Raising Connections

Native Wisdom: Seasonal Garden Tips to Support Insects and Preserve Habitat Harmony 11-03-2025

Rachann Mayer Season 8 Episode 43

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What does it really mean to garden with nature in mind? Rachann Mayer and Master Gardener Laura O'Callahan discuss how native plants, leaf litter, and seasonal habits like winterizing and fall planting can create thriving habitats for insects and other invertebrates.

From white oak trees that support hundreds of caterpillar species to the surprising benefits of not mulching leaves, they dig into practical tips that support biodiversity right in your backyard. Plus, they highlight her website, "In the Garden with Laura". Tune in for a blend of science, storytelling, and soil-level wisdom.

https://www.facebook.com/Inthegardenwithlaura/

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RCP Podcasst Winterizing Gardens Total Release Date 11-3-25.mp3

Transcript

00:00:00 Speaker 1

Today we're talking with Laura O'Callaghan, master gardener in Carroll County, regarding winter gardens and how do you put the beds to sleep and what do you do to protect the insects?

00:00:10 Speaker 1

And which insects do you want to protect?

00:00:11 Speaker 1

All right, we promised that we would talk about ephemerals.

00:00:14 Speaker 1

And to me, I'm seeing fairies and elves, but you are not.

00:00:18 Speaker 2

An ephemeral actually has a very specific meaning.

00:00:21 Speaker 2

And it's a plant that comes out very early in the spring before trees have leafed out.

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They grow in forests.

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but they get the sunlight because the trees have not leafed out, and they provide pollinators with the first sources of food.

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So they're very important for pollinators, and they're just stunning.

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And some ephemerals are Virginia bluebells, spring beauty, trilliums, and there are many trilliums, and they are just stunning.

00:00:49 Speaker 2

Mayapple is another ephemeral.

00:00:51 Speaker 1

Today's podcast is brought to you by Mariah Bell Manor Kennel, offering dog boarding, bathing, and daycare in an eco-friendly environment.

00:01:00 Speaker 1

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00:01:04 Speaker 1

Our touch extends to the food without preservatives, quality and natural shampoos, inclusive boarding, and a green living environment.

00:01:12 Speaker 1

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00:01:13 Speaker 1

Visit us anytime on our Facebook page, Mariah Bell Manor Kennel, or MariahBellManorKennel.com.

00:01:20 Speaker 1

Enjoy your program.

00:01:23 Speaker 1

Welcome to Raising Connections, connecting your community to others through Critters, Companions, Commerce, and Agriculture.

00:01:30 Speaker 1

I'm Ray Shan Mayer.

00:01:31 Speaker 1

Let's raise some connections.

00:01:32 Speaker 1

Here we go.

00:01:34 Speaker 1

Today, as always, we have a fun and interesting guest, Laura O'Callahan, Master Gardener.

00:01:39 Speaker 1

Welcome.

00:01:39 Speaker 2

Thank you so much for having me, Rashan.

00:01:42 Speaker 1

Can you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about what you do?

00:01:45 Speaker 2

Certainly.

00:01:45 Speaker 2

I am a Master Gardener, have been since 2014.

00:01:49 Speaker 2

I'm also a Circe's Ambassador.

00:01:52 Speaker 2

That's a non-profit organization for the conservation of invertebrates like bees, butterflies, dragonflies, and others.

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And I teach classes about native plants and about

00:02:04 Speaker 2

invertebrates.

00:02:05 Speaker 2

I have a website, In the Garden with Laura, and I really love gardening and plants.

00:02:10 Speaker 2

It's my passion.

00:02:12 Speaker 1

In the Garden with Laura, what's on your website?

00:02:14 Speaker 2

I have articles about different plants, about how to grow different plants, about the Philadelphia Flower Show every year, we've covered that, and the different native plants that have been shown there.

00:02:26 Speaker 2

Sort of a mishmash of different things, which I don't always put as many articles on as I would like, but hopefully I will do more in the future.

00:02:34 Speaker 2

Yes, it is indeed, a potpourri.

00:02:36 Speaker 1

I love that.

00:02:37 Speaker 1

Today we're going to talk about putting our gardens to sleep for the winter.

00:02:41 Speaker 1

When last time you were here, you said something that made my ears pop up, and several of our listeners at Hello at Raising Connections made their ears pop up.

00:02:49 Speaker 1

Our gardens hibernate.

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Yes.

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In one way, you have to think that you should be the caretaker for all of the invertebrates and plants that you have loved all summer long and all spring long.

00:03:04 Speaker 2

You don't want to kill them all come fall.

00:03:07 Speaker 1

That would be bad.

00:03:08 Speaker 2

And that does sound very grim, but it's very easy to do without thinking, without knowing.

00:03:14 Speaker 2

They need your care.

00:03:16 Speaker 1

When you say invertebrates, you're really talking about insects.

00:03:20 Speaker 2

I am.

00:03:21 Speaker 1

And I want to care for the insects, but yet there's so many insects I don't like.

00:03:27 Speaker 1

And the ones that come to the top of my mind, I like to go out in the evening when it's just about dusk, and these stinking little things bite my

00:03:34 Speaker 1

and I scratch for the next two weeks because I enjoyed 15 minutes outside.

00:03:39 Speaker 1

I don't know if there are mosquitoes or no-see-ums or whatever they are.

00:03:42 Speaker 1

I don't really want to keep them around, but I have to keep the good ones like the butterflies and the fireflies and the bitey ones.

00:03:50 Speaker 2

Well, one fact that I learned a number of years ago that just astounded me was that over 90% of insects are good, that they do not bite, they do not hurt you, they do not hurt you.

00:04:04 Speaker 2

hurt our agriculture, they are good for the environment.

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And without them, we could not exist.

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So I think we've grown up in a world where we think of all insects as horrible.

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And I do draw the line at insects in my house.

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No insects are allowed in the house if I can find them.

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But when it comes to outdoors, that's really where they live and where they belong and where they make our world possible.

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They pollinate our food, they pollinate our

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flowers.

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We would not exist without insects, according to E.O.

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Wilson, the deceased entomologist.

00:04:41 Speaker 1

So the few that are biting my ankles, they are really the small percentage.

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And I should not judge all insects by the few ankle biters.

00:04:50 Speaker 2

Correct.

00:04:51 Speaker 1

Okay.

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I'm going to remember that.

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It's going to be tough.

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Longer socks, a little bug spray on your ankles, longer pants.

00:04:59 Speaker 1

Got it.

00:04:59 Speaker 1

I will try to remember that.

00:05:01 Speaker 1

When I go out and I'm riding the horses or I've had the dogs out, I'm looking

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for ticks, I'm going to remember that ticks are not bugs.

00:05:06 Speaker 2

No, I think ticks would fall in that category of bad bugs.

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Okay.

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They're bad bugs.

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They are definitely bad bugs.

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Okay, but the good bugs way outnumber them.

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I'm going to remember this 90%.

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Over 90%.

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Over 90%.

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Okay, it's a small percentage that are the bad bugs.

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Correct.

00:05:22 Speaker 1

So I'm going to give my good bugs a habitat so I can care for them.

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What do bugs need?

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What do insects need to have a good habitat?

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One of the first habitats.

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When you think of winter's night, when you go

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go to bed, you would want to cover.

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Keeps you warm.

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And insects, bees, butterflies, many other insects, need the leaves.

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The leaves are like blankets for them.

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And they need those on the ground, on the dirt, to protect them from the weather.

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70% of bees live underground.

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Many butterflies are in the leaves, over winter in leaves, as well as many other insects.

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Now, if you really hate the look of leaves all over your yard, and some

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People do.

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You can always put them around a tree, like a little ring around your trees.

00:06:09 Speaker 1

Oh, really?

00:06:10 Speaker 2

Yes.

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And if you don't have any trees or you dislike that area, that look, you can always put them in a wild area, sort of off in a corner.

00:06:19 Speaker 2

But it's good to leave areas where there are leaves.

00:06:23 Speaker 2

You should not chop up the leaves.

00:06:26 Speaker 1

Oh.

00:06:26 Speaker 2

Chopping up the leaves, you kill 70% of the butterflies that are in those leaves.

00:06:32 Speaker 1

I saw in my mind the blankets getting

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torn to shreds.

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Correct.

00:06:36 Speaker 1

If I'm going out and the folks who tell me to maintain my yard, say mulch the leaves, cut them up into small amounts, run the mowers over them, that's not protecting the insects, but it's giving the yard nutrients.

00:06:48 Speaker 1

Well, there's got to be a balance here.

00:06:50 Speaker 2

If you leave the leaves whole, that gives the yard nutrients.

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Think of a forest.

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The leaves in a forest, they fall, they sit there, and the nutrients from the trees go right back into the soil, and they go back in

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whole.

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Leaves will do the same to your yard.

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And if you have a thin layer, if you can withstand having a little bit of leaves on your yard, a thin layer of leaves on the grass is good for the grass.

00:07:18 Speaker 2

It provides nutrients.

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And if you put more leaves around a tree, that provides nutrients for the tree or in your garden.

00:07:26 Speaker 2

And if you want to create a garden under your tree, you can take dirt, fresh dirt, put it on top of the roots about

00:07:34 Speaker 2

three to six inches away from the trunk because you don't want to have the dirt go right up to the trunk because then voles and other mammals will go in and chew the trunk.

00:07:45 Speaker 1

That would not be good because the tree's a big plant.

00:07:47 Speaker 2

Exactly, So you need a space around it, a ring around your tree.

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Put the dirt on top of the roots, plant bulbs or plant spring ephemerals or other plants that you want to have.

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Ephemerals, meaning blooming over and over.

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No, ephemerals.

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We'll come back.

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Okay.

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But plant a garden around your tree with the dirt over the plants, put the leaves on top, and in the spring, the plants will come right up through the leaves, and you'll have a ready-made garden.

00:08:16 Speaker 1

I'll be darned.

00:08:17 Speaker 1

I always thought that if I put mulch around the trees, I always knew to take the mulch away from the bottom of the tree so it wouldn't digest the area of the tree.

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Right.

00:08:25 Speaker 2

It screws it up in so many ways.

00:08:27 Speaker 1

Oh, many, many ways.

00:08:28 Speaker 1

I learned that the hard way with some beautiful apple trees.

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It was not good.

00:08:31 Speaker 2

Yeah, no.

00:08:32 Speaker 1

And I think I committed apple side by accident.

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It was not good.

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It was not good at all.

00:08:36 Speaker 2

Apple side or apple side?

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Apple side.

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It was not good.

00:08:39 Speaker 1

So we learned that lesson, but how do you keep the leaves there?

00:08:43 Speaker 1

You guys are going to put some dirt and some mulch together.

00:08:46 Speaker 2

You don't even have to worry about the mulch, because the leaves are the mulch.

00:08:49 Speaker 1

Then how do you keep the leaves from blowing off?

00:08:52 Speaker 1

Just let it be there.

00:08:53 Speaker 2

Yeah.

00:08:53 Speaker 1

Interesting.

00:08:54 Speaker 2

And actually what I've done in answer to that question, I have a magnolia tree that I started leaving all of its leaves right underneath of it so that when the yard gets mowed, all the plants under there wouldn't get mowed.

00:09:08 Speaker 2

I put wood blocks, you know, long 6 foot strips of wood around the magnolia and then the leaves sort of stay in that area.

00:09:17 Speaker 2

Or you can rake them in and put them over the edge, just give a little rake.

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So a little bit of

00:09:22 Speaker 1

a little bit of function.

00:09:23 Speaker 2

Yeah.

00:09:24 Speaker 2

So you could do that around an oak tree or any tree.

00:09:27 Speaker 1

Okay.

00:09:28 Speaker 2

And you can go out to the drip line, which is where the end of the branches are.

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So you can make quite a big garden if you want.

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You have the energy for it.

00:09:35 Speaker 1

So if the drip line is on the outside, I know we're meandering a little bit.

00:09:39 Speaker 1

That area, do I have to water inside?

00:09:41 Speaker 1

Because trees use a lot of water.

00:09:42 Speaker 1

I always thought I couldn't put a garden under a tree because the tree would use the water.

00:09:48 Speaker 2

No.

00:09:48 Speaker 2

I mean, you could even put some very shallow rooted shrubs.

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like a native azalea under there, so long as it's protected from deer.

00:09:57 Speaker 2

But yes, you could put it on the outer side.

00:09:59 Speaker 2

You can create a whole garden underneath a tree.

00:10:01 Speaker 1

Interesting.

00:10:02 Speaker 1

So I can save my insects that will maybe eat the bad dudes.

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Those little ankle biters.

00:10:08 Speaker 2

You will eat the bad dudes.

00:10:10 Speaker 2

Save your insects, and they will pollinate your garden.

00:10:12 Speaker 2

Save your insects, save your leaves, save yourself from raking all those leaves and disposing of them, and give your tree some more nutrients.

00:10:22 Speaker 1

Okay.

00:10:23 Speaker 2

Mulch it.

00:10:23 Speaker 1

So how do I invite the right insects to my habitat for the wintertime?

00:10:30 Speaker 2

You don't invite, they come.

00:10:32 Speaker 2

It's like that old baseball film, build it and they will come.

00:10:36 Speaker 1

Okay, because I would really like to get rid of those little ankle biters that

00:10:40 Speaker 1

bother me about July.

00:10:41 Speaker 2

Certainly, swallows and other birds will come and eat the mosquitoes.

00:10:46 Speaker 2

And there are some insects that are incredibly big on mosquitoes.

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Eat a lot of mosquitoes.

00:10:52 Speaker 1

We had a tornado come through, and that was about 7, eight years ago now.

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And we lost a lot of trees.

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And when that happened, our bat population really took a dive.

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They lost their homes and they found new ones.

00:11:05 Speaker 2

Right.

00:11:06 Speaker 2

Bats are great.

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You know, they can eat hundreds, if not thousands of them.

00:11:11 Speaker 1

Now we have this beautiful yard where we had trees before, and I have mosquitoes visit like crazy.

00:11:18 Speaker 2

One is you have to make sure you don't have any open sources of water for the mosquitoes.

00:11:22 Speaker 1

We live near a pond and a creek.

00:11:24 Speaker 2

Okay.

00:11:25 Speaker 2

One, you might get it moving.

00:11:26 Speaker 2

Put in something to make the water move.

00:11:28 Speaker 2

This is not my area of expertise.

00:11:30 Speaker 2

We have a pond, and it just sits quietly.

00:11:33 Speaker 2

We don't do anything with it, but it's far enough away that we don't have problems with mosquitoes.

00:11:38 Speaker 2

But bats, swallows,

00:11:40 Speaker 2

There's some other insects that'll really go after.

00:11:43 Speaker 1

Those.

00:11:43 Speaker 1

And here I was hoping when I put my garden to bed this year, I could really cultivate all those hibernating ones to get rid of the mosquitoes themselves.

00:11:50 Speaker 1

No.

00:11:50 Speaker 1

Okay.

00:11:51 Speaker 2

Yeah.

00:11:51 Speaker 2

I would get something in your ponds that make them move.

00:11:55 Speaker 2

So now that might affect the dragonflies, but mosquitoes like still water.

00:12:00 Speaker 1

Okay.

00:12:00 Speaker 2

That's how they breed.

00:12:01 Speaker 1

And not a fan of mosquitoes.

00:12:02 Speaker 1

When we're looking to put our gardens to bed for the winter, I'm still a little surprised.

00:12:08 Speaker 1

The first thing we do is nothing.

00:12:10 Speaker 1

Is that the true adage?

00:12:11 Speaker 1

The first thing we do is nothing.

00:12:12 Speaker 2

Actually, it really is a matter of you don't rake up the leaves the way traditionally you have.

00:12:19 Speaker 2

But there's so many other things that you can do.

00:12:22 Speaker 1

Okay.

00:12:23 Speaker 2

So there really is no rest for the gardener year round, but it's just a whole different style.

00:12:29 Speaker 2

It's not like the spring, which it's like just all heck breaks out as you go into the garden and try to catch up with things.

00:12:35 Speaker 2

But it's just a bunch of different activities.

00:12:38 Speaker 1

So I'm going to rake my leaves.

00:12:39 Speaker 1

I'm going to

00:12:39 Speaker 1

barrier them in.

00:12:41 Speaker 1

I'm going to maybe do some planting under the trees so that the leaves will stay in.

00:12:45 Speaker 1

We'll put a little microcosm there to get the insects coming together, hopefully keeping the deer out.

00:12:51 Speaker 1

But I'm used to going out and trimming everything back because somewhere in my mind, I heard this leaf mold and plants mold and therefore mold is bad and we should clean out the garden.

00:13:03 Speaker 2

When you see disease or dead plants,

00:13:07 Speaker 2

you always want to remove them because they cause more death and disease.

00:13:12 Speaker 2

So that's very simple, very straightforward.

00:13:14 Speaker 2

Get rid of dead and diseased plants.

00:13:16 Speaker 2

And when it comes to shrubs and trees, there's the 3D rule.

00:13:21 Speaker 2

If it's dead, diseased, or dying, you get rid of those.

00:13:24 Speaker 1

Say this read again.

00:13:25 Speaker 2

Death.

00:13:26 Speaker 2

diseased or dying, you remove them, like broken branches and that sort of thing, because it's just going to cause more disease, more problems.

00:13:37 Speaker 2

And there's actually, when it comes to trees, if you see branches that are rubbing, you want to get rid of one of the branches, because if they rub, it's going to take the bark off the tree, and then that will invite disease or insects to the two branches.

00:13:53 Speaker 1

Tree chafing.

00:13:54 Speaker 2

Yeah.

00:13:55 Speaker 1

Bad thing.

00:13:56 Speaker 2

Bad thing.

00:13:56 Speaker 2

So you've got to cut one of them.

00:13:58 Speaker 2

But other than that, whole area of sort of trimming up your garden, you leave alone.

00:14:04 Speaker 2

Now, I would say another caveat, which is I just went into my garden recently, and I had planted one mountain sunflower, and I had planted a couple goldenrod.

00:14:16 Speaker 2

First I'd planted the goldenrod.

00:14:18 Speaker 2

It spread everywhere.

00:14:19 Speaker 2

Wonderful plant.

00:14:20 Speaker 2

It is the most valuable plant you can grow for butterflies and other insects.

00:14:26 Speaker 2

But

00:14:26 Speaker 2

had gotten a bit out of hand.

00:14:28 Speaker 2

Well, this mountain sunflower, it just pushed its way through all the goldenrod, took over the whole garden, had taken over like two-thirds of this one garden area under my fringe tree.

00:14:39 Speaker 2

And so this fall, I just started pulling it out because there were too many of them.

00:14:44 Speaker 2

It had dominated the garden and it changed the whole look of the garden.

00:14:47 Speaker 2

It didn't look very good.

00:14:49 Speaker 2

I mean, it grows to 7, 8 feet.

00:14:51 Speaker 2

They're huge.

00:14:52 Speaker 2

Yeah, I did remove that and I'll remove more of it.

00:14:55 Speaker 2

So sometimes you do a major

00:14:56 Speaker 2

your revision, but otherwise you only do death and disease.

00:15:01 Speaker 1

We'll continue this conversation about winter gardens and all of the things when we come back.

00:15:05 Speaker 1

Welcome back to Raising Connections.

00:15:07 Speaker 1

Today we're talking with Laura O'Callaghan about winter gardens and hibernation through the insects.

00:15:12 Speaker 1

So how do I know if something's dying or it's just it's time to start hibernating?

00:15:18 Speaker 1

For example, I have lots of hostas and the hostas sort of melt in on themselves.

00:15:24 Speaker 1

They come out wrapped up beautifully in the

00:15:26 Speaker 1

spring and spread their leaves.

00:15:28 Speaker 1

But in the fall, they kind of just melt back in.

00:15:32 Speaker 1

And I always go out and clean them up because I think that's going to make not good habitat.

00:15:37 Speaker 1

That's going to make a mess and slugs and things.

00:15:40 Speaker 1

But are they dead or are they dying or what is that?

00:15:43 Speaker 2

You're exactly right.

00:15:45 Speaker 2

While hostas are a non-native plant and they're a lovely plant and everybody loves to grow them, but you've described exactly what an herbaceous perennial is, which is that when it gets

00:15:57 Speaker 2

cold, when it gets frozen, it dies back and it just sort of turns into mush.

00:16:02 Speaker 2

And it will invite disease if you do that, again, slugs.

00:16:06 Speaker 2

Yeah, they love them.

00:16:07 Speaker 2

Right, with hostas, cut them back.

00:16:09 Speaker 2

As soon as it starts wilting and looking messy.

00:16:14 Speaker 1

So that's something I'm going to go out and cut back.

00:16:15 Speaker 2

Absolutely.

00:16:16 Speaker 1

But my black-eyed Susans, the state flower, they go upright and they have these

00:16:22 Speaker 1

almost prickly, fuzzy leaves, and they're munch, prickly fuzzier.

00:16:27 Speaker 1

I guess that's a technical term.

00:16:28 Speaker 1

But they don't go to mush like the hostas do.

00:16:32 Speaker 2

And they will stay all winter long like that.

00:16:35 Speaker 1

But kind of dried and dead looking.

00:16:37 Speaker 2

Yes.

00:16:38 Speaker 1

But I don't trim those back because they're not dead.

00:16:40 Speaker 2

Because the birds can come and eat the seeds.

00:16:43 Speaker 2

And there's a whole concept, which I still have a hard time buying into, but the whole concept that you can create architectural looks in your garden.

00:16:52 Speaker 2

with some tall plants that you leave, like ironweed or black-eyed susans, coneflowers, and you just leave them standing in place, and you look out in the winter and you see these sort of upright things, snow-covered.

00:17:08 Speaker 2

might not call it the most glorious of garden looks, but it's architectural interest is the way they describe it.

00:17:14 Speaker 1

I learned a fun word years ago, a pokey yoke.

00:17:19 Speaker 1

That's just a fun word to say, pokey yoke, right?

00:17:21 Speaker 1

And when you see the fire hydrants on the roads with the little antenna looking things sticking up, it's so the snow plows won't hit them.

00:17:29 Speaker 1

Right.

00:17:29 Speaker 1

So the cone flowers and the black-eyed Susans are pokey yolks sticking up out of the ground so we know where to shovel.

00:17:36 Speaker 2

Exactly.

00:17:36 Speaker 2

There are all

00:17:37 Speaker 2

Also, other plants, which, again, sort of shows their origins, like anise hyssop, which is not a true native to the Maryland Piedmont region, which is the region we live in, but it is, if you look at Searcy's book about plants for bees, it's the number one plant for native bees because they can produce so much food from it, and they love it.

00:18:00 Speaker 2

If you grow anise hyssop, it'll be covered in bumblebees and bees all summer long.

00:18:06 Speaker 1

Well, I think anise,

00:18:08 Speaker 1

almost taste licorice, sambuca, and cookies.

00:18:11 Speaker 2

It gets its name from anise.

00:18:13 Speaker 2

But it's not that anise.

00:18:15 Speaker 2

It's just a plant that grows about 5 feet or so tall.

00:18:19 Speaker 2

And you'll get many of them over time.

00:18:22 Speaker 2

You know, it'll just kind of spread.

00:18:23 Speaker 2

And some people love the look of them.

00:18:25 Speaker 2

I just showed someone my plant and they were like, oh, I love those flowers.

00:18:29 Speaker 2

And it's not my cup of tea, but the bees love it so much.

00:18:32 Speaker 2

I love talking to the bees when I go out there.

00:18:33 Speaker 2

And it's just a fabulous plant for them.

00:18:36 Speaker 2

There's also a yellow

00:18:38 Speaker 2

giant hyssop, which is native to the Piedmont region, I believe.

00:18:42 Speaker 2

I have that.

00:18:43 Speaker 2

I think the bees aren't as keen on it.

00:18:45 Speaker 2

You know, they've just kind of like put their nose up, and they only go there when the purple one is full of bees.

00:18:52 Speaker 2

But that plant is a tender perennial, and that's probably because it's not native here.

00:18:57 Speaker 2

So you don't want to cut that one way back, like down to 6 inches or so, because it will die.

00:19:04 Speaker 2

So I leave it tall, and the tall leaves protect

00:19:08 Speaker 2

protect the bottom part.

00:19:09 Speaker 2

The same is true of chrysanthemums, I do believe.

00:19:12 Speaker 2

That they are a little tender here, so you don't cut them back in the winter.

00:19:18 Speaker 2

You let them grow with their blossoms on them, and that protects the roots so that in the spring they'll come back.

00:19:25 Speaker 1

Interesting.

00:19:26 Speaker 1

How do we learn what we're doing so we don't destroy the habitat inadvertently?

00:19:30 Speaker 2

Right.

00:19:30 Speaker 2

Well, first thing, I think there's a whole notion of 70% or more of your garden should be native plants, because that is what some species need to survive.

00:19:43 Speaker 2

They did a study of chickadees, and they found that when chickadees were in an area that had fewer than 70% of native plants, they weren't able to sustain or increase

00:19:56 Speaker 2

their population.

00:19:58 Speaker 1

Oh, my.

00:19:59 Speaker 2

You need to look at the exact study to get all the final details, but the bottom line was that if it's like 50% native, 50% exotic, chickadees won't be able to really survive over a long period of time in an environment.

00:20:13 Speaker 2

The goal, the mark was set at 70% or more of native plants.

00:20:18 Speaker 2

You might say, oh, you know, how can I do that with my garden?

00:20:21 Speaker 2

Well, one, you do it over time, and two, remember the trees.

00:20:25 Speaker 2

The trees

00:20:26 Speaker 2

like the big powerhouses that come in and give you a lot of bonus points right away.

00:20:33 Speaker 1

Okay.

00:20:33 Speaker 2

An oak tree supports over 550 different types of moth and butterfly caterpillars.

00:20:42 Speaker 1

Oh my.

00:20:42 Speaker 2

So it is the number one tree, the white oak, to support caterpillars.

00:20:49 Speaker 2

And those caterpillars in turn support all the baby birds because birds go like, I don't have the chickadee numbers

00:20:56 Speaker 2

here, but chickadees go through a phenomenal amount, just a phenomenal amount of caterpillars feeding each brood of chicks.

00:21:06 Speaker 1

When I think caterpillars, I think two things.

00:21:08 Speaker 1

Well, three things.

00:21:10 Speaker 1

One, we're going to bed.

00:21:11 Speaker 1

So I think the woolly bears and their predictions.

00:21:14 Speaker 1

And I think of all of the things that I was told as a kid.

00:21:17 Speaker 1

Now I'm in my 50s and I heard everything from don't touch them, they'll bite, to they'll sting, to you'll go blind if you rub your eyes, to all these things.

00:21:27 Speaker 1

I think the goal was to let me leave the caterpillar alone.

00:21:31 Speaker 1

Yeah, But then I also see in the spring, those caterpillars, those bagworms.

00:21:35 Speaker 1

And I think, what is your purpose here other than to kill my tree?

00:21:39 Speaker 1

And

00:21:40 Speaker 1

It seems like the balance sometimes gets out of whack.

00:21:43 Speaker 2

I was just thinking about those bagworms.

00:21:46 Speaker 2

The woolly bears are a different issue, but they're so cute.

00:21:49 Speaker 2

But you do leave them.

00:21:50 Speaker 2

I had one in my garage the other day, which I gently moved outside because I didn't want us to drive over it with our car.

00:21:55 Speaker 2

But the bagworms, you know, your tendency is, oh, go get them killed.

00:22:00 Speaker 2

And I actually did that 5, 10 years ago.

00:22:02 Speaker 2

I had an arborist and, you know, they sprayed them for me.

00:22:05 Speaker 2

But they feed a phenomenal number of birds, which if

00:22:10 Speaker 2

You look at it, we have lost 3 billion birds in the last 50 years.

00:22:16 Speaker 1

Oh my.

00:22:17 Speaker 2

Habitat loss is the biggest cause.

00:22:20 Speaker 2

A third of bird species are at risk.

00:22:22 Speaker 2

230 bird species are declining.

00:22:26 Speaker 2

And 90% of the losses come from 12 bird families.

00:22:29 Speaker 2

So it's just horrific.

00:22:31 Speaker 1

So is that because we're taking their food source away or their environment?

00:22:36 Speaker 1

Is it the house and shelter or is it the food?

00:22:38 Speaker 2

Their land, their food,

00:22:40 Speaker 2

their housing, their trees, it's development, they don't have habitat.

00:22:45 Speaker 2

But what you can do, if you want to really control those bag worms, you can take like a rake and just pull on the bag and open it up a bit and then the birds can get at it more easily.

00:22:56 Speaker 1

Aha.

00:22:57 Speaker 2

Yes.

00:22:57 Speaker 1

There's the secret weapon.

00:22:58 Speaker 2

Do it a little faster.

00:23:00 Speaker 1

Oh, that brings back such a memory.

00:23:02 Speaker 1

Being a kid on Saturday mornings, I could not get into the cereal bag until mom opened it because those little suckers were tight.

00:23:08 Speaker 1

Got it.

00:23:08 Speaker 1

I'm going to open the cereal bag for the worm.

00:23:10 Speaker 2

Exactly.

00:23:11 Speaker 2

And the other thing to note is that you can see a plant or a shrub or a tree that's stripped of its leaves early in the season.

00:23:20 Speaker 2

You shouldn't worry because if it's early in the season, there's time for all those leaves to grow back.

00:23:24 Speaker 1

So I'm still a little confused.

00:23:26 Speaker 1

I know some things.

00:23:27 Speaker 1

I know more than I did, but I don't know how to put it together.

00:23:30 Speaker 2

Okay.

00:23:30 Speaker 1

It's November.

00:23:32 Speaker 2

Yep.

00:23:32 Speaker 1

I want to get rid of those ankle-biting insects.

00:23:35 Speaker 1

And so I want to bring in the good insects.

00:23:37 Speaker 1

I'm not going to go out and buy them because I'm

00:23:40 Speaker 1

might disrupt the balance.

00:23:42 Speaker 1

And I'm going to try to keep the things that look dead clipped back, but the things that are standing up straight and stiff and tall, those black-eyed Susans, those coneflowers, those things, I'm going to leave them alone.

00:23:54 Speaker 1

But the stuff that goes to mush, I'm going to get rid of.

00:23:57 Speaker 1

Right.

00:23:58 Speaker 1

But how do I really, for example, and I know this is not native, the azaleas, uh-oh.

00:24:05 Speaker 2

You've come to a special place in my heart.

00:24:08 Speaker 1

Uh-oh, you got to take this one.

00:24:10 Speaker 2

Okay, azaleas.

00:24:11 Speaker 2

There are many, many beautiful non-native azaleas, but there are also native azaleas.

00:24:18 Speaker 2

And they are stunning.

00:24:21 Speaker 2

And once you fall in love with them, you'll just spurn your old favorites.

00:24:25 Speaker 1

Really.

00:24:25 Speaker 2

Yes.

00:24:26 Speaker 1

Okay, your eyes are glowing as you're telling me this.

00:24:28 Speaker 1

I'm having trouble believing it.

00:24:29 Speaker 2

The native to Maryland is pink.

00:24:32 Speaker 2

It's called the Pinkster to the Piedmont.

00:24:34 Speaker 2

It's called the Pinkster azalea.

00:24:36 Speaker 2

And it's just a sort of a medium pink.

00:24:38 Speaker 2

It's lovely.

00:24:39 Speaker 2

There's also

00:24:40 Speaker 2

the swamp azalea, which is the coastal region over by the shore.

00:24:44 Speaker 2

I have broken my efforts to go pure native when it comes to azaleas.

00:24:49 Speaker 2

There are 17 or 18 that are native to the east coast of the United States, and there's one that's native to the west coast.

00:24:56 Speaker 2

They come in yellow and vibrant orange and just all these deep pink, and then people have cultivated them and created all these different varieties.

00:25:06 Speaker 2

They grow from like 5 feet to 10

00:25:10 Speaker 2

feet, 15 feet.

00:25:11 Speaker 2

They are loose.

00:25:12 Speaker 2

They're much more open.

00:25:14 Speaker 2

They lose their leaves in the winter.

00:25:16 Speaker 2

Can I say one person who sells them that I know of?

00:25:18 Speaker 2

Sure.

00:25:18 Speaker 2

His name is, it's White's Nursery in Germantown.

00:25:22 Speaker 2

It's the only place that I know to get native azaleas.

00:25:25 Speaker 2

Martha Stewart has begun buying from him and is building this whole big azalea place up in upstate New York.

00:25:31 Speaker 2

They are just stunning.

00:25:33 Speaker 2

And I buy the little ones, and within three or four years, they're a nice big size, and then five or six years,

00:25:40 Speaker 2

It's like, what do I have here?

00:25:41 Speaker 2

It's covering my porch.

00:25:42 Speaker 2

It's because it's native.

00:25:43 Speaker 1

It's in its right place.

00:25:45 Speaker 2

Right.

00:25:45 Speaker 2

Some of them, some of them grow very big.

00:25:47 Speaker 2

Some are much smaller.

00:25:48 Speaker 2

They are just beautiful.

00:25:51 Speaker 2

Now the deer love them.

00:25:52 Speaker 2

So you have to protect them as they love the other azaleas too.

00:25:57 Speaker 2

They love all the azaleas.

00:25:58 Speaker 2

And it's why many natives are not found in the woods anymore because the deer have just wiped them out.

00:26:05 Speaker 1

I'll be darned.

00:26:05 Speaker 1

I thought that was because of us people.

00:26:07 Speaker 2

No, it's a deer.

00:26:08 Speaker 2

But I just think they're.

00:26:10 Speaker 2

The prettiest shrub there you can get.

00:26:12 Speaker 1

So this is the time of year.

00:26:14 Speaker 1

Would I go now and buy them?

00:26:15 Speaker 2

You could.

00:26:16 Speaker 2

You'd have to call and make an appointment.

00:26:18 Speaker 2

He's not open, but he does take appointments.

00:26:20 Speaker 1

So I could take these new plants, the azaleas, and put them in the ground now.

00:26:25 Speaker 2

Absolutely.

00:26:26 Speaker 1

Put my leaf mulch around them, start the beds like we talked about, and in the spring have a really nice surprise.

00:26:32 Speaker 2

Yes.

00:26:33 Speaker 1

It surprised me to plant in the fall.

00:26:35 Speaker 2

Yes.

00:26:35 Speaker 1

In my mind, I always thought, this is when you put the bulbs in.

00:26:38 Speaker 2

Right.

00:26:38 Speaker 1

And then trying to remember where you put the

00:26:40 Speaker 1

bulbs in?

00:26:40 Speaker 1

It's nature's graffiti, the bulbs that pop up.

00:26:43 Speaker 2

The trick is that the plants, the shrubs, the trees, the bulbs, like to have as much time as possible to get those roots in before summer, which is a very stressful time for them.

00:26:55 Speaker 2

When it's dry, it's hot, nobody's giving them enough love.

00:26:59 Speaker 2

So they really like to go in the fall.

00:27:02 Speaker 2

Now bulbs always go in the fall.

00:27:04 Speaker 2

But shrubs and the trees, they love this time of year.

00:27:06 Speaker 2

And you can plant right up until for shrubs and trees,

00:27:10 Speaker 2

the ground is hard.

00:27:11 Speaker 2

For perennials that bloom in the fall and the spring, you can plant up to two weeks after the first hard frost.

00:27:20 Speaker 1

After the first hard frost.

00:27:21 Speaker 1

I know.

00:27:21 Speaker 2

I just learned this from a nursery.

00:27:24 Speaker 1

I'll be darned.

00:27:25 Speaker 2

I know.

00:27:25 Speaker 1

Because I won't be sweaty and hot when I go out and do this now.

00:27:29 Speaker 1

I might actually enjoy gardening.

00:27:31 Speaker 2

Now, summer blooming plants have to go in two weeks before the first hard frost.

00:27:37 Speaker 2

That ship has sailed.

00:27:38 Speaker 1

Okay.

00:27:38 Speaker 1

All right.

00:27:39 Speaker 1

We promised that we

00:27:40 Speaker 1

We were talking about ephemerals.

00:27:41 Speaker 1

And to me, I'm seeing fairies and elves, but you are not.

00:27:45 Speaker 2

An ephemeral actually has a very specific meaning.

00:27:48 Speaker 2

And it's a plant that comes out very early in the spring before trees have leafed out.

00:27:55 Speaker 2

They grow in forests, but they get the sunlight because the trees have not leafed out.

00:28:00 Speaker 2

And they provide pollinators with the first sources of food.

00:28:04 Speaker 2

So they're very important for pollinators, and they're just stunning.

00:28:08 Speaker 2

And some ephemerals are

00:28:10 Speaker 2

Virginia Bluebells, Spring Beauty.

00:28:12 Speaker 2

Those are a few of the femorals.

00:28:14 Speaker 1

So the Linton Rose.

00:28:15 Speaker 2

No, that is not a native.

00:28:17 Speaker 1

Oh.

00:28:18 Speaker 2

It is a favorite by many gardeners, but it's not.

00:28:21 Speaker 1

It's not native.

00:28:22 Speaker 1

I did not know that.

00:28:23 Speaker 1

I see it when I go into the woods.

00:28:25 Speaker 1

I'll be dying.

00:28:25 Speaker 2

Right.

00:28:26 Speaker 2

Now that's escaped from someone's garden.

00:28:28 Speaker 1

Oh my goodness.

00:28:29 Speaker 2

Yeah.

00:28:29 Speaker 1

So Beauty Berry.

00:28:31 Speaker 2

Beauty Berry.

00:28:32 Speaker 2

No.

00:28:32 Speaker 2

Spring Beauty.

00:28:33 Speaker 1

Spring Beauty.

00:28:34 Speaker 2

Virginia Bluebells.

00:28:36 Speaker 1

Trillium.

00:28:37 Speaker 2

Trilliums, yes, and there are many trilliums, and they are just stunning.

00:28:41 Speaker 2

Mayapple is another ephemeral.

00:28:43 Speaker 2

There's one, I got it.

00:28:45 Speaker 2

was the cutest little plant.

00:28:46 Speaker 2

It shot up with this white flower, and the next day, the flower was gone.

00:28:52 Speaker 2

Somebody had come and eaten it.

00:28:54 Speaker 2

So it now has a little cage over it, protecting it.

00:28:57 Speaker 2

But those are the ones that just come to mind right off the bat.

00:28:59 Speaker 1

But crocus is non-native.

00:29:01 Speaker 2

Crocus is a non-native Asian bulb.

00:29:03 Speaker 1

But they would fall in about that same time, but they're.

00:29:07 Speaker 2

Correct.

00:29:07 Speaker 1

Now we know what ephemerals are.

00:29:09 Speaker 1

They're not fairies.

00:29:10 Speaker 2

And they can just spread all over the forest floor and look stunning.

00:29:15 Speaker 1

So the next time I see skunk cabbage, I'm going to call it an ephemeral.

00:29:18 Speaker 2

That is an ephemeral.

00:29:20 Speaker 2

Yes, indeed.

00:29:21 Speaker 1

That will make it sound better.

00:29:22 Speaker 2

Yes.

00:29:23 Speaker 2

Some plants got really unlucky with the names they were given.

00:29:27 Speaker 1

A skunk cabbage.

00:29:28 Speaker 1

It's an ephemeral.

00:29:29 Speaker 1

It's good.

00:29:30 Speaker 1

I'm going to remember that.

00:29:31 Speaker 2

Right, like spiderwort.

00:29:32 Speaker 2

That's another one.

00:29:33 Speaker 1

Oh, that's a beautiful one, yes.

00:29:34 Speaker 2

It's a beautiful plant, but

00:29:36 Speaker 2

not so beautiful name.

00:29:37 Speaker 1

So at this point, if I want to go down and plant azaleas, put in my bulbs, I might be pulling some bulbs out that won't overwinter.

00:29:46 Speaker 2

I'd just throw them back in again.

00:29:48 Speaker 1

Okay.

00:29:48 Speaker 2

Yeah.

00:29:49 Speaker 2

But remember that when you plant a plant, get a sense of how big it's going to be.

00:29:53 Speaker 2

And then divide that in half.

00:29:55 Speaker 2

So if it's going to be a four foot wide shrub, make sure that you leave 2 feet on each side of the shrub so it has plenty of space to grow.

00:30:03 Speaker 2

Or if it was a tree, if it's going to be 20 feet wide,

00:30:06 Speaker 2

It has 10 feet on each side, 10 feet from the driveway, you know, that you leave enough space all around it.

00:30:13 Speaker 1

One of the tips that when you were here in this spring, you gave us was take a picture of your garden in the various seasons.

00:30:22 Speaker 2

Yes.

00:30:22 Speaker 1

Tell us why.

00:30:23 Speaker 2

Because it's so easy to forget what it looks like and what is where and what might not be working and what does work, what you love and what you want to make sure you have how

00:30:36 Speaker 2

happen again.

00:30:37 Speaker 1

I have one last question for you.

00:30:38 Speaker 2

Certainly.

00:30:39 Speaker 1

There are pumpkins and gourds everywhere in the fall for decorating.

00:30:44 Speaker 1

Can I plant those seeds?

00:30:46 Speaker 2

Yes, there's no reason not to.

00:30:48 Speaker 1

They'll come up in the spring.

00:30:50 Speaker 2

They should.

00:30:51 Speaker 2

We throw them down a hillside every year, and we've had them grow sometimes down there.

00:30:56 Speaker 2

I think the deer get them too, but.

00:30:58 Speaker 1

The deer.

00:30:59 Speaker 1

Okay.

00:30:59 Speaker 1

So if I like that pumpkin, I can make more pumpkins.

00:31:03 Speaker 2

Absolutely.

00:31:04 Speaker 2

I would just look up how to grow pumpkin seeds from a pumpkin.

00:31:08 Speaker 2

Because sometimes there are things you do to prep it.

00:31:11 Speaker 1

Gotcha.

00:31:12 Speaker 1

Sort of like watermelons.

00:31:13 Speaker 2

Yeah.

00:31:13 Speaker 1

Make sure you're doing all the things.

00:31:15 Speaker 2

Right.

00:31:15 Speaker 1

It's all about nurturing.

00:31:17 Speaker 2

Yes.

00:31:17 Speaker 1

Gardeners by nature.

00:31:18 Speaker 2

Some seeds like to be in the cold over the winter.

00:31:22 Speaker 2

So like milkweed, butterfly weed?

00:31:25 Speaker 1

Milkweed's beautiful.

00:31:25 Speaker 1

We used to make Christmas ornaments out of those.

00:31:28 Speaker 1

I always enjoy when you come.

00:31:30 Speaker 1

I'm going to go.

00:31:30 Speaker 2

Thank you for having me.

00:31:31 Speaker 1

Absolutely.

00:31:32 Speaker 1

I always enjoy when you come.

00:31:33 Speaker 1

I always learn something different.

00:31:35 Speaker 1

I didn't learn this time how to get rid of the ankle-biting insects, but I learned how to make good insects come into my area.

00:31:42 Speaker 2

Maybe we can do one on the nasty side of the gardening world.

00:31:46 Speaker 2

Invasives and bugs and insects.

00:31:48 Speaker 1

That sounds like about April.

00:31:50 Speaker 1

Yeah.

00:31:52 Speaker 1

Get them while they're young.

00:31:53 Speaker 1

Yeah.

00:31:53 Speaker 1

Yes.

00:31:55 Speaker 1

Okay, stay tuned for April.

00:31:56 Speaker 1

Thank you for joining us.

00:31:58 Speaker 1

I'm not going to clip my echinacea back.

00:32:00 Speaker 1

I'm going to get my hosta out of there, and I think I might go find one of those bright orange azaleas.

00:32:05 Speaker 2

Oh, they're gorgeous.

00:32:07 Speaker 2

Just stunning.

00:32:08 Speaker 1

Okay, well, in April, we'll have to talk about those, too.

00:32:10 Speaker 2

Great.

00:32:11 Speaker 1

Thank you for joining us.

00:32:12 Speaker 1

Laura Callahan, and your website is?

00:32:14 Speaker 2

In the Garden with Laura.

00:32:15 Speaker 1

We're going to be looking forward to this.

00:32:17 Speaker 1

Next time I see a hosta, I will think of you.

00:32:18 Speaker 2

Great, thank you.

00:32:21 Speaker 1

I hope the connections we've raised today stay with you as you engage your community through critters, companions, commerce, and agriculture.

00:32:28 Speaker 1

Join me again next week.

00:32:30 Speaker 1

We'll make some more connections.

00:32:32 Speaker 2

This program is a production.

00:32:34 Speaker 1

Of Raising Connections Media Company, hosted and produced by Rashan Mayer and edited and mixed by Robin Temple.