{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":35.0,"endTime":35.29,"body":"..."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":40.849999999999994,"endTime":46.25,"body":"Welcome to Intentional Teaching, a podcast aimed at"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":40.849999999999994,"endTime":46.25,"body":"educators to help them develop foundational teaching"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":46.25,"endTime":52.81999999999999,"body":"skills and explore new ideas and teaching. I'm your"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":46.25,"endTime":52.81999999999999,"body":"host, Derek Bruff. I hope this podcast helps you be"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":52.81999999999999,"endTime":58.06999999999999,"body":"more intentional in how you teach and in how you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":52.81999999999999,"endTime":58.06999999999999,"body":"develop as a teacher over time. Way back on the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":58.06999999999999,"endTime":62.72,"body":"second episode of this podcast, I talked with Robert"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":58.06999999999999,"endTime":62.72,"body":"Cummings from the University of Mississippi's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":62.72,"endTime":68.0,"body":"Department of writing and rhetoric about the ways"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":62.72,"endTime":68.0,"body":"that generative AI might affect writing and the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":68.0,"endTime":74.93,"body":"teaching of writing. That episode aired November"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":68.0,"endTime":74.93,"body":"15th, 2022. Two whole weeks before ChatGPT was"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":74.93,"endTime":80.69,"body":"released to the public. How did Robert have anything"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":74.93,"endTime":80.69,"body":"to say about A.I. and writing before ChatGPT was"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":80.69,"endTime":85.85,"body":"released? That's because he and his colleagues in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":80.69,"endTime":85.85,"body":"writing and rhetoric had been experimenting with"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":85.85,"endTime":91.13,"body":"earlier versions of generative A.I. technologies for"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":85.85,"endTime":91.13,"body":"more than a year. As a result of those early"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":91.13,"endTime":95.53999999999999,"body":"experiments, DWR faculty have been consistently"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":91.13,"endTime":95.53999999999999,"body":"ahead of the curve when it comes to teaching and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":95.53999999999999,"endTime":102.14,"body":"learning and A.I.. I'm very excited to have another"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":95.53999999999999,"endTime":102.14,"body":"one of those DWR faculty on the podcast today. Marc"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":102.14,"endTime":107.14999999999999,"body":"Watkins is a lecturer in writing and rhetoric and an"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":102.14,"endTime":107.14999999999999,"body":"academic innovation fellow at the University of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":107.14999999999999,"endTime":112.31,"body":"Mississippi. I've been wanting to have Marc on the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":107.14999999999999,"endTime":112.31,"body":"podcast for a while now because his blog on A.I. and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":112.31,"endTime":118.82,"body":"education Rhetorica is must read, and because his"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":112.31,"endTime":118.82,"body":"A.I. workshops at the University of Mississippi have"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":118.82,"endTime":124.61,"body":"shown that, a, he knows more about A.I. and teaching"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":118.82,"endTime":124.61,"body":"than almost anyone, and b he has a gift for helping"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":124.61,"endTime":129.89,"body":"faculty and other instructors think deeply and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":124.61,"endTime":129.89,"body":"critically about the roles AI can play in teaching"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":129.89,"endTime":137.099,"body":"and learning. Marc has a new series on his blog"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":129.89,"endTime":137.099,"body":"called Beyond ChatGPT that explores the many ways"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":137.099,"endTime":142.889,"body":"that generative A.I. is affecting learning far"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":137.099,"endTime":142.889,"body":"beyond the now typical use of having ChatGPT write"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":142.889,"endTime":148.25900000000001,"body":"an essay on behalf of a student. And Marc and I sat"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":142.889,"endTime":148.25900000000001,"body":"down virtually to talk about those changes to the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":148.25900000000001,"endTime":149.369,"body":"learning landscape."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":151.649,"endTime":156.329,"body":"Marc, welcome to the podcast. I'm really glad to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":151.649,"endTime":156.329,"body":"have you here and to talk about A.I. with you on"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":156.329,"endTime":157.559,"body":"tape. Thanks for being here."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":158.459,"endTime":162.389,"body":"Thanks for having me, Derek. I'm"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":158.459,"endTime":162.389,"body":"excited to sit down, talk about AI with a person"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":162.389,"endTime":165.05900000000003,"body":"who's not going to be freaked out by it so much."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":166.159,"endTime":167.00900000000001,"body":"I try not to be."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":167.099,"endTime":167.99900000000002,"body":"[... ] have it too."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":168.539,"endTime":173.00900000000001,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. Well, before we jump into"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":168.539,"endTime":173.00900000000001,"body":"that, I'm going to ask my usual opening question."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":173.459,"endTime":177.149,"body":"Can you tell us about a time when you realized you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":173.459,"endTime":177.149,"body":"wanted to be an educator?"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":178.245,"endTime":183.91500000000002,"body":"Right. So the thing about being an"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":178.245,"endTime":183.91500000000002,"body":"educator for me was that my mother and father are"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":183.91500000000002,"endTime":191.175,"body":"both schoolteachers, and I, of course, rebelled very"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":183.91500000000002,"endTime":191.175,"body":"hard against that idea, to never had an idea or"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":191.175,"endTime":197.745,"body":"thought becoming a schoolteacher. But when I went to"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":191.175,"endTime":197.745,"body":"college, I was a nontraditional student. I went to"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":197.745,"endTime":203.89499999999998,"body":"night school, both at community college in central"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":197.745,"endTime":203.89499999999998,"body":"Missouri and later to a local University of Central"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":203.89499999999998,"endTime":210.675,"body":"Missouri State University. And I really became sort"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":203.89499999999998,"endTime":210.675,"body":"of enamored with this idea of how teachers are"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":210.675,"endTime":216.04500000000002,"body":"working with adult learners in many ways about"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":210.675,"endTime":216.04500000000002,"body":"reaching them. So that's how I basically started"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":216.04500000000002,"endTime":222.695,"body":"becoming interested in teaching, too, mostly. I"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":216.04500000000002,"endTime":222.695,"body":"probably could talk for hours about this, but, you"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":222.70499999999998,"endTime":226.30700000000002,"body":"know, a short little segue like that is probably"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":222.70499999999998,"endTime":226.30700000000002,"body":"helpful. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":226.387,"endTime":232.42700000000002,"body":"Okay. Okay. Well, thank you. S let's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":226.387,"endTime":232.42700000000002,"body":"talk about this series that you're doing on your"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":232.42700000000002,"endTime":237.527,"body":"newsletter right now, beyond ChatGPT. What led you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":232.42700000000002,"endTime":237.527,"body":"to start that series?"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":238.67000000000002,"endTime":246.98000000000002,"body":"Well, I started exploring about in"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":238.67000000000002,"endTime":246.98000000000002,"body":"February how students are being marketed, different"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":246.98000000000002,"endTime":253.75,"body":"types of generative AI tools on social media. I'm"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":246.98000000000002,"endTime":253.75,"body":"currently in the state of Mississippi. The state of"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":253.75,"endTime":261.05,"body":"Mississippi has banned TikTok on all counts. So that"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":253.75,"endTime":261.05,"body":"means that I can't pull up tik-tok on my university"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":261.05,"endTime":266.54,"body":"computer or university Wi-Fi service here too. But"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":261.05,"endTime":266.54,"body":"students just don't even worry about that. They just"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":266.54,"endTime":272.36,"body":"pull it up on the data on their phones. So there's a"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":266.54,"endTime":272.36,"body":"little bit of a divide already happening between the"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":272.36,"endTime":277.7,"body":"way students are being explore, being exposed to"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":272.36,"endTime":277.7,"body":"these different A.I. tools and how faculty aware of"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":277.7,"endTime":283.04,"body":"them. And I wanted to really just kind of explore"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":277.7,"endTime":283.04,"body":"this. And, you know, I went into it thinking it's"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":283.04,"endTime":289.73,"body":"just going to be about using AI to, you know, solve"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":283.04,"endTime":289.73,"body":"essay questions for you to do, write for you. And"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":289.73,"endTime":296.21,"body":"it's much deeper than that. And so that's really"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":289.73,"endTime":296.21,"body":"what became the series, too, is to move beyond just"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":296.41999999999996,"endTime":301.78,"body":"ChatGPT text generation software and to start"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":296.41999999999996,"endTime":301.78,"body":"thinking about how this is actually impacting"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":301.8,"endTime":309.91999999999996,"body":"learning as a whole in terms of reading, critical"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":301.8,"endTime":309.91999999999996,"body":"notetaking, research, tutoring, feedback. It's"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":309.91999999999996,"endTime":316.46,"body":"almost to the point where any type of human endeavor"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":309.91999999999996,"endTime":316.46,"body":"that we can do as teachers can be mimicked by"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":316.46,"endTime":323.3,"body":"generative A.I.. And that's what I want people to be"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":316.46,"endTime":323.3,"body":"kind of aware of. And when we talk, we know you've"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":323.3,"endTime":328.76,"body":"spoken a lot, too, with people as well about this"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":323.3,"endTime":328.76,"body":"generative AI. They usually associate that directly"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":328.76,"endTime":334.76,"body":"with ChatGPT. And I think it's very helpful for a"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":328.76,"endTime":334.76,"body":"faculty to move beyond that and start thinking about"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":334.76,"endTime":340.82,"body":"this as really a transformative technology. I hate"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":334.76,"endTime":340.82,"body":"using that word because it's very hyped, but it is"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":340.83,"endTime":345.14,"body":"transformative in terms of all these different use"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":340.83,"endTime":345.14,"body":"cases to become thinking about."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":346.125,"endTime":351.435,"body":"Well, and I think something I heard you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":346.125,"endTime":351.435,"body":"say many, many times over the last year is that it's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":351.435,"endTime":357.04499999999996,"body":"not just the tool ChatGPT. There are lots of other"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":351.435,"endTime":357.04499999999996,"body":"generative AI technologies that are going to be"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":357.04499999999996,"endTime":363.286,"body":"increasingly embedded in in all types of things that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":357.04499999999996,"endTime":363.286,"body":"we do. And so I think that was really important,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":363.286,"endTime":370.306,"body":"especially in like 2023, which is to say it's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":363.286,"endTime":370.306,"body":"Microsoft Copilot, it's Google Bard, It's it's, you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":370.306,"endTime":374.986,"body":"know, it's all these other things. It's not just one"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":370.306,"endTime":374.986,"body":"tool. But now what I'm hearing you say, it's not"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":374.986,"endTime":381.256,"body":"just text generation. It's not just can the tool"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":374.986,"endTime":381.256,"body":"answer an essay question, but there's a whole"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":381.256,"endTime":387.406,"body":"different set of functions involved in the learning"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":381.256,"endTime":387.406,"body":"process where these tools have a role to play,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":387.406,"endTime":391.096,"body":"whether it's a positive or a negative one. But"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":387.406,"endTime":391.096,"body":"they're they can touch on lots of things."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":391.865,"endTime":396.395,"body":"Absolutely. We're exiting the period"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":391.865,"endTime":396.395,"body":"of large language models, and now we're in the"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":396.395,"endTime":404.705,"body":"period of large multimodal models and multi modality"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":396.395,"endTime":404.705,"body":"does far more than just text. It does speech, audio"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":404.91499999999996,"endTime":412.565,"body":"music. It can do images and video. We even have"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":404.91499999999996,"endTime":412.565,"body":"examples of avatars that are being able to scan your"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":412.565,"endTime":419.04499999999996,"body":"face and your actual mannerisms and to mimic all of"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":412.565,"endTime":419.04499999999996,"body":"that as well. And that is what Openai recently"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":419.04499999999996,"endTime":424.47499999999997,"body":"announced, and Google recently announced with their"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":419.04499999999996,"endTime":424.47499999999997,"body":"new projects. For Openai. It was an upgrade to GPT"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":424.565,"endTime":431.885,"body":"four, which is going to be called GPT4o for omni and"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":424.565,"endTime":431.885,"body":"they are committed to release that as the upgrade to"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":431.885,"endTime":438.125,"body":"the free version of ChatGPT. So the fall comes"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":431.885,"endTime":438.125,"body":"around, you will have a free multimodal model with"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":438.125,"endTime":445.205,"body":"streaming audio and talking too. And I would really"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":438.125,"endTime":445.205,"body":"advise anyone to just look at some of the demos that"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":445.205,"endTime":451.53499999999997,"body":"Openai did that day too. There's there's hype, of"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":445.205,"endTime":451.53499999999997,"body":"course. But having someone talk to a voice that"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":451.53499999999997,"endTime":455.885,"body":"sounds in this case like Scarlett Johansson, which"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":451.53499999999997,"endTime":455.885,"body":"was part of the demo,that  they're navigating a lot"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":455.885,"endTime":463.505,"body":"of a lot of justifiably harsh feedback for because"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":455.885,"endTime":463.505,"body":"they didn't ask her consent to do so. But if you"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":463.505,"endTime":469.505,"body":"have that in your classroom, in your phones,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":463.505,"endTime":469.505,"body":"actually on to and scanning things, that's going to"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":469.505,"endTime":474.005,"body":"have some pretty major downstream effects for"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":469.505,"endTime":474.005,"body":"learning that we hadn't really thought about. And of"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":474.005,"endTime":478.145,"body":"course, some of this is going to be positive. We'd"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":474.005,"endTime":478.145,"body":"all be like completely, you know, black and white"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":478.145,"endTime":484.445,"body":"saying that this is going to just destroy education."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":478.145,"endTime":484.445,"body":"It's not. But what we do want is to think about the"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":484.445,"endTime":490.495,"body":"critical adoption of this technology. And as you"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":484.445,"endTime":490.495,"body":"would say, too, from your own work in this for the"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":490.505,"endTime":495.99899999999997,"body":"intentional technology in the classroom to actually"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":490.505,"endTime":495.99899999999997,"body":"be useful in that way. And unfortunately, we're just"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":495.99899999999997,"endTime":501.279,"body":"not really seeing that right now, in part because"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":495.99899999999997,"endTime":501.279,"body":"it's no one's real fault in terms of the people who"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":501.279,"endTime":505.959,"body":"are adopting it because they're just basically being"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":501.279,"endTime":505.959,"body":"on the receiving end of a firehose of all these"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":505.959,"endTime":508.299,"body":"different technical features, too. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":508.839,"endTime":515.1990000000001,"body":"Well, and let me do a quick firehose"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":508.839,"endTime":515.1990000000001,"body":"check, because I was I was traveling last week and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":515.1990000000001,"endTime":523.109,"body":"the week before. So and things change. But as we"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":515.1990000000001,"endTime":523.109,"body":"record this in late May 2024 the ChatGPT, the 4o,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":523.239,"endTime":528.6990000000001,"body":"the multimodal piece, is that available in the free"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":523.239,"endTime":528.6990000000001,"body":"version or is it just in the paid version right now?"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":529.539,"endTime":534.069,"body":"So this is what makes this even more"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":529.539,"endTime":534.069,"body":"complicated and ridiculous. It's available in both"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":534.069,"endTime":539.649,"body":"the paid version and the free version, but the"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":534.069,"endTime":539.649,"body":"multimodal features of streaming audio and video"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":539.649,"endTime":544.359,"body":"have not been turned on yet for either. So they were"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":539.649,"endTime":544.359,"body":"there for the demo where you could see this sort of"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":544.359,"endTime":545.469,"body":"streaming voice."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":546.399,"endTime":550.119,"body":"And that's where I'm holding the phone"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":546.399,"endTime":550.119,"body":"up, kind of walking around the room telling me what"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":550.119,"endTime":551.019,"body":"it sees. Right."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":551.139,"endTime":556.779,"body":"Yeah, exactly. Yeah. These two are"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":551.139,"endTime":556.779,"body":"having an actual conversation with the A.I."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":556.779,"endTime":562.989,"body":"generated voice as well. And that is something that"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":556.779,"endTime":562.989,"body":"supposedly during the summer, because we are"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":562.989,"endTime":570.009,"body":"recording right now and late May will be turned on"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":562.989,"endTime":570.009,"body":"in theory available to some degree to users for free."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":570.3190000000001,"endTime":575.259,"body":"They don't they're not saying how, you know, how"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":570.3190000000001,"endTime":575.259,"body":"much sort of bandwidth you get with a free version."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":575.259,"endTime":581.359,"body":"Right. My guess is with streaming audio and video,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":575.259,"endTime":581.359,"body":"it will probably be cut off within a few minutes and"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":581.379,"endTime":586.359,"body":"we'll have to probably pay to play after that. But"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":581.379,"endTime":586.359,"body":"yeah, yeah, it's going to be a very different fall."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":586.999,"endTime":593.9490000000001,"body":"Okay. Well, yeah, and I remember last"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":586.999,"endTime":593.9490000000001,"body":"summer in 2023, the conversations often it was"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":593.9490000000001,"endTime":598.989,"body":"somewhere around June, July, faculty started"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":593.9490000000001,"endTime":598.989,"body":"realizing, Oh, my assignments this fall might need"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":598.989,"endTime":604.488,"body":"to be rethought because of this text generation"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":598.989,"endTime":604.488,"body":"capability. And so now what I'm hearing is this is a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":604.488,"endTime":609.0260000000001,"body":"summer where we think about not just those"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":604.488,"endTime":609.0260000000001,"body":"assignments, not just the written assignments, but"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":609.0260000000001,"endTime":614.139,"body":"all the assignments as well as other parts of the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":609.0260000000001,"endTime":614.139,"body":"learning process need to be rethought. And so let me"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":614.139,"endTime":620.779,"body":"pull out one of those, because you've written about"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":614.139,"endTime":620.779,"body":"AI and reading. How might an AI reading assistant be"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":620.779,"endTime":624.139,"body":"useful in learning and how might it be perhaps"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":620.779,"endTime":624.139,"body":"problematic?"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":625.22,"endTime":628.9000000000001,"body":"Well, this was something that we"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":625.22,"endTime":628.9000000000001,"body":"tested here at the Department of Writing and"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":628.9000000000001,"endTime":635.63,"body":"Rhetoric at University of Mississippi, way back in."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":628.9000000000001,"endTime":635.63,"body":"I think, the fall of 2022. So to give you an idea of"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":635.63,"endTime":639.71,"body":"the landscape right before ChatGPT was really"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":635.63,"endTime":639.71,"body":"released, if you were on Twitter at that point in"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":639.71,"endTime":646.5200000000001,"body":"time, you had my condolences because it was crazy. I"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":639.71,"endTime":646.5200000000001,"body":"mean, Openai just released the API so that builders"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":646.5200000000001,"endTime":652.4000000000001,"body":"could actually build this. And we were following"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":646.5200000000001,"endTime":652.4000000000001,"body":"some grad students in California who were building a"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":652.4000000000001,"endTime":657.83,"body":"tool called Explain Paper. It was just two grad"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":652.4000000000001,"endTime":657.83,"body":"students and they had a very genuine use case to"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":657.83,"endTime":663.0200000000001,"body":"actually build this tool to help them parse through"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":657.83,"endTime":663.0200000000001,"body":"the dozens upon dozens of different research essays."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":663.0200000000001,"endTime":668.45,"body":"They were focused on too. One of the developers was"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":663.0200000000001,"endTime":668.45,"body":"a non-native English speaker as well. He was talking"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":668.45,"endTime":674.0300000000001,"body":"about how difficult it was for him to read. And so"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":668.45,"endTime":674.0300000000001,"body":"he developed a tool called Explain paper, which is"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":674.0300000000001,"endTime":680.5400000000001,"body":"just using Openai's API, and it would automatically"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":674.0300000000001,"endTime":680.5400000000001,"body":"summarize whatever digital document you uploaded to"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":680.57,"endTime":685.46,"body":"to your reading level. And there are different"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":680.57,"endTime":685.46,"body":"versions of that that quickly came down to another"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":685.46,"endTime":690.7700000000001,"body":"app called SciSpace, which does the same thing with"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":685.46,"endTime":690.7700000000001,"body":"different languages. So you can change around it too."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":690.89,"endTime":697.2800000000001,"body":"So, you know, it's sort of hard. The idea behind it"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":690.89,"endTime":697.2800000000001,"body":"is it's like a amazing universal translator, you"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":697.2800000000001,"endTime":703.938,"body":"know, having anything that would be able to be using"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":697.2800000000001,"endTime":703.938,"body":"the AI to scan it and be able to automatically"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":703.938,"endTime":709.8180000000001,"body":"summarize it, and also to have you interact with at"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":703.938,"endTime":709.8180000000001,"body":"your reading level. So any student with a"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":710.418,"endTime":715.3380000000001,"body":"neurodiverse learning disability in some ways too"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":710.418,"endTime":715.3380000000001,"body":"that would have issues with reading students or"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":715.3380000000001,"endTime":719.508,"body":"studying English as a second or third or fourth"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":715.3380000000001,"endTime":719.508,"body":"language would be interested in that too, or any"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":719.508,"endTime":724.6980000000001,"body":"language for that matter as well. And of course,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":719.508,"endTime":724.6980000000001,"body":"anyone who is just unprepared to actually go through"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":724.6980000000001,"endTime":730.248,"body":"the reading process and we tested this and it was"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":724.6980000000001,"endTime":730.248,"body":"amazing. Yes. The students that had those issues too"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":730.248,"endTime":735.618,"body":"they all reported this. This was an amazing thing"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":730.248,"endTime":735.618,"body":"too. And then the problem happened almost"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":735.618,"endTime":739.668,"body":"immediately when everyone else in the class that did"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":735.618,"endTime":739.668,"body":"not have this issue said, this is great, I never"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":739.668,"endTime":745.308,"body":"have to read ever again. And I said, Oh, no, wait,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":739.668,"endTime":745.308,"body":"wait, wait, wait. What do you mean? And they said,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":745.3380000000001,"endTime":752.3280000000001,"body":"you know, we don't have to use we don't have to go"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":745.3380000000001,"endTime":752.3280000000001,"body":"through these 17, 18 page PDFs you provide us for a"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":752.3280000000001,"endTime":758.028,"body":"class, we can just go load this up and becomes Cliff"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":752.3280000000001,"endTime":758.028,"body":"Notes on demand. I said, Well, wait, we don't want"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":758.028,"endTime":762.2280000000001,"body":"that to happen. What would happen as a teacher if I"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":758.028,"endTime":762.2280000000001,"body":"just took your essays and turned that into Cliff"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":762.2280000000001,"endTime":767.628,"body":"Notes on Demand and they said, You can't do that."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":762.2280000000001,"endTime":767.628,"body":"That would be part of your job. But we don't have"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":767.628,"endTime":772.998,"body":"any like, framework right now for this. For both"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":767.628,"endTime":772.998,"body":"teachers using this or students. So, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":772.998,"endTime":777.018,"body":"took that moment of class to kind of slow things"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":772.998,"endTime":777.018,"body":"down and talked to them about this and really"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":777.018,"endTime":781.488,"body":"starting to advocate for students to think about how"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":777.018,"endTime":781.488,"body":"they want to use these tools and how they want"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":781.788,"endTime":787.4580000000001,"body":"people who are in positions of power to be using"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":781.788,"endTime":787.4580000000001,"body":"these tools as well, too. And that's where this sort"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":787.4580000000001,"endTime":792.408,"body":"of reading example became something that was a"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":787.4580000000001,"endTime":792.408,"body":"little bit of a touchstone for a lot of folks,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":792.408,"endTime":797.8380000000001,"body":"because you would not normally think about text"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":792.408,"endTime":797.8380000000001,"body":"generation technology being used to read for you in"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":797.8380000000001,"endTime":802.13,"body":"some ways or offload the process of reading. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":797.8380000000001,"endTime":802.13,"body":"but it's there."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":802.7520000000001,"endTime":808.422,"body":"Right? And so so you were you were"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":802.7520000000001,"endTime":808.422,"body":"digging into that in 2022, right?"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":808.452,"endTime":809.942,"body":"Mm hmm. Yep."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":811.7520000000001,"endTime":815.6220000000001,"body":"One of the fun things about being at"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":811.7520000000001,"endTime":815.6220000000001,"body":"the University of Mississippi these past couple of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":815.6220000000001,"endTime":821.832,"body":"years is that our writing and rhetoric faculty have"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":815.6220000000001,"endTime":821.832,"body":"been ahead of the curve with the AI, the generative"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":821.9820000000001,"endTime":826.6320000000001,"body":"AI. A lot of us have gotten to learn from you, from"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":821.9820000000001,"endTime":826.6320000000001,"body":"your experiments,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":828.432,"endTime":834.162,"body":"even before ChatGPT was released to the public. So."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":828.432,"endTime":834.162,"body":"So what advice would you give the instructors now"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":834.162,"endTime":839.264,"body":"who are wanting to have students use these tools"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":834.162,"endTime":839.264,"body":"thoughtfully? Because now you, I think,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":839.264,"endTime":844.484,"body":"ExplainPaper's still around, but there's now lots of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":839.264,"endTime":844.484,"body":"ways you could, you know, give a PDF to an AI tool"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":844.484,"endTime":849.734,"body":"and have it summarize it for you or outline it for"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":844.484,"endTime":849.734,"body":"you, or give you the three most important takeaways,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":849.734,"endTime":855.6740000000001,"body":"or ask it what's unique about this, this argument"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":849.734,"endTime":855.6740000000001,"body":"right there? And you know, your mileage will vary"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":855.6740000000001,"endTime":862.648,"body":"with its accuracy, but I find that often when you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":855.6740000000001,"endTime":862.648,"body":"give a ChatGPT or similar tool, something to read it,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":862.798,"endTime":868.2080000000001,"body":"it, it has something to work from. And so its output"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":862.798,"endTime":868.2080000000001,"body":"is actually much more reliable than if you asked a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":868.2080000000001,"endTime":871.3280000000001,"body":"more kind of general question where it's just"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":868.2080000000001,"endTime":871.3280000000001,"body":"relying on its it's training."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":872.307,"endTime":876.197,"body":"It is, Yeah. It really does sort of"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":872.307,"endTime":876.197,"body":"ground the actual training, not the training data,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":876.197,"endTime":881.457,"body":"but it grounds the sort of context that you upload"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":876.197,"endTime":881.457,"body":"to it into it. And it has been, from my experience,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":881.457,"endTime":884.7270000000001,"body":"very accurate compared to just going to the actual"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":881.457,"endTime":884.7270000000001,"body":"base model."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":886.437,"endTime":890.967,"body":"Yeah, what to give faculty and this is kind of what"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":886.437,"endTime":890.967,"body":"the whole series is about. Like right now I'm just"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":890.967,"endTime":895.967,"body":"kind of I'm laying out the field and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":890.967,"endTime":895.967,"body":"there's a lot of authors that are just now"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":895.9770000000001,"endTime":902.157,"body":"publishing books out of the ChatGPT sort of era to"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":895.9770000000001,"endTime":902.157,"body":"think about this, and they're all sort of finding"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":902.157,"endTime":907.2270000000001,"body":"what I'm finding. You're finding too, is that what"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":902.157,"endTime":907.2270000000001,"body":"we have for advice is sort of like a moving target,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":907.2270000000001,"endTime":914.1270000000001,"body":"like it shifts constantly. I think what I'd like to"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":907.2270000000001,"endTime":914.1270000000001,"body":"explore the next time we bring our faculty together"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":914.1270000000001,"endTime":920.4870000000001,"body":"to do some development with them are ways we can"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":914.1270000000001,"endTime":920.4870000000001,"body":"develop intentional friction in the learning process."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":922.2270000000001,"endTime":926.187,"body":"The one thing about these tools, whether it's for"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":922.2270000000001,"endTime":926.187,"body":"reading assistance, for notetaking or for writing,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":926.4870000000001,"endTime":931.2570000000001,"body":"is that they offer the user a frictionless sort of"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":926.4870000000001,"endTime":931.2570000000001,"body":"experience, right? It's the least amount of work you"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":931.2570000000001,"endTime":934.8870000000001,"body":"have to get to an answer. It doesn't have the"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":931.2570000000001,"endTime":934.8870000000001,"body":"answers correct or not to. You're still going to be"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":934.8870000000001,"endTime":942.687,"body":"provided one from the technology and learning, if we"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":934.8870000000001,"endTime":942.687,"body":"do so properly, is about friction. And that's not a"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":942.687,"endTime":948.1170000000001,"body":"bad thing. It's not a negative thing. It is going to"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":942.687,"endTime":948.1170000000001,"body":"be challenging to some degrees. We don't want to"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":948.1170000000001,"endTime":955.287,"body":"make this so ridiculously hard that we change what"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":948.1170000000001,"endTime":955.287,"body":"it means to learn or write or raise the bar to some"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":955.947,"endTime":962.037,"body":"superhuman degree to try to keep track of ChatGPT."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":955.947,"endTime":962.037,"body":"We don't want that. We want to think about some"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":962.037,"endTime":967.287,"body":"intentional strategies that worked in the past that"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":962.037,"endTime":967.287,"body":"can slow this process down. So for reading, what"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":967.287,"endTime":974.307,"body":"that means is probably looking at close reading"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":967.287,"endTime":974.307,"body":"exercises, being able to annotate either with pen"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":974.307,"endTime":980.2470000000001,"body":"and paper or using some digital tools. Perusall is"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":974.307,"endTime":980.2470000000001,"body":"very good about social annotation. Hypothesis is"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":980.2470000000001,"endTime":985.9770000000001,"body":"also really good, too. Slowing some things down,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":980.2470000000001,"endTime":985.9770000000001,"body":"integrating that in part of the reading process to"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":985.9770000000001,"endTime":990.687,"body":"make it more active for the students too. Just like"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":985.9770000000001,"endTime":990.687,"body":"we would scaffold like a writing assignment or"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":990.687,"endTime":996.327,"body":"anything else we might want to think about"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":990.687,"endTime":996.327,"body":"scaffolding, some of these skills that we just have"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":996.9870000000001,"endTime":1003.287,"body":"for it as well. And I think that's very true with"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":996.9870000000001,"endTime":1003.287,"body":"reading. We've seen it also with the note taking"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1003.287,"endTime":1008.297,"body":"stuff too. You can record and transcribe lecture for"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1003.287,"endTime":1008.297,"body":"you too. And a lot of the marketing from social"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1008.297,"endTime":1014.5970000000001,"body":"media influencers says just lean back, never listen"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1008.297,"endTime":1014.5970000000001,"body":"to lecture again. The AI will do it for you. You"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1014.5970000000001,"endTime":1021.1370000000001,"body":"know, we don't we know from, you know, dozens upon"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1014.5970000000001,"endTime":1021.1370000000001,"body":"dozens of papers and years of research that just"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1021.1370000000001,"endTime":1027.107,"body":"plain lecture is usually the worst way to actually"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1021.1370000000001,"endTime":1027.107,"body":"impart knowledge into people, too. So maybe this"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1027.107,"endTime":1032.387,"body":"will be the helping sort of push to certain people"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1027.107,"endTime":1032.387,"body":"to get them to start thinking about not just"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1032.387,"endTime":1038.15,"body":"lecturing during that time period, but breaking"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1032.387,"endTime":1038.15,"body":"things up. But of course, when we start peeling this"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1038.15,"endTime":1042.1399999999999,"body":"back, it's like an onion. There are different layers"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1038.15,"endTime":1042.1399999999999,"body":"to it. Well, if we're going to change lecture, you"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1042.1399999999999,"endTime":1046.28,"body":"have to look at the physical space a lot of our"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1042.1399999999999,"endTime":1046.28,"body":"classes take. If we're actually teaching in person"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1046.6399999999999,"endTime":1050.84,"body":"these giant lecture halls, sometimes their chairs"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1046.6399999999999,"endTime":1050.84,"body":"are bolted down to the floors their desks are. You"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1050.84,"endTime":1058.19,"body":"can't move around in there too, so it limits what"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1050.84,"endTime":1058.19,"body":"you can actually do in that sort of regard. But yeah,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1058.52,"endTime":1062.84,"body":"it is definitely going to cause us to rethink more"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1058.52,"endTime":1062.84,"body":"than just assessments but learning itself."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1064.1,"endTime":1069.4099999999999,"body":"Right? And you know, there were these"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1064.1,"endTime":1069.4099999999999,"body":"moments in the last couple of years where the advent"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1069.4099999999999,"endTime":1073.6999999999998,"body":"of ChatGPT and similar tools as text generators"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1075.57,"endTime":1080.49,"body":"kind of shone a light on some forms of assessment"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1075.57,"endTime":1080.49,"body":"we've been using for a while that were perhaps"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1080.49,"endTime":1086.8899999999999,"body":"problematic anyway, they weren't ideals, and now"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1080.49,"endTime":1086.8899999999999,"body":"that the robot can do it and in a heartbeat, like we"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1086.8899999999999,"endTime":1092.1699999999998,"body":"really do need to move away from some of these forms"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1086.8899999999999,"endTime":1092.1699999999998,"body":"of assessment. And so I think this is also shining a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1092.1699999999998,"endTime":1097.36,"body":"light on other things that maybe we had taken for"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1092.1699999999998,"endTime":1097.36,"body":"granted, right? Students famously don't want to do"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1097.36,"endTime":1098.35,"body":"the reading, right?"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1098.35,"endTime":1099.61,"body":"Yes, famously."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1099.79,"endTime":1104.59,"body":"Maybe because in some cases they don't"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1099.79,"endTime":1104.59,"body":"know how. They don't have the college level reading"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1104.59,"endTime":1110.29,"body":"skills they need to tackle these hard assignments"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1104.59,"endTime":1110.29,"body":"that we give them. And so, yeah, maybe we need to be"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1110.29,"endTime":1114.53,"body":"scaffolding that. Maybe we need to be teaching those"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1110.29,"endTime":1114.53,"body":"reading skills and things like close reading"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1114.53,"endTime":1119.4199999999998,"body":"exercises and annotation, right, these are ways that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1114.53,"endTime":1119.4199999999998,"body":"we can actually because, you know, a lot of students,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1119.81,"endTime":1125.6999999999998,"body":"they take shortcuts when they don't feel competent"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1119.81,"endTime":1125.6999999999998,"body":"at the thing you're being that they're being asked"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1125.6999999999998,"endTime":1126.75,"body":"to do, right?"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1126.78,"endTime":1127.9199999999998,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1127.9199999999998,"endTime":1131.61,"body":"If they feel like they have the skills"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1127.9199999999998,"endTime":1131.61,"body":"to do it, they're much more likely to to spend the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1131.61,"endTime":1137.3999999999999,"body":"time and to do it. And so and, you know, I combine"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1131.61,"endTime":1137.3999999999999,"body":"that with all the stories we've heard from folks"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1137.3999999999999,"endTime":1144.3899999999999,"body":"kind of coming out of COVID and the kind of study."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1137.3999999999999,"endTime":1144.3899999999999,"body":"Skill. Gaps that seem to be showing up in our"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1144.3899999999999,"endTime":1148.11,"body":"college students. I think now more than ever, we"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1144.3899999999999,"endTime":1148.11,"body":"need to we need to be thinking about how to teach"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1148.11,"endTime":1149.49,"body":"skills like reading and note taking."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1150.49,"endTime":1155.9299999999998,"body":"Yeah, I think we are going to be"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1150.49,"endTime":1155.9299999999998,"body":"coming more to a foundational sort of I don't want"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1155.9299999999998,"endTime":1159.6499999999999,"body":"to say reckoning because that's just a bad way, but"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1155.9299999999998,"endTime":1159.6499999999999,"body":"it is kind of a reckoning at this point, right?"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1159.9199999999998,"endTime":1164.84,"body":"Because we're really are going to have to start"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1159.9199999999998,"endTime":1164.84,"body":"thinking about how we teach and why we teach and"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1164.84,"endTime":1171.1399999999999,"body":"what we're actually teaching our students to beyond"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1164.84,"endTime":1171.1399999999999,"body":"the actual disciplines of the context. And I don't"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1171.1399999999999,"endTime":1175.9399999999998,"body":"know necessarily if all of our faculty are going to"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1171.1399999999999,"endTime":1175.9399999999998,"body":"be there for that, because I think you and I have"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1175.9399999999998,"endTime":1181.1,"body":"taken kind of a deep dive in this and we've kept"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1175.9399999999998,"endTime":1181.1,"body":"sort of a pulse to it. The vast majority of faculty"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1181.1,"endTime":1185.8899999999999,"body":"I've spoken to you can kind of talk about this too,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1181.1,"endTime":1185.8899999999999,"body":"just seem to like their eyes, just sort of like"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1185.8999999999999,"endTime":1190.61,"body":"glaze over when you bring this up because, you know,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1185.8999999999999,"endTime":1190.61,"body":"they play around the free version of ChatGPT. It's"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1190.61,"endTime":1196.26,"body":"not very impressive to them. It doesn't seem to be a"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1190.61,"endTime":1196.26,"body":"threat to what they teach or how they teach. And"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1196.26,"endTime":1205.26,"body":"this really is designed to persuade them to"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1196.26,"endTime":1205.26,"body":"reevaluate that position and consider that. When you"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1205.26,"endTime":1209.55,"body":"can really sit down with people and work with them"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1205.26,"endTime":1209.55,"body":"for a few hours, even a few days at a time with this"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1209.55,"endTime":1215.55,"body":"tool, these tools, and they can kind of start seeing"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1209.55,"endTime":1215.55,"body":"the possibilities of the ways the tech can actually"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1215.55,"endTime":1220.49,"body":"help students, but also potentially deskill them."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1215.55,"endTime":1220.49,"body":"You do get that light bulb on a lot of faculty"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1220.49,"endTime":1224.55,"body":"members, who'll say oh wow the way I've done things"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1220.49,"endTime":1224.55,"body":"before too. Probably not going to work for very much"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1224.55,"endTime":1224.76,"body":"longer."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1225.4099999999999,"endTime":1229.97,"body":"Yeah. Now, well, let's talk a little"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1225.4099999999999,"endTime":1229.97,"body":"bit more about note taking, because I have I have I"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1229.97,"endTime":1235.4099999999999,"body":"went through a period several years ago where I was"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1229.97,"endTime":1235.4099999999999,"body":"fascinated with note taking practices and and the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1235.4299999999998,"endTime":1238.9099999999999,"body":"limited research there is on note taking and how to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1235.4299999999998,"endTime":1238.9099999999999,"body":"do it well."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1241.1,"endTime":1246.1699999999998,"body":"So it's similar question How is AI going to be"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1241.1,"endTime":1246.1699999999998,"body":"disruptive to note taking and and how might you know"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1246.1699999999998,"endTime":1249.4399999999998,"body":"a thoughtful student use AI well as part of their"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1246.1699999999998,"endTime":1249.4399999999998,"body":"note taking process."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1250.27,"endTime":1257.5,"body":"Well it's it's a really great question"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1250.27,"endTime":1257.5,"body":"too. So a lot of the models that exist now, too, are"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1258.1899999999998,"endTime":1262.75,"body":"sort of these generative AI generative. They're"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1258.1899999999998,"endTime":1262.75,"body":"general foundational models that can do lots of"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1262.75,"endTime":1269.4099999999999,"body":"things. Back then in I think it was still the fall"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1262.75,"endTime":1269.4099999999999,"body":"of 2022, OpenAI announced whisper, which was their"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1269.9199999999998,"endTime":1275.9199999999998,"body":"transcription model. You've been probably exposed to"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1269.9199999999998,"endTime":1275.9199999999998,"body":"this. If you've been on Zoom, you turn down the"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1275.9199999999998,"endTime":1281.1699999999998,"body":"automatic transcription because that's natural"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1275.9199999999998,"endTime":1281.1699999999998,"body":"language processing. What this technology does is"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1281.1699999999998,"endTime":1287.5,"body":"take your voice automatically, transcribe it, The"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1281.1699999999998,"endTime":1287.5,"body":"sort of plus that this gives you then is it then"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1287.5,"endTime":1292.99,"body":"takes that transcription and loads it directly into"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1287.5,"endTime":1292.99,"body":"the context window of one of these large language"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1292.99,"endTime":1300.58,"body":"models or large multimodal models, so you can record"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1292.99,"endTime":1300.58,"body":"your voice and then ChatGPT or whatever model using"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1300.58,"endTime":1305.8899999999999,"body":"can summarize it for you. A lot of the apps that"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1300.58,"endTime":1305.8899999999999,"body":"exist, I think one of them is called Turbo Learn"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1305.8899999999999,"endTime":1311.05,"body":"which I don't know why they call it Turbo Learn. I"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1305.8899999999999,"endTime":1311.05,"body":"guess Turbo make your Turboize, your learning or"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1311.05,"endTime":1320.26,"body":"something else. O right. Yeah. Add it exists it it"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1311.05,"endTime":1320.26,"body":"is advertising to students to to let AI listen for"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1320.26,"endTime":1324.49,"body":"you to synthesize the notes which is the really big"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1320.26,"endTime":1324.49,"body":"thing too, because it's not just about listening,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1324.49,"endTime":1330.07,"body":"it's about then taking apart what is being talked to"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1324.49,"endTime":1330.07,"body":"you about too, and choosing what's important to"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1330.07,"endTime":1335.53,"body":"record too, and putting conversation with your own"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1330.07,"endTime":1335.53,"body":"ideas and what your teacher has said beforehand too,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1335.9499999999998,"endTime":1341.8,"body":"and they're marketing this as AI will be able to do"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1335.9499999999998,"endTime":1341.8,"body":"that for you to record and synthesize it, and then"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1341.8,"endTime":1347.26,"body":"it will make flashcards for you to do, teach you"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1341.8,"endTime":1347.26,"body":"about the knowledge as well. So you do the least"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1347.26,"endTime":1352.1499999999999,"body":"amount of work possible we're going to do for you."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1347.26,"endTime":1352.1499999999999,"body":"Yeah, I mean, it's fascinating let's take in all of"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1352.1499999999999,"endTime":1357.61,"body":"the different things we've taught human beings how"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1352.1499999999999,"endTime":1357.61,"body":"to do to record information and process information,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1358.0,"endTime":1364.24,"body":"you know, and it's now automated that and like I"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1358.0,"endTime":1364.24,"body":"look at this, I came across this like, Oh no, that's"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1364.24,"endTime":1370.12,"body":"not where we want our students to do, right? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1364.24,"endTime":1370.12,"body":"but just like with reading, it could help people"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1370.12,"endTime":1375.04,"body":"that actually need it. Okay. And you know, if I'm at"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1370.12,"endTime":1375.04,"body":"a conference and I'm going between different"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1375.04,"endTime":1380.1699999999998,"body":"sessions or something else, I would love to have"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1375.04,"endTime":1380.1699999999998,"body":"this tool available for conference goers. Right. You"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1380.1699999999998,"endTime":1384.97,"body":"could go up and see a big screen TV, like instead of"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1380.1699999999998,"endTime":1384.97,"body":"having flights being go to Europe, everyone's"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1384.97,"endTime":1388.99,"body":"transcription for everyone's conference.You  could"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1384.97,"endTime":1388.99,"body":"go, there's like, Yeah, I would love to go to see"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1388.99,"endTime":1394.51,"body":"that person and see what's going on there too. Or at"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1388.99,"endTime":1394.51,"body":"the end of a conference, have that available for you"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1394.51,"endTime":1404.1999999999998,"body":"to go through and think about. So it can have these"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1394.51,"endTime":1404.1999999999998,"body":"really great learning opportunities. It's just not"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1404.1999999999998,"endTime":1407.9199999999998,"body":"being adopted in a critical way that's going to help"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1404.1999999999998,"endTime":1407.9199999999998,"body":"students, at least for what we're seeing from the"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1407.9199999999998,"endTime":1415.0,"body":"marketing. And we just want faculty be aware of it"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1407.9199999999998,"endTime":1415.0,"body":"and to consider ways that they can slow that down"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1415.3899999999999,"endTime":1421.51,"body":"and consider intentional note taking as well. And"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1415.3899999999999,"endTime":1421.51,"body":"like you said before, there's very little evidence"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1421.51,"endTime":1425.77,"body":"about how we do this. Well, right. We have all these"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1421.51,"endTime":1425.77,"body":"different people that talk about note taking and how"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1425.77,"endTime":1431.1999999999998,"body":"it can be interesting. And some people will even say"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1425.77,"endTime":1431.1999999999998,"body":"it could be an art form, too, you know? Yeah, and I"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1431.1999999999998,"endTime":1436.51,"body":"agree with them. It's just how do you teach that"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1431.1999999999998,"endTime":1436.51,"body":"skill is another thing we're going to have to start"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1436.51,"endTime":1436.99,"body":"thinking about."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1438.1299999999999,"endTime":1441.34,"body":"Well, and it's interesting, you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1438.1299999999999,"endTime":1441.34,"body":"mentioned the kind of synthesis and then you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1441.34,"endTime":1447.34,"body":"mentioned having flashcards generated from your"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1441.34,"endTime":1447.34,"body":"notes because, you know, if if if I have to sit"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1447.34,"endTime":1453.28,"body":"through a lecture and I have notes from that and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1447.34,"endTime":1453.28,"body":"then I can test myself on on that information,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1454.0,"endTime":1458.05,"body":"that's a good form of learning, right? The kind of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1454.0,"endTime":1458.05,"body":"retrieval practice that's built into that. And so"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1458.05,"endTime":1462.97,"body":"the ability to kind of create flashcards based on"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1458.05,"endTime":1462.97,"body":"any body of information I think is a potentially"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1462.97,"endTime":1468.98,"body":"useful tool for students. But I do wonder about the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1462.97,"endTime":1468.98,"body":"synthesis piece, because what research I've seen on"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1468.98,"endTime":1474.6499999999999,"body":"note taking seems to indicate that when you're"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1468.98,"endTime":1474.6499999999999,"body":"taking notes, there is a kind of Goldilocks zone. If"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1474.6499999999999,"endTime":1480.35,"body":"you just transcribe everything that the teacher is"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1474.6499999999999,"endTime":1480.35,"body":"saying, you're not actively processing it in the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1480.35,"endTime":1486.1399999999999,"body":"moment. And so it's good for reference later, but"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1480.35,"endTime":1486.1399999999999,"body":"it's not helping you learn during class, right? And"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1486.1399999999999,"endTime":1491.03,"body":"if you just write down two or three key words,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1486.1399999999999,"endTime":1491.03,"body":"you've done like too much synthesis, right? But yeah,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1491.06,"endTime":1496.61,"body":"that, that discernment of knowing what's important,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1491.06,"endTime":1496.61,"body":"what's less important, what are the structures, what"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1496.61,"endTime":1501.4399999999998,"body":"are the relationships, what are, what are the big"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1496.61,"endTime":1501.4399999999998,"body":"ideas? And so you're using that to decide what to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1501.4399999999998,"endTime":1506.99,"body":"write down and what not to write down. If you do"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1501.4399999999998,"endTime":1506.99,"body":"that kind of active synthesis during the note taking"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1507.26,"endTime":1512.4499999999998,"body":"that's been shown to, to lead to better learning"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1507.26,"endTime":1512.4499999999998,"body":"results. Right? So that's where I really worry that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1512.4499999999998,"endTime":1518.04,"body":"if there's a shortcut for that if if the tool is"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1512.4499999999998,"endTime":1518.04,"body":"doing that part of us for, for the students, that's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1518.04,"endTime":1519.24,"body":"much more problematic, I think."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1519.83,"endTime":1525.3799999999999,"body":"Yeah, I think so too. And the whole"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1519.83,"endTime":1525.3799999999999,"body":"theme of it is that basically do the least amount of"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1525.3799999999999,"endTime":1531.3799999999999,"body":"work possible to get informed with this information"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1525.3799999999999,"endTime":1531.3799999999999,"body":"for the assessment that's coming up, whether that's"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1531.3799999999999,"endTime":1536.6599999999999,"body":"midterm or some other sort of test or something else."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1531.3799999999999,"endTime":1536.6599999999999,"body":"And then you don't have to think about it ever again"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1537.1399999999999,"endTime":1540.9499999999998,"body":"because you never went through the synthesis part."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1537.1399999999999,"endTime":1540.9499999999998,"body":"You just looked at like the flashcards that someone"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1540.9499999999998,"endTime":1548.03,"body":"comes up there to. And I think this goes into a much"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1540.9499999999998,"endTime":1548.03,"body":"greater theme we're looking at too, which is we"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1548.03,"endTime":1553.6999999999998,"body":"don't really know what AI's impact is going to be on"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1548.03,"endTime":1553.6999999999998,"body":"learning as a whole. We don't know what's on writing"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1553.6999999999998,"endTime":1561.08,"body":"that right now as it is now, and that's especially"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1553.6999999999998,"endTime":1561.08,"body":"true if we start letting these systems do these"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1561.08,"endTime":1566.81,"body":"different skill processes for us. And it's also"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1561.08,"endTime":1566.81,"body":"possibly true if we let it do more advanced feedback"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1566.81,"endTime":1573.6499999999999,"body":"too. You know, I write and we speak to each other"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1566.81,"endTime":1573.6499999999999,"body":"right now as human beings. What is going to change"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1573.6499999999999,"endTime":1579.1699999999998,"body":"with our dynamic with each other or just our"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1573.6499999999999,"endTime":1579.1699999999998,"body":"communication if we're now writing where we know AI"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1579.1699999999998,"endTime":1584.3,"body":"is going to be offering this feedback, or AI is"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1579.1699999999998,"endTime":1584.3,"body":"going to be listening to us. And I don't have an"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1584.3,"endTime":1589.97,"body":"answer to that. I don't think anyone does. But boy,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1584.3,"endTime":1589.97,"body":"we sure are moving fast into that arena right now to"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1589.97,"endTime":1590.48,"body":"do so."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1591.4299999999998,"endTime":1595.3899999999999,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. Well, and like you say, if"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1591.4299999999998,"endTime":1595.3899999999999,"body":"you're using Zoom, you've probably seen some of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1595.3899999999999,"endTime":1601.1499999999999,"body":"these tools in action, right? I have a couple of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1595.3899999999999,"endTime":1601.1499999999999,"body":"colleagues. I zoom with occasionally and they, they"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1601.1499999999999,"endTime":1607.48,"body":"use the automatic captioning and they have a tool"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1601.1499999999999,"endTime":1607.48,"body":"that will generate action items. Right. It'll listen"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1607.48,"endTime":1611.77,"body":"to our conversation and then identify your action"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1607.48,"endTime":1611.77,"body":"items and my action items and it'll summarize the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1611.77,"endTime":1617.6799999999998,"body":"meeting for me. And you know, as a working"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1611.77,"endTime":1617.6799999999998,"body":"professional who is really invested in the work that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1617.6799999999998,"endTime":1620.8,"body":"I'm doing, that is a super useful tool, right?"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1620.8,"endTime":1621.51,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1621.6499999999999,"endTime":1625.3899999999999,"body":"I will be able to vet its output. It"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1621.6499999999999,"endTime":1625.3899999999999,"body":"will help me remember things I need to remember. It"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1625.3899999999999,"endTime":1631.6599999999999,"body":"will clarify things I might have missed. But if I'm"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1625.3899999999999,"endTime":1631.6599999999999,"body":"a student who either doesn't have the skills yet to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1631.6599999999999,"endTime":1637.24,"body":"make good use of that tool, or isn't particularly"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1631.6599999999999,"endTime":1637.24,"body":"motivated in the situation that I'm in right then it"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1637.24,"endTime":1640.21,"body":"just opens up all types of problematic doors."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1641.29,"endTime":1641.9499999999998,"body":"Really does."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1642.6299999999999,"endTime":1646.3799999999999,"body":"Yeah. So you mentioned feedback and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1642.6299999999999,"endTime":1646.3799999999999,"body":"that was one of your one of your post was about kind"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1646.3799999999999,"endTime":1654.78,"body":"of A.I. and feedback and this is I think feels a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1646.3799999999999,"endTime":1654.78,"body":"little more abstract or meta somehow. But I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1654.78,"endTime":1660.57,"body":"think one of the fears that people have is that, you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1654.78,"endTime":1660.57,"body":"know, a student will have an assignment produced by"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1660.78,"endTime":1666.87,"body":"AI and give it to the instructor who will then have"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1660.78,"endTime":1666.87,"body":"another AI, give the student feedback. And like"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1667.11,"endTime":1671.46,"body":"you've basically refined this assignment with no"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1667.11,"endTime":1671.46,"body":"human involvement whatsoever. Right? It's just the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1671.61,"endTime":1675.57,"body":"AIs talking to each other. And so is that the kind"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1671.61,"endTime":1675.57,"body":"of thing you're worried about when you when you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1675.57,"endTime":1676.9499999999998,"body":"think about AI and feedback?"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1677.9399999999998,"endTime":1682.32,"body":"Yeah. I mean, it's not even my idea"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1677.9399999999998,"endTime":1682.32,"body":"that this is how crazy it was. There was a"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1682.32,"endTime":1689.1,"body":"researcher in the UK, Mike Sharples. He was actually"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1682.32,"endTime":1689.1,"body":"getting ready to retire when ChatGPT was launched"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1689.1,"endTime":1696.72,"body":"and now he's not retiring, but he wrote an opinion"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1689.1,"endTime":1696.72,"body":"piece way back. I think in May or June of 2022, well"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1696.72,"endTime":1704.4299999999998,"body":"before ChatGPT was released, it was about, I think"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1696.72,"endTime":1704.4299999999998,"body":"it was AI and education, an opinion piece about what"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1704.4299999999998,"endTime":1708.87,"body":"to do moving forward. And one of the lines in there"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1704.4299999999998,"endTime":1708.87,"body":"that stuck with me that I still remember is that,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1708.87,"endTime":1715.23,"body":"you know, students will use AI to produce"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1708.87,"endTime":1715.23,"body":"assessments. Teachers will use AI to grade the"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1715.23,"endTime":1723.6999999999998,"body":"assessments, what is gained and what is valuable in"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1715.23,"endTime":1723.6999999999998,"body":"that sort of process. And he was thinking about that"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1723.6999999999998,"endTime":1727.8999999999999,"body":"well before all this came up, and it was something"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1723.6999999999998,"endTime":1727.8999999999999,"body":"to that I've been thinking about as well. We we"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1727.8999999999999,"endTime":1732.4299999999998,"body":"tested an AI feedback system and it was bespoke. You"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1727.8999999999999,"endTime":1732.4299999999998,"body":"could create your own problems with your students,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1732.4299999999998,"endTime":1738.61,"body":"you could do this and what we found is that,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1732.4299999999998,"endTime":1738.61,"body":"especially for young first year writing students who"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1738.61,"endTime":1744.97,"body":"did not really have the groundwork for the feedback"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1738.61,"endTime":1744.97,"body":"is they really trusted this authoritative type of"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1744.97,"endTime":1751.1799999999998,"body":"voice that was like, Look, this is good, this is"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1744.97,"endTime":1751.1799999999998,"body":"great. You're doing a good job and not understanding"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1751.1799999999998,"endTime":1756.46,"body":"that it's just generated feedback. And the other"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1751.1799999999998,"endTime":1756.46,"body":"part of it too, is that they didn't understand that"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1756.82,"endTime":1761.4399999999998,"body":"no matter what you ask the AI, it's always going to"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1756.82,"endTime":1761.4399999999998,"body":"give you something to work on because it's"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1761.4399999999998,"endTime":1767.1999999999998,"body":"predictive, right? It's not it's not reasoning. It's"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1761.4399999999998,"endTime":1767.1999999999998,"body":"not saying this is good for you. You've done two or"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1767.1999999999998,"endTime":1771.9099999999999,"body":"three steps. So we had some situations where"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1767.1999999999998,"endTime":1771.9099999999999,"body":"students were like cueing the system over and over"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1771.9099999999999,"endTime":1776.62,"body":"again, say, okay, I fixed that part. What about this"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1771.9099999999999,"endTime":1776.62,"body":"part? I fixed that part. There's nothing broken with"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1776.62,"endTime":1782.29,"body":"your writing. That's not how this works. Your"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1776.62,"endTime":1782.29,"body":"writing is supposed to be improving as you go"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1782.29,"endTime":1787.8999999999999,"body":"through it. It's not about a task list of fixing"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1782.29,"endTime":1787.8999999999999,"body":"these different problems with it, which is what the"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1788.05,"endTime":1794.29,"body":"AI feedback was basically doing. And so that was"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1788.05,"endTime":1794.29,"body":"text in and text out feedback. Now with the GPT four"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1794.29,"endTime":1799.79,"body":"Omni, the new model, it's going to be audio and it's"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1794.29,"endTime":1799.79,"body":"going to be programmable to anything that you want."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1799.86,"endTime":1804.6999999999998,"body":"They had Scarlett Johansson's voice or I'm sorry,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1799.86,"endTime":1804.6999999999998,"body":"Skye's voice. They're saying it wasn't Scarlett"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1804.6999999999998,"endTime":1809.56,"body":"Johansson, but it sounded a lot like Scarlett"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1804.6999999999998,"endTime":1809.56,"body":"Johannson. Yeah, yeah, it sounded a lot like her."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1810.34,"endTime":1817.4499999999998,"body":"But you could program that for a male voice. You"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1810.34,"endTime":1817.4499999999998,"body":"could program that for a political perspective, too."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1817.4499999999998,"endTime":1821.71,"body":"If you did not want a perspective from a"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1817.4499999999998,"endTime":1821.71,"body":"conservative teacher or a liberal teacher, you could"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1821.71,"endTime":1827.1699999999998,"body":"program that in your voice too. So that's a major"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1821.71,"endTime":1827.1699999999998,"body":"downstream impacts about how we learn or how we"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1827.1699999999998,"endTime":1833.32,"body":"teach. And we've had these discussions too,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1827.1699999999998,"endTime":1833.32,"body":"especially through student evaluation of female"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1833.35,"endTime":1838.09,"body":"teachers and talking about how they're not being"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1833.35,"endTime":1838.09,"body":"honest or fair about the feedback or evaluation of"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1838.09,"endTime":1845.47,"body":"them to because they are female. They're looking at"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1838.09,"endTime":1845.47,"body":"you like that too. Would you then have students who"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1845.5,"endTime":1850.4199999999998,"body":"did not like a female teacher that program it just"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1845.5,"endTime":1850.4199999999998,"body":"to have a male voice talk to them or in some way,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1850.4199999999998,"endTime":1857.1699999999998,"body":"shape or form. And those are just some of the things"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1850.4199999999998,"endTime":1857.1699999999998,"body":"we're just now becoming on people's radar is"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1857.1799999999998,"endTime":1863.27,"body":"something I'm concerned about, and I wish I had more"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1857.1799999999998,"endTime":1863.27,"body":"answers to that than I do now. But that's just kind"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1863.27,"endTime":1863.87,"body":"of where we are."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1864.3999999999999,"endTime":1869.05,"body":"Yeah, well, so are you. Are you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1864.3999999999999,"endTime":1869.05,"body":"teaching this fall?"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1869.96,"endTime":1873.86,"body":"I am teaching this fall? Yep. I'm"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1869.96,"endTime":1873.86,"body":"teaching digital media studies class."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1874.34,"endTime":1880.04,"body":"All right, so what what what questions"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1874.34,"endTime":1880.04,"body":"are you going to try to answer this fall through"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1880.03,"endTime":1884.0,"body":"your teaching? What? Do you have any experiments"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1880.03,"endTime":1884.0,"body":"lined up or studies that you're planning?"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1885.4199999999998,"endTime":1892.05,"body":"We have quite a few lined up. I think"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1885.4199999999998,"endTime":1892.05,"body":"the biggest one is going to be how effective we can"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1892.05,"endTime":1897.3899999999999,"body":"be in advocating for our students to kind of slow"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1892.05,"endTime":1897.3899999999999,"body":"things down and be a little bit more critical with"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1897.3899999999999,"endTime":1903.9099999999999,"body":"their engagement with the tools. We've had some good"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1897.3899999999999,"endTime":1903.9099999999999,"body":"engagement with that, and one of the things too, we"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1903.9099999999999,"endTime":1909.1699999999998,"body":"would test is with student reflection talking about"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1903.9099999999999,"endTime":1909.1699999999998,"body":"this process. The thing that's always concerned me"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1909.1699999999998,"endTime":1914.33,"body":"about this is that it's just sort of siloed in my"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1909.1699999999998,"endTime":1914.33,"body":"own teaching. Like when I talk to my students, then"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1914.34,"endTime":1919.1899999999998,"body":"they reflect that they're pretty honest. Like I know"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1914.34,"endTime":1919.1899999999998,"body":"I can't use the tools like this in your class. I'm"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1919.1899999999998,"endTime":1924.9499999999998,"body":"very aware of that. Thank you for pointing that out."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1919.1899999999998,"endTime":1924.9499999999998,"body":"But I use it all the time in my math class. It helps"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1924.9499999999998,"endTime":1930.23,"body":"me with these different questions and like we've"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1924.9499999999998,"endTime":1930.23,"body":"gone over how this is terrible to be using in math"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1930.23,"endTime":1935.0,"body":"questions because it only gets it right about 60% of"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1930.23,"endTime":1935.0,"body":"the time. But when you talk with the students and"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1935.0,"endTime":1942.3799999999999,"body":"they're like, Hey, 60% for a class that's curves,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1935.0,"endTime":1942.3799999999999,"body":"that's actually like a B minus or C plus, I'm like"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1942.3799999999999,"endTime":1945.1399999999999,"body":"that's not what we want to try to do here right now."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1945.59,"endTime":1946.6699999999998,"body":"This is hurting my brain."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1947.06,"endTime":1948.1399999999999,"body":"Yeah. Yep."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1948.47,"endTime":1949.31,"body":"And my soul."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1949.82,"endTime":1950.8999999999999,"body":"I know and that's."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1951.26,"endTime":1952.58,"body":"As a math instructor."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1952.9399999999998,"endTime":1958.1899999999998,"body":"Yeah, right. Well, I had no idea that"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1952.9399999999998,"endTime":1958.1899999999998,"body":"they were using this especially. So what are the"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1958.1899999999998,"endTime":1965.81,"body":"apps that they're using a lot of it's called"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1958.1899999999998,"endTime":1965.81,"body":"AnswersAI. And AnswersAI is either on your desktop"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1965.81,"endTime":1971.6899999999998,"body":"device, your laptop, or your cell phone, and it"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1965.81,"endTime":1971.6899999999998,"body":"takes a screenshot of a mathematical problem and it"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1971.6899999999998,"endTime":1976.6699999999998,"body":"loads that screenshot into the AI. And the AI"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1971.6899999999998,"endTime":1976.6699999999998,"body":"produces an answer, not the right answer necessarily,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1976.6899999999998,"endTime":1982.9099999999999,"body":"but produces an answer. And it gives you the step by"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1976.6899999999998,"endTime":1982.9099999999999,"body":"step process of how it came to that answer too. And"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1982.9099999999999,"endTime":1988.49,"body":"that is been something that a lot of folks that I've"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1982.9099999999999,"endTime":1988.49,"body":"talked to in the STEM have just not realized was"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1988.49,"endTime":1995.9299999999998,"body":"available for students. But students, oh boy, they"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1988.49,"endTime":1995.9299999999998,"body":"they realize it fairly rapidly. They go to it. And"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1995.9299999999998,"endTime":2000.46,"body":"of course, you know, math has been a discipline"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":1995.9299999999998,"endTime":2000.46,"body":"that's dealt with different versions of machine"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2000.46,"endTime":2006.28,"body":"learning and AI now for almost a decade now, Steve"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2000.46,"endTime":2006.28,"body":"Wolfram has been a leading voice in that too for a"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2006.28,"endTime":2011.9199999999998,"body":"very long time. And so they were when I kind of"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2006.28,"endTime":2011.9199999999998,"body":"talked a little bit with our math faculty, they were"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2011.9199999999998,"endTime":2016.8799999999999,"body":"a little bit dismissive about ChatGPT because they'd"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2011.9199999999998,"endTime":2016.8799999999999,"body":"been dealing with this for years. Yeah, but they"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2016.8799999999999,"endTime":2021.34,"body":"hadn't realized that it's able to do that and be"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2016.8799999999999,"endTime":2021.34,"body":"able to write screenshot of this things."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2021.4399999999998,"endTime":2027.83,"body":"Right. So I think, you know, we've had"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2021.4399999999998,"endTime":2027.83,"body":"things like Wolfram Alpha for a while that were free"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2027.83,"endTime":2035.84,"body":"to use, easy to use, readily accessible to students,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2027.83,"endTime":2035.84,"body":"but still required the students to kind of translate"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2035.84,"endTime":2041.24,"body":"a math problem into they didn't have to do a lot of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2035.84,"endTime":2041.24,"body":"translation to get the Wolfram Alpha. It's pretty"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2041.23,"endTime":2045.53,"body":"flexible in terms of its input. But they've but if"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2041.23,"endTime":2045.53,"body":"you give students a complicated word problem,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2045.52,"endTime":2049.66,"body":"they're going to have to kind of get to the point of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2045.52,"endTime":2049.66,"body":"doing a calculation that they can hand off to the to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2049.67,"endTime":2053.8,"body":"the calculator. And it can be a pretty sophisticated"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2049.67,"endTime":2053.8,"body":"calculator calculation."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2055.3,"endTime":2064.58,"body":"But with the multimodal AI tools, now you're looking"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2055.3,"endTime":2064.58,"body":"at taking a photo of a handwritten problem, right."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2065.12,"endTime":2069.53,"body":"And and maybe even producing something that looks"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2065.12,"endTime":2069.53,"body":"like a handwritten solution. Right. It's that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2069.53,"endTime":2074.96,"body":"multimodal piece that takes even that small"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2069.53,"endTime":2074.96,"body":"translation step out of the process where you can"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2074.96,"endTime":2081.17,"body":"just point it at the problem you're given and get"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2074.96,"endTime":2081.17,"body":"something to go on that. And you know, and the thing"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2081.17,"endTime":2086.09,"body":"is that the large language models by themselves are"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2081.17,"endTime":2086.09,"body":"not very good at math, but when you couple them with"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2086.09,"endTime":2093.44,"body":"their ability to query a Wolfram Alpha, then if you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2086.09,"endTime":2093.44,"body":"can have the the multimodal model, take a picture of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2093.44,"endTime":2099.88,"body":"the word problem, turn that into to something"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2093.44,"endTime":2099.88,"body":"calculable, you're going to get pretty good answers"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2099.88,"endTime":2103.84,"body":"from that. And that's you know, that is that is a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2099.88,"endTime":2103.84,"body":"kind of game changer for math."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2104.56,"endTime":2109.0299999999997,"body":"It is. Yeah. It's a game changer, too."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2104.56,"endTime":2109.0299999999997,"body":"It's how developers are now thinking about using"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2109.0299999999997,"endTime":2114.91,"body":"these tools to, you know, completely offload"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2109.0299999999997,"endTime":2114.91,"body":"learning in that situation. Yeah. And that's"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2114.91,"endTime":2120.5499999999997,"body":"something we have to think about. And it also gets"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2114.91,"endTime":2120.5499999999997,"body":"us into, you know, this new phase of the tools that"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2120.5499999999997,"endTime":2126.7599999999998,"body":"are being almost agentic in some ways. So if you can"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2120.5499999999997,"endTime":2126.7599999999998,"body":"have an LLM use a different tool. In this case,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2126.7599999999998,"endTime":2133.18,"body":"WolframAlpha or a calculator or something else to"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2126.7599999999998,"endTime":2133.18,"body":"get past a problem that it can't do on its own, It's"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2133.18,"endTime":2139.63,"body":"becoming not intelligence, not sentient in any way."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2133.18,"endTime":2139.63,"body":"Right. But it's becoming much more of a challenge to"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2139.63,"endTime":2145.84,"body":"sort of like talk to people about it as just a tool"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2139.63,"endTime":2145.84,"body":"itself. It's becoming a much more of a challenge to"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2145.84,"endTime":2150.16,"body":"deal with this, too, because it is almost like"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2145.84,"endTime":2150.16,"body":"another thing, another entity that can complete a"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2150.16,"endTime":2158.84,"body":"task. And there's some really great examples of this"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2150.16,"endTime":2158.84,"body":"out there for coding Cognition Labs. DevinAI. I"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2159.35,"endTime":2163.56,"body":"think it's very worthwhile watching the demo of that"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2159.35,"endTime":2163.56,"body":"because it can code a website and use five or six"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2163.56,"endTime":2168.6,"body":"different tools, including a web browser and use"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2163.56,"endTime":2168.6,"body":"strategic reasoning and long term planning to come"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2168.6,"endTime":2176.14,"body":"up with a response. And you know, if it ever gets"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2168.6,"endTime":2176.14,"body":"that good for things beyond just tasks, imagine what"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2176.14,"endTime":2181.66,"body":"that's like for students with their cameras almost"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2176.14,"endTime":2181.66,"body":"always on with their audio too. And then AI giving"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2181.66,"endTime":2187.5099999999998,"body":"them, you know, positive feedback and also"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2181.66,"endTime":2187.5099999999998,"body":"evaluating them at all points in time. And it really"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2187.5099999999998,"endTime":2194.02,"body":"is going to change how education functions. And, you"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2187.5099999999998,"endTime":2194.02,"body":"know, maybe that will be for good. But for me it's a"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2194.02,"endTime":2196.33,"body":"little bit too alarming how quickly this is"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2194.02,"endTime":2196.33,"body":"happening."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2197.23,"endTime":2202.0,"body":"So  I've got one more question for you."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2197.23,"endTime":2202.0,"body":"And I ask this a little bit facetiously. Why can't"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2202.0,"endTime":2208.12,"body":"you just pick a side like, shouldn't you be all in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2202.0,"endTime":2208.12,"body":"on AI or totally opposed to it? Isn't that aren't"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2208.12,"endTime":2210.52,"body":"those the two camps that that we're supposed to pick"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2208.12,"endTime":2210.52,"body":"from?"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2211.2799999999997,"endTime":2215.21,"body":"Those are definitely the camps. And"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2211.2799999999997,"endTime":2215.21,"body":"the problem with choosing either of those camps is"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2215.21,"endTime":2221.69,"body":"that you silo yourself into one side or the other"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2215.21,"endTime":2221.69,"body":"too. And I think the best way of dealing with A.I."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2221.69,"endTime":2227.2999999999997,"body":"right now as both a faculty member or just as a user"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2221.69,"endTime":2227.2999999999997,"body":"of it, is adopt the persona of a curious skeptic."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2227.81,"endTime":2231.23,"body":"Okay. Yes. These tools I'm going to play around with"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2227.81,"endTime":2231.23,"body":"them I'm going to see what they're going to be"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2231.23,"endTime":2235.88,"body":"useful for, too. But I'm going to be always"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2231.23,"endTime":2235.88,"body":"skeptical and thinking about if I want to adopt them."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2236.72,"endTime":2241.87,"body":"That's really what we want people to be using."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2236.72,"endTime":2241.87,"body":"Whatever technology it is, too. And unfortunately,"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2242.24,"endTime":2247.31,"body":"we're on a podcast so your audience can't see this."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2242.24,"endTime":2247.31,"body":"I'm holding up my cell phone right now, and the"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2247.31,"endTime":2253.52,"body":"reason why this has become such a challenge for us"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2247.31,"endTime":2253.52,"body":"is that we have become sort of, for lack of a better"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2253.52,"endTime":2259.52,"body":"word, programmed to adopt whether a new feature or"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2253.52,"endTime":2259.52,"body":"new app that comes in there too. I've got probably"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2259.52,"endTime":2264.08,"body":"60 or 70 apps on my phone that I've signed a"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2259.52,"endTime":2264.08,"body":"contract with whatever company. I haven't read a"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2264.08,"endTime":2270.02,"body":"single one of them. I don't think that anyone does"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2264.08,"endTime":2270.02,"body":"that. And we really just need to start thinking"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2270.02,"endTime":2274.88,"body":"about being more intentional about the technology"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2270.02,"endTime":2274.88,"body":"that we're using too, and how we actually integrate"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2274.88,"endTime":2280.88,"body":"this into our lives and what's it's giving us. In"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2274.88,"endTime":2280.88,"body":"this case, mostly it's time saving time or or"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2280.88,"endTime":2284.84,"body":"helping us with a task. But we might want to be"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2280.88,"endTime":2284.84,"body":"thoughtful about what we might be losing in that"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2284.84,"endTime":2290.46,"body":"process too. And just getting the chance to slow"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2284.84,"endTime":2290.46,"body":"things down with students is, I think, going to be"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2290.46,"endTime":2296.85,"body":"really helpful. So no camps for me, but Curious"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2290.46,"endTime":2296.85,"body":"Skeptic is the way I would go."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2297.2999999999997,"endTime":2300.81,"body":"I love it. I love it. Well, and that's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2297.2999999999997,"endTime":2300.81,"body":"a good place to end it, especially with the slowing"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2300.81,"endTime":2305.22,"body":"down piece, because, you know, we can't slow down"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2300.81,"endTime":2305.22,"body":"too much. We can't assume nothing is happening and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2305.22,"endTime":2311.64,"body":"we can't put our heads in the sand. But even as the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2305.22,"endTime":2311.64,"body":"technology changes fast and rapidly, I think higher"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2311.64,"endTime":2315.5699999999997,"body":"education, we've got to be we've got to be critical"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2311.64,"endTime":2315.5699999999997,"body":"about this and we've got to be thoughtful about it."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2315.5699999999997,"endTime":2322.2,"body":"And so it's been challenging the past couple of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2315.5699999999997,"endTime":2322.2,"body":"years. Right? There is a too slow mode. But as you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2322.2,"endTime":2327.2999999999997,"body":"say, when it comes to learning, there are there are"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2322.2,"endTime":2327.2999999999997,"body":"some really useful friction points in learning and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2327.2999999999997,"endTime":2328.77,"body":"we don't want to lose those along the way."},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2329.5299999999997,"endTime":2332.7,"body":"Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so"},{"speaker":"Marc Watkins","startTime":2329.5299999999997,"endTime":2332.7,"body":"much, Derek. I really appreciate this."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2333.13,"endTime":2334.84,"body":"Yeah, thanks for coming on, Marc. This"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2333.13,"endTime":2334.84,"body":"has been great."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2336.94,"endTime":2341.5299999999997,"body":"That was Marc Watkins, lecturer in Writing and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2336.94,"endTime":2341.5299999999997,"body":"Rhetoric and Academic innovation fellow at the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2341.5299999999997,"endTime":2346.0,"body":"University of Mississippi. Thanks to Marc for coming"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2341.5299999999997,"endTime":2346.0,"body":"on the podcast and giving us all so much to think"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2346.0,"endTime":2351.22,"body":"about. I rely on Marc to keep me up to speed on"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2346.0,"endTime":2351.22,"body":"what's coming in the world of AI and education, and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2351.22,"endTime":2355.93,"body":"I'm really glad to share his insights with my"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2351.22,"endTime":2355.93,"body":"podcast audience. Please see the show notes for"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2355.93,"endTime":2360.79,"body":"links to Mark's website and blog as well as to many"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2355.93,"endTime":2360.79,"body":"of the articles and tools he mentioned in our"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2360.79,"endTime":2366.13,"body":"conversation. What are you worried about as you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2360.79,"endTime":2366.13,"body":"think about AI's role in teaching and learning this"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2366.13,"endTime":2371.3199999999997,"body":"coming fall? I'd love to find out where your"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2366.13,"endTime":2371.3199999999997,"body":"headspace is right now. In the summer of 2024, you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2371.3199999999997,"endTime":2375.64,"body":"can click the link in the show notes to send me a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2371.3199999999997,"endTime":2375.64,"body":"text message. Be sure to include your name since"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2375.64,"endTime":2380.41,"body":"that won't come through automatically. Or you can"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2375.64,"endTime":2380.41,"body":"just email me Derek at Derek Bruff dot org."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2381.41,"endTime":2387.29,"body":"Intentional Teaching is sponsored by UPCEA, the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2381.41,"endTime":2387.29,"body":"Online and Professional Education Association. In"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2387.29,"endTime":2391.7,"body":"the show notes. You'll find a link to the UPCEA"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2387.29,"endTime":2391.7,"body":"website where you can find out about their research,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2391.88,"endTime":2396.79,"body":"networking opportunities and professional"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2391.88,"endTime":2396.79,"body":"development offerings. This episode of Intentional"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2396.7799999999997,"endTime":2402.21,"body":"Teaching was produced and edited by me, Derek Bruff."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2396.7799999999997,"endTime":2402.21,"body":"See the show notes for links to my website, the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2402.22,"endTime":2407.02,"body":"intentional teaching newsletter and my Patreon where"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2402.22,"endTime":2407.02,"body":"you can help support the show for just a few bucks a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2407.0099999999998,"endTime":2412.2999999999997,"body":"month. If you found this or any episode of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2407.0099999999998,"endTime":2412.2999999999997,"body":"intentional teaching useful, would you consider"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2412.2999999999997,"endTime":2415.81,"body":"sharing it with a colleague? That would mean a lot."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2412.2999999999997,"endTime":2415.81,"body":"As always, thanks for listening."}]}