Finding My Religion
We're a podcast that asks the question, "What do you believe?" We talk with people to find out how they grew up, what they think about today, and where they think they'll be in the future. Faith, religion, and spirituality are all such personal journeys. We're honored to be able to tell people's stories, no matter the belief.
Finding My Religion
Don Phelps: Life Before Ministry
In this season of FMR, we are focusing on my Dad's faith journey. In the first season we heard from him at a time in life when he was still figuring things out. Three years later, we focus our entire season on his religious path.
Episode 1 covers my Dad's nervousness for this project. How are his former colleagues in the LCMS church going to perceive this? How will his former parishioners view this? We also dig into his childhood to find out how present religion was at home.
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Welcome to Season 3 of Finding my Religion. My name is Myles Phelps. How are you nervous about doing this at all?
Speaker 2:A big part of what I want to be going into in my next chat is a big component of that is willingness to share your story. Growing up, identifying as Christian, I didn't know squat. We're adults, now we're parents. I guess we should be doing the whole church thing.
Speaker 1:What would you tell your younger self? Be careful of being tunnel vision. In the first two seasons of this podcast, my goal was to talk with family, friends and strangers on what they believed and why. It was truly an enlightening experience listening to people share something that we typically avoid in public circles it is taboo. After all, I had the opportunity to speak with Christians, jews, mormons, muslims, atheists, pantheists, agnostics and even a Wiccan priestess. Each conversation I learned something about others and the reasons why they came to the conclusion that they did, and in turn, it helped me start to form my own beliefs. However, time and time again, I heard from you, the listener, that one episode stood out above all others Don Phelps, my dad, and that's our focus in season three of Finding my Religion.
Speaker 1:When I was a kid, my dad's journey through religion wasn't weird or different. He was a pastor in the Lutheran Church, missouri Synod. I was a pastor's kid. That was normal. Some dads worked in banks, law firms or in sales. Mine worked on Sundays delivering sermons to a full congregation of people looking for guidance in their faith, and he was really good at it Like really good. His speaking ability would put people on the edge of the pew. His unwavering faith would guide people in times of pain and struggles, and his ability to answer the tough theological questions was always comforting to those he taught. But that was a different time. No longer a Christian, my dad is focused on his mental health, recovery for alcoholism and helping others in their addiction struggles. This is his story of change and the goal of this isn't to change your mind for whatever you believe. Rather, it's to demonstrate that it's okay to find new areas for your personal faith. It's okay to be wrong. It's okay to change your mind and gather more information. It's okay to find your religion. Dad, how you doing.
Speaker 2:I'm doing well. Thanks for the invite.
Speaker 1:Do you want to give just a brief overview of who you are and your name, all that good stuff. Yeah, yeah, my name's.
Speaker 2:Don Phelps, uh, 63 years. I do have two grown children. One is on camera right now, uh, his younger sister is Paige. Uh, they both live in the, in the, in the, in the vicinity of me. I live outside of Chicago, probably about 45 minutes West, southwest, uh, my house obviously up in Madison. My daughter is in Lake Valley, illinois, so we're all within a couple hour radius of each other.
Speaker 2:Grew up in a town of Sycamore, which is a little further west than I am right now. Miles and Paige also grew up in that town. Went to college in Denton, texas, university of North Texas. Majored in music education. From there, worked for a theme park called Wet n' Wild. Majored in music education. From there, I worked for a theme park called Wet n' Wild, currently operated as Hurricane Harbor. Did that for 10 years and then did a little bit of a left turn into the ministry which I'm sure Miles will get into during the course of our discussion From there.
Speaker 2:I left the ministry due to a couple of different things We'll also touch on. I'm sure I'm currently working for a corporation that's located in Chicago, but I recently announced my retirement. I'm going to be leading the corporate sector next month and then going to be doing some training to become a certified recovery support specialist. So also part of my journey. I'm a recovering alcoholic but I've decided I want to kind of pursue a part-time job that allows me to kind of give back a little bit and help others along the way. So it kind of brings me up to current. I'm going to be getting married again in a couple of weeks, recently relocated to the town of Plano, illinois. Yeah, that's about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a lot of big life changes all in the next month. Congratulations on retirement, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I look forward to that, but yeah, this whole season is just going to be about the why behind your journey. I think that one of the things that resonated with your first episode and if you haven't done that, we'll definitely link that in the show notes, but go and listen to that, because I think that what's interesting about the person that I talked to then, like you were living with us at the time. You were going through some life changes and it feels like over the course of the last two or three years, you're almost like an entirely different person from like you know who am I, what do I believe, what are, what are my core values. And I think what resonated with people the first time was that you were a leader in a, in a church, and we're teaching people and this whole thing has all been about it's okay to change your mind. It's okay, it's hard, but it's okay, and some of the teachings that come from any religion kind of make that hard sometimes, and so it's given people the flexibility to do that and find the safe space that they see Like, oh, my leader, who took me through confirmation, is maybe having doubts or has taken a different turn in life. Maybe it's okay for me to do it too. So that's the context for this, and I think it's really interesting and it's resonated with a lot of people. That's great.
Speaker 1:So the first question, and so what? What I did was I got a bunch of questions. So we're going to have probably six to eight episodes in this, and every episode is going to be about a different section of your life and your journey. So we're going to start with the beginnings of you as a kid, go through that whole thing and then work up to where we are now. And so these questions were actually sourced from friends and family that listen to the podcast, that have always found your story very interesting and just want to know more about. So not all these questions are coming from me, so I can't take full credit for that, but I think that they're really interesting and hopefully will spark some just like thought process for other people too. So the first question for you are you nervous about doing this at all? Like this is a really big thing to open yourself up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a fair question. I appreciate you asking. Yeah, I'm nervous on a certain level from you know, I am somewhat standing naked in front of your audience. So yeah, I'm having to share a lot of personal. But you know, on the flip side of that, I think anytime somebody can share their journey to your point earlier I think it's beneficial for people. I think it's beneficial for people.
Speaker 2:A big part of what I want to be going into in my next chapter is as a recovery support specialist. A big component of that is willingness to share your story. That role is not clinical. I am not teaching people how to get sober. I'm teaching people what does life look like, what does your journey look like? That's all from my experience like, and that's all from my experience.
Speaker 2:So, to your point, yeah, it's a little, you know, a little nerve wracking to stand in front of somebody and kind of share your life's journey and open up, so to speak.
Speaker 2:I think also there's an aspect of nervousness in that I do not want my sharing of my journey and where I'm at today to have any kind of a negative impact on anybody along the way in my past, most specifically past parishioners because my journey has nothing to do and I don't want to have anything to do with their journey per se. I don't want my belief system today and how it's really done at 184 was to have a negative impact on what they believe today. What they believe today, god bless them for that and I don't want to take that away. I don't want to shed any negative light on whatever their belief system is today. I want them to know that, as they knew me previously, it was genuine, it was from the heart, there was no purposeful misleading. But my journey has taken me to a completely different place today. So those are the two areas where, yeah, it's a little bit of the nerves are a little heightened, for those two reasons is not about casting blame on a specific religion or sect of religion.
Speaker 1:I have a lot of disagreements with how I was raised and what we were led to believe, but that doesn't mean it's all bad. There's bad aspects in my opinion, but this isn't meant to make someone else feel uncomfortable about where they are in their faith. Life's meant to to make it okay to have questions and exactly for answers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I will take the l here. I should have told him to turn off his phone. This generation man, we're good starting off, great, yeah, um, so what. Like to back to that question about nervousness, what would be like when you, when you, think about that feeling, is there scenarios that you run through your head that bring you to that place of either being nervous or maybe fearful about how this might be?
Speaker 2:perceived point. You know, if there was a certain sermon or something that I did in the ministry that they they have a memory of and it's a positive memory, is that going to cause doubt in their mind of, okay, he was saying this, that he was at all bullshit, you know? Was that genuine or was that not? That's, I think, where the fear is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Yeah, I think it would be hard to be ingenuine, going through pastoral school for four years and to try as hard as you did. That's like a psychopath behavior. So we talked about past parishioners that went to your church and how that might you feel. How about past colleagues? I mean, I'm I'm still Facebook friends with you know a couple of your, your past colleagues or people that you might've went to school with. I mean, how, how do you feel about them? You know, maybe listening to this, you know, I think there's going to be a certain.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, I spend way too much time thinking, you know I wonder how this will be perceived. I wonder what they'd be thinking. And you know, having been in that, you know gone through seminary and been in the pastoral ministry for 10 years, it's almost like I know what the response is going to be. And they always lost his faith. You know he's gone off to the deep end. He's following Satan now not so much, you know, in a devil worshiping way, but he's. I've really gone off the path, devil-worshiping way, but I've really gone off the path and I have no control over that. You know I really I have not been in contact with most of my class in many years. I don't have any negative thoughts at all. I mean the seminary years. Those were great years. I met a lot of great people in the ministry. But our paths have just gone different ways now. People in the ministry, but our paths have just gone different ways now. But yeah, I think the past theologian in me is almost anticipating what the response would be from a theological standpoint.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, it's a shame, in a way, that you wouldn't be able to. Well, I guess that's a question. Is there anything you could say that would even spark a conversation? Where they're coming from a different place of theology and it's hard to get around Doing this for the past couple of years. The thing that always comes up that you can't really overcome is any sort of fact. It's just it is that. So is there anything that you could say to past colleagues that would at least spark a conversation, so that they would understand, maybe, where you're at in your current life?
Speaker 2:I think you know I could sit down with any of them. I think we would have a very open, honest dialogue, but at the end of the day, the position is going to be I'm going to hell. You know I have lost my faith, I've turned my back on the faith, and you know, god bless them for having that passion in them to be looking at an individual who they genuinely feel for and they don't want to be eternally damned. So I mean, they're coming at it from a very genuine, heartfelt place, but it's going to be hard for them to get past that and not see anything other than this is a lost soul. This is. You know, what can I do as a current pastor to reach him and try to get across to him that he's going to eternal damnation.
Speaker 2:And again, I don't look upon that kind of a perspective negatively because they're true to what they believe, and I've heard that said about conservativeians that, um, I think it may have been pender teller one of the two of them is is a very, very probably the one that talks yeah, yeah, yeah, probably. But you're right, um, my understanding is he's a very, very committed atheist. Yeah, but he has come out and said you know what. He has more respect for a conservative christian who is, you know, who vehemently believes that you know what, apart from Christ, you are destined to damnation, and is committed to proclaiming that because they have a genuine care and concern for others, as opposed to a Christian that doesn't, you know this kind of waffles back and forth and really, really doesn't care.
Speaker 2:I don't know if that makes any sense or not, but that resonates with me that, yeah, I think any of my past colleagues they're going to be coming at it from very much a standpoint of care, concern and love, but there's going to be no embracing. Where I'm at right now, there's not going to be a. Okay, well, you can believe that way I, we believe this way. It's going to be a brother. You know what can I do to go across to you, what can I do to reach out to you and get you back on track?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like the there's two sides of, like somebody that wants to be right and somebody that has faith that they're right but also wants to help. From their perspective, have you always had that perspective? Cause, like hearing this, it makes me a little angry and it feels like maybe faith can sometimes get construed as this sense of superiority. It's like if you walk down the street and you see an unhoused person, I have a house, you don't you might have compassion for that person, but I'm still going to go home, and so you might have this sense of like. It's almost like this oh, white savior, is what I'm trying to think of. Like giving money to somebody on the street and then feeling like really good about yourself, I helped out this person, when in reality you don't know anything about that person.
Speaker 1:It seems similar. Maybe it's a bad analogy, but it seems similar in this context, because it's like why do you think that you? Why do I need saving? What is? That would be the question that I would have and that would make me really angry. So did it take you a long time to get to the place where you are now? Where?
Speaker 2:you at least understand where they're coming from and can be, um, okay with with them not wanting to engage, oh, very much. So, yeah, I cause I, I, I get it, I and you know again, I. For them to look at me and say, well, don, what you're believing, you know, that's okay, brother, that's what you believe, that's okay, that would almost be incongruent with who they are and what they believe. For them to say that's okay. No, what they believe is it's not okay, because according to conservative Christianity, biblical-based Christianity, I'm going to hell. So for it to be okay with them would be, you know, that would concern me almost. If they came at me any other way than heartfelt concerned that I am destined to eternal damnation, that would concern me. Probably, not that it makes sense or not, but if I truly love you, what you're doing isn't okay because I don't want that for you yeah, unless they're willing to get out of their current job.
Speaker 1:It's almost bringing you comfort to the fact that, like, okay, things like I understand where you're coming from. It's comfortable that you, you, you're saying what you're saying and if you don't have the responses that I'm anticipating, then it's like well then, why are you doing what you're doing? It's such a backwards way of thinking about it. But that's, that's what it, that's what it is. I guess Right, it is, yeah, yeah. Do you know anybody else that either you went to school with, at the, at the seminary or otherwise, that maybe not like a similar journey, cause yours is very unique, but like, has themselves gotten out of the ministry in some form or fashion?
Speaker 2:I don't know firsthand. I would be shocked if there weren't, you know, a small percentage, but I don't have any firsthand knowledge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd be interested to see, like, what the data is behind, like if you looked at like a 10 year period, if you just look like the 2000 to 2010, like how many people went to seminary and how many people are still in that job, and then dig like how many people are still religious?
Speaker 2:I think that'd be interesting. Who are still religious would really be interesting. That people leave the ministry. I mean, I knew people all the time that just you know it wasn't for them or they were just tired of the BS and more about the job than the actual job and about the faith. Yeah, I think there are. There have been people that I've known who have gone, you know, left that church body that I was involved in and gone to a less conservative. Yeah, that makes sense. I've known scenarios there. But who have completely done the 180 like I have? I don't have any knowledge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's interesting. So I was actually able to find some data on this. In 2021, a Barna Group survey found that 38% of US pastors had considered quitting full-time ministry within the past year, citing reasons such as immense stress, feelings of isolation and political divisions within congregations. The Hartford Institute for Religious Research also reported that 40% of clergy have contemplated leaving their congregation since the onset of COVID-19. Now for the LCMS specifically. There's not a lot of data on people leaving the faith completely, but there is a concern among the LCMS organization that they are losing pastors at an alarming rate. Between 2006 and 2016, projections indicated that around 200 pastors would retire each year, with an additional 100 leaving the active ministry for other reasons. And then a study from the late 1990s estimated that about 20% of LCMS pastors were in advanced stages of burnout, with a lot of other people approaching that state. And then, in 2018, a survey revealed that 47% of LCMS church workers had experienced anxiety or depression related to their ministry and 55% reported significant financial stress. Now, over the course of the last 14 years, the LCMS experienced a 59% decrease in pre-seminary Concordia University enrollment, which, in layman's terms, is pastor school. In 2022, more than 30% of LCMS congregations were seeking a pastor and did not receive one. Lastly, on this topic, there is an organization called the Clergy Project, which is a non-profit organization that was established in 2011 to support current and former religious leaders who no longer hold supernatural beliefs. Currently, there is 75% of their members who have left their ministry, but there is an additional 25% of their members who have left their ministry, but there's an additional 25% of the members who have lost their faith but are still employed in religious roles.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's talk about you as a kid. So you grew up with three brothers. You're the youngest of four. Your dad was a World War II vet in Iwo Jima. Your mom was also in the service. She passed away when I was a little kid. Your dad passed away almost at the age of 100 a couple of years ago. What was faith like for you growing up as a kid?
Speaker 2:Faith. Growing up as a kid, when I was really, really young, it was very much a Sunday event that we would get dressed up in our Sunday best and we would go to the local church. I was involved in Sunday school and then we would come home and there was no, that was, it was just something that we did on a Sunday and you got to remember. This is, you know, baby boomer era. This is, you know, the guys come home from the war, they get married, they have their house and their you know, 2.5 kids. This is just kind of Americana at its best. You know, this is what everybody around me is doing. Everybody goes. You know, we're not all going to the same church, but everybody's pretty much doing the same thing. That was the, you know, leave it to be very Ozzie and Harriet 1960s. You know, when I got older, when I was junior high, even in high school, where it's just myself at home, my three brothers had moved on. We weren't going to church as much my mom and my dad and myself but we were attending a local congregation. Looking back, it was a much more liberal congregation than I hadn't really no concept of liberal or conservative, but it was just the church we went to.
Speaker 2:I remember a conversation one time, and I don't know how this came about I was in the backseat of the car, we were going somewhere and somehow faith came up. It's the only conversation I remember with my mom and dad that was really about faith. I think it was maybe my mom asking me well, what do you believe? And I remember at that point I said I just I think you know there's multiple ways to heaven. You know, I don't think it's just one way. And my dad said well, you know, that's, that's exactly what the Masons believe. He was a Mason. So I got a little glimpse into them that they were very much a. It wasn't a. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. You know that there was only one way to god through through christ. Um, now had that now. But it was a very it was a very conservative pastor. I remember that at the time. I think if that had been, it was a Unitarian, universalist congregation. They are very open today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's that mean for people that don't know, because I don't really know, it's just very there is no, there's no hard fast rules, it's really, it's a multi-plural, or pluralistic, I should say multiple routes to heaven. You don't have to believe a certain way, but very opening congregation to the gay community.
Speaker 1:They were-. This is what, like late 60s, early 70s, this is early this is mid 70s.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that congregation, and I guess where I'm going with this. I think had that congregation and I guess where I'm going with this. I think, you know, had that congregation today or back then been what it would be today, I don't know that my mom and dad would have been attending there. In other words, had it been a woman pastor or you know, if they were embracing, you know, homosexuality in the congregation, I don't think we would have been there. But looking back, it was a very liberal congregation. We would have been there, but looking back, it was a very liberal congregation, point being that it wasn't this only way to heaven through Christ proclamation. But that's the only time I really ever had a conversation with my mom and dad about faith. It was a very short one, but it gave me a glimpse into what they believed, and they believed that there wasn't just one way. There are multiple paths. If, if, if you believe in God, then there's multiple paths to have a relationship with them.
Speaker 1:Did you think about that conversation when you were going through pastoral school as something that was like oh, they were my, my parents maybe were misled or or misguided?
Speaker 2:Very much so yeah, it was, you know, because you know again, you're going through seminary and it's a conservative church body and you know there is a there's a certain arrogance that comes with that and that you know, dude, I studied the New Testament in Greek. I studied the Hebrew. You know Hebrew Old Testament. I spent four years studying this stuff. I know I know the right way. I know what's there. So it's not an overt overreaction over feeling a superiority, but it is there. So whenever somebody like come across, somebody who says well, but there's multiple ways to heaven, I wouldn't necessarily confront them, but in my back of my mind I'm thinking, no, you're wrong.
Speaker 1:You're wrong, yeah, yeah, it'd be like. It'd be like somebody coming to me and my baseball buddies and being like we got, we got a trade back for hobby bias and it's like, maybe, but like that's a pretty bad idea, and here's why I know that. And you look at his slash line and and yeah, like there's the data right. Right, so you mentioned Freemasons. Um, how would you describe that to somebody that doesn't know what that is?
Speaker 2:because I feel like again before we talk about it.
Speaker 1:I feel like most people like their knowledge of Freemasonry comes from National Treasure with Nicholas Gates.
Speaker 2:Most of our founding fathers were Freemasons. It was a society that really believed in multiple paths. There was no one god. I shouldn't back that up. There was a god, but you could put whatever name you wanted on that. You didn't have to believe a certain way and it was just a society it was. It was a very fraternal uh, lots of good works. You know get together and do things. You know do things to help others. Um, not so much going on anymore, but that was, you know, again in the 60s, 50s and 60s. That was a huge, huge thing. You know a lot of the guys, dads were in the masons. That's what they did.
Speaker 1:That was their club so was it like a like a weekly club, like going to kiwanis or?
Speaker 2:yeah, pretty much yeah interesting.
Speaker 1:Did, did um, so we called your dad papa. Did papa ever uh talk about free mace, because it's a very secret society, right, like you're not really supposed to?
Speaker 2:no, he never did and you maybe shame on me for not, you know, asking some questions at the time, but no, he never, never really talked on it.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. I remember when he passed away. We're going through his stuff and we found the Freemason handbook and it looks like gibberish, like it's all in code or something right. Yeah, I think.
Speaker 2:I think we also found his apron. I think one of the parts of the ceremony is either you wear the apron in a ceremony or you're presented with it.
Speaker 1:Again, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah and then his wedding ring. He was remarried after your mom died, but the wedding ring that he had to your mom we called her Mimi I actually had that melted down, cause I felt weird about wearing like a Freemason ring, but I had it melted down and that's my wedding ring, so that was. That was a really cool thing too. Um, when you think about, like growing up and where you are right now, are there, like you mentioned, that, that story in the car, but are there any other like really impactful things that that led you either to make decisions through high school, college, before pastoral ship or even after pastoral ship, that, like you, you, you thought about or that you even think about today and relate to?
Speaker 2:Another incident. I guess I was kind of, you know, mentally on the treadmill thinking about our conversation today. I remember back in college I don't know a freshman or sophomore and on campus there was a guy who was preaching. He was in the quad area and he was firing brimstone and so forth. I remember being very vocal toward him about very much espousing what I'd learned from mom how can you say somebody's going to hell just because they don't believe the way you think they should believe? I remember being very demonstrative about that. And then you know, later on down the road, when I'm in the ministry, I'm basically in that guy's camp, not that confrontational and not that in your face, but the belief was definitely there. Confrontational and not that in your face, but the belief was was definitely there that if you're not a a bible believing, if you do not believe in the inspired and errant word of god and that jesus christ is the only way to a relationship with god, you're going to hell. And same message, just conveyed differently yeah, yeah, was there.
Speaker 1:because I, I uh, to my wife's chagrin, I've I found myself in those situations of like those idiots that sound outside of, like football games and like, if I have one too many beers, I find myself, you know, screaming at them if they say like the thing and usually it's about gay marriage is the thing that sets me off. But like what set you off? Like what made you respond. Do you remember what it was? What?
Speaker 2:set you off? What made you respond? Do you remember what it was Just calling? Making this proclamation that if you don't believe in Jesus, you're going to hell, and it went completely against my belief system. I did not believe that. Did I consider myself a Christian? Yes, but I didn't believe that, which also later, when I started having these struggles. Maybe I'm flash forwarding too quickly, but that became a problem for me in that, again, if you're going to be Christian, by definition, you believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven. But I was in the camp at that time of just yeah, I'm a Christian, but there's lots of different ways to heaven. Well, that's black and white. It's oil and vinegar. The Bible states very clearly if you believe the Bible, then Jesus is the only way. But I would have identified definitely as a Christian at that time, but not believing that, not believing that Jesus was the only way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really interesting and I feel like today it would be way easier to maybe hear a preacher on the street and if you wanted to go, you know, look up that church online and be like, all right, what the hell are these guys talking about? But at that time you didn't have that experience because you're old as hell. Thank you, love you too. I mean, you just retired, so how was it just the conversation that you had with parents and maybe going to church? That would like that was your data set, or was there any other things that you had done to like, like, reemphasize why you were upset with this street preacher?
Speaker 2:No, there really wasn't. Um, it was just a moment in time where what I was hearing was, I thought, reprehensible and antagonistic and arrogant, and I just felt compelled to engage with them. Half hour later I was probably thinking about something else.
Speaker 2:Yeah right something else that yeah right, yeah, I mean religion and and spirituality was just not a part of my, my makeup, really, yeah, but again, are you, what do you? What are you? I'm christian? No, but right, I didn't attend. You know, I didn't attend. Uh, you know church at all in college. So yeah, so no church in college?
Speaker 1:uh, did you so in high school? Was it like, were you supposed to go? Like where did you get in trouble if you weren't at church?
Speaker 2:No, I mean we went to and I really I went willingly, it was just something I did with mom and dad. Uh, I used to play trumpet quite a bit at that church you know special services and uh, I went through a confirmation class there. Uh, I had never forget the. Uh, the textbook was I'm okay, you're okay which was a very liberal theology book from the day, but that was pretty much. You believe what you believe, I believe what I believe and it's all good, so that was the thesis of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it really was.
Speaker 2:It's almost. I don't want to misspeak, rodney King, but why can't we just all get along? You believe what you want to believe. I'll believe what I want to believe. Yeah, and that was our confirmation text. A little different, rodney King or is that?
Speaker 1:Rodney King said that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, why can't we just all get along? I think maybe I'm misquoting.
Speaker 1:Oh, I don't know, I LA yeah, I just want to make sure you weren't misquoting like Rodney Dangerfield or something.
Speaker 2:Oh, no, no, no, no, no what someone can sit on a duck.
Speaker 1:That would be Rodney Dangerfield. That would be Rodney Dangerfield. Yes, okay, so it sounds like if you were to sum up your childhood and going into high school and stuff it was, you know, church was in the background. You weren't really a religious home, but religion was present, was. Was God ever talked about Like, did you pray before dinner? Was it ever talked about outside of church Like, hey, that was a really cool sermon today on the way home or anything like that.
Speaker 2:No, not really. It was just, it was a component of our weekly life. It wasn't, it didn't have, it didn't filter into or flow into any other aspect of our life. So we got up, we got dressed, had breakfast, went to church, came home and then, if it was winter, we sat around and watched golf or football or something on TV, or if it was summer, we went and did something else. But yeah, did you?
Speaker 1:did you know any like? Were your friends all christian? Like? Did you know anybody that either wasn't religious, didn't go to church or was maybe a different faith?
Speaker 2:um, what time frame are you talking about? Are you talking about it?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, like, like, I guess, like, and, and, if not, like. When was the first time that that may have happened in your life?
Speaker 2:Honestly, I, you know, I don't know that I really knew, you know, in terms of I mean close friends, I knew I mean a lot of. You know, my close friends were, were Roman Catholic and went to St Mary's, some went to a Methodist church. But you know, really, unless they were really close to me, I didn't know what. You know, I really had no clue what they would have done on a Sunday or even a Saturday, right?
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it really wasn't, did you ever talk about like with with your Catholic friends? Did you ever talk about like what it like, what's being a Catholic? Like, how, how would you get? Did you get information were you interested in? It just wasn't a part of it, sounds like wasn't.
Speaker 2:No, I really didn't. You know, I don't think we just didn't have those conversations.
Speaker 1:It was just something that I think we did with our, our parental units, but we certainly didn't have conversations outside of that so I guess like just sum this up too that it sounds like just like family at that time, when you're like what year are we talking?
Speaker 2:like 68 well, I mean, yeah, we're talking 66, 68, 69 in terms of you know, my brothers are home with me and we're you know, it's the white shirt and black tie and we're going to church as a family of six and so parents were just expected.
Speaker 1:So, like when you had a kid, you were expected to go to church. That was just part of the. I think that I think that expected to go to church.
Speaker 2:That was just part of the culture. I think that's just a part of the. It was a part of the culture, very much a part of the culture. And I think you know it was a part of the culture long before I was born too. I mean it was. It's been a fabric in this country for quite a while. That aspect of this is what families do. Yeah, we go and we worship at the house of worship of our choice. I mean it's very americana.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's funny because I was just having this conversation with some buddies in the golf course the other day about you know, uh, mom, uh text me every year and she texts page to my sister and asks like hey, what are you doing for easter? And like we'll text on the side I was like when's easter? Like we have to google it real quick because it's not a part of, like the fabric of my generation. But I was playing with two older gentlemen. They had, you know, one guy had like 40 family members coming over. They were, you know, doing this big ham. The other guy was doing something the night before where they got like shellfish or something, and so it's a part like it's another like 4th of July type of family get together for like people in your generation and older.
Speaker 1:But for my generation, like it's not talked about because Easter isn't a big thing unless you are somebody that is religious. And even if you are religious, it's not something that you plan your entire day around, unless it is like the point of the day. From like, your faith perspective, it's really interesting. Is there anything that, like you want to let people know about your, your upbringing and you, you know, even going through college or high school. Is there anything that was like, particularly something that was like I have to mention this or this is something that I wanted to get across?
Speaker 2:I got caught in? Uh, probably kindergarten. Uh after Sunday school. Uh, my friend Jeremy and I got caught in a? Uh in a trash can hiding from our parents.
Speaker 1:I do know the story. You guys are playing like football or something.
Speaker 2:No, we just horsing around. And you know, we got out of Sunday school apparently early and the parents were still in worship and so we went and we I mean we're our Sunday best you know this is. This is black pants, white shirt, skinny black tie. You can Google 1960s white people going to church and that's what you see a picture of. We were hiding this stinky ass garbage can. Just because it was fun.
Speaker 1:I got a vivid memory of that, yeah I mean, um, I don't know why you wouldn't have done that, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all kidding aside, really nothing else. It just seemed, you know, it's, it was just. It was just what we did during that era. Were there families who were? Maybe I had an application throughout the week. I'm sure there were, but you know, my experience was it was just something that we did at that moment in time in the week. You know, did we live out Christian principles? Did we try to help one? I mean, there's things that you would think would come along with, just that pan view of Christianity. Certainly, we consider ourselves Christian and we try to act accordingly, but there was no prayer at the table, there was no Bible reading before bed or anything like that.
Speaker 1:Right yeah, that makes sense. Wow, what a journey to get to that point. Right yeah, that makes sense. Wow, what a what a journey to get to that point. And a different childhood than mine, I will say I would agree it was very different. Where's Jeremy today? Do you ever keep in touch with him? What's?
Speaker 2:he. No, I wish I had in a trash can somewhere.
Speaker 1:All right, what's up, jeremy? Shout out to Jeremy. Yeah, jeremy, if you're out there, I'd like to hear from you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man.
Speaker 1:Hit us up, you can email us. Thanks for listening to episode one of Finding my Religion, season three with Don Phelps. Next week we'll be covering my dad's transition into family life and how having kids really set him on a different trajectory from a faith perspective. As a friendly reminder, it really helps out the show. If you subscribe to the show, rate the show, review the show on whatever platform you're listening to now, if you have a question for me or any suggestions, always feel free to email me at miles at findingmyreligionpodcom. That's miles with a Y, by the way, and we are all over social media as well Facebook, instagram, tiktok, and you can find all these links on findingmyreligionpodcom. You.
