{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":35.0,"endTime":35.29,"body":"..."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":39.739999999999995,"endTime":45.14,"body":"Welcome to Intentional Teaching, a podcast aimed at"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":39.739999999999995,"endTime":45.14,"body":"educators to help them develop foundational teaching"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":45.14,"endTime":51.709999999999994,"body":"skills and explore new ideas and teaching. I'm your"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":45.14,"endTime":51.709999999999994,"body":"host, Derek Bruff. I hope this podcast helps you be"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":51.709999999999994,"endTime":56.93,"body":"more intentional in how you teach and in how you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":51.709999999999994,"endTime":56.93,"body":"develop as a teacher over time. A couple of months"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":56.93,"endTime":63.2,"body":"ago, the American Birding Podcast tried out a new"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":56.93,"endTime":63.2,"body":"format that host Nate Swick called Take It or Leave"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":63.2,"endTime":69.65,"body":"It. Nate put together a list of hot takes from the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":63.2,"endTime":69.65,"body":"birdwatching community, noting that, quote, Birders"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":69.65,"endTime":75.71000000000001,"body":"are full of strong opinions, some serious and some"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":69.65,"endTime":75.71000000000001,"body":"silly. He invited on the podcast two experienced"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":75.71000000000001,"endTime":81.767,"body":"birders to discuss those hot takes. And for each one"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":75.71000000000001,"endTime":81.767,"body":"either take it that is agree with the hot take or"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":81.767,"endTime":87.83,"body":"leave it, that is disagree. This simple structure"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":81.767,"endTime":87.83,"body":"generated some fantastic discussion among Nate and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":87.83,"endTime":93.39699999999999,"body":"his panelists, and I learned a lot about the birding"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":87.83,"endTime":93.39699999999999,"body":"community from listening. I thought the same format"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":93.39699999999999,"endTime":98.64699999999999,"body":"would work for exploring hot takes from the higher"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":93.39699999999999,"endTime":98.64699999999999,"body":"education community, and I talked a few colleagues"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":98.64699999999999,"endTime":104.871,"body":"into giving it a try. We have three fantastic"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":98.64699999999999,"endTime":104.871,"body":"panelists for our first Take It or Leave It panel."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":105.753,"endTime":110.523,"body":"Stacey M Johnson is director of Learning and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":105.753,"endTime":110.523,"body":"Engagement at the Coalition of Urban and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":110.523,"endTime":116.1,"body":"Metropolitan Universities. Prior to that, she and I"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":110.523,"endTime":116.1,"body":"worked together for many years at the Vanderbilt"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":116.1,"endTime":122.195,"body":"University Center for Teaching, where she was our"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":116.1,"endTime":122.195,"body":"assistant director for educational technology. Emily"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":122.195,"endTime":127.865,"body":"Pitts Donohoe is a current colleague of mine at the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":122.195,"endTime":127.865,"body":"University of Mississippi Center for Excellence in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":127.865,"endTime":133.29500000000002,"body":"Teaching and Learning, where she serves as an"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":127.865,"endTime":133.29500000000002,"body":"associate director of Instructional Support. Emily"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":133.29500000000002,"endTime":138.035,"body":"teaches regularly in the Writing and Rhetoric"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":133.29500000000002,"endTime":138.035,"body":"program at UM, and she's the author of The Unmaking"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":138.035,"endTime":143.906,"body":"the Grade blog on Substack. Lance Eaton is not"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":138.035,"endTime":143.906,"body":"someone I've worked with, but I've been an admirer"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":143.906,"endTime":148.736,"body":"of his work for a while now. Lance is director of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":143.906,"endTime":148.736,"body":"faculty development and Innovation at College"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":148.736,"endTime":155.126,"body":"Unbound, a nontraditional college for nontraditional"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":148.736,"endTime":155.126,"body":"students. And he also has a blog on Substack one"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":155.126,"endTime":160.85,"body":"about teaching and A.I. To generate hot takes for"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":155.126,"endTime":160.85,"body":"our panel. I spent some quality time with recent"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":160.85,"endTime":165.29000000000002,"body":"essays published in the Chronicle of Higher"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":160.85,"endTime":165.29000000000002,"body":"Education and inside of Higher ed and a few other"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":165.29000000000002,"endTime":169.55,"body":"places looking for arguments about teaching and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":165.29000000000002,"endTime":169.55,"body":"learning in higher education that would be open to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":169.55,"endTime":175.622,"body":"debate. For each hot take, I asked our three"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":169.55,"endTime":175.622,"body":"panelists to take it or leave it, forcing them into"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":175.622,"endTime":179.55200000000002,"body":"an artificial binary that I think led to some robust"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":175.622,"endTime":179.55200000000002,"body":"discussion."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":181.61200000000002,"endTime":186.562,"body":"Well, Emily, Stacy and Lance, thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":181.61200000000002,"endTime":186.562,"body":"being here and being part of our panel today on the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":186.562,"endTime":191.002,"body":"Intentional Teaching podcast. I'm very excited to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":186.562,"endTime":191.002,"body":"dig into these hot takes with you all. Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":191.002,"endTime":196.34199999999998,"body":"being here.Let's  start with our first hot take and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":191.002,"endTime":196.34199999999998,"body":"I'll just read it here as I've prepared it."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":197.30200000000002,"endTime":206.685,"body":"Flexibility is a good goal, but instructors should"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":197.30200000000002,"endTime":206.685,"body":"hold the line on attendance policies. As David Galef"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":206.71499999999997,"endTime":211.515,"body":"wrote in a recent essay, and we'll put links to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":206.71499999999997,"endTime":211.515,"body":"these essays in the show notes Class performance"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":211.515,"endTime":218.3,"body":"Matters. And if they're not there, they can't"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":211.515,"endTime":218.3,"body":"participate. So, E, I'm going to call on you first."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":219.32,"endTime":224.0,"body":"What do you make of this hot take? Flexibility is a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":219.32,"endTime":224.0,"body":"good goal, but instructors should hold the line on"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":224.0,"endTime":225.17000000000002,"body":"attendance policies."},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":225.68,"endTime":229.24,"body":"So I'm glad you called on me first,"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":225.68,"endTime":229.24,"body":"because I'm going to hold forth on this for like 2"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":229.24,"endTime":238.45999999999998,"body":"hours. I could probably talk about this for a long"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":229.24,"endTime":238.45999999999998,"body":"time. Okay. So I'm going to leave this take. I, I"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":238.49,"endTime":245.17000000000002,"body":"think attendance is vital for many classes,"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":238.49,"endTime":245.17000000000002,"body":"including my own. And, you know, in my classes, it's"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":245.18,"endTime":249.8,"body":"where a lot of the learning happens. Like in"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":245.18,"endTime":249.8,"body":"community, I teach writing. And so we workshop each"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":249.8,"endTime":253.88,"body":"other's writing. We do a lot of stuff together, and"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":249.8,"endTime":253.88,"body":"it's really important that students are in class."},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":255.35000000000002,"endTime":263.919,"body":"But there are a lot of times and increasingly this"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":255.35000000000002,"endTime":263.919,"body":"is the case where I don't want students to come to"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":263.919,"endTime":269.169,"body":"class, where I would rather they skip class, right?"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":263.919,"endTime":269.169,"body":"When students are ill, I don't want them in class."},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":270.069,"endTime":275.409,"body":"If students have a family emergency, I want them"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":270.069,"endTime":275.409,"body":"with their family. I had a student call me from the"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":275.409,"endTime":276.399,"body":"side of the road"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":277.569,"endTime":282.699,"body":"recently. Last semester, the last semester I was"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":277.569,"endTime":282.699,"body":"teaching who said I just totaled my car. But I'm"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":282.699,"endTime":288.249,"body":"going to try to make it to class. I was like, No,"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":282.699,"endTime":288.249,"body":"don't come to class. Right. So I think if you have a"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":288.249,"endTime":293.589,"body":"strict attendance policy, it incentivizes students"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":288.249,"endTime":293.589,"body":"to attend even what I don't want them to attend."},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":293.889,"endTime":300.399,"body":"Right. And and it can create really bad feelings for"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":293.889,"endTime":300.399,"body":"everybody if students feel like they're coerced to"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":300.399,"endTime":305.229,"body":"be there. So I don't want to make students choose"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":300.399,"endTime":305.229,"body":"between doing the right thing for themselves and"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":305.229,"endTime":310.449,"body":"getting a good grade in my class. Right. So there's"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":305.229,"endTime":310.449,"body":"a lot more I could say about that, but I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":310.449,"endTime":312.279,"body":"stop right there and let other people. Weigh in."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":313.835,"endTime":316.775,"body":"A right. All right, Lance, what about"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":313.835,"endTime":316.775,"body":"you?"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":317.255,"endTime":325.98499999999996,"body":"Oh, definitely. Leave it as it is. Oh,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":317.255,"endTime":325.98499999999996,"body":"I read the full piece and there was a lot of, like,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":326.015,"endTime":336.015,"body":"grunting under my breath. I. think so. I work at an"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":326.015,"endTime":336.015,"body":"institute that's adult learners, and their lives"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":336.015,"endTime":344.115,"body":"turn on a dime. And there are things that just are"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":336.015,"endTime":344.115,"body":"not predictable. And I they many already navigate,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":344.115,"endTime":353.764,"body":"like, different stressors and anxiety. I don't want"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":344.115,"endTime":353.764,"body":"to contribute to that. I also think like the idea of"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":353.764,"endTime":363.341,"body":"like, attendance is performative. There's plenty of"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":353.764,"endTime":363.341,"body":"times I attended class and I was not present. I"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":363.46099999999996,"endTime":369.971,"body":"there were times like I was doodling. I was writing"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":363.46099999999996,"endTime":369.971,"body":"bad poetry, whatever. Like doing all the things that"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":369.971,"endTime":376.31899999999996,"body":"were not related to whatever class it was in. So"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":369.971,"endTime":376.31899999999996,"body":"like, I think there's a there's a privileging of the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":376.31899999999996,"endTime":383.75899999999996,"body":"presence that is a false equivalency. No, if you"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":376.31899999999996,"endTime":383.75899999999996,"body":"want to have activities and those activities are"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":383.75899999999996,"endTime":390.899,"body":"part of the students like grade. Sure, I'm also"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":383.75899999999996,"endTime":390.899,"body":"going to have those back ups because I just think"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":390.899,"endTime":398.699,"body":"that's important. And then I like there's something"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":390.899,"endTime":398.699,"body":"about this for some classes where it just feels like"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":398.99899999999997,"endTime":406.349,"body":"if by the end of the course you have demonstrated"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":398.99899999999997,"endTime":406.349,"body":"the learning objectives, like why like this? This is"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":406.349,"endTime":412.55899999999997,"body":"where it feels pedantic, it feels punitive, it feels"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":406.349,"endTime":412.55899999999997,"body":"bureaucratic while you missed four classes, but like"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":412.679,"endTime":415.949,"body":"you kicked ass. Oh am I allowed to say ass, Oh, well."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":416.419,"endTime":417.929,"body":"It's my podcast. I make the rules."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":419.479,"endTime":425.609,"body":"But like, like you kicked ass on the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":419.479,"endTime":425.609,"body":"assignments, but somehow you missed four classes and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":425.609,"endTime":432.179,"body":"therefore deserve a lower grade like that. Just that"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":425.609,"endTime":432.179,"body":"tells us all the wrong messages, that it is about"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":432.179,"endTime":434.579,"body":"power and it is not about actual learning."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":436.402,"endTime":440.962,"body":"Yeah, I hear Josh Eyler's voice in my"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":436.402,"endTime":440.962,"body":"head now saying grades do not mean what we think"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":440.962,"endTime":442.87199999999996,"body":"they mean. Right? Yeah."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":444.41499999999996,"endTime":449.104,"body":"Stacey, are you going to join? You're going to take"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":444.41499999999996,"endTime":449.104,"body":"it? I knew it. I knew."},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":449.104,"endTime":449.974,"body":"It. I'm going to take it."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":450.574,"endTime":451.484,"body":"It's why I called on you last."},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":452.49399999999997,"endTime":454.594,"body":"But I think this"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":456.36199999999997,"endTime":461.972,"body":"I think it's funny because I can absolutely not"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":456.36199999999997,"endTime":461.972,"body":"disagree with any of the things that you said. All"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":461.972,"endTime":463.202,"body":"of those things are true."},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":466.438,"endTime":472.558,"body":"But I think attendance actually is the most"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":466.438,"endTime":472.558,"body":"important part of my class. I don't lecture, so"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":472.558,"endTime":478.288,"body":"there's no way you can watch a recording later. I"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":472.558,"endTime":478.288,"body":"happen to teach lower level language classes"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":478.288,"endTime":485.39799999999997,"body":"primarily. There is no other setting in your life"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":478.288,"endTime":485.39799999999997,"body":"where you're going to get someone talking to you in"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":485.39799999999997,"endTime":491.09799999999996,"body":"a language you don't know yet. In a way you can"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":485.39799999999997,"endTime":491.09799999999996,"body":"understand and process, and your brain actually has"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":491.09799999999996,"endTime":496.46799999999996,"body":"to be fully engaged and processing in order for you"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":491.09799999999996,"endTime":496.46799999999996,"body":"to make progress in the language over the semester."},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":496.858,"endTime":502.34799999999996,"body":"So for me, it's not enough for you just to attend."},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":496.858,"endTime":502.34799999999996,"body":"You have to like be there, be in it, be processing,"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":502.738,"endTime":507.83799999999997,"body":"and I'll sometimes take students aside during class"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":502.738,"endTime":507.83799999999997,"body":"and say, if you're going to be here, really be here"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":507.83799999999997,"endTime":514.2280000000001,"body":"because we want you here. I know you can learn this,"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":507.83799999999997,"endTime":514.2280000000001,"body":"but you can't work on other stuff or it's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":514.2280000000001,"endTime":518.592,"body":"you might as well be somewhere else doing something"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":514.2280000000001,"endTime":518.592,"body":"else. So I'm going to take it. I did not read the"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":518.592,"endTime":524.862,"body":"essay. I imagine I would probably have some of the"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":518.592,"endTime":524.862,"body":"same reactions that Lance did. But I also want to"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":525.312,"endTime":532.662,"body":"add a little footnote that I don't have any punitive"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":525.312,"endTime":532.662,"body":"grading attached to my policies. So I make a very"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":532.662,"endTime":538.452,"body":"strong stance about attendance. But if you miss"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":532.662,"endTime":538.452,"body":"every single class and somehow are still able to"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":538.452,"endTime":544.424,"body":"meet the objectives of the course, there's no"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":538.452,"endTime":544.424,"body":"artificial. You just didn't show up in the way I"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":544.424,"endTime":553.284,"body":"expected you to grading. It's mostly just going to"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":544.424,"endTime":553.284,"body":"be lots of emails from me, hallway conversations, me"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":553.2940000000001,"endTime":558.51,"body":"expressing a lot of concern. It's going to get so"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":553.2940000000001,"endTime":558.51,"body":"annoying. You're going to start attending just to"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":558.5400000000001,"endTime":560.1,"body":"not have to have that talk with me again."},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":560.14,"endTime":564.6600000000001,"body":"Yeah, I think there are a lot of ways"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":560.14,"endTime":564.6600000000001,"body":"to incentivize attendance that are not grade"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":564.6600000000001,"endTime":569.82,"body":"penalties. Right. And one of the things that I do is"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":564.6600000000001,"endTime":569.82,"body":"ask students to set goals around engagement at the"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":569.82,"endTime":576.2700000000001,"body":"beginning of the semester and then self evaluate on"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":569.82,"endTime":576.2700000000001,"body":"those goals. And attendance is part of that"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":576.48,"endTime":581.0400000000001,"body":"throughout the semester. So they're directly"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":576.48,"endTime":581.0400000000001,"body":"reflecting on how is my attendance impacting my"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":581.0400000000001,"endTime":585.4200000000001,"body":"learning or my performance in the class. Right? And"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":581.0400000000001,"endTime":585.4200000000001,"body":"they when they start to see those connections, I do"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":585.4200000000001,"endTime":589.11,"body":"think they start to understand the importance of"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":585.4200000000001,"endTime":589.11,"body":"coming to class, right?"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":589.6500000000001,"endTime":594.6,"body":"Yeah, I haven't done the goal setting,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":589.6500000000001,"endTime":594.6,"body":"which I like a lot. I do often will have a kind of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":594.6,"endTime":601.2,"body":"self-assessment of class participation for students"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":594.6,"endTime":601.2,"body":"and I try to frame it around, How are you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":601.2,"endTime":605.7900000000001,"body":"contributing to the learning in this community?"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":601.2,"endTime":605.7900000000001,"body":"Right? How are you contributing to your peers"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":605.7900000000001,"endTime":610.5300000000001,"body":"learning? Are you bringing interesting perspectives"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":605.7900000000001,"endTime":610.5300000000001,"body":"and resources? And that can happen in a lot of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":610.5300000000001,"endTime":614.07,"body":"different ways. Often in my classes, some of that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":610.5300000000001,"endTime":614.07,"body":"happens during class discussion, but a lot of that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":614.07,"endTime":620.548,"body":"happens in online spaces that we're in. And I think"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":614.07,"endTime":620.548,"body":"part of the reason I like this is that it it helps"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":620.548,"endTime":624.2080000000001,"body":"students think about their class participation"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":620.548,"endTime":624.2080000000001,"body":"differently. I think a lot of students come in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":624.2080000000001,"endTime":629.758,"body":"thinking that it is a performance that they're doing"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":624.2080000000001,"endTime":629.758,"body":"right. I have to speak up in class because my"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":629.758,"endTime":635.248,"body":"professor is expecting me to say things, and the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":629.758,"endTime":635.248,"body":"more things I say, the better. And that's not really"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":635.248,"endTime":639.8380000000001,"body":"a very nuanced understanding of what class"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":635.248,"endTime":639.8380000000001,"body":"participation is for, right? It's it's, it's to help"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":639.8380000000001,"endTime":644.6030000000001,"body":"all of us learn. And so I try to reframe them that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":639.8380000000001,"endTime":644.6030000000001,"body":"in that direction. But I love the idea of having"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":644.6030000000001,"endTime":651.298,"body":"them articulate goals along those lines. I do wonder"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":644.6030000000001,"endTime":651.298,"body":"I wondered this for a while. And Lance, you kind of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":651.298,"endTime":658.768,"body":"touched on this. If I'm having them do things in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":651.298,"endTime":658.768,"body":"class as activities and I am counting that in some"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":658.768,"endTime":663.8380000000001,"body":"fashion as part of their grade, as a class"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":658.768,"endTime":663.8380000000001,"body":"participation grade, th does seem to be a de facto"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":663.8380000000001,"endTime":670.7560000000001,"body":"attendance policy. Yeah. And so how do you respond"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":663.8380000000001,"endTime":670.7560000000001,"body":"to that? Lance Does it, or is that okay then? And is"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":670.7660000000001,"endTime":672.1460000000001,"body":"it not okay because it's that."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":672.6560000000001,"endTime":678.476,"body":"S like, I think in that context, when I"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":672.6560000000001,"endTime":678.476,"body":"have them doing those activities, like those"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":678.686,"endTime":685.2560000000001,"body":"activities are grounded in alignment. So in class"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":678.686,"endTime":685.2560000000001,"body":"writing assignment, which is how I would often start"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":685.2560000000001,"endTime":691.916,"body":"face to face or synchronous courses, is this mixture"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":685.2560000000001,"endTime":691.916,"body":"of like reflection and preparation for what we're"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":691.916,"endTime":697.6460000000001,"body":"doing next. In that that classroom, which will be,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":691.916,"endTime":697.6460000000001,"body":"you know, minimal lecture and more dialogue, group"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":697.6460000000001,"endTime":704.9960000000001,"body":"activities and things like that. Yeah. And so like"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":697.6460000000001,"endTime":704.9960000000001,"body":"there's a that I can tie to the objectives of the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":704.9960000000001,"endTime":711.616,"body":"course and if a student is missing it, like I can"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":704.9960000000001,"endTime":711.616,"body":"create opportunities for them to make it up to for"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":711.616,"endTime":718.527,"body":"for demonstrating their ability to do that. In that"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":711.616,"endTime":718.527,"body":"case, it does require the student to be responsible"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":718.527,"endTime":724.677,"body":"on the follow through. So like I think that's also"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":718.527,"endTime":724.677,"body":"part of it is like, okay, like I, I will make room"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":724.677,"endTime":731.517,"body":"for those things and then it is on you because we've"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":724.677,"endTime":731.517,"body":"all set the responsibility of the like we this is"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":731.517,"endTime":737.8770000000001,"body":"what we've committed to. And I realize other things"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":731.517,"endTime":737.8770000000001,"body":"happen. But as, as adults, you know, and this is"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":737.8770000000001,"endTime":743.3670000000001,"body":"true of of traditional college age students like"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":737.8770000000001,"endTime":743.3670000000001,"body":"this now is a thing for you to pick up. And if you"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":743.3670000000001,"endTime":750.2370000000001,"body":"don't, that's fine. Like these activities are going"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":743.3670000000001,"endTime":750.2370000000001,"body":"to probably be 10%, but they are things that I can"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":750.2370000000001,"endTime":756.2370000000001,"body":"directly tie in aren't just the performative piece"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":750.2370000000001,"endTime":756.2370000000001,"body":"that there's an intentionality to why they're there"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":756.2370000000001,"endTime":758.1270000000001,"body":"and what we're doing with that. Those pieces."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":761.2130000000001,"endTime":765.263,"body":"Yeah, it's not it's not just checking a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":761.2130000000001,"endTime":765.263,"body":"box, but it's part of the learning sequence that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":765.263,"endTime":769.9730000000001,"body":"you've planned for these students. And so if they"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":765.263,"endTime":769.9730000000001,"body":"miss a step, they're still going to need to kind of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":769.9730000000001,"endTime":774.3530000000001,"body":"go after that step one way or another, even if it"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":769.9730000000001,"endTime":774.3530000000001,"body":"didn't happen when and where you you had kind of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":774.503,"endTime":776.423,"body":"anticipated it might."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":776.423,"endTime":781.613,"body":"Those can be other things like peer"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":776.423,"endTime":781.613,"body":"review as well, or peer dialogue as you know, taking"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":781.613,"endTime":790.043,"body":"in Stacey's context of of language like you can find"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":781.613,"endTime":790.043,"body":"those things that require or that like will still be"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":790.043,"endTime":797.513,"body":"contributing to the learning and structure those and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":790.043,"endTime":797.513,"body":"be prepared for some level of, of flexibility where"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":797.513,"endTime":800.003,"body":"it makes sense for for, for making up."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":801.4000000000001,"endTime":807.75,"body":"Okay. Well, I'm going to move us on to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":801.4000000000001,"endTime":807.75,"body":"our second hot take, which is on a related topic,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":808.5450000000001,"endTime":815.475,"body":"acknowledging that Emily still has an hour and 55"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":808.5450000000001,"endTime":815.475,"body":"minutes left of soapboxing on this first one, but"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":815.6850000000001,"endTime":821.265,"body":"you do have a blog, so feel free to write that out."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":815.6850000000001,"endTime":821.265,"body":"So here's number two."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":822.926,"endTime":830.336,"body":"Many students are arriving today at college without"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":822.926,"endTime":830.336,"body":"the \"studenting\" skills they need, and it's up to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":830.336,"endTime":838.926,"body":"faculty to teach them those skills explicitly. Quote,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":830.336,"endTime":838.926,"body":"and this is from an essay by Emily Isaacs coaching,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":838.926,"endTime":844.356,"body":"coaxing and holding students responsible for"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":838.926,"endTime":844.356,"body":"developing and practicing skills and habits that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":844.356,"endTime":852.066,"body":"will enable them to learn. So take it or leave it."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":844.356,"endTime":852.066,"body":"It's up to faculty to teach our students studenting"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":852.196,"endTime":857.243,"body":"skills, and I will let any one of you get us started."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":859.546,"endTime":863.356,"body":"I'm going to leave it so hard that it's"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":859.546,"endTime":863.356,"body":"going to be spinning."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":865.1560000000001,"endTime":871.306,"body":"Okay. Oh, I have strong feelings. Clearly, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":865.1560000000001,"endTime":871.306,"body":"do it. I didn't do as much prep as Emily, but I"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":871.306,"endTime":875.086,"body":"definitely in gearing up. Oh, I was just like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":878.5440000000001,"endTime":886.1220000000001,"body":"I heard the same thing when I was a college student."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":878.5440000000001,"endTime":886.1220000000001,"body":"26, 27 years ago. You can literally go into the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":886.1220000000001,"endTime":893.892,"body":"history of higher ed and going all the way back in"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":886.1220000000001,"endTime":893.892,"body":"the United States to the 16 and 1700s hear, the same"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":893.922,"endTime":902.988,"body":"thing, I think more so currently. Like we forget how"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":893.922,"endTime":902.988,"body":"different of a world it is that students are growing"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":902.988,"endTime":909.143,"body":"up in than the world we lived in. In like, yes,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":902.988,"endTime":909.143,"body":"there's all these tools that make life easier, but"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":909.143,"endTime":913.913,"body":"they're also things that make it much more complex."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":909.143,"endTime":913.913,"body":"Like I did not have to grow up in a world of"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":913.913,"endTime":920.3770000000001,"body":"navigating a digital identity, right? And that is"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":913.913,"endTime":920.3770000000001,"body":"taxing. That is like that is a cognitive load. You"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":920.3770000000001,"endTime":927.667,"body":"are just carrying like a sack of potatoes on your"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":920.3770000000001,"endTime":927.667,"body":"back. So like a very strong feelings about that, you"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":927.787,"endTime":937.4150000000001,"body":"know, And I think what I hear more in this is, you"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":927.787,"endTime":937.4150000000001,"body":"know, institutions have continued to try to build"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":937.4150000000001,"endTime":943.265,"body":"these supports, right, like every institution has"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":937.4150000000001,"endTime":943.265,"body":"over these last 25 years, build out these different"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":943.265,"endTime":949.985,"body":"types of supports. Your first year seminar, your,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":943.265,"endTime":949.985,"body":"you know, variety of students support success. I"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":949.985,"endTime":956.6450000000001,"body":"mean that's become this massive existence on these"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":949.985,"endTime":956.6450000000001,"body":"campuses. But there's still something missing. And"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":956.6450000000001,"endTime":964.0550000000001,"body":"so I don't know it's so much about the students, but"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":956.6450000000001,"endTime":964.0550000000001,"body":"it is about how like what is it that we're missing"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":964.0550000000001,"endTime":969.965,"body":"or is this just something that always happens and we"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":964.0550000000001,"endTime":969.965,"body":"have to figure out how comfortable we want to be,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":969.965,"endTime":976.865,"body":"will be with it. And somewhere within that, I think"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":969.965,"endTime":976.865,"body":"is faculty also feeling just the more burden of so"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":976.865,"endTime":982.7750000000001,"body":"many things being asked of them? And this might be"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":976.865,"endTime":982.7750000000001,"body":"the most tangible, easily thing to point to."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":984.932,"endTime":990.662,"body":"Okay. So I'm hearing it's not that much"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":984.932,"endTime":990.662,"body":"different today than it has been over the last 400"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":990.662,"endTime":998.1500000000001,"body":"years. And that also faculty alone shouldn't be kind"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":990.662,"endTime":998.1500000000001,"body":"of carrying the burden for solving this problem."},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":999.0020000000001,"endTime":1006.599,"body":"I think I agree. I was going to take"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":999.0020000000001,"endTime":1006.599,"body":"this take. So but I agree with Lance that there's"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1006.599,"endTime":1011.3090000000001,"body":"only so much faculty you can do. And it's really,"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1006.599,"endTime":1011.3090000000001,"body":"really important that they are taking advantage of"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1011.3090000000001,"endTime":1017.849,"body":"other support services. Right. It shouldn't all be"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1011.3090000000001,"endTime":1017.849,"body":"on faculty. But I do think, you know, if we have had"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1017.849,"endTime":1025.139,"body":"this same problem for 400 years or whatever, it's"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1017.849,"endTime":1025.139,"body":"been right. Maybe it's time that we take some"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1025.139,"endTime":1030.029,"body":"responsibility for helping students learn how to"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1025.139,"endTime":1030.029,"body":"learn. Right. And you know, one thing I find myself"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1030.029,"endTime":1035.52,"body":"saying constantly these days and all the time is"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1030.029,"endTime":1035.52,"body":"that we can only teach the students that we have,"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1035.52,"endTime":1040.56,"body":"not the students that we wish we had. And I think"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1035.52,"endTime":1040.56,"body":"it's a reality that that there's a lot of students"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1040.8,"endTime":1045.69,"body":"who, through no fault of their own, really haven't"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1040.8,"endTime":1045.69,"body":"been adequately equipped with the skills that they"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1045.69,"endTime":1052.02,"body":"need to succeed in college. And I think this is a"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1045.69,"endTime":1052.02,"body":"system problem, a structural problem that we can't"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1052.02,"endTime":1057.06,"body":"solve alone. But I think there's some things that"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1052.02,"endTime":1057.06,"body":"faculty can do to mitigate it. And if it's our job"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1057.06,"endTime":1062.25,"body":"to facilitate learning, then I think we should also"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1057.06,"endTime":1062.25,"body":"be making sure that students have the skills that"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1062.25,"endTime":1063.6299999999999,"body":"they need to learn effectively."},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1064.47,"endTime":1065.58,"body":"I'm going to take it."},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1067.5,"endTime":1074.07,"body":"And once again, without disagreeing with anything"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1067.5,"endTime":1074.07,"body":"Lance or Emily have said, because I agree with all"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1074.07,"endTime":1082.08,"body":"of those things as well. But specifically thinking"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1074.07,"endTime":1082.08,"body":"about how my classroom is the same and different"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1082.08,"endTime":1087.0,"body":"from other classrooms on campus and what skills"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1082.08,"endTime":1087.0,"body":"students are going to need to be successful in my"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1087.0,"endTime":1096.71,"body":"classroom, it it's like a level of hubris on my part"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1087.0,"endTime":1096.71,"body":"to think that all of my students who have four or"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1096.71,"endTime":1102.71,"body":"five other faculty members this semester, plus their"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1096.71,"endTime":1102.71,"body":"entire history of education before me, are going to"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1102.71,"endTime":1108.4399999999998,"body":"know exactly what it's going to take to be"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1102.71,"endTime":1108.4399999999998,"body":"successful in the class that I've spent decades"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1108.4399999999998,"endTime":1117.26,"body":"refining and thinking about and studying and trying"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1108.4399999999998,"endTime":1117.26,"body":"to get perfect every year. So and I think if we're"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1117.26,"endTime":1124.22,"body":"not really careful as faculty, that we can fall into"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1117.26,"endTime":1124.22,"body":"that trap and say, Man, these students really aren't"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1124.22,"endTime":1130.07,"body":"getting my class. They're missing something they"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1124.22,"endTime":1130.07,"body":"lack studenting skills when really I haven't done"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1131.33,"endTime":1136.01,"body":"that process of breaking down, what are my actual"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1131.33,"endTime":1136.01,"body":"learning objectives? What are the skills that"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1136.01,"endTime":1140.1799999999998,"body":"students are going to need every step of the way?"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1136.01,"endTime":1140.1799999999998,"body":"And then how can I make sure I'm empowering them"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1140.81,"endTime":1145.82,"body":"with the tools for success rather than just assuming"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1140.81,"endTime":1145.82,"body":"that they're going to come ready, which I think is a"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1145.82,"endTime":1153.77,"body":"totally different issue from like if I hear the word"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1145.82,"endTime":1153.77,"body":"learning loss in connection with the last few years,"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1153.77,"endTime":1161.09,"body":"my head explodes like that's not possible in a human"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1153.77,"endTime":1161.09,"body":"brain, but whatever. But specifically thinking about"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1161.09,"endTime":1164.4299999999998,"body":"my classroom and how I approach my own students,"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1161.09,"endTime":1164.4299999999998,"body":"I'll take it. I'll take."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1164.4499999999998,"endTime":1170.81,"body":"You. Oh, I just want to the addendum to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1164.4499999999998,"endTime":1170.81,"body":"that. I think is also that piece of"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1172.4299999999998,"endTime":1182.9299999999998,"body":"it to the to what you were saying, Stacey, of like"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1172.4299999999998,"endTime":1182.9299999999998,"body":"often we step into the same classroom or like we we"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1183.22,"endTime":1191.24,"body":"go into these places to teach and we think we course"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1183.22,"endTime":1191.24,"body":"correct but it's with a different audience, right?"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1191.23,"endTime":1196.81,"body":"So like I think there's something about oh, I"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1191.23,"endTime":1196.81,"body":"thought I solved that problem. Right. And this is"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1196.82,"endTime":1201.1899999999998,"body":"also why I'm not saying this is this group, but like"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1196.82,"endTime":1201.1899999999998,"body":"many of us have seen and I've been guilty of like"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1201.52,"endTime":1207.56,"body":"the syllabus bloat where you get every possible"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1201.52,"endTime":1207.56,"body":"solution so your syllabus grows and grows in like I"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1207.56,"endTime":1214.54,"body":"think there's also a little bit of that. There's a"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1207.56,"endTime":1214.54,"body":"little bit of like, you know, the same things come"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1214.54,"endTime":1218.59,"body":"up and you think you're correcting form, but this is"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1214.54,"endTime":1218.59,"body":"a different audience. This is a different group of"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1218.6,"endTime":1222.02,"body":"learners. And even though you might have learned the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1218.6,"endTime":1222.02,"body":"lesson of what wasn't working, you haven't found a"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1222.01,"endTime":1227.0,"body":"way of like augmenting or adjusting that for who is"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1222.01,"endTime":1227.0,"body":"this new group?"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1229.26,"endTime":1231.27,"body":"Yeah, I think there's also"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1234.49,"endTime":1242.24,"body":"there's a note in this hot take of students being"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1234.49,"endTime":1242.24,"body":"deficient, right, that they're kind of coming in and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1242.24,"endTime":1247.55,"body":"they're lacking things that they should have had or"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1242.24,"endTime":1247.55,"body":"that they used to have or something. And I don't I'm"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1247.55,"endTime":1253.4199999999998,"body":"not super comfortable with that framing. I had on an"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1247.55,"endTime":1253.4199999999998,"body":"early episode of the podcast I had on Maryann"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1253.4199999999998,"endTime":1257.1699999999998,"body":"Winkelmes, who runs the Transparency and Teaching"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1253.4199999999998,"endTime":1257.1699999999998,"body":"and Learning Project. And one of the things she"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1257.1699999999998,"endTime":1264.04,"body":"argued was that students who come to college and she"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1257.1699999999998,"endTime":1264.04,"body":"was I think she was thinking traditional age"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1264.07,"endTime":1270.6699999999998,"body":"students, but but they may come to college with some"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1264.07,"endTime":1270.6699999999998,"body":"generic study skills that got them through high"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1270.6699999999998,"endTime":1276.37,"body":"school, but now they're in specific disciplines"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1270.6699999999998,"endTime":1276.37,"body":"needing to learn in disciplinary ways. And that's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1276.37,"endTime":1280.8999999999999,"body":"what Stacey's comment made me think of is like, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1276.37,"endTime":1280.8999999999999,"body":"maybe they have some studenting skills, but they've"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1280.8999999999999,"endTime":1287.02,"body":"never learned linear algebra in my class before,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1280.8999999999999,"endTime":1287.02,"body":"right? And and, and there are particular ways to go"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1287.02,"endTime":1294.6999999999998,"body":"about that that are more or less helpful. And so I'm"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1287.02,"endTime":1294.6999999999998,"body":"kind of comfortable saying, yeah, we should, we"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1294.6999999999998,"endTime":1301.1799999999998,"body":"should try to onboard students and kind of help them"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1294.6999999999998,"endTime":1301.1799999999998,"body":"develop those disciplinary skills. But saying that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1301.1799999999998,"endTime":1307.03,"body":"because, you know, I, I don't know. I'm I also feel"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1301.1799999999998,"endTime":1307.03,"body":"like weird stuff happened in the last four years."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1307.03,"endTime":1313.4499999999998,"body":"And so a lot of us are missing pieces of what we"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1307.03,"endTime":1313.4499999999998,"body":"would have been if there hadn't been a pandemic."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1313.81,"endTime":1318.1899999999998,"body":"Right. In terms of our social skills, in terms of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1313.81,"endTime":1318.1899999999998,"body":"how we live our lives. And so I don't know. I feel"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1318.1899999999998,"endTime":1322.75,"body":"like having a little grace for students who who had"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1318.1899999999998,"endTime":1322.75,"body":"a very different, you know, high school or middle"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1322.75,"endTime":1325.03,"body":"school experience than any of us expected."},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1327.27,"endTime":1332.77,"body":"That's fine.But  I was not a great"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1327.27,"endTime":1332.77,"body":"college student or a great grad student. I just, you"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1332.77,"endTime":1338.9199999999998,"body":"know, spent a lot of time trying to get by on witty"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1332.77,"endTime":1338.9199999999998,"body":"comments and charm and things that absolutely were"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1338.9199999999998,"endTime":1348.1899999999998,"body":"not great study skills, but, you know, that's that's"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1338.9199999999998,"endTime":1348.1899999999998,"body":"like part of the learning process is throwing a"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1348.1899999999998,"endTime":1353.71,"body":"bunch of stuff at it, figuring out what works and"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1348.1899999999998,"endTime":1353.71,"body":"finding a field where you're excited about the"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1353.71,"endTime":1359.52,"body":"processes it actually takes to get to an end point."},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1353.71,"endTime":1359.52,"body":"I was an okay student. I want to go back and I was"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1359.52,"endTime":1359.62,"body":"fine."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1363.1799999999998,"endTime":1368.1799999999998,"body":"I mean, I didn't know what I was doing"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1363.1799999999998,"endTime":1368.1799999999998,"body":"either, right? Like I was a great student. I got A's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1368.1799999999998,"endTime":1374.4499999999998,"body":"all the time, but I never I never felt like I was"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1368.1799999999998,"endTime":1374.4499999999998,"body":"just kind of blindly following some tasks that were"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1374.4499999999998,"endTime":1381.6799999999998,"body":"in front of me. And and I appreciate all the assets"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1374.4499999999998,"endTime":1381.6799999999998,"body":"I had to bring to that education. Right? That a lot"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1381.6799999999998,"endTime":1387.98,"body":"of other students don't have. But yeah, it is. It is"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1381.6799999999998,"endTime":1387.98,"body":"part of the process. It's part of it. It's just it's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1388.25,"endTime":1392.1799999999998,"body":"part of education is to figure out how to do"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1388.25,"endTime":1392.1799999999998,"body":"education and how to make it meaningful for yourself."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1393.8899999999999,"endTime":1399.6399999999999,"body":"Okay. Speaking of no, there's not a segue way here."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1393.8899999999999,"endTime":1399.6399999999999,"body":"I want to talk about AI."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1401.46,"endTime":1406.0,"body":"So here's our next hot take. All right. I was I was"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1401.46,"endTime":1406.0,"body":"struggling, but there's no seque,"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1408.6999999999998,"endTime":1410.8899999999999,"body":"Generative AI needs no segue."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1411.34,"endTime":1411.49,"body":"Right"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1413.1699999999998,"endTime":1414.82,"body":"It's already there."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1415.6999999999998,"endTime":1423.9299999999998,"body":"It's in the room with you. It's on the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1415.6999999999998,"endTime":1423.9299999999998,"body":"phone right, right now. Okay. So Jose Antonio Bowen"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1423.9399999999998,"endTime":1431.8799999999999,"body":"and C. Edward Watson have a new book out on teaching"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1423.9399999999998,"endTime":1431.8799999999999,"body":"with AI, and they wrote in an op ed recently. They"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1431.8899999999999,"endTime":1437.22,"body":"made the argument and here's so here's a hot take."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1431.8899999999999,"endTime":1437.22,"body":"Generative AI should handle the routine and tedious"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1437.22,"endTime":1444.6,"body":"work of an instructor, freeing up time for, quote,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1437.22,"endTime":1444.6,"body":"the most important educational and relational tasks."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1447.25,"endTime":1451.03,"body":"Stacey, I would like to start with you. Are you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1447.25,"endTime":1451.03,"body":"going to take that or leave it?"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1452.28,"endTime":1455.1999999999998,"body":"I'm leave that one so bad"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1457.08,"endTime":1464.52,"body":"I would like more detail about what are the routine"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1457.08,"endTime":1464.52,"body":"and tedious tasks. Because one thing that is a huge"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1464.55,"endTime":1470.4299999999998,"body":"time investment every semester is writing a"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1464.55,"endTime":1470.4299999999998,"body":"recommendation letter is for my students. So am I"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1470.4299999999998,"endTime":1475.1699999999998,"body":"supposed to hand that over to AI instead of going"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1470.4299999999998,"endTime":1475.1699999999998,"body":"back through our work together over the last few"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1475.1699999999998,"endTime":1480.78,"body":"years, thinking about who they are and what their"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1475.1699999999998,"endTime":1480.78,"body":"goals are and really giving them the best shot at"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1481.05,"endTime":1487.56,"body":"med school or their first job or whatever it is I'm"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1481.05,"endTime":1487.56,"body":"trying to recommend them for. Or is it that I'm"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1487.56,"endTime":1494.1,"body":"using AI to respond to student questions that are"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1487.56,"endTime":1494.1,"body":"thoughtful when they're really maybe in distress and"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1494.1,"endTime":1499.47,"body":"I have information they need, but instead I'm using"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1494.1,"endTime":1499.47,"body":"an AI to generate something feasible or plausible?"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1500.52,"endTime":1505.26,"body":"Is it writing lesson plans where I'm actually an"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1500.52,"endTime":1505.26,"body":"expert who's been trained in it and has been"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1505.29,"endTime":1510.51,"body":"creative in this field for decades? But I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1505.29,"endTime":1510.51,"body":"let this machine read through all of my syllabuses"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1510.51,"endTime":1516.27,"body":"for the last 20 years and come up with something. I"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1510.51,"endTime":1516.27,"body":"just I don't see what the routine tasks are that"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1516.27,"endTime":1523.9199999999998,"body":"don't require all of me, all of my compassion and"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1516.27,"endTime":1523.9199999999998,"body":"all of my creativity. And that is why this job is so"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1523.9199999999998,"endTime":1529.32,"body":"hard, because we want to teach and do service and do"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1523.9199999999998,"endTime":1529.32,"body":"research and be there for our students. And it takes"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1529.32,"endTime":1535.05,"body":"so much of us to get it done and we have to make"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1529.32,"endTime":1535.05,"body":"hard choices. But I don't think farming stuff out to"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":1535.05,"endTime":1537.06,"body":"my laptop is the right choice."},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1538.34,"endTime":1543.98,"body":"I'm going to totally agree with"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1538.34,"endTime":1543.98,"body":"Stacey. I leave this take and I'll tell you so I was"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1543.98,"endTime":1550.85,"body":"reading through the article. Here are some of the"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1543.98,"endTime":1550.85,"body":"things that they said could be outsourced to AI. One"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1550.85,"endTime":1558.83,"body":"is writing syllabus policies. One is finding course"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1550.85,"endTime":1558.83,"body":"materials. One is providing grades and feedback on"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1558.83,"endTime":1567.9199999999998,"body":"student work. Right. And I think, you know, this"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1558.83,"endTime":1567.9199999999998,"body":"this take kind of started with this idea that that"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1568.1,"endTime":1574.1299999999999,"body":"AI can free up time for the most important"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1568.1,"endTime":1574.1299999999999,"body":"educational and relational tasks. That's the direct"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1574.1299999999999,"endTime":1580.07,"body":"quote. And I think the premise of this is totally"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1574.1299999999999,"endTime":1580.07,"body":"wrong because it assumes that there is any work that"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1580.07,"endTime":1585.32,"body":"is not relational right. Like I think all of these"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1580.07,"endTime":1585.32,"body":"tasks are highly relational. If I'm writing syllabus"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1585.32,"endTime":1590.84,"body":"policies, I want my students to hear my voice and"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1585.32,"endTime":1590.84,"body":"like know who I am in my syllabus policies. If I'm"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1590.84,"endTime":1594.74,"body":"responding to their work, if I'm giving them"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1590.84,"endTime":1594.74,"body":"feedback on their writing, they need to know that"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1594.74,"endTime":1601.1599999999999,"body":"that's me on the other end, right? It's not a thing"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1594.74,"endTime":1601.1599999999999,"body":"that I could automate, especially because, you know,"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1601.1599999999999,"endTime":1606.23,"body":"the most effective and durable forms of learning"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1601.1599999999999,"endTime":1606.23,"body":"happened in the context of a relationship. And"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1606.59,"endTime":1612.32,"body":"outsourcing teaching to AI is a great way to lose"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1606.59,"endTime":1612.32,"body":"credibility with students and lose that relationship"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1612.32,"endTime":1617.57,"body":"and lose a lot of potential for learning. So, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1612.32,"endTime":1617.57,"body":"I think if faculty feel like they can't concentrate"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1617.57,"endTime":1624.23,"body":"on those important tasks because they're too busy"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1617.57,"endTime":1624.23,"body":"doing other things or they're overwhelmed, then we"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1624.23,"endTime":1630.98,"body":"should decrease faculty workload or decrease class"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1624.23,"endTime":1630.98,"body":"sizes rather than using AI as an excuse to just"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1630.98,"endTime":1634.1299999999999,"body":"continuously ramp up the expectations for"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1630.98,"endTime":1634.1299999999999,"body":"productivity."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1636.34,"endTime":1647.3899999999999,"body":"So yeah, if I was in a place that I"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1636.34,"endTime":1647.3899999999999,"body":"felt more utopic, I would take it. But I have to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1647.3899999999999,"endTime":1652.9099999999999,"body":"leave it, and I actually just finished their book"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1647.3899999999999,"endTime":1652.9099999999999,"body":"this morning. I listen to the audiobook"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1654.53,"endTime":1657.35,"body":"and like there's lots of great stuff there."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1659.81,"endTime":1665.6299999999999,"body":"I do think there are places where they're like, I"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1659.81,"endTime":1665.6299999999999,"body":"think about the pure, some of the other bureaucratic"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1666.11,"endTime":1672.6999999999998,"body":"responsibilities of some of the work that we do that"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1666.11,"endTime":1672.6999999999998,"body":"is more like not with the students, but shuffling"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1672.6999999999998,"endTime":1675.34,"body":"papers to within, within, you know,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1677.8999999999999,"endTime":1679.52,"body":"chairs, deans, directors, etc.."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1681.4099999999999,"endTime":1689.1499999999999,"body":"So like, Oh yeah, sure, I could see some spaces"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1681.4099999999999,"endTime":1689.1499999999999,"body":"where like this would be great to then allow for the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1689.1499999999999,"endTime":1691.9399999999998,"body":"more 1 to 1, the more relationally oriented."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1693.87,"endTime":1702.6899999999998,"body":"But even if those tools got to the point where you"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1693.87,"endTime":1702.6899999999998,"body":"could actually use them in that way, it's not going"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1702.6899999999998,"endTime":1710.97,"body":"to free anything up. This is a tool of capitalism."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1702.6899999999998,"endTime":1710.97,"body":"And what this means is for every task it frees up"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1711.1799999999998,"endTime":1716.9399999999998,"body":"like administration will find new ones to fill those"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1711.1799999999998,"endTime":1716.9399999999998,"body":"gaps. And this is a thing for me with with"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1717.1799999999998,"endTime":1721.26,"body":"generative AI, for all the work that I've done and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1717.1799999999998,"endTime":1721.26,"body":"lots of talks and working with faculty and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1721.25,"endTime":1726.59,"body":"institutions and all of that, like still have to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1721.25,"endTime":1726.59,"body":"like at the end of the day, this is a tool of like"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1726.59,"endTime":1736.53,"body":"hyper productivity and the goal is never to decrease"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1726.59,"endTime":1736.53,"body":"the work, right? Like it or the amount of time we're"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1736.53,"endTime":1742.02,"body":"working on things right So there's never going to be"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1736.53,"endTime":1742.02,"body":"a like, oh you only have to work 30 hours now. You"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1742.02,"endTime":1751.56,"body":"only have to work 25. It is, oh, you can now do even"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1742.02,"endTime":1751.56,"body":"more. And I expect that the new bar is set and that"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1751.56,"endTime":1758.49,"body":"new bar still requires even more cognitive work from"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1751.56,"endTime":1758.49,"body":"us, so we get even more exhausted. Oh, if this frees"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1758.49,"endTime":1762.75,"body":"up things like here's the thing is this frees up"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1758.49,"endTime":1762.75,"body":"things so you can be more relational with students."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1763.02,"endTime":1765.03,"body":"So let's cram ten more students into your course."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1766.98,"endTime":1771.25,"body":"Right? You've lost the gain that you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1766.98,"endTime":1771.25,"body":"just achieved if there was such a gain, right?"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1772.1799999999998,"endTime":1778.06,"body":"Yep. So for me, it's it's like, man,if"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1772.1799999999998,"endTime":1778.06,"body":"we lived in a different world, I could maybe take it,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1778.06,"endTime":1780.04,"body":"but I'm a leave it. Wow."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1780.03,"endTime":1784.1399999999999,"body":"Okay. I think that's our first"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1780.03,"endTime":1784.1399999999999,"body":"consensus on one of these hot takes."},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1785.25,"endTime":1787.03,"body":"You aren't going to play devil's"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":1785.25,"endTime":1787.03,"body":"advocate Derek?"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1788.49,"endTime":1797.08,"body":"I can. Try. Yeah. You know, there's a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1788.49,"endTime":1797.08,"body":"there's an appeal here, right? That somehow we wish"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1797.08,"endTime":1804.28,"body":"we had more time for the kind of heart of education."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1797.08,"endTime":1804.28,"body":"Right. But I"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1806.4499999999998,"endTime":1811.34,"body":"you know, I think a lot of faculty can relate to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1806.4499999999998,"endTime":1811.34,"body":"that. But I think what the three of you have"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1811.34,"endTime":1817.87,"body":"articulated is that it's not clear that AI will save"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1811.34,"endTime":1817.87,"body":"time in a significant way that that would get us"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1817.87,"endTime":1823.36,"body":"there. Right. So I'll poke a little bit. So, Lance,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1817.87,"endTime":1823.36,"body":"I know one of the things you've been doing in your"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1823.3999999999999,"endTime":1828.4299999999998,"body":"your blog is having AI read and summarize research"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1823.3999999999999,"endTime":1828.4299999999998,"body":"literature for you."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1830.62,"endTime":1837.37,"body":"Do you feel like that that has saved you time, that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1830.62,"endTime":1837.37,"body":"particular use of AI, has that made you has that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1837.37,"endTime":1841.87,"body":"changed kind of how you spend your time with it?"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1837.37,"endTime":1841.87,"body":"That's not teaching, right? It's a it's going to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1841.87,"endTime":1847.36,"body":"teaching adjacent. But but do you see a potential"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1841.87,"endTime":1847.36,"body":"upside for using AI in that context?"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1849.4399999999998,"endTime":1858.79,"body":"I think it's it's reaffirmed. I hope it"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1849.4399999999998,"endTime":1858.79,"body":"does not save me time in any sense other than it"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1858.79,"endTime":1865.81,"body":"gives me a stronger sense of what's in an article."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1858.79,"endTime":1865.81,"body":"If it's worth going into for a deeper dive. The"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1865.81,"endTime":1871.51,"body":"summaries, you know, and I'll continue to tweak the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1865.81,"endTime":1871.51,"body":"questions and play with it and stuff like that. But"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1871.51,"endTime":1879.9299999999998,"body":"the summaries are okay. Like they don't. They don't."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1871.51,"endTime":1879.9299999999998,"body":"This is something I think about a lot. It's like to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1879.9299999999998,"endTime":1886.1399999999999,"body":"really use it well. You need like a deep you need"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1879.9299999999998,"endTime":1886.1399999999999,"body":"two buckets, like the bucket of understanding how"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1886.1699999999998,"endTime":1891.75,"body":"large language models work and how generative AI"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1886.1699999999998,"endTime":1891.75,"body":"works, beginning a good understanding of what the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1891.77,"endTime":1896.31,"body":"the words are that are or images are, that is, you"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1891.77,"endTime":1896.31,"body":"know, popping up on the screen. And then you need"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1896.31,"endTime":1902.1899999999998,"body":"the like the domain knowledge. And with my domain"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1896.31,"endTime":1902.1899999999998,"body":"knowledge, it's enough to know that like these"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1902.1899999999998,"endTime":1908.08,"body":"summaries are there's sometimes like there's a few"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1902.1899999999998,"endTime":1908.08,"body":"recently that I'm like, oh that's curious. Like, I"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1908.08,"endTime":1916.84,"body":"do want to go back and look and explore. But that"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1908.08,"endTime":1916.84,"body":"hasn't really say like it's we all have this. I'll"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1916.84,"endTime":1924.32,"body":"take a step back of like, we all have this. I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1916.84,"endTime":1924.32,"body":"all of us have the giant to read list of books as"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1924.32,"endTime":1933.32,"body":"well as the giant to read folder of articles. And so"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1924.32,"endTime":1933.32,"body":"this is maybe help me move like it's giving me a way"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1933.32,"endTime":1937.6699999999998,"body":"to work, not feel as overwhelmed about those"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1933.32,"endTime":1937.6699999999998,"body":"articles, which is great."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1939.6599999999999,"endTime":1943.82,"body":"I don't know that it saves me time because I'm"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1939.6599999999999,"endTime":1943.82,"body":"mostly trying to do this as like a way of"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1943.82,"endTime":1947.36,"body":"demonstrating or sharing to share some of the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1943.82,"endTime":1947.36,"body":"research out there. So that other people might go"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1947.36,"endTime":1952.6399999999999,"body":"and delve in a little bit deeper to if they see"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1947.36,"endTime":1952.6399999999999,"body":"something they like. So I'm doing it more as a"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1952.79,"endTime":1959.33,"body":"interesting experiment than I am feeling like, Oh"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1952.79,"endTime":1959.33,"body":"wow. I feel like I've really gained a deeper"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1959.33,"endTime":1963.77,"body":"understanding about whatever this particular article"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1959.33,"endTime":1963.77,"body":"or research is doing."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1963.77,"endTime":1969.6799999999998,"body":"Gotcha. Yeah. Quick sidebar, having"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1963.77,"endTime":1969.6799999999998,"body":"somewhat recently moved out of an office that I had"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1969.6799999999998,"endTime":1972.72,"body":"inhabited for ten years. That stack"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1973.23,"endTime":1973.8899999999999,"body":"How big was the stack?"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1973.8899999999999,"endTime":1975.75,"body":"was like a foot tall."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1975.87,"endTime":1979.1999999999998,"body":"It was a file, it was a file folder of"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1975.87,"endTime":1979.1999999999998,"body":"a."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1979.59,"endTime":1984.24,"body":"Shredded and recycled every single one."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1979.59,"endTime":1984.24,"body":"I just cleaned the slate. It's not going to happen."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1984.24,"endTime":1988.71,"body":"If I haven't read them in ten years, I'm not going"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1984.24,"endTime":1988.71,"body":"to read them. Yeah. So let me continue to play"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1988.71,"endTime":1994.83,"body":"devil's advocate here for a second and I'll pitch"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1988.71,"endTime":1994.83,"body":"this to Emily or Stacy if you want to weigh in. So I"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1994.83,"endTime":2001.6299999999999,"body":"have taught enough writing to know that there are"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1994.83,"endTime":2001.6299999999999,"body":"moves that students make that need feedback that are"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2001.6299999999999,"endTime":2008.09,"body":"very common and happen a lot. Right? Whether it's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2001.6299999999999,"endTime":2008.09,"body":"grammar or syntax or just kind of simple rhetorical"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2008.09,"endTime":2014.06,"body":"moves that they're making. Back on Twitter, back in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2008.09,"endTime":2014.06,"body":"the old days, there was a hashtag called hashtag"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2014.06,"endTime":2018.8,"body":"need a red stamp. Like these things that students do"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2014.06,"endTime":2018.8,"body":"so frequently that I wish I just had a stamp, I"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2018.8,"endTime":2023.96,"body":"could just put it on there. Right. And there are"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2018.8,"endTime":2023.96,"body":"there are grading assistant tools that will actually"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2023.96,"endTime":2029.0,"body":"allow you to quickly and easily copy and paste"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2023.96,"endTime":2029.0,"body":"feedback on multiple student assignments. So might"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2029.0,"endTime":2033.77,"body":"that be a place where AI could take a first pass"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2029.0,"endTime":2033.77,"body":"through student writing, give some low level"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2033.77,"endTime":2038.6699999999998,"body":"feedback to students, and then you look at a second"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2033.77,"endTime":2038.6699999999998,"body":"draft of the student's have responded to after that,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2038.6899999999998,"endTime":2039.3799999999999,"body":"that first draft."},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2042.82,"endTime":2050.2,"body":"I think it depends a great deal on"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2042.82,"endTime":2050.2,"body":"what kind of platform we're talking about, how it"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2050.2,"endTime":2058.21,"body":"gives feedback, how it's prompted. I don't fully"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2050.2,"endTime":2058.21,"body":"trust a student to just not a student. I don't fully"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2058.21,"endTime":2064.39,"body":"trust an AI platform to be able to look at student"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2058.21,"endTime":2064.39,"body":"work and say, you know, here's what needs to be done."},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2065.02,"endTime":2068.98,"body":"And especially at a first pass, right, The things"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2065.02,"endTime":2068.98,"body":"that I would trust at the most are lower order"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2068.98,"endTime":2075.75,"body":"concerns like grammar and not kind of higher order"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2068.98,"endTime":2075.75,"body":"concerns. And it's no use tinkering with the grammar"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2075.76,"endTime":2082.63,"body":"if your paper is totally off topic. Right? And so I"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2075.76,"endTime":2082.63,"body":"mean that I think that's a problem. And the other"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2082.63,"endTime":2089.8199999999997,"body":"thing is just, you know, if students want to do that"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2082.63,"endTime":2089.8199999999997,"body":"to improve their work, I'm okay with students trying"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2089.99,"endTime":2094.47,"body":"to figure out how to do that and even helping them"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2089.99,"endTime":2094.47,"body":"figure out how to do that. But I'm never going to"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2094.47,"endTime":2101.37,"body":"take a paper that a student gives to me and give"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2094.47,"endTime":2101.37,"body":"that to an AI and say, give the student feedback."},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2101.37,"endTime":2108.06,"body":"Right? Because I think that just I think that just"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2101.37,"endTime":2108.06,"body":"totally ruins the the chance that I have at a"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2108.06,"endTime":2113.25,"body":"relationship and a real connection and exchange with"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2108.06,"endTime":2113.25,"body":"that student."},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2115.64,"endTime":2121.87,"body":"So I in my field applied linguistics"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2115.64,"endTime":2121.87,"body":"error correction is something that we think about"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2121.87,"endTime":2128.56,"body":"and talk about and research quite often. So I go"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2121.87,"endTime":2128.56,"body":"back to my belief that all learning is language"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2128.56,"endTime":2134.11,"body":"learning because everything we learn is mediated"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2128.56,"endTime":2134.11,"body":"through language and that if it applies to error"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2134.11,"endTime":2138.97,"body":"correction for language learning, it applies for"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2134.11,"endTime":2138.97,"body":"error correction for all sorts of learning. And so"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2138.97,"endTime":2144.04,"body":"there's there's really conflicting evidence, but"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2138.97,"endTime":2144.04,"body":"there's a few things that seem to be true. And one"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2144.04,"endTime":2150.7,"body":"is pointing out student's mistakes has almost no"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2144.04,"endTime":2150.7,"body":"effect on their future performance. It can affect a"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2150.7,"endTime":2155.95,"body":"lot of things like your relationship with them,"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2150.7,"endTime":2155.95,"body":"their belief in their ability to learn or improve"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2155.95,"endTime":2163.06,"body":"over time. It can affect the very next thing that"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2155.95,"endTime":2163.06,"body":"they do. Like you point out that they made this"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2163.06,"endTime":2167.71,"body":"grammatical error and then very next time they"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2163.06,"endTime":2167.71,"body":"correct that grammatical error. But if you're trying"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2167.71,"endTime":2173.86,"body":"to correct a pattern over time, it has almost no"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2167.71,"endTime":2173.86,"body":"effect. And there are things you can do to help"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2173.86,"endTime":2179.41,"body":"students mature into different ways of writing or"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2173.86,"endTime":2179.41,"body":"different ways of expressing themselves. But a red"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2179.41,"endTime":2182.92,"body":"stamp won't help with that. So even if you're trying"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2179.41,"endTime":2182.92,"body":"to do that,"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2185.17,"endTime":2188.89,"body":"why why are you wasting student's time on something"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2185.17,"endTime":2188.89,"body":"that research"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2190.74,"endTime":2195.0,"body":"doesn't conclusively say is going to help one way or"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2190.74,"endTime":2195.0,"body":"the other? But there's a lot of evidence it's not."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2195.91,"endTime":2200.11,"body":"Well, and I'm going to I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2195.91,"endTime":2200.11,"body":"quote Marc Watkins, who who's in the next hot take."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2200.11,"endTime":2205.99,"body":"But Also, I interviewed him recently for the podcast,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2200.11,"endTime":2205.99,"body":"and he pointed out that if you if you give an essay"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2205.99,"endTime":2213.18,"body":"to a ChatGPT and ask it for like help me make it"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2205.99,"endTime":2213.18,"body":"better, it will give you some advice. And if you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2213.36,"endTime":2217.3199999999997,"body":"change it and ask it again, it will give you some"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2213.36,"endTime":2217.3199999999997,"body":"advice. And if you change it like it's just going to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2217.3199999999997,"endTime":2222.21,"body":"keep giving you things to fix, right? There's no end"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2217.3199999999997,"endTime":2222.21,"body":"to it. That's how it's designed, which is, to your"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2222.21,"endTime":2226.17,"body":"point, Lance like we have to know what these systems"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2222.21,"endTime":2226.17,"body":"are actually doing, right? It's going to keep coming"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2226.17,"endTime":2231.24,"body":"up with something that you could change. But that's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2226.17,"endTime":2231.24,"body":"not that's not necessarily how you help someone be a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2231.24,"endTime":2236.5499999999997,"body":"better writer. Right. Okay. So here's my next hot"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2231.24,"endTime":2236.5499999999997,"body":"take. It is also AI related. And as mentioned, it's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2236.5499999999997,"endTime":2240.7799999999997,"body":"coming out of an article by our Mississippi"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2236.5499999999997,"endTime":2240.7799999999997,"body":"colleague Marc Watkins."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2242.74,"endTime":2248.62,"body":"At a time when students use AI reading assistants to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2242.74,"endTime":2248.62,"body":"create their own bespoke summaries of important"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2248.62,"endTime":2254.7,"body":"texts. Quote, This is a quote from Marc. We should"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2248.62,"endTime":2254.7,"body":"introduce friction into the reading process of a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2254.7,"endTime":2260.43,"body":"digital text, not to make it more challenging, but"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2254.7,"endTime":2260.43,"body":"to ensure students slow down and process a text."},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2263.61,"endTime":2270.39,"body":"I'm happy to go first on this one. I"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2263.61,"endTime":2270.39,"body":"love processing and friction while reading. I think"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2270.69,"endTime":2278.97,"body":"I will take this and I don't think it has anything"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2270.69,"endTime":2278.97,"body":"to do with AI or digital reading. I think that all"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2278.97,"endTime":2285.54,"body":"of us read for big themes naturally for like big"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2278.97,"endTime":2285.54,"body":"general comprehension. We're just trying to get"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2285.54,"endTime":2292.17,"body":"through text, even texts we're, enjoying. We're"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2285.54,"endTime":2292.17,"body":"trying to plow through them. And the luxury of a"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2292.17,"endTime":2298.77,"body":"college classroom or really of any classroom is that"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2292.17,"endTime":2298.77,"body":"we get to slow down and really spend time with texts"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2298.77,"endTime":2305.61,"body":"in a way we don't outside of classrooms very often."},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2298.77,"endTime":2305.61,"body":"So, yes, this is where we introduce friction. This"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2305.61,"endTime":2311.64,"body":"is where we in intentionally ask students to stop"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2305.61,"endTime":2311.64,"body":"and do processing activities to make sure they're"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2311.64,"endTime":2316.7999999999997,"body":"not just glossing over words, but they're they're"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2311.64,"endTime":2316.7999999999997,"body":"imagining they're"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2318.56,"endTime":2325.2799999999997,"body":"making new meaning. They're their sense making with"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2318.56,"endTime":2325.2799999999997,"body":"things. They're posing questions or creating. That's"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2325.2799999999997,"endTime":2329.44,"body":"the good stuff. That's what that's what education is."},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2325.2799999999997,"endTime":2329.44,"body":"love that."},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2330.7,"endTime":2331.12,"body":"Emily"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2333.2599999999998,"endTime":2338.66,"body":"Yeah. I am also going to take this take and not just"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2333.2599999999998,"endTime":2338.66,"body":"because Marc and I teach in the same"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2338.66,"endTime":2346.19,"body":"department. I agree with with Stacy. You know, one"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2338.66,"endTime":2346.19,"body":"of the things to keep in mind is that there are lots"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2346.19,"endTime":2351.38,"body":"of different types of reading, right? And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2346.19,"endTime":2351.38,"body":"we're not always reading just to summarize or"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2351.38,"endTime":2357.59,"body":"extract information, which is kind of what an AI"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2351.38,"endTime":2357.59,"body":"reading assistant does. You know, I teach in writing"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2357.59,"endTime":2364.16,"body":"and I also teach literature. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2357.59,"endTime":2364.16,"body":"sometimes when we read literature, we aren't just"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2364.52,"endTime":2369.92,"body":"reading to get the plot right. We're reading to"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2364.52,"endTime":2369.92,"body":"ponder the language and make connections with our"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2369.92,"endTime":2376.0699999999997,"body":"own experiences or like, God forbid, enjoy how the"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2369.92,"endTime":2376.0699999999997,"body":"language works or the sound of it, right? I mean,"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2376.0699999999997,"endTime":2381.62,"body":"could you imagine asking an AI to like, summarize"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2376.0699999999997,"endTime":2381.62,"body":"the love song of J. Alfred Prufrock? Like that would"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2381.65,"endTime":2389.21,"body":"totally defeat the purpose of reading it. And I. I"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2381.65,"endTime":2389.21,"body":"can imagine contexts in which reading assistants can"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2389.21,"endTime":2396.5299999999997,"body":"be useful, right? Maybe I want to help students"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2389.21,"endTime":2396.5299999999997,"body":"engage with a scholarly article or a piece of"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2396.5299999999997,"endTime":2401.72,"body":"literary theory. Right? And I don't really need them."},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2396.5299999999997,"endTime":2401.72,"body":"It's not part of my goal for the class that they"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2402.02,"endTime":2408.7999999999997,"body":"learn how to dig in and do that like independently."},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2402.02,"endTime":2408.7999999999997,"body":"That's kind of graduate school level stuff, but"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2408.7999999999997,"endTime":2413.81,"body":"maybe I want them to engage with the ideas so they"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2408.7999999999997,"endTime":2413.81,"body":"can use an AI reading assistant to help them parse"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2413.81,"endTime":2420.11,"body":"the article. So like, in that way maybe it would be"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2413.81,"endTime":2420.11,"body":"useful. But I think, you know, we've been having a"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2420.11,"endTime":2427.04,"body":"lot of debates on social media about a perceived"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2420.11,"endTime":2427.04,"body":"decline in student reading skills, and I don't know"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2427.04,"endTime":2431.84,"body":"kind of where the evidence is on that. Anecdotally,"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2427.04,"endTime":2431.84,"body":"it seems to be the case that a lot of students are"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2431.84,"endTime":2436.52,"body":"not coming in with the same kinds of reading skills"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2431.84,"endTime":2436.52,"body":"that they have in the past or maybe strengths in"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2436.52,"endTime":2443.42,"body":"other areas. And so I do think it's important even"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2436.52,"endTime":2443.42,"body":"when when students do need to simply summarize or"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2443.42,"endTime":2447.62,"body":"extract information, that they'd be able to do that"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2443.42,"endTime":2447.62,"body":"on their own. And I think introducing a reading"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2447.62,"endTime":2456.08,"body":"assistant into that process too soon can really, you"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2447.62,"endTime":2456.08,"body":"know, impede their learning. So, you know, a lot"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2456.08,"endTime":2461.87,"body":"depends on context, a lot depends on your goals, a"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2456.08,"endTime":2461.87,"body":"lot depends on the students skills and strengths,"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2461.87,"endTime":2467.24,"body":"right? I it's it's really complicated. But in"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2461.87,"endTime":2467.24,"body":"general, yes, I agree with Stacy that like slowing"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2467.24,"endTime":2474.95,"body":"down and doing that work, that's not just purely"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2467.24,"endTime":2474.95,"body":"extracting information is is one of the benefits of"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2474.98,"endTime":2475.73,"body":"being in college."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2478.13,"endTime":2486.94,"body":"I'm going to go with leave it. Oh yeah,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2478.13,"endTime":2486.94,"body":"yeah I zigged, I think and I'll tell you I'll tell"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2486.94,"endTime":2494.74,"body":"you why is I blame Foucault I've talked about this"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2486.94,"endTime":2494.74,"body":"before in this work. I will blame Foucault of trying"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2495.2799999999997,"endTime":2501.79,"body":"in in graduate school, trying to read through"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2495.2799999999997,"endTime":2501.79,"body":"Foucault in a class with other students where there"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2501.79,"endTime":2507.19,"body":"was slowing down in and talking about different like"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2501.79,"endTime":2507.19,"body":"we were only reading 20 pages of history of"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2507.19,"endTime":2513.19,"body":"sexuality and them slowing down and being able to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2507.19,"endTime":2513.19,"body":"talk about things. And I'm still like flipping the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2513.19,"endTime":2522.2799999999997,"body":"book upside down, thinking I need a secret decoder"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2513.19,"endTime":2522.2799999999997,"body":"for it and like in I consider myself a reader, right?"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2522.2799999999997,"endTime":2528.2999999999997,"body":"Like, like that is that is a core part of my"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2522.2799999999997,"endTime":2528.2999999999997,"body":"identity of reading hundreds of books each year or"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2528.58,"endTime":2536.17,"body":"both, a mixture of reading and listening to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2528.58,"endTime":2536.17,"body":"audiobooks. And so I think this idea of an assistant"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2536.17,"endTime":2544.12,"body":"of something that is there to step in is also really"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2536.17,"endTime":2544.12,"body":"important. Like there are still lots of texts that"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2544.12,"endTime":2553.2,"body":"it doesn't matter how slow like slow down in the you"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2544.12,"endTime":2553.2,"body":"know, it doesn't matter. It's it is extremely hard"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2553.2,"endTime":2560.25,"body":"for me to get and I'm never quite sure that I get it."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2553.2,"endTime":2560.25,"body":"So there somewhere within this is like, how do we"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2560.25,"endTime":2566.61,"body":"build better confidence of readers? Maybe that's"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2560.25,"endTime":2566.61,"body":"part of what this is, but I've just had so many"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2566.61,"endTime":2574.64,"body":"reading experiences that are like, I don't even feel"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2566.61,"endTime":2574.64,"body":"comfortable in being able to summarize, never mind,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2574.64,"endTime":2582.98,"body":"analyze or like understand what it is that I'm"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2574.64,"endTime":2582.98,"body":"reading. So I think about learners like that, that"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2582.98,"endTime":2588.2599999999998,"body":"that assistant would be helpful. I think about, you"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2582.98,"endTime":2588.2599999999998,"body":"know, folks that are dyslexic, which I know this is"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2588.2599999999998,"endTime":2596.0,"body":"just kind of the catch all. But like, man, that,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2588.2599999999998,"endTime":2596.0,"body":"that, that assistant feels really powerful. Like for"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2596.0,"endTime":2602.6,"body":"me, a game changer was audiobooks. I started"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2596.0,"endTime":2602.6,"body":"listening to them in high school and like tone is"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2602.6,"endTime":2608.21,"body":"something that was completely oblivious to me in"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2602.6,"endTime":2608.21,"body":"reading. Like I read Hitchhiker's Guide to the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2608.21,"endTime":2613.97,"body":"Galaxy. I tried to read that like seven times in"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2608.21,"endTime":2613.97,"body":"like middle school and high school. Everyone's like,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2613.97,"endTime":2617.84,"body":"You should read it. It's great. I kept trying to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2613.97,"endTime":2617.84,"body":"read it. It made no sense. And then I listened to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2617.84,"endTime":2625.16,"body":"the audiobook and it was, you know, it was read by"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2617.84,"endTime":2625.16,"body":"Douglas Adams and it was this like British voice and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2625.16,"endTime":2630.59,"body":"like that, between the tone and the delivery is like,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2625.16,"endTime":2630.59,"body":"Oh, this supposed to be funny and oh, I'm getting"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2630.59,"endTime":2635.66,"body":"the lines. It's like, so I just think there's so"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2630.59,"endTime":2635.66,"body":"much of that and so many different types of writing"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2635.66,"endTime":2641.06,"body":"and so many different types of writing are doing"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2635.66,"endTime":2641.06,"body":"different things that any time we can give road"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2641.06,"endTime":2648.65,"body":"signs and that something can be a little more help"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2641.06,"endTime":2648.65,"body":"to draw out in the moment, I do think leads us to be"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2648.65,"endTime":2652.31,"body":"better readers, and I don't think it can always"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2648.65,"endTime":2652.31,"body":"happen in class, and I don't think students can"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2652.31,"endTime":2657.08,"body":"always feel comfortable in class. Like I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2652.31,"endTime":2657.08,"body":"comfortable in that that class to be like, I don't"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2657.08,"endTime":2661.52,"body":"understand what he's saying because it was a"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2657.08,"endTime":2661.52,"body":"graduate class. But that happens in undergraduate"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2661.52,"endTime":2669.71,"body":"classes too, to, to, to, you know, to say, I'm"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2661.52,"endTime":2669.71,"body":"ignorant in this. Like, not when you're supposed to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2669.71,"endTime":2675.08,"body":"have done the reading. Yeah, there's something about"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2669.71,"endTime":2675.08,"body":"that for me that, that I would I would take it."},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2676.19,"endTime":2681.44,"body":"I think one of the things I think one"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2676.19,"endTime":2681.44,"body":"of the things that you're pointing to Lance, is"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2681.59,"endTime":2686.6,"body":"something that I keep coming back to, which is that,"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2681.59,"endTime":2686.6,"body":"you know, we have these tools and even when we ask"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2686.6,"endTime":2693.47,"body":"them to do very specific things, an individual"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2686.6,"endTime":2693.47,"body":"student could use it in ways that supported their"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2693.47,"endTime":2699.0499999999997,"body":"learning and a another student could use it in the"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2693.47,"endTime":2699.0499999999997,"body":"same way. And and it would impede their learning."},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2699.0499999999997,"endTime":2704.69,"body":"Right. And so, you know, for you or other other"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2699.0499999999997,"endTime":2704.69,"body":"folks who are trying to read complicated texts,"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2704.84,"endTime":2710.48,"body":"using this as a tool for understanding helps you get"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2704.84,"endTime":2710.48,"body":"further. And then for some students, right, it it"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2710.56,"endTime":2714.29,"body":"gets in the way because they would be able to"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2710.56,"endTime":2714.29,"body":"understand it if they just spent a little time with"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2714.29,"endTime":2719.39,"body":"it. Right. And so I don't know. I think helping"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2714.29,"endTime":2719.39,"body":"students develop their own skills and metacognition"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2719.39,"endTime":2725.5099999999998,"body":"to be able to realize what's happening when they are"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2719.39,"endTime":2725.5099999999998,"body":"using these tools. Right. Am I short circuiting"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2725.5099999999998,"endTime":2730.0099999999998,"body":"learning? Is this actually helping me go further?"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2725.5099999999998,"endTime":2730.0099999999998,"body":"Right. Helping them reflect on that and understand"},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2730.0099999999998,"endTime":2732.47,"body":"that I think is going to be key going forward."},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2733.2999999999997,"endTime":2740.29,"body":"I think I also hear you hinting at"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2733.2999999999997,"endTime":2740.29,"body":"student agency rather than top down decision making"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2740.29,"endTime":2747.04,"body":"from people outside of their experience, maybe"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2740.29,"endTime":2747.04,"body":"allowing students to be fully in control of their"},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2747.04,"endTime":2747.79,"body":"experience."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2748.45,"endTime":2748.67,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2749.7,"endTime":2750.69,"body":"Power to the students."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2753.33,"endTime":2758.49,"body":"Well, I think that's a good place to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2753.33,"endTime":2758.49,"body":"leave it. There are many other hot takes we could"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2758.49,"endTime":2764.31,"body":"explore together, but I think one of the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2758.49,"endTime":2764.31,"body":"artificialities of a hot take is, is that there's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2764.31,"endTime":2769.41,"body":"one right answer to whatever problem that we're"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2764.31,"endTime":2769.41,"body":"looking at, right? And so that that is rarely the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2769.41,"endTime":2773.7599999999998,"body":"case as we have explored here today, there our"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2769.41,"endTime":2773.7599999999998,"body":"students are different from each other. They're"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2773.7599999999998,"endTime":2778.64,"body":"different from us. Our teaching contexts are"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2773.7599999999998,"endTime":2778.64,"body":"different. And I think we have to be mindful of all"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2778.64,"endTime":2783.99,"body":"of that. And it's it's a little dangerous to come"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2778.64,"endTime":2783.99,"body":"out and say everyone should do X, Y, or Z. That's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2783.99,"endTime":2790.86,"body":"almost never the right answer. But thank you, all"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2783.99,"endTime":2790.86,"body":"three of you, for jumping in today. And sharing your"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2790.86,"endTime":2794.73,"body":"perspectives and your insight and your experiences"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2790.86,"endTime":2794.73,"body":"and your wisdom. I really enjoyed our conversation"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2795.06,"endTime":2798.15,"body":"and I hope our listeners have too. Yeah. Thanks so"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2795.06,"endTime":2798.15,"body":"much for being here."},{"speaker":"Emily Donahoe","startTime":2798.66,"endTime":2799.59,"body":"Thanks. This was fun."},{"speaker":"Stacey Johnson","startTime":2800.7,"endTime":2802.08,"body":"This is a lot of fun. Thanks, Derek."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2802.86,"endTime":2804.18,"body":"So thank you all so much."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2806.52,"endTime":2810.81,"body":"Thanks to our three. Take it or Leave"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2806.52,"endTime":2810.81,"body":"It. Panelists Stacey Johnson, Emily Donahoe and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2810.81,"endTime":2815.5499999999997,"body":"Lance Eaton. I really enjoyed our conversation and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2810.81,"endTime":2815.5499999999997,"body":"all the nuance they brought to these hot takes in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2815.5499999999997,"endTime":2820.08,"body":"the world of higher ed. In the show notes. For this"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2815.5499999999997,"endTime":2820.08,"body":"episode, you'll find links to all the essays I"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2820.08,"endTime":2825.85,"body":"mentioned during the panel, as well as to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2820.08,"endTime":2825.85,"body":"information about our fantastic panelists. I would"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2825.85,"endTime":2829.93,"body":"love to hear from you about today's Hot takes. Which"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2825.85,"endTime":2829.93,"body":"ones would you take and which ones would you leave?"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2830.56,"endTime":2834.7599999999998,"body":"You can click the link in the show notes to send me"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2830.56,"endTime":2834.7599999999998,"body":"a text message. Be sure to include your name so I"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2834.7599999999998,"endTime":2840.54,"body":"know who you are. Or just email me at. Derek at"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2834.7599999999998,"endTime":2840.54,"body":"Derek Bruff dot org. Intentional teaching is"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2840.54,"endTime":2846.06,"body":"sponsored by UPCEA, the Online and Professional"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2840.54,"endTime":2846.06,"body":"Education Association. In the show notes, you'll"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2846.06,"endTime":2851.22,"body":"find a link to the UPCEA website where you can find"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2846.06,"endTime":2851.22,"body":"out about their research, networking opportunities"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2851.22,"endTime":2852.9,"body":"and professional development offerings."}]}