Finding My Religion
We're a podcast that asks the question, "What do you believe?" We talk with people to find out how they grew up, what they think about today, and where they think they'll be in the future. Faith, religion, and spirituality are all such personal journeys. We're honored to be able to tell people's stories, no matter the belief.
Finding My Religion
Don Phelps: Finale
In the final episode of Season 3, we flip the script. My dad takes the mic to ask me the tough questions — the ones I’ve been dodging or quietly wrestling with since this project began. From growing up in the church to breaking away from its framework, from fearing hell to finding peace in uncertainty, this conversation is raw, reflective, and maybe even healing.
We talk about what it means to be agnostic, how parenting shifts our spiritual lens, and why it's okay — even freeing — to not have all the answers. Thank you for listening, for sharing, and for allowing space for conversations that rarely happen out loud.
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myles@findingmyreligionpod.com
Welcome to Season 3 of Finding my Religion. My name is Myles Phillips. Are you nervous about doing this at all?
Speaker 2:A big part of what I want to be going into in my next job is a big component of that is willingness to share your story. Growing up, identifying as Christian, I didn't know squat. We're adults, now we're parents. I guess we should be doing the whole church thing, the church fire. I can certainly identify that, the alcoholism that was present. It was full-blown.
Speaker 1:What would you tell your younger self? Be careful of being tunneled. This is the final episode for season three of Finding my Religion. Before we get into it, I want to send out a huge thank you to my dad for allowing himself to be vulnerable in this process and for answering some really tough questions. It's not easy to open yourself up for past experiences, especially if you've had some rough spots in your life. Religion is also not a really comfortable topic for people to talk about, so I really appreciate him for participating and I appreciate you for listening.
Speaker 1:One final note from a production side before I get into this last episode. I messed up again. I have the wrong freaking mic turned on, so the sound quality is not going to be as great. Also, my dad had his mic turned up to like Mach 10, so his sound's a little bit off too. But I think you'll get the point and hopefully it doesn't ruin your experience. All right, welcome back, dad. How are you doing? I'm doing good. This is it. Huh, this is it. We did the journey. Yeah, yeah, it's been fun. It's been fun to kind of see your thought process, and this one's going to be more about me. So we're going to reverse the tables and then see where that leads us.
Speaker 2:How comfortable are you with this? You're used to being in control.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not being in control is something I don't like, but I think it'll be cool. Oh, you're used to ultimately of the edit. So, that's true, I can make myself sound really really good. That's right. Well, I'll turn it over to you. Okay, just go through. And what are we thinking?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, you know I appreciate the opportunity. I had to actually put some thought into this when he first said you know I was going to turn the tables around, have you ask some questions to me? And I'm thinking, ah shit, I don't know. Really, I have a lot of big, profound questions, but the more I thought about it there was kind of a line of thinking that I was kind of wanting to go down with you and I guess first is just kind of revisiting the whole project. You know the whole finding my religion and I know you had an episode with Jordan, your wife, about this, but that's been a couple of years. So you know there may be some people listening to who don't even understand maybe the genesis, but why? I mean you, you've had some podcasts about the cubs, uh, the bulls. Now all of a sudden we're talking about religion. Uh, what? Yeah, what led to this? What? What was the thought process?
Speaker 1:I think, uh, at the time I was kind of, um, struggling with a lot of thoughts that I'd had since, you know, being a, being a kid, and that, uh, that like fearfulness of trying to force myself into believe something, just so that I don't go to hell, um, so that was like a, uh, a lifelong, probably, struggle. And so when I think I was talking with one of my best friends still I almost said the time, but we're still really close he went on a really impactful spiritual journey where, you know, we talked to him. His name is Scott Brazier, so we actually did an episode with him. But him and I had some really really hard conversations, maybe like four or five years ago, and I realized I didn't really know how to have those conversations other than being mad. So I think where it started was to know where people were coming from and why, without any sort of judgment, just to help understand what questions do I need to ask other people? That maybe I could turn it around and ask it on me. So that's that's how it started.
Speaker 2:Would it be fair to say that the my in finding my religion is is you?
Speaker 1:Um, I think initially, yeah, um, and the more that I talk with people, people are always interested in the like, they're interested in the topic, but there's been no space given for them in their lives to talk about it. Because I think typically what happens is you grow up in a specific church, you grow up in a specific church, you go to that church and it's just what you know. There's no room to like I'm going to try out this, this faith. You know and see what this does for me. So I think for a lot of my friends and people that I know that's how it happens. There wasn't a space to like talk about what else is out there or why I actually believe it, what else is out there or why I actually believe it.
Speaker 1:And, in addition, I think that a lot of my friends grew up in church and now aren't, but they left the church not because of anything that happened. It was just like they grew up and didn't want to go on Sundays anymore, and so there was never really this profound moment that they could think about. That was like oh yeah, this is what I believe. And so, for example, travis Webb, who we did an episode with, he had never really put any thought into it because it didn't really concern him, but he's interested in the topic. So I think the that's a long winded way of saying I think it started as my being me, but now it's turned into like everybody like find whatever you are interested in.
Speaker 2:Did you find any any comfort in having some conversations with people who kind of been on similar paths, maybe not so much being a pastor's kid, but in terms of the, the challenging or the, the doubts or the questioning, the, the?
Speaker 1:challenging or the, the doubts or the questioning. Um, I don't. I think it. Yeah, I think to a certain extent. Yes, it helped. Uh, open that up a little bit, but no one has had the same experience.
Speaker 1:Um, as as another person, not just me in particular. So I think it was more interesting to see the transition and how similar it was. No matter what the faith or religion was, the transition for a lot of people was I grew up in this thing, went to church. It wasn't for me anymore. Now I'm X, I don't believe whatever it is. But then there's the other side, where people get more involved in it.
Speaker 1:So Taryn Watkins, who was another one of our episodes, we went to high school together and she is a nun now and she's actually, I think, moving to the Vatican at some point, but she got more involved in it. So there's like this, this inverse line that happens, I think, for most people, where you either get more involved, you plateau, you know, you just stay the same as like you know you have kids, just like how you and mom did that we've talked about. You have kids and you have to go to church. Or it's the other way, where people go that downturn trajectory of just not either thinking about it or not really caring about it, or an all out rejection.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes sense. Is there anything you think again? Looking back on the three years I think you've been talking, you've had the project in place and the conversations you've had, and the conversations you've had Any huge surprises that have shifted your thinking one way or the other as you think back on the conversations?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think what I came to the conclusion a couple years ago is that everybody is thinking about this in some form or fashion, whether or not it's on the top of your mind.
Speaker 1:Every day might be different, but everybody is thinking about faith and like these existential type questions and nobody really has the answer to them.
Speaker 1:But some people have this faith that they found in whatever religion and it brings some comfort and I think what this allowed me to do, especially talking with with brett taylor um, who's a really, really smart dude. He had an episode that we did where we talked a lot about just like different galaxies and space and like what that means and how that fits in with with with what you believe, and I think for me, hearing so many different sides of religion, it allowed me to say finally, like I don't know, and I'm super comfortable with that, no, it's not like an all out rejection of it. I have a problem with organized religion, which we've talked about, but I think for the most part, religion is there to try to help people if taken in the right way, but we can bastardize that as humans. But for me, what I'm going to put myself into is not Christianity, not a specific religion. It's like it's okay to not know. It's okay to not know what's happening, and it was finally letting go of that fear of going to hell, because I didn't believe.
Speaker 2:So you think maybe one of the benefits not to put words in your mouth is over this journey you've given. It's okay to not know. It's okay to not know, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah to okay, yeah, and I think too, like when, when joe, my wife and I discussed this, you know she, she has said she's atheist, which you know, whatever great believe, whatever you want to believe, I find it hard to be an atheist because for as much faith as you put into believing something exists, you have to put just as much faith into something that doesn't exist. So I, I like I land somewhere in there Uh, you know, it's probably the what do they call agnostic, where, yeah, there could be something, but, um, I'm not going to devote, and you and I talked about this, I'm not going to devote my time here on earth to that. I want to have, like this could be the heaven, you know, like this we could make this just as good, versus living your entire life for something that could or could not be real. And you have to have faith in that, and I do not.
Speaker 2:Sure, and I think, going back to our last conversation too, I think one of the things not to shift it back on me again but you just brought up a point that I think one of the things that's given me so much freedom and where I'm at today with my spirituality and really resonating with Buddhist principles and practices not so much practices but principles is that I'm not in the job of convincing you. I'm right and you're wrong anymore. Yeah, you, I'm right and you're wrong anymore, which was a big part of my life, or at least my adult life, as a pastor, as a Christian, even Whatever you believe, I am totally okay with because that's your journey and I no longer have to be in the realm of. Well, I think you're wrong and here's why. What can I do to convince you? I don't need to convince anybody about anything anymore, because everybody has their own journey and that's very liberating.
Speaker 1:That's exactly right. You, you, you fall into that trap all the time where you're using data that's flawed already to prove a point to try to get to believe something. That's a really, really weird place to be. And you know, I have friends that are very, very committed to Christianity and they would talk about this in a different way. So this is not everybody, but I think that a lot of times we have these conversations of trying to have a logical conversation around I'm just going to use Christianity because that's what I know the most around Christianity when there is no logic involved in this.
Speaker 1:My buddy and I were talking the other day and you know he's a pastor in the family and sometimes they'll have conversations about, you know, faith and religion, and he was like we've had really good conversations and something that you know I've brought to him he's had to think about and he's done the same thing for me. And I asked and he was trying to preface this with the fact of like hey, we, maybe we could do this on like a podcast and I said, well, what would I, what would he say If I asked how do you prove God exists? Is it just faith? And he said yeah, and I said well then, the conversation is over, because the there's no, there's no logic base in that and I'm not looking for something to believe in.
Speaker 1:I'm looking more for answers about, like, why you believe it. If the answer is faith, and that's great, but, like, I'm not going to have a logical and data-driven conversation. Not that I'm the smart scientist or anything like that, but my point is that you can't prove it to me. Some things you can't even prove in science, which is, you know, equally as fascinating, but this is something like we're talking about people that devote their entire life to faith, which could be a beautiful thing, but for me, it's just not. It's not for me at all.
Speaker 2:Right, okay, what's your thought on religion versus spirituality, and has that come into the in play at all in the last three years? Did you start off thinking more finding my religion and end up and I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but you've ended up more as of finding my spirituality. Is there a difference and what is it?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I feel like I've always those things have always been in tandem with one another because they were kind of taught together within our church, you know, by you. You know the Father, son and Holy Ghost is the Holy Spirit. So like that, spirituality concepts, even though it's just a word, was kind of always there so I never really separated them. Kind of always there, so I never really separated them. And then the other thing that's funny is that you know, my, my buddy and I used to make fun of that uh aspect of it in college where we would say we would make fun of people and like I'm not, I'm not religious, but I'm really spiritual, like I see god in the trees, like we make fun of it a lot. Now it like I could. You know that can make sense, but at the time I was just like that sounds so dumb and like hippie. And so I think that there's things that I've learned about what spirituality means to different people. My sister-in-law, for example. I keep rattling off episodes just because I've learned a lot of stuff on it, but Jess McPheeters, who's my sister-in-law, talked about religion and nature and that's how she finds it. Some people could find that really corny, but you know a guy dying on the cross for your sins and is also his dad at the same time, and also a spirit like that sounds crazy too. So I think for me personally though I just don't see the spiritual nature of it Like there's always things that could come up that I might find interesting. You know, my wife and I talk about ghosts and she believes in ghosts.
Speaker 1:I think it's kind of farfetched, but I just listened to this podcast recently called the transparency tapes, and if you haven't listened to it, it's phenomenal where nonverbal people that use like type pads to communicate we didn't know if they were really in there, you know, because they weren't able to verbalize it and there's research and data that shows that like they actually have telepathy to a certain extent, where, like, they had a guy that was in California knew another nonverbal person from like Wyoming or something, and now their parents or friends, all because they met on this thing called the hill, which is this spiritual place where they can close their eyes and they can go and they can turn off their brain.
Speaker 1:That stuff keeps popping up to me, which makes me feel more interested in, like, what else could be out there and at the same time, it shuts off what I had been raised to believe, because there are other things that are out there that might contradict Like. I want to live in a place where contradictions are okay and I don't have to be scared about getting additional information, like where I am right now. I want to be okay to not be in that place 10 years from now. But when you're in an organized religion, that's it. That is what you know. You can continue to learn about it and learn more about it and get better at talking about it, but that's not changing. I want to live in a place where I can change that and I can learn new things, to open my mind and and figure out more about the universe in the world you don't want to be constrained by, by four walls.
Speaker 2:You need some fluidity there, there, there needs to be some ability to move outside those walls or not even have the walls at all. And I think for me that's the difference between, you know, spirituality and religion. Religion is, I think, by definition, there's a framework, there are, you know, there's, there's rights, there's a construct, there are, there are walls, by definition. Spirituality is, is more, I would say, more fluid, it's more, it's more personal, uh, more relational, relational with the world, uh, relation, you know, with others. So at least that's my kind of you know, divide and conquer the two of those, uh, yeah, interesting what that makes sense you know in terms of our conversations.
Speaker 2:I'm curious and I know you know the the campfire episode of people haven't heard that. That was your quote-unquote bonus episode. That was fun, yeah, uh, you know one of the questions he asked the family was what, what were you by? And I think you touched on something. But you know, I'm just going to throw it out there again what you know in those conversations what did you hear? Anything that really surprised you?
Speaker 1:the height of your addiction and how much it changed the family dynamic of having like a nuclear household Dad has a job, mom stays at home or maybe has a side hustle or whatever.
Speaker 1:That was gone and I lived that and I knew that. But knowing some of the inputs into that were really interesting I think. Just some of the specifics on what was happening while you were drinking and preaching and the one thing that sticks out is preaching from the pulpit, drunk, and that didn't surprise me, I don't think. But it was shocking to hear, I guess you say. But it was shocking to hear I guess you say and I know it's like it's difficult for you to talk about and think about, but it's fascinating that I lived, that you know, and that I was a part of that. Maybe you didn't see that instance, but that it brought just like a lot of thoughts about like what that time you know, going through high school and dealing with all that stuff was happening, happening. It was really, um, I guess it was just interesting just to know how well you're doing now and how bad it was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know in terms of, uh, you know, kind of talking through my spiritual journey and where I was, where I am today, what, um, I do? You see, I had I'm trying to think of how to put this where are you surprised at all by where I've ended up? At least where I am today? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean it's insane, dude, if you had told me, even five, ten years ago, that this is where you'd be and what your line of thinking would be, I would think you're nuts. I mean because, again, my childhood was very, very different from yours in that I was I can't think of a better word but indoctrinated into this type of of thinking, this way of thinking. This wasn't just a religion, this was, this was a way to um view the world, uh, that I didn't have a choice in. So now I'm in that structure, but the, the output of that is just. It's so fascinating that you, you go through this and then you end up where you are. I mean it's like you were a conservative Christian preacher that now doesn't believe in Christianity.
Speaker 1:That's, I mean, that is a, that's a headline. I mean it's insane to think about, but at the same time, it's really, really cool. And part of the reasons why I wanted to do this was to tell that, because it is so unique. And, going back to what we talked about at the beginning, of being able to change your mind, you know, if you can do it, going through schooling and getting a Master of Divinity, anybody can change their mind and that's okay. So I think it's really cool, but it is yeah, it's insane. It's insane to think about.
Speaker 2:Is it comforting to your journey?
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, I mean I think part of it is it makes it more comfortable for me to have thoughts around it versus having a family. Maybe that's still Because there's a lot of people that you hear about this all the time, especially on social media, where somebody comes out to their family and they just don't take it that well. It takes them a long time to come around because of religious interests, and then they do and then they work it out, but there's friction and things like that and our family. We don't have that because we might disagree on things, but the religious aspect there's no pressure to come back, there's no pressure to return to what we believed. And that might be different if my grandma was still around, because she was such a big part of the church and I probably Paige would go for all the time.
Speaker 1:I stopped going a long time ago but Paige would still go with her before even she passed away, so it could be different if she was still here. But I feel so liberated it's a strong word, but that that's a good way to think about it of like being able to have the space to do it, because again, there was there was a lot of fear growing up about. You have to believe this and if you don't like there's, there's going to be consequences and when you have your dad saying that on the pulpit like that's a, that's a big burden to have to have to deal with at times so a bit of a relief then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you talked about the fear coming into this project and the fear of you know my god, where am I? You know where am I going, uh, am I wrong. And if I'm wrong, shit, this is won't be good. Yep, yep, absolutely. And I you know where am I going. Am I wrong? And if I'm wrong, shit, this is won't be good.
Speaker 1:Yep, Yep, Absolutely. And I, you know, I just had this conversation with mom the other day and you know, like, as I mentioned, I think she's struggling with what you know trying to rectify growing up in a certain way in a certain church and having three generations, four generations, apart of this church and now being able to say like no, I actually don't believe that that's super scary, but yeah, I mean, it's just, it is liberating, I guess is the best way to put that.
Speaker 2:You know, and I use that word, I asked if you know, if you felt liberated, because I know, going back to our conversations, that's how I feel. You know, I feel like I am being true to myself. You know, last several years, before I really was able to vocalize this and come to terms with it, it was, I felt like I was, you know, living a lie. Maybe that's kind of a strong, strong way to look at it, but I wasn't living my true self, that's for sure. And then you know to be able to and I well, I hate to, I hate to go down this road, but you brought it up. You know somebody that comes out of the closet. You know who, who, you know they've been living life as straight and they really, you know they're, they're gay.
Speaker 2:I don't want to say my struggle was similar, but that's the only thing I can come up with that it's kind of a parallel where I, you know, I was not living my true self and I felt at fear to truly say how I believe, for fear of alienating people, even in my own family, or, you know, certainly coming across to former parishioners as a fraud, or, you know, causing harm to their faith journey. That was. There was a lot of fear behind it. Yeah, I eventually had to give myself permission to say this is okay, I, I'm allowed to be who I am and allowed to say you know what I believe and feel today. So I understand that. You know I use that word not lightly that aspect of I feel liberated.
Speaker 1:And I was just curious if you kind of had the same same thought. Do you think that you could have done that staying in ministry?
Speaker 2:We've talked a little bit about this, If I had, if I were currently in the ministry and finally said I don't believe this anymore.
Speaker 1:Or just having that space to have those conversations, whether it's about something that you believe in is right. That the church is telling you that's wrong.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I ever would have felt I had the space to have the conversation without coming across like a heretic.
Speaker 1:That comes back to doctrine versus spirituality.
Speaker 2:I guess Exactly. Yeah, Having somebody hit the emergency button, the heretic alert and I'm not trying to make light of it, but you start having conversations like that. I don't know if I really believe this. Well, you're not in the pulpit anymore because it's you know. Are you going to do damage? And fair enough, I mean, are you going to do damage? Are you going to be saying things from the pulpit that completely contradict what we believe? Scripture says If they have a fear of that, they're going to pull you, and I get that. So no, I don't think there would have been space to have had safe conversations around it.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, that's too bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you kind of touched on this already. You would say you identify yourself as an agnostic. How would you? How do you define that for people who maybe don't understand that term?
Speaker 1:that there could be something, but you don't know what it is. I guess you know. To sum it up, but for me it's, it's super. Like I think everybody should be agnostic because we don't, we have no idea, you know, but religion tells you that you have to have faith. You know what, regardless of the religion, you have to have faith in that, which, again, like I, I tell people that are really into Christianity that like I think that's really cool, like I've never had that in my entire life. I never had that. I don't know what that feels like, so that's really cool that they have that.
Speaker 1:However, I don't, I don't really have any interest in just believing something. Um, so, agnostic feels right, because I can reject maybe some of the organized religion, but not fully. I can say, yeah, you could be right, there's a possibility that that happens, but I can't say with 100% certainty that there isn't some higher being, regardless of what that looks like. I think that we at least me personally, you can get pigeonholed into what that could be. So a lot of times it's either you believe in God or you don't. What is God? What does that mean? There's so many different possibilities. I guess that you could go through where I can't just say I'm an atheist, I do not believe in a god, because I think a lot of times atheism is a full-out rejection of where someone has come from, or maybe what they have observed, um, which is totally fine and totally understandable. However, where I'm at like I.
Speaker 1:And it's again like I want to be clear. This is not that I'm not atheist because I'm afraid that something could be right and I don't want to be wrong. It's more of I want the possibility to still be there. I want the possibility that there are aliens, and if the Bible tells me that there can't be aliens, then that's not for me. Um, the the past, like what happens when you go in a black hole, like they say that space and time just ceases to exist. What the hell does that mean? How is that even possible? Uh, if, what if God is behind that, what if that is God? Like there's just so many different things that could happen that are in the, the universe that it just doesn't make any sense to me to flat out reject. No, there's a hundred percent. No, god, cause I I'm not smart enough to say that and I don't have the data behind that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I subscribe totally what you just said. I mean, I'm not smart enough. There are more questions than there are answers. I feel like anytime we have an answer to something, we've created two more questions and I don't know that we're ever going to have the answers that we as humans want. So as we start pigeonholing things and I keep using that term or putting, you know, putting ourselves in a box, it just doesn't fit. You know we can't fit into that box and that I am kind of in the same realm as you are, that, uh, I don't have all the answers, I never will have the all the answers. I know there's just a shell of more that I don't understand out there, and I just got to believe something's behind it.
Speaker 2:All you know power. You know to borrow the 12 step term of higher power. There's something bigger than me behind all of this, and I don't know what that is. If you want to put the label of God on it and some people will use God, that's fine. If it's higher power, is it the? You know the, the power of the universe? I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, power is it the you know, the power of the universe? I don't know, yeah, but I but I'm not, I'm not so uh comfortable with the world where I say, oh no, there's, there's nothing. I think there's there's something I can't identify, nor can I, nor do I even want to try to identify what that is. Yeah, but that's identify it.
Speaker 1:Let me. I think we differ on that. I would love to know what it is. I would love the answer. That'd be great.
Speaker 2:That's the higher that's God right there and God's mad. So we have to sacrifice a virgin in the volcano. I mean, that's a very simplistic way to look at it, but we've always been striving, as humans, to try to answer those questions, and when we couldn't answer them, we then we came up with an answer it's the volcano. The volcano is mad at us. The gods are mad at us.
Speaker 1:Well, thank God the Mayans aren't around anymore, because you get get a lot of hate online from the mayan community.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I know, I know, I know I'll let you, I'll let you take those emails I don't deal with it. How do you? You know you're going to be a father soon. How is all of this you know, the journey, the uh, the journey through the podcast, our conversations, kind of what you have learned from others how do you think this will impact in terms of how you will deal with spiritual questions with your son or daughter?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's huge. I remember when my wife and I first started dating, we were talking in, you know, in theory, like if we ever got married, like what, what about this? What would happen with this? What do you think about this? And one of the things that came up was church, and I remember so this had to have been, I don't know, 2000, 2011, 2012, somewhere there.
Speaker 1:We got into like a disagreement because I said, well, I definitely want my kid to go to church, like I might not believe in it fully and I might not go, but I think they should have those morals. And she's like, wait, you wouldn't go. And I was like, well, no. And she said, well, that doesn't make any sense. And I was like, well, I don't believe that that anymore, but I feel like it's a good structure of what you should believe. And like, obviously, we would do baptism, right. And she's like I don't want my kid baptized. And so all of these things started to come around and you know, you table it and you think about it later. And then it wasn't until you know, probably 10 years later, that we started having these conversations again. She's like do you still want your kid to go to church? I was like hell, no, like there's no way. Like, if they want to, great, but like I'm not gonna, I'm not, that's not going to be part of the growing up experience is we're going to carve out time on sunday to go to church and it's going to be really weird for me, because that that was my entire childhood revolved around sund, Sunday and going to church. The amount of football games I missed man was not inconsequential. So I don't want to do that to my son or daughter. But really, I mean, I think it's been cool to do this because, you know, maybe some parents never even have this discussion and they assume, um, I feel like I've been having this discussion for the last 10 years, so that, um, definitely I'm not going to do it, perfect, but the the way that I want to do it is like this is what's available to you. Um, you, yeah, if you're.
Speaker 1:If your friend invites you to go to church, go to church, go see what you learned. Tell me what you learn. What do you think about that? Your Jewish friend says, hey, you want to come to synagogue. Like, yeah, go do that. You have a devil-worshiping friend. Like, go down to the forest and trees and see what the star is all about. But, like I want to give space to learn more things and see what actually is available to them. Things and see what actually is is available to them. But like when they're little, um, answering those tough questions with, like I actually don't know, like let's, let's look that up. Um, I think that's kind of how I want to do it. Um, will that happen in practice? We shall see.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I and I and I love that. I thought I love that you want to get the space and I really I think back to as I served as a pastor, the number of children that were dropped at the doorstep of the church by the parents who never darkened the doorstep of the church. You indoctrinate I shouldn't use that word. You teach my child, you know and you know you want no part of it. You're not going to drop off your son or daughter to have somebody else teach them and answer their spiritual questions. You want to be on their journey with them and I think that that's no matter what road somebody's taken. I think that we went going back to the confirmation classes when I was in and I know I made the parents come. You know this is not some. This is not a drop-off service. You know you need to be involved as well.
Speaker 1:So cool, yeah, and I think I think this. You know it's funny that you asked that, because I think about this a lot and we have a nephew who's out in California that he was really excited to go to Sunday school one time with his friend and he's like two, he's like two or three, but he was pumped and their parents are not religious at all, um, and they let him go and I think that's awesome, I think that's a good uh step and, like I, I think I have to be careful of bringing in my own bias of like, well, I don't, I don't want them to go down that road. It's once they get to a certain age, it's their life. But being able to introduce them in a way that they understand the context of it, I think, is the most important thing. Good point, I like that. I think it's the most important thing.
Speaker 2:Good point, I like that. Well, miles, how did I do? This is my first foray into interviewing on a podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you did really well. You know you asked questions Maybe. Yeah, you asked questions and I answered them, which is pretty much the job description, so I think you nailed it All right. Well, I'll add that to my resume, perfect. Well, this will probably be our last one, unless we think about any other content, so thank you again for doing this. This is a tough thing to be vulnerable and opening yourself up for, and I've got a lot of really positive responses and comments. Some people on TikTok are a little bit angry because of their, of their beliefs, and that's fine.
Speaker 2:On TikTok I've never heard of TikTok, wow, yeah, yeah. Well, like I've said, this has been good for selfishly. It's been good for me just to, to think through and to be able to articulate the journey. I know what, I know where point a was and I know what point Z is is. It's hard to to talk through the other parts of it, but this has been helpful for me and I you know anybody out in any of your listeners. It gives them permission to kind of challenge your thinking a little bit, and you know they've been wrestling with something but haven't felt comfortable even asking or questioning what they believe. Uh, then, great, that's, that's, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Um, and I'm I'm sure that you'd be open to conversations faith, faith or recovery driven, if people want to reach out.
Speaker 2:Oh, you bet yeah.
Speaker 1:Be happy to Awesome. Well, thanks again, Dad. This was fun. We'll see you on a golf course on Saturday.
Speaker 2:I've got a couple dozen balls. I'm ready to go. All right, all right, take care.
Speaker 1:That's a wrap for Season 3. I want to say thank you to my dad for opening up, being vulnerable and answering tough questions. I also want to thank you, the listener, for listening, participating, watching the random TikTok videos, for downloading this every week. I really, really appreciate you. I don't have a plan for season four right now, so if you have any ideas or maybe you want to get involved in this project or just have questions for me, feel free to send me over an email.
Speaker 1:Miles at finding my religion podcom as a reminder. It really helps out the show and helps other people find the show If you subscribe, rate and review wherever you're listening. We're all over social media, so make sure to check out some of the videos that I'm posting on a weekly basis. They're on TikTok, instagram, facebook Just search for Finding my Religion Podcast or go to findingmyreligionpodcom. You can also send me over any suggestions that you have for the show. Maybe you have a question that you want answered or you want to be a guest. Shoot me over an email at miles with a Y at findingmyreligionpodcom.
