{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":40.04,"endTime":44.54,"body":"Welcome to Intentional Teaching, a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":40.04,"endTime":44.54,"body":"podcast aimed at educators to help them develop"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":44.54,"endTime":50.87,"body":"foundational teaching skills and explore new ideas"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":44.54,"endTime":50.87,"body":"and teaching. I'm your host, Derek Bruff. I hope"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":50.87,"endTime":55.79,"body":"this podcast helps you be more intentional in how"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":50.87,"endTime":55.79,"body":"you teach and in how you develop as a teacher over"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":55.79,"endTime":61.459999999999994,"body":"time. I realized recently that I hadn't yet produced"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":55.79,"endTime":61.459999999999994,"body":"an episode of this podcast focused on Universal"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":61.459999999999994,"endTime":67.46000000000001,"body":"Design for Learning.UDL is a framework for improving"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":61.459999999999994,"endTime":67.46000000000001,"body":"learning for all students. Based on the science of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":67.46000000000001,"endTime":72.97999999999999,"body":"how humans learn, it involves providing students"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":67.46000000000001,"endTime":72.97999999999999,"body":"with multiple means of engagement, of representation"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":73.34,"endTime":78.02,"body":"and of action and expression. We've mentioned the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":73.34,"endTime":78.02,"body":"framework on the show from time to time, and I"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":78.02,"endTime":83.93,"body":"thought it was time to dig in a little deeper."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":78.02,"endTime":83.93,"body":"Naturally, I thought of inviting Thomas J. Tobin on"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":83.93,"endTime":89.36,"body":"the podcast. Tom helped to found the University of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":83.93,"endTime":89.36,"body":"Wisconsin, Madison Center for Teaching, Learning and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":89.36,"endTime":95.15,"body":"Mentoring, and he is an internationally recognized"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":89.36,"endTime":95.15,"body":"scholar, author and speaker on technology mediated"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":95.15,"endTime":101.96,"body":"education. Tom is the co-author with Kirsten Behling"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":95.15,"endTime":101.96,"body":"of the 2018 book Reach Everyone. Teach Everyone"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":102.06,"endTime":108.38,"body":"Universal Design for Learning in Higher Education."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":102.06,"endTime":108.38,"body":"One of the best introductions to UDL around. And"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":108.38,"endTime":113.86,"body":"then I saw a social media post of Tom's mentioning"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":108.38,"endTime":113.86,"body":"that he was working on a new book about UDL at scale,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":113.87,"endTime":118.46,"body":"and I knew I had to talk to him about that. Before"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":113.87,"endTime":118.46,"body":"we get to the interview, I'd like to remind"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":118.46,"endTime":123.23,"body":"listeners that they can support the intentional"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":118.46,"endTime":123.23,"body":"Teaching podcast on Patreon for just a few bucks a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":123.23,"endTime":128.87,"body":"month. You can help defray production costs for the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":123.23,"endTime":128.87,"body":"podcast and you get access to Patreon only"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":128.87,"endTime":135.11,"body":"interviews and bonus clips. See the show notes for a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":128.87,"endTime":135.11,"body":"link to sign up. Okay. In my conversation with Tom"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":135.11,"endTime":141.05,"body":"Tobin, we talk about the plus one principle as a way"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":135.11,"endTime":141.05,"body":"to understand and get started with UDL. The"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":141.05,"endTime":146.95999999999998,"body":"relationship between UDL and the myth of learning"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":141.05,"endTime":146.95999999999998,"body":"styles, the value that UDL can have on student"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":146.95999999999998,"endTime":153.07999999999998,"body":"retention and student success,strategies that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":146.95999999999998,"endTime":153.07999999999998,"body":"academic leaders or would be leaders can use to help"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":153.07999999999998,"endTime":156.26,"body":"their campuses adopt UDL practices and much more."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":159.53,"endTime":164.99,"body":"Tom, I am very excited to have you on the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":159.53,"endTime":164.99,"body":"Intentional Teaching podcast. I know we're going"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":164.99,"endTime":170.3,"body":"have a great conversation today and thank you for"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":164.99,"endTime":170.3,"body":"being here and sharing what you're going to share"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":170.3,"endTime":171.68,"body":"about Universal Design for Learning."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":172.10000000000002,"endTime":175.73000000000002,"body":"Thank you very much, Derek. It's a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":172.10000000000002,"endTime":175.73000000000002,"body":"pleasure to be on the podcast with you. Thank you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":175.73000000000002,"endTime":177.98000000000002,"body":"for inviting me and listeners. Thanks for listening"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":175.73000000000002,"endTime":177.98000000000002,"body":"today."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":178.94,"endTime":185.08999999999997,"body":"Yes, always. Tom, I'm going to start"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":178.94,"endTime":185.08999999999997,"body":"with my usual opening question. Can you tell us"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":185.08999999999997,"endTime":188.60000000000002,"body":"about a time when you realized that you wanted to be"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":185.08999999999997,"endTime":188.60000000000002,"body":"an educator?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":189.01999999999998,"endTime":196.85000000000002,"body":"This goes back to me being five years"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":189.01999999999998,"endTime":196.85000000000002,"body":"old and in kindergarten and being in awe of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":196.85000000000002,"endTime":203.87,"body":"teachers, not just in my classroom, but all"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":196.85000000000002,"endTime":203.87,"body":"throughout the school. I thought this is a way that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":203.87,"endTime":211.45999999999998,"body":"people give back to their communities. It's a way"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":203.87,"endTime":211.45999999999998,"body":"that they keep in touch with scholarship and what's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":211.45999999999998,"endTime":217.37,"body":"going on in the world. And that was always a driver"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":211.45999999999998,"endTime":217.37,"body":"for me. I actually wanted to be an English professor"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":217.37,"endTime":223.76,"body":"when I was very little, and I was one of those"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":217.37,"endTime":223.76,"body":"strange people who actually kept that goal all the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":223.76,"endTime":231.17000000000002,"body":"way through. So, you know, did a high school degree"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":223.76,"endTime":231.17000000000002,"body":"and then four years later had an undergraduate"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":231.17000000000002,"endTime":236.54000000000002,"body":"degree in English literature as well as K-12"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":231.17000000000002,"endTime":236.54000000000002,"body":"teaching experience, then a master's degree in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":236.54000000000002,"endTime":242.60000000000002,"body":"English literature, and then a Ph.D. in 19th century"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":236.54000000000002,"endTime":242.60000000000002,"body":"British art history and literature. And only then"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":242.60000000000002,"endTime":250.07,"body":"did I discover there were no jobs in my field. But"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":242.60000000000002,"endTime":250.07,"body":"back it up for just a second. Yeah. With that K-12"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":250.07,"endTime":255.38,"body":"teaching certification and then the double major in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":250.07,"endTime":255.38,"body":"English and English education. That English"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":255.38,"endTime":261.56,"body":"education degree and my student teaching in middle"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":255.38,"endTime":261.56,"body":"school and high school prepared me for teaching in a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":261.56,"endTime":267.71,"body":"way that no, you know, semester long teaching fellow"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":261.56,"endTime":267.71,"body":"training ever could. I understood the theories"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":267.71,"endTime":274.19,"body":"behind why different tactics actually worked and how"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":267.71,"endTime":274.19,"body":"to experiment in my own classroom, and especially"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":274.19,"endTime":280.58,"body":"since there weren't jobs for graduates with PhDs in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":274.19,"endTime":280.58,"body":"19th century Brit art, history and literature. My"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":280.58,"endTime":287.75,"body":"career path kind of went naturally into educational"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":280.58,"endTime":287.75,"body":"development, where I now teach teachers how to teach."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":289.34,"endTime":295.07,"body":"And I'm glad you do. Okay, so you were"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":289.34,"endTime":295.07,"body":"planning to be a teacher from way back and now you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":295.07,"endTime":304.84999999999997,"body":"teach teachers? I think I first saw you at the 2015"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":295.07,"endTime":304.84999999999997,"body":"Pod Network conference. You were keynoting on"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":304.84999999999997,"endTime":310.21999999999997,"body":"Universal Design for Learning, which is a topic"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":304.84999999999997,"endTime":310.21999999999997,"body":"we'll talk a lot about here today. And there were"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":310.21999999999997,"endTime":316.96999999999997,"body":"actually two things that that that stuck with me"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":310.21999999999997,"endTime":316.96999999999997,"body":"from that keynote. One was your fantastic mustache,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":317.63,"endTime":325.82,"body":"which I actually drew in my sketch notes for that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":317.63,"endTime":325.82,"body":"keynote. I don't often try to draw an image of the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":325.82,"endTime":331.46,"body":"speaker, but I couldn't resist with your mustache."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":325.82,"endTime":331.46,"body":"But the other was the plus one principle, which was"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":331.66999999999996,"endTime":337.88,"body":"kind of a shorthand. You used to help people"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":331.66999999999996,"endTime":337.88,"body":"understand universal design for learning. So what is"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":337.88,"endTime":342.16999999999996,"body":"the plus one? And it really has stuck with me. It's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":337.88,"endTime":342.16999999999996,"body":"given me kind of a starting point for a lot of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":342.16999999999996,"endTime":347.53999999999996,"body":"conversations with faculty over the years. So what"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":342.16999999999996,"endTime":347.53999999999996,"body":"is the plus one principle and why is it important?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":348.26,"endTime":352.58,"body":"Fantastic. Well, listeners, you can't"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":348.26,"endTime":352.58,"body":"see me, but I am a white man with grey hair and as"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":352.58,"endTime":358.58,"body":"Derek describes, a giant black mustache. And we're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":352.58,"endTime":358.58,"body":"talking about universal design for learning, which"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":358.58,"endTime":366.08,"body":"is giving people more than one way to get engaged"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":358.58,"endTime":366.08,"body":"with to take in information about and then practice"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":366.08,"endTime":372.16999999999996,"body":"with things they want to learn. So one of those"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":366.08,"endTime":372.16999999999996,"body":"concepts is doing visual description because we're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":372.16999999999996,"endTime":377.51,"body":"doing an audio podcast and giving all you listeners"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":372.16999999999996,"endTime":377.51,"body":"more than one way to engage or understand what's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":377.51,"endTime":385.37,"body":"going on. The official definition of universal"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":377.51,"endTime":385.37,"body":"design for learning that there are three principles"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":385.60999999999996,"endTime":392.24,"body":"to the way we put together our learning interactions,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":385.60999999999996,"endTime":392.24,"body":"and they correspond to roughly to three different"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":392.24,"endTime":399.2,"body":"chemical pathways that have to connect in our brains"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":392.24,"endTime":399.2,"body":"when we learn things, we have to have a reason why"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":399.2,"endTime":405.32,"body":"that's an affective, affective network of things. We"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":399.2,"endTime":405.32,"body":"have to have content to learn, and that's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":405.32,"endTime":412.09999999999997,"body":"recognition networks in our brains, and we have to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":405.32,"endTime":412.09999999999997,"body":"have a way to practice or a how, and that is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":412.09999999999997,"endTime":418.52,"body":"strategic networks and executive function. Now we"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":412.09999999999997,"endTime":418.52,"body":"can make a lot about the neuroscience of learning,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":418.94,"endTime":426.28999999999996,"body":"but I prefer to take that and try to simplify it a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":418.94,"endTime":426.28999999999996,"body":"little bit. The neuroscientists at CAST, what used"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":426.28999999999996,"endTime":430.82,"body":"to be called Centre for Applied Special Technology"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":426.28999999999996,"endTime":430.82,"body":"in Boston, now they've just shortened it down to the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":430.82,"endTime":431.71999999999997,"body":"acronym CAST."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":432.22999999999996,"endTime":433.09999999999997,"body":"So it's just CAST."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":433.13,"endTime":434.12,"body":"It's just CAST now."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":434.39,"endTime":437.81,"body":"Because that old one does sound like"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":434.39,"endTime":437.81,"body":"the evil corporation in a science fiction movie."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":438.15,"endTime":445.76,"body":"AI A little bit, yeah. So also they've"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":438.15,"endTime":445.76,"body":"expanded way beyond their initial research and by"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":445.76,"endTime":450.83,"body":"doing so, it's not just those three principles"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":445.76,"endTime":450.83,"body":"anymore. It's three principles that are underpinned"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":450.83,"endTime":457.72999999999996,"body":"by nine different guidelines according to different"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":450.83,"endTime":457.72999999999996,"body":"types of learning, and each of those nine guidelines"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":457.72999999999996,"endTime":466.25,"body":"is further split up into a total of 31 check points,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":457.72999999999996,"endTime":466.25,"body":"each one a very specific type of neurological"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":466.49,"endTime":473.03,"body":"approach to the learning interactions and the design"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":466.49,"endTime":473.03,"body":"of them. Now, if you've got that much complexity and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":473.03,"endTime":479.47999999999996,"body":"you say, Hey people, here's universal design for"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":473.03,"endTime":479.47999999999996,"body":"learning folks are going to get lost, right? So"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":479.47999999999996,"endTime":484.43,"body":"they're all backed by research, but it's easy to get"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":479.47999999999996,"endTime":484.43,"body":"overwhelmed and it's difficult to find starting"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":484.43,"endTime":491.81,"body":"points.in a book that I wrote in 2018 with Kirsten"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":484.43,"endTime":491.81,"body":"Behling, it's called Reach Everyone Teach Everyone"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":491.81,"endTime":500.06,"body":"Universal Design for Learning in Higher Education. I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":491.81,"endTime":500.06,"body":"advocated for understanding UDL, at least at first,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":500.41999999999996,"endTime":508.7,"body":"from a plus one perspective, meaning if there's one"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":500.41999999999996,"endTime":508.7,"body":"way for interactions to happen now and we all think"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":508.7,"endTime":514.73,"body":"about interactions between learners and materials,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":508.7,"endTime":514.73,"body":"right? But also if there's one way for things to go"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":515.12,"endTime":519.35,"body":"with learners talking to other learners with"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":515.12,"endTime":519.35,"body":"learners, connecting to instructors, learne and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":519.35,"endTime":524.33,"body":"support staff learners and their communities, if"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":519.35,"endTime":524.33,"body":"there's one way that you're asking people to do that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":524.33,"endTime":531.53,"body":"now, make at least one more way. And what that does"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":524.33,"endTime":531.53,"body":"is it takes all of that complexity and turns it into"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":531.5600000000001,"endTime":539.3000000000001,"body":"do one thing. What that does is we're trying to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":531.5600000000001,"endTime":539.3000000000001,"body":"lower access barriers for folks. And that was where"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":539.3000000000001,"endTime":545.63,"body":"we started in the conversation. And it's part of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":539.3000000000001,"endTime":545.63,"body":"research that we're doing now as well."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":545.99,"endTime":552.32,"body":"That's great. And you gave the example"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":545.99,"endTime":552.32,"body":"on the fly of of describing your own facial hair."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":552.98,"endTime":558.5,"body":"For our listeners, what are maybe one or two other"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":552.98,"endTime":558.5,"body":"examples of how an instructor in a college setting"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":558.5,"endTime":560.2700000000001,"body":"might implement a plus one principle?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":561.95,"endTime":568.73,"body":"So, for example, if you're thinking"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":561.95,"endTime":568.73,"body":"about how your students get engaged, like college"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":568.73,"endTime":573.0200000000001,"body":"instructors, when's the last time you heard students"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":568.73,"endTime":573.0200000000001,"body":"say, I'm so sorry I didn't do the reading or I'm not"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":573.0200000000001,"endTime":580.25,"body":"prepared? That's usually not out of laziness. In"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":573.0200000000001,"endTime":580.25,"body":"fact, I don't believe there are any lazy students"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":580.25,"endTime":589.34,"body":"out there. What I see are busy students, and when we"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":580.25,"endTime":589.34,"body":"think about engagement, it can be as simple as for"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":589.34,"endTime":594.74,"body":"all of the activities you ask your students to do,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":589.34,"endTime":594.74,"body":"like doing reading, to prepare, doing some homework"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":594.74,"endTime":602.1500000000001,"body":"problems, engaging with their colleagues on labs or"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":594.74,"endTime":602.1500000000001,"body":"practices, give them a time estimate for how long"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":602.1500000000001,"endTime":609.11,"body":"that's going to take. This allows students to plan"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":602.1500000000001,"endTime":609.11,"body":"what's one thing that as human beings, we are all"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":609.11,"endTime":616.5500000000001,"body":"terrible at doing? Derek. Time management, right. So."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":609.11,"endTime":616.5500000000001,"body":"And you think, Oh yeah, my students are really bad"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":616.5500000000001,"endTime":622.88,"body":"at time management. It's us too. So the challenge"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":616.5500000000001,"endTime":622.88,"body":"becomes, okay, give people a little bit of an"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":622.88,"endTime":628.9100000000001,"body":"understanding of how they could estimate their time"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":622.88,"endTime":628.9100000000001,"body":"or plan for it. And listeners, this isn't science."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":629.69,"endTime":636.38,"body":"The back of the envelope way to do this. You do the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":629.69,"endTime":636.38,"body":"thing and then tell your students about half again"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":636.38,"endTime":642.2900000000001,"body":"as much more time. So if it took you 30 minutes to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":636.38,"endTime":642.2900000000001,"body":"read that article, tell your students it'll take"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":642.2900000000001,"endTime":648.6500000000001,"body":"them about 45 and you'll be roughly right. So that's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":642.2900000000001,"endTime":648.6500000000001,"body":"one way that you can lower those access barriers."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":648.6800000000001,"endTime":655.88,"body":"Another way that we can practice, plus one is when"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":648.6800000000001,"endTime":655.88,"body":"students are showing what they know. How many times"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":655.88,"endTime":662.8100000000001,"body":"do you ask students to write an essay or write a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":655.88,"endTime":662.8100000000001,"body":"report? Could you grade if the students took their"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":662.8100000000001,"endTime":668.0,"body":"cell, their cell phone cameras and turned them on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":662.8100000000001,"endTime":668.0,"body":"and said, Hey, I'm going to pretend I'm a news"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":668.0,"endTime":674.6600000000001,"body":"reporter and give you the same information? Could"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":668.0,"endTime":674.6600000000001,"body":"you grade that using the same criteria? If so, give"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":674.6600000000001,"endTime":678.86,"body":"your students that option. It'll make grading a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":674.6600000000001,"endTime":678.86,"body":"little bit more fun for you, and they'll have"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":678.86,"endTime":683.3000000000001,"body":"choices so that they can choose them in the moment."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":678.86,"endTime":683.3000000000001,"body":"So that's a little bit of plus one as well."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":683.89,"endTime":688.88,"body":"Mm. I like that. And I, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":683.89,"endTime":688.88,"body":"think a lot about multimodal assignments where"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":688.88,"endTime":693.9200000000001,"body":"perhaps the goal of the assignment is to work in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":688.88,"endTime":693.9200000000001,"body":"some other modality. But one thing I think that is"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":693.9200000000001,"endTime":700.19,"body":"important about what you said is if I can grade this"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":693.9200000000001,"endTime":700.19,"body":"work using the same rubric or whatever mechanisms"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":700.19,"endTime":704.4200000000001,"body":"I'm using, regardless of modality, then just give"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":700.19,"endTime":704.4200000000001,"body":"students the option"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":704.72,"endTime":711.11,"body":"Precisely. And I teach freshmen comp."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":704.72,"endTime":711.11,"body":"So in a composition course, can I tell if my"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":711.11,"endTime":716.99,"body":"students have one inch margins and times new Roman"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":711.11,"endTime":716.99,"body":"12 point font, double spaced all that if they did a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":716.99,"endTime":724.13,"body":"video. No. So if the format is the assignment. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":716.99,"endTime":724.13,"body":"I don't give my students choices. At the same time"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":724.64,"endTime":730.76,"body":"when they're practicing, if I just want to see can"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":724.64,"endTime":730.76,"body":"you do a thesis sentence that has details, evidence"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":730.76,"endTime":734.3000000000001,"body":"and examples to support it? Heck yes. I give them"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":730.76,"endTime":734.3000000000001,"body":"those kinds of options."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":734.8100000000001,"endTime":741.95,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so, so that's a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":734.8100000000001,"endTime":741.95,"body":"little bit about UDL kind of through this kind of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":741.95,"endTime":749.0600000000001,"body":"introductory lens of of plus one. A lot has changed"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":741.95,"endTime":749.0600000000001,"body":"in higher ed since you gave that keynote in 2015."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":750.11,"endTime":757.01,"body":"There's the COVID pandemic of course, and all of the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":750.11,"endTime":757.01,"body":"increased use of non-traditional teaching modalities"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":757.46,"endTime":762.4100000000001,"body":"that emerged from it. But I was also I was looking"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":757.46,"endTime":762.4100000000001,"body":"over my sketch notes from your keynote, and one of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":762.4100000000001,"endTime":769.4300000000001,"body":"the things that you said back in 2015, and that's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":762.4100000000001,"endTime":769.4300000000001,"body":"nine years ago as we record this, I guess it was"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":769.5500000000001,"endTime":775.0400000000001,"body":"late 2015, so was eight and a half years ago. You"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":769.5500000000001,"endTime":775.0400000000001,"body":"said we're running out of traditional students in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":775.0400000000001,"endTime":782.0600000000001,"body":"higher ed. And so so I'll just kind of frame it up"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":775.0400000000001,"endTime":782.0600000000001,"body":"that way and ask you what how is higher ed's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":782.0600000000001,"endTime":787.88,"body":"conversation around Universal Design for learning"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":782.0600000000001,"endTime":787.88,"body":"changed in the last eight and a half years or so?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":788.0300000000001,"endTime":794.6600000000001,"body":"It's been a wonderful, wonderful"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":788.0300000000001,"endTime":794.6600000000001,"body":"progression. If we recognize the power dynamics at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":794.6600000000001,"endTime":801.38,"body":"play in K-12 higher ed, an industry where"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":794.6600000000001,"endTime":801.38,"body":"instructors, trainers, facilitators, support"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":801.38,"endTime":808.01,"body":"staffers, they have varying levels of comfort and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":801.38,"endTime":808.01,"body":"authority, both explicitly and implicitly. So our"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":808.01,"endTime":813.26,"body":"student body and our set of common practices. Those"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":808.01,"endTime":813.26,"body":"are also constantly changing thanks to demographic"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":813.26,"endTime":818.84,"body":"shifts, demands in different fields of study,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":813.26,"endTime":818.84,"body":"legislative changes, advances in the scholarship of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":818.84,"endTime":824.21,"body":"teaching and learning or SoTL. So we're also"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":818.84,"endTime":824.21,"body":"recognizing that making individual changes in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":824.21,"endTime":831.83,"body":"classrooms and learning spaces goes only so far. The"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":824.21,"endTime":831.83,"body":"UDL guidelines are right now being re-envisioned to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":831.83,"endTime":839.0,"body":"specifically address systemic barriers to equitable"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":831.83,"endTime":839.0,"body":"learning opportunities and outcomes. The 3.0 version"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":839.0,"endTime":846.11,"body":"of the UDL guidelines is slated to be released in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":839.0,"endTime":846.11,"body":"early 2024, and it has a theme of rising to equity."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":847.07,"endTime":853.3100000000001,"body":"That conversation about recognizing and addressing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":847.07,"endTime":853.3100000000001,"body":"systemic barriers isn't just one that CAST is doing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":853.3100000000001,"endTime":859.1,"body":"either. Many of my colleagues and I have been"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":853.3100000000001,"endTime":859.1,"body":"refocusing our work to build on the one person"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":859.1,"endTime":865.94,"body":"making good changes. Progress that we've seen over"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":859.1,"endTime":865.94,"body":"the past get this 40 years that UDL has been around."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":866.39,"endTime":872.7800000000001,"body":"I'm now working with provosts, presidents, boards of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":866.39,"endTime":872.7800000000001,"body":"trustees to help entire institutions to adopt"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":872.7800000000001,"endTime":878.6600000000001,"body":"inclusive design practices that lower barriers and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":872.7800000000001,"endTime":878.6600000000001,"body":"help more students stick with their studies. It's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":878.6600000000001,"endTime":884.87,"body":"become both a social good argument and a bottom line"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":878.6600000000001,"endTime":884.87,"body":"dollars and cents one as well."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":886.3100000000001,"endTime":893.21,"body":"Is that because it means essentially"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":886.3100000000001,"endTime":893.21,"body":"maybe not more enrollment, but more student success?"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":893.21,"endTime":899.99,"body":"More student retention? You can then translate into"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":893.21,"endTime":899.99,"body":"enrollment, which can generate lots of efficiencies."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":900.0500000000001,"endTime":906.8000000000001,"body":"Derek, you've hit it right on the head."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":900.0500000000001,"endTime":906.8000000000001,"body":"The one place that we have collectively, not yet"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":906.8000000000001,"endTime":914.1800000000001,"body":"looked for students is the students who are already"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":906.8000000000001,"endTime":914.1800000000001,"body":"with us. We've spent all kinds of time, energy,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":914.1800000000001,"endTime":919.88,"body":"money and effort on trying to bring in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":914.1800000000001,"endTime":919.88,"body":"nontraditional students or people who have some"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":919.88,"endTime":926.0,"body":"college but didn't complete or nighttime students or"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":919.88,"endTime":926.0,"body":"weekend students or international students. Right."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":926.24,"endTime":932.87,"body":"We're always trying to bring new people in the door."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":926.24,"endTime":932.87,"body":"We haven't looked at a lot is the people who are"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":932.87,"endTime":939.8000000000001,"body":"already with us. How many of them stay with us and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":932.87,"endTime":939.8000000000001,"body":"complete their degrees or their credentials? How"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":939.8000000000001,"endTime":945.95,"body":"many of them stick with us and would say that it was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":939.8000000000001,"endTime":945.95,"body":"a good experience. We all know what the freshman"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":945.95,"endTime":951.98,"body":"cliff is. Listeners, right? If you bring in 2000"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":945.95,"endTime":951.98,"body":"first-year students, by the time it's second year,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":951.98,"endTime":959.09,"body":"you maybe have 1600 of them. Where did the other 400"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":951.98,"endTime":959.09,"body":"go? Number one reason why students drop out"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":959.09,"endTime":967.34,"body":"financial.UDL can't touch that. Number two reason"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":959.09,"endTime":967.34,"body":"why students drop out. Time and universal designed"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":967.34,"endTime":974.72,"body":"for learning is purposefully intended to help people"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":967.34,"endTime":974.72,"body":"lower those barriers so that they can make better"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":974.72,"endTime":982.19,"body":"use of their time and find more time for preparation,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":974.72,"endTime":982.19,"body":"study and support it in places and spaces where"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":982.19,"endTime":984.5600000000001,"body":"maybe they didn't have that experience before."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":986.69,"endTime":993.86,"body":"Yeah, and I had a guest on the podcast"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":986.69,"endTime":993.86,"body":"last year, Cathryn Friel, and she had done a study"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":993.86,"endTime":1001.6600000000001,"body":"of students with ADHD and how they navigated online"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":993.86,"endTime":1001.6600000000001,"body":"courses, and she talked about the kind of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1002.0500000000001,"endTime":1006.64,"body":"organizational schemes of an online course that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1002.0500000000001,"endTime":1006.64,"body":"would would cause some students kind of more trouble"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1006.64,"endTime":1012.1600000000001,"body":"than than others. And the way she framed it was, you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1006.64,"endTime":1012.1600000000001,"body":"know, do I want students to spend 30 minutes"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1012.19,"endTime":1017.86,"body":"figuring out where the assignment is and the things"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1012.19,"endTime":1017.86,"body":"I need for the assignment, or do I want to make that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1017.86,"endTime":1025.45,"body":"easy and and have them spend that 30 minutes doing"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1017.86,"endTime":1025.45,"body":"the assignment? Right. And so, particularly if some"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1025.45,"endTime":1030.28,"body":"small changes on our end can free up a lot of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1025.45,"endTime":1030.28,"body":"student time, that that argument made a lot of sense."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1030.29,"endTime":1037.36,"body":"And I'm hearing kind of a version of that with with"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1030.29,"endTime":1037.36,"body":"UDL right we're kind of if I'm a student and I I"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1037.36,"endTime":1042.8799999999999,"body":"know I could write this, you know, response paper."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1037.36,"endTime":1042.8799999999999,"body":"It was going to take me two and a half hours because"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1042.8799999999999,"endTime":1048.01,"body":"that's that's not a format I'm comfortable with. And"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1042.8799999999999,"endTime":1048.01,"body":"it's going to take me a lot more time if I can meet"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1048.01,"endTime":1051.73,"body":"the goals of the assignment by doing it through"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1048.01,"endTime":1051.73,"body":"audio or video. And it's going to take me half the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1051.73,"endTime":1057.67,"body":"time because I'm more comfortable with that modality,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1051.73,"endTime":1057.67,"body":"then that's that's the time savings, right, for that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1057.67,"endTime":1058.06,"body":"student."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1058.54,"endTime":1064.33,"body":"And when we think about the design of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1058.54,"endTime":1064.33,"body":"our systems, you'll hear a complaint, Oh, that's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1064.33,"endTime":1070.6,"body":"handholding. You're dumbing it down. You're making"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1064.33,"endTime":1070.6,"body":"it easier for the students. You are if you're doing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1070.6,"endTime":1077.1699999999998,"body":"it wrong. So when we talk about universal design for"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1070.6,"endTime":1077.1699999999998,"body":"learning and scaling that up, we're really talking"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1077.1699999999998,"endTime":1084.04,"body":"about keeping the conceptual rigor at a high and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1077.1699999999998,"endTime":1084.04,"body":"challenging level. Make sure that your field is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1084.46,"endTime":1089.83,"body":"telling students new things and new skills that they"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1084.46,"endTime":1089.83,"body":"didn't know before that they will struggle with and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1089.83,"endTime":1097.84,"body":"help them through that struggle. What we want to do"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1089.83,"endTime":1097.84,"body":"is lower the process rigor,the the need for getting"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1097.84,"endTime":1102.37,"body":"through the hoops like you were just describing to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1097.84,"endTime":1102.37,"body":"just get into the conversation in the first place or"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1102.37,"endTime":1107.97,"body":"do the activity. So, you know, when we say we're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1102.37,"endTime":1107.97,"body":"guarding the tower, right, you know, oh, you're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1107.98,"endTime":1113.62,"body":"dumbing it down and all that. Yeah. If you're making"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1107.98,"endTime":1113.62,"body":"the the actual content simpler or you're reducing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1113.62,"endTime":1119.02,"body":"the level of challenge, yeah, that's a bad way to go."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1113.62,"endTime":1119.02,"body":"So what we want to do is keep that challenge level"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1119.02,"endTime":1124.84,"body":"high and reduce the barrier to entry into the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1119.02,"endTime":1124.84,"body":"activity or conversation in the first place."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1126.1299999999999,"endTime":1132.73,"body":"Well, I know you're working on a new"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1126.1299999999999,"endTime":1132.73,"body":"book that that touches on these themes. I think I"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1132.73,"endTime":1139.1799999999998,"body":"saw that your book title is at least tentatively UDL"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1132.73,"endTime":1139.1799999999998,"body":"at scale, adopting universal design for learning"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1139.1799999999998,"endTime":1145.33,"body":"across higher Education. What motivated you to start"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1139.1799999999998,"endTime":1145.33,"body":"this book at this time and what do you what do you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1145.33,"endTime":1146.35,"body":"hope that it will accomplish?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1146.9199999999998,"endTime":1152.77,"body":"Well, the UDL framework has been shown"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1146.9199999999998,"endTime":1152.77,"body":"to lower barriers and increase learner persistence,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1152.77,"endTime":1160.48,"body":"retention and satisfaction in individual K-12"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1152.77,"endTime":1160.48,"body":"college and university classrooms. Recently, large"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1160.48,"endTime":1166.09,"body":"scale studies are demonstrating that learners who"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1160.48,"endTime":1166.09,"body":"have a sense of voice choice, agency safety and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1166.09,"endTime":1171.58,"body":"belonging in their overall programs of study,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1166.09,"endTime":1171.58,"body":"they're significantly more likely to complete their"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1171.58,"endTime":1177.9099999999999,"body":"educational goals successfully. Kirsten Behling and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1171.58,"endTime":1177.9099999999999,"body":"I reported on this trend in our 2018 book Reach"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1177.9099999999999,"endTime":1183.1299999999999,"body":"Everyone, Teach Everyone. And there have been dozens"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1177.9099999999999,"endTime":1183.1299999999999,"body":"of large scale studies and campus wide"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1183.1299999999999,"endTime":1189.52,"body":"implementations since then. So inclusive design"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1183.1299999999999,"endTime":1189.52,"body":"practices like UDL, they're most effective when we"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1189.52,"endTime":1196.72,"body":"adopt them broadly at the systemic level. Much of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1189.52,"endTime":1196.72,"body":"the current literature about UDL focuses on steps"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1196.72,"endTime":1202.6,"body":"that individual instructors and designers can take,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1196.72,"endTime":1202.6,"body":"and the field of campus wide and systemic UDL"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1202.6,"endTime":1208.48,"body":"application is relatively young.theorists and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1202.6,"endTime":1208.48,"body":"practitioners are creating new approaches right now"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1208.48,"endTime":1214.21,"body":"to help colleges and universities discover the most"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1208.48,"endTime":1214.21,"body":"needed places in their services and offerings. Where"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1214.21,"endTime":1221.11,"body":"if we lower barriers, it will have the greatest"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1214.21,"endTime":1221.11,"body":"initial impact. So my UDL at Scale book is intended"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1221.11,"endTime":1226.87,"body":"to provide campus leaders with practical approaches"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1221.11,"endTime":1226.87,"body":"for system wide adoption of inclusive design"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1226.87,"endTime":1233.77,"body":"practices, using data and evidence from those recent"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1226.87,"endTime":1233.77,"body":"large scale studies, also using data from campus"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1233.77,"endTime":1239.5,"body":"wide UDL adoption efforts, as well as proven project"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1233.77,"endTime":1239.5,"body":"management, change management and leadership vision"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1239.5,"endTime":1246.1299999999999,"body":"techniques and tools. The book is intended for UDL"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1239.5,"endTime":1246.1299999999999,"body":"practitioners who want to spearhead wider efforts to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1246.1299999999999,"endTime":1251.47,"body":"lower access barriers for learners across their"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1246.1299999999999,"endTime":1251.47,"body":"institutions through the establishment of new"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1251.47,"endTime":1255.76,"body":"institutional, cultural, practical and policy based"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1251.47,"endTime":1255.76,"body":"structures."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1257.0,"endTime":1264.55,"body":"Okay, so let's talk about moving to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1257.0,"endTime":1264.55,"body":"scale. All right. So if you're perhaps a faculty"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1264.55,"endTime":1269.62,"body":"member, an academic leader, and you'd like to move"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1264.55,"endTime":1269.62,"body":"your department or maybe your whole campus towards"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1269.62,"endTime":1274.99,"body":"greater adoption of UDL, where where might you start?"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1269.62,"endTime":1274.99,"body":"What are some what are some ways to get going on"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1274.99,"endTime":1275.1699999999998,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1275.9499999999998,"endTime":1279.06,"body":"Excellent question. Okay, listeners."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1275.9499999999998,"endTime":1279.06,"body":"Imagine"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1279.06,"endTime":1282.28,"body":"I ask a guy writing a book on this"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1279.06,"endTime":1282.28,"body":"topic. Oh, he has a lot of ideas right now."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1282.37,"endTime":1289.75,"body":"All right, listeners, imagine now 200"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1282.37,"endTime":1289.75,"body":"students seated in a theater style lecture hall."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1290.35,"endTime":1296.11,"body":"They all have their laptops open. And while I would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1290.35,"endTime":1296.11,"body":"never advocate for large enrollment courses as an"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1296.11,"endTime":1302.62,"body":"effective way to teach or learn. This is part of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1296.11,"endTime":1302.62,"body":"reality on many of our campuses, right? So when we"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1302.62,"endTime":1310.24,"body":"think about UDL at scale, we can talk in two ways."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1302.62,"endTime":1310.24,"body":"First, about what happens when we make bigger units"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1310.24,"endTime":1316.81,"body":"like those large enrollment courses. And second,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1310.24,"endTime":1316.81,"body":"what happens when we move beyond those units into"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1316.81,"endTime":1324.61,"body":"the level of entire systems whole departments,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1316.81,"endTime":1324.61,"body":"schools, colleges, divisions, universities? What"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1324.61,"endTime":1334.72,"body":"changes at larger scales for UDL in both of those"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1324.61,"endTime":1334.72,"body":"senses of scaling up.five things. One, we adopt"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1334.72,"endTime":1340.27,"body":"fewer broader, more strategic goals, and we measure"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1334.72,"endTime":1340.27,"body":"them in terms of overall learner persistence,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1340.27,"endTime":1345.79,"body":"retention and satisfaction like we were talking"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1340.27,"endTime":1345.79,"body":"about earlier. UDL increases learner persistence."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1345.79,"endTime":1351.1299999999999,"body":"This means more students who are there on day one"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1345.79,"endTime":1351.1299999999999,"body":"are still there to complete the final examination or"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1351.1299999999999,"endTime":1356.47,"body":"turn in their course project. We know that UDL has a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1351.1299999999999,"endTime":1356.47,"body":"positive effect on persistence because of large"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1356.47,"endTime":1362.08,"body":"scale research at individual schools like Colorado"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1356.47,"endTime":1362.08,"body":"State University has a beautiful study on this, as"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1362.08,"endTime":1367.96,"body":"well as meta analyses of the literature across"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1362.08,"endTime":1367.96,"body":"smaller scale studies. We also know that UDL"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1368.1399999999999,"endTime":1373.6899999999998,"body":"increases learner retention. More learners take a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1368.1399999999999,"endTime":1373.6899999999998,"body":"course with me and then come back next term to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1373.8999999999999,"endTime":1380.1399999999999,"body":"finish their educations with you. We know that UDL"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1373.8999999999999,"endTime":1380.1399999999999,"body":"increases student retention. That's the holy Grail"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1380.1399999999999,"endTime":1385.8999999999999,"body":"of every provost and registrar. Because of its"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1380.1399999999999,"endTime":1385.8999999999999,"body":"positive effect on that freshman cliff, where"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1385.8999999999999,"endTime":1391.24,"body":"students enter their studies and they stop out for"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1385.8999999999999,"endTime":1391.24,"body":"various reasons by lowering barriers and by"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1391.24,"endTime":1398.56,"body":"normalizing help seeking behaviors, UDL at scale"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1391.24,"endTime":1398.56,"body":"affects student retention numbers and UDL increases"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1398.56,"endTime":1404.32,"body":"learner satisfaction. Study after study shows"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1398.56,"endTime":1404.32,"body":"learners who feel those strong senses of here they"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1404.32,"endTime":1410.35,"body":"are again belonging, choice, controls, safety and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1404.32,"endTime":1410.35,"body":"agency. They're more than five times as likely to be"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1410.35,"endTime":1416.08,"body":"satisfied with their experiences in college and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1410.35,"endTime":1416.08,"body":"university ity. Not only do satisfied students stick"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1416.11,"endTime":1422.02,"body":"with us in greater numbers, they're more likely to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1416.11,"endTime":1422.02,"body":"advocate that others come study with us as well. So"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1422.02,"endTime":1428.1999999999998,"body":"this impact of UDL, especially when it's adopted as"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1422.02,"endTime":1428.1999999999998,"body":"part of a larger push for equitable and inclusive"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1428.1999999999998,"endTime":1435.37,"body":"education, is the most easily measured at scale with"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1428.1999999999998,"endTime":1435.37,"body":"student rating and exit interview instruments and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1435.37,"endTime":1439.81,"body":"things like that. By the way, listeners, if you're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1435.37,"endTime":1439.81,"body":"in a state where legislative changes have made"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1439.81,"endTime":1445.6,"body":"certain words not too terribly easy to say, like"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1439.81,"endTime":1445.6,"body":"diversity and inclusion, talk about access and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1445.6,"endTime":1452.6799999999998,"body":"citizens rights and you'll get to the same place. So"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1445.6,"endTime":1452.6799999999998,"body":"one was fewer broader strategic goals. Two is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1452.6799999999998,"endTime":1459.46,"body":"individual applications give way to systemic"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1452.6799999999998,"endTime":1459.46,"body":"practices instead of doing changes one at a time,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1459.46,"endTime":1465.31,"body":"and then repeating that person to person course to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1459.46,"endTime":1465.31,"body":"course service to service. We change the structures"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1465.31,"endTime":1473.23,"body":"themselves so that everyone adheres to simpler but"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1465.31,"endTime":1473.23,"body":"broader inclusive techniques. So listeners, imagine"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1473.23,"endTime":1479.83,"body":"that there are 20 steps to perfecting UDL. There"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1473.23,"endTime":1479.83,"body":"aren't. But think along with me for a minute. Most"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1479.83,"endTime":1486.49,"body":"of our efforts to date have been to train a small,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1479.83,"endTime":1486.49,"body":"willing group of colleagues to reach step 20, whi"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1486.49,"endTime":1491.35,"body":"the majority of our instructors and staff members"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1486.49,"endTime":1491.35,"body":"and administrators, they're at step zero. Or maybe"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1491.35,"endTime":1499.03,"body":"step one. When we think about UDL at scale, we"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1491.35,"endTime":1499.03,"body":"design our systems and aim our advocacy efforts"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1499.21,"endTime":1506.59,"body":"toward getting everyone in the institution to step"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1499.21,"endTime":1506.59,"body":"three, we allocate money, time, talent, political"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1506.59,"endTime":1512.1399999999999,"body":"capital toward those efforts at the level of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1506.59,"endTime":1512.1399999999999,"body":"entire organization. And the push for change comes"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1512.1399999999999,"endTime":1519.73,"body":"from the top down rather than as a grassroots effort."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1512.1399999999999,"endTime":1519.73,"body":"So, Derek, one was fewer and strategic goals. Two"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1519.73,"endTime":1525.9399999999998,"body":"was individual applications going to systemic"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1519.73,"endTime":1525.9399999999998,"body":"practices. Three is harnessing the power of defaults."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1526.4499999999998,"endTime":1531.55,"body":"It's amazing how few people raise a fist and say,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1526.4499999999998,"endTime":1531.55,"body":"You can't make me do that. I have academic freedom"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1531.79,"endTime":1538.6299999999999,"body":"when everyone follows inclusive practices because of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1531.79,"endTime":1538.6299999999999,"body":"the way systems and services are designed. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1538.6299999999999,"endTime":1544.24,"body":"listeners, imagine a dialog box in a learning"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1538.6299999999999,"endTime":1544.24,"body":"management system that warns alternative text field"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1544.24,"endTime":1551.32,"body":"is required for an image that's being uploaded. So"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1544.24,"endTime":1551.32,"body":"reminding people, training people, pleading with"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1551.32,"endTime":1556.87,"body":"them to remember to practice inclusive techniques"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1551.32,"endTime":1556.87,"body":"consistently, that's doomed to be ever only a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1556.87,"endTime":1561.51,"body":"partial solution to a challenge that requires near"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1556.87,"endTime":1561.51,"body":"perfect adoption if it's going to be effective."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1562.0,"endTime":1567.46,"body":"There's already whole shelves worth of legal"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1562.0,"endTime":1567.46,"body":"requirements related to making materials accessible,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1567.46,"endTime":1573.79,"body":"and our colleges and universities continue to be"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1567.46,"endTime":1573.79,"body":"sued for inaccessible materials. Right? Everyone"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1573.79,"endTime":1579.25,"body":"agrees taking the time to make things accessible is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1573.79,"endTime":1579.25,"body":"the right thing to do. We can look at the sheer"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1579.25,"endTime":1585.4299999999998,"body":"enormity of retrofitting all of that inaccessible"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1579.25,"endTime":1585.4299999999998,"body":"content and will suffer from analysis paralysis, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1585.4299999999998,"endTime":1591.6399999999999,"body":"we won't even start. So rather than trust that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1585.4299999999998,"endTime":1591.6399999999999,"body":"everyone will do the right thing, we assign"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1591.6399999999999,"endTime":1597.83,"body":"resources to create systems that just require good"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1591.6399999999999,"endTime":1597.83,"body":"practices like that required all the text field on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1598.1499999999999,"endTime":1603.46,"body":"on the screen. I had you imagine or a workflow in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1598.1499999999999,"endTime":1603.46,"body":"your media services area that requires the staff to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1603.46,"endTime":1608.6799999999998,"body":"create captions for all the videos produced through"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1603.46,"endTime":1608.6799999999998,"body":"that office. This part of UDL at scale helps"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1608.6799999999998,"endTime":1614.29,"body":"normalize the work of making engagement"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1608.6799999999998,"endTime":1614.29,"body":"representation and action choices. It moves"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1614.29,"endTime":1620.29,"body":"accessibility and inclusion from, Oh, that's extra"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1614.29,"endTime":1620.29,"body":"effort to: That's just our everyday work. So four"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1620.29,"endTime":1625.24,"body":"out of five we go beyond the classroom and formal"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1620.29,"endTime":1625.24,"body":"teaching and learning interactions. We start to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1625.24,"endTime":1630.9099999999999,"body":"think of the entire ecosystem of the institution and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1625.24,"endTime":1630.9099999999999,"body":"identify where learning is happening during"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1630.9099999999999,"endTime":1637.3899999999999,"body":"learner's time away from our formal learning spaces"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1630.9099999999999,"endTime":1637.3899999999999,"body":"and when they're working alongside support staff"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1637.3899999999999,"endTime":1643.81,"body":"like librarians, tutors, counselors and so on. So"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1637.3899999999999,"endTime":1643.81,"body":"UDL had its beginnings in the classroom. It's a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1643.81,"endTime":1649.4499999999998,"body":"framework for lowering barriers across various"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1643.81,"endTime":1649.4499999999998,"body":"learning interactions in which our campuses engage,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1650.23,"endTime":1655.51,"body":"and there's lots of learning interactions happening"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1650.23,"endTime":1655.51,"body":"in spaces far beyond the classroom lab and lecture"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1655.51,"endTime":1659.83,"body":"hall. Can you think of anything that might pop into"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1655.51,"endTime":1659.83,"body":"mind? Derek"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1661.06,"endTime":1664.54,"body":"I mean, it depends a lot on the campus"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1661.06,"endTime":1664.54,"body":"and kind of what that campus culture is like. But,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1665.1399999999999,"endTime":1671.1999999999998,"body":"you know, there's everything from office hours to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1665.1399999999999,"endTime":1671.1999999999998,"body":"student organizations to committees that I've I've"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1671.1999999999998,"endTime":1672.85,"body":"been on with students in the past. Right."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1673.87,"endTime":1680.11,"body":"Oh, fantastic. And I'll encourage you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1673.87,"endTime":1680.11,"body":"to even expand beyond that. So think about your"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1680.11,"endTime":1686.1699999999998,"body":"advisors. They're teaching students how to navigate"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1680.11,"endTime":1686.1699999999998,"body":"the systems of your college or your university. Your"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1686.1699999999998,"endTime":1691.72,"body":"tutoring staff are teaching study skills, your"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1686.1699999999998,"endTime":1691.72,"body":"mental health counselors, they're teaching coping"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1691.72,"endTime":1697.48,"body":"strategies, your librarians are teaching how to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1691.72,"endTime":1697.48,"body":"assess and work with information. So wherever"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1697.48,"endTime":1704.32,"body":"students interact with support services, think of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1697.48,"endTime":1704.32,"body":"how those are teaching and learning interactions. If"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1704.32,"endTime":1709.72,"body":"students are learning something, even if it's not"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1704.32,"endTime":1709.72,"body":"part of the academic curriculum, we can apply the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1709.72,"endTime":1715.78,"body":"principles of UDL to lower barriers, increase"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1709.72,"endTime":1715.78,"body":"engagement and support, learner voice choice and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1715.78,"endTime":1723.1899999999998,"body":"agency. And then number five, we have to weigh"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1715.78,"endTime":1723.1899999999998,"body":"academic freedom against access and predictability."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1723.1999999999998,"endTime":1728.56,"body":"Derek, you talked about this earlier. Part of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1723.1999999999998,"endTime":1728.56,"body":"lowering barriers for learners is not making them"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1728.56,"endTime":1734.4099999999999,"body":"learn new patterns, systems and ways of being when"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1728.56,"endTime":1734.4099999999999,"body":"they move from one part of our environment to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1734.4099999999999,"endTime":1739.6,"body":"another. So our instructors do have the right to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1734.4099999999999,"endTime":1739.6,"body":"teach in their fields in the manner they deem best."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1739.6,"endTime":1745.4499999999998,"body":"That's the essence of academic freedom. So as we"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1739.6,"endTime":1745.4499999999998,"body":"think about UDL at scale, we should be especially"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1745.4499999999998,"endTime":1752.3799999999999,"body":"wary of framing UDL as a set of prescriptive actions"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1745.4499999999998,"endTime":1752.3799999999999,"body":"that force instructors all to do exactly the same"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1752.3799999999999,"endTime":1759.1599999999999,"body":"thing. UDL is all about choices, so it's doubly"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1752.3799999999999,"endTime":1759.1599999999999,"body":"ironic to say you must when we're talking about the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1759.1599999999999,"endTime":1765.1299999999999,"body":"content, the knowledge, the skills in the fields"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1759.1599999999999,"endTime":1765.1299999999999,"body":"that we teach. At the same time, we should say you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1765.1299999999999,"endTime":1771.61,"body":"must, when it comes to making our various systems"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1765.1299999999999,"endTime":1771.61,"body":"predictable, using the same color scheme, general"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1771.61,"endTime":1776.74,"body":"layouts, button styles, text names for common"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1771.61,"endTime":1776.74,"body":"controls across our Web sites, learning management"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1776.74,"endTime":1781.9299999999998,"body":"systems, other touchpoints. It goes beyond just the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1776.74,"endTime":1781.9299999999998,"body":"identity manual and glossary that your marketing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1781.9299999999998,"endTime":1788.3799999999999,"body":"team is created too. This speaks to having federated"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1781.9299999999998,"endTime":1788.3799999999999,"body":"style vocabulary and operational parameters for all"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1788.3799999999999,"endTime":1795.79,"body":"the base systems on which people build. So our i.t."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1788.3799999999999,"endTime":1795.79,"body":"Colleagues are allies in this conversation. By the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1795.79,"endTime":1801.31,"body":"way, we already have predictable systems for our"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1795.79,"endTime":1801.31,"body":"physical environments. They're called classrooms and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1801.31,"endTime":1807.34,"body":"they all look and operate roughly the same except"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1801.31,"endTime":1807.34,"body":"for labs and other special needs situations. And a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1807.34,"endTime":1812.32,"body":"splendid example is the work that the University of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1807.34,"endTime":1812.32,"body":"Cincinnati did to customize all of its student"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1812.32,"endTime":1818.59,"body":"facing tools to have the same look and feel. They"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1812.32,"endTime":1818.59,"body":"started with an electronic accessibility policy and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1818.59,"endTime":1824.26,"body":"they worked outward from those principles. Along the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1818.59,"endTime":1824.26,"body":"way, they discovered that UDL was a framework that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1824.26,"endTime":1830.6499999999999,"body":"fit all of the needs that that policy expressed.now,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1824.26,"endTime":1830.6499999999999,"body":"especially because some colleagues can mistake"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1830.6499999999999,"endTime":1836.6799999999998,"body":"consistent and predictable access to systems and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1830.6499999999999,"endTime":1836.6799999999998,"body":"tools for an encroachment on academic freedom. It's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1836.6799999999998,"endTime":1842.74,"body":"totally not. It's important for UDL at scale that we"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1836.6799999999998,"endTime":1842.74,"body":"get support for these requirements from our"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1842.74,"endTime":1848.9499999999998,"body":"administration, faculty, Senate, academic staff,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1842.74,"endTime":1848.9499999999998,"body":"governance and other campus oversight bodies. So"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1848.9499999999998,"endTime":1854.98,"body":"those are five different ways that we can think"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1848.9499999999998,"endTime":1854.98,"body":"about UDL at scale fewer broader, more strategic"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1854.98,"endTime":1861.4299999999998,"body":"goals, individual applications, giving way to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1854.98,"endTime":1861.4299999999998,"body":"systemic practices, harnessing the power of defaults,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1861.9099999999999,"endTime":1867.46,"body":"moving beyond the classroom and weighing academic"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1861.9099999999999,"endTime":1867.46,"body":"freedom against access and predictability. I'll be"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1867.46,"endTime":1872.26,"body":"expanding on all of these basics in that new book,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1867.46,"endTime":1872.26,"body":"using examples from colleagues who have actually"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1872.26,"endTime":1872.98,"body":"done them."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1873.6399999999999,"endTime":1877.35,"body":"That's great. I love that Tom and I are."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1879.6999999999998,"endTime":1882.97,"body":"I feel like there's a whole conversation about"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1879.6999999999998,"endTime":1882.97,"body":"academic freedom we could have and I'm not going to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1882.97,"endTime":1888.9399999999998,"body":"have on the podcast. But I do feel like that is"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1882.97,"endTime":1888.9399999999998,"body":"sometimes brought out in ways that are slightly"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1888.9399999999998,"endTime":1897.34,"body":"inappropriate to to give cover for, for perhaps less"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1888.9399999999998,"endTime":1897.34,"body":"than professional practices. And so I think I tend"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1897.34,"endTime":1902.9499999999998,"body":"to take a more narrow definition of academic freedom,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1897.34,"endTime":1902.9499999999998,"body":"and I think it's more helpful that way. But I love"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1902.9499999999998,"endTime":1908.83,"body":"the, you know, the thinking about changing the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1902.9499999999998,"endTime":1908.83,"body":"defaults, thinking about changing the systems and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1908.83,"endTime":1915.59,"body":"structures and even something you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1908.83,"endTime":1915.59,"body":"classrooms as a place where we have kind of a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1915.6399999999999,"endTime":1921.6999999999998,"body":"standard interface for learning, right? Many"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1915.6399999999999,"endTime":1921.6999999999998,"body":"campuses, a lot of classrooms look very similar. And"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1921.6999999999998,"endTime":1925.24,"body":"even if it's a little bit different, it has some"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1921.6999999999998,"endTime":1925.24,"body":"kind of basic structures that you would expect,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1925.24,"endTime":1929.29,"body":"right? There's a chalkboard or a whiteboard, there's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1925.24,"endTime":1929.29,"body":"a front of the room, there's a bunch of chairs."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1929.29,"endTime":1936.34,"body":"Right. But I think about, you know, even as a as a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1929.29,"endTime":1936.34,"body":"left handed individual, me going into a classroom,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1936.34,"endTime":1941.6499999999999,"body":"hoping maybe there's a left handed writing desk"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1936.34,"endTime":1941.6499999999999,"body":"somewhere in there as a student and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1943.1799999999998,"endTime":1948.73,"body":"as as hopeless as that search often was. Right."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1943.1799999999998,"endTime":1948.73,"body":"That's a very small example that's been around for"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1948.73,"endTime":1955.54,"body":"decades of a little bit of structural change that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1948.73,"endTime":1955.54,"body":"makes it a little bit easier for some students to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1955.54,"endTime":1957.31,"body":"access the learning environment, right?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1957.61,"endTime":1961.4499999999998,"body":"Absolutely. And that's actually a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1957.61,"endTime":1961.4499999999998,"body":"really good example of universal design in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1961.4499999999998,"endTime":1966.82,"body":"physical or built environment that if every"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1961.4499999999998,"endTime":1966.82,"body":"classroom has a couple of left handed desks, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1966.82,"endTime":1970.6299999999999,"body":"don't have to go searching one out. You just expect"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":1966.82,"endTime":1970.6299999999999,"body":"that it's there."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1971.3799999999999,"endTime":1975.73,"body":"Yeah, Yeah. And so I can imagine"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1971.3799999999999,"endTime":1975.73,"body":"thinking about, you know, what if we had other types"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1975.73,"endTime":1982.4199999999998,"body":"of seating, right, for folks who might not do well"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1975.73,"endTime":1982.4199999999998,"body":"with a traditional, you know, classroom chair of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1982.4199999999998,"endTime":1988.21,"body":"sorts. Right. And and, you know, once you you could"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1982.4199999999998,"endTime":1988.21,"body":"fix that problem. Right? Let's say you've got some"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1988.21,"endTime":1993.61,"body":"students who would like some seating options for"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1988.21,"endTime":1993.61,"body":"various physical reasons. You could try to fix that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1993.61,"endTime":1998.86,"body":"problem classroom by classroom, or you can make a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1993.61,"endTime":1998.86,"body":"change to your classroom furniture purchasing so"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1998.86,"endTime":2003.6599999999999,"body":"that it's kind of standard practice to have a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1998.86,"endTime":2003.6599999999999,"body":"variety of seating in every classroom on campus. And"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2003.6599999999999,"endTime":2007.83,"body":"maybe you don't change that overnight, right? It may"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2003.6599999999999,"endTime":2007.83,"body":"take a few cycles of furniture replacement before"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2007.83,"endTime":2014.58,"body":"you get to something quite universal. But that kind"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2007.83,"endTime":2014.58,"body":"of change at the structure or policy level, kind of,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2014.8799999999999,"endTime":2020.6399999999999,"body":"as you say, even at the default level at a system"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2014.8799999999999,"endTime":2020.6399999999999,"body":"wide, can have huge impacts across many, many, many"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2020.6399999999999,"endTime":2025.4399999999998,"body":"classrooms. And I can imagine similar things for the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2020.6399999999999,"endTime":2025.4399999999998,"body":"other learning environments that we're in, whether"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2025.4399999999998,"endTime":2027.36,"body":"they're face to face or online or something else."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2027.72,"endTime":2031.59,"body":"That is exactly right. You've got it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2027.72,"endTime":2031.59,"body":"very well now."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2032.22,"endTime":2039.57,"body":"Well, I want to end with a question"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2032.22,"endTime":2039.57,"body":"that actually posed on Blue Sky several weeks ago."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2040.4099999999999,"endTime":2044.1899999999998,"body":"And you you would you weighed in with a response."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2040.4099999999999,"endTime":2044.1899999999998,"body":"And I want to ask you to elaborate a little bit. And"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2044.1899999999998,"endTime":2049.59,"body":"I think it might tie together some of these ideas."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2044.1899999999998,"endTime":2049.59,"body":"So last year, I was listening to an episode of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2049.59,"endTime":2055.65,"body":"another podcast called Limed Teaching with a twist"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2049.59,"endTime":2055.65,"body":"from the good folks at Elon University. And that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2055.65,"endTime":2060.09,"body":"episode was looking at accessibility in online"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2055.65,"endTime":2060.09,"body":"courses. So they were thinking about that online"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2060.09,"endTime":2067.32,"body":"environment. And one of the speakers mentioned"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2060.09,"endTime":2067.32,"body":"asking their students via survey, How do you learn"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2067.32,"endTime":2074.07,"body":"best? And one student responded according to what"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2067.32,"endTime":2074.07,"body":"the professor said on this podcast. I learn best by"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2074.07,"endTime":2079.02,"body":"talking, and I took that to mean through discussion,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2074.07,"endTime":2079.02,"body":"right? That's kind of where I learn best, how I"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2079.02,"endTime":2084.99,"body":"learn best. And as someone who's had to kind of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2079.02,"endTime":2084.99,"body":"fight against the learning styles myth for more than"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2084.99,"endTime":2091.92,"body":"a decade now, that smelled like someone kind of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2084.99,"endTime":2091.92,"body":"owning their learning style, right? I'm a verbal"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2091.92,"endTime":2100.47,"body":"learner. And so but on the other hand, well, from a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2091.92,"endTime":2100.47,"body":"UDL perspective, how do you make sense of a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2100.47,"endTime":2104.8199999999997,"body":"student's expressed learning strengths like this"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2100.47,"endTime":2104.8199999999997,"body":"case."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2105.12,"endTime":2109.92,"body":"Who I love this? Question And it's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2105.12,"endTime":2109.92,"body":"also a splendid place to wrap up our conversation."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2110.16,"endTime":2118.74,"body":"So let's unpack three things together. One, learners"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2110.16,"endTime":2118.74,"body":"are good at expressing their preferences, but"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2118.74,"endTime":2124.3199999999997,"body":"they're fluid, right? So we know that students,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2118.74,"endTime":2124.3199999999997,"body":"we've got lots of data that show that students are"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2124.3199999999997,"endTime":2130.23,"body":"actually pretty bad at predicting how well they"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2124.3199999999997,"endTime":2130.23,"body":"learn active learning. They kind of hate it, but it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2130.23,"endTime":2136.65,"body":"is the most effective when we talk, when we talk"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2130.23,"endTime":2136.65,"body":"about retaining concepts and practices. This, by the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2136.65,"endTime":2145.77,"body":"way, is why Learning Styles listeners don't exist."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2136.65,"endTime":2145.77,"body":"We aren't exclusively or primarily locked in to one"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2145.77,"endTime":2152.0699999999997,"body":"sort of input channel for information for our whole"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2145.77,"endTime":2152.0699999999997,"body":"lives. If I'm, say, a visual learner, does that mean"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2152.0699999999997,"endTime":2159.0299999999997,"body":"I can't learn by hearing information not at all. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2152.0699999999997,"endTime":2159.0299999999997,"body":"our learning strengths and preferences change based"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2159.0299999999997,"endTime":2164.0099999999998,"body":"on our circumstances. What seems to have worked"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2159.0299999999997,"endTime":2164.0099999999998,"body":"before? Even how much sleep we got the night before?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2164.73,"endTime":2169.68,"body":"Yes, students are bad at knowing their strengths and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2164.73,"endTime":2169.68,"body":"learning situations, but so are all of us"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2169.68,"endTime":2177.96,"body":"instructors and designers too. This brings us to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2169.68,"endTime":2177.96,"body":"unpacking number two: Two,patterns are meaningful,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2177.96,"endTime":2184.38,"body":"but we have to uncover them afresh. Every time The"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2177.96,"endTime":2184.38,"body":"instructor who asks How do you learn best is engaged"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2184.38,"endTime":2191.46,"body":"in what we call differentiated instruction or D-I."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2184.38,"endTime":2191.46,"body":"In other words, they're finding out what preferences"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2191.46,"endTime":2198.72,"body":"and patterns this group of learners right now seems"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2191.46,"endTime":2198.72,"body":"to cluster around. And then the instructors adjust"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2198.72,"endTime":2204.54,"body":"their approach to fit some of those patterns"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2198.72,"endTime":2204.54,"body":"wherever it's possible. This is different from UDL"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2204.54,"endTime":2209.88,"body":"in that it's a response to a specific group of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2204.54,"endTime":2209.88,"body":"learners, and it requires instructors to make"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2209.88,"endTime":2217.83,"body":"changes in the moment. DI is a splendid approach to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2209.88,"endTime":2217.83,"body":"teaching and applying even a little bit of it helps"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2217.83,"endTime":2224.13,"body":"us to get to know our learners and respond to them"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2217.83,"endTime":2224.13,"body":"in supportive ways. So the question might raise a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2224.13,"endTime":2229.3199999999997,"body":"learning styles response. At the same time, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2224.13,"endTime":2229.3199999999997,"body":"instructor can probably glean good patterns from"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2229.3199999999997,"endTime":2236.22,"body":"those responses when taken in the aggregate, but"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2229.3199999999997,"endTime":2236.22,"body":"it's not UDL. And that leads us to unpacking Part"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2236.22,"endTime":2245.7599999999998,"body":"three three. UDL is all about designing learning"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2236.22,"endTime":2245.7599999999998,"body":"interactions before we know who will be in them. We"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2245.7599999999998,"endTime":2250.71,"body":"assume that we're going to have variability among"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2245.7599999999998,"endTime":2250.71,"body":"our learners, among their levels of preparedness,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2250.71,"endTime":2256.74,"body":"familiarity with our concepts, social networks and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2250.71,"endTime":2256.74,"body":"support economic stability, physical and mental"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2256.74,"endTime":2264.0,"body":"abilities, you name it.So  we designed for the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2256.74,"endTime":2264.0,"body":"people at the margins rather than some mythical"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2264.0,"endTime":2271.41,"body":"average or typical learner, and we provide as much"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2264.0,"endTime":2271.41,"body":"voice agency safety and belonging as we can. That"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2271.41,"endTime":2276.69,"body":"way we've created learning spaces and interactions"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2271.41,"endTime":2276.69,"body":"that by design, lower access barriers and provide"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2276.69,"endTime":2284.61,"body":"multiple paths for learners. Fewer learners will"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2276.69,"endTime":2284.61,"body":"have to say, treat me differently. So to sum up, UDL"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2284.88,"endTime":2291.12,"body":"is not a magic wand that we wave and all"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2284.88,"endTime":2291.12,"body":"accommodations or adjustments based on groups of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2291.12,"endTime":2297.81,"body":"learners go away. Rather, we make those individual"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2291.12,"endTime":2297.81,"body":"in the moment adjustments less necessary in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2297.81,"endTime":2303.72,"body":"first place. And that's why I'm focused on helping"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2297.81,"endTime":2303.72,"body":"institutions design entire systems to lower barriers."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2304.2,"endTime":2310.74,"body":"UDL works best when it's not a one at a time effort"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2304.2,"endTime":2310.74,"body":"here and there, but it's just part of what we do at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2310.74,"endTime":2315.69,"body":"our institutions. So I've really enjoyed talking"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2310.74,"endTime":2315.69,"body":"with you and your listeners today, Derek and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2315.69,"endTime":2321.42,"body":"listeners. I'd love to hear your stories too, if"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2315.69,"endTime":2321.42,"body":"you'd like to connect, chat, or even have me as part"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2321.42,"endTime":2326.43,"body":"of your professional development efforts, you can"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2321.42,"endTime":2326.43,"body":"find my email, social links, books and speaking"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2326.43,"endTime":2332.04,"body":"brochure at Thomas J. Tobin dot com. I hope your"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2326.43,"endTime":2332.04,"body":"paths will be good ones everybody. So thanks."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2333.42,"endTime":2337.92,"body":"Thanks for coming on the podcast Tom,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2333.42,"endTime":2337.92,"body":"and we'll make sure to have a link to your website"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2337.92,"endTime":2342.2999999999997,"body":"and some of the other resources you in the show"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2337.92,"endTime":2342.2999999999997,"body":"notes for Easy Access. I really appreciate you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2342.2999999999997,"endTime":2343.77,"body":"taking this time. Thank so much."},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2343.92,"endTime":2346.0499999999997,"body":"Fabulous. Thank you, Derek. Take care,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Tobin","startTime":2343.92,"endTime":2346.0499999999997,"body":"everybody."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2353.85,"endTime":2358.47,"body":"That was Thomas J. Tobin, speaker,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2353.85,"endTime":2358.47,"body":"consultant and co-author of the book Reach Everyone"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2358.56,"endTime":2364.02,"body":"Teach Everyone Universal Design for Learning in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2358.56,"endTime":2364.02,"body":"Higher Education. Tom is a wealth of ideas and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2364.02,"endTime":2369.18,"body":"inspiration for instructors interested in UDL, and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2364.02,"endTime":2369.18,"body":"I'm very glad to know he's working with institutions"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2369.18,"endTime":2374.73,"body":"to bring these practices to scale to help more"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2369.18,"endTime":2374.73,"body":"students. Tom tells me he expects that the new book"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2374.73,"endTime":2380.79,"body":"will be available in spring or summer of 2025. If"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2374.73,"endTime":2380.79,"body":"you'd like more information on Tom and his work, see"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2380.79,"endTime":2385.65,"body":"the show notes to a link to his website. He's also"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2380.79,"endTime":2385.65,"body":"well worth following on social media for his lively"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2385.65,"endTime":2392.2799999999997,"body":"and useful posts. Intentional teaching is sponsored"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2385.65,"endTime":2392.2799999999997,"body":"by UPCEA, the Online and Professional Education"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2392.2799999999997,"endTime":2397.56,"body":"Association. In the show notes, you'll find a link"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2392.2799999999997,"endTime":2397.56,"body":"to the UPCEA website where you can find out about"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2397.56,"endTime":2402.81,"body":"their research, networking opportunities and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2397.56,"endTime":2402.81,"body":"professional development offerings. This episode of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2402.81,"endTime":2407.67,"body":"Intentional Teaching was produced and edited by me,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2402.81,"endTime":2407.67,"body":"Derek Bruff. See the show notes for links to my"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2407.67,"endTime":2413.0099999999998,"body":"website, the intentional teaching newsletter and my"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2407.67,"endTime":2413.0099999999998,"body":"Patreon where you can help support the show for just"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2413.0099999999998,"endTime":2418.41,"body":"a few bucks a month. If you found this or any"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2413.0099999999998,"endTime":2418.41,"body":"episode of intentional teaching useful, would you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2418.41,"endTime":2422.31,"body":"consider sharing it with a colleague? That would"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2418.41,"endTime":2422.31,"body":"mean a lot. As always, thanks for listening."}]}