S4 E30 - Just Victim or Also Villain: The Epstein Survivor Question

This podcast episode critically examines the Jeffrey Epstein case, focusing on the complexities surrounding legality, morality, and the claims of victims. It argues that many women involved with Epstein were not lured but engaged willingly for promised rewards. The episode questions why Epstein’s story remains significant in the media despite his prosecution and death. It contrasts media portrayals of Epstein’s victims with the exploitation faced by inner-city boys, highlighting discrepancies in legal and societal responses. Additionally, it critiques how the media and societal narratives selectively consider victims' stories and criminalize behavior based on age and location-specific consent laws.

Commentary on trending issues brought to you with a moderate perspective.

Transcript

The Tenth Man: 0:00

Jeffrey Epstein was a predator. women, were not lured. They were told they would receive things from Jeffrey Epstein and they did receive those things. the same thing was promised to black kids in the city. Young black boys who are bag men for the numbers, Having sex with a minor is not illegal. It's immoral, but it's not illegal. Why are we hearing about Jeffrey Epstein now? He was prosecuted twice. He died in jail. America didn't just condemn Epstein America, glorified the people around him, they didn't have to marry him, and he didn't get them pregnant. The real heroes are honest girls who refuse to trade sex for favors Old men paying 14 year olds for massages. Sick. Because it's un-Christian. why are we hearing about Jeffrey Epstein now? He was prosecuted twice. He died in jail. The segment of our society that doesn't believe in capital punishment is somehow still not satisfied that Epstein has paid the ultimate price. why are we hearing about him at all? Is it because he had sex with a minor or minors? Having sex with a minor is not illegal. It's immoral, but it's not illegal. It's only having sex with minors under a certain age is illegal sometimes, and in some places, but not objectively so. As a Christian, I believe what he did was wrong. Christians also believe it's a sin to gamble. They believe that abortion is a sin stances on divorce, homosexuality, tattoos, drugs, alcoholism. I find most of those things sinful, but the world doesn't find hardly any sexual behavior to be immoral. So why this? We say it's because he had sex with people who were underage. And when we say. Underage. What you have to understand is that in most US states, and I emphasize us because it's not true elsewhere, it's more lenient, lax elsewhere, but most US states have ages of consent, and some of those ages are relatively high. And that includes Florida where he lived. But let's look at three of his main victims, Anouska Di Giorgio, Lisa Phillips and Liz Stein. These women were not underage and they're some of the best known representatives. And as the last one, Liz Stein said this.

Liz Stein: 2:57

Not all of the survivors of Epstein and Maxwell were underage. Some of us were very, very young women. I think that that's something that, um, is not out in the public as much as the underage women.

3:09

There's much speculation as to why the Epstein files are being hidden, or actually they're not being hidden. Hidden is a passive act there's much speculation as to why the files not be revealed. And I would like to suggest, sarcastically is because all of these women were helplessly, lured and enticed. So the main reason we're not releasing the files is because men like to lure and entice women.

The Tenth Man: 3:39

If men found out the secret words Epstein used that

3:42

magically

The Tenth Man: 3:42

caused these women to lay down

3:45

and to receive him, then

The Tenth Man: 3:47

imagine all the orgies that might ensue. You know, a fishing lure has bright colors, it's shiny, it has exotic movements and sounds that attract a fish. And it's a lure because it seems to be food, but it's not food at all. It promises something good, but what lays in store for the fish that strikes it is something bad. That's what makes it a lure. But these women, they were not lured. They were told they would receive things from Jeffrey Epstein and in exchange for sex and companionship, although the companionship significantly went in both directions, and they did receive those things. So why do we say that they were lured or enticed? They received exactly what they were promised and they were not misled. The key accusation in this scandal is that there was supposedly, a veritable parade of girls through the Florida Mansion who were underage for the state of Florida, but there's never a clear cut case of a girl from out of nowhere being snatched and taken in. There are girls like Annie Farmer.

Annie Farmer: 5:13

My name is Annie Farmer and I was 16 years old when I was blown to New Mexico to spend a weekend with Epstein and Maxwell.

5:21

Flown to New Mexico. Was this a commercial flight? Well, no. So were you kidnapped And since all this is playing on the technicality or the legality that she was underage, she was not underage for New Mexico. She might be underage in all our minds, but in the eyes of the law, she was not illegal for New Mexico. Just saying. Haley Robinson, or Robinson, she's another one who says, a friend told her and there's always a friend. Another girl told her that she could get$200 for giving an old guy a massage. I like how they keep saying an old guy. We said it ourselves in the introduction, but this whole old guy thing, have you seen his pictures? He was in his late forties, early fifties, a. Good looking guy. He wasn't some cadavers old wreck. So anyway, Haley Robson, her friend, recruited her when she was 16 and she carried on with him for two years until she was 18. And her complaint is that when she was arrested for procuring as an adult, other girls, that the police treated her like a criminal well. We're going by the law. She was a criminal, and moreover, her mother knew about this. Did she know about what she was doing at age 16? I don't know. She should have, but her mother did know in the end, and she tells us that her psychiatrist tells her to let go of the guilt for the things that weren't her fault, not her fault. Another girl is Marina Lacerda. Now she's kind of part of their royalty because she has the title of minor victim number one, and she was only 14 when she took up with, uh, Mr. Epstein. Again, she was brought to him by a girlfriend to be. Sexually assaulted, we're gonna start saying sexually assaulted, because that's just the word that they use every time they had relations they refer to as being assaulted. So this girl went to him three times a week to be sexually assaulted, and she brought her friends. She says today that she's angry because she dropped outta school for this job, which paid her very well, but she's angry because it did not lead to a lasting job with him. She wanted to be one of his assistants. Another Ghislaine Maxwell, She didn't get that job, she says because she was too old. He rejected any girls older than 17, except that he didn't. He didn't. She was an at will employee and she was let go. Now Lecerda is Brazilian. She's a Brazilian immigrant, and she says that, everything was wonderful back in Brazil, but because of, because Epstein refused to keep her on, she was therefore denied the American dream. And ironically in her favored Brazil, she was not underage. At age 14 she would be allowed to, no. Is that neither here nor there? It might not be here, but it is there. And Erta like the girls, she had already been having sexual assault with her mother's partner before Epstein. She called it abuse. Let's call it abuse, but whatever it was, it happened way before Epstein. It's hard not to convey an opinion in these matters. I'm doing my best just to convey the facts to you. Let's go to Virginia Roberts. She's another one of the, star witnesses, or was unfortunately she took her own life last spring, she has a memoir coming out in the fall and it's, been subject to some controversy, which her, family has been opposing. Parts of it which have been changed, her family. Ironic. Because Roberts went to work for Epstein, also because of abuse at home, she became a regular part of his entourage. One reason for her fame is that she is the victim of sexual assault. She was assaulted by Prince Andrew who had sex with her when she was age 17. However, she was part of the entourage. She was having sexual assault with lots of people. And as far as the legality, again, with the underage kids, it seems like they're always a"Yeah, but what about because she had sex with Prince Andrew, allegedly in London and. She was old enough to have sex in London. and the story of her home life was like most of these. She had a horrible home life being abused by family or people around her. And like many women in this situation, she became desolate and took her own life last spring. A victim of Epstein who exploit her then, or of the media exploiting her. Now you decide, but these girls parading proudly and supposedly bravely with therapists telling them to let go of their guilt because they did nothing wrong. I think one reason for the angst and the suicides, just an observation and an opinion, is that they'd be better off accepting their guilt and forgiving themselves And her memoirs coming out in the fall, as we said, but now her family, family members are appearing on the Capitol steps with all the other survivors. And who are these family members? Hopefully they're not some of the ones the cause of the abuse, but where were they when they, when she really needed them? And of course we don't know the answer to that and we don't wanna speculate or cast aspersions on them, but. It is a darn good question. So how were these young women seduced, lured, enticed, deceived. Anushka did Georgio. She's now a successful actress. It seems like things worked out well for. That may not excuse bad behavior, but it might just explain that she made a deal with the devil and the devil kept his side of the deal. Now, she didn't give her age, but she met Epstein in London. So just based on that, she's two years more likely to have been old enough to consent than the girls in Florida. In fact, she said she was with epstein for a long time. She said she visited Epstein homes and Islands a lot, flew all over the world over many years and then says by the time I was raped it was too late. So it's always assault and rape. And the assault spanned several years and locales. And I'm not trying to be sarcastic or mean, but sarcasm is merited when they keep being called brave because she says that she did it because everybody acted like it was normal. Those were her words. There's Lisa Phillips. Now we mentioned her before also, an adult. She was working at him as a model and was introduced by another friend at age 21. They were working in, the Virgin Islands, and the friend said, Hey, let's go over to Jeffrey Epstein's Island. It'll be fun. So late that night after dinner and after they'd had the exciting introduction to Prince Andrew, her friend woke her up and said, we need to go give Jeffrey his massage. Now, this is Lisa Phillips version of the story. It might not be as complimentary to Lisa if we heard another side of it, even the friend's side. But even Lisa Phillips's side is not that flattering to her. So her friend tells her, we need to go give Jeffrey his massage. Well, what massage? I don't wanna give him a massage. And the friend says, well, we kind of have to. So again, there's a woman accomplice. So they gave Jeffrey his massage, and while they were there, the two of them, as Philip says, he assaulted them. So Jeffrey Epstein assaulted two grown women at once. The friend was fine with it. So was the friend on the payroll then? You have to wonder, and wonder is all we're doing here. So they were assaulted and then after that, Epstein called her. She says she ignored him. One might say that she gave him the cold shoulder or played hard to get. Until he got her a modeling job with a top agency. After that, this is Lisa Phillips's story. After that, she visited him and his friends in the music industry, in the film industry, and whenever she saw him, he assaulted her and all their friends, all of his friends also assaulted her. She says she discovered that she had been assaulted after Epstein was arrested. If you don't know the story in 2019. So now that she knows that she has been assaulted and is that she's now a victim and a survivor, her words, she now has a podcast about her experiences. her discovery of her victimhood late in the game is not unique. Because we also have Liz Stein who took up with Epstein at age 21, and she had this to say,

Liz Stein: 15:59

You did not realize. That you were trafficked until Jeffrey Epstein was arrested. What was it that made you realize that you two had survived his trafficking? When the reports started coming out, I was kind of in my, my mind saying, but I wasn't trafficked. I was their friend. And the more that I learned about what trafficking looks like, the more I was able to say, that's exactly what happened to me.

The Tenth Man: 16:23

So two of the most outspoken and vocal survivors. I did not know that they were abused until after Epstein went on trial in 2019. Now she makes a living as, some kind of survivor's advocate or counselor. Now,

16:42

do you,

The Tenth Man: 16:43

believe These stories? We're supposed to believe the woman I believe them. Not sure I believe they're telling everything that happened, but I believe they're telling what happened. And yet all these women said they had no choice because if they came out, whatever that means, no one would believe them. I wonder what they based that on. Everybody believes them. I believe them. The thing is, the stories they're telling are not vindicating. They're not validating. And here's an uncomfortable truth, that being a victim does not somehow make you honest. The women could be exploited and still lie. So even if, if Epstein's girls were victim, that doesn't make every word, they utter gospel far from it, and yet that's exactly how the media treats it. They have not ever really been questioned and without even questioning, their stories still stink. And yet we're told believe all women, no matter the evidence, and be careful ever dating any of these women. There was a woman named Brenda Tracy. She was a professional abuse counselor who sued the men on a football team, a college football team, and lost. But now she set herself up as a professional abuse counselor. She lost, and yet she's a professional abuse counselor. Started dating Michigan State football coach Mel Tucker. I ended up suing the school for sexual abuse because he allegedly abused her. She's an abuse counselor, and yet she allows her boyfriend to abuse her. You have to wonder what would qualify these people to counsel others. These others, these, these other two. Lisa and Liz, a tragic chapter in their life. If anything, they probably would relapse into the same patterns like Tracy, the counselor becoming the plaintiff. One tragedy turns into a permanent line on the resume and a line of expertise without any credentials. it is sad the low standards we hold women to now. We used to consider mothers who raised a family to be heroes. Then it became single mothers. Now we've lowered the standards so far that it's sex workers not only are the heroes, we even allow them to become experts and life coaches. It is okay to feel bad for these women. Their lives haven't been great, but like you'd feel bad for a homeless person, for a heroin addict. They're in rough shape, but it didn't all just happen to them. And as far as the human trafficking, that's what Epstein's being accused of and being tried for. Trafficking that comes from the MAN act. Federal law making it illegal to transport someone over state lines for immoral purposes. The thing is, we only use that law when we feel like it. There's a lot better examples of when the man act is being violated. There's another good example, a very similar one, Brittany Griner. She was arrested in Russia for bringing in THC cartridges. Our press treated her like she was a hostage of Putin and maybe she was. Carrying marijuana or cannabis oil is not the worst thing in the world, maybe, but carrying pot across borders, state lines, violates our own federal law. and what about the thousands of kids transported into actual human trafficking? The girls we're talking about they were already doing the deed, the assault. The fact that they were transported was kind of incidental. One was associated with the other. But actual human traffickers taking thousands of kids, they're only moving these kids one direction and for one purpose to become sex workers. They aren't companions. Because Epstein's women, they were not quite prostitutes. They were not quite girlfriends, but they were clearly something in between. Something way different from transporting thousands upon thousands of kids across the border heading towards cities never to return, just so that they can perform sex work. On strangers a bit different, wouldn't you say? And minor number one, marina Lacerda. She was doing assault three times a week at$300 a crack. As a 14-year-old. I'd like to talk to some real human trafficking victims and see how they're doing financially. I don't envy this lifestyle. But on the scale of prostitute, on the scale of sex workers, ERDA was doing pretty well. We should be asking her to pay the back income taxes on that money. And what about the double standard? The women were paid and paid well for sex. Why weren't they paying Epstein? They were getting sex. So how were they disadvantaged? And what about all the modern progressive standards of morality? Let's compare those to what was happening. These women were whined and dined. Betted and rewarded These victims. Survivors were flown to Africa. They got cash, comforts, prestige, attention, jobs, there's all kinds of influencers on tiktoks saying, just have fun and don't get married. Don't make a man's lunch for him. Don't do his laundry. All of these women, they didn't have to marry him, and he didn't get them pregnant. He didn't abandon them. He didn't leave them with any STDs. So what's really going on here? Why is everybody so mad at Epstein? There's the whole underage thing, but that seems a little bit flexible. Is it just that everybody's jealous of him? The left finds ways to justify all kinds of abberant behavior. But a long-term, mutually beneficial and biologically natural relationship seems an odd one for them to attack. Now, they say they're protecting young women. Well, if you wanna protect the young, why not protect young men? Because there are some victims of a far worse crisis. And I'm not approving Epstein or his behavior. It's just the complimentary problem with young men is far worse. We have a strange definition of victims and survivors, this secret enticement, because actually there's nothing new here. There's no secret words. Just promise them money, affection, attention. Which he gave to them and now they're treated like heroes. When the real heroes are honest girls who refuse to trade sex for favors where are those girls? The real heroes And as to the real victims, they got the same thing these white girls got. The same thing was promised to black kids in the city. Young black boys who are bag men for the numbers, runners for the drug dealers, same thing. You promise them money, a family, a pseudo family, and attention. And you promise to them for the same reasons because they're young and innocent. They have the same vulnerability. But imagine them indicting their gang leaders for exploiting them. Can you even imagine a bunch of convicts lining up in the capitol steps, demanding justice? All those girls demanding justice, that would mean they're in jail too for breaking the law, but Glanine Maxwell. He is the only woman in the gang of sex criminals who's being prosecuted. And there was only one man in the gang. The rest are all women. The man in charge is dead, and the woman that all the other women envied is in prison. The black boys and the white girls have similar stories, but yeah, I know all the girls weren't white, but they were acting white. Similar stories, but the boys had to work. They didn't get to fly around the world on Epstein's arm as eye candy, and there aren't just a few hundred of them, but the biggest difference. Is the world that they're being sucked into involves true criminal acts, things that are objectively wrong. We all might hate sex with underage girls, but it's not objectively evil. In the same way that drugs theft and murder arm things that are evil all the time. But there's no advocacy for inner city boys who make bad choices, and yet I don't see them blaming others for their bad decisions And the one thing they all have in common, the men and the women. They were being exploited by their mentors back then, and they're exploited by the media now. No one is truly on their side, and no one will just tell them the truth. So what's the motive behind all this? Publicity can't be justice. It's not reform. Epstein might be useful to protect living elites by focusing only on him or useful to media companies for ratings and book sales. He's certainly useful for cultural narratives that need symbols more than they need facts. Was Epstein, objectively evil? I guess so. But he's dead. He died in prison. So it looks like it's all just a media show. And it'll probably peter out until the next time. Anyone can create a new story of victimhood. Examine some obscure laws for loopholes in reverse, weaponize them selectively, and the media can exploit Christian morality, cafeteria style, picking, and choosing instead of reporting facts. This is the 10th Man podcast. Thanks for joining.