{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":35.0,"endTime":35.29,"body":"..."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":39.589999999999996,"endTime":45.019999999999996,"body":"Welcome to Intentional Teaching, a podcast aimed at"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":39.589999999999996,"endTime":45.019999999999996,"body":"educators to help them develop foundational teaching"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":45.019999999999996,"endTime":51.62,"body":"skills and explore new ideas and teaching. I'm your"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":45.019999999999996,"endTime":51.62,"body":"host, Derek Bruff. I hope this podcast helps you be"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":51.62,"endTime":57.019999999999996,"body":"more intentional in how you teach and in how you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":51.62,"endTime":57.019999999999996,"body":"develop as a teacher over time. Last year on the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":57.019999999999996,"endTime":63.68,"body":"podcast, I interviewed Cathryn Friel about her study"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":57.019999999999996,"endTime":63.68,"body":"of the experiences of students with ADHD in online"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":63.68,"endTime":70.59,"body":"courses. That episode is currently my fourth most"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":63.68,"endTime":70.59,"body":"downloaded episode, even beating out most of the AI"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":70.59,"endTime":75.84,"body":"focused episodes of this podcast. Clearly, there's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":70.59,"endTime":75.84,"body":"an interest in the higher education community about"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":75.84,"endTime":82.44,"body":"neurodivergent students and how best to support them"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":75.84,"endTime":82.44,"body":"as learners. That's why when UPCEA, the Online and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":82.44,"endTime":88.62,"body":"Professional Education Association, sent over a list"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":82.44,"endTime":88.62,"body":"of suggested guests as part of their sponsorship of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":88.62,"endTime":96.15,"body":"this podcast, I zeroed in on Holly Tilbrook. At the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":88.62,"endTime":96.15,"body":"UPCEA annual conference in March, Holly presented as"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":96.15,"endTime":103.77,"body":"part of a panel titled Neurodivergent Learners and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":96.15,"endTime":103.77,"body":"Earners in Post-Secondary Education. Holly is a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":103.77,"endTime":109.38,"body":"deputy director of the Academic Centres at the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":103.77,"endTime":109.38,"body":"University of Cambridge's Institute of Continuing"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":109.38,"endTime":114.764,"body":"Education. That institute offers a variety of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":109.38,"endTime":114.764,"body":"post-secondary learning opportunities for students"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":114.764,"endTime":120.944,"body":"of all ages, from onsite weekend courses to online"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":114.764,"endTime":120.944,"body":"certificate programs to degree programs offered"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":120.944,"endTime":126.786,"body":"across various modalities. Many of Holly's students"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":120.944,"endTime":126.786,"body":"aren't just learners, they're earners in the sense"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":126.786,"endTime":132.26600000000002,"body":"that they are active participants in the workforce."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":126.786,"endTime":132.26600000000002,"body":"I wanted to know what Holly has been learning about"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":132.26600000000002,"endTime":138.086,"body":"supporting students with ADHD and other types of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":132.26600000000002,"endTime":138.086,"body":"neurodivergence, particularly adult students and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":138.086,"endTime":143.786,"body":"online students. I reached out to Holly via LinkedIn,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":138.086,"endTime":143.786,"body":"where she posts thoughtful reflections on her work"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":143.786,"endTime":149.336,"body":"on a regular basis, and she was glad to talk with me."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":143.786,"endTime":149.336,"body":"In our conversation, we discuss ways to build trust"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":149.336,"endTime":155.216,"body":"with Neurodivergent students accommodations that can"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":149.336,"endTime":155.216,"body":"more authentically meet the student's needs and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":155.216,"endTime":158.36599999999999,"body":"helping neurodivergent students enter or re-enter"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":155.216,"endTime":158.36599999999999,"body":"the workforce."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":160.691,"endTime":164.26100000000002,"body":"Holly, thanks for being on the International"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":160.691,"endTime":164.26100000000002,"body":"Teaching podcast. I'm very excited to have you as a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":164.26100000000002,"endTime":165.88099999999997,"body":"guest here. Thanks. Thanks for being here."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":166.18099999999998,"endTime":170.351,"body":"No, thanks for inviting me. I'm very"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":166.18099999999998,"endTime":170.351,"body":"excited as well. This is my first ever time being a"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":170.351,"endTime":171.281,"body":"podcast guest."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":172.211,"endTime":177.041,"body":"That's great. I'm happy to to to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":172.211,"endTime":177.041,"body":"welcome you into this world."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":178.99099999999999,"endTime":183.52100000000002,"body":"Can you tell us about a time when you realized you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":178.99099999999999,"endTime":183.52100000000002,"body":"wanted to be an educator?"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":184.47699999999998,"endTime":191.176,"body":"Yes. And I wanted to really thank"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":184.47699999999998,"endTime":191.176,"body":"you for this question, because I think I often I"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":191.296,"endTime":197.236,"body":"identify myself more as being an administrator or a"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":191.296,"endTime":197.236,"body":"manager. And actually, that question made me realize"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":197.236,"endTime":204.34300000000002,"body":"that no. Even though I may not be delivering to"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":197.236,"endTime":204.34300000000002,"body":"students directly all the time, my heart is about"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":204.34300000000002,"endTime":209.83299999999997,"body":"education. That's what I'm there to do. I'm there to"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":204.34300000000002,"endTime":209.83299999999997,"body":"support students. Yes, I am educator, so I'm going"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":209.83299999999997,"endTime":217.243,"body":"to reclaim that as my title. So thank you. And this"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":209.83299999999997,"endTime":217.243,"body":"question made me laugh because I remember distinctly"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":217.243,"endTime":224.683,"body":"being told when I was 15 by careers and guidance"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":217.243,"endTime":224.683,"body":"counselors at school that teaching would be a really"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":224.683,"endTime":231.671,"body":"good career for me. And I said, Absolutely not. I do"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":224.683,"endTime":231.671,"body":"not want to be a teacher. I never want to teach. And"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":231.671,"endTime":239.64800000000002,"body":"then here we are, however many decades later working"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":231.671,"endTime":239.64800000000002,"body":"for a university. The change came when I was doing"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":239.64800000000002,"endTime":247.298,"body":"my Ph.D. and like many graduate students back in the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":239.64800000000002,"endTime":247.298,"body":"late nineties, early noughties, I was given an"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":247.298,"endTime":257.395,"body":"opportunity to teach and I loved it, loved it much"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":247.298,"endTime":257.395,"body":"more than I did writing my thesis, if I'm honest. So"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":257.405,"endTime":264.415,"body":"that was a turning point for me. I then took a bit"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":257.405,"endTime":264.415,"body":"of a wiggle because from academia I became a"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":264.415,"endTime":271.851,"body":"secondary school teacher, then did a few other"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":264.415,"endTime":271.851,"body":"things before eventually sort of caving in and going,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":271.851,"endTime":279.371,"body":"No, okay, I am going to be an educator after all."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":271.851,"endTime":279.371,"body":"And I think I was bucking against that desire"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":279.371,"endTime":286.795,"body":"because my father was a lecturer. My mother was a"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":279.371,"endTime":286.795,"body":"school teacher. My sister is now a primary school"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":286.795,"endTime":294.325,"body":"teacher, and I think I said that I want my own path,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":286.795,"endTime":294.325,"body":"but I succumbed in the end and I absolutely love it."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":295.763,"endTime":299.383,"body":"That's a very long answer to what would have been a"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":295.763,"endTime":299.383,"body":"short question."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":300.21299999999997,"endTime":304.52299999999997,"body":"No, no, I love it and I love it. And I"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":300.21299999999997,"endTime":304.52299999999997,"body":"love thinking about someone in your position as an"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":304.52299999999997,"endTime":310.823,"body":"educator, Right? You may not be the one directly"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":304.52299999999997,"endTime":310.823,"body":"teaching students in the same fashion, but you are"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":310.823,"endTime":316.97299999999996,"body":"you are a part of the educational system. And, you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":310.823,"endTime":316.97299999999996,"body":"know, sometimes administrators get a bad rap, but"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":317.453,"endTime":323.135,"body":"there's a lot of important work that has to be done"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":317.453,"endTime":323.135,"body":"on different levels for students to succeed. So I"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":323.135,"endTime":324.60499999999996,"body":"like to think of us as educators."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":324.78499999999997,"endTime":328.47499999999997,"body":"Yes. No, from now on, that's what"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":324.78499999999997,"endTime":328.47499999999997,"body":"I'm going to reclaim the title of educator."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":329.135,"endTime":330.695,"body":"That's great. Well,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":332.765,"endTime":339.065,"body":"what can you say about the students who attend the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":332.765,"endTime":339.065,"body":"Institute of Continuing Education at the University"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":339.065,"endTime":339.755,"body":"of Cambridge?"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":341.729,"endTime":342.949,"body":"It's a very open ended question."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":343.06899999999996,"endTime":349.18899999999996,"body":"It is a very open ended question."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":343.06899999999996,"endTime":349.18899999999996,"body":"And I think I need to declare a conflict of interest"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":349.18899999999996,"endTime":354.289,"body":"here because I have been a student of the Institute"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":349.18899999999996,"endTime":354.289,"body":"of Continuing Education before I became a member of"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":354.289,"endTime":363.25899999999996,"body":"staff. I did three courses here because I've always"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":354.289,"endTime":363.25899999999996,"body":"valued education and lifelong learning and personal"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":363.25899999999996,"endTime":372.977,"body":"development. So I think as with all students, they"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":363.25899999999996,"endTime":372.977,"body":"are very much individual, but they are very"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":372.977,"endTime":380.147,"body":"committed to their education. They've chosen to come"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":372.977,"endTime":380.147,"body":"here not because it was the next step on the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":380.147,"endTime":385.23699999999997,"body":"educational ladder, the way when you're younger you"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":380.147,"endTime":385.23699999999997,"body":"go through primary school, secondary school, single"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":385.23699999999997,"endTime":391.54699999999997,"body":"college or university. You know, if you do that path,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":385.23699999999997,"endTime":391.54699999999997,"body":"they have chosen to come here either because they"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":391.54699999999997,"endTime":399.167,"body":"weren't able to fulfil that trajectory when they"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":391.54699999999997,"endTime":399.167,"body":"were younger because they want to switch careers or"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":399.167,"endTime":406.11699999999996,"body":"pivot slightly in their career. They may be retired"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":399.167,"endTime":406.11699999999996,"body":"and just really want to study something for the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":407.167,"endTime":410.437,"body":"enjoyment and love of the subjects."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":411.77799999999996,"endTime":420.37399999999997,"body":"And we have. So there's a really wonderful story on"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":411.77799999999996,"endTime":420.37399999999997,"body":"the institute's LinkedIn pages at the moment about"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":420.37399999999997,"endTime":427.24399999999997,"body":"one of our weekend courses. So we run courses which"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":420.37399999999997,"endTime":427.24399999999997,"body":"are non award bearing, that cover weekend all the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":427.24399999999997,"endTime":435.292,"body":"way through to a two year part-time master's course."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":427.24399999999997,"endTime":435.292,"body":"On this particular weekend course and a 19 year old"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":435.292,"endTime":444.606,"body":"attended with his 82 year old granddad. And I think"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":435.292,"endTime":444.606,"body":"if anything sums up continuing education, they did"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":444.606,"endTime":452.01599999999996,"body":"it completely bridges the generation. They came to"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":444.606,"endTime":452.01599999999996,"body":"study something that they loved. One was at the very"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":452.01599999999996,"endTime":459.726,"body":"early stages of their further education, a one at"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":452.01599999999996,"endTime":459.726,"body":"the very end towards the later years and applied."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":459.726,"endTime":466.986,"body":"And I think what is now a kind of encore education"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":459.726,"endTime":466.986,"body":"is the on buzz word for it. So yes, it is incredibly"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":466.986,"endTime":469.626,"body":"varied and committed and enthusiastic."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":470.676,"endTime":477.61699999999996,"body":"Now, now, well, speaking of the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":470.676,"endTime":477.61699999999996,"body":"students and their diversity, what what has sparked"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":477.61699999999996,"endTime":482.92699999999996,"body":"your interest in the experiences of Neurodivergent"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":477.61699999999996,"endTime":482.92699999999996,"body":"students in continuing education?"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":484.127,"endTime":491.087,"body":"From a very pragmatic level. Part of"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":484.127,"endTime":491.087,"body":"my job was to set up disability support units at the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":491.087,"endTime":498.231,"body":"Institute of Continuing Education. Not a very"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":491.087,"endTime":498.231,"body":"prosaic reason, but really sparked my interest as"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":498.231,"endTime":504.681,"body":"one of the first students I had a conversation with"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":498.231,"endTime":504.681,"body":"and they wanted to talk to me because they had just"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":504.681,"endTime":513.541,"body":"recently received a diagnosis of ADHD. And as you"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":504.681,"endTime":513.541,"body":"can imagine, on the one hand felt quite relief"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":513.721,"endTime":520.79,"body":"because it explained a lot of questions that they"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":513.721,"endTime":520.79,"body":"had on the same time is very discombobulating"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":520.79,"endTime":526.25,"body":"because they didn't know what to do with that"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":520.79,"endTime":526.25,"body":"knowledge. How that could impact their learning, how"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":526.25,"endTime":533.15,"body":"it would impact their learning. And not only that,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":526.25,"endTime":533.15,"body":"but also what would happen in their workplace. Did"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":533.15,"endTime":540.74,"body":"we have any advice so they could take away tools and"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":533.15,"endTime":540.74,"body":"strategies? And that really got me interested in the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":540.74,"endTime":542.45,"body":"talk about learning differences."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":544.457,"endTime":550.337,"body":"But they didn't stop in the classroom. They don't"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":544.457,"endTime":550.337,"body":"only manifest in a learning environment, and I think"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":550.337,"endTime":556.663,"body":"that was the first time I really had that"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":550.337,"endTime":556.663,"body":"realisation myself. But yes, they're learning"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":556.663,"endTime":562.993,"body":"difference is because it's probably in a learning"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":556.663,"endTime":562.993,"body":"environment that they first manifest themselves and"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":562.993,"endTime":570.1930000000001,"body":"they're recognised. But they effect all elements of"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":562.993,"endTime":570.1930000000001,"body":"our lives. So it was that conversation that really"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":570.1930000000001,"endTime":577.2370000000001,"body":"sparked my interest. And then in the UK and I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":570.1930000000001,"endTime":577.2370000000001,"body":"it's the same in the US as well, there's just been a"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":577.2370000000001,"endTime":586.2370000000001,"body":"growing awareness and recognition of neurodivergency"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":577.2370000000001,"endTime":586.2370000000001,"body":"recently, especially undiagnosed neurodivergency In"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":586.2370000000001,"endTime":591.6370000000001,"body":"adults and obviously that's what we're about at the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":586.2370000000001,"endTime":591.6370000000001,"body":"continuing education and also particularly in women,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":591.787,"endTime":599.947,"body":"but also it manifests very differently across the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":591.787,"endTime":599.947,"body":"genders, But also through the ages as well. What you"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":599.9770000000001,"endTime":606.9970000000001,"body":"know, a nine year old boy might represent as ADHD"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":599.9770000000001,"endTime":606.9970000000001,"body":"symptoms may not be what the 48 year old woman"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":607.957,"endTime":612.0970000000001,"body":"represents. So just that growing awareness and just."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":612.7570000000001,"endTime":618.307,"body":"Yeah, yeah. So so how did you go about"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":612.7570000000001,"endTime":618.307,"body":"that? How did you how did you pursue information and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":618.307,"endTime":620.5500000000001,"body":"perspectives on this topic?"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":621.25,"endTime":627.37,"body":"In a number of ways. The university"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":621.25,"endTime":627.37,"body":"has an accessibility and disability resource centre,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":627.46,"endTime":634.0,"body":"s I spoke to colleagues that in the first instance"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":627.46,"endTime":634.0,"body":"and they gave us some really good guidance on the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":634.0,"endTime":640.96,"body":"types of reasonable adjustments we could put in"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":634.0,"endTime":640.96,"body":"place for learning. I then started listening to"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":640.96,"endTime":648.22,"body":"podcasts. There are some brilliant podcasts in the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":640.96,"endTime":648.22,"body":"UK at the moment. I started reading books. There's a"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":648.22,"endTime":657.9100000000001,"body":"great book I read by Kathleen Nadeau quite recently"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":648.22,"endTime":657.9100000000001,"body":"about ADHD in the older members and how that can"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":657.9100000000001,"endTime":662.2,"body":"impact your lives. And that was one of those books"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":657.9100000000001,"endTime":662.2,"body":"that really made me realise actually it's not just"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":662.2,"endTime":669.5600000000001,"body":"about the learning environment and it affects all"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":662.2,"endTime":669.5600000000001,"body":"aspects of our lives. Attending conferences doing a"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":669.5600000000001,"endTime":676.1600000000001,"body":"couple of online courses, following people on"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":669.5600000000001,"endTime":676.1600000000001,"body":"LinkedIn the usual myriad of ways that people can"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":676.1600000000001,"endTime":683.313,"body":"pick up knowledge and importantly listening to"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":676.1600000000001,"endTime":683.313,"body":"students. So that first student who came to talk to"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":683.313,"endTime":692.941,"body":"me really asking them to explain to me what they"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":683.313,"endTime":692.941,"body":"were struggling with, what it meant to them, what"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":692.941,"endTime":700.7710000000001,"body":"they thought might help them. And also talking to"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":692.941,"endTime":700.7710000000001,"body":"students who came with a diagnosis that they might"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":700.7710000000001,"endTime":707.731,"body":"have had all the way from secondary school maybe in"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":700.7710000000001,"endTime":707.731,"body":"primary school one of our more younger learners and"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":707.731,"endTime":710.311,"body":"asking them because they tend to come knowing what"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":707.731,"endTime":710.311,"body":"they need."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":711.181,"endTime":711.5110000000001,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":712.4240000000001,"endTime":717.644,"body":"And so you can learn from them"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":712.4240000000001,"endTime":717.644,"body":"directly as well. So a real mixture of different"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":717.644,"endTime":720.528,"body":"forms is putting that together."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":722.4490000000001,"endTime":729.389,"body":"I would say that although awareness is rising, it is"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":722.4490000000001,"endTime":729.389,"body":"still quite difficult to really find a lot of"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":729.389,"endTime":736.0210000000001,"body":"information that can really inform the changes that"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":729.389,"endTime":736.0210000000001,"body":"you want to make from others."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":737.181,"endTime":741.591,"body":"Yeah, and let me because I do think"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":737.181,"endTime":741.591,"body":"awareness is rising. I've noticed a lot more"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":741.591,"endTime":746.7810000000001,"body":"conversations about this in higher ed, but I do"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":741.591,"endTime":746.7810000000001,"body":"think it's interesting that that one of the first"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":746.7810000000001,"endTime":753.111,"body":"things you noticed was that these are both students"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":746.7810000000001,"endTime":753.111,"body":"and people in the workplace, right? It's affecting"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":753.111,"endTime":754.2810000000001,"body":"all parts of their lives."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":756.0880000000001,"endTime":764.008,"body":"What what does that part look like? What have you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":756.0880000000001,"endTime":764.008,"body":"learned about how neurodivergence might show up in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":764.128,"endTime":767.758,"body":"your students work lives outside of the courses that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":764.128,"endTime":767.758,"body":"they're taking?"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":768.688,"endTime":775.378,"body":"So I'm sort of at the very early"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":768.688,"endTime":775.378,"body":"stages of focusing on that and learning more about"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":775.378,"endTime":782.6080000000001,"body":"that. The initial priority was getting the support"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":775.378,"endTime":782.6080000000001,"body":"setup in place for the learner aspect, and I guess"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":782.6080000000001,"endTime":787.558,"body":"it's really only been in the past maybe six months"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":782.6080000000001,"endTime":787.558,"body":"to 12 months, I've really started to turn my"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":787.558,"endTime":794.4580000000001,"body":"attention to what does this mean, How can we support"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":787.558,"endTime":794.4580000000001,"body":"our students to take the tools and strategies that"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":794.4580000000001,"endTime":799.558,"body":"we're using in our learning environment into"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":794.4580000000001,"endTime":799.558,"body":"different environments? And it can be very tricky"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":799.558,"endTime":804.3580000000001,"body":"because obviously something these are some of the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":799.558,"endTime":804.3580000000001,"body":"things we're doing is an extra time for essay"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":804.3580000000001,"endTime":814.196,"body":"writing and, you know, directed reading lists and"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":804.3580000000001,"endTime":814.196,"body":"thinking, well, how does that fit into a workplace?"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":814.706,"endTime":823.826,"body":"How can that shift happen? And again, I think a lot"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":814.706,"endTime":823.826,"body":"of it is just coming from my reading and following"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":824.0060000000001,"endTime":830.0060000000001,"body":"influencers, for want of a better word, and also"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":824.0060000000001,"endTime":830.0060000000001,"body":"just going to students saying, what have you learned?"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":830.0360000000001,"endTime":838.226,"body":"Have you picked up anything? I think it is just"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":830.0360000000001,"endTime":838.226,"body":"being sensible and when we say to students or to"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":838.226,"endTime":844.3710000000001,"body":"teachers, you know, this student may need to take"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":838.226,"endTime":844.3710000000001,"body":"breaks in their concentration, their focus and"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":844.3710000000001,"endTime":848.601,"body":"depending on the neurodivergence you were talking"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":844.3710000000001,"endTime":848.601,"body":"about and in the workplace, we might be sitting"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":848.601,"endTime":857.8620000000001,"body":"through 2 hours of meetings without a break. How can"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":848.601,"endTime":857.8620000000001,"body":"we help to rethink what work has to look like? And I"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":857.8620000000001,"endTime":859.692,"body":"think it's how can we empower"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":862.553,"endTime":869.3330000000001,"body":"individuals to advocate for themselves in workplaces"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":862.553,"endTime":869.3330000000001,"body":"that are very much built? I mean, we work in higher"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":869.3330000000001,"endTime":875.183,"body":"education. We know, or at least in the UK, I don't"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":869.3330000000001,"endTime":875.183,"body":"know what it's like in the US in the UK, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":875.183,"endTime":876.863,"body":"decisions are made in committee meetings."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":877.553,"endTime":877.9730000000001,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":878.6990000000001,"endTime":885.269,"body":"Which can last from an hour to 2"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":878.6990000000001,"endTime":885.269,"body":"hours and can come with anything from 50 pages of"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":885.269,"endTime":895.777,"body":"committee papers to 250. Yeah. And so if I were"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":885.269,"endTime":895.777,"body":"saying to a neurodivergent colleague here, what can"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":895.787,"endTime":900.965,"body":"we adjust having to think through how you break down"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":895.787,"endTime":900.965,"body":"the very"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":905.2130000000001,"endTime":912.773,"body":"embedded practice of decision making, you really"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":905.2130000000001,"endTime":912.773,"body":"have to go back to what is the intention of these"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":912.773,"endTime":920.291,"body":"meetings. And so it is quite it is quite difficult."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":912.773,"endTime":920.291,"body":"I think. I think one of the other challenges at the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":920.291,"endTime":928.3230000000001,"body":"workplace there was a recent study by I think was"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":920.291,"endTime":928.3230000000001,"body":"Birkbeck in London around neurodiversity in the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":928.3230000000001,"endTime":937.899,"body":"workplace, and they interviewed about a thousand"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":928.3230000000001,"endTime":937.899,"body":"people. But I can clarify the details later. And 65%"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":937.899,"endTime":942.609,"body":"of employees said that they didn't want to diagnose"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":937.899,"endTime":942.609,"body":"or felt uncomfortable about diagnosing because of"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":942.609,"endTime":953.2940000000001,"body":"the stigma of diagnosis. And they also interviewed"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":942.609,"endTime":953.2940000000001,"body":"managers about this and 69% managers said, well, one"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":953.2940000000001,"endTime":960.893,"body":"of the problems is the lack of disclosure. If people"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":953.2940000000001,"endTime":960.893,"body":"don't disclose, you don't know how to help them. And"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":960.893,"endTime":968.647,"body":"the also 65% of managers said they lacked the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":960.893,"endTime":968.647,"body":"understanding to know what to do to help the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":968.657,"endTime":977.1070000000001,"body":"Neurodivergent workers. So I think in an education"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":968.657,"endTime":977.1070000000001,"body":"setting we have come a long way since I was at"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":977.3770000000001,"endTime":985.297,"body":"university in the 1990s. And I think the work"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":977.3770000000001,"endTime":985.297,"body":"setting some of the work settings, I can't speak for"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":985.297,"endTime":991.9630000000001,"body":"everybody, still has a long way to catch up. We need"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":985.297,"endTime":991.9630000000001,"body":"to take the learnings from education and think about"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":991.9630000000001,"endTime":997.961,"body":"what can we do differently in the workplace. If we"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":991.9630000000001,"endTime":997.961,"body":"can do it in education, surely we can do it in the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":997.961,"endTime":1003.421,"body":"workplace too. I just think we're at a very early"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":997.961,"endTime":1003.421,"body":"stage in that conversation. For my experience, I'm"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1003.421,"endTime":1008.1610000000001,"body":"sure there'll be other people who can perhaps share"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1003.421,"endTime":1008.1610000000001,"body":"sources with me about what's going on, but that's"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1008.2810000000001,"endTime":1010.111,"body":"certainly how I see it at the moment."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1010.561,"endTime":1019.427,"body":"Yeah, I've I heard you use I've heard"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1010.561,"endTime":1019.427,"body":"you use the term authentic actions instead of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1019.427,"endTime":1024.977,"body":"accommodations when working with Neurodivergent"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1019.427,"endTime":1024.977,"body":"students. What do you mean by authentic actions?"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1027.01,"endTime":1032.74,"body":"So I have a few. I pinched that from"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1027.01,"endTime":1032.74,"body":"somewhere else, so I'm not claiming it as my own,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1033.49,"endTime":1036.94,"body":"but when I read it, I thought that feels"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1039.6,"endTime":1047.01,"body":"like a term that resonates more with me. So the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1039.6,"endTime":1047.01,"body":"standard term in the UK is reasonable adjustment"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1048.28,"endTime":1054.37,"body":"and I know you make accommodation, don't you, in in"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1048.28,"endTime":1054.37,"body":"the States. And I think I was thinking about this"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1054.37,"endTime":1062.59,"body":"and I think the best analogy I can make is I'm quite"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1054.37,"endTime":1062.59,"body":"short, I'm only 5 foot 2, so for those who do metric,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1062.9199999999998,"endTime":1069.72,"body":"that's about 156 centimeters. And so when I was"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1062.9199999999998,"endTime":1069.72,"body":"younger, a lot of trousers had to be taken up for me."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1069.72,"endTime":1076.58,"body":"I could never find the right length trouser. Now a"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1069.72,"endTime":1076.58,"body":"lot of brands do petite ranges,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1078.1699999999998,"endTime":1081.4399999999998,"body":"so they've done something authentically, which means"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1078.1699999999998,"endTime":1081.4399999999998,"body":"I don't have to adjust."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1082.61,"endTime":1084.9499999999998,"body":"Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1085.46,"endTime":1091.22,"body":"So that was sort of my analogy when"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1085.46,"endTime":1091.22,"body":"I was thinking about that. And I think it's thinking"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1091.22,"endTime":1103.1699999999998,"body":"through the support you want to put in place and"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1091.22,"endTime":1103.1699999999998,"body":"making sure it's done in a way that really will help."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1104.81,"endTime":1108.32,"body":"And I think that's what I mean by authentic action."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1104.81,"endTime":1108.32,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1110.33,"endTime":1120.8799999999999,"body":"an adjustment that we may want to suggest to you,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1110.33,"endTime":1120.8799999999999,"body":"let's say a learner who's got dyslexia, we may say"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1120.8799999999999,"endTime":1125.31,"body":"you can have more time and that might really help"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1120.8799999999999,"endTime":1125.31,"body":"that student."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1126.9299999999998,"endTime":1131.8999999999999,"body":"However, if you have a student with a"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1126.9299999999998,"endTime":1131.8999999999999,"body":"neurodivergency which actually means that they can"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1131.8999999999999,"endTime":1140.84,"body":"lack focus or is easy for them to procrastinate and"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1131.8999999999999,"endTime":1140.84,"body":"go off task. Giving them more time on this by itself"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1141.4099999999999,"endTime":1145.79,"body":"may not help in some ways. Maybe you're just giving"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1141.4099999999999,"endTime":1145.79,"body":"them more time to become distracted and you're just"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1146.09,"endTime":1154.53,"body":"pushing off the deadline. A more authentic action"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1146.09,"endTime":1154.53,"body":"might be we can give you more time, but within that"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1154.53,"endTime":1159.71,"body":"time we're going to scaffold many deadlines for you"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1154.53,"endTime":1159.71,"body":"to hit."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1161.61,"endTime":1168.22,"body":"And that's what I mean by authentic. It's how will"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1161.61,"endTime":1168.22,"body":"this work to help me?"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1170.1699999999998,"endTime":1176.97,"body":"So I'm yes, like I say, it's not a term that I came"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1170.1699999999998,"endTime":1176.97,"body":"up with and I read it. And just the thing is that"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1176.97,"endTime":1184.5,"body":"authenticity is an educator. I'm so pleaseed you"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1176.97,"endTime":1184.5,"body":"introduced me to that term for myself. I am I want"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1184.5,"endTime":1190.22,"body":"to be authentic in all that I do. I don't just want"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1184.5,"endTime":1190.22,"body":"to say here's a tick box, here's a list of things"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1190.22,"endTime":1195.1899999999998,"body":"that might help you. I think it's important that we"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1190.22,"endTime":1195.1899999999998,"body":"say these are things that might help you. How can we"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1195.1899999999998,"endTime":1199.11,"body":"implement them in such a way that they do help you"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1200.87,"endTime":1209.31,"body":"and we still have a long way to go on that, I think."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1200.87,"endTime":1209.31,"body":"But that's where I want to move."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1210.1,"endTime":1214.08,"body":"Well, and I'm hearing authenticity in a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1210.1,"endTime":1214.08,"body":"couple of ways. One is that it's actually meeting"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1214.09,"endTime":1220.83,"body":"the students where where they are and providing them"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1214.09,"endTime":1220.83,"body":"some structure that they need. But it's also"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1220.84,"endTime":1227.47,"body":"authentic to the task, right, that if you give a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1220.84,"endTime":1227.47,"body":"students a big assignment, it undoubtedly has many"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1227.47,"endTime":1232.4199999999998,"body":"smaller parts that need to kind of build on each"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1227.47,"endTime":1232.4199999999998,"body":"other. So it's not inauthentic to say we're going to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1232.51,"endTime":1238.6299999999999,"body":"we're going to have many deadlines along the way to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1232.51,"endTime":1238.6299999999999,"body":"help you get there. Right. And the other thing I'm"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1238.6299999999999,"endTime":1239.83,"body":"curious about is"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1241.72,"endTime":1246.1299999999999,"body":"because you mentioned, you know, giving someone you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1241.72,"endTime":1246.1299999999999,"body":"know, extra time for something kind of generically."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1246.58,"endTime":1251.59,"body":"But I wonder if that more scaffolded approach is"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1246.58,"endTime":1251.59,"body":"something that a student could then maybe a student"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1251.59,"endTime":1256.77,"body":"who's been recently diagnosed can then take that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1251.59,"endTime":1256.77,"body":"into their workplace and maybe even advocate for"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1256.77,"endTime":1261.81,"body":"themselves. This is the kind of structure that I"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1256.77,"endTime":1261.81,"body":"need to to to do well at this work."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1262.24,"endTime":1270.79,"body":"Yes, I think totally. And also think"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1262.24,"endTime":1270.79,"body":"about how they plan their day. So if you go back to"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1270.79,"endTime":1277.12,"body":"sort of higher education context, if you need to"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1270.79,"endTime":1277.12,"body":"write a paper for a committee, being realistic that"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1277.12,"endTime":1284.3799999999999,"body":"actually it might not get done in an hour, you might"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1277.12,"endTime":1284.3799999999999,"body":"need to give yourself an hour and a half, one day,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1285.33,"endTime":1291.1499999999999,"body":"an hour and a half the next day. But you're going to"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1285.33,"endTime":1291.1499999999999,"body":"break after is it the Pomodoro technique, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1291.6899999999998,"endTime":1299.1299999999999,"body":"And I go, I'm going to work in 25 minute bursts"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1291.6899999999998,"endTime":1299.1299999999999,"body":"really focus and then just stop and then come back"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1299.1299999999999,"endTime":1304.53,"body":"to it rather than thinking we can. And I think as"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1299.1299999999999,"endTime":1304.53,"body":"with many of these adjustments, they benefit"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1304.53,"endTime":1310.34,"body":"everybody. The whole idea that you can, you know,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1304.53,"endTime":1310.34,"body":"that somebody and I know some people can really"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1310.35,"endTime":1318.21,"body":"hyperfocus, but at the beginning of that I need to"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1310.35,"endTime":1318.21,"body":"break my brain can't be on from 9:00 in the morning"},{"speaker":"until 5","startTime":1318.21,"endTime":1326.03,"body":"00 in the evening. And if I do fill my diary"},{"speaker":"until 5","startTime":1318.21,"endTime":1326.03,"body":"with meetings from 9:00 to 5:00, if you know, the"},{"speaker":"until 5","startTime":1326.02,"endTime":1332.54,"body":"attention I'm giving at 430 is not going to be the"},{"speaker":"until 5","startTime":1326.02,"endTime":1332.54,"body":"same that I'm giving at 9:00. So is that breaking"},{"speaker":"until 5","startTime":1332.53,"endTime":1338.59,"body":"things down in a way that makes sense for you? And"},{"speaker":"until 5","startTime":1332.53,"endTime":1338.59,"body":"also the task, as you say, the task that you're"},{"speaker":"until 5","startTime":1338.74,"endTime":1345.26,"body":"doing is not always going to be possible for this"},{"speaker":"until 5","startTime":1338.74,"endTime":1345.26,"body":"ways of trying. And it's about experimenting based"},{"speaker":"until 5","startTime":1345.52,"endTime":1352.07,"body":"on what works for you. And I think the other thing,"},{"speaker":"until 5","startTime":1345.52,"endTime":1352.07,"body":"going back to the authentic action, what we started"},{"speaker":"until 5","startTime":1352.1699999999998,"endTime":1357.04,"body":"we started doing this couple of years ago, is saying"},{"speaker":"until 5","startTime":1352.1699999999998,"endTime":1357.04,"body":"to the student, look, we're going to give you some x"},{"speaker":"until 5","startTime":1357.32,"endTime":1360.77,"body":"X time, but we can also put you in touch with a"},{"speaker":"until 5","startTime":1357.32,"endTime":1360.77,"body":"study skills tutor"},{"speaker":"until 5","startTime":1363.24,"endTime":1366.0,"body":"who can maybe help you understand what to do with"},{"speaker":"until 5","startTime":1363.24,"endTime":1366.0,"body":"that time."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1368.47,"endTime":1372.58,"body":"Yeah, and I can imagine that would be"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1368.47,"endTime":1372.58,"body":"particularly helpful for an adult who has perhaps"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1372.58,"endTime":1378.79,"body":"been recently diagnosed, right, That likely they"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1372.58,"endTime":1378.79,"body":"have some coping strategies that they've adopted"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1378.79,"endTime":1385.24,"body":"already just to kind of make it through life. Well,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1378.79,"endTime":1385.24,"body":"but to actually talk to someone who has some perhaps"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1385.24,"endTime":1388.0,"body":"a different set of strategies that that might be a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1385.24,"endTime":1388.0,"body":"good match."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1388.72,"endTime":1389.53,"body":"Yes, it's."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1389.54,"endTime":1390.3999999999999,"body":"A big service."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1390.9399999999998,"endTime":1396.3899999999999,"body":"And especially because as adult"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1390.9399999999998,"endTime":1396.3899999999999,"body":"learners, even if you did do higher education, you"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1396.3999999999999,"endTime":1403.6999999999998,"body":"know, the kind of more usual time after school of"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1396.3999999999999,"endTime":1403.6999999999998,"body":"school, it's for many of us is a long time since we"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1403.6999999999998,"endTime":1415.6499999999999,"body":"last did a university level paper essay test. So I"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1403.6999999999998,"endTime":1415.6499999999999,"body":"think that was almost a 30 year gap between me"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1415.6499999999999,"endTime":1421.9499999999998,"body":"leaving uni and doing a course here. And I remember"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1415.6499999999999,"endTime":1421.9499999999998,"body":"feeling really anxious about that first piece of"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1421.9499999999998,"endTime":1427.05,"body":"work. So layer that with a recent diagnosis,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1429.1799999999998,"endTime":1435.12,"body":"you know, then how and as I said early the diagnosis"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1429.1799999999998,"endTime":1435.12,"body":"can be a relief because thinking, okay, I can now"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1435.12,"endTime":1440.4099999999999,"body":"get help with this, which is brilliant, but equally"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1435.12,"endTime":1440.4099999999999,"body":"having spoke with some students is also"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1440.4099999999999,"endTime":1446.31,"body":"discombobulating. It's yeah, two sides of the same"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1440.4099999999999,"endTime":1446.31,"body":"coin."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1447.6899999999998,"endTime":1453.1399999999999,"body":"Yeah well and and I also want to circle"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1447.6899999999998,"endTime":1453.1399999999999,"body":"back to this idea that what works well for one"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1453.1499999999999,"endTime":1459.8,"body":"student might not work well for another student."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1453.1499999999999,"endTime":1459.8,"body":"Right? I've known students where they actually going"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1459.8,"endTime":1464.87,"body":"to do a lot better work if they can start the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1459.8,"endTime":1464.87,"body":"project at noon and keep working until they're done"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1465.32,"endTime":1471.11,"body":"right. Like once they get in the zone, they it works"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1465.32,"endTime":1471.11,"body":"better to stay there, which can be great if they"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1471.11,"endTime":1477.56,"body":"know that. But if they run into a problem at 9 p.m."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1471.11,"endTime":1477.56,"body":"the night before it's due and they can't and they"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1477.56,"endTime":1482.51,"body":"need it, they need help from someone else like the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1477.56,"endTime":1482.51,"body":"instructor that so so part of it could be even"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1482.51,"endTime":1488.0,"body":"thinking about, okay, I know I'm going to block out"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1482.51,"endTime":1488.0,"body":"this 12 hour block of time to get it done. What do I"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1488.0,"endTime":1493.9099999999999,"body":"need to figure out before then so that I have all"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1488.0,"endTime":1493.9099999999999,"body":"that I need during that time to finish the whole"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1493.9099999999999,"endTime":1494.48,"body":"project?"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1495.28,"endTime":1501.1299999999999,"body":"Oh, yes. And then because for adult"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1495.28,"endTime":1501.1299999999999,"body":"learners that might be a strategy that works but"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1501.1299999999999,"endTime":1506.22,"body":"very few adults have probably even four hours"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1501.1299999999999,"endTime":1506.22,"body":"uninterrupted time."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1506.46,"endTime":1506.97,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1507.3,"endTime":1512.1,"body":"Because they lot they will be"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1507.3,"endTime":1512.1,"body":"working there will be caring responsibilities"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1512.1899999999998,"endTime":1521.11,"body":"whether it's up or down or both. There's just life"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1512.1899999999998,"endTime":1521.11,"body":"admin that we have to do as adults that we may not"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1521.11,"endTime":1529.03,"body":"have had to contend with. You know, earlier in our"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1521.11,"endTime":1529.03,"body":"education. So I think you're right. As more you may"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1529.03,"endTime":1537.1999999999998,"body":"know what your preferred tool would be, but that"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1529.03,"endTime":1537.1999999999998,"body":"might not work anymore. So how can we support you"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1537.5,"endTime":1543.98,"body":"navigating that learner within the wider sphere of"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1537.5,"endTime":1543.98,"body":"everything else that you're doing as an adult"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1543.98,"endTime":1550.55,"body":"learner? And I think sometimes I know I used to find"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1543.98,"endTime":1550.55,"body":"that frustrating of, you know, setting aside a day"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1551.3899999999999,"endTime":1556.9399999999998,"body":"to write my essay and then that you know [knocks]"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1551.3899999999999,"endTime":1556.9399999999998,"body":"Mommy!"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1558.4499999999998,"endTime":1559.31,"body":"Right? Right."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1559.73,"endTime":1565.5,"body":"And even if I could hear my husband"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1559.73,"endTime":1565.5,"body":"going, mummy's busy. Come downstairs. Yeah. You know,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1565.5,"endTime":1571.9099999999999,"body":"if, if your son wants you, you know, it's very hard"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1565.5,"endTime":1571.9099999999999,"body":"to say to a three year old, you know, no no no not"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1571.9099999999999,"endTime":1572.27,"body":"now."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1572.84,"endTime":1573.1699999999998,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1573.6499999999999,"endTime":1578.24,"body":"Of course once the essays done, you"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1573.6499999999999,"endTime":1578.24,"body":"know, then I can be mum again. Right. So I think"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1578.24,"endTime":1586.29,"body":"there's layers and other challenges. Yeah. As well"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1578.24,"endTime":1586.29,"body":"that we see with adult learners and I think even"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1586.29,"endTime":1596.31,"body":"those who don't have a neurodivergence and or"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1586.29,"endTime":1596.31,"body":"especially those who may not have a diagnosed"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1596.34,"endTime":1601.9199999999998,"body":"neurodivergent, you know, there's so many other"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1596.34,"endTime":1601.9199999999998,"body":"layers that we're dealing with on a daily basis. So"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1601.9199999999998,"endTime":1609.24,"body":"I think tools and strategies and I think again, that"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1601.9199999999998,"endTime":1609.24,"body":"brings me back to the authenticity. We can't think"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1609.24,"endTime":1612.0,"body":"about adult learners only as learners."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1614.0,"endTime":1620.28,"body":"There is everything else going on. At the same time"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1614.0,"endTime":1620.28,"body":"that we need to be aware of."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1620.79,"endTime":1625.1699999999998,"body":"Yeah, so you mentioned earlier the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1620.79,"endTime":1625.1699999999998,"body":"importance of disclosure."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1626.9399999999998,"endTime":1634.1399999999999,"body":"And so I'm wondering how do you go about developing"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1626.9399999999998,"endTime":1634.1399999999999,"body":"the kind of trust that's necessary for students, for"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1634.1399999999999,"endTime":1643.08,"body":"learners or employees to disclose a diagnosis or a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1634.1399999999999,"endTime":1643.08,"body":"or a neuro divergence of some sort?"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1645.22,"endTime":1652.9099999999999,"body":"I think the first thing to do, as we"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1645.22,"endTime":1652.9099999999999,"body":"said earlier, is to invite students,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1655.35,"endTime":1664.02,"body":"because otherwise you're giving them the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1655.35,"endTime":1664.02,"body":"responsibility of having to come forward. Whereas if"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1664.02,"endTime":1675.6299999999999,"body":"you invite them in, I think that is the opening and"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1664.02,"endTime":1675.6299999999999,"body":"it may not always work, but it's an opening. So, you"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1675.6299999999999,"endTime":1678.48,"body":"know, we are interested. Please let us know"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1680.61,"endTime":1688.85,"body":"and is having wording to say if you disclose, there"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1680.61,"endTime":1688.85,"body":"are things we can do to help. I think it's being"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1688.85,"endTime":1697.9199999999998,"body":"really open in the information available to students"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1688.85,"endTime":1697.9199999999998,"body":"to say that there is support open for students. And"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1697.9199999999998,"endTime":1704.47,"body":"again, if they if they can see what their support"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1697.9199999999998,"endTime":1704.47,"body":"might look like. And not only that, but they've"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1704.47,"endTime":1710.98,"body":"heard from my teams and my team attend open days,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1704.47,"endTime":1710.98,"body":"say that this is who we are, is what we can do to"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1711.37,"endTime":1718.86,"body":"help you. And you put a face to a person to talk to."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1711.37,"endTime":1718.86,"body":"I think that helps with trust as well. If you can go,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1718.86,"endTime":1727.74,"body":"okay, that's a person isn't, especially in the world"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1718.86,"endTime":1727.74,"body":"of online. But not everything is you know, the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1727.74,"endTime":1733.35,"body":"initial application process might be pretty faceless"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1727.74,"endTime":1733.35,"body":"to be able to see pictures on websites, to see"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1733.35,"endTime":1742.1599999999999,"body":"someone on open day, even if it's an online open day"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1733.35,"endTime":1742.1599999999999,"body":"or recorded, see the experience of other students."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1742.56,"endTime":1749.26,"body":"So we do have students who will sometimes come to us"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1742.56,"endTime":1749.26,"body":"and say, It's been such great experience. How can I"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1749.25,"endTime":1755.5,"body":"share my stories? So that other students know that"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1749.25,"endTime":1755.5,"body":"you are supported, a place to come and study, and"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1755.6499999999999,"endTime":1761.9499999999998,"body":"then I think to continue with the trust once they"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1755.6499999999999,"endTime":1761.9499999999998,"body":"have disclosed is find the time to give them the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1761.96,"endTime":1762.98,"body":"space to listen,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1764.9099999999999,"endTime":1773.51,"body":"providing those authentic actions to support them"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1764.9099999999999,"endTime":1773.51,"body":"being available, to reach out and get back in touch,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1773.51,"endTime":1775.3999999999999,"body":"to say that it hasn't quite helped."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1777.22,"endTime":1784.96,"body":"Or I'm not sure if everybody knows that because I've"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1777.22,"endTime":1784.96,"body":"noticed that in this class this happened, but that"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1785.23,"endTime":1791.5,"body":"didn't happen. Can you just double check for me? As"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1785.23,"endTime":1791.5,"body":"we know, advocating on their behalf with colleagues"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1791.5,"endTime":1798.1,"body":"as well just makes just to kind of check these"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1791.5,"endTime":1798.1,"body":"things are in place and and my team are brilliant at"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1798.1,"endTime":1804.85,"body":"just checking in with students all the time. Just"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1798.1,"endTime":1804.85,"body":"kind of a sometimes with emails, sometimes text"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1804.85,"endTime":1811.84,"body":"messages. We have discovered that different forms of"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1804.85,"endTime":1811.84,"body":"communication work very differently depending on"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1811.84,"endTime":1819.56,"body":"student. Some students may not respond to email."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1811.84,"endTime":1819.56,"body":"They drop them a text message. Even if the text"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1819.56,"endTime":1828.36,"body":"message is we send you an email, can you check right?"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1819.56,"endTime":1828.36,"body":"Or it's all WhatsApp Zoom calls. Some even have some"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1828.36,"endTime":1833.8799999999999,"body":"instances where in an in-person setting they might"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1828.36,"endTime":1833.8799999999999,"body":"come and see you. That I really want to talk. Can we"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1833.8799999999999,"endTime":1839.85,"body":"set up a zoom link I think is working with them to"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1833.8799999999999,"endTime":1839.85,"body":"how do they want to communicate with you? And I"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1839.85,"endTime":1847.55,"body":"think when they realise that you can accommodate"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1839.85,"endTime":1847.55,"body":"that as much as possible we have to be boundaried as,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1847.8899999999999,"endTime":1849.99,"body":"as well. I mean one of the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1851.85,"endTime":1858.07,"body":"things are working with adult learners if they're"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1851.85,"endTime":1858.07,"body":"working 9 to 5, when can they find the time to talk"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1858.07,"endTime":1863.6999999999998,"body":"to you? So is having the, the flex and the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1858.07,"endTime":1863.6999999999998,"body":"boundaries and saying maybe we can meet next week or"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1863.6999999999998,"endTime":1873.9299999999998,"body":"can we work around for we and my colleagues all try"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1863.6999999999998,"endTime":1873.9299999999998,"body":"and be available during residentials so that if"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1873.9299999999998,"endTime":1878.6999999999998,"body":"somebody wants to speak face to face, they can. And"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1873.9299999999998,"endTime":1878.6999999999998,"body":"we have a very good relationship with the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1878.6999999999998,"endTime":1887.01,"body":"university's Accessibility Resource Centre as well"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1878.6999999999998,"endTime":1887.01,"body":"and very supportive. I think trust is iterative. I"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1887.0,"endTime":1895.09,"body":"don't think you could assume it. I think it's a"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1887.0,"endTime":1895.09,"body":"mistake if you assume it. And I think I think I've"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1895.09,"endTime":1898.27,"body":"certainly been guilty of, but we tell them they"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1895.09,"endTime":1898.27,"body":"could tell us."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1898.9399999999998,"endTime":1904.27,"body":"All right. Right, right. But I think,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1898.9399999999998,"endTime":1904.27,"body":"you know it's I'm trying to imagine, you know, in a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1904.27,"endTime":1912.6,"body":"situation where I know I might need some type of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1904.27,"endTime":1912.6,"body":"support, someone is telling me they are supportive,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1913.26,"endTime":1917.1,"body":"but they're not showing me how they would be"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1913.26,"endTime":1917.1,"body":"supportive or how they've been supportive in the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1917.1,"endTime":1925.6999999999998,"body":"past. I would I would have a lot more confidence if,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1917.1,"endTime":1925.6999999999998,"body":"you know, if if the attitude is if you need help,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1925.6999999999998,"endTime":1932.96,"body":"we'll build something for you. We are willing, we're"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1925.6999999999998,"endTime":1932.96,"body":"eager. Right. It's a different thing to say that."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1932.96,"endTime":1936.77,"body":"And then also, here's some of the things we built"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1932.96,"endTime":1936.77,"body":"already, right? Like, here's some stuff that you can"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1936.77,"endTime":1941.87,"body":"already take advantage of. And I think for someone,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1936.77,"endTime":1941.87,"body":"especially who's hesitant to disclose, you want to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1941.87,"endTime":1946.9399999999998,"body":"know not only is this person going to receive me"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1941.87,"endTime":1946.9399999999998,"body":"well, but they're going to be in a position to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1946.9399999999998,"endTime":1952.22,"body":"actually help, Right? It's not just good intentions,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1946.9399999999998,"endTime":1952.22,"body":"but it's actually some proactive steps they've taken"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1952.22,"endTime":1954.1399999999999,"body":"to say, Yeah, we want you here."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1955.04,"endTime":1960.8899999999999,"body":"Yes. No, totally. And as you say,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1955.04,"endTime":1960.8899999999999,"body":"it's following through with those conversations and"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1960.8899999999999,"endTime":1965.78,"body":"also being reflective. If a student comes back and"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1960.8899999999999,"endTime":1965.78,"body":"says that has worked or sometimes a student might"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1965.78,"endTime":1969.86,"body":"come up and say, this has worked for me in a"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1965.78,"endTime":1969.86,"body":"previous institution and it might be something we"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1969.86,"endTime":1977.1799999999998,"body":"haven't tried before, or we don't usually do. And"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1969.86,"endTime":1977.1799999999998,"body":"it's well, let's think about that to see how we may"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1977.1799999999998,"endTime":1983.87,"body":"be able to implement. And we have. I should also"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1977.1799999999998,"endTime":1983.87,"body":"point out that the university library at Cambridge"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1983.8999999999999,"endTime":1989.54,"body":"is brilliant as well. And sometimes we do have"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1983.8999999999999,"endTime":1989.54,"body":"students who might need audio versions of things and"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1991.62,"endTime":1998.9099999999999,"body":"different formats and they're really good at"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1991.62,"endTime":1998.9099999999999,"body":"advising what they can now can do. And I've learned"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1998.9099999999999,"endTime":2005.54,"body":"a lot about, you know, dictation software helps as"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":1998.9099999999999,"endTime":2005.54,"body":"well. New students go what I use dictate on my"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2005.6599999999999,"endTime":2011.4499999999998,"body":"windows like, Oh great, okay. Or on your phone. I"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2005.6599999999999,"endTime":2011.4499999999998,"body":"think, you know, going back to inclusive practices,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2011.72,"endTime":2016.82,"body":"I find that really helpful. If I you know, there's"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2011.72,"endTime":2016.82,"body":"something in my mind I can just press record and my"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2016.82,"endTime":2024.31,"body":"voice memo is making more people aware of some of"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2016.82,"endTime":2024.31,"body":"these tools and strategies because as I said earlier,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2024.31,"endTime":2032.53,"body":"we have students from 19 to 82 who have very"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2024.31,"endTime":2032.53,"body":"different knowledge of all the various tools and"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2032.53,"endTime":2038.47,"body":"strategies which are out there. So we know where"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2032.53,"endTime":2038.47,"body":"we're all learning from one another and being"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2039.51,"endTime":2048.1,"body":"mentored up as well as, you know, down I think is"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2039.51,"endTime":2048.1,"body":"really important within our team as well as for my"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2048.1,"endTime":2048.7,"body":"students."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2049.55,"endTime":2054.59,"body":"Yeah, Well, you mentioned you're still"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2049.55,"endTime":2054.59,"body":"learning in this area. What are some questions that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2054.59,"endTime":2059.51,"body":"you are pursuing right now that you're curious about"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2054.59,"endTime":2059.51,"body":"or you're hoping to learn more about?"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2062.78,"endTime":2070.9900000000002,"body":"Well, one of the things I'm really"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2062.78,"endTime":2070.9900000000002,"body":"interested in working on is really thinking through"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2072.04,"endTime":2073.14,"body":"that learner to earner."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2074.66,"endTime":2074.93,"body":"Uh huh."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2076.36,"endTime":2083.44,"body":"And how we can support our learners."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2076.36,"endTime":2083.44,"body":"Take some of those tools and strategies"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2085.16,"endTime":2094.71,"body":"into other areas of their lives. But more than that,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2085.16,"endTime":2094.71,"body":"I'm aware. I think in the UK it's estimated a 15 to"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2094.71,"endTime":2105.09,"body":"20% of the population are neurodiverse, about half"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2094.71,"endTime":2105.09,"body":"of them are undiagnosed and of that half of them"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2105.09,"endTime":2109.74,"body":"might be unaware. You know, there's a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2105.09,"endTime":2109.74,"body":"because of the way there's lots of people that go, I"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2109.74,"endTime":2114.69,"body":"think I might be. And so finding the tools and"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2109.74,"endTime":2114.69,"body":"strategies, but if you just think about that number,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2114.96,"endTime":2118.99,"body":"then come out. What am I doing for my colleagues who"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2114.96,"endTime":2118.99,"body":"might be"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2121.24,"endTime":2128.52,"body":"neurodiverse? And I don't want to have to wait for"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2121.24,"endTime":2128.52,"body":"them to disclose to me."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2130.8199999999997,"endTime":2137.48,"body":"I want to be proactive in thinking through what are"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2130.8199999999997,"endTime":2137.48,"body":"some of the strategies and tools we can implement in"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2137.48,"endTime":2141.81,"body":"the workplace to support our earners,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2144.43,"endTime":2152.95,"body":"because we are here educating, supporting our"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2144.43,"endTime":2152.95,"body":"students, we need to ensure that our colleagues have"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2152.95,"endTime":2157.72,"body":"got the support that they need in order to do that"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2152.95,"endTime":2157.72,"body":"as well. So I'm really interested in that"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2157.72,"endTime":2163.84,"body":"intersection between the learner and the earner. And"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2157.72,"endTime":2163.84,"body":"it's not just about the earner either. I mentioned a"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2163.84,"endTime":2172.95,"body":"book earlier by Kathleen Nadeau, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2163.84,"endTime":2172.95,"body":"pronounced, and that talks even about ADHD once"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2172.95,"endTime":2182.8199999999997,"body":"you're retired. And we have, you know, students up"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2172.95,"endTime":2182.8199999999997,"body":"until they're 82. So I think it's what can we learn"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2182.8199999999997,"endTime":2189.94,"body":"from that learning environment that can really help"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2182.8199999999997,"endTime":2189.94,"body":"us as individuals thrive, not just as learners? I"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2190.0499999999997,"endTime":2195.36,"body":"think, you know, great that we want to do everything"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2190.0499999999997,"endTime":2195.36,"body":"we can to support all of our learners when they're"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2195.36,"endTime":2196.02,"body":"with us."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2199.22,"endTime":2205.06,"body":"But I'd like to think that we're giving them some"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2199.22,"endTime":2205.06,"body":"tools and strategies so when they leave whilst the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2205.06,"endTime":2207.25,"body":"official relationship is ended with us,"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2209.04,"endTime":2212.85,"body":"we're also helping them to thrive afterwards as well."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2209.04,"endTime":2212.85,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2213.43,"endTime":2213.71,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2215.48,"endTime":2220.37,"body":"Thank you, Holly, for taking this time. This has"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2215.48,"endTime":2220.37,"body":"been really delightful. You've given me lots to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2220.37,"endTime":2224.54,"body":"think about. I think you've given our audience a lot"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2220.37,"endTime":2224.54,"body":"to think about. So yes. Thank you. Thank you for"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2224.54,"endTime":2225.2,"body":"sharing today."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2225.5699999999997,"endTime":2229.61,"body":"That's kind Just shout out to the"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2225.5699999999997,"endTime":2229.61,"body":"audience. I'm not an expert. I have more questions"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2229.61,"endTime":2235.4,"body":"than I have answers. So if anybody wants to share"},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2229.61,"endTime":2235.4,"body":"all of their good ideas with me, please let me know."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2237.3199999999997,"endTime":2238.5499999999997,"body":"All right. Thank you so much, Holly."},{"speaker":"Holly Tilbrook","startTime":2238.94,"endTime":2240.77,"body":"Thanks, Derek. Have a nice evening."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2246.29,"endTime":2250.5499999999997,"body":"That was Holly Tilbrook, deputy"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2246.29,"endTime":2250.5499999999997,"body":"director of the academic centres at the Institute of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2250.5499999999997,"endTime":2255.89,"body":"Continuing Education at the University of Cambridge."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2250.5499999999997,"endTime":2255.89,"body":"Thanks so much to Holly for taking the time to talk"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2255.89,"endTime":2261.95,"body":"with me and for sharing her exploration of this"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2255.89,"endTime":2261.95,"body":"topic with my podcast listeners. As you can hear"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2261.95,"endTime":2267.5299999999997,"body":"there at the end of the interview, Holly welcomes"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2261.95,"endTime":2267.5299999999997,"body":"ideas and information from you. You can connect with"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2267.5299999999997,"endTime":2272.5099999999998,"body":"her on LinkedIn. See the show notes for a link or"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2267.5299999999997,"endTime":2272.5099999999998,"body":"reach out to her through me. There's a link in the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2272.5099999999998,"endTime":2279.11,"body":"show notes that will let you send me a text message,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2272.5099999999998,"endTime":2279.11,"body":"or you can email me at derek@derekbruff. org. During"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2279.11,"endTime":2284.63,"body":"our conversation, Holly and I had a sidebar about"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2279.11,"endTime":2284.63,"body":"effective leadership in academic environments where"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2284.63,"endTime":2290.37,"body":"she framed her leadership as, quote, orchestrating,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2284.63,"endTime":2290.37,"body":"not directing. If you'd like to hear that part of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2290.37,"endTime":2294.96,"body":"our conversation, hop over to the intentional"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2290.37,"endTime":2294.96,"body":"teaching Patreon, where I often post bonus clips for"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2294.97,"endTime":2299.5,"body":"my podcast episodes. Intentional teaching is"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2294.97,"endTime":2299.5,"body":"sponsored by UPCEA, the online and professional"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2299.5,"endTime":2299.74,"body":"education association."}]}