#14 Unveiling China's Equestrian World: Lessons, Challenges, and Triumphs Martine Wijkhuizen from Aqua Dynamics

In this week's podcast, I had the pleasure of interviewing a very special guest, Martine Wijkhuizen, an experienced trainer from the Netherlands. Over the course of seven years working in China, Martine gained extensive experience in educating Chinese coaches and managing horse riding schools in China. 

During our conversation, Martine shared valuable insights on the following topics:

🌱 Overcoming challenges in implementing the Dutch way of stable management, horse management, and lesson planning in China.

🌱 Effective approaches for enhancing the riding and teaching skills of Chinese coaches.

🌱 Tackling the perception that only expensive imported horses need high-level care.

🌱 Successful strategies for fostering equal care and teamwork among the Chinese team, highlighting the benefits of treating all horses equally.

🌱 The process of successfully merging Dutch expertise with Chinese equestrian culture.

🌱 Key principles in building one of China's most successful horse riding schools through dedication, genuine human connection, and collaboration.

For those intrigued by the fast-growing equestrian industry in China, Martine's honest reflections on her struggles, breakthroughs, and insights into the Chinese equestrian world will surely provide you with a lot of ideas about this fascinating industry.

The interesting twist in Martine's story is how the Chinese coaches found their own way to teach and connect with the riders during the Covid period, as the Western coaches couldn't work in China. It's remarkable to see how much the Chinese coaches have grown during this period, tapping into their own wisdom and abilities.

I found Martine's heartfelt honesty about the Chinese equestrian world thought-provoking. The Netherlands has a very strong equestrian industry, and many companies have tried to export high-level horses to China. However, without improving the teaching skills of Chinese instructors and the horse riding skills of Chinese horse riders, it will be difficult to expand this highly potential export market.

💡How can foreign companies and individuals deliver added value to this fast-developing industry? 

💡How can we leverage our strengths to support each other's growth and success? 

Tune in to the podcast to gain valuable perspectives on the thriving equestrian landscape in China and discover opportunities for collaboration and mutual growth.

Instagram Aqua Dynamics: https://www.instagram.com/aqua.dynamics/

Facebook Martine Wijkhuizen: https://www.facebook.com/Martine.mila.nl/?locale=nl_NL 

Email Martine: mangelhof@gmail.com  

You can watch or listen to the podcast on the following platforms: 

🌱YouTube: https://youtu.be/7mEZKnaMNJo 

🌱Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/23MDLHw0ZIZEo05AsNhwjq 

🌱 Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/our-cultures-our-world/id1650591999 

🌱 Google Podcast: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8yMDY5NTYxLnJzcw 

🌱 Buzzsprout Podcast website: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2069561 

More information about Our Cultures & Our World Podcast: https://iibboo.com/podcast/

For interesting tips from my podcast guests about how to do business in China: https://iibboo.com/china-tips/  

Transcript

Mei: 

Welcome to my podcast, Martine. First, please give our listeners a brief introduction about you and what you do.

Martine Wijkhuizen: 

Hello, good morning. My name is Martine. I'm from the Netherlands and My job is instructor and horse trainer. I Worked for many years in in China Also in other countries with China and most of the time. When I was really young, I always dreamed about some horse riding career, like a good rider or a good trainer. And now, this is now my job. First in the Netherlands, I have my own stable, and I do a lot of competitions. And later, when I sell my place, then I moved to some other countries, especially to China. I was working there for now for seven years. and help them with the whole horse equestrian world and everything around that. 

Mei: 

You have worked seven years in China. Could you please share with us about the equestrian world, the scene in China when you were there working there? 

Martine Wijkhuizen: 

The first time when I was in China for the horse industry, it was a little bit of a shock for me because everything was in the beginning. horses enough, staff enough, almost a lot of more staff than in Holland. I don't know why this way they have so many people working for them. But in the beginning everything was difficult, the horse equipment, the stables, the feed for the horses. I also see that the many many peoples that have really no idea about horses but also no idea about animals. 

And I think the horse industry is a really big business because all the kids want to do it it is more like okay I think for a lot of parents it's important that your kids can do some sports and I think horse riding is one of the sports. But I also see it is only for the more richer people because horse riding is in China is really expensive. I understand because They buy the horses in Europe, the food, everything they must import. 

But now after seven years, China has grown so much with the horse industry and now they, yeah, they can do a lot of things by themselves, but still the instructors or managers, most of the big places, they hire some people from Europe. That is in the beginning it was really low level, everything. They buy really high level horses, but the riding was really low level, but also the management was low level, the coaches, everything was low level. But I think after seven years, they grow a lot. 

Mei: 

And I understood from you, you really transferred everything to China by using the Dutch way of managing a horse stable. Could you please share this process with us because it's so interesting.

 Martine Wijkhuizen: 

Yeah, the first thing is, okay, after Shen Zhen, they asked me if I want to come to Shanghai. And it is also important, my boss in Shanghai, he is not Chinese, he is from Taiwan. And I don't know, because he is a really easy boss for the work, because I see in other places if there are... really have a Chinese mind, then some things are a little bit difficult. My boss has also studied in Canada and that was also easier to contact. The first time he is, he come to Holland because for him it was really important to see how we do it here and that was also the first time that I met him and I eat with him and then we talk about it. For him it was important that we do the same thing what we do in Holland but then in China. And he asked me if I want to do that. I said, okay. I try first. Okay, we make some deal for three months. But okay, after three months, yeah, we are not ready there. 

And when I come there, there was this, some stables, 20 horses, maybe 10 horses, they were not okay for the job. They took too wild or too young or sick or I don't know what. There's maybe 10 left. But in the beginning was okay because we had no clients. We really start from zero and then every week more and more and more. And they built a beautiful restaurant. And first month I live in the wedding suite in some hotel. It was also really nice. Every day your bed was with flowers. It was nice. And okay. 

And then, then we built together with the staff. There was four instructors and two people on the office. But the office girls never see a horse before. And then the problems coming because all the parents, they're coming on the office and sometimes they have some questions or they complain about things. This is we also train the office girls. We put them in the middle of the arena and tell them, okay, then they can see what we mean. And that is also in... easier because they can explain to parents what's happened, what goes wrong, why the kids are crying, why the horses are not listening. And really after three years, the girls from the office, they are a little bit instructors. They can understand everything but they also can explain to parents. This was good.

And the second thing was the coaches, they're really horse boys. They come from Mongolia, from the mountains. They are really horse people. I have some people from Holland and I always told them that the coaches there, they're a little bit like horse whisperers. They are so good with horses, but for the rest, about teaching, about training a horse, they don't know. But if you have a difficult horse, they really can work with it. That is really nice. 

But okay, then the problem starts because they... standing in the middle of the arena where they have no idea. Just in the beginning, the clients, the kids, they put the kid on the horse. They told them, hold the saddle, put them on the track and go. Really for 45 minutes to one side in the trot. And then after 45 minutes stop, and the kids go home and next week again. That was the only thing what they do. Okay, and that was also, you know. they only go to the left side with riding and training and teaching because that is from the racing industry. They only see they go to the left side. This is also it cost me years to let them go to the right. And also all the horses have problems to the right side because they train them only to the left. But I was something in their mind. 

But my boss always support me, always. As if the coaches have some problem with me or with the other staff. My boss always told, no, we do the Dutch way. We do not do it the Chinese way. We are not a Chinese company. We are a Dutch company. And after seven years, now they are really Dutch. Everyone is coming there. Also, my friends from Holland, they say, yeah, you are in China, but it is a Dutch company. And it is really working because after seven years, for a lot of companies, I see around me, like some restaurants or other things. always they finished after two, three years, really successful and then everything goes down. But there, because they are already seven years, that is for, I think the horse riding school, that is really good. 

And also after seven years, still the same horses. That is also important, because they not let them work too hard. They have a, we have a big whiteboards on the on the wall. And every day we make a plan about how many hours the horse have a work or who is riding on what horse, not too heavy people, sometimes some beginner, sometimes better people to keep the horses in a good shape. And we need to do that every morning all together with the whole staff. And that is also how you save your horses and your clients, I think. 

And I think we are the only company. riding school who do the planning by ourselves because I see a lot of places then Chinese customers they can make a choice by themselves about I want to have that instructor or that horse but in our company was not possible because if you do that means that some instructors have a lot of clients and the others not, and also some horses have maybe five hours a day and other horses do nothing. 

We try to, yeah, give all the horses the same work. And that is also important that you have 20 good horses because if 10 horses not okay, that means that you have 10 times a better lesson. This means we switch the horses all the time. If we think they are not good enough, then... we buy another one. Is that just a little bit how it works there? And it is working, they earn a lot of money and after seven years, still a lot of clients. This is also important, I think. And everybody is happy there. Also the staff, this is important.

Mei: 

Yeah, so interesting to hear this from you, Martine. And I think also this riding school is one of the most successful riding schools in China. 

I think seven years ago When you just started in Shanghai, I came to visit you together with two customers. Because at that time, you have a few horses imported from the Netherlands. They are very expensive horses working there. And also a few horses from Mongolia. And they are not very expensive horses. So the horses were treated differently. And you were really making effort to educate the coaches there to treat all of these horses equally and to let them work equally. And because the Western horses are really taken really good care of, they got another kind of food, but the Chinese horses, they were treated differently and they also work many more hours. 

So you were in that phase seven years ago to make this mind shift, to make this educate the coaches by telling them how important it is to take good care of the horses. Especially what really impressed me was you told the coaches, those horses are all employees. We really need to treat all of them equally and we need to take good care of them so they can work together with us because we are, yeah, we are a team. So could you please share this challenge with us because I see this happening at many riding schools in China and many people do the same. 

Martine Wijkhuizen: 

Yeah, because in the beginning it was difficult because they're okay. Some horses are important. They are really expensive. But you know, the whole thing in Holland is different from China. There's some horses when they move to China, the training was difficult. The food was difficult. The stables, everything was different for the horses. That means they are not the best horses for China and not for the customers. Too difficult to ride. And... In our places, also difficult because when I come in the beginning, the Dutch horses, maybe they were maybe 10 times more expensive than the local horses. But when I come inside there, I see the stables of the Dutch horses were so clean. They have some bedding to the knees. But when I go to the other horses, they have nothing on the floor. they're sleeping on the stones, really nothing. They had a lot of leg problems about the food. They imported some special foods from America for the Dutch horses, but the local horses, they eat almost nothing. They all look bad. No medicines, no dentists, no nothing. 

Then when I was there, maybe for five, six months, I tried to change that, but nobody listened because also the... the stuff on the stable, the man, his mindset was really like, okay, you are expensive, that means we treat you good, we feed you good, but the rest you're local. But after five months, I have some, we had some program that we have every week, we put all the lesson inside and you can see on the end of the month how many they earned horses. 

And then you saw after five months, the Dutch horses earn almost nothing. They only cost money and they cost us a lot of time because we must train them. We will not do that. They are crazy and all the customers fall on the floor and the local horses, they cost nothing. They do a lot of work and they're really easy to ride. This, okay, then one day I asked my boss, can you come to the stable? Because the problem, I cannot change it. Nobody want to listen to me. They think you are crazy. That because I asked. give the local horses the same food as the horse and they don't want to do it because it is too expensive and blah blah blah. 

And then I asked my boss, okay, can you come? Then we walked to the stable and then because he is not a horse man, he also don't know, and then I told him, okay, you see the stable is so clean and nice, you see the horse and nice blankets on, everything was okay. And then five steps further, you see your local horse, nothing on the floor, he is a little bit... skinny, he's not looking well and long hair and not well trained, nothing. But then I show him the board and then you can see how much work they have and what they earn. And then I told him, I think if you treat your local horses better, they can make more and more money and they earn now the money for the Dutch horses. You can keep your Dutch horse because the local horses make so much money. 

And Then he understands because he said, yeah, you're right. And then all together, all the stuff together, we sit on the table and I remember he told the stable staff, okay, from tomorrow, I want to see that all the horses have the same bedding, everything, all horses, and you give them all the same food. Okay, then we make some board on the stable and I write how much food they need, also the expensive food. and everybody thinks now you are crazy and this is not working but after some months the local horses work more and more hours especially the small ones. Because if you are a small pony in China and you are a Chinese pony then you are really like nothing. But in Shanghai we have a lot of kids that means the small ponies they cost nothing but they earn a lot And that means all the small ponies, they had their own stable, they go to the dentist, blankets, they were in really good shape and they can make more money. 

But still, in the whole process, I think it takes us two years to make them the same, especially for the staff, because sometimes I come in the stable and then I ask him, I see you just feed the horses, but you forgot the local horses. And then he told me, oh yeah, sorry, I forget that I must also feed them things like that. That cost me two years to make them all the same. But yeah, after two years, you can see that the Dutch horses still have not enough work because the lesson are more expensive. The horses are more difficult for maybe if you have another kind of stable. 

Well, this is really a stable with a lot of beginners and kids. and Dutch horses are okay high level horses but not easy for kids. Too big, too strong, too high level and the local horses are more easier to ride, smaller. Those are the horses that make them much of money and still when I always like to go to other If I see, I don't know where the horse come from, but I can see on the stables where they come from, Europe or local, because still in a lot of stables the horses from Europe are yeah looking better, the stables are cleaner, blankets on and the local horses still they're not treated so well.

I see them many many places, but if you have, if you do it like a business, it’s not really smart. If you treat them better then they make more money. I always told all coaches if you train them well and treat them then they are helped and that means that you as coach make more money because if the horses are healthy then you can use them every lesson and you also make more money but in Shanghai they really understand that now and that is easy and their mind just changes they are maybe one of the only stables where it is like this.

Mei: 

So this really very important mind shift and I think you did it in a very smart way. You just let the data prove it and you show the data and show all of the statistics to the stable owner. Yeah, I think that's the best way to convince him also. the employee, the coaches look at the data, then you see how those Chinese horses are doing and they are making a lot of money for us. And we really need to treat them very well. 

And Martine, if you look at the approaches of teaching riders, how did you educate them to become good coaches? What's the education process in the last seven years? And what are the challenges for you to really… bring their coaching level, their horse riding coaching level to the Dutch standards.

Martine Wijkhuizen: 

Yes, in the beginning it was difficult because there was only one coach, his English was good and the rest was... Maybe they can understand me a little bit but English, no, difficult. But all the customers, most of the customers, they were kids and their English was really perfect. I also use a lot of kits to translate or explain some things. And what I do in the beginning was, okay, first, it was also my first time in China. I had no idea how it works. I always, okay, they told me before, I come from the north of Holland and I always say everything what I think. I don't know. And they told me when I go to China, not do that. No. not do what you always do, not say everything, wait a little bit. But I'm not the person for that. I say everything. And my Chinese boss now, you are like a Chinese now. I don't know. I think I'm still the same. I do what I always do. 

But in the beginning, it was difficult to talk to the coaches that they do something wrong or they must change. This in the beginning, if... I see a lesson and the things go wrong a little bit. Then I go inside and I told them that this goes wrong and I help them a little bit, but that is not done. Because for the coach, that is really difficult if you want to change it with the customer inside. That is not possible because then the coaches feel a little bit that they are not good enough. 

You must do it in another way. This may be what I do, I let it go. And after the lesson, I asked why he does something like that. And many, many times they have no answer about it. They don't know why. They only do it because they see this before, because they like to copy everything. They're not thinking for themselves. And with riding lessons, that is really difficult because the horse, he does something for himself, the kids do something for themselves. And if the coaches have no idea to how they change that, then it is difficult. OK, every time when I have a lesson, one of the coaches was inside with me because they must clean the arena with a poop. But what we do most of the time, I'm standing in the middle and they're standing beside me and then they see what I do. And sometimes I also tell them, what do you think? What is also nice they see a lot of films on YouTube we do that we I said okay you must see this film on YouTube and then see what the instructor do with it and that is what we do in and also I teach them. They improve the teaching really well.

In the beginning it was like this the Dutch instructor they have a lot of lessons more lessons than the other coaches And we also, we take all the higher level lesson. And the coaches, they take the most of the time, the beginner lesson. If the beginners are good enough, then we take them from them. And also a little bit sad, because if you are in Chinese coach and you start with a beginner from level zero, and if the kids are in level five or something, then goodbye, you go to the Dutch trainer. That is not nice. Just later, we give them their own lesson and they can keep the... customers, and in the beginning I give all the group classes because in Holland we have a lot of group classes and in China, no, only private lessons. But for kids, the group classes are so much more fun. I try to change that and for some parents, difficult because they only want to have a private lesson for the kids. But after some years... the group classes, they're growing. And also that is more interest. You only need one instructor, seven horses together, everything is easier and you make more money. And that is for the space is better. You can have seven kids together. This was also really working. And then later we give the Chinese coaches their own group classes. Then I can prove the riding and sometimes I help them. 

And what we also do, we make a plan every week. Every week, one of us make a plan, one we practice that week. There's one week I do it and I say, okay, this week we only practice some transitions. Then we all do that and the coaches see my lesson and they do a little bit the same, but the other week they make the choice. Like, okay, this week we practice a small circle and then we all. do that and you take your own level. If you have really good kids, then you do the small circus in the canter. If you have beginners, you do it in the walk. And we do that every week, every month, every year, because all the time was a Dutch coach there. 

And then the COVID is coming, and then we must stay in Holland. And then at that moment, they were alone. They were really alone. In the beginning was a lot of problems. And then we sent every week, the lesson plan to China and we see some videos what they're doing and they send me some problems and then okay now they really can do it by themselves.

Mei: 

If we look at this aspect, Martine, if you look at your experiences, what you have learned in the last seven years, educating these coaches and managing the stable, the riding school. And what kind of advices you can give to the coaches who are interested to go to China and to work there and to really also help the stables and riding schools to grow?

Martine Wijkhuizen: 

I think, okay of course you're working in Asia far away but I think it's important that you still keep your standards, not change too much. Sometimes it's difficult but okay sometimes you want the horses all have the best food but if it is not possible then you try to do your best to make it better. Not change too much because you are in China. But what I really learned is that when I asked for something or change, then in Holland, then okay, maybe they change the same day or you have an idea, they really want to change. But when I was in China, sometimes I want to change and then everybody was so, okay, yeah, we see or maybe or just not possible or other things. And then I really learned, okay. it looked like they are not interested in it, when it changed but after some days or months or years then suddenly it happens. 

I also learned to not, some things not push too much, wait a little bit because that is the same if you teach kids, for all my colleagues from Holland they always said when they teach Chinese kids they look not interested. They are... That is how they... That is the difference between Chinese and kids from Europe. Like Chinese kids are a little bit more closed. Look like if you see them riding there, they're really not enjoying it. And if you work with Chinese people, sometimes it looks like they're not listening to you or they're not enjoying it or they're not happy with you. But that is more how they are. And if you're there long enough... and you understand a little bit, then you can see that really, they're really like it and they really listen, but they are not like us, like, okay, they not express themselves so much. They're a little bit more close. That was one thing. 

And the other thing is, I also learned there that if it is not arranged today, then it comes tomorrow. that is for me also something is okay but maybe but it's maybe also how I am I always want to arrange it now but it is not possible there and yeah I want to say you must not change too much. So it's important that you understand how they are because I travel also in China I'm working with Chinese people but also the girls from the office, we eat together, we live together in one apartment, I learn a lot. I think sometimes you're have in the beginning I was more like, why? Why is not possible? I always push them, push them. And then the office girl told me in the evening when we eat, no, you cannot do that because this does. And then that is important that you listen to that and then you understand them better. 

Mei: 

If we look at the advice you shared, I can see that building relationships is a very important part of your success in China. how you get along with the coaches, with the office girls. If you look at the approaches of building relationships with the riders and also with the coaches in China, what are the differences from building relationship in the Netherlands and how you can advise people when they go to China, what kind of approaches they can better take to build really good relationships with the people, Chinese people there?

Martine Wijkhuizen: 

For me it was important because if you come for the first time in China, then also the really, really big difficult thing is like you have the boss, you have the manager, you have the other manager more down, down, down, down, down. You have all the staff and then maybe on the lowest places is the woman who clean the floor or clean the stables. And for me, it was from the first time when I come to China. In Holland, we don't have that. And the woman who cleaned the house is for me the same. If you are working on the bank, for me it's the same. And I think it is important that when you're working on a company there and it's not important if it is a riding company or something else, that you can work with all the staff. And if you... treat them all the same. For me it's important. 

In the beginning they don't understand that because when I also eating with the stable people for me was the same and when we have the Chinese New Year we eat all together. It was not like you are lower than us and that was also maybe because the team was so good. Everybody was the same. the boss also eat with us and I think a lot of problems in companies like that is that the lowest people they do not treat them well and that means if you do that then they also the work is a little bit lower level they not do their best they are not a team. I think if you go there then you must not only think okay I'm the head chief. instructor or something, okay, I go inside and I give the lesson and I manage the thing and that is it. 

Now. I think it is important that you Do everything but For all the other Dutch coaches they come there. They always told me and they also work And now sometimes other companies and they also told me that like in shanghai that is one big family always. And that is also the only place that I have also some personal WeChat contact with the coaches. All the other places, never. I don't know why, but this is, I think it's also because we start from the beginning altogether and I also think that this is a little bit because my not Chinese boss, he is not really Chinese. I think that is the difference. 

The first time when you go there, when I go there, and also all my other coach coaches, we all go there because we are interested in the whole country, culture, everything. Okay, and then the coaching, we can do that, of course, but in the first thing, we all go there because that is so nice. first some... email contact and things and if I read the emails I already can see what kind of person is it some the first rule is what is the salary and other people they never talk about the salary they only ask me how is it what we do how is it how are the people how are their kids and that is better because and at the end I told them okay this is your salary but I think that is not important what they want is they want to help China and they want to work there and want to see the country but they not go for the salary and there's all the people who work there for me they're they always like that and not first thing what is the salary they not go for their money they want it is some lifetime experiencing yeah.

Mei: 

Yeah, this is very important. I think if you take that attitude, then you will really enjoy your time in China. You will really learn a lot of things also from the people there and that will really enrich your life. 

And Martine, if we look at this process, you went to China and... and you educated the coaches and the equestrian sector is growing very fast in the last few years and there are a lot of demands for good coaches but there are not many education schools or vocational schools like in Holland which help educate those coaches. and people in China all need Western coaches to educate the local coaches. But this is very difficult process. You have went through and the visa is very difficult and also it's very expensive. They need to take care of everything for the Western coaches. This is really not durable system. If you look at the sector, in China as a whole, the equestrian sport, what would be a good way to help coaches grow there and to give good lessons and to adapt a good learning system there?

Martine Wijkhuizen: 

But I think now after so many years, last year I was in Shenzhen and The level of the teaching from the Chinese coaches is grow so much. I see so many companies They really can do it by themselves in Shanghai The coaches are so good now. It is not needed Maybe I say the wrong thing, but it is not for some companies. It's really not needed that we are there anymore. No, the level is good enough and in Shenzhen there are really high level coaches, no problem. The coaches, the riding is also much more high level than before. That is not the problem anymore. 

I think the problem is the clients because some clients, but I also think maybe after 10 years there's also change for a lot of clients is like this. If you don't have a coach from Europe. then your lesson is a low level. If you are on a party and you told my kid have a lesson from a coach from Holland that is really more better than you're riding in a Mercedes or I don't know what kind of car. That is more the thinking. That is still why they asked for instructors from Europe. It is not because they are so much more better with teaching it's more like the face of the place the riding school then they can say okay we have some chief instructor from Europe and they think but they think then the business is better and maybe seven years before that was of course better but now a change like they import a lot of horses because everybody wants to tell them friends I am  riding on a horse from Europe. 

The prices from the lesson on the Dutch horses are much higher than on a local horse. But if you have a kid, six years old, the riding is zero, then why is it needed that you put your kid on a high level Dutch horse, it's three times more expensive. It is maybe better and easier for the kids to learn ride on a local horse and it is much cheaper. But they don't want to do that because if some other parents see that, that the kids sit on a local horse, that is not done. And that is still the biggest thing there. 

And I think it's changed because I see some clients in Shanghai, they only want to ride, have a lesson with a Dutch coach. And on the moment we cannot come anymore because of the COVID. Of course they all changed to the Chinese coaches. Now there is a coach from Europe back, but her lessons are so... Not much lessons for her because all the kids want to stay by their own Chinese coach because they are close so much, they have fun, they like it. That's why they change. The kids are okay. Maybe the parents want to change sometimes a little bit because... Of course nicer if you have your photo with your kid with the instructor from Europe. I don't know what. But it is the same story with the local horses and the horses from Europe. That is more some mindset. But really maybe this is not a really clever story, but for a lot of companies, they're not need us anymore. 

Mei: 

I'm so happy that from inside out you shared this part. And because you also confirm that the levels of the coaches and instructors, they have grown so much in the last 10 years, because when I went to China seven years ago and very much involved in this area, the coaches really, they were struggling a lot to give lessons just like you said, but I'm so happy to hear that Yeah, this situation really changed. 

And to wrap up this podcast Martine, can you give some general tips for the people who want to go to China, discover the culture to work there or to do business there.

Martine Wijkhuizen: 

Yeah you must take time because everything goes a little bit slower than here in Holland and you want to do the management, take your time, not too fast, because if you are pushing too much, then they are all upset and then you're already, I think it is not possible.

I think it's also important that you have a good relationship with the rest of the team. For me, they're all the same, always, and if you treat them all the same... then now that it's easier to work with them and then they help you with everything because the language is also difficult some places but my relationship with the cleaners is the same as with my boss. 

If you treat your boss like a king, yeah, if you really obey to everything, I think that is also not working. But in China, it's really like if you are the boss, we do everything. And the boss, his ideas are not always the best. Sometimes he is not like some god. And if you also. do it in a nice way you also can tell the highest boss that maybe changed a little bit and that is working because if you say nothing they never change and that is also not working. Because if they hire someone from Europe they do that because they want to change a little bit like the if they not do that then they can also hire someone from China then there's not needed to hire us. But sometimes it is difficult to tell them that in a little bit nice way. Not make them angry, but you can tell them sometimes what you think.  

Mei: 

yeah, it's really nice Martine, really nice tips and thank you so much for sharing your experiences and your so many nice stories working in China and connect with Chinese people and teach the people and coaches there to improve their skills. Thank you so much. How can people connect with you, Martine, if they are interested in what you do? 

Martine Wijkhuizen:

Okay, now I'm on Facebook, on my name, yeah, there's nothing on my own name. And Instagram, my company name is Aqua Dynamics, which is a little difficult to write.

Mei:

I will put your Facebook link and also your Instagram link in the podcast show notes and YouTube show notes so people can get in touch with you. if they are interested in your work. Martine, thank you so much for this conversation. So fascinating. I really enjoyed it. Thank you.

Martine Wijkhuizen:

Okay, thank you