Cloud in the Enterprise: Navigating the Options

Cloud computing has become a fundamental requirement for most organizations. However, the tenets of the options available to enterprise customers and the related value of each are still largely misunderstood. As a result, many companies employ inappropriate or ineffective cloud strategies.

In episode four we are delighted to welcome Peter Moser, Chief Technologist, IoT and AI Strategist at Hewlett Packard Enterprise and Fred Holloway, VP Channel Sales at CyrusOne, to the podcast.

Guided by our Host, Matthew Pullen, EVP & MD Europe at CyrusOne we draw upon the incredible wealth of expertise between two industry veterans. We explore the cloud options available to enterprise customers, how they can effectively evaluate them, and where the data center sits amidst the choices.

We hope you come away from our discussion having learned a great deal from our guests' expertise, and thank you for listening. We’d love to hear your thoughts, so please don’t forget to like, share, comment and subscribe.  

Visit CyrusOne website.

Guests:
Peter Moser, Chief Technologist, IoT and AI Strategist at Hewlett Packard Enterprise
Fred Holloway, VP, Enterprise Sales, CyrusOne

Transcript

Steve Hayward (00:00):

I wanted a path to an income. I wanted a meaningful, vocational, hands-on traineeship that meant I was earning and learning and I ultimately had a guaranteed career.

(00:14):

I didn't want the four or five years of uncertainty around whether I gambled on the right course.

[NEW_PARAGRAPH]So for me, I think that's important. And actually, I think maybe the world is changing, but maybe we are getting to a place where that will also become the priority of the next generation.

Matt Pullen (00:28):

Today we're going to talk about a really important topic. That is the skills gap, as well as the steps the data center industry should be taking to combat it.

(00:38):

In this episode, we'll hear from Steve Hayward, senior director of operations Europe at CyrusOne, and Andrew Stevens, president and CEO of CNet, talking about how attracting diverse talent and fresh perspectives will play an important part in addressing the skill shortage. Now let me tell you the irony of a middle-aged white man talking to another, is not lost on me, but putting that aside, let's kick it off.

(01:06):

Welcome Steve, pleasure to have you.

Steve Hayward (01:08):

Thanks very much Matt. It's a pleasure to be here.

Matt Pullen (01:11):

So let's start with the fact that the data center skill shortage has been documented by industry. How in your opinion did the industry get to this point in the first place?

Steve Hayward (01:22):

I think the first thing to address, and I know you've spoken to Andrew Stevens, and I'm sure the listeners will hear from Andrew on this subject as well, is the general perception that students aren't following a STEM program; that it's become unattractive, that it's not as popular as it used to be, certainly in my generation.

(01:41):

Now I know Andrew will probably add some context to that, but my experience personally over the last two or three years, we began to engage with the likes of the UTC and other college partnerships, is that there is less young talent, there is no denying that there are less people attending those follow-on subjects post secondary school, post A-level, than there were, certainly when I left school in the mid-nineties. And I think that will always have a telling impact on any industry that relies on regenerated talent. It requires youngsters falling in to our workplaces to be able to develop, and with that lack of uptake, we are always going to see shortfalls.

Matt Pullen (02:20):

Interestingly, we've talked about how people from other industries can be repurposed towards data centers because of similarities, for example, engineers working in any critical environment. Talk to us a little bit about your journey, because I think the listeners will find it fascinating how you ended up in the data center world.

Steve Hayward (02:40):

My family upbringing, I was surrounded by tradesman and engineers, so for me, in the schooling environment, when I looked upwards and looked at role models if you will, in my life, they were all engineers and I was always destined to become an engineer, based on the fact that I was just surrounded by and immersed in that environment and it appealed to me.

(03:03):

On the point of the STEM uptake, and again I know Andrew will speak to the listeners about this, I think that's less common now, I think there are a lot less of those traditional male orientated engineering roles, there's certainly a lot less opportunity which we'll pick up later on when we talk about the future.

(03:20):

But I think for me, I was very much part of that generation where I was surrounded by it, it interested me and I followed it. I was very fortunate to get offered an apprenticeship with BA Systems or British Aerospace as they were at the start of my apprenticeship.

(03:37):

And I served my five years split between a facility at Dunsfold in Surrey, which was, in the last years where they filmed Top Gear, for those who aren't aware where Dunsfold is, the aerodrome and the track there was where I served my apprenticeship.

(03:51):

And then I finished my career at Warton Aerodrome in Lancashire, so not only did I get to serve a fully indentured, multi-skilled aeronautical apprenticeship, I also traveled the country, and some would say that going from the south of England to Lancashire is not a big journey, but at 19 years old it certainly felt like a big adventure to me.

(04:10):

The key to my onward success has been that apprenticeship program, a true detailed apprenticeship. The apprenticeship was also important for another reason I looked at further education, Matt, I looked at university, I looked at curriculum, I did a lot of soul searching before I followed the same type of career path as my parents.

(04:30):

But I wanted a path to an income. I wanted a meaningful vocational hands-on traineeship that meant I was earning and learning and I ultimately had a guaranteed career. And I didn't want the four or five years of uncertainty around whether I gambled on the right course.

[NEW_PARAGRAPH]So for me, I think that's important, and actually I think maybe the world is changing but maybe we aren't getting to a place where that will also become the priority of the next generation. Maybe they won't fall into universities, maybe good apprenticeships will actually become a viable option again for them.

Matt Pullen (05:01):

Well I think you're right, with the looming cost of living crisis, this path to faster earnings is going to be important, and yeah, I understand and we can talk quite passionately about UTC Heathrow, which has got the first focused data center curriculum, that there's been an incredible uptick in applications for the course this year.

(05:23):

Not surprising, bearing in mind the outlook for the data center industry, and if you like the security, I'm sure, that some families see from the industry for their children who are on a path to industry.

Steve Hayward (05:39):

Yes, you're absolutely right and it's a strange... I always have a little smile to myself and I'll talk about pathways into the data center industry, but if you look at the UTC that we're partnered with as well, historically it's an aviation heavy establishment. We're set up to support and provide, if you will, a steady stream of young talent into the Heathrow airport and the aircraft services.

[NEW_PARAGRAPH]And again, whilst the corner may be turned slightly in terms of aviation, I know the airports are certainly a lot busier, Matt, whenever we try and travel now, but it was an industry in decline and there wasn't a requirement or an outlet for these very young talented people. And I just think that the synergy is crazy when you look at my journey, because now we're repurposing that UTC into a data center centric establishment for the exact same reason, to keep supporting our industry over the next five to 10 years.

[NEW_PARAGRAPH]And just on the subject Matt, because I don't think I really finished, you asked about the pathway into this sector and I'll probably talk about this a little bit later about transferable skills. But when I look at my background and I had this realization two or three years out of the aviation industry: I was trained and developed in an environment that was heavily process led, and I think you have an appreciation of the aviation industry, you have an interest so you'll be aware of the controls, the checks, the balances.

(06:55):

Everything we did in that industry was checked twice. Everything was designed to be redundant, resilient, failover proof, it was perfectly designed so that those aircraft literally stayed in the air. I was a military aircraft technician as well, so again, the diligence that we had to exercise given the risk that we present to the wider public if we make a mistake was even greater.

(07:17):

But if you transfer that thinking and that mindset into the data center world, and I'm sure we'll probably get into this a bit later, we're also an uptime business, obviously we're not looking at keeping these buildings in the air, but the correlation between keeping the lights on at all times, the power on at all times. And we do that through process, and we do that through repetition and we do that through training and drilling.

(07:37):

So I remember my first assignment, if you will, when I left the aviation industry, and I left purely and simply, Matt, because it was an industry in decline that the British military aviation industry is not a shadow of itself 15 years ago, I'd reached the top of my technical grade, I couldn't see a path onwards, and I stumbled into managed services and then I stumbled into a data center, and when I realized what made a data center tick, I suddenly realized I have the perfect training for this environment.

(08:09):

And I think that's something that we'll probably pick up on later, is getting to the core of what a data center requires from its engineers, and breaking down those barriers.

Matt Pullen (08:18):

So I'm going to move slightly away from what we've been talking about, and talk about diversity and why it's particularly important for the data center industry.

Steve Hayward (08:30):

Yeah, this is a big one, and I'm not going to apologize for also having a huge bias here, as you know I have young teenage daughters, and I want the world to be a place where my daughters feel they have the same and equal opportunity to the work and the jobs that I do.

(08:48):

I think you only have to look at, and again, Matt, please excuse me for this, I know we're friends so I will get away with it... We are not young men, we represent, if you will, the general demographic of the data center industry, which is fairly stale. It's mostly middle-aged white men who dictate and shape the business, and I think that's a symptom of the industry as a whole, and again, we'll come to this later, the fact that we didn't really tell the world what we do, we just grew very quickly and didn't explain ourselves.

(09:18):

But it is so important for us, for our business, for our peers, for the whole industry to attract talent outside of our peer group, because all the time that we don't have enough young ladies joining our engineering teams, we don't get their bias, we don't get their point of view, we don't get their skillset. Every time that we don't maybe bring enough local staff in from the Slough communities, we are missing huge, huge waves of talent because we're just not making ourselves available to them. I think we're not approaching them well enough, we're just not letting them know that we're out here. And it's hugely important for an industry of our nature, we cannot continue to grow with the very limited employment pool that we have currently.

Matt Pullen (10:03):

It's so obvious that's the case, Steve, so obvious, because we can't fulfill the demand from one demographic segment of the population, but do you believe that if we create those opportunities and we manage to secure a pipeline of more diverse employees into the industry, that it will be self-fulfilling?

(10:29):

That other stratas of the population will see the opportunity, see that the industry is embracing, and will effectively then migrate towards our industry?

Steve Hayward (10:41):

So this is interesting, if you'd asked me this six months ago, I'd have been a lot more skeptical, that the messaging was there, we all knew the messaging was important, we'd made some effort to try and kind of break the mold, but I honestly, six months ago would've said, "I think we're going to struggle..."

(11:01):

And mainly through the hard work of some other people in our organization, I won't name them all because people will get bored, but we have pushed so hard. And as you know, Matt, we've recently announced, we've now got our first trainee, so our first apprentice in-house, who is female, is of Cantonese descent, and is a bright young thing.

(11:21):

It's a genuinely talented, engaging and huge opportunity for our business, not just for the industry but for our business if I'm selfish. We've also now got more and more people joining us from the Islamic and the local communities in Slough, we've now got two or three engineers. And again, if you'd asked me six months ago why we weren't attracting them, I'd just think we weren't answer asking the right questions or reaching out to the right agencies.

(11:46):

We were looking in the wrong places... Maybe not the wrong places, we were looking in the old places, which we'll come back to shortly, as well. We followed the same recruitment patterns, we looked in the same talent pools, we just didn't think outside the box, we just kept looking in the same places. So when I look at the movement we've had just in the last six months alone with our growth, and the breakdown of our new recruits, the balance is genuinely pleasing. And I actually believe, Matt, that it will fulfill our targets. I think it will just take care of itself. We'll still need to work hard at it, we can't get complacent. One good six months doesn't change the industry, but the blueprint is there, so we just need to follow through with it.

Matt Pullen (12:28):

Thank you, Steve. That's really good to hear to be honest, it's great. But to what degree, interestingly, do you think that the situation's also been helped by the great resignation, because we've talked about effectively attracting students, people coming out of education, but what we haven't talked about, or be it we've touched on it reference to the aviation industry, is people coming away from other industries into our industry, all fueled by the great resignation. Do you see that as a factor?

Steve Hayward (13:04):

The great resignation is an interesting one because I tried quite hard two or three weeks ago actually, because somebody else asked me a similar question. I think the impact of the great resignation, or call it the big quit, whatever, depending on where you are in the world, obviously people refer to it in different ways.

(13:20):

We weren't a victim of it Matt, to be honest, as you know we didn't see any large chunks of our workforce leave, or suffer... Suffer is probably the wrong word, they did suffer the same as the world did, but our employees, during Covid, you look at the great reservation, I don't have the percentages in front of me, the numbers that were directly attributed to the Covid outbreak, but we didn't see it. Our employees actually became so much more important to us during Covid: The protection that we had in place for them, the sterile environment, the controls, the testing, the bubbles that were created, it was probably one of the safest places to work during the pandemic if I'm honest.

(13:59):

And I think that gave our workforce a slightly different opinion. I do think we will see benefit from it though, because we are now seeing more CVs, and I know that seems like a strange reference but actually the CVS that we're seeing are: petrochemical pharmaceutical, the military... Again, I don't have the numbers and it would be interesting to see if we could find some for this; more military engineering talent has become available as well.

(14:28):

So I think what it's done, people have had a change of thought, a change of thinking around what they want to do for a living, and I do think that we will seize some talent because of it. But I don't think it actually impacted us negatively if I'm honest mate.

Matt Pullen (14:46):

No, it's an interesting one, isn't it? Because you and I spoke a lot during the pandemic, a lot of pressure was placed on the operations workforce who had to show up to work every day to keep those critical environments running. I think you've made some really good points about the fact that the environments that they were going to were really, really safe and generally because of locations of data centers, they weren't using public transport.

(15:13):

But the interesting thing for me is that the pandemic also led to a raising of not just awareness, but of, if you like, the brand of data centers, really did push it towards this notion of being critical national infrastructure, or at least essential national infrastructure. And I'm just wondering if the workforce has taken pride from that, and that as well as everything that you've said created stickiness with the workforce, and attractiveness to new people coming in.

Steve Hayward (15:45):

It does actually, and I was going to follow on and I'm glad that you picked up on it, for an engineer maybe, who is not kind of privy to the strategy, the stuff that we talk about, but they're aware that all of a sudden their friends and family are asking them about what they do and they're genuinely interested. Now I spoke to a lot of my engineers, and some of them had even mentioned that their wife or their partners had said, "So what is it that you do?"

(16:10):

When they started doing the job, they didn't really pay any attention, but then all of a sudden, as you said, Matt, when the whole world was working remotely, people were asking and they were genuinely interested what these guys did. And it was twofold, the world is interested in how important these engineers are, so it gave them the visibility. The technology the systems, the buildings are all fantastic but none of them tick without the people.

(16:31):

And it's the engineers that keep these buildings running, they're the guardians of keeping these things running. But then there was also the extra investment and I think this is quite a long-term blessing for us, something that we've taken very seriously: We were always pretty good investing in our people, we kept them well abreast of what was going on, we communicated with them well.

(16:50):

But they got extra care and attention during the pandemic, and actually if there's ever an example of how investing just time, we're not talking money matters, we're not talking financially, but taking the time that you took, the time that I took, the time that whole senior management team took to talk to these guys and spend time with them on site has a huge impact. And our churn rate over the last two years has never been lower, we just don't lose staff generally unless they're retiring, so I think that speaks for itself really.

Matt Pullen (17:24):

Completely. Okay, so bringing us back then, we talked about everything that the industry is doing, supported by the education system to draw in apprentices through university cooperation to get people focused at a much earlier stage on higher education that will take them quickly into industry with clear direction right at the beginning.

(17:51):

We talked about the great resignation and how other industries can provide base skill sets that are really applicable to data centers. That's all fine, so we get people into our industry, but what does the industry need to do then to address the issue, leadership et cetera?

(18:14):

Because it's all very well having a funnel, but how do we maintain these really, really low levels of attrition? What does the industry do?

Steve Hayward (18:23):

Yes, there's so many elements to keeping these things moving. So again, we talked about the trainee ships, the apprentices, those really, Matt, I know we've spoken about that. I'm trying to break this down into two pools of talent, and they are in the mid to long term. For every 18-year-old that we take on now it's a five to six year investment in their training, obviously they become very, very useful assets from day one but it's five to six years before they can go their own way and they can call themselves engineers.

(18:55):

So then you have this influx of talent from other sectors which we've spoken about, and just on that subject again, the industry needs to be better. We are much better but I think the industry needs to be better at recognizing that good electrical skills are good electrical skills wherever you were trained, and it's as simple as, Matt, we found that the way to unlocking this was simply our questions in the interviews. The industry has a habit, Matt, of bamboozling people with buzzwords and creating this kind of dark art style of describing something very simple.

(19:29):

When you ask an engineer the question, don't bamboozle him with a load of buzzwords, he's never going to have heard of, get to the crux of what you're asking, get to the point because if you can relate it to something he will understand, you'll get the answers that you're looking for. It's that simple. You can give them the product training, you can't teach them the skills if they have them, you've just got to find them.

(19:49):

And I think the key to sustaining that type of environment is to keep spreading the search a little bit wider. I mentioned one or two key sectors, military aviation is obviously the favorite of mine, we're all fantastic, Matt, there's no one finer than BA systems engineer. We've got some excellent ex-military guys, we've got some excellent ex-nuclear industry guys, but now we're looking a little bit further afield.

(20:10):

We're looking at people who perhaps maintain conveyor belts at large factories, because again, it's an uptime centric business, and if you'd ask someone five years ago, where's your next superstar young engineer coming from? You maybe wouldn't have suggested the biscuit factory at the end of the street, but actually I'm telling you now if you go looking there, there's some really good talent. So we've got to keep looking a little bit wider because again we'll very quickly deplete the obvious options, we've got to keep looking.

(20:37):

And then when you get them into the business, this is where it becomes imperative that your business model, your process, you are mature. And this is something that we focused on a lot recently as well as over the last two years. The training doesn't stop three months into the building, it shouldn't stop when they understand the equipment that is there now. It needs to be continual, it's an investment in that asset for the length of their career. And it's not always leading to promotion, this sector, one of the appealing things about this sector for any engineer once you really explain it, is how dynamic it is. Technology today will not be the same technology in three years, so these engineers, as you always say, Matt, we're wired a bit differently, we're always looking to understand something but then to be challenged, and understand it, and to be challenged...

(21:23):

And that's the key to their development is to keep stretching them, to keep exposing them to new skills, to keep testing their boundaries, because if you keep them engaged and stretched, they feel no need to move. There's no other challenge out there, there's enough challenge here, but it takes effort and you have to constantly invest in them.

Matt Pullen (21:44):

Yeah, so you're basically saying, leadership, which I think is really, really important once you've got people into the business and a constant drive to ensure fulfillment. I do think that interestingly, you referenced the fact that you came away from your previous career because you'd hit a ceiling, I don't think there are any ceilings in the data center world because the growth is clearly so extreme, despite economic headwinds, talent is so limited that really anybody coming into the industry should think that actually there's incredible scope for promotion and diversity of their role.

(22:24):

So I think that certainly from my point of view, communicating that on top of everything that you've said is really important. So a really great thing, particularly because you've put all of this through your own lens and your own experience. So staying on that topic of your lens, do you think there are other markets, other countries that are doing a better job when it comes to the skills gap?

Steve Hayward (22:52):

At the risk of not wanting to upset our UK listeners and really please our German listeners, I would always say Matt, and I've said this to you previously, that Germany in general, and again it is a generalization because obviously, not at every point it can be compared, but Germany is slightly ahead of the curve than the UK.

[NEW_PARAGRAPH]But I actually think that the fundamental driver behind that is not the system, it's not the government, it's not the STEM system. I think it's the perception of an engineer in Germany is so much higher than an engineer in the UK. And this probably goes back to the stuff that I opened with about my generation... An engineering career was a perfectly well respected engineer.

(23:37):

Engineers in Germany are still hugely respected, it's still regarded as a career, so what we didn't have in Germany perhaps, or we don't have to the same extent as the headwind in actually convincing people to be engineers. That driver is already there, so you take away, if you will, the first 10% of the challenge, and actually it's a significant 10%, if you have people already in the system wanting to be engineers, you're a lot further along.

(24:04):

So I'd say Germany's a little bit better, but the UK is catching up quite fast, from what I've seen, but Germany's still ever so slightly ahead.

Matt Pullen (24:13):

Yeah, and because your portfolio spans other territories in Europe, and then we should also talk about the fact that you worked for a US parented company. So perspective on other markets in Europe and then turning to the US?

Steve Hayward (24:28):

So if we look at, France and obviously Ireland are important ones for us, I don't think it's any surprise that the Irish challenge is the same as the UK one, and again, I don't wish to be controversial there when I say that, but we are so intrinsically linked in the way that we do business that the thinking is often the same, that the challenges are often the same.

(24:49):

So I think the Irish market will need the same kind of impetus that the UK does. France is an interesting one, because France always seems to be slightly localized. The Paris market is actually fairly bustling, there's a reasonable amount of talent in Paris if you can attract it, but again it does seem to be very, very centralized, whereas in the UK we have a much wider span of talent. France, maybe not as advanced as Germany, and probably ever so slightly in front of the UK, but there's not a lot in it.

(25:23):

The US is an interesting one as well because I was recently speaking to my [inaudible 00:25:27] account partner in the US, and he had a similar story to mine, but I would say that the US, and again, we could probably get some US comment on this, they seem to be probably 18 months in front of us, on the realization that you've got to push things from the bottom up. So there's been quite a few initiatives in the US recently, and we are now seeing some benefit from it, certainly, I know we've got some graduates in program out there at the moment that are very, very talented. So I think the US is just in front, if I'm honest.

Matt Pullen (25:57):

Interesting. Now that's not because you work for a US headquartered company, is it, Steve?

Steve Hayward (26:06):

No, it is not. I would like nothing more Matt, than to say that the UK is miles ahead of the US, but you have to look at the scale of the challenge. The European market is growing at such a fierce rate now, but the US' challenges were probably two years ago, so I think it's no surprise that they're a little bit in front to be fair.

Matt Pullen (26:22):

Indeed, the industry always recognizes that the US has been generally three years ahead of every market iteration from a data center point of view, so I get that totally.

Steve Hayward (26:34):

Just to balance that out, mate, just to make sure that the UK listeners know that I'm terribly patriotic and that the UK are the best.

Matt Pullen (26:42):

Indeed, but we can't see your cowboy boots on this podcast. Neither can the listeners, so it's fine.

Steve Hayward (26:47):

Not wearing them.

Matt Pullen (26:49):

So final question; what happens if we don't sort this out?

Steve Hayward (26:55):

I don't want to sound too dramatic, Matt, because I also don't want a reputation for being too negative... It will sound dramatic, but if we don't get on top of this, we cannot sustainably fulfill our growth, the industry can't fulfill its growth. So the impact to us as businesses is not just the commercial and the investment returns, it's a wider problem for the general public, because we are growing based on demand and that demand is fueled by everybody, not just people within this sector, we exist to support the world, the digitalization.

(27:30):

So it is important, you will slow down growth, and again sounds dramatic but you can't move at pace without the facilities to support the pace of growth. It's a massive genuine challenge mate, if we don't get on top of this as an industry, we will impact global development. And I know that sounds like such a big statement but it will have a huge impact everywhere.

Matt Pullen (27:53):

It's a fantastic perspective, and one which Andrew underpinned, in the sense that he calls our industry the home of the internet, which it is, and bearing in mind that the internet and digital economy is driving global growth and will do in spite of economic headwinds for the next few years, and well beyond probably, I think your comments are very, very valid.

(28:24):

So, Steve Hayward, head of operations for CyrusOne in Europe, thank you so much for your insights, and thanks for being so straightforward in talking to us about your background and everything else, and indeed your lovely family.

(28:38):

So I appreciate you being here, I'm sure our listeners would've really appreciated your very personal perspective on this issue. So Steve, thank you very much.

Steve Hayward (28:49):

Thanks very much Matt, it's a pleasure to be here, and as you know, I'll take any opportunity to talk about this, it's such an important subject to me.

Andrew Stevens (29:10):

Sometimes we are putting people into a job where they can never change because they're paid too much, and is that really good for the diversity, for the movement, for people's wellbeing?

(29:20):

So there's that moral element that worries me sometimes, because I have people talking to me, saying, "I don't like my job, I want to move, but I can't, it's just too much money."

(29:31):

And so we've got to look at it and think where are we going to be in five years time? I've been talking for a long while and it's been over 10 years, where I've said where this skills crisis is going.

Matt Pullen (29:41):

Welcome Andrew, nice to see you.

Andrew Stevens (29:43):

Thank you, Matt. Thank you for inviting me and nice to see you, and I look forward to our conversation.

Matt Pullen (29:48):

Absolutely, thank you. So it's clear that resolving the skill shortage in the data center industry is central to optimizing success in innovation. What's currently being done to address this issue?

Andrew Stevens (30:03):

I think there are lots of things that are now being done at a local level, at an internal company level. I think that the skills issue and the skills agenda has come to the top of people's mindset now, people are starting to feel that it's real, that it's actually happening and that we are in a position where we need to address it.

(30:28):

So people are starting to look at internal programs, they're starting to look at apprenticeships, they're starting to look at collaboration between organizations because it's very difficult to address what is an industry-wide issue with company only activities. So we've got to start to do that and I think for an industry that's been very competitive in everything that it does, we are starting to see some good collaboration which is starting to bear fruits, and that's a really positive thing to start to see.

Matt Pullen (31:06):

Interesting, because you refer to apprenticeships. So what do companies within the industry need to consider when it comes to training and apprenticeship programs?

Andrew Stevens (31:16):

Well I think that companies have really got to get a good understanding of what the education system provides for them in their location, so obviously in the UK here, apprenticeships are one of the pathways that people leaving school can take. And one of the difficulties is that employers don't necessarily understand those pathways, they don't understand what a modern apprenticeship looks like; how do you operate it, what does it cover, what are the requirements?

(31:48):

And it can be a really daunting approach when you look at funding rules, you look at off the job training, you've got to build a relationship with a provider, you've got to find the apprenticeship and then you've got to look after the apprentice, because you have got to look after them, because they're new to the workplace, so there is an opportunity here.

(32:08):

One of the challenges in our industry, is we like to look at everything, as long as it's got a label DC, if it's got a label of DC, we're interested in it.

(32:17):

But actually, there are lots of apprenticeships that are already available, that are in mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, finance, marketing, sales. And so there are lots of ways that we can look at existing apprenticeships that are out there that just need a tweak, or just need some input for us to make them really applicable for our industry. And of course many of the organizations in the data center space are paying the levy here in the UK, they're paying a 0.5% of their annual salary bill into a pot and that's for you to reuse. It's not a tax, it's there to be reused, but most organizations aren't using it because it looks like it's a challenge.

Matt Pullen (32:59):

I think that's a note to organizations. Just something that's really topical, which is the looming cost of living crisis. How do you feel that the country is going to react?

(33:15):

Do you anticipate that some of the vision that you've had around apprentices, apprenticeships, and sponsoring things like university, technical colleges et cetera, that we'll see a significant uptick in interest, as the general household view will be to say, "Don't go to university to study something that doesn't necessarily get you straight into industry and get you earning quickly, but go and do an apprenticeship or look at a university technical college to get you into industry faster."

(33:49):

I don't know what your view is on that?

Andrew Stevens (33:51):

No. My view is that people are looking at the "Earn while you learn" approach. I think there's been an awful lot of conversations recently, the student interest rate went up on the debt, that was actually capped lower than it should have been, so there would've been some additional pain for students that have already got into debt.

(34:10):

But the thing to look at about apprenticeships, is that unfortunately due to the way that we've looked at them in the UK over the last number of years, we don't necessarily see them as positively as we should, they tend to be viewed as a second tier, not quite as good as other things. But in actual fact, when you start to talk to people within data center organizations, it's amazing how many of those did apprenticeships and are really proud of having done that. So I think if you can remind people that apprenticeships are a good thing...

(34:42):

Don't forget there are degree apprenticeships, so you've still got the graduate programs coming through and we need to remember that apprenticeships are now available to any person at any age, at any level of education. So when you start to look at it like that, and then I think if we could change the name and call them career-ships, everyone would be a little bit more interested.

(35:01):

Because quite often, a 30-year-old is not wanting to say to his peers, oh I'm on an apprenticeship now. Well that could be a fully valued degree apprenticeship but it doesn't really work... So I think yes, people are going to push that, and I think the challenge for us as an industry is that there are other sectors that are better at absorbing apprentices and apprenticeships into their system, because they've been doing it for longer, but it isn't difficult.

(35:26):

I think organizations have to look at whether or not they have a chief education officer, because I don't think that having just HR and L&D dealing with this, which I believe is a strategic view moving forward because we've got to understand the landscape, that would be a positive.

(35:45):

But to answer your question directly, we are seeing an uptake the in earn while you learn approach, and that's the apprenticeship model, both in the degree and in different levels.

Matt Pullen (35:56):

And I understood earlier today, and something interesting for the listeners, is that the University of Technical College, which you sponsor and you had incredible vision around, to basically introduce data center learning modules, particularly as the airline industry went into a bit of a reverse gear. I don't think that's a pun... It's applications just now, are significantly up on last year and I think your vision's going to drive quite an interesting uptake there. I don't know if you wanted to comment about that institution?

Andrew Stevens (36:34):

Yes, the UTCC has been a real success so far, we're heading into year two now, and as you mentioned, the interest in the whole process and what they offer is fantastic, and it's great, and it's because we've talked about an industry that they know nothing about, and it's an exciting industry.

(36:58):

I know that the lecturers at the university technical college went to your facility and they were blown away. They were blown away. And I think what we're actually doing with the UTC, and we know that we have 150 students per year group, we have to think simply about this, and those 150 children have parents, have friends, have siblings. So we're actually touching the lives probably now in terms of the data center message of 2000, 3000, 4,000 people, in and around the Heathrow M4 corridor where we want people.

[NEW_PARAGRAPH]And we know of cases where actually, children's parents have now joined this industry, because they just didn't know it existed, but they were engineers, there's a couple of phases of it, and that will continue.

(37:43):

So doing these simple things has a macro effect, and the one thing about the UTC, which is so exciting, is the fact that the collaboration from partners like yourselves and other organizations, it is fantastic, that's what makes a difference. The place is live, it's bubbly, it's not a typical school where the children have been dragged into a lecture by somebody to talk about data centers, and we all talk the wrong language, we don't talk the right language to them and we see it.

[NEW_PARAGRAPH]And so the University of Technical College movement, there's 48 in the UK, everybody should look at it because there are other ones in the country that will have programs that can help as we decentralize out of Slough and East London, there will be other opportunities. And the digital futures program that we are talking about is getting a lot of interest because interestingly, the way that UTCs really measure success isn't on their GCSE A level results, it's actually on destinations, and where they are: are they in the workplace? Are they on an apprenticeship? Are they doing a degree?

(38:53):

Because actually, that's the purpose of a 14 to 18 education system, it's to make them employable, get them into the workplace and give the employer somebody that they can mold, develop and make use of. And that's what they do so well.

Matt Pullen (39:10):

Fascinating, that's really, really fascinating. And so we've talked about apprenticeships, we've talked about the way that you're really helping to create momentum in terms of pushing 14 to 19-year-olds into the industry, which is really needed.

(39:26):

But I've referred to the airline industry, so on that analogy, let's go back up to 50,000 feet, and just say okay, fine, but what new approaches generally can organizations within the data center industry adopt, to combat this ongoing skill shortage?

Andrew Stevens (39:46):

Well I think they've got to take a step back from what they're currently doing, because I think there's an element at the moment of, and I just refer to it, of the cut and paste of the job board. They're cutting and pasting a data center technician from some other site, putting them on there, and I think companies have got to start to look at the transferrable skills from other industries, but in a really realistic way.

(40:11):

They've got to identify what knowledge, skills and behaviors are we looking for in our industry for a role, and try to stay away from technical competency, because ultimately, you'll know, running a very successful business, that certain people fit certain roles and you need a mixture of people.

(40:32):

So in certain departments, what are the actual knowledge, skills and behaviors that we're looking at? And we often refer to the military, we always refer back to the military and say yes, if you can get me some military personnel, they're disciplined, they take orders, they're conscientious, and all those kind of things, but the military doesn't have enough people in the UK to solve our problem.

(40:53):

But we then move on, and don't use the same process of saying, actually what we're looking for are committed, good attitude... So we need to start by looking at that. Then we need to start to look at what are we really doing in terms of the requirements, how much of the training do we need to provide and do we really need a data center technician to have five years experience and a BSC honors in a degree?

(41:19):

We've got to question ourselves, and I think we've got to take a white sheet of paper that's blank, and start to say if I was doing this now, from start, and there were no people out there to do it and many startups are exactly that, they don't have the knowledge what they have five years on, let's build it, and then start to build it that way.

(41:37):

And I think that's a much more effective way of doing it. We must stop chasing the direct employee model. Yes, we're going to find people but if we keep stealing from each other, that's not going to last long, we've already seen salaries getting to a point where they're silly and everyone knows they're silly. The knock on effect of that as well, there is an ethical argument here is that sometimes we are putting people into a job where they can never change because they're paid too much, and is that really good for the diversity, for the movement, for people's wellbeing... So there's that moral element that worries me sometimes, because I have people talking to me and saying, "I don't like my job, I want to move, but I can't, it's just too much money."

(42:19):

And so we've got to look at it, and think where are we going to be in five years time? I've been talking for a long while and it's been over 10 years when I've said this skills crisis is coming, talk about it, but of course I sometimes am viewed as having a vested interest because I'm a training pilot provider, I get that, but we are only tiny in the whole scheme of things. And I think having a chief education officer in your business working on a strategy to understand the education landscape, and then look at how you can work and embed knowledge, skills and behaviors or your requirements of those into FEs, into universities, into schools, will start to provide people with the right attitude and the ability to come and work in the business that you need. And this will also help change and solve the diversity problem that we've got.

[NEW_PARAGRAPH]We've got to start there, and it's not the industry's fault if I'm honest, here in the UK the uptake of STEM subjects in school has been dropping away for many, many years. And of course when that happens and many children make unconscious decisions around the age of eight that they don't wish to undertake a STEM subject or follow that career path, it's pretty difficult to turn those around... So we can't be blamed for that and other industries suffer from it, but we can be part of solving that problem.

(43:42):

And data centers are exciting, and when you actually expose young children to what data centers are in layman's terms, not in our technical terms, but, "This is where the internet lives and look what it can do!"

(43:57):

They get excited, they want to be part of that and they can see and understand the growth, probably better than we can because it's their lives.

Matt Pullen (44:05):

Yeah, I think that's a huge point. Yeah, my kids get excited when I talk to them about the fact that our buildings, as you say, are the homes of the internet, they do get excited, trying to convince them that the more mundane real estate aspects of data centers are interesting, they quickly blaze over...

(44:25):

But just a quick aside, as you look out from the UK into Europe or indeed to the US and to Asia, is there a model or a combination of models particularly around the education system of a country, or particular countries that you admire, and wish we had in motion decades ago?

Andrew Stevens (44:52):

Well I think there are a number of things, obviously the US and the European, those two markets in particular have very different educational structures. What they do have, which most people don't understand is a level of qualifications, so every qualification that you do is deemed to have a level, and has a physical number, so it actually goes from one through to eight across the globe. So you can map qualifications and things that are in different territories, so it gives you an idea of what you can do.

(45:21):

The US has a really good crop of technical colleges and I know that many of the organizations now are starting to work with the technical colleges in the US to develop programs, and that's working quite well. Europe is a little bit behind the curve, there are some good initiatives there; there's an organization in Dublin, there are a couple over in the Netherlands, and it's starting to move now.

(45:47):

And what we need to do is make sure that we're collaborating as organizations across that to help. There's a challenge that we need to make sure that we don't always end up talking in the data center space about just engineering, because the data center space has got an awful lot more jobs and roles and specialism: Finance, accounting, as you said, real estate, and all of those things, which we've still got to track that talent as well.

(46:10):

So we've got to make sure that we are broad in what we offer, and I think we've got to start to make sure the language we use as an industry is more open, is easier for people to understand, because we love an acronym, we love some technology phrase, but that doesn't float the boat and it doesn't inspire teachers, and we've got to talk to teachers across the globe. We've got to probably use some of the trade associations that are there to actually get them to say, "Look, there are some resources here, give it to everybody."

(46:38):

Let's put this out there as a DC 101, so everyone can start to understand what we're doing.

Matt Pullen (46:44):

Indeed. And funny you didn't mention Germany, which is always viewed as the bastion of certainly engineering talent, and I know we're not supposed to focus on engineering, but your view?

Andrew Stevens (46:57):

Well yes, no I do mean in 1946 the Germans took our education system, and we scrapped it at that time, and I think history will tell you that they probably made the right choice when it comes to that. And also they have a very good view of apprenticeships. Apprenticeships in Germany are held in very high regard, they are on parity of esteem with academic qualifications and that's good.

(47:24):

They also force through regulation, organizations to take on apprentices, and they often force it with licenses et cetera to operate, where they have to take on more apprentices than they actually need, so that they are fueling the market when the end of the apprenticeship comes, and there is skilled labor there, it's very forward thinking.

(47:45):

One of the challenges we have in the UK is that we still test children at the age of 16. Nowhere in Europe tests children at the age of 16, they all just wait till 18, and there's lots to be said here for that is actually an interruption to their education process. But that's the education system, rather than specifically ours. But of course when we go back to the UTC, they're not as focused necessarily on the GCSE results. Yes they are, but they're looking at what are they going to be like at the age of 18 or 19. So they're looking at destination and skills and behaviors, which is great.

Matt Pullen (48:21):

Fascinating. Could you just remind the listeners again how you'd like to rebrand, for as much my benefit as anything, how you'd like to rebrand the term you used?

Andrew Stevens (48:33):

Yeah, well I think apprenticeships, are viewed as 16 to 19-year-olds or even 20-year-olds, and that's what it is, if you're starting out in your career.

(48:42):

As I mentioned previously, apprenticeships are available in the UK for everybody, any age, and therefore I think we should call them career-ships, I think we should actually start to look at career-ships. Everyone is on a lifelong learning journey and that's their career-ship and that's their model, and that would I think enhance people, and I think it would have the middle generation, not necessarily the older generation, but your 25 to 45s, so you're thinking, "I'm still on this journey, and it's good to do, what can I do to add to it?"

[NEW_PARAGRAPH]And I think that would be very positive.

Matt Pullen (49:13):

Fantastic, thank you. So we went all the way back to 1946. So just coming back to what's gone on over the last couple of years, what's your perspective on the great resignation, and the impact it's currently having on the existing recruitment challenges in the industry?

Andrew Stevens (49:32):

My view is that I'm actually quite positive about it, I think it's a great opportunity to shake out some of the old ways of thinking, and that's not that any of those people aren't good for the industry as they are, but every industry goes through various stages, and this is almost like a fourth stage, it has helped force the issue.

(49:57):

I think the great resignation is something that is going to happen, I think companies might look at, "Maybe we pay people too much, they retire too early..."

(50:05):

In the future, that's something to be considered, but it's an opportunity for me, we can't change it. So you might as well look at it as an opportunity to say, "Right, let's start to redefine, maybe we can start to interest these people in being mentors in these UTCs, in these schools, and get them into some kind of alumni, so actually we can start to use those skills. We don't lose them in the rest of the industry and we recognize them in some way as being industry mentors. That would be something that would be very exciting.

Matt Pullen (50:39):

Yeah. But personally on the issue about wage inflation, I know we've got general inflation, which is putting pressure, but equally the product of that of course, is rising interest rates. I think our industry is seeing some headwinds from a returns point of view, simply because top down we're seeing increased costs of land, increased building costs, increased labor costs, but we're also seeing increased cost of debt.

(51:08):

And I'm not suggesting that things will change dramatically, but I think we'll probably have a re-basing of wages and just a more healthy outlook. But I think the most important thing for listeners is that the demand for our industry is not going away, demand for labor is going to continue, and in fact arguably if there are some economic headwinds, we'll probably get more opportunity to repurpose and to get people excited from other industries about the sector. Andrew, do you agree with that?

Andrew Stevens (51:45):

Yes I do Matt, I do agree with that, really there was a very short spike in, "Oh, we need to pay people..."

(51:53):

And I do think from talking to people across the industry, that was very quickly identified as not being sustainable and has slowed, like you said, and I think people are realizing that the cost of debt will have an impact on the returns. Yes, people are I'm conscious of the cost of living, but some of that is out of their control, so they've just got to sit tight and see what happens.

(52:14):

But I do, I think you're right, I think the headwinds for other industries will prove to be an opportunity for our industry. And I think we've just got to... That's back to my knowledge, skill and behaviors. We've really got to understand where those people are in those industries and get to them.

[NEW_PARAGRAPH]And we've got to make sure if we can, that we don't all fish in the same pond, we've got to be smart about what we're looking to do, and collaboration is going to be required. I know that's difficult when you're in the recruitment space, but I'm talking there with supply chain. You've got to work with the supply chain, because they're struggling as well. Supply chain is struggling with people. So it's right from the top to right down the supply chain, that has the same issue.

Matt Pullen (52:58):

So I just want to say thank you again for coming on and discussing the skill shortage and giving our listeners such a great insight into how we can address it. I also just want to thank you for what you're doing for the industry, because without people like you and your vision, that really you've brought to bear for many years now, the industry would be in a much more difficult place than it currently is.

(53:21):

So on behalf of the industry, I'd say thank you. But what I would like to end with, I dug out an interview you gave to intelligent CIO back in May 2020, which, an interesting time, bearing in mind what went on with Covid... And you were asked, "What do you currently identify as the major areas of investment in your industry?"

(53:45):

And your response was... It's quite a long response, I'll prose it: Interesting question, normally and historically, it's all been around technology, but in the last 12 months I've seen a real intangible shift into the skills agenda. And you went on to say that you'd engaged with a large number of the worlds' leading DC providers, operators, on a multi-year talent and education program.

(54:09):

And you said it was refreshing to talk about development, retention, and longevity for the industry. With the benefit of hindsight, would you still answer that question in the same way?

(54:22):

And importantly, that energy and excitement that you had based on your interaction, do you think the industry's actually responded and demonstrated to you that it's taken this issue seriously?

Andrew Stevens (54:35):

Yes, I do... Thank you for your kind words, but I'm very proud to say that the industry is talking about it, but more importantly, it's acting on it now. I've got clients that have said to me, "Okay, you've told us to stop talking and start acting, we are, we've got multi-year programs with people."

(54:59):

Because it's pointless just having a budget that lasts one year and pretending it's a training plan, because that's not going to work. You have to have something that's over a period of time and we are seeing it. And most importantly, I think the UTC is probably one of our proudest achievements, because I think it's a demonstration of all the things I've talked about over the many years. It's a way of looking at developing young talent, collaborating together, working with the education system, and doing it as friends and partners.

(55:30):

And I know from seeing everybody when we go to the UTC, if we could replicate that model around the world with that collaboration, we would have such a fantastic talent pipeline, that would be fantastic for the industry. And I think it's exciting times now. I'm probably as excited about the industry from the talent perspective as I've ever been, because people are now starting to say, "We need to do this and we're going to do it!"

(55:58):

And it's exciting and I'm grateful that the industry has taken it upon themselves to drive this forward.

Matt Pullen (56:06):

I couldn't agree with you more, so Andrew Stevens, president and CEO of CNet training, thank you so much for joining us and I'm sure our listeners found the conversation fascinating. Thank you so much.

Andrew Stevens (56:18):

Thank you very much. Thank you.

Matt Pullen (56:25):

Big thanks to Steve and Andrew, for joining me on this podcast. We're incredibly passionate about fostering the next generation of industry talent here at Cyrus One, and it's great to hear about the various initiatives that are being put in place to ensure this happens. On behalf of me, your host, Matt Pullen, thank you for listening to today's episode. We'd love to hear your thoughts, and remember to share and comment, and tag us at CyrusOne with #CyrusOneConnects.

(56:53):

I've been your host, Matt Pullen. Thanks again and take care.