TECH TAKES
TECH TAKES
The Quiet Achiever: Leading Without the Spotlight
In this special episode of Tech Takes, guest host David Terlizzi, Director of Member Engagement, Services, and Government Relations at OACETT, explores the often-overlooked but deeply impactful concept of quiet achievers. Challenging the idea that great leaders must always be loud, bold, or extroverted.
Joined by Linda Raynier, author of The Quiet Achiever, and Dr. Tatjana Busik, an organizational and clinical psychologist, the conversation uncovers how introverted, reflective leaders bring unique strengths to teams and organizations. Together, they discuss emotional intelligence, resilience, and the power of thoughtful decision-making, reframing quiet leadership as a strategic, highly effective style.
Discover how quiet achievers can overcome self-doubt, leverage their observational skills, and lead with confidence. Proving that influence doesn’t require volume, only intention.
Have a topic you’d like to discuss or comments about the episode? Reach us at techtakes@oacett.org.
Tech Takes - Episode 18
Tatijana Busic: 00:09.735 - 02:06.860
Hello, and welcome to Tech Takes, the podcast where we usually talk about innovation, impact, and big ideas, but today we're shifting the spotlight in a slightly different direction, albeit I think it'll apply to our members quite well, because this episode is all about the power of quiet leadership. I'm your guest host, David Trulizzi, and if you pitch your leadership as loud voices, bold gestures, and commanding the room, today's conversation might just challenge that assumption. You know, every organization is full of different leadership styles. You've got the visionaries, strategists, motivators, the decision makers, and the steady hands who keep everything moving forward. You probably know this in your workplace and you see it every day. Some lead from the front, others lead through data, and then there are those who lead without fanfare. No spotlight, no megaphone, yet somehow things just work. You might be that person listening today. You know the type, the problem solver everyone trusts, a person who influence is felt more than heard, a leader who doesn't need to announce their impact because the results do it for them. Doesn't matter the discipline you're in, what level of authority you're in, you know, those people. That's the kind of leadership we're unpacking today. To help do that, I'm joined by two guests who have dedicated their work to understanding, supporting, and elevating quiet achievers. First, Linda Rainier, author of The Quiet Achiever, an Amazon bestseller in Canada, the US and Singapore. Linda's a keynote speaker, leadership and communication coach, and founder of the Quiet to Confident Leadership Program. I've worked with her in the past and it's been nothing but a pure pleasure. A former CPA turned recruiter, she spent over a decade helping professionals build confidence, communicate their value, and lead authentically, especially those who prefer to make an impact without the spotlight. My commitment today is she's a CPA and recruiter and I have to weave a joke in somehow about that.
Linda Raynier : 02:06.960 - 02:08.861
Former CPA. Former CPA.
David Terlizzi: 02:08.961 - 03:18.190
Former CPA. Thank you, Linda. We're also joined by Dr. Tatyana Busik, a licensed organizational and clinical psychologist and founder of the Busik Psychology and Consulting Smart. With nearly two decades of experience, her work focuses on leadership, emotional intelligence. We've heard that term many, many times over the past decade and longer. Resilience and wellbeing, drawn on her research and practice, she helps individuals and organizations build value driven cultures and create meaningful, lasting change. Linda, Tatiana, welcome to the show and exploring what it really means to lead quietly, but powerfully and why some of the most effective leaders are the ones you almost miss until you realize everything around them is thriving. So let's have some fun today. And yeah, so welcome both of you. So I'm going to drive our editor crazy cause I have her questions and I have my own questions. So she's probably grinning or crying right now. So we'll see how this goes, but thank you right again. And let's get into it. So Linda, um, quiet leadership, how would you actually, so our listeners out there driving or listening or sitting back, having dinner, how would you define a quiet leader?
Linda Raynier : 03:19.574 - 05:03.456
Yes, so to define quiet leader, I think it helps to start off with defining the group of people who I know best, which are the quiet achievers first. So quiet achievers are, is a quiet achiever is someone who identifies with being introverted, as I am. I also consider myself a quiet achiever. We keep to ourselves. We're independent. We're highly observant. We are deep thinkers. We tend to notice details that others miss. And at the same time, We are also high achievers in the sense that we are determined, extremely goal oriented, driven to advance and grow ourselves and our careers. And so many quiet achievers, the ones that I support, the people that I work with, they've gotten to a certain point in their careers where they've hit a certain level of success and they're now asking, what's next? Now, when I talk about quiet leaders, quiet leaders, I would say a quiet leader is someone who has all of those qualities that I just described. But the key difference with them is that they've been able to work through many of the insecurities, the anxieties, the self-doubt, the blocks that a lot of the quiet achievers that I've come to know still struggle with or have as challenges. And so I would say that a quiet leader is where you've transitioned and gone beyond your inner blocks, your insecurities, your self-doubt to now where you're able to influence, guide, lead, advise others in your own unique, quiet way without forcing, without being overly dominant, without being overly assertive. You're still able to influence and persuade and inspire others. And quiet achievers are on that path to eventually becoming quiet leaders.
David Terlizzi: 05:03.977 - 05:06.378
Very interesting. And Tatyana, is there anything you'd want to add to that?
Tatijana Busic: 05:06.724 - 06:27.889
I really appreciate that distinction between quiet achiever and quiet leader. It makes a lot of sense in terms of the clients that I work with and the leaders who I serve in organizations. I think there's a lot of different leadership styles. Many, many, many. Quiet is one of them. We tend to think of, you know, from democratic to autocratic, transactional to transformational and so much in between. Quiet leadership is often associated with introversion and a personality orientation, a personality difference between introvert, extrovert. And that's absolutely true. Um, and you know, a reframe that I have been playing with over the last five, 10 years is it being not less of a personality orientation and more of a decision and thinking, making style. where a quiet achiever or leader begins with, when there's something on the table, I need to stop, go for a walk, think about this, then I'm going to come back. And the thinking begins in the mind, where the extroverted or loud, I mean that respectfully to the loud achievers and leaders out there, they might begin the impulses to begin with action. Oh my goodness, I need to reach out to my friend to discuss this right away. They verbally process via some kind of action route. and then lead to thinking. So one begins with action, one might begin with taking a minute to digest and think.
Linda Raynier : 06:28.390 - 06:43.395
Love that. Yes, I think that totally aligns because with quiet achievers it's all about we're deep thinkers, we need to take some time to reflect, highly reflective individuals, before we are willing to say something about a certain topic or to make a decision. Yes.
David Terlizzi: 06:44.416 - 07:13.649
That's so interesting. And this is where I go off script again. So I apologize, Michelle. Um, but I'm curious in the past, you've heard about, about, you know, the war room work being like war. So it's usually those who are really, you know, loud, as you'd mentioned. Um, they tend to so-called win. What do you think we're losing when the only leadership style in Western society seems to be loud and sort of overbearing? What do you think we're losing in terms of say at the office space or wherever, where it's always that one that seems to go to the top, if you know what I mean? I'll, I'll have any of you chime in at this point.
Tatijana Busic: 07:15.181 - 08:43.222
I mean, I've got a lot of thoughts that come to mind with respect to that. Again, I don't think it's about good or bad. All different styles of personality and ways of thinking and behaving in the world have a place. We may have developed a predominant bias in favor of loud being equated to dominance, strength, control, intelligence, et cetera, et cetera. But when we overemphasize one and we overly prize one over the other, we're missing a tremendous amount of data at the decision-making table. And in today's day and age, there's a lot of information. True. And so, uh, I, the first thing that comes to mind is if you overprioritize, uh, who is taking up airtime versus who is thinking through and synthesizing all of the different information points. And you're the CEO of this organization. How is your boardroom or your team making decisions? How are we really innovating? How diverse? is the information that we're using to cultivate solutions, because we want solutions and we want robust, sustainable ones. So in a nutshell, we're missing a lot of very relevant, key information that I think organizations will be paying a price for.
David Terlizzi: 08:43.632 - 08:47.856
And that's what I suspected. That's what I suspect would be the answer. Anything to add, Linda?
Linda Raynier : 08:48.096 - 09:53.466
Yeah. Well, I mean, I love how Tatiana put that, um, from, you know, sort of an overview because for me, it's really through my experience of working with quiet achievers. They simply don't feel as though they belong at the table. I mean, even though they worked hard to get that job title, they're sitting in the board room meeting with the other individuals that they work alongside on their teams, but they feel as though because they don't fit that mold of that loud, dominant, you know, assertive personality who is seen as leadership material, they feel less than. And therefore, even though they have so much information and so many great ideas and input that they could provide, they hold back. They hold back because of the fact that there isn't, it feels as though there isn't space for them at the table to be able to even share because those louder voices are taking over and, you know, that and then they miss their opportunity and they don't know how to chime in and because of their personality, they're not going to want to interrupt and overstep. So I can see, I mean, that's how it plays out on a day to day, at least with the clients that I work with.
David Terlizzi: 09:53.866 - 09:59.891
So I think you might have answered my next question, which was you woke up one day and thought you'd write a book. What inspired you to write this book?
Linda Raynier : 10:00.785 - 12:42.760
Yeah so I mean we can go back all the way to the beginning of history but I think just to sum it up clearly I mean for me the last few years I've really shifted my work and my messaging in terms of the work that I wanted to do so I've For most of the last 10 years, I've been known as Linda Rayner, the career strategist, the person that can help you land your next job offer. And I built a large YouTube following and helped thousands of people all over the world through my courses and programs. And during that time, I became really attuned to a certain group of people that I connected with well, that I resonated with well. And these people were very similar to me. They were who I call the quiet achievers. They were extremely goal-oriented, determined, They want to do well in their careers, but they were lacking the confidence piece. And the thing with me is I have struggled with confidence my entire life. I've had to overcome those inner insecurities, the anxieties that I've, and that was when I was in the corporate world as well. I was very similar to them, not knowing how to show up and talk about myself and how to talk to partners and directors and all of those things. To fast forward, I was starting to wanting to understand my audience a little bit more. So I want to get to know that group a little bit more. So I started interviewing them. This has been three, four years in the making, I would say, where I got to really understand that. How are the quiet achievers doing now? I helped them land jobs 10 years ago. How are they feeling now? And many of them came to me telling me. that they feel stuck, they're unsure of what's next for them, they've hit a certain level of success, they're not sure if they really want to move up or they do but they don't know how to get there and that was how the book The Quiet Achiever was sort of born. Initially I thought I'm going to help you get promoted in your job and as I wrote that book or the first few chapters of that particular book I realized this is not what I want to talk about only because I I came to the realization that there was so much more that comes into play when it comes to, you know, not just advancing your careers but really getting to that next level within your life. And it has to do with understanding yourself and going inward and understanding your blocks and overcoming your fears. the journey that I've been through and the clients that I've worked with, I wanted to share that in this book. So that's a really long way to tell you why I wrote this book and where it came from. It was really to speak to that particular one particular person who actually I've come to learn there are many quiet achievers all over the world that can resonate with this. And I think that's why the book did well when I first promoted it in the last few months.
David Terlizzi: 12:44.020 - 13:17.577
I hope that answers your question. No, that was perfect. Thank you. And I want to mention, and Tatiana for you seeing it from a clinical and organizational psychologist perspective. So there's a thought out there that there's really, whether it's quiet leadership or not, and you look at our members, everybody, let's be honest, everybody wants to climb a ladder, whether you're a technician, technologist or whatever your background. And there's a theory that there's three buckets. We'll talk about that theory that some people just cannot be leaders. Some can be taught and some are natural, just have an innate natural ability. What would be your thoughts on that theory? I love posing these sorts of questions.
Tatijana Busic: 13:18.757 - 13:25.826
She's reflecting. It comes naturally. I have some questions around that.
David Terlizzi: 13:25.846 - 13:26.507
That's fair.
Tatijana Busic: 13:26.867 - 14:17.948
Because we all have our nature, whatever that might be. We're all born with certain capabilities. One being curiosity. As Homo sapiens, as our species and how we're designed, we're born with the ability to cultivate empathy, to cultivate all kinds of higher-order, complex ways of being. Our environment helps some of those develop, and sometimes the environment hinders. So I don't know if it's so much of a, some are natural at it, they're just good at it, and some aren't. It's how we come to learn how to own and work with ourselves as we are. And then making a decision, maybe I don't want to be a leader.
David Terlizzi: 14:18.422 - 14:18.782
Fair enough.
Tatijana Busic: 14:19.223 - 14:29.450
Like there's a lot of people who like, you know, maybe they shouldn't be, maybe they don't want to be. They just don't want to. It's like perfectly fine not to want to climb a corporate ladder, but people are even embarrassed to say that. Yeah.
David Terlizzi: 14:29.470 - 14:35.855
Because you're supposed to want to climb the corporate ladder. Who cannot be happy with just where you are. Yeah. Correct. So true.
Tatijana Busic: 14:36.926 - 14:39.649
So those are some of the thoughts that come to mind.
David Terlizzi: 14:39.669 - 14:43.793
Linda, do you have anything to add to that or what do you think?
Linda Raynier : 14:43.893 - 16:06.421
Well, I mean, I think, yeah, like it's nature versus nurture. It's what we're talking about. I mean, I obviously, and I'm speaking from experience again, from myself and for the clients that I work with. Naturally, we are more inclined to want to keep to ourselves. We don't necessarily want to take up space. We don't necessarily want to rock the boat. Not because we're afraid, but because we just are more comfortable not having to always interact or expend energy in social settings and work settings. But in terms of being that leader, There are some things that I think even though we're introverts as quiet achievers we already we have the ability to lead if that makes sense. We do have that ability because we have the ability to understand others. I mean I think I'm speaking for all human beings is If we're willing to turn inward enough, we have the ability to understand others, to be able to tune in and know what we need to say, or how we need to guide a certain conversation to get people on board. And I do believe quiet achievers have that skill. It's just that they feel blocked from being able to express that, or they don't really know how, simply because of the fears and anxieties that they're holding on to. And that, I think, could be more of a nurture aspect that has led them to feel that way.
David Terlizzi: 16:06.923 - 16:31.970
I think that makes a lot of sense. What would you, and you can both chime in, say to, let's say we have a member who's 26, she's in environmental science and, and, you know, she's quiet. And I, we, we tend to think strength is how you make it. How can you still be a strong leader and say, she's just an introvert and she's quiet. Can she still be a strong leader? You know what I'm trying to say? Can she still be an influential leader, even though she's quiet? Is that a possibility? I'll let you both chime in.
Tatijana Busic: 16:33.109 - 16:55.319
I think there isn't one definition for what strength means. And just like many other titles that we use and attributes and traits that we have to kind of define people, there are various definitions that are often on a continuum. So what makes a boxer strong is different than what makes, I don't know, a nurse strong.
David Terlizzi: 16:55.339 - 16:56.760
Oh, I like that. That's good.
Tatijana Busic: 16:57.200 - 17:39.785
It's different. So I would encourage people to, again, be self-aware, take the time to think about what you have learned over the course of your education, your upbringing, your history, and where you are now and how you have come to define strength. Is there something that needs to be unlearned here? We're social creatures. All we do is like learn from like the time we're born, the moment we learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn. And the great thing about that is you can unlearn. What do you need to unlearn about how you have come to define strength? Does it work for you? Does it not? Does it work for your goals in life? Does it not? Redefine it.
David Terlizzi: 17:40.426 - 17:52.090
Love it. Yeah. So Linda and Tatiana, I want to mention that there are misconceptions. We both agree about people, about being quiet leaders or introverts in leadership roles. What are those misconceptions you think that are out there?
Linda Raynier : 17:53.680 - 19:13.296
In terms of misconceptions, I think the first one is that what you kind of what you just said that being quiet means that you're not a strong leader. And I think from what I know to be true and what I truly genuinely this is what I believe from the clients that I work with is that you can absolutely be a quiet introverted individual, but be extremely influential, be inspiring to others and be able to empower others. to do what they need to do to get people on board with your ideas or with the ideas of the team for the greater good. This could be me just thinking theoretically but I really do feel that that's the case if you are able to own who you are as an individual versus trying to be that definition of whatever the world says a strong leader is and trying to show up as that version but not feeling as though that's really who you are and then you're playing this role. If you're able to understand, OK, these are my boundaries when it comes to my time, my energy, how I interact and how I make decisions. And, you know, it's knowing that people, making sure that people know that and are aware of that, but not in a confrontational way and just understanding, having that understanding. You, I believe, you can be a strong leader. So I think that's one of the biggest misconceptions.
David Terlizzi: 19:13.655 - 19:22.761
I feel like authenticity is coming in again. Seems that's an important piece of it. So Tatiana, what would you say to that? Would you, some misconceptions that we have and generally in the, in the workforce in Western countries.
Tatijana Busic: 19:23.775 - 19:58.219
specific to Western countries and Western organizations, definitely that quiet isn't as smart as loud, quiet isn't as strong as loud, quiet is not as assertive as loud, and several more which are all really gross as in like very gigantic fallacies. they are simply incorrect. And that may have evolved at a time in our history, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, et cetera, et cetera. And that needs to be corrected now.
David Terlizzi: 19:58.956 - 20:06.200
I think not to get into politics, but we may be seeing that happening in real time now in North America, but, but I digress. That's a different podcast folks.
Tatijana Busic: 20:06.240 - 20:06.560
Yes.
David Terlizzi: 20:08.281 - 20:22.710
But, and again, a question for both of you is so, so for our members out there, like things they can use, what qualities or habits could help them lead effectively without being the loudest in the room? Like what can they take away our members? What kind of habits can they take away to sort of lead quietly and be successful?
Linda Raynier : 20:24.412 - 21:24.126
A tip that I share with my clients in our program is telling them that because of our nature to be highly observant and highly analytical and we naturally are able to notice things that perhaps maybe the loud achievers or the loud leaders perhaps potentially may miss. is to lean in on that as one of your superpowers. And that means when you're in a meeting, when you're having a conversation, notice what's being said. Yes, active listening is important, but part of active listening is also hearing what's not being said. What's missing? Everyone's all excited about this one idea and this whole aspect of where this idea can go and certain aspects, but there are probably other aspects that they're not considering and you can then lead in a way where you're bringing up these other aspects for them to consider so that they can make a well-rounded decision on whatever they need to do next.
David Terlizzi: 21:24.662 - 21:36.052
I think that aligns well with our members as they're very technical. So that's, uh, it's obviously looks sitting back, analyzing, wondering what's missing. So that aligns well, if you're listening out there. So congratulations. Um, but Tim, how about you? Do you have anything to add to that?
Tatijana Busic: 21:37.219 - 23:17.571
Yes, there's a telling, to break it into two, for simplification reasons, there's telling and then there's questioning. And we know from the research that a telling style of communication, which might be more associated with loud or extrovert, let me tell you, I have the solutions, has less long-term and deeper impact on the audience, the team. a reflective and questioning style. So if I'm an introvert and I'm a quiet leader and I sit back, or just a quiet member of my team, I sit back and pay attention, I listen, I synthesize what I'm hearing, and I reflect that back as a question, you are building trust and an engagement on a far deeper level than a telling orientation. And there's all kinds of research behind this. In terms of what happens to the human brain in your audience, when you ask thoughtful, deliberate, slow questions, it also tells them that you care. It shows interest. That's one. The second thing that comes to mind, so I can't remember, 70-80% of communication is conveyed non-verbally. So don't super stress out over all the words and having something to say. Roll your shoulders back. Lift your chin up. Make eye contact. Smile. If someone says something that makes you feel like smiling, smile. These are all extremely powerful non-verbal communication tools that we can use, especially if we're feeling a little nervous about speaking up in a really loud room. Interesting.
Linda Raynier : 23:17.891 - 23:22.353
Oh my gosh. I love what Tatiana just, I mean, I love it. Sorry. I didn't mean to.
David Terlizzi: 23:22.653 - 23:25.694
No, this is, this is, this is what it's all about. Continue, please.
Linda Raynier : 23:25.854 - 25:05.950
Well, I mean, you know, just everything, but like, especially that first piece where you said that there's research that backs it up, that if you're asking thoughtful questions, if you're reflecting, if you're synthesizing what you've just heard. and then sharing what your recommendation or idea is based off of that. Well, the reason why I'm so excited is because that's literally what I teach. Like I have a framework that I call OARR, and it's observation, assessment. So what are you observing? What is your assessment or analysis of what you've just observed? What is your recommendation based on that? And what would that result in in terms of big picture goal, team goal, or organizational goal? And that's what you would share in the meeting. So that's practically how they could break it down in terms of when they're hearing something and they're hearing what's not being said and they want to share an idea and they want to chime in, they would use that framework. But I love that, Tatiana, you shared that there's research to back up that your audience will actually listen and engage so much more if you frame it in that sort of way versus just And this is the mistake I think a lot of quiet achievers make is they chime in with their recommendation right off the bat without giving any context to what they were thinking or what they've observed. And they realize, they notice that people don't really take them all that seriously or that their ideas aren't fully heard or people are confused and they're not really buying into what they're saying. And so, and I tell them, just take it a few steps back. Then give your idea and tell them what you think. It's going to be more effective that way. But I didn't have the research to back that up. I just felt that that was the way and because of my experience from working with these clients.
David Terlizzi: 25:07.423 - 25:58.950
I'm really liking this. I'm going to do some, I'm mixing up a question. You're not going to like this, but it's interesting. So there tends to be two. Tell me if this is true, you know, better than me, but there, there, there are leaders that you listen to cause you're afraid. I mean, there might be really loud. You're afraid of repercussions. And there's some leaders you'll listen to cause you want to. I'm curious as to where the quiet leaders would have a bigger edge because maybe quiet leaders, not saying a loud leader wouldn't have these traits, but integrity, a bit of empathy and consistency. Would quiet leaders sort of have the edge on that? Cause you know what I'm trying to say? Cause sometimes you listen to your boss cause maybe they're afraid. Whereas sometimes you listen to your boss because you want to. And I'm curious as when you're a quiet leader, like how does integrity, empathy, and consistency sort of influence the way a quiet leader deals with things as opposed to being brash and strong and maybe putting fear into the group. Does that make sense? Anyone can chime in on this. I just thought I'd throw it out there.
Tatijana Busic: 25:59.983 - 26:17.930
It does. And the benefit to the organization in people following you because they want to is huge. Cause now you don't need to micromanage your people to make sure they're following. You know that they're following you. So if people want to listen to a quiet leader versus listening, because I'm afraid of you.
David Terlizzi: 26:17.950 - 26:18.550
Right.
Tatijana Busic: 26:18.730 - 27:00.401
If I'm listening and doing my job because I'm afraid of you, you're going to have to manage me and pay attention to what I'm doing. Exactly. But if I trust and know that you're following me because you trust me, because we have cultivated this relationship, that is very different. I can actually give you more autonomy and let go of the reins in terms of managing. And then as the leader of this organization, I can step into a higher level kind of in terms of leadership because I trust my people. So there's a tremendous power in that kind of quiet, subtle, slow, deliberate way of leading. That's what comes to mind. Was that the question, David?
David Terlizzi: 27:00.421 - 27:06.184
That was the question. And it was very well answered, actually. So as I knew you would. Did you want to add anything?
Linda Raynier : 27:06.204 - 27:08.705
I mean, Tatiana answered it way better than I could.
David Terlizzi: 27:08.825 - 27:11.866
Oh, stop it. You're both complimenting each other. I love it.
Linda Raynier : 27:11.886 - 27:15.348
I don't know. I feel like whatever Tatiana said.
David Terlizzi: 27:15.388 - 27:17.029
Fair enough. I do want to.
Linda Raynier : 27:17.662 - 27:21.884
I'm a little bit distracted because I asked Peter to take videos.
David Terlizzi: 27:22.304 - 27:33.969
Which is fine, but I do want to ask, so if, so how do quiet achievers get impact? How do they actually achieve and create impact? If they're behind the scenes, how do they achieve impact? That makes sense.
Linda Raynier : 27:34.744 - 28:46.893
Yes, that's a great question. So in terms of impact, I actually want to, I, okay, so when I tell my clients, if you want to make an impact, it's not just about hiding behind your desk, hiding behind your computer, doing the work and then never speaking of it. So many of my clients, they'll do things where, let's say they'll resolve major issues with a certain project. They'll stay mum that they've resolved it. They'll stay mum that they made many wins, had many wins or many accomplishments. And the truth is, if it's not heard or spoken about or shared or expressed, it won't really be seen as impactful to the eyes of others. And this is the downside, I mean, in a way, but it's the truth, really, of being in the corporate world is that you do have to talk about what you've been up to. You have to share. You have to express what your progress has been. You have to talk about the little mini stories along the way that have led you to where you are. And so the truth is, is like, you're going to have impact because you're working hard, you're doing a good job every single day. But that impact then, to truly make that impactful, you have to talk about it. You have to share, you have to express.
Tatijana Busic: 28:46.913 - 29:32.357
Can I add something to this? Yes, please. Absolutely, you have to share and express, and you don't have to do it in front of a large group. If it's more comfortable, do it one-on-one. If it's more comfortable, some people excel at verbal presentations, other excel at written communication. Write it. Um, there are probably several different avenues to share your impact and choose an avenue that is more aligned with your style versus announcing to a big, this is who, how wonderful I am, which is overwhelming and not really a quiet person's thing. So don't do it that way. Find a different route to communicate your impact and your role and the value that you're bringing.
David Terlizzi: 29:33.477 - 29:49.797
May I suggest what you're saying is maybe we went one-on-one with your, with your boss to have this discussion as opposed to, so, um, not off topic, but I, I'm going to sort of veer off. So some of this has to do with ego. Would you not, would you say there's a correlation between loud and quiet and ego? Just throwing it out there.
Linda Raynier : 29:50.999 - 29:54.544
I mean, I think ego plays a role whether you're loud or you're quiet.
David Terlizzi: 29:54.724 - 29:55.084
Fair enough.
Linda Raynier : 29:55.365 - 30:47.673
Because I think quiet, if you're quiet and you're holding back, it's because you're afraid of, I mean, in a sense, your ego is at play. You're afraid of expressing yourself by being and being judged or criticized. So there's still ego in that even though we're thinking egotistical as in let me show off, let me talk loudly, let me talk about how good I am as the loud version. But I think from a quiet version ego still comes into play. So really I think It really is about managing your ego in the sense that, why am I so afraid? For one person, it's that they're afraid to express themselves. For another, it's that they're not afraid, but they need to feel this need to prove themselves. And I haven't really talked from that perspective as to what I think why loud achievers are the way they are, because we've spoken more about the quiet. But I think ego comes into play with both.
David Terlizzi: 30:48.634 - 30:49.994
Yes. Do you agree, Tatiana?
Tatijana Busic: 30:50.723 - 31:35.484
I would. Ego is something that we all have. And it's about awareness of how your ego is playing into. Are you overvaluing? Are you putting your ego before the outcome? And what is my actual job here? Like, what is this organization paying me to do? And is my ego coming in the way of me doing that because I need to? Then that's something to pay attention to. Again, I agree with you, Linda, whether you're a loud or quiet achiever. It's about becoming aware, almost stepping outside and seeing when your ego is coming in. And then, ah, here's my ego. I'm going to press pause right now, take a second, and I'm going to come back to the table so I can get back to what I'm actually here to do.
David Terlizzi: 31:36.527 - 32:42.172
Did we just come up with a possible app? I think we need an ego app. I think we need to create an ego app. But it's great, but I'm curious because I just on a serious note, look, if you're quiet, my assumption is you're humble. I'm not sure if that's true, but the point is in a Western construct, you do have to be a little showboaty to sort of say, look what I've done and thump your chest. And is that sort of the issue sometimes with quiet leadership? Maybe it's not innate with them or they have to learn how to maybe come out a bit just to sort of thump your chest and say, if you don't tell people Is it how great you are? How can you, if you do want to climb the ladder, how do you climb? You don't tell that story. So it sounds like we're giving permission for quiet leaders to be quiet, but to tell your story, maybe different methodologies, like one-on-one as opposed to being bragging all the time. Does that make sense? Find your own language. Fine. Look at that. Find your own language. I'm going to use that. I'm going to use that. I like that a lot. Um, a little funnier. So we talk about quiet leaders. Can you, each of you give an example, maybe even your personal lives or politics or anyone in the world that you would say is a quiet leader? Do you have any examples? Like, look at that person, they're quiet and they're strong. Any examples?
Linda Raynier : 32:43.950 - 36:00.318
Well, I have someone in mind, but I don't know if anyone listening to this podcast would know who she is. Her name is Sunny Lenarduzzi. And I mean, she is someone when I first started my YouTube channel 10 years ago, I needed help. You know, I didn't know how to start a YouTube channel. I didn't know anything about that. And I learned from her. She's actually she's a business online business coach, business strategist. But over the last 10 years, we've grown our businesses individually. And I've seen how Obviously from a financial perspective she's done really well but also the values that she's embodied and her perspective on how she views her time, her energy, her boundaries, how she sees the world has really shaped me because I would say she in a way is a quiet achiever and she is someone who knows where she wants to put her energy towards. As quiet achievers, we, as introverts, we don't have an endless amount of energy. We don't gain our energy from interacting with others. We actually, our energy depletes from interacting with others. Yeah, we have, we start with a certain level and then it just depletes throughout the day. And I think she's really learned to work with that. And, you know, I can't necessarily give like concrete examples. It's just more, She's someone that I'm still working with and I keep in touch with and it's just the approach that she has. Making sure that if you're going to do something you do it intentionally and you're going to say no more than you say yes. And you have to know what you value most because ultimately that's what's going to bring you peace on a day-to-day basis. Versus my old version of myself as a quiet achiever was always about I need to acquire more, I need to obtain more, I need to do more, otherwise I am unworthy. And that is where a lot of the quiet achievers that I work with are feeling, how they're feeling is that they're stuck in this place of, well, I've hit all my goals, I've ticked all the boxes on my checklist, but why do I still feel unfulfilled? Why do I still feel my career or my life isn't as meaningful as I thought it would be? And ultimately, it's because they haven't yet necessarily turned inward enough to ask themselves those deeper questions as to how do they truly want to live? How do they truly want to show up? Who are they really beneath their fears, beneath their need for validation, approval, recognition from others? I mean, that's part of the reason why quiet achievers struggle to, I mean, from a very basic level, speak up in meetings is because they're looking for that approval first or that recognition first or that permission first before they can chime in. Otherwise, they're afraid that they're, you know, in dangerous territory and that they're going to be criticized and judged and all of those things. And so, you know, as soon as that self-awareness happens, it then shifts your perspective on yourself. It then shifts your communication. It then shifts how you, the decisions that you make. And going back to Sunny Lenarduzzi, I mean, she's just observing her and seeing how she's run her life and her career. It has been extremely inspiring for me, and it's really helped me to to get to this place, I would say.
David Terlizzi: 36:00.878 - 36:03.920
Interesting. Perfect. Tatiana, yourself, what would you say?
Tatijana Busic: 36:04.960 - 36:06.021
Can I make one comment?
David Terlizzi: 36:06.161 - 36:06.741
Sure, of course.
Tatijana Busic: 36:06.761 - 37:00.278
You mentioned energy. One is depleted. So an extrovert might be energized. With a lot of people, an introvert might be depleted. So we tend to talk a lot about managing time, managing, you know, what skill set, capability. Less time on understanding how your energy systems work. So if you're a quiet leader, it's not, oh, I'm so bad with people. It's how do I structure my day and my time in ways that re-energizes me in the ways that I need to. It's energy management. Energy management is a very real, very biologically based thing. Time and other forms of management is stuff that we've made up. One is biology, and it's a hard biology. So I love the idea of energy management and for quiet leaders to really become aware of that. So it's not a negative or a positive. It just is how you refuel.
David Terlizzi: 37:01.243 - 37:12.766
So from my understanding is for, for extroverts, they're, they're energized by crowds. And so, so if I understand what's energizing the quiet leaders, what would give them any sort of energy? Is there anything that would really, or you're saying.
Linda Raynier : 37:12.786 - 38:03.974
I mean, if I'm speaking from experience again, I mean, just being able to be in your own space without necessarily people asking you a ton of questions, prodding you, constant conversation. having your own time and space to be able to think, to recharge. So that's why a lot of quiet achievers, they love being in individual contributor roles. But unfortunately, that's not necessarily what's going to get them to the level that they want. And this is the thing is that not all, I mean, quiet achievers, I would say most of them want to move up in their careers. That's the hard part is that they're high achievers. They're driven. They do want that next level. Um, but they're afraid of the energy piece of that. It's going to take up all their time. I mean, well, really more their energy to have to manage others, to deal with others, to, uh, do things beyond just doing what they're really good at, which is their work.
David Terlizzi: 38:04.714 - 38:11.217
Brilliantly said. Tatiana, you're in the hot seat. Can you pick somebody that you think is a quiet leader, public sphere, private, anyone?
Tatijana Busic: 38:11.593 - 39:13.213
Yeah, the, you know, someone who comes to mind is the current CEO of Microsoft, Satya Nadella. He came into his leadership role and his mandate was to transform this culture into a culture of learning, a culture in which empathy and understanding and collaboration, true collaboration is about, you know, diversity of perspectives. And this has been he's been on a mission to cultivate that, you know, and very publicly open about that. And when you watch him speak, he's not really like super well allowed. He's very thoughtful, reflective and even slow paced in his tone. And, you know, I would recommend that people even like Google and look at videos of of powerful, quiet leaders, watch them, observe them. There are so many ways and there's nothing weak about the communication or the presence of these individuals. So he's someone who comes to my mind right now.
David Terlizzi: 39:13.800 - 40:20.618
Seems like two very good examples. I'm not sure if this relates. I always bring this up about quiet leaders and example extroverts as you think of Apple. So, and it's a weird construct. If you mentioned Steve Jobs, I think we all know Steve Jobs. You mentioned Steve Wozniak and no one really knows who he is and Steve Wozniak really not to take away from Steve Jobs, brilliant man, marketing genius, blah, blah, blah. Steve Wozniak was the brains behind everything, quiet, introspective, and yet history, who do we think about? So, and there's a concerning part about Western Construct is the one really behind the scenes, no one knows about the show. I'm not sure it's showboater, but the brilliant marketers history will remember that person. But I got another question for you both is that, so I'll start with you Tetiana. So, so members, you know, they're quiet. And, you know, someone says that person, he should be a leader. And the director says, it's kind of quiet and he doesn't really smart, does a great job. What would be a rebuttal for someone to say, yeah, they're quiet, but these are sort of the qualities they bring to the table. What would you respond to that to say, to convince someone to say, you should give them a shot, even though they're quiet, but these are the qualities they bring. What would you say?
Tatijana Busic: 40:22.296 - 41:36.601
So as an introvert myself, I don't, I'm not in the business of convincing anyone of anything. Cause that makes my heart race. It makes me feel like I'm in a competition and now I have to like play for airtime and I'm like competing. And if we're competing and I'm trying to convince, then my adrenaline kicks in. Then I start like speeding up inside and that goes against the grain of how I function and am. So I would begin with what do you mean by quiet? You need to find that for me. How does that look? What is the impact of that quiet? Let's build more of an understanding of what this person is saying when they say that one sentence of they're too quiet to be a leader. Let's unpack that. I'd really like to understand. What is it that you think you're not seeing? How do you measure a person's value contribution? What metrics are we using? Maybe we need to expand those metrics. What if what comes out of that conversation is that this quiet person has not gotten the recognition because they've been very proactive in this quiet way and mitigated risk in crises? Should that not be acknowledged as a core?
David Terlizzi: 41:36.981 - 42:05.389
That's fantastic. What I'm thinking is a member who's maybe technically proficient. Yes. And maybe the director says, yeah, but He never puts his hands up. He doesn't really, but he's solving all the problems. Yeah. So curiosity, what, you know, what is a tool that someone can use to convince them? Well, to say, well, give them a shot. Me, I'm not sure what the next step would be in that case. The person has the technical chops. Maybe they just need to, I'm not sure what, or Linda, what would be the answer to say, give them a shot?
Linda Raynier : 42:05.674 - 43:12.350
Well, the thing is, is that speaking from the quiet achievers perspective, that technical person, you would want to also ask them if they feel they're ready to take on that next level position versus convincing that director or C-suite person to hire them into that next level role because They could potentially fail, quote unquote, if they were moved up and weren't prepped ahead of time as to, well, you're really good technically, but there are a few things that we can coach you on, guide you on. And, you know, quiet achievers, I believe I find the ones that I work with are very coachable. And if you can guide and teach them and show them, okay, there are certain little things that you need to adjust when it comes to how you're showing up in meetings or how you're expressing your ideas so that people actually are aware of what you're up to, so that people know the value that you bring to the table. And you can do that in a way where you can get people on the same page as you, buy into your ideas, all of those things. I think there's a bit of a buffer that needs to happen before they can get there, like a little bit of that in-between stage. Then I would say there's probably not going to be any convincing that's going to be needed.
David Terlizzi: 43:12.870 - 44:17.667
Fair enough. I've got just a couple more questions, but I do want to tell a story about this. If it just hit me now as a personal note is this sort of applies is not long away at a conference and in this conference with an award ceremony. So imagine hundreds of people, hundreds and hundreds in this massive screen playing the award winners. Um, to our horror, the video wasn't working. So what do you do when you get that circle turning on a screen? I know we have a staff person who's extremely quiet and sort of, um, introspective and, and, um, I don't know where she just got up and she went to the whole technical crew of the hotel, took over, took charge and solve the problem. And it was inspiring to see that it wasn't the loudest. It was this, this quiet achiever who sort of sprung up and shocked us all that she actually solved the problem, sat down, took no credit and just went along and did her thing. And I think it was a beautiful story. I'm trying to link this to how there's an example of a quiet achiever that you would never think it would have been her, but it was her. It's, it's surprising what they bring to the table sometimes I would say. So I just wanted to sprinkle that little.
Linda Raynier : 44:17.867 - 44:24.831
It had to be that environment where everyone was watching her get up from the table in this big room. And that was the recognition that she received.
David Terlizzi: 44:24.971 - 44:39.160
It was pretty cool. And I do want to mention, so if that's the case, how can organizations better recognize and reward these quiet achievers? We reward the loud ones, but what can we do? You know, if they're not there to self-promote, what can we do, Linda, to sort of, you know, recognize them?
Linda Raynier : 44:39.875 - 46:09.059
Well, I think first is awareness. The leaders, the people that are currently in those decision maker seats, they need to be aware that quiet achievers exist on their teams and be able to identify who the quiet achievers are. And from that awareness, then they can be able to, I mean, in a sense, cater the way that they interact, communicate, coach, guide. those individuals so that they can be ready to move up to that next level eventually. So awareness is the biggest thing and then from there you can then, you know, with that event that we had not too long ago with those HR professionals, I mean I heard so many wonderful ideas from all these individuals as to the different plans and different processes they could start implementing as to how they can recognize quiet achievers, how they can start giving more consistent feedback that aligns with what quiet achievers would be looking for, which they are consistently looking for that recognition, that approval, but they're not necessarily looking for you to clap in front of the entire group about how good they are. It's more so pulling them aside, sharing with them your insights, giving them maybe a few tips and guidance and advice as to what they can do to improve as they continue along. And you'll see the growth. And so there are different ways that I'm sure from an HR perspective that can be implemented, but the biggest I would say is awareness and willingness to work with the quiet achievers and having that goal and intention that you're going to want to move them into as part of the leadership team.
David Terlizzi: 46:09.339 - 46:11.561
Nice. And Tatjana, do you have anything to add to that?
Tatijana Busic: 46:12.352 - 47:06.932
Well, a good question for organizations to ask is what are we rewarding? Because what we're rewarding is what's going to get repeated. And what gets repeated is how we build culture over time. So if I'm leading an organization, where do I want this organization to go in 1, 3, 5, 10 years? Do I, if I want to position myself as, you know, the trailblazer in addressing, you know, the technical landscape of today, which is a complicated one, then it's a really important exercise to stop and ask, what are we rewarding here? And because that which is rewarded is repeated over time. So some metrics need to be, I think, reviewed because, you know, sometimes we get a little too comfortable just doing the same old, same old, same old. And if you've been rewarding the same thing and it's been now several, you know, years, decades, well, why is that not changing?
David Terlizzi: 47:08.293 - 47:16.899
Well, touching on that. So nature and nurture environments, how can we create an environment at the workplace to do that? Like how, what, what tools going to use to create that environment?
Tatijana Busic: 47:18.274 - 48:22.118
Well, something that distinguishes us from other, many things distinguish us from other mammals, but a big one is we are really big copycats. We start copying from like the time that we're born. You smell a baby, the baby starts smelling back at you. And that does not stop across the lifetime. So the rule of modeling, And so if I'm the lead and I want to diversify the voices at the table to include everyone's different, unique, intelligent contribution, I need to model that. So pay attention to, you know, who's not speaking up. You can take a course, read a book on communication and how to, you know, interrupt. Everyone's afraid to interrupt. Oh my goodness, there's ways of interrupting that are so polite and connecting. Learn some of these tricks and tools so that you can model what that looks like and then your team will start to follow.
David Terlizzi: 48:23.174 - 48:45.534
Interesting. Yeah, I liked that. I liked that a lot. Um, okay. So Linda, I'll go back to you now on something is so, I mean, what advice would you give to someone who leads quietly, but feels, and I actually, I get this on a personal level with some of our members, overshadowed by more vocal peers. They lost it. They lost that opportunity because they were overshadowed. What's some real world takeaway advice you would give them?
Linda Raynier : 48:45.754 - 50:34.889
Okay. So if we're talking about let's in a meeting, cause I think that's the biggest setting where a quiet achievers have a lot of anxiety. So I hear it all the time where I had an idea. I wanted to share that idea, but then, you know, the person next to me, they jimed in well before I was able to, and they said exactly what I wanted to say. So I lost the chance. 100%. And this actually happened just last week with one of my clients. And I shared with her this, I tried to get her to reframe how she saw that, where she said that because someone else said what she wanted to say, that she, it meant that she had no ability to speak up anymore. And the truth is, is that no, if someone else says something that you're thinking about, and you're on the same wavelength, that's a good sign that you're paying attention, that you know what's going on in the room, And what it also means is that most likely you have a slightly different perspective that that person did not yet share. So again, listening to what they said, but also what did they not say, that then you can piggyback off of that idea and say, you know, I really like what John said over there. Actually, I was thinking the exact same thing. And to add to that, I also want to mention blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that, you know, the acknowledgement of someone else, the reflection of what they've said, and then being able to add on to that, I think that all lines up with what we had talked about earlier, where having that reflective way of sharing your ideas and opinions is actually what's going to get people even more convinced to what you have to say and what you're proposing. So that really is, you know, you think you're being overshadowed, but actually you can just piggyback or leverage what has already been said and share it from a slightly different angle, giving your insight for that idea.
David Terlizzi: 50:35.510 - 50:37.812
Perfect. Perfect. Anything to add, Tetiana?
Tatijana Busic: 50:39.975 - 51:40.760
Um, from a, before responding, if you've got the perception that you've been overshadowed, take a second and regulate your own internal kind of feeling. Because if I feel like I'm being kind of, you know, shut up in the room or ignored in the room, my threat system in my brain has is likely firing. And so just take a second to remind yourself that, you know, there is no threat here. This is a meeting. People are sharing. This happens all the time. To calm your inner nervous system arousal and then come out and say, I agree with you. I love what you've just said. And this is what I think. So you're using the power of slow associated with quiet leadership. It's a slower mental process in the brain, literally. You're not slow. You're using different capabilities. Slow it down. Slow yourself down and then respond. when your heart isn't beating super fast.
David Terlizzi: 51:41.581 - 52:11.569
I get it. I get it. Um, you know what Tatiana I'll add to that and Linda feel to, to chime in. I'm, I'm going all, I'm, I'm knowing everyone cause I'm going popping through questions to questions here, which I love doing. But, um, Tatiana what's the one thing you'd like to people in our members listening or whoever's listening actually, uh, to understand about the power of choir leadership. We talk about power and it's about strength and being loud, but what And Linda, you chime in as well. What is there, people love the term power. Is there a power that comes with quiet, quiet achievement? And what do you think that is?
Tatijana Busic: 52:13.439 - 53:17.859
I think there is. We, generally speaking, live in a world, our Western world here, where a lot of glamour, we really glamorize a lot of stuff. And so power is like, you know, this and it's that and it's this and we got to go get it and like do these hacks and you got like this. And it's not that. Real power is built over time. and often through micro actions where the impact accumulates. And that might resonate with a quiet leader because they're not like, jump in, bam, they like to think. So the power in your quiet really is aligned with how we build sustainable, real power over time, not reactive power, but grounded power. And so there's a reframe there. Don't underestimate the value of the accumulation of micro contributions over time. That's stability. It's consistency. It's integrity. It's so many good things.
David Terlizzi: 53:19.440 - 53:21.321
Fantastic. Would you like to add anything?
Linda Raynier : 53:21.542 - 54:37.874
I mean, I totally agree. And also to say that, you know, the power comes from within in the sense that are you able to understand how you're feeling in any given moment. Are you able to, are you willing to turn inwards and observe yourself? That is then where you're then able to do all the things where you're regulating yourself, you're regulating your nervous system, you're able to then calm your voice and then your voice then opens up and you're able to share that idea. So the power comes from how familiar are you with your inner world? Because if you have not yet addressed that anxiety, that fear, those fear-based beliefs, those blocks that you're carrying, the perceptions that you have of yourself and others, if you're not aware of them and you're not really bringing them to the surface to let them be released as much as you can, you are always going to live in that world where everything is a threat and then the power doesn't come through, you know, your voice isn't able to be expressed because you're always going to be fearful of, uh, of, of speaking up and sharing and being who you really are, uh, because you'll always feel vulnerable. So it really is about being willing to turn inward, be vulnerable with yourself.
David Terlizzi: 54:38.554 - 54:41.356
Interesting. Would you like to add something Tatiana or Zane?
Tatijana Busic: 54:41.991 - 54:43.913
Fear is also so exhausting.
David Terlizzi: 54:44.533 - 54:45.394
Well, we all feel it.
Tatijana Busic: 54:45.514 - 54:47.796
I mean, it's just like, oh man.
David Terlizzi: 54:47.816 - 54:54.802
But isn't it innate in us? We all have fear. Absolutely. Is it, we try to have methodologies to control it, correct?
Tatijana Busic: 54:55.683 - 55:09.838
I think to face it and to work with it. So emotion, the only way to change emotion is through the emotion. Yeah. And so to not be fearful, you have to face the fear and work through it. And then the fear transforms to courage, transforms to this.
David Terlizzi: 55:09.898 - 55:22.582
So there's this theory of resistance, keep, keep, you know, keep, keep going headfirst into it. And eventually you, you, is that is, so that's a true thing. You actually, actually, you know, face the resistance and learn how to deal with it. And eventually it gives you courage, as you say, and be stronger.
Tatijana Busic: 55:22.682 - 55:53.605
And transform into whatever it is that you're striving to transform toward. Um, but fear is extremely exhausting because it's rooted in survival processes that are like really old and powerful, the most powerful. And so for someone, you know, whether you're introverted or extroverted, quiet or loud, you know, that's your, that's, that's your role in making yourself tired and depleting your own resources. And that's your responsibility. It's not your fault that you've come to be afraid this way, but it is your responsibility to face it.
Linda Raynier : 55:54.542 - 58:09.828
Well, I mean, in the book The Quiet Achiever, I mean, I'm not a psychologist by any means, but I do have a little framework that has worked for me. And I call it FLU, F-L-U. And I called it that because it reminds me of when you have a fever, what happens? You know, your body heats up, your body's trying to get rid of the virus, your body's excreting whatever's inside of you. And I really believe that when it comes to fear-based beliefs, which Create fear within your system. The only way out of that or the only way beyond that is by going through that, just as Tatiana just shared. And that means allowing for yourself to feel that emotion. So that's the first is F. Feel the emotion fully. Allow your body to have those heart palpitations, to sweat, to get all the nervous anxiety, whatever it is. feel it in your body, then from there you would label, okay, what's this feeling? Label it helps to kind of pinpoint what it is. Then the third one is the biggest one is uncover the underlying belief. So really get to the root of what am I telling myself? What am I choosing to believe that's causing this emotional reaction? And when we can get to that level of that belief, then We then, you know, we almost disarm it in a way, because now we've brought it to the surface. It's like a crying baby. It just wants to be soothed. So we've now addressed that piece and we can now choose to either continue to hold on to that belief or we can let it go and replace it with something that is more accurate for where we're at. And we can understand that if I am afraid to speak up because I'm afraid that I'm going to be judged, well, where did that belief come from? It came from Growing up, if I spoke out of line with my parents, I was yelled at or I was criticized or I was judged. I was told to go to your room or whatever it was. And that then created this programming that speaking up does not feel safe. So then if we can identify that. uproot it and ask ourselves, does that still hold true? Is that something that I want to continue to believe? If it's not, then it does, I find for myself and for the clients I work with, it starts to dissipate and you no longer have that holding you hostage.
David Terlizzi: 58:10.922 - 58:47.664
Interesting. So if I understand this, my 16 year old will be a great leader because he doesn't listen to a bloody thing I say. He's always speaking back. So I think I'm on a good run there. Um, I, listen, I think we'll, we'll, um, we'll sort of end it with one last little question here to sort of challenge you both is, so as people are absorbing this content today, what, I'll pose this question, what's a piece of wisdom they can take away with that? Maybe an honest wisdom about, you know, listeners take away about leading with character, calm confidence, if you are a quiet leader. What would you say is the one piece of advice you would give them if they do want to succeed? What's that one piece of advice you would give that quiet leader?
Linda Raynier : 58:49.491 - 59:53.226
to make it as simple as possible for me, it would be be willing to turn inward, meaning be willing to investigate yourself. Ask yourself those questions. Why am I feeling what I'm feeling? Where is this actually coming from? Because a lot of quiet achievers, they don't know why they feel the way they feel. And I think it just starts with asking that question, where is this coming from? And then naturally you're going to then because you would have identified potentially where the source of this is from, you're going to potentially want to resolve that. And then from there you can find the solutions to what is your biggest pain point now that you want to resolve. If it is just the communication piece, then perhaps find someone to support you in improving your communications. If it's something else, if it's a project that you're working on and you have no idea what's going on and that's creating the anxiety, then find the right people that can support you in understanding that better. But it really is, where's this coming from? Why am I feeling this way? Rather than just trying to bury it under the rug and continuing to have that anxiety on a daily basis.
David Terlizzi: 59:53.627 - 59:55.509
Perfect. Tatiana, last word.
Tatijana Busic: 59:56.374 - 01:00:44.959
When I think about what competence and leadership is, it's not about theatrics. And people at the end of the day aren't going to say I'm going to, you know, when they need something, am I going to go to the loudest person in the room? No, they're going to go to the most reliable person in the room has demonstrated steadiness, reliability. consistency of character. And these are all aspects of introversion or quiet leadership that I suspect your listeners and maybe highly technical, analytical, intellectually driven people will probably resonate with. So own that. because the world actually really needs that and we're in a state of transformation which could be a very good window in time for new leadership models to predominate.
David Terlizzi: 01:00:45.464 - 01:01:44.251
Wow. I'm really glad we chose you to be on this podcast. Thank you both for sharing your insights, experiences, and wisdom today. This conversation is a powerful reminder that leadership doesn't have to be loud to be effective and that influence when grounded in self-awareness, character, and purpose often speaks for itself. To our listeners, whether you lead from the front, behind the scenes, or somewhere in between, we hope today's discussion encourages you to trust your own style. Be authentic. We talked about being authentic today. value thoughtful leadership, and recognize the quiet achievers around who you are and shaping progress every day. Hey, listen, if you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Tech Takes, share it with a colleague, a mentor, and continue the conversation in your workplace and communities. I'm David Trulizzi, and on behalf of our guests, Linda Rainier and Dr. Tatyana Biusik, thank you for listening. Until next time, lead with intention, lead with integrity, and remember that sometimes the quietest voices make the greatest impact. Bye for now and bye for until next time. Thank you.