Finding My Religion
We're a podcast that asks the question, "What do you believe?" We talk with people to find out how they grew up, what they think about today, and where they think they'll be in the future. Faith, religion, and spirituality are all such personal journeys. We're honored to be able to tell people's stories, no matter the belief.
Finding My Religion
Don Phelps: Faith After Family
In episode 2, we dive into my dad's faith journey after marriage and kids. How did his interest in the Lutheran Church and Christianity grow so fast? What drew him in? And what was the moment he knew he wanted to be a pastor?
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myles@findingmyreligionpod.com
Welcome to Season 3 of Finding my Religion. My name is Myles Phelps. Are you nervous about doing this at all?
Speaker 2:A big part of what I want to be going into in my next chat is a big component of that is willingness to share your story. Growing up, identifying as Christian, I didn't know squat. We're adults, now we're parents. I guess we should be doing the whole church thing.
Speaker 1:What would you tell your younger self? Be careful of being tunnel vision. This is the second episode of season three of Finding my Religion. If you haven't listened to the first episode, I would strongly recommend doing so. In the first episode, we talked to my dad about his upbringing. What was faith like? Was it talked about in the home? And we found that it actually wasn't. In the second episode, we're going to be digging into what brought my dad back to church as an adult and also why the Lutheran faith Was. There other considerations for different religions? And how the hell do you do research in an age where the internet didn't even exist yet? All that coming up next. So last time we talked about growing up in faith. This one's going to be more about you know what you did in adult life prior to going into seminary. What was it like around marriage and kids and things like that? Um, when, when did you get married? What year was that? Uh, 1983.
Speaker 1:Got it and so was there. Like I remember as a kid, when people got married in the church you would do like like pre-marriage counseling or you know, I don't think the Catholic faith does that a lot, right, did you and mom go through and to be clear, I'm talking about the marriage to my mom, so we're clear there Like what, did you go through any sort sort of pre-marriage counseling from a Christian perspective?
Speaker 2:who was going to do the ceremony was a family friend, so he had actually baptized mom, had married Lynn and Bob, heidi's parents, and so I think it was a combination of her knowing him and the distance. We did not. I think if it had been a different situation we'd been living closer. I think we would have gone through the kind of perfunctory you know premarital classes or functuary you know premarital classes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. Was there ever a conversation around like the place that you would get married in, Because obviously mom grew up in the same faith the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod. As you ended up entering as a pastor, Was there a conversation around what that meant? Or was it just like the convenience and knowing that person?
Speaker 2:I think it was. You know, it was just almost a given. I mean, you know, mom had deep, deep roots in that church and that congregation. I mean her, her parents were, were married in that church, she was baptized and her sister were baptized in that church, so and I didn't have those kinds of strong, you know, ties to any kind of a congregation. So it was almost a no-brainer. I don't even remember us really discussing. It was kind of like, you know, yeah, duh, that's where we're going to get married.
Speaker 1:Right, right, and you know, you were kids at that point right Like 20, 28, something like that 21. Oh, holy shit, we were kids, yeah, wow, I cannot even imagine getting married at 21 now. I just can't even fathom it.
Speaker 2:Just babies? Yeah, we were. We were very young, I mean we, you know, um, we got engaged when, uh, we were both juniors in college. Uh, mom was ahead of me but she had gone to, she had done her two years at a junior college first and transferred to where I was. So at that point we were kind of tracking the same in terms of graduation. But, yeah, in between, if I remember right, it was between August of 83. So we were in between. We're coming up to our senior year of college. Wow, which I know. Yeah, looking back it seems wow, we were just kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like normal if you go to BYU, but other than that it's not as uh, it's not like that anymore. It's kind of crazy.
Speaker 2:But yeah, and you're, and we're probably going to get into it. But you know, for me that was kind of what was modeled. For me it wasn't kind of this is what you should do. But I've got three older brothers who got married at the same same time in their life uh, you know, either in college or directly coming out of college.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, that was that time. That was unusual at all. I mean, and certainly my parents, world War II. That's what they did back then too. They got out of the service and they got married pretty fast.
Speaker 1:Was there a pressure from either of your families to get married, or was it just kind of like it's expected that that was the next step?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't even know if it's expected. It was just kind of that was just the model that I had in my mind and I don't know if you'd have to ask mom if she kind of had that same model in her mind. It was just kind of like yeah, this is the next step in life. We graduated from college. We're getting married.
Speaker 1:I assume kids were always a part of that as well. It's like that's the next step, or was that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, not initially actually. You know that kind of the, you know the desire to have had kids came about a little further down the road. But but again I says that's that natural transition in life to okay college and now married and then okay kids transition in life to okay college and now married and then okay kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it. You know, you kind of mentioned it, but it's like it seems like from the outside that that was like there there was a specific format that you guys were trying to fit into. You know, get married, have kids um, is that that fair, like that was just like the, the mold I think, yeah, that was just what.
Speaker 2:what we knew, um, certainly what I knew. I mean, mom grew up in a little different nuclear household than I did in terms of not having the siblings ahead of her kind of modeling what what grown-upping looks like, what adulting looks like, um, but I certainly did, and that's the only thing I knew was that model and that mold. Yeah, was there like an in-depth discussion of, all right, we've gotten married? Any young parent like that, especially first kid, you really are clueless, so you're reading books, you're learning from other people. So we really didn't other than just raising them as we had been raised. Maybe that was probably the best way to describe it. Again, that was our textbook, was how we had been raised.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So we get married, we decide that we're going to have kids. Um, the way that I think mom Heidi always talks about it is that there there wasn't really like a a draw to going to church. We talked about this in the last episode, even being a little bit angry at what you might hear on campus from preachers and kind of falling away from it. So she always talks about that. When we had kids, that was when we decided that we were going to church again. Is that what?
Speaker 2:you remember it's exactly right Again under the heading of this is what adulting looks like. I remember, you know you were born and it was kind of like okay, well, we're supposed to do the whole baptism thing, so we should probably get that done. We did that. A family, you know, back in Sycamore with a actually was a pastor of the congregation where we got married. A different pastor, but then we were living in California at the time went back to California and again the idea was we're adults, now we're parents. I guess we should be doing the whole church thing.
Speaker 2:And neither one of us had a strong tie to a specific, you know, denomination. You know, mom obviously was raised in the Lutheran church Lutheran Church, missouri Synod, to be more specific but I don't think she had a strong attachment to be going to an LCMS congregation. It just so happened, by fate, by luck of the draw, that was the closest congregation, the closest church to where we were living, so we started attending. We were happy with the experience and then I started going through the. You know, we decided, okay, now we were living, so we started attending. We were happy with the experience and then I started going through the. You know we decided okay, now we become members and within the Lutheran Church of Missouri Center, you go. If you weren't confirmed in that denomination, you go through some adult classes. So I went through the adult classes and I went for hook, line and sinker. You know, the pastor was a phenomenal guy. He was presenting the information in what I thought was an incredibly logical way and I was like, yeah, this makes sense, and so I was all in.
Speaker 2:Um like any one moment that you can remember where either you were confused on something and the pastor gave you like a really good answer that hit, or just maybe even a theme that you're like Ooh, christian, I didn't know squat. I knew the major stories, I knew what Christmas was, I knew what Easter was, but I didn't know any kind of significance. What does that mean? That Jesus rose from the dead? What does Good Friday mean? I was like that's kind of a weird thing to be celebrating this the day that they crucified God. Why is this a big deal? I think when those dots started getting connected, you know what good Friday meant. What Easter meant, um, the idea of sin, and I can't, I can't do enough to, I mean the idea that I am, I, I am sinful by act and by thought and word, and you do so, all that, that uh, theological presentation, but that the, the payment for that, was rendered on behalf of us by Jesus, and that was like wow, okay, I guess for me it was just illuminating to what all those major holidays meant, because, again, I didn't know anything about. I didn't know about you know, it goes to my my I think we were talking about this in our last episode was I'm identifying as a Christian, but I really am clueless to what that means. But I know I'm a Christian.
Speaker 2:Oh, somebody said well, what's that mean? Oh, I don't know, I believe in Jesus. So what? The? So what kind of got placed in my mind during these classes. Yeah, and it resonated at that time in my life it resonated. It was like, oh yeah, this, this shit makes sense. Was it a?
Speaker 1:um, Did you feel more comfortable with the world when you were going through that? What was the main attraction other than filling in the gaps of what is a Christian?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it made me understand, maybe, my place in the world, my place beyond the world. I'm here for a limited number of years, whatever that is, what's beyond that. It gave an answer to those kinds of questions, gave me some comfort in knowing that there is a there's a bigger plan in store for me other than this you know 60, 70, 80, 90 years that I'm on this earth.
Speaker 1:Was. So I just I find it really fascinating living in a time when, if you wanted to find something out, you either were maybe listening to a news broadcast, or 60 Minutes if they do a thing, or going to the library, but there's no internet. So now you could do a Google search of closest churches and then go down the like, what they believe, you know what maybe problems you might have. Was there any of that for you like any sort of like outside research, or was it? Is it that was the one that was just that was the one.
Speaker 2:It really. It really came down to proximity. You know, if I had drawn a circle around where we live, and I think we both had the conversation, well, you know, we can go methodist or we can go, you know, lcms, which even that conversation shows how little and I'm not trying to throw mom under the bus, but neither one of us really you know, there's a huge difference between those two denominations and what they believe, teach and confess, but to us it's like eh, which one's closer? Oh, lcms, okay, so we're going to go to the ultra conservative route. Um, and you know, and mom even said, you know, I'd come back from the thank you for saturday morning classes for a few weeks and I'd come back just like, wow, this is cool, did you know this?
Speaker 2:And she's like, no, I mean she, she went through as a, as a teenager, a preteen, really. You know, as a, as a, what age is confirmation? 10 or 11, 12, 13, somewhere in that 14,. You know as a, as a, what age is confirmation? 10 or 11, 12, 13, somewhere in that 14. So she went through as a 14 year old girl, probably retaining as much as not to throw you under the bus, but maybe retaining as much as you did. I mean, a youth at that time just is not. They're not in a place where that's just hitting them.
Speaker 1:They're not. Yeah, you're talking about like your soul and eternal self.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's like you know, people are going through cause they have to go through it. The kids are Right. So mom had that same experience. So I'm coming back, I'm just on fire. I'm just like wow. And she's like oh, I didn't you know to. You know, she did not know the stuff either. Um, so she was almost kind of learning alongside of me, and when I'm just, you know, on fire for it, she's like you know what's the big deal. And then we start talking and I start showing her what I'm learning, and then she starts to get even more um, ramped up about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, kind of feeding off one another as you're going through it.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and she's just at a different place. She's an adult now and it's it's resonating with her much more than it was at 14. Right, right. So, yeah, there was no deep study about. Okay, let's think about the LCMS. What do they believe, teach, confess, what are their social views? I mean, there was just none of that. It was like you go, you like their worship service, you like the people, they're friendly. Pastor's a good dude. Yeah, this works.
Speaker 1:Nothing beyond.
Speaker 2:Pastor is a good dude. Yeah, this works. Where were?
Speaker 1:you nothing beyond where were you at that time? You know, as you know, before going through confirmation and then, while you're in confirmation, you're like where, where did you stand on social values, like, did, did. Was that even a thought? Was it important in your life?
Speaker 2:not, it really wasn't that important. I was a you know in your life Not, it really wasn't that important. I was a, you know, died in the wool Republican, because that's how I was raised, that's what my mom and dad were raised. We were a Republican household. You know, if it was a choice between Republican, democrat, it was Republican, right. It doesn't really matter what the stance is or the views are or the positions. That was just kind of that was my mentality at that point Democrat good, republican bad. That was just kind of that was my mentality at that point democrat good, republican bad. But we really, you know, in terms of social issues, it just wasn't. You know, I wasn't open to that. My eyes weren't seeing of social issues, or if they were, it was, and not that big a deal. You know, right, probably a lot of stuff that people are bringing on themselves, kind of. You know, yeah, yeah, it doesn't. If you're homeless, get a job yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 1:so it sounds like we, there was maybe a foundation of of things from a family perspective, and then the church was the one at that time that was helping you form maybe what your belief system was, or like what your actual values were, because maybe the values weren't there before. Is that fair? That's a fair that's a fair statement.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, helped me to maybe form my formulate or maybe better understand where my values were at that point in life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how do you?
Speaker 2:feel or, or, or, maybe, maybe even I'm thinking out loud here, maybe more to the point of I really didn't know. Well, if the church says this is what your, my value should be, oh, okay, that's what my value should be, because that's that's what it says, that's what I'm, they are supposed to be, yeah, how I mean we all, like everybody on planet earth, can look at their younger selves and be like, wow, you, you really blew that.
Speaker 1:Or like I would have done that differently. But as you reflect on, like, this crucial moment of like understanding what your values are at that time, like do you like? What would you tell yourself? Like, if you were to talk to your younger self today, a person that's you know, going in married, is starting to think about having kids, or has a kid and trying to figure out who you are as a person, like what would you tell your younger self?
Speaker 2:Be careful of being tunnel visioned. You know the just because you grew up in this microcosm of society. Let's be honest, it was a white bread, you know um middle income kind of oh, not bringing California right At that, you guys were in California right at that time. We were in California at that point, sure, but in terms of my upbringing that was just the middle America kind of an upbringing, and so my view of the world was like this and if you're listening in your car, keep it in a small circle.
Speaker 2:That's right. This is a podcast, so this is kind of, you know, this is yeah, okay, yeah, I mean, it's just my worldview was very limited. You know, I thought I was worldly, maybe because I, you know, from a knowledge standpoint, history and all that kind of stuff, but it was very limited so I really had nothing to. I didn't have anything to challenge my, my worldview, because my worldview was so limited, yeah.
Speaker 1:I feel I mean I, I don't think that you're alone in that either. I mean, I went through that, you know, obviously, growing up in the same church that we're talking about. I thought I knew everything too, and then you go somewhere else. So you, you see something else. You have a an experience that you're like oh wow, like maybe, maybe I'm the problem or not even the problem, but like I didn't know this thing, so it's. I don't think it's an uncommon thing, so I don't want to make it seem like we're like I'm coming down on you for no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1:When you're 21, you know yeah, um, but yeah, I always think that's interesting of like not having value or not knowing what your values are, and then like finding that out in a way that led you to be a pastor.
Speaker 2:Like that's. That's kind of incredible. But the church, or the one I have experience with the LCMS in terms of what they call the adult confirmation class or adult inquirer's class, is to make sure people know when you're lining up with this denomination. These are the core beliefs. You don't want people saying yeah and they're only doing it because they like the pastor, they love the music or man, this is a beautiful church building. I want to be know what you're signing up for and, uh, from a social aspect, I, I did not, you know, in terms of where we line up liberal, conservative, all that kind of stuff. That wasn't. I didn't really I didn't grasp that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Do you have any regrets or or second thoughts, maybe about getting into religion? Post kids?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Uh, post kids, um, you know it. It kind of you know after, after we're probably jumping ahead a little bit. But you know, after I left the ministry, I was still. That was what I knew and I think it was my sense of identity was attached to the church. Uh, understandable, people that I knew were attached to church. So while I wasn't in the pastoral ministry anymore, that just seemed like a natural place for me to be. Um, you know, I got involved. You know, whether it's music or, eventually I had a job where I was kind of the business manager for a congregation Because, again, I was in an environment that I knew and I was comfortable with. At that point, even I still wasn't really willing. I was battling with some of the beliefs, some of the core beliefs, but not enough to completely walk away from it at that point, because that was, it was comfortable well, it's hard, if that's all you know.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, I think about it in two, in two ways. One is like I don't want to compare religion to cults because cults are fundamentally different, but there are some similarities, from why people don't walk away from Colts, because that's comfort and that's what you know, and so just Sense of community.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sense of community, or it's like you know. Another thing I always think about is like a professional athlete that's on their last leg and they just can't walk away and the thing that they always talk about is the locker room. They're going to miss that sense of community from that perspective. So it only makes sense that if you have the community, it's really easy to trick yourself from a value perspective, if you have that comfort already surrounding you, if you have that comfort already surrounding you.
Speaker 2:Exactly, yeah, pat Maroon, you know, just retired from the Blackhawks, he brings the sports in here. Yeah, he was. You know, his, his, uh, last game. He was just standing against the, the glass on the ice and they're interviewing. He said that this is, this is all I know, this is all I've ever known, this is all I've ever done, and he was walking away from it. Yeah, I think that's a good analogy really. You know, that's all I as an adult. That was all I knew, that belief system and those fundamental core values.
Speaker 1:So it started in those confirmation classes. Did you find yourself wanting to get more and more involved in the church, even outside of, and what? What did that look like?
Speaker 2:I was. I was all in, you know. So I got involved. I've started volunteering, I think eventually I became the treasurer of the congregation. Mom started getting involved, you know, volunteering as well. And then we moved back to Texas, got back to Texas and I, you know, pretty quickly we started looking around. At that point we knew we wanted that church body. So we did a little more investigating really more probably superficial in terms of the church and the amenities and the pastor and things like that but found a congregation again, jumped all in.
Speaker 2:I was playing trumpet constantly. I think mom was in a choir, you know you were little so I'm trying to remember if she was putting you in, maybe in number three and singing, but I distinctly remember being up in the balcony doing a lot of trumpet playing. And eventually I became on the board of elders, which is kind of a leadership, volunteer, lay, leadership position in the church body. And it was while doing that that I just felt I was just really eating it up. I was just loving it. I was loving to be involved in the church and I eventually was like boy, I wish I could do this full time. And that kind of became the discussion point for well, pastoral ministry. Maybe that's a good route for me to go.
Speaker 1:Can you talk about that first moment that you had that thought?
Speaker 2:Can you talk about that first moment that you had that thought? I don't know when I I mean I know the timeframe, but no, I don't really recall the first time, although I do remember there was a road trip from. We rented a minivan and we drove up to see Grand Moulin, so we went back to Sycamore On that road trip. I think I was really, you know, during all the time behind the wheel, was really starting to contempl grandma Lynn. So we went back to Sycamore on that road trip. I think I was really, you know, during all the time behind the wheel, was really starting to contemplate this. And I can't remember if I dropped that bombshell on mom during that trip or when exactly. Uh, cause I know her reaction was you want to be a what? Uh, and I know she told you the story, but uh, that was kind of the timeframe that it was really percolating in my head.
Speaker 1:Mom always talks about when you told her for the first time. One of her first reactions was I can't be a pastor's wife because I can't swear, I just find that really, really funny.
Speaker 2:She also tells a great story about she and her friends were talking about and she said something I'm paraphrasing. But well, one thing I know I'll never be when I grow up as a pastor's wife, and she always said well, god had a funny sense of humor, yeah right yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 1:Um, what was the thing that drew you to maybe thinking you wanted to do this full-time, like what? What was the big? I don't want to say selling point, but I can't think of a term.
Speaker 2:No, I think you're. You're on something there, I think for me, you know I have a, I have a passion for teaching, I love, I love teaching and you know there's a certain aspect of of the pastoral ministry that is very instructional as teaching. And I think maybe going back to when I went through the adult confirmation class and I had a pastor who presented the Christian doctrine in a way to me, I was like wow, I never knew and I wanted to have that same kind of perhaps impact on others. I think I'm able to get in front of people and do a reasonably good job of speaking. I'm able to get in front of people and do a reasonably good job of speaking. So it just seemed to me like a good use of my skill, my skill set, and then the passion that I had for the Christian doctrine and for having that be what I do full time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how did so? My sister Paige seven years younger than me, so at this time she wasn't around, so I was the only, only kid in the house. How did the church and what you're learning affect how you raised a kid at that time?
Speaker 2:Um, I felt it was. It was our, our being mom and myself, our role to reach you, raise you in a Christian household, because that's kind of what the expectation was, that was what we felt our responsibility was. So that's kind of the road we took.
Speaker 1:What does that look like? Because there's people that probably grew up in a similar household to what you did, where you know we didn't talk about Christianity or God. We went to Christmas and Easter, Maybe we go to mass, you know, with grandma once in a while, but like what is being in a Christian household look like in practice.
Speaker 2:I think, you know, in a perfect world it is, there's a, there's a direct connection between what's taking place during your worship, so Sunday, and the rest of the week. So it's not just a one and done, it's not just an aspect of the life, it is, it is your life, you know. I think everything really revolves around our faith, because that's what we believe.
Speaker 1:So were we like? I remember praying before going to bed and things like that, but until you became a pastor, I don't really recall, and maybe because I was too young, but I don't really recall God and church and religion being talked about. Was that something that you guys made an emphasis on?
Speaker 2:We tried. I mean certainly weren't perfect, but it was like I think we both knew there was. You know we should be doing this. How well we, you know, carry that out. It was. You know we'd go through spurts. I remember going through spurts we'd have like aional, we'd talk about something at the dinner table. That would go for a while, then life would happen. Then we'd stop doing that. Definitely.
Speaker 1:I think the yeah, so was was there anything at this time that you learned that made you uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:I think, anytime, I always had a tough time with homosexuality. I just and I think it's because I had people in my circle who were gay, so I just always had a tough time. You know, reconciling that, yeah, I could reconcile it intellectually and verbally, but I think in my heart and my core it was like, wow, I just really. So you know things like that. You just tend to kind of dance around, you know. Yeah, avoid it. I guarantee you never heard me preach about homosexuality from the pulpit, because I wasn't there, I couldn't do that.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 2:You know, I may be able to have a conversation with somebody. I could, certainly from a church's perspective, from a biblical perspective, I could. I could spout the theology Right, but to get up in the pulpit and have a sermon where you know you're you're I don't want to use the word condemned, but you're speaking on the topic of homosexuality. I, I never did it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Was. Did you ever ask that question directly to the person that you were going through confirmation with?
Speaker 2:I don't recall if I did or not. So it was just something that was kind of underneath the surface. Yeah, I think it was yeah, and I think you know kind of maybe outside, out of mind, kind of you know it's just, we're just not going to go down that road. I'm not going to talk about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting to go down that road. I'm not going to talk about that. Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting. So when? When did the final nail in the coffin, so to speak, happen? Of okay, I am leaving my job because at this time you worked for for wet and wild right? It's a water water park theme park.
Speaker 2:Yeah, brian, define, define what that is. So people don't think it's a strip club off.
Speaker 1:Um no, when wild was. Uh, I think it became hurricane harbor afterwards right, right on it yeah, um, but you were like a park manager or something. Yeah, so it's a good job, um, we had a house uh in in arlington, texas.
Speaker 1:That's such a drastic career shift, to not only say I'm going to do to not only do a new job but to say I have to go move to a different city for two years and then move again to do like an internship, come back for the last year of school. So it's a four-year program that costs a lot of money. You're not working really at that time, so it's a shift of everything that is normal for a family. How and when did you come to that decision that like, yeah, this is the best for me.
Speaker 2:I think you know, mom and I had the conversation which eventually emerged, like I said. You know, she was like what the hell are you talking about? And I kept just bringing it up. Eventually we went to a I forget what it used to call it, but it would be, you know, several days where you go as a prospective seminarian and get the lay of the land and talk to people and so forth, and so on. And then we did that and on the way back it was it was her going to that Cause I was again, I was like I, and I certainly wasn't going to force it, I, you know, if she had said hell, no, then I may have been disappointed but definitely needed her.
Speaker 2:You know, in my court on this, um to driving back, and after she had talked to some other seminarian wives and because I think for her thing it was like how is, how are we going to do this financially? How do we, you know, how do we put food on the table, so forth, and so on, and driving back, she said okay, well, you know, I think this may work, but we have to sell the house. We have to sell the house, you know, right, and her and her mind was if we can sell the house, then then we can do this and we put the house in the market and I think it's sold in a matter of a couple of days. And so she took that as a sign of okay, you know who might say no to this, yeah, yeah, backed up the car and moved to Beverly.
Speaker 1:I mean, it was just a you know we packed up all our shit and went north. I think the biggest thing, looking back like as a kid, is that you made me move to St Louis, missouri, and that's really hard to stomach as an adult, but you went to a few games.
Speaker 2:You didn't turn down going to see baseball A true. Cubs fan would have said hell, no, I cannot step foot in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that might be true, I was misguided. I guess you could say as a kid yeah, I remember going to see.
Speaker 2:Ozzie.
Speaker 1:Guillen at the tail end of his career. Right In typical Cardinal fashion, they were giving away a lot of free tickets. Yes, they were at that time Because they were a shit baseball organization. I do remember it feels like seminary was a good time for you guys.
Speaker 2:It really was. I look at those other than it was rigorous study, but it was a fun time. It really was. Some great friends, some great memories there.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to Season 3, episode 2 of Finding my Religion. Next week we're going to be digging into my dad's life, moving from a corporate job into seminary, aka pastor school. What was that transition like? Were there other people in his shoes? What were some of the things that surprised him to learn in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, and how the hell do they choose where to send you after you graduate? We also talk about his first church and what he learned, and we get into some of the more difficult conversations that he had as a pastor. As a friendly reminder, it really helps out the show if you subscribe to the show, rate the show, review the show on whatever platform you're listening to now. If you have a question for me or any suggestions, always feel free to email me at miles at findingmyreligionpodcom that's miles with a Y, by the way, and we're all over social media as well Facebook, Instagram, tiktok, and you can find all these links on findingmyreligionpodcom. Bye.
