, and I mentioned it in a pre in a previous episode, uh, previous podcast, that one of the things that I really dug about this podcast episodes, these podcast episodes, is that it merged the scientific with the social aspects, with history, and you know, me being a science head, and sometimes things that are um archaeological or sociological or whatever, sometimes it may go over my head or doesn't hold my interest as much. But when they actually went and and secured actual pieces of the wood that they found at the bottom of the ocean, and then the scientific analysis that they undertook in order to identify it. In one particular case, they found that the wood from this ship that they found, the origin of the wood was found in Mozambique. And they went to Mozambique and looked at records and stuff, and in fact, noted that yes, it was in fact this the um the slave ship San Jose, and then they had a whole other experience when they got to Mozambique Island, which was the um slave capital of Mozambique, perpetuated by the Portuguese.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Yeah, yeah.

Finding The Sao Jose Through Science

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Um this one made me cry. This episode made me cry.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

It made the participants cry also.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

Yeah, um, because what happened there is the they actually went to the village where the enslaved were taken from and presented the chief with the artifact or facts that they found. Um and the chief asked them to do something for them. Um they he gave them a a bag, a um Kyrie shell encrusted bag with dirt in it, dirt from the place where the enslaved were taken. And he asked them to take it back to where the boat was found, to where the ship was found off the coast of South Africa. And in order to, and he actually said that the that the um the ancestors has been asking, they have been asking for this. And he asked um the the um archaeologists to take it back to the place where the ship was so that um their ancestors could be on their soil again and find home again.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

And rather they made a specific point. Uh his name is Senor Nogash. He was the most um the most senior person in that village. And he said, I am the ancestors are asking you, no, they are begging you to reunite them with their home. And in this episode, what an emotional reuniting and home going of this ship and its deceased inhabitants.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Um a point that really came out um with force for me is there's oftentimes the the the the searching, and this goes into episode six a little bit, but um the idea of it, but um, I'll just kind of stay on this end of it. The idea that it's not necessarily about finding your particular lineage because um, you know, these people were not tied to the archaeologists. I'm sorry, I don't remember his name. You're much better with those details than I. Well, I think that's a good idea. They're not tied, um uh they're not tied to his lineage. However, he was profoundly uh touched by being a part of creating this full circle for this group of people. So even though these weren't his people, this could not have unfolded in this way had it not been for him deciding to not kind of stay in the trauma of the transatlantic slave trade, but to think of it as um a place where we um diasporic Africans can be a part of the healing and the bringing full circle to some of these um these uh um wicked things that happened to them um in the past and and still, but okay. So I thought that that was such a powerful um kind of way of looking at his involvement. Um and it's not about kind of this individual kind of linear, how to does it tie back. I want to know whether it was, you know, my sixth, seventh, eighth grandparent. Um that that he found this this healing and this um he's he found himself so useful, do you know what I mean? In in bringing healing to to this group of people that he himself was healed by it.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

His name is Kamal Sadiq. That's right. Um he was one of the lead divers and divers with purpose. Yeah. Um yeah, he found a kinship. What I also want to mention is that the people of Mozambique, um, they're called the Macau people. And they are, um, I looked it up, they're part of the Bantu ethnic um group. Um but I just think it was so striking when they talked about the contrasts um that this whole exposition exp expedition presented to them, where here he was um a historian who is an expert in studying things of the past and the relationship to the present, where the Macau people said that they regularly speak about the people lost on the Sao Jose.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

They regularly speak about them in the present. You know, as you and I speak about Nana Ruby and Nana Lena and Nana Margaret. These are my great my grandparent mother and great-grandmothers who Angie knew well, of course, because we all grew up together. Um, but we speak about them as though they are here because their memories are here and they are present in our in our bodies. Well, these people, the Macau people, likewise spoke about people who were there generations ago and lost in the Sao Jose. So it was so touching um for um Chief Senor Nogash to ask for this seemingly symbolic um reuniting of the people lost to um the people present. The contrast of it was also um striking.

Homecoming Ritual And Shared Grief

SPEAKER_00 16:58

The other thing about contrast that I want to mention too is how often they spoke about how to learn and speak about this without feeling the dread and despair that could come with such revelations and knowledge. Um, I know in chapter four it makes me think of it and I get emotional thinking about it when if you think about it, we're speaking about ships full of human people, human beings that went down in rough seas. And this is not a sit Gilligan's Island sitcom. You know, these are human beings who was taken, who were taken, who were stuffed together in the bottom of ships, and then the world is crashing around them, and they meet their death shackled next to each other. It's unimaginable. Yeah. Yet we need to talk about this.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

400 years this went on. It wasn't like uh, oh, over this 10-year period or for four hundred uh years. America just celebrated their 250th anniversary. It was almost twice that time that the this transatlantic slave trade was underway.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Yet we're told, why do you keep bringing this up? Why is this important? Oh, forget this is going to make us feel bad.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

So let's take it off websites and plaques and ceremonies of remembrance. No need to remember that.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

Yeah. Yeah. And in in, I'm gonna tie it too to the indigenization conversation that we had last time when we when Tara was in Costa Rica, and this idea of the the um African um Costa Rican young divers being the ones to go and to take the artifacts out. It's it's it comes from their lineage. But in the same way, um the importance of representation in this work, right? I don't know that things would have gone down this way if it was um someone who wasn't black who was involved and who was would be willing to participate in this um closing of the circle um as um as this guy was. Do you know what I mean? And so one of the ways that he talks about um um dealing with this type of traumatic situation is that how important it is to be a part of telling the story and be a part of um having the story constructed in this way versus um ways with people who are not of the story, right? Yeah who are looking at it from this perspective of the Danish or the Portuguese or the you know who don't have connection. Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Because what we are asked to do here in America with this administration when the truth is hurtful, maybe that's the time for correction.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Yeah, yeah. You know, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I always wonder whenever people are like, well, don't don't don't talk about this. It's gonna make people, it's gonna make um, you know, white children feel a certain way. And and I'm like, well, guess what? There were um uh abolitionists that you could talk about. Those were, you know, good um good white people, right? I mean, you could tell this, you could tell the history and tell the history of the people who are trying to fight against it. That could be a part of the telling too. And wouldn't that make your um your pe your children feel great? You know, there is a way to tell the history that includes that, but that's that's anyway, anyway.

Episode Six Returns To North Carolina

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Um episode six. What did you think about it? Episode six, let me know. Which was rooting. Rooting.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Yes. So episode six is the last in this series, and Tara Roberts actually returned to her roots um in rural North Carolina.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

North Carolina. Yeah. What was it in um Edenton, North Carolina?

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Edenton, North Carolina. And what was interesting, and here's another contrast. You know, it's I had the same experience when I went to visit my cousins and my aunt and uncle in Virginia. When I was a um younger, every summer we spent some time there with them, and it was a hot, steamy, mosquito, kind of boring place. And this, and we had to, you know, this is I saw the um the house recently that we used to go to. It's this tiny, tiny ranch that seems so huge. Because I had four cousins, so there were three of us, and then the parent. But so getting back, Tara describes this place as nothing but cornfields. You know, it was hot, it was steamy, and not much to do when she was young. And she went there with a new eye and new appreciation. Get this, her, this was her mother's um parents' home. Her grandfather Jake, now how many generations ago? This is three now, um purchased a hundred and eighty acre former plantation. Talk about full circle. And on it were acres and acres of corn being grown and other grains, and and as far as the eye can see. And she went that now into this place that was in, you know, disrepair with holes in the wall, but she went there with a different vision and a different respect for it. Because remember, in previous episodes in this podcast series, she lamented that she might not actually know or find out from what country she's from or where her people were from, or from, or what was more important to her, which ship her people came in on. Um, but this gave her some sort of solace and some appreciation of the victory that her grandfather um attained by, could you imagine, purchasing a former plantation that held slaves, enslaved people?

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Yeah,

Africatown And Proof Of Black Power

SPEAKER_01 24:11

yeah. You know. And one of the things that made this even more profound for her is that she went to um uh Alabama, it was, in Africa Town. Yes. Yes. Um, because that is where you guys probably have heard of the the um slave ship called the Clotilde, which was the last ship to bring enslaved people to um America. And it was done after this um the slave trade, the transatlantic slave trade was abolished. So they um they brought these enslaved people and they purposefully because they wanted to hide the fact that they're gonna be able to do that. They burnt the ship, and so but the point of it is these people, these Africans that they brought to to the coast of Alabama, is it Alabama Liz? Yes, um, Alabama, um they were only enslaved for five years because five years later emancipation happened and they were free again. So five years after being brought over from the continent, they're now in America and they're free.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

And so they create within nine years after within nine years, nine years. Nine years, nine years. Just thinking of things that think of you nine years ago.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

With all this stuff, all the stuff that you have access to. And my car is more than three dozen homes, a church, a school, a graveyard, a political system, uh-huh, a graveyard.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

And then trying to tell you, and these are ignorant African people.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Can you savages with no, you know, everything they knew they were taught because their enslavers taught them. It was a it was a mutually beneficial relationship they had. Everything everything that they they came with nothing. So in that context, Tara now learning that the these um formerly enslaved people created this community, Africa Town, and their descendants know the entire history because these people would remember what it was like coming across the ocean in the belly of a ship.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

And this is just what uh 150 years ago? Yeah. 1860s.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

So they know exactly where they came from. And so in this context now, um, Tara goes back to their kind of their um her home place. And Leslie, it reminded me of your family land in North Carolina as as well. Um, but that so this idea that um, you know, I don't even want to talk about all the ways that black folks are caricatured um in America in particular, um, and how much evidence there is that it was so far from the truth.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

So far from the truth to count as these narratives. And when we don't speak about them, we can we should not wait and expect others, colonizers and and and Jim Crow supporters to tell the story of this richness and the ability of these people nine years after their freedom to create a whole town. It just reminds me of um what's the town in North Carolina? Um Black Wall Street. Oh, yes, no um in Durham. Black Wall Street. And um no. Where? I'll I'll think of it. Okay but um it it just reminds me of the times and the many stories that all

Wilmington Coup And The Fight Over Memory

SPEAKER_00 28:17

the time. Oh, you're talking about in in um in Wilmington. I'm talking about Wilmington, yes. The Wilmington massacres when it post in um during the Reconstruction, yeah, blacks and whites lived just fine. In fact, CBS News, CBS Morning News just did a um, it was the only successful coup in America. Yeah. Successful why? Because there was no redress, no recourse, there was no the people, the government sided with them. And um, but the point is that the people lived next to each other and they had their own banking systems and their own homes and when and their own governments and and they they eat newspapers and they worked side by side in um politics and all. And there's a group of people that said, this can't be, and literally massacred.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Massacred. They said they wanted the river. I think it was the Cape Fear. They wanted it to run red with N-word blood, is what they said, and they massacred. I'm I'm so glad that you referred to this as massacre and not race riot, because that isn't like the most successful. Exactly. That's not what happened.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

It was a coup. And it was the most important thing it was the only, only successful coup because the government sanctioned it. Yeah. There was a there's evidence. There was no, it's very clear what happened.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Yeah. And it's recorded because some of the people who were in the militias that um that um became the murderers, they actually got deputized. So all of it is in writing what they did to cre to to um uh to create this coup. All of it was is documented. And um I'm gonna put a link to this documentary. Um it was it was just a fantastic work of history and storytelling that um I it might be fire in Wilmington or something like that. I'll put a link to it. Um, but I saw one of the early showings of it that unearths all of this um detailed, documented, um, where they can say exactly which black families should receive reparations, because that's one of the arguments that, oh, we don't know who to give it to, and we, you know, that's one of the arguments against reparations. Um, well, even in cases where it is very clear whose families were kicked out, whose families owned newspapers, um were killed, or um escaped to the north, they still will not repair. That's what reparations are. Reparations, they still are not interested in repairing um thievery, tifin, tiefin-ness. They're still not interested in in in repair.

Witnessing Trauma Versus Protecting Ourselves

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Um, so I this series has I'm one of those people who and I think you may be different um in this, Les, who I can watch tragic histories. No, okay, I can watch tragic histories because for me it almost becomes uh how dare you! You can you can turn away. But the people who suffered, you get the privilege to turn away. And all you have to do is sit and watch and be ready to tell, and to and to be a part of the let's say the um, you know, um educating because now you know, or changing how you live your life because now you know. That's what is required of you is to watch, is to be a witness.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

It's so funny that you recognize, and well, you've always known, but you pointed that out at this point. What was the um the religious um the movie showing um The Passion of the Christ? The Passion of the Christ. I couldn't watch it. You couldn't watch it. No, I could not watch this.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

I could not watch Hotel Rwanda. Yeah. Couldn't watch it. And for and for me, it's like you almost, you almost have to. You almost like to.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

I remember your explanation to me at the time why you kind of pushed me to watch it, which is why you said, well, Leslie, think about the suffering that went on at that time, and that's not nearly your suffering, essentially, of watching it. All you have to do is watch it. And what I said to you is that I don't need to watch it to imagine the horror of it.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

And much like Hotel Rwanda, I know what happened back then, you know, because I've I'm aware of the stories. Yeah. And just like this, I know what happened. But what the reason why I need to guard my eyes and my ears is because I get haunted by these things. And I that's an appropriate response to be haunted by them. But the burden is a bit much for me.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Yeah. And you know, just to kind of take this idea of the the of the haunting, right? Because I think that was a big part of um what came up in these last two episodes of Into the Deep, is um that trauma has a way. I'll say it this way, it's not quite how I mean it, but trauma has a way of winning when it's not exposed, when it's not looked at, when it's not dissected, when it's not um, you know, reimagined, when it's not um, okay, who's wearing the white hat, who's wearing the black hat, you know, is it really that clear? All of those things it is the facing, and that's what these people did, these divers did, and that's what Tara did, is to make the decision to view trauma in a way other than um other than a silencing or a um it's not I'm not saying that it is the alternative is to dismiss it. That's not the point that I'm making. It's a much you know sharper point than that. The point is that how how do you move in traumatic spaces? How do you move in them to elicit um strength, to elicit the story of resilience, to elicit the stories of of survival that becomes the thing that we need versus seeing it as trauma that is so hard to deal with? Is there a way to go in? And I think that's what Tara was looking for. Is there a way to go into these stories about these 1.8 million um Africans who were um brought to their deaths on on these oceans? Is there a way to explore these stories without um in spite of, and you and I talk about things like fear, that how do you feel the fear and move into it anyway, right? Yeah. That to me is kind of in in a very kind of parallel thing here. How do we move into these stories and these knowings of trauma um with a perspective of getting some other parts of the story out, you know what I mean, that are healing.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

That are healing.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Yeah, balance.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

You know, balance because in all of this, as sad as it could be and heartfelt, there's beauty in it. Yeah, absolutely. There's beauty in it, too. Yeah, you know, for sure. I love stories of triumph and victory in spite of.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

Yeah, yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

Me too. And and that's why I think of of myself and my people as triumphant people. Yeah. That's why, um, and this is a whole other podcast when we talk about leaving America.

Leaving America And Reparations Talk

SPEAKER_00 37:15

Um, there's so many people that say, This is my country, I'm never leaving. I'll stay and triumph and fight. And I'm just tired. I'm old and I'm tired.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

I'll leave the fight with the young people. And and and the world, the world um owes us. We we um the enslaved, as we know very clearly, were taken to all over the world. And so there's no part of the world where black people have not played a role in making it where the way that it is now in in creating great wealth, in creating great culture.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

Yeah, we've been in the Caribbean and exactly.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

So go out there for a reason. Go out there, go out there, live your live your whole full life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

And they can send my reparations airmail. You got it. You got it, baby. Anyway, anyway.

Homework Check Feedback And Closing

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Interesting, right? You guys have to tell us what you thought about this series. And I reminded Ange, but we did not come prepared to tell you the next podcast that we're gonna do to close out the rest of the summer or you know, or part of the summer. But um but we'll we'll let you know. But have you guys been doing the homework? Tell the truth, you know. Tell the truth, talk, speak the truth. Did you do the homework? What did you think of it? So I I it was a good choice. And I don't know if you guys heard about the very first um episodes one and two, but in that episode, I started listening to the wrong podcast, and that was traumatizing, and I'm like having nightmares and all of this. It was the whole wrong thing. But I got it right, I regrouped, and the next one is gonna be really good too.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

So I think we're gonna go into something a little lighter next next um next episode. But we thank you for joining with us and doing this experiment. Um, let us know if you like it. You want us to do it again, you want us to go deeper. How, you know, we we we love the feedback. We think feedback is actually very um um very uh thoughtful and beneficial for us and kind. We consider feedback to be kind because it helps us to um very specifically improve. Yeah, yeah. So give us your feedback. All right, Les.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

And wait, wait, wait. What what you know when I start laughing. What do you think about Angie's lighting? Yeah, just wondering. Asking for a friend.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

Listen, Leslie visit me soon, she's gonna bring me better lighting. And until then, thank you, thank you for your um understanding.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

And this has been another episode of Black, a bright episode of Black Humo Nestis Homo Brooklyn, Brooklyn.