Thriving in Retirement: How to Redefine Purpose and Design Your Next Chapter

Thriving in Retirement: How to Redefine Purpose and Design Your Next Chapter

In this episode of 'Getting Your Edge: How to Downsize Your Life,' we explore the key aspects of transitioning into retirement and how to embrace a fulfilling new chapter. Our guest, Elizabeth Zelinka Parsons, a trailblazer in the retirement transition space, shares her journey from a high-powered legal career to becoming an expert in helping others navigate pivotal life transitions. Elizabeth is the author of 'Encore, a High Achiever's Guide to Thriving In Retirement,' and a seasoned consultant dedicated to providing strategies for redefining purpose and creating a meaningful post-retirement life. Tune in as we discuss identity bridging, reconstructing daily routines, and building rich relationships and purposes to thrive in retirement. Don't miss this enlightening conversation packed with actionable insights and inspiration for anyone nearing the next big life transition.

00:00 Introduction to Downsizing Your Life
00:23 Meet Elizabeth Zelinka Parsons
01:14 Elizabeth's Career Journey
02:21 The Decision to Leave Law
03:27 Reinventing Life in Tucson
03:45 Identity Crisis and Self-Discovery
04:54 Writing the Book and Helping Others
08:13 Advice for Pre-Retirement Planning
22:49 Mindsets for a Fulfilling Retirement
25:52 Embracing Discomfort in New Beginnings
27:18 The Cost of Failure and Setting Examples
28:08 Retirement at Different Ages
29:54 Investing in Relationships
31:17 Forced Retirement and Coping Strategies
34:01 Consulting Services and Programs
35:54 Cultural and Gender Differences in Retirement
37:10 Planning for Early Retirement
39:47 Rebuilding Connections and Purpose
42:39 Advice for Contemplating Retirement
45:59 Final Thoughts and Contact Information

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Transcript

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Ep.65   Thriving in Retirement: How to Redefine Purpose and Design Your Next Chapter

[00:00:00] 

[00:00:05] Dennis Day: welcome to Getting Your Edge, how to Downsize your Life, the podcast that helps you with financial, practical, and emotional sides of moving to the next chapter of your life. Let's dive in with our episode guest Elizabeth Zelinka Parsons.

[00:00:25] Dennis Day: She's a trailblazer in retirement transition space and an author of the book, Encore, a High Achiever's Guide to Thriving In Retirement. She's a seasoned lawyer and a consultant with Ska Parsons and the co-founder of Incor Co. She advises professionals on navigating life's pivotal transitions.

[00:00:49] Dennis Day: Elizabeth's expertise is deeply rooted in her personal journey from a high powered legal career to redefining her purpose, excuse me, and fulfillment in a new [00:01:00] chapter. Welcome, Elizabeth Lanka Parsons. 

[00:01:04] Judy Gratton: Thank you it's a pleasure to be here. 

[00:01:07] Dennis Day: Let's start off with a little background.

[00:01:08] Dennis Day: Elizabeth, tell us about yourself, your career in law and writing a book and becoming a retirement transition expert. 

[00:01:17] Elizabeth Parsons: Sure. Be happy to share that. I. Have always been one of those high achiever types. When I think back to the very beginning, I was the little kid that was always wanting to get straight A's.

[00:01:29] Elizabeth Parsons: I was very acclimated to this idea of climbing whatever ladder you stuck in front of me. Didn't always ask if I wanted to even be on the ladder. I just climbed. After college, I was working full time. I went to law school at night at Georgetown.

[00:01:43] Elizabeth Parsons: I, ended up landing a job at a very prestigious Wall Street law firm. And all of that felt and was, an exciting accomplishment, and it took an incredible amount of work. I was so used to that redlining. [00:02:00] And working hard that I slotted straight into law firm life in Washington, DC and, was before I knew it, working 80 hours a week, nonstop without questioning any of it.

[00:02:13] Elizabeth Parsons: After about 10 years of that, I was at a stage of life where I started a family one day I realized I've got two small kids and I am. Paying a lot of other people to live my life for me so I could go to work and make money so I can pay a lot of other people to live my life for me.

[00:02:29] Elizabeth Parsons: I made the, difficult decision to leave my career, leave DC and reinvent myself, so that I could be a more present parent. I make no judgment, about anybody else who's decided to blend those two challenges together because I admire it. I just could not.

[00:02:47] Elizabeth Parsons: Find the right balance. The funny thing about that decision is that, everyone thought I'd lost my mind. What are you doing? The explanation I gave was, oh no, it's fine. I'm just front ending my [00:03:00] retirement. I'm just gonna take, five or 10 years from that chapter.

[00:03:04] Elizabeth Parsons: I'm gonna call retirement and live it now, and then I'll make more money later. I need the time now. I've got enough money to get me by and find my feet and I'll be fine. Off I go to Tucson and once the euphoria of the move wore off. I suddenly realized that I had completely lost my identity.

[00:03:25] Elizabeth Parsons: I had completely lost my sense of how to live life. My life structure made no sense to me. I was a terrible relaxer. I could not, introduce myself without making reference to what I used to do for a living because I had no idea who I actually was without that career as a defining point.

[00:03:46] Elizabeth Parsons: I really was not prepared for the lack of, mental stimulation. I loved being a mom, but that was just using a very small part of who I was. There were many blind spots associated with that decision and it was [00:04:00] a difficult thing for me to work my way through. It was several years, soul searching reading learning and trying to understand these things about identity and what makes a well lived life and what is it to thrive, and all of those things that I'd never stopped to ask myself. Before I could start recomposing life with some intention and thought to what a designed life would look like.

[00:04:22] Elizabeth Parsons: Eventually I did do that. And as you can see, I managed to, reshape a professional life around that work. Been doing it 15 years, worked with hundreds of people who, later in life typically, found themselves at that same inflection point, struggling to find their feet.

[00:04:40] Elizabeth Parsons: Ultimately, I wrote the book because as I would mention what I did professionally to people, they would invariably say I know 10 people who need to talk to you. It struck me, my goodness, this is a veritable epidemic, out there. I thought, I've learned a lot, and I think I could really help give people a framework for why it's hard.[00:05:00] 

[00:05:00] Elizabeth Parsons: And what some of the tactics and strategies are you can use to navigate it and create something spectacular next. So that's a little bit of a long answer, but hopefully enough to give you the high points. 

[00:05:15] Judy Gratton: I find that fascinating and oddly enough, almost identical to my daughters.

[00:05:21] Judy Gratton: She went to William and Mary Law School. She worked in DC for a while and then went as an A USA and retired about a year ago. Because she has three children. And so now she's trying to. Decide what she's gonna do with the rest of her life. Can you give us a personal story or an experience from your career that shaped your views on this?

[00:05:44] Judy Gratton: When you walked out the door on transitions did you just walk out the door and then suddenly go, now what do I do? 

[00:05:52] Elizabeth Parsons: It's a really good question. I did it thoughtfully. I did think about this for a year at least, and [00:06:00] it was very bittersweet because I did love what I did professionally, but it was just impossible for me to show up correctly in both places.

[00:06:09] Elizabeth Parsons: I couldn't see how to fit at all. I gave the firm, four months. It was very important to me that I tie that up correctly and put things to bed correctly, I had no intention of ever practicing law again. There's this wonderful bit of psychology I stumbled across called the End of History illusion, where you imagine that what you want now.

[00:06:30] Elizabeth Parsons: Is what you're gonna want forever, so like that you've reached the most mature version of what you will ever want, right this minute. That's what we continue to think of our lives. One of the blind spots I had was that my life would forever be. Defined by those current circumstances.

[00:06:48] Elizabeth Parsons: That makes no sense when you analyze it. 15 years later my kids are like, could you find something else to do besides be our mother please? So I ultimately did recharge my career. I, I do legal works to this [00:07:00] day. I very different practice in Tucson.

[00:07:01] Elizabeth Parsons: It's wonderful alongside this other professional life. What a rich mosaic of opportunities I could create for myself going forward, I'd been on such a one track lifestyle. School, law school, legal career, you have this misunderstanding that everything, the rest of your life is gonna be monolithic instead of.

[00:07:26] Elizabeth Parsons: A lovely array of different complimentary things. That was a discovery I made. And it's been probably the richest discovery of all, I had no idea that I should even imagine it, if that makes sense.

[00:07:43] Judy Gratton: Wow, that's just wonderful. 

[00:07:44] Dennis Day: Prior to retirement, what steps should someone, getting ready to prepare themselves for their next journey, what are you suggesting they do? 

[00:07:54] Elizabeth Parsons: I would say there were two big picture aspects [00:08:00] to it,

[00:08:00] Elizabeth Parsons: I think to some degree we all become very identified with what we are doing professionally, we put a lot of our time energy and skills into that. And then we as humans like to belong to things and so we end up feeling part of the career profession employer or firm, whatever it may be.

[00:08:21] Elizabeth Parsons: And so there is an identity bridging that has to happen. I mention that to people and everyone nods, yes, I see what you mean. I think I do identify in some way with what I've been doing. So that's a big picture project and I'll get into the details of how you could think about it.

[00:08:38] Elizabeth Parsons: The second, is restructuring, for most of us, the career during those years. Defines how we live. It is, the big thing around which the rest of our life has to work. We fit in our social lives, we fit in our family time, we fit in if we're lucky, hobbies. But work is that non-negotiable [00:09:00] part

[00:09:00] Elizabeth Parsons: when you just pluck that out of the middle of the scaffolding, everything goes, there's no organized results. So I always say to people, you wanna think about your life structure before you hold the career right out of the middle of it. Wake up on Monday morning when you no longer work and go, now what?

[00:09:18] Elizabeth Parsons: That's not a great place from which to design an empowered life, with the identity bridging. I always remind people that we as humans are very motivated by creating communion feeling a sense of cohesion having routines and a sense of, agency. Work gives us all three of those things, and you've gotta recognize that.

[00:09:45] Elizabeth Parsons: You need those in your life in the new chapter. 

[00:09:48] Judy Gratton: Can you go over that idea of identity, what did you call it? Identity 

[00:09:53] Elizabeth Parsons: bridging. 

[00:09:54] Judy Gratton: Yeah, bridging. I love that term. 

[00:09:57] Elizabeth Parsons: Yeah. Because it is a process. But [00:10:00] when people say to me, how do you do it? I talk about the three, there were three sort of motivational properties that our identity is tied to, and, the sense of communion, a sense of agency and a sense of cohesion.

[00:10:13] Elizabeth Parsons: Communion being the people we feel we belong with. Agency being, that sense that we can make things happen in the world cohesion is the routines and patterns we live. It turns out we need that to feel good. Work is almost always a huge provider of at least part of those things.

[00:10:34] Elizabeth Parsons: One way to think about bridging identity is to think intentionally about where will I get my communion? Where will I, how will I create my agency? And what is my, what's cohesion look like in this new world I'm gonna live in? What are the new patterns and routines? What does a great day look like? When do I wanna be mentally sharp?

[00:10:53] Elizabeth Parsons: When do I like to be physically active? When do I like to be social creating a structure for your [00:11:00] day because you're now gonna create that work doesn't give it to you anymore. When I work with people, we explore those questions and beginning to create answers begins to give them the content for designing what they're going to be living.

[00:11:17] Elizabeth Parsons: And it gives people such a sense of comfort to have some structure around. It's all iterative, but it's like, where do you start? And this gives you somewhere to start and all the better to Dennis's question if you can start it before you retire because you're gonna have a great, pathway starting to build so that when you actually walk out the door, you've got a lot of this already working for you.

[00:11:44] Dennis Day: Did you go through that, process yourself? Or was it. Haphazard a mystery that, was discovered. 

[00:11:52] Elizabeth Parsons: Oh, it was discovered. I was wandering around, lost. I literally remember asking myself. [00:12:00] What has happened to me. I used to be this person who could make stuff happen and I was confident I thought it was gonna be like this awesome mix of, yoga finger painting with a little wine and entrepreneurship.

[00:12:14] Elizabeth Parsons: No, I ended up utterly lost and felt so guilty because. As much as I adored being a mom, it wasn't using all of me I was unable to understand how I could deploy myself because I had been doing these billion dollar finance deals and where am I gonna do that in Tucson?

[00:12:33] Elizabeth Parsons: I couldn't figure out. How I could be relevant or useful anywhere. What I finally did was get so desperate that I had to start self-educating I had to start reading books I never would've read. I was like, how am I gonna figure this out?

[00:12:48] Elizabeth Parsons: I cannot stay this way. I took a very intentional approach to it. I went into problem solving mode, which for me is. Educate myself, take a zillion notes [00:13:00] and look for the patterns, and then what can I get into action on?

[00:13:04] Elizabeth Parsons: That's literally how it all started. 

[00:13:06] Judy Gratton: Do you recommend that if people are thinking about retiring, regardless of what someone's career is. Removing it from the center of their life. There's a withdrawal I've done. I'm a kind of a jack of all trades, so I have a few things I've been through every single time it's like there's a piece missing until it's not.

[00:13:28] Judy Gratton: Would you recommend people begin. Journaling to outline, what their day currently looks like how much time is spent here, and then remove that it sounds like you've put the roadmap together so that other people don't have to.

[00:13:46] Judy Gratton: We're definitely gonna link to your book on our podcast. 

[00:13:49] Elizabeth Parsons: There's a great framework in there to get that kind of thinking going. And I think you're right. I also think when you leave something that's been important to you and say [00:14:00] goodbye to it, no one ever uses this term, but there's a little bit of grieving, even if it's exactly right.

[00:14:06] Elizabeth Parsons: I made the choice to leave. I was. Aware that I could not sustain my life the way it was structured. And I was like, goodbye old friend. But it made me sad. I used to belong there and these people have been my colleagues and friends and I know how life works there.

[00:14:22] Elizabeth Parsons: So saying goodbye to all that sad, and I think nobody ever talks about it with retirement because everyone around you is like popping the champagne cork, and the person retirings like, 

[00:14:33] Judy Gratton: the people who aren't retiring are saying Exactly.

[00:14:35] Judy Gratton: Celebrate. And I'm like, 

[00:14:37] Elizabeth Parsons: I think there's some of that. And then the idea that you're taking this enormous piece of time and energy, right? And saying, okay, I used to be working from, eight to six every day. Now what do I do during those hours?

[00:14:52] Elizabeth Parsons: It is a reallocation of attention and energy. To new things. One of the things I work with people on is [00:15:00] to really divide their life into the areas that matter to them. I have a framework for this in the book, for example, most people would say, I wish I had more time to devote to my health.

[00:15:12] Elizabeth Parsons: I would be out walking more, or doing this or that exercise, or I'd be with these groups of people, or eating better, whatever it is. That stuff takes time. It takes energy, it takes planning, and suddenly the opportunity's there to allocate more time to that.

[00:15:28] Elizabeth Parsons: Similarly, relationships are a huge one. People are always saying, I just don't have enough time to see my friends or my, even my close family, my peripheral family, my neighbors. Let's think about what now is a is possible it's the act of actually. Planning and allocating time to areas in life that you care about and that you wanna enrich and you wanna make more robust.

[00:15:55] Elizabeth Parsons: And it's really interesting as people start to do that, they can see wait a minute, I'm not [00:16:00] gonna be bored. I'm going to be thriving. I'm gonna be really building these parts of my life out in an intentional way. We spend time looking at what are the new opportunities for engagement and purpose and meaning?

[00:16:12] Elizabeth Parsons: What are the things you have never gotten to do that you wanna do? We get into that and that's fun. I see this as a grand opportunity, much more like a graduation into more. The minute you put that frame around it, you're like, whoa, the world's my oyster.

[00:16:26] Dennis Day: And what happens with those people who don't make this connection, that they have all this extra time, but, what do I do? 

[00:16:37] Elizabeth Parsons: Yeah. I, not necessarily see, knowing any of these people firsthand because I like to say my clients tend to. Thrive pretty successfully, because they put the work in.

[00:16:49] Elizabeth Parsons: But I think the risks that people really do decline. We all need to be challenged. We all need to be pulled forward into more, [00:17:00] and I think we wither as human beings when. We think a life of pure leisure is gonna be enough.

[00:17:06] Elizabeth Parsons: I think there's a huge risk of isolation. A risk of a loss of confidence that's very much what happened to me temporarily. I didn't feel intentional about what I was doing with my life. I felt lost. And so that aimlessness and that sense of I don't have a direction.

[00:17:24] Elizabeth Parsons: It eats away at you to the point where you feel embarrassed like you're the only one who got this wrong somehow. I've heard that a lot from my clients, they think they're the only ones feeling squeamish about this. I'm like, oh no, everybody feels squeamish about this.

[00:17:42] Elizabeth Parsons: And suddenly it's a relief to realize, oh, it's so normal for this inflection point to be this challenging 'cause it's so comprehensive. So I just think if you take the leap, I'm sure there are a percentage of people who figure it out and maybe they even enjoy base jumping [00:18:00] out of life who they may find that exhilarating.

[00:18:03] Elizabeth Parsons: Most of my clients find it terrifying and scary enough that they would say they are struggling to access this same agency that they had when they were full flight in their careers. 

[00:18:20] Judy Gratton: I know my uncle was a perfect example of what you were talking about. He worked for the city of Phoenix.

[00:18:25] Judy Gratton: For as he got closer to retirement, that's all he could talk about he was a very vivacious, active man. He retired and we had moved up here, so I didn't see him for about a year, he showed up here with my aunt. And he had aged a decade.

[00:18:42] Judy Gratton: It's amazing. He had to go up and take a nap and just sat around. I looked at that and said, I don't ever want to be that, but I've never thought about how you combat that. I am thrilled to be hearing what you have to say [00:19:00] because. I think it's really difficult, especially the older you get we have clients who retired and sat down in the recliner and didn't get up again.

[00:19:10] Judy Gratton: Suddenly you're having to help them move to a senior care facility and it's not fun. It's not pretty, it's not a good way, in my opinion. Maybe some people like that. I don't.

[00:19:22] Elizabeth Parsons: I agree. To me, we're here to live and about purpose and challenge and contribution of course we all enjoy some leisure mixed in but I don't think leisure has a lot of meaning. If it's not intention, with effort of some kind. It can be effort we love, but effort nonetheless. I've never known a human to be thriving in a life of pure leisure.

[00:19:43] Elizabeth Parsons: They just, it's not what we're built for. So I think we've been sold a bill of goods not intentionally, but all the messaging around retirement is, oh, once you have enough money, you're set. Like you don't need to figure anything else out because you're just gonna be playing tennis and golfing and on some sailboats somewhere.

[00:19:59] Elizabeth Parsons: [00:20:00] And no, that is a complete bill of goods, right? That is not what makes life meaningful. And you can ask anybody after about two or three months of that, it's like this cannot continue. Or they sit in front of the TV all day and it's just the beginning of the end, literally.

[00:20:18] Judy Gratton: Now as you're speaking, I'm envisioning another area where personally I had to go through this when my children grew up and left, I had a business, and I had that whole. Business of raising my children and suddenly they're gone. That was a whole nother withdrawal that, had I thought about it in advance, maybe I could have prepared better to face it other than just that grieving and emptiness

[00:20:47] Judy Gratton: i'm sure quite a few of us go 

[00:20:49] Elizabeth Parsons: through. Absolutely. I love that you raised that because I actually address it in my book as its own version of a retirement because 

[00:20:58] Judy Gratton: Ah, 

[00:20:58] Elizabeth Parsons: Because we're [00:21:00] still parents and moms, I had four all move on to their next chapters, and of course they're still my kids and we're in touch, but my goodness, my role changed dramatically

[00:21:11] Elizabeth Parsons: never something anybody really spends a lot of time thinking about. But it's a massive change and it's often interestingly happening in and around the same time that some of my clients are retiring, they're both retiring from huge careers and also beginning. The process of launching their children a double whammy.

[00:21:37] Elizabeth Parsons: Middle adulthood was all about go and kids this and kids that, and barely look up to see what time it is 

[00:21:44] Dennis Day: so what kinds of mistakes have you noticed that retirees. Have done that leads to an unfulfilling transition in retired life?

[00:21:55] Elizabeth Parsons: Yeah, it's a great question. I would say [00:22:00] it has to do with mindsets and not embracing new mindsets from the ones you probably relied on as a full-time professional for example. I talk a lot about this in my book, but also with my clients.

[00:22:15] Elizabeth Parsons: You have got to become a creator, not a reactor. Those two words have the I identical letters in them. But reactor is, you get up, you go to work open your computer, and there's a stream of stuff coming at you to deal with. And that is the way it is.

[00:22:34] Elizabeth Parsons: You react all day to the agenda of work. If you expect life to continue to stream an agenda at you after you retire, you are going to be bored and confused because you're gonna just sit there and look for email. There's nothing coming. You've gotta create the content of your life.

[00:22:56] Elizabeth Parsons: The minute people bring that one [00:23:00] mindset into focus, you can see the shift. It's oh, you're right. I'm the one who's going. Design my daily agenda. I'm the one who's gonna plan my week. How juicy and fun is that, but it's not juicy and fun if you are expecting to react to things all day.

[00:23:17] Elizabeth Parsons: So that's one. Another one is, to be certain about outcomes. In working life, we are paid to get things right and there's a mindset around, I need to analyze things. I need to be careful. I can't take wild experiments. I need to, know how we're gonna get this done.

[00:23:33] Elizabeth Parsons: But when you are. Exploring new pathways. In this new chapter, it is way better to bring an experimental mindset forward. Try things. And it's fine if something doesn't go the way you think it will. It's just a data point. In fact, experiments don't succeed or fail. They just give us data.

[00:23:52] Elizabeth Parsons: So I remind people, don't analyze your ideas to death. Don't criticize them to death. If you have a [00:24:00] sparky thought about, maybe I'll write a book or. Start a podcast. Why not? What do you have to lose? Go give it a try. Experiment and don't burden the idea with the need for it to succeed.

[00:24:13] Elizabeth Parsons: You're not 23 anymore and this isn't like a make it or break it moment. You can just try it and have fun. When people embrace that mindset, it becomes a fun adventure instead of. This high risk, oh my gosh, it's gonna be mortifying if this doesn't work out the way I think it is.

[00:24:31] Elizabeth Parsons: It's hard to set that work mindset down where it did matter a lot to get things right. Those are a couple of areas that I would say are pretty easy pitfalls for people to step into if they're not getting out in front of those mindsets and trying to build that new muscle and think of things differently.

[00:24:51] Judy Gratton: I can think of things that were, you find people are insecure with that idea of taking the risk of stepping outside of their comfort zone? Absolutely. 

[00:24:59] Elizabeth Parsons: It's [00:25:00] always uncomfortable. Comfort zone is a big term I use in my book too, we love our comfort zones, but they're comfy, usually by the time someone's leaving a career, they have a huge sense of mastery over their role.

[00:25:11] Elizabeth Parsons: They know what they're doing. When you have to step into a world where you're a student again. You're gonna not be good at something for a little while. It's not that fun, especially if you're a person who enjoys feeling competent as many of my clients are.

[00:25:24] Elizabeth Parsons: So I remind them, don't judge yourself as the. If somebody wants to learn to play the piano, don't judge yourself as a pianist in the early days. Judge yourself as a student of the piano. Inhabit that role and be the best darn student you can be. Don't worry so much about whether you're good yet, that will come.

[00:25:43] Elizabeth Parsons: It is really interesting how hard it is to get comfortable being uncomfortable with not being competent yet at something you're trying to do. 

[00:25:53] Dennis Day: I think being competent in front of an audience is extremely important to many [00:26:00] people. And when you're retired. All the risk-taking that you do doesn't have the same magnitude or audience that it did within the job you could be fired.

[00:26:12] Dennis Day: I could be embarrassed. I could be demoted, In this case. A few people know, but not a whole company. 

[00:26:21] Elizabeth Parsons: Exactly. I asked that literal question, what is the cost of failure? What is the cost of this not working out? And it's funny because they go, you know nothing, who cares?

[00:26:30] Elizabeth Parsons: I said, the real way to look at this. Is that, you're a role model for the people watching you. Someday somebody's gonna talk about how you were in retirement and those younger people, whoever they are in your life, you are setting an example. You're either gonna be the example of the person that went out and did even more, went after cool opportunities, started new things, made new friends.

[00:26:55] Elizabeth Parsons: Just lived it up to, the last minute, or you're gonna be that person. It's I [00:27:00] guess he just sat in his armchair and watched TV until he died. And you think of it that way and it's oh my gosh. But we are all setting those examples, whether we're thinking of it that way or not.

[00:27:12] Dennis Day: Do you think, if somebody's retiring at, 55 or 60. Is there a difference between somebody who's retiring at 80 or 85? 

[00:27:22] Elizabeth Parsons: I think so. Mainly around just the stage of life and the level of energy that somebody's got. Many of my clients are retiring around 55.

[00:27:34] Elizabeth Parsons: Work with people at organizations where that age is the earliest they can vest into some sort of benefit they've worked hard and they've got more than enough money. So it just makes sense retire. But boy. I'm older than 55. It's young.

[00:27:52] Elizabeth Parsons: They're clear that just do nothing. They are very interested in defining for themselves what [00:28:00] is going to be a spectacular next chapter. What we talk about usually at that age is, look, if you are gonna live a fantastic decade, put yourself at 65.

[00:28:09] Elizabeth Parsons: You're looking back. What have you done? What are the things that you've been involved in? Where did you make contributions? Is there a big audacious goal that you still have that you haven't yet been able to pursue? It's very interesting what comes out of those questions because.

[00:28:25] Elizabeth Parsons: There's a lot of gas left in the tank and a lot of wisdom accrued I always encourage people to go for it, go for more than you think you can achieve and you're never going to regret doing that at 85,

[00:28:37] Elizabeth Parsons: I don't work with a lot of people at that age, but knowing the people I do know who are still very engaged. Are much more interested in the depth of relationships in their lives, even at 55, relationships are always. An awesome place to invest.

[00:28:55] Elizabeth Parsons: It is never, going to be a mistake to invest in relationships. [00:29:00] I even talk about relationship portfolios. You know we all talk about our money portfolio, but what's your relationship portfolio? Is it rich with friends? Is it rich with family and neighbors and community?

[00:29:10] Elizabeth Parsons: The more of that you can create, the happier you will be. At 85 is what I've observed. 

[00:29:18] Judy Gratton: So many people, that's such a hard thing right now for people, especially younger people. They don't have any portfolios of relationships and they're very afraid to get involved with other people and it's sad.

[00:29:31] Elizabeth Parsons: Yes. 

[00:29:32] Judy Gratton: Someone told me a long time ago, and I've kept this with me. What other people think of me is none of my business. One of my favorite 

[00:29:40] Elizabeth Parsons: quotes. 

[00:29:40] Judy Gratton: I love that. Isn't that brilliant? I can go out and do just about anything I want because I don't care what you think of me. It matter?

[00:29:49] Elizabeth Parsons: Exactly. I think that's such a lovely example to set for others because. It matters what we think of us, at the end of the day, that's who we really have to answer to. 

[00:29:59] Judy Gratton: You've gotta look [00:30:00] in the mirror and did you accomplish what you wanted to accomplish?

[00:30:03] Judy Gratton: Are you happy with do you run into people? That are being forced into retirement? Yes. My husband was in the wine industry as it was booming for 35 years from, a smaller distributor to a national, to a international.

[00:30:20] Judy Gratton: And they just got bigger and bigger until they're now getting smaller and smaller. And the older he got, the harder it was to make a transition into another. Corporation he finally went into real estate with me too demoralizing I'm wondering, do you run into people like that? 

[00:30:39] Elizabeth Parsons: Absolutely. It's very common, in a number of industries now for the general culture to be. Leaning younger. I think of the legal industry. 20 or 30 years ago, the idea of retiring at 55 would've seemed like utter madness.

[00:30:56] Elizabeth Parsons: Now it's really common and often [00:31:00] not optional. There can be negative emotion to process when you feel forced. Into something like that when you are still very productive contributive, and still enjoying it. We do occasionally work with people coping with feeling rejected by the context they have committed their lives to.

[00:31:21] Elizabeth Parsons: I always remind people the way things end often colors the way we see an entire experience. Think about a marriage, somebody could have a 20 year marriage, five years of terrible divorce, and the whole thing is just yuck, so I remind people, don't let the way this ends color the whole thing. You've had a spectacular career. You need to drive this narrative. You need to frame it for yourself in the best and most productive, way you can. Who cares what the choice or the impetus was? At this moment in time?

[00:31:59] Elizabeth Parsons: [00:32:00] You are going to choose to leave. Positively, powerfully on top, stepping into the future. That's the way you wanna leave this thing. It just makes sense, but it's very easy to fall into the trap of being angry and then letting it embitter you toward what was really a pretty awesome career, yeah. I always try to help people avoid that because I feel like it's a shame, a sadness that one, small period of time could color the whole thing.

[00:32:29] Judy Gratton: Now, you're in Tucson, but do you have people coming to you from all over the country yes. Do you deal individually with them do you have zoom meetings how do you run your business beyond the book? 

[00:32:41] Elizabeth Parsons: So we do a variety of different programming. Our longest standing and most premium work is two days. With one person going very deep into their circumstance and helping them create a plan for their future, we continue working with [00:33:00] them as they implement that over a year or two.

[00:33:02] Elizabeth Parsons: Typically, those people come and work with us in Tucson. We've worked with people all over the world. Sometimes we'll meet people, from Asia in Hawaii, or people who work in European companies in Europe, but for the most part, people will come to Tucson.

[00:33:16] Elizabeth Parsons: Or when we were in Santa Fe, people came to Santa Fe to work with us. We also are now doing group programming quarterly. We always work in resort environments a person's gotta be comfortable coming to a group session, it's a two and a half day seminar workshop what I enjoy about those, and I think people like, is that they're going through this with a cohort so they can really build a community of people going through something similar. It's interesting to see how those relationships end up.

[00:33:45] Elizabeth Parsons: Being supportive, across this whole, transition. Yes, we also have, zoom based programs for people that say, I'd love to engage in this deeply. That's usually done over a full day or split into two, [00:34:00] depending on the client's preference, it's very similar material.

[00:34:03] Elizabeth Parsons: Just virtual and more convenient for people sometimes we are happy to accommodate it. I love being in a room with someone, but sometimes that's just not very convenient. We have tried to create versions of this work over the years that can accommodate people's different needs, different tolerances for expense and those kinds of things.

[00:34:24] Dennis Day: You find that there are cultural or even gender differences in the expectations or thoughts about what retirement is. 

[00:34:35] Elizabeth Parsons: Five or six years ago, we had not worked much with anybody internationally, and I was very curious about that myself, but very question like, is all this gonna translate culturally?

[00:34:46] Elizabeth Parsons: And what is interesting because what we're really dealing with. Most fundamentally is the human side of this. It fully translates, some of the more practical opportunities and [00:35:00] methods of implementing, ideas are shaped by, local regions and relationships

[00:35:07] Elizabeth Parsons: but that's fine because. What we're really there to do is help people get out of their own heads what they really want for themselves. We facilitate this work with them. Everything we do comes from them, and we help them shape it into action and support their actions.

[00:35:25] Elizabeth Parsons: I literally had that very question, but have fully convinced myself after many experiences that we humans, are all grappling with the same stuff. 

[00:35:35] Judy Gratton: What's the youngest person that's come to you to help plan this out?

[00:35:39] Elizabeth Parsons: I think the youngest person we have worked with. Occasionally, it's people who sell companies and they're slightly different right? Than a long term, four decade professional. But they're just as intense in their commitment to what they've just done. And they've been working towards this exit.[00:36:00] 

[00:36:00] Elizabeth Parsons: And now they've sold Hooray. Now what? Now what? So there was somebody in their forties. Might've been late thirties, we helped with that transition and just thinking about what does this next year look like? Is it just a sabbatical where you can reflect on what you wanna do next, and then some ideas and pathways for what that might be, because he obviously wanted another.

[00:36:24] Elizabeth Parsons: But in the professional context, we've worked with people as early as 50 who, knew they were gonna leave at 55. Wanted to get way out in front of this so that by the time 55 came, they had been building into this.

[00:36:38] Elizabeth Parsons: New future. For some that would be way too far out. But there are people who wanna be four or five years ahead of it. Most people, are comfortable 18 months to a year out. In front. That's the most common.

[00:36:50] Dennis Day: In your book, it's 

[00:36:51] Judy Gratton: i'm really impressed that you did this. You did all the footwork for people. If someone just buys your book, what can they exp? Is [00:37:00] there a workbook or anything that goes along with that, 

[00:37:02] Elizabeth Parsons: There is not yet a workbook. I've been asked that several times.

[00:37:06] Elizabeth Parsons: I am seriously thinking about working on that. It's more a framework. Divided into four parts. The first section is an exploration of why is retirement so challenging? What are the psychological challenges about it? What did we all get told about it?

[00:37:20] Elizabeth Parsons: Then I talk about, identity bridging, how to restructure life and how to think about that. And a section on. Getting into action, what does it mean to do this with the people in your life? What are the implications for marriage and family?

[00:37:33] Elizabeth Parsons: How do you get into action and stay in action and enjoy this thing? It's a very structured book the feedback I've gotten is that it's helpful there are plenty of prompts throughout the book, to give a person some self facilitation guidance.

[00:37:51] Elizabeth Parsons: Many people who've read the book have of course reached out and said, no, I just wanna work with you can face, because I can see I need this. It was helpful to understand all the [00:38:00] stuff, but I need more hands-on help. 

[00:38:03] Dennis Day: Within your book, you emphasized the importance of rebuilding connections and purpose.

[00:38:10] Dennis Day: In your retirement. Can you explain what that means and what actions people can do to achieve this? 

[00:38:17] Elizabeth Parsons: For the purpose side, one of the discussions we typically have with people is that for many of our clients, they are summiting the peak of middle adulthood,

[00:38:28] Elizabeth Parsons: they've got their families raised, they've had this smashing career. They've built the financial security they've been working for. But when you think about what purpose has been, in many ways, it's fulfilled. It's well done. Take a moment and let's have a round of applause because you did it.

[00:38:46] Elizabeth Parsons: When you started off in your twenties, this is what you were trying to do, and that purpose has fueled you. So now the question is what is your purpose? What's going to fuel your life [00:39:00] now? Sometimes people have an unlived life, something they didn't do yet that they wanted to do.

[00:39:07] Elizabeth Parsons: I can share a story about, a great example of in my book. One idea, that there's this thing you never got to do because you were too busy trying to be the responsible adult and you did that really well. But is there that thing, or are you now at a place where the financial resources you have are gonna unlock some sort of fresh purpose?

[00:39:29] Elizabeth Parsons: Is there a philanthropic road you want to go down? Is there a cause that you wanna get involved in and help support? Do you want to work with young people and help them find their way? What are the things that are gonna give your life meaning? It's a hard question, but what I think is true for most of our clients is that they've checked the box on one of the major life purposes they had.

[00:39:51] Elizabeth Parsons: And not that it won't continue in some way. We all still. Are there for our families and things, but it's not the same level of fuel. In the [00:40:00] process of redefining purpose, I remind people that these new pathways of purpose are going to provide all kinds of rich opportunities. Two, create relationships with human beings that are gonna be meaningful in your life in a new way.

[00:40:16] Elizabeth Parsons: One of the big complaints about this stage of life is where do I meet people? How do we meet people? We could meet people when we were raising our kids. I met people at work you've got to move down these new pathways and you're gonna find the people who have these shared interests, these shared passions, that's where you find them.

[00:40:34] Elizabeth Parsons: So to me, they go together one feeds the other in the exploration of these new pathways, new people pop up with new ideas, new inspiration, and they take you off in directions you would've never thought of on your own. So I see them as a very synergistic set of, goals.

[00:40:53] Dennis Day: From your experience as a dedicated professional to your business and now, your law work, and [00:41:00] then as now as a consultant, what advice would you give to somebody who's contemplating retirement? 

[00:41:09] Elizabeth Parsons: I think what I would primarily say to them is. Are they excited?

[00:41:18] Elizabeth Parsons: Are they nervous? Are they worried? Assuming they need advice and therefore they're perhaps worried, I would say, first of all, you are not alone. Everybody feels this way. Go find people who've been through this already. Find role models who are living a chapter after a big career that you admire, that you think is interesting and fun.

[00:41:44] Elizabeth Parsons: Get their advice, get with them, and get with people. Use this as an excuse to get out there. Start getting advice and finding who else should I be talking to? Explore, use it as an excuse to do [00:42:00] that. You almost cannot go wrong if you do that. If I were just gonna give people one todo item, it would be that get out there.

[00:42:08] Judy Gratton: I found that talk with people love to give advice. Yeah, they do. You reach out and I just wanted to pick your brain, man. They're right there. Absolutely. 

[00:42:18] Elizabeth Parsons: I always tell them, get those meetings set up with the people you know, and they're gonna love to give you advice.

[00:42:24] Elizabeth Parsons: The next question is, who else should I talk to? Boom, there you go. You've got a warm introduction to somebody who's probably got something relevant to say and you do that a few times and you're off and running and I see magic come outta that, 

[00:42:38] Judy Gratton: right? 

[00:42:39] Elizabeth Parsons: Yeah. 

[00:42:40] Dennis Day: Elizabeth, you are a energetic effervescence and you like people, I can tell.

[00:42:48] Dennis Day: What about the person who's introverted? 

[00:42:53] Elizabeth Parsons: All the time? Yes. Very commonly, in fact, more introverts than extroverts for sure. [00:43:00] And it's interesting because a lot of more introverted people imagine that they aren't going to be good at what I just described.

[00:43:08] Elizabeth Parsons: And what I remind them of is, you just need your alone time. You need a lot more alone time to recharge yourself than maybe somebody who's more extroverted. So just make sure you have that, you don't have to pack your days with this stuff. Even if you were to say, I'm going to make a commitment.

[00:43:27] Elizabeth Parsons: To set up two encounters a week with somebody. That's enough. There's no magic number. But don't let the story that you're an introvert translate into, I can't do this because that's not true. I've seen many people who are absolute flag flying introverts.

[00:43:48] Elizabeth Parsons: Do this very successfully. It's all about right sizing it and making sure you are protecting the time you need as an introverted person to recharge your batteries the way you [00:44:00] like to, which is probably on your own. Nothing wrong with that. That's different than isolation.

[00:44:04] Elizabeth Parsons: Solitude is lovely if it's being chosen. 

[00:44:08] Elizabeth Parsons: Yeah.

[00:44:09] Judy Gratton: Do you have any last words of wisdom to share on this, Elizabeth?

[00:44:14] Elizabeth Parsons: Why shouldn't this be the most spectacular chapter of your life? A lot of people start to imagine it's the beginning of the end and I'm like this is the beginning of the best thing you're ever gonna live. Why wouldn't it be?

[00:44:28] Elizabeth Parsons: You've got the wisdom of experience. Some financial security control over your time. You have relationships, you know how the world works. Who you are, what you're good at. Why wouldn't you be able to put that together? And create something truly spectacular.

[00:44:44] Elizabeth Parsons: That's a fun idea. I would just leave everybody with that thought don't discount how wonderfully rich this can be, just because we are all stuck with that bad word. Retirement. 

[00:44:57] Dennis Day: Ultimately it seems it's self-empowerment. [00:45:00] Yes. Take control of your life. Choose the path.

[00:45:03] Dennis Day: And it might be a windy path. 

[00:45:05] Elizabeth Parsons: Yeah. 

[00:45:05] Dennis Day: Thank you so much for joining us on this podcast. You're an incredible resource for people who have retired or close to rehiring or contemplating the five year plan if our listeners or YouTube viewers wanted more information about you, your consulting business, your book, how would they contact you?

[00:45:28] Elizabeth Parsons: Sure. It's very easy to find me on LinkedIn and all of my, various websites, you can also go to high achiever retirement.com and that'll take you to various doorways, websites, books and programs. Those are probably the. Two best ways, and the book is available everywhere books are sold, 

[00:45:47] Judy Gratton: definitely put a link to the book and to your website on our podcast and YouTube channel, this has been a really fun conversation. 

[00:45:57] Elizabeth Parsons: It's been lovely to meet you both, 

[00:45:58] Dennis Day: What is the website? 

[00:45:59] Elizabeth Parsons: [00:46:00] That'll get people to all the right places. 

[00:46:02] Dennis Day: For this episode of Getting Your Edge, how to Downsize Your Life. We hope today's conversation has given you clarity and encouragement as you plan your next chapter.

[00:46:17] Dennis Day: If you're thinking about downsizing, don't go it alone. The Edge Group team, Judy and I, and Jim. We're here to help you. We are the downsizing experts and we have experience in home, transitioning to a smaller home RV retirement community. Wherever your journey leads, you connect us through our website, edge group team.com, and get started on your path towards downsizing.

[00:46:48] Dennis Day: We look forward to helping you the next step. Bye everyone. Thank you, Elizabeth. Bye. Really appreciate it. 

[00:46:55] Judy Gratton: Bye-bye. Thank you so much, Elizabeth. Take care. 

​[00:47:00]