Bloom Your Mind

Ep 114: Listening is Sexy

• Marie McDonald

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Did you know being an excellent listener is a way to practice great boundaries?

It’s hard as hell to do, with a human ego standing right in the way…but it’s also the skill with the single biggest payoff.  

Listening as a boundary tool always surprises people when they hear it for the first time. Until a few seconds later…when they have a lightbulb moment. 

Great listening makes the space between two people clear, instead of muddy. 

When we listen to someone without argument, disagreement, or judgement and instead reflect back what we’re hearing; we hold up a mirror that lovingly keeps them accountable to what they’re sharing. We keep the space between us clear, until it’s time for us to share. And this keeps us more accountable to our own words as well. 

Great listening reverses a triggered nervous system, bolsters empathy and connection, and ultimately gives each person we’re in relationship witn the one thing that they want most. 

What you’ll learn in this episode: 

  • How being a great listener =  having great boundaries 
  • How to keep clarity around “what’s yours and what’s mine” during disagreements 
  • How listening keeps us, and others accountable  
  • How listening moves us out of fight or flight and into empathy 
  • What to do when we don’t agree…(this might surprise you!)  
  • Learn why we letting others have their feelings and experience is the golden ticket for us to have our own experience too 
  • Why being the better listener is worth it, every. Single. Time. 

If I could give the world a gift, and just download every human with one skill, it would be to listen to understand others across differences. 

Truly listening to understand someone is truly seeing them. Listening is loving. And that’s just sexy. 

All of us just want to be heard and understood. In order to experience that, we need to hear and understand. 

So let’s hold hands and go first. 

You and me. 

Let’s listen first.

Mentioned in this episode: 

How to connect with Marie:

JOIN THE BLOOM ROOM!
We'll take all these ideas and apply them to our lives. Follow me on Instagram at @the.bloom.coach to learn more and snag a spot in my group coaching program!

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Bloom your Mind Podcast, where we take all of your ideas for what you want and we turn them into real things. I'm your host, certified Coach Marie McDonald. Let's get into it. Hello everyone. Hello everyone. This episode is coming out on valentine's day and it is episode 114 of the bloom your mind podcast.

Speaker 1:

I got this text today from a member of the bloom room that texted me right afterwards and she said said this, that was amazing, from the bottom of my big old heart, in all caps. She said thank you, and the word amazing was in all caps and I was like you know. I texted her back and I said well, everyone just brought it today. I'm so grateful for this group. And she texted me back again and she said you are definitely changing the world and I am so happy to be a part of it. That was after some coaching today on the topic that this episode is about, which is why I read you that text. It is about the number one skill that we can bring to our relationships and every time I teach someone this skill, it is both the most difficult thing that any of us can practice and can do of conflict and war and tribalism and discord and broken relationships. Doing it well is the root of healing communication, that sort of like bridges, gaps, gaps and heels divides long lasting relationships, deep, rich, incredible relationships, and is the key to truly knowing the others in your life and being known. Known, but again, it is the hardest thing to do and also the very most fulfilling.

Speaker 1:

One of the things that came up in the bloom room today is that there are different ways of saying this, but oftentimes things get really really hard before they get better. There are different ways of thinking about this. There's something called the extinction burst, when in a kid's behavior, right before they're going to stop doing something that you've really been working on them with, they'll have a big explosion of that behavior and it's called an extinction burst. You can look it up and read about it. There's a group called 2B Magnetic and they talk about how, before you really experience what you're really working towards, you'll go through something called a magic dark, which is where you're really like being tested with all of the new boundaries you're setting and the things that you're really doing for yourself and that you're really trying, the ways you're trying to change. And I see it, you know, in the work that we do in the bloom room. We have to fail a lot with our iterations of our ideas, the thing that we're trying to turn from a glimmer of possibility in our minds into a real thing. We have to fail as we iterate and learn from those failures over and over, and then all of a sudden things get better.

Speaker 1:

It's a game of inches, making tiny progress, little by little by little, towards our goals. And that game of inches, which I'll talk about next week, more is true in our projects, by keeping our momentum, little bit by little bit. It's true in our relationships. It's true everywhere. We make great progress by making consistent, small steps toward what we're looking for. And that is true of our relationships and this skill that I'm teaching you today. The other thing that is true is that this skill is applicable to adults in our lives, to our primary relationships, to our family members, whether that's our nuclear family or our current family or our chosen family, and it's true of any other relationships, friendships and also relationships with children.

Speaker 1:

I will also say that there are different levels that you can practice this tool and it gets harder and harder and harder, and your primary partner in your life is one of the trickiest usually, and or your parents or your nuclear family. Those are the two that tend to be the trickiest to apply this tool with. And so you know, just know that, and when trying any new set of tools or resources or practices, give yourself a lot of self-love, lots of compassion, lots of. You know, if you try and you fail, celebrate that you tried. That way you'll try again. If you try and you feel and you beat yourself up, you'll probably not try again. So let's always celebrate the progress that we made. Let's always measure how well we're doing against where we came from, which is never having done it before. So every attempt that you make is something to celebrate and you'll get a little bit better and a little bit better, a little at a time, a little bit better, a little at a time.

Speaker 1:

This tool is all about how to understand somebody else's experience In a relationship. The tool might even be how to understand someone else's experience of you. Here are the two things that have been the very most valuable in practicing how to understand another person. The very first thing is that when I understood that listening to someone else is me having a boundary, it changed everything for me and I'm going to see that again a little bit later on in the episode. But practicing wonderful listening skills, active listening skills, is a way of setting a boundary. Here's what I mean. Listening is the skill we're talking about today, active listening, mirror listening, which I've talked about in a different episode and listen to this. But this is version 2.0 and I'm going deeper into this today.

Speaker 1:

Listening to someone else is the way that we practice understanding what is yours and what is mine, what is yours and what is mine. When we get really good at listening to someone else and validating their experience and understanding their experience, then it doesn't get mixed up with our own and muddied up with our own, our own and muddied up with our own. The minute that we start arguing with someone else's experience, in the middle of when they're sharing, we're mixing our experience in with theirs and making it all muddy. So it means that not only do they not get to have their experience, but we don't get to have ours either, because now it's all mixed up. When we can listen to someone else's feelings and someone else's experience and validate someone else's feelings and someone else's experience, no matter what those feelings and experience are, that is when we get to have our feelings and our experience, because we are keeping separate what is theirs and what is ours. The way that this works is when someone is sharing and comes to us to say, hey, I had this experience and I didn't like what you did and this is how I experienced it.

Speaker 1:

We may have parts of us that start to raise up their heads like little meerkats. Can you picture meerkats that are like they like pick up their heads and look around and are like uh-uh, uh-uh. I don't agree with that. That is not right. That is not how that went down. No way, that is not. I do not agree with that. That ain't right. We just want to encourage those little meerkats to settle back down and in that moment, just say this is not about me, this is about them. What's mine, what's theirs. When we can understand that someone else's feelings and experience are truly about them, not about us, that is when healing begins.

Speaker 1:

Now, what I don't mean is that when you're hearing someone else talk, you're not taking their feedback. I'm not saying that. I am saying, in the moment of listening, your only job is not to agree or disagree, but to understand what they thought about an experience, what they experienced, what they thought about it and what they felt about it. Later on, you can decide what you think, you can decide whether you agree. You can decide if it matched your experience In the first moment, when they're speaking, your only job is to listen to understand what it was like for them. When we can let them have that, when we can let them, we can love them enough to say no matter what I think, what I think, I can acknowledge that you think too. No matter what I feel, I can acknowledge that you feel too. No matter what I experienced, I can still acknowledge that you experienced too. That is our golden ticket, like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, to having our own experience too.

Speaker 1:

First, we got to let them have their experience. We're really good in our brains at conflating them, at listening to someone else and immediately thinking what was this like for me? Do I agree? Do I not agree? What the heck? What is this even about? What are they saying? Instead of listening like a lover by a lover, I just mean someone who loves Our one job is to listen to understand what it was like for them. So when they say, here's what that was like, we say, okay, so let me get this. So when they say here's what that was like, we say, okay, so let me get this.

Speaker 1:

What I think you're telling me is, and we repeat back to them in the most authentic way that we can, whatever it is that they said here's what I heard, you felt this, you felt this, you felt this, this is how it went down for you. Is that right? And you're feeling this now. And when we do that, we are a mirror. We are mirroring back to the person who is speaking what they said, what they felt, what they experienced. When we are a mirror, that is how our listening becomes our boundary. Do you see that? Because we're not agreeing, we're not disagreeing, we're not commenting, we're not fighting, we're not muddying up the water by adding our experience into their experience? We are holding a mirror that says I'm getting you, I'm loving you, I'm validating you. That mirror also creates accountability.

Speaker 1:

When we can say back to someone here's what you're saying, here's what you felt, here's what you experienced, and we say is that right? Then they just hear back what they put out into the world unfiltered. They're hearing it right back and it creates accountability for them. Is that really what I wanted? Is that really what I thought Is that really what I felt? Wait a minute, maybe that's not actually, maybe I'm being a little hasty here, or and they can change it a little bit and they can say actually, okay, wait, that's not exactly what I feel and think. Here's what I really experience and think and feel right, but it's a clean, clear mirror, what's mine, what's yours, what's mine, what's yours. It's not muddy, it's not triggery, triggery, triggery. I'm triggering you, you're triggering me. It's just the person told you what went down for them.

Speaker 1:

You hold up a loving mirror. Here's what went down for you. Did I get that right? And then they get a chance to see the reflection. They see exactly what they said, that they felt, they experienced and they thought. And they get to say, okay, wait, let me change some things. Or they get to say, yes, that is what I experienced. And what happens then is they feel validated, they feel loved and, just like the air going out of a balloon, they go out of their triggered place where they want to fight or they want to run away, or they want to freeze or fawn, whatever their fight or flight response is, it lets all of that out of them. And so then the air's out of the balloon, the power's out of the conversation, the oxygen's out of the fire, and they've been heard and they feel loved. This can happen in one sentence. It can happen in bigger conversations, in many sentences. I'm taking a lot of sentences to describe it right now so you really understand what I'm saying. But this can happen real quick.

Speaker 1:

Someone comes to you and say you know, it felt really frustrating that you threw your laundry on the ground last night. And you can say, ah, that was really frustrating for you. You really don't like your laundry on the ground last night. And you can say, ah, that was really frustrating for you. You really don't like the laundry on the ground. You can be like, yeah, it makes me feel like you don't respect that I'm always doing the laundry. You can say it feels disrespectful because I threw my laundry on the ground and that feels disrespectful because you're always doing the laundry. I get that. I get that. So you're just mirroring back what they said to you and it takes all the steam. It takes all the steam out of it. They feel validated. You heard them rather than immediately coming back with but it was late and I was tired and it was dark or whatever, who cares? The very first thing is that they raised their hand first to say something. And so often in conversation someone comes and raises their hand to say something and all they're looking for is for them to say the thing they want to say, and you hear it. And instead of hearing it, we reply with something else, which is like changing the subject.

Speaker 1:

Let me give you another metaphor for this. In yoga, you can do a backbend, right when your feet and your hands are on the ground, and you push up, and it's called a wheel. So it's like you can imagine a circle or a sphere or just a circle, actually cut in half along the diameter. So it's half circle. Right, a person looks like a half circle, with their hands on the ground doing a backbend and their feet on the ground. So it's half circle. Right, a person looks like a half circle, with their hands on the ground doing a backbend and their feet on the ground. So let's say I'm going to go do a backbend and I come to you and I say, hey, I'm going to do a backbend and it's a wood floor.

Speaker 1:

That's kind of hard. Could you spot me, you know, can you make sure I don't fall? And instead you say, no, I'm actually going to do a backbend. You spot me? That would be so weird, right? You're like wait, but I just asked you to spot me and you're saying no, you're going to do it instead first. That's so weird, right? We wouldn't do that. We would be like either yes, I will spot you, or let's take turns, go ahead. You asked first, you go, and then I'll go.

Speaker 1:

Right, let's take another example. I have a cut on my hand and I come to you and I say, hey, I have a cut on my hand, can I have a bandaid? It's bleeding and it hurts. And you ignore that and say, actually, I have a cut on my hand, can you give me a bandaid? It's weird. Maybe you'd say, oh my gosh, we both have cuts. Yeah, let's get some band-aids. Here's one for you. I'll help you put it on. Can you help me put mine on too? Right, both people get to be heard, both people get a band-aid, both people get a spot when they're doing a backbend, but the person who asked first at least gets acknowledged first. Okay, are you tracking how this relates to the conversation?

Speaker 1:

One person comes and says, hey, you threw your laundry on the floor, and oftentimes in relationships, we tell them why it doesn't matter. We say I came in late and it was dark, without ever acknowledging what they said was dark. Without ever acknowledging what they said, we say, no, I'm going to do a backbend. You spot me, without ever acknowledging that they asked for it. All we have to do to write this is when they say, hey, it really bothered me that you threw your laundry on the floor. You say, oh gosh, I hear you, that's annoying, I threw my laundry on the floor. And they say, yeah, and I work really hard to do the laundry. And you say, I know you work really hard to do the laundry. I hear you, that was super annoying that I threw it on the floor. Hey, we just gave them a spot. They did a backbend, they made themselves vulnerable to tell us something because they trust us and we showed up for them and we spotted them and they're going to feel great and validated. And then we can say you know, it was late and it was dark and I am so tired when I come home. It be okay with you if, every once in a while, if I do that, if I promise to pick it up first thing and then you can. Maybe the answer's yes, maybe the answer's no, you can discuss it. But no matter what happens, spot their backbend.

Speaker 1:

First, me, allowing you to have your feeling and your experience is the ticket to me. Being able to have my experience and my feeling too, listening and holding up a mirror that's not all muddy, by mixing up all of my experience with your experience. That is having a boundary, keeping the boundary between what's mine, what's yours, what's mine, what's yours super clear so we can love each other. And it creates accountability, because we're not all mixed up in a big, you know cake batter bowl. I can tell what's yours and what's mine, and you can tell more easily what's yours and what's mine, because I didn't mix them up.

Speaker 1:

I listened to you, I validated you, I repeated back what I heard, I checked for understanding. It was your turn because you raised your hand first, and then what happens, my friends, is when the air is out of the balloon and we really listen to understand somebody else, two beautiful things happen. Then we get our turn and the other person is not in fight or flight anymore, so they can actually hear us, and oftentimes we don't really need to talk so much anymore. There's a part of you that may feel like wait a minute, but I want to talk, and that's great. I remember the first time I heard this whole concept, I felt the same, but then I experienced it and when I did all the hard work of listening and listening and listening, for the first few times when I was really wanting to talk, I felt the truth of it. It feels awesome to actually not need to talk that bad, to actually just like say the couple things that are really important then for you to say afterward. But once you listen to someone else's experience, your empathy kicks in. You go out of fight or flight or annoyance or whatever, and your empathy kicks in.

Speaker 1:

Okay, let's take a few of the most common questions that people ask me about this. Number one what if I am triggered? And what if they're triggered? If you're triggered too, you just want to take a break. Take a break, take five minutes, everybody, cool down and then come back to it. Five minutes, ten minutes. However, you need what if it's really really really hard to do this at first? Well, it is, I. Back to it Five minutes, 10 minutes. However, you need what if it's really really really hard to do this at first. Well it is, I tell you, it is like so hard. Even if we're really, really grown it's so hard. But here's a little trick With kids it's a talking stick, right.

Speaker 1:

When I hold the talking stick, it's my turn to talk and it's your turn to listen. Your only job is to listen. When it's my turn to hold the talking stick, I get to share my experience, you get to listen. You get to ask questions about my experience that are not passive aggressive. By the way, if in your question asking you get passive aggressive, do not ask questions. Just repeat back what they said. I said that today in the bloom room when we were talking about this and I got some big giggles from people and they were like nodding. So if you're asking questions to check for understanding and you notice you're getting cheeky, you're getting passive, aggressive, cut it out. Don't ask those questions, just repeat back what you're hearing in a not weird way. Okay, but back to the talking stick. You know I used to work with children a lot and the talking stick is magic and you know what's really helpful in adult relationships.

Speaker 1:

A talking stick it can be imaginary if you want. When it's your turn to listen, you can just tell yourself they have the talking stick right now. And you can say to the person hey, I'm going to listen to you and I want to really listen to you and really understand you, and then I'll talk later, but I really want to understand you first. You can even say that out loud, which is the second question. Which is what if I never get a turn? Well, you can say to the person hey, listen, it's really important to me that we understand each other. Would you be okay with me really listening to you first and really just getting everything that you experienced, and then can we switch so we can each take a turn Because it's so important to me that we understand each other. You can say it like that, okay.

Speaker 1:

Next question that I get a lot of is what if I don't agree with what they're saying? And here's the tough love answer, my loves Tough. The answer is it's not about whether you agree or not. Remember one of my bloom room people said you know, it's just really hard for me to hear people talking BS. I'm just going to call bullshit on it and we all laughed and I said great, and that's going to stop the listening.

Speaker 1:

You know, in the moment your job is to hold up a mirror and reflect back what they're saying, so you're understanding it. That's nonviolent communication using compassionate wording. Right, here's what I'm hearing you saying, even if you don't agree, because once it's your turn, you can talk about how you don't actually agree with that, but your first job is to repeat back what you hear and remember. The big reasons here are because that's a mirror. You're not muddying the space between the two of you. The minute you disagree, right in the moment, before validating and hearing them, you're getting muddy water. You're confusing what's mine, what's yours, what's mine, what's yours, and you're not holding up a mirror that allows them to hear themselves, which creates some accountability for their own opinion. Right, if there's mud in there, if you make it muddy and argue right away, then they're going to get defensive. If you just validate, they can hear themselves. They can hear what they're saying and be like oh yeah, that is what I think. Or wait, maybe I didn't, maybe that's a little dramatic, maybe I didn't actually think that, or whatever it is. So if you don't agree, it's not your turn to disagree or agree. It's not about you in this moment. It's just about holding up a mirror and listening. Then another one, two more Q&A, and then I'm going to wrap up here.

Speaker 1:

What if I'm always the one that has to be the first listener? What if I always have to go first? This can be tough, and I went through this. There was a time in my life where I was like why do I always have to be the grownup? Why do I always, in all my relationships, have to be the one that is listening and using compassionate listening? And you know what someone said to me Do you want to be the other person, not the other individual specifically. Just they were saying to me who do you want to be? Do you want to be someone who listens or not? And I was like, oh right, I don't want to be someone that doesn't listen. I don't want to be someone that can't hear other people. If I have to be the one that is practicing good listening, every time I will, because that's who I want to be. And the very last thing is what if I'm always having to be the teacher? And this is one that I think you know is really one for boundaries too.

Speaker 1:

So we talked about how listening is a mirror and it's a way of having boundaries. You being a good listener is you having boundaries because you're keeping clear what is mine and what is yours. You're not agreeing, you're not disagreeing. You're holding up a mirror to understand lovingly and reflect what someone else has experienced. You get to understand them over there it's not you, it's them Lovingly. Understand who they are, where they are, what they experienced, them lovingly. Understand who they are where they are, what they experienced and also, if they're really wanting to learn how to listen from you and sometimes this can be really difficult I've worked with lots of couples where it was really difficult for one of them to learn and the other one really got it.

Speaker 1:

If you're feeling like in one of your relationships you're constantly in the teacher role, it's okay to say not right now. It's okay to say you know what. I can't do this right now. I can't teach right now. I'm feeling too flooded or triggered or I'm exhausted and I just I love you and I can't walk through this right now.

Speaker 1:

One tool that I've seen work well is to write it down. If you want to write it down and give it to them instead, or you can just say I'm this time I'm not going to walk you through it, you get to have boundaries. Listening is a form of boundaries. It is a form of compassion. It is a form of connection. It is a form of boundary. It is truly a form of connection. It is a form of boundary. It is truly a form of love.

Speaker 1:

If I could give the world a gift, if I could just download into every human being this skill of listening, to understand without judgment, damn would the world be a better place right now. So, on this love day, this beautiful love day, let's all work to be a better listener. We can all be better at it. I'm working to be better at it. Everybody can be better at it.

Speaker 1:

When we truly listen to someone else to understand them, we truly see them, and that's what we all are looking for is to be seen. So let's go first. I love you all on this love day and that is what I've got for you this week. I will see you next week. I will see you next week. If you like what you're hearing on the podcast, you got to come and join us in the Bloom Room. This is a year-round membership where we take all of these concepts and we apply them to real life in a community where we have each other's backs and we bring out the best in each other. We're all there to make our ideas real, one idea at a time. We'll see you in the bloom room, thank you.